Borrowed Bones

The Hatfield and McCoy Feud

• Sarah • Episode 1

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Well, hello, everyone. Hello. Actually, hello to no one. This is our first ever recording of our podcast, Borrowed Bones. My name is Sarah. I'm Cole. And this is a podcast about fucked up families and familial relationships. Whether you are related by blood or by bond, we can all agree that families bring us up and tear us down. 

I'm here to dust off those closeted skeletons and take a closer look at what we hide away. All right. 

so, for our first ever Borrowed Bones podcast about families, I had to start with a classic. I had to start with something that I grew up listening to, hearing about. I am from the South. even though this isn't quite Southern, it's kind of its own little region. two families. 

What do you think I'm talking about? The most famous feud in American history, perhaps? The Hatfields and [00:01:00] McCoys. I'm assuming everyone, or most people, have heard about that. And if you haven't, today's your lucky day. We are going to talk about all of the myths, theories, legends, stories, and everything in between. 

Because there's a lot of them. Alright, let's get into it. The famous Hatfield and McCoy feud. If we can even really call it that. Some sources say it wasn't really a few, just kind of a lingering Disdain. Those closest to the feud sort of downplayed it and the legend of it all sprang up once reporters kind of caught wind ten years into the mix. 

Alright, pop quiz. Shoot. No pun intended. What side did the McCoys live on? Side of what? Fair. The Kentucky or the West Virginia side. which one did you ask? McCoys. I'm going to go with, they were on the Kentucky side. Kentucky side. [00:02:00] Yes. For our first episode, I had to start with a classic. 

Ooh. Oldie but a goodie? You bet. I bet you know about this. You are from the North, I'm from the South, so I'm assuming you know about this. It's a pretty, mm, infamous. People don't really use the word famous, but they use the most infamous family feud in American history. Oh, I bet I know what it is, then. 

Should I guess? Yeah. Hatfields and McCoys? Ding, ding, ding! The famous Hatfield and McCoy feud. I'm not even sure if we can actually call it a feud, though. 

What else would you call it? I don't know. An armed conflict? Yeah, I guess, but over years and years, it kind of is a slow burn. So, those closest to the feud kind of downplayed it a little bit, and after a few years, after about ten years of it all happening, that's when the legend of it all kind of sprang up. 

Ten years seems like a long family feud in [00:03:00] general. Yeah, there were some pauses though. We'll get into it. So first, the Hatfields and McCoys. They lived on either side of the Tug River. And that split between Kentucky and West Virginia. Okay. Civil War, mid to late 1800s. 

Civil War is actually where we start with this story. And for those of you that might not know, the Civil War ended in 1865. And West Virginia was created as a new state during the Civil War. Correct, yeah. One of two, what's the other state that was created? Nevada. What? 

It became a state during the Civil War. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yes, well, that's my history degree at work. Alright, moving on. Anyway. Alright, so the McCoys lived on the Kentucky side of the river. Okay, and the Hatfields lived on the West Virginia side of the river. All righty. They were very close though. [00:04:00] Just a river That's all that was separating them. 

Neighbors essentially of that era. Yes, especially living in Appalachia the Appalachian area of America, didn't really get hit the same way, didn't really have the same effect during the Civil War the way that other places did, especially, areas that were for the slave economics, for lack of a better term. 

Because Kentucky was a slave state, but stayed loyal to the Union and never seceded. West Virginia, also created by the Union, separating it from Virginia, which obviously was a confederate state. Yes, so we're seeing how already things are probably pretty tense all over. Maybe not between the families just yet, but the economy, the culture, society, everything around these people, is changing right now. 

And they kind of are just dealing with that. Do we know what, either families Sympathies lied with? [00:05:00] Union or Confederate? It's a mix. Alright, let me get into it. So, the first question that everyone typically has is How did it start? Who started it? And who's to blame? 

Need two sides to have a feud. And like we were just speaking about, this all starts during the Civil War. in 1865, near the end of the Civil War, Ossa Harmon McCoy, he came home due to an injury. Now, Ossa Harmon McCoy, he fought for the Union. He was the only one, I believe. I did not see anyone else on either side of the families that fought for the union. 

Now, when Asa came home, I'm going to call him Harman, because I'm really not sure if I'm pronouncing Asa correctly. Yeah, it's one of those old school names so, a lot of places you'll see him referred to as Harman, Asa Harman. I'm going to go ahead and just keep referring to him as Harman. I'm going to try my best anyway. 

when Harman came home, Anderson Anse Hatfield, who went by Devil Anse Hatfield, he is the patriarch of the [00:06:00] Hatfield family. How'd he get a name like Devil? We'll get into that. It's a part of his story. Scintillating. He fought for the Confederate States of America in the Civil War, so for the South. Oh. 

And he believed that Harmon was responsible, or he was at least with the group of people that killed a friend of Devalance's during war, though. Oh. Right. Mm. Well, that's what war is. All is fair. Maybe you should have seceded. Maybe you shouldn't have been a traitor. 

Maybe a controversial hot take, especially today, but, the Confederates were the bad guys in the Civil War. We can Pretty much agree with that, right? I'll agree. Okay. I think we all should be able to agree that slavery is bad. We yeah, let's move on. But anyway, at the time, like I said, Appalachia in general, a lot of those people really did think that they were fighting someone else's war. 

They weren't slave owners. So I'm not, we're not singling anyone out. We're just saying. Okay. Yeah. Not that I know anyway. I did not see any of that. [00:07:00] So, Devil Ants, upon learning that Harmon was home, he put out a warning, and that resulted in Harmon going into hiding. 

He was hiding in a cave when he was found, And the story goes that Devilance's uncle, James, who goes by Jim, Vance, was the one who shot and killed Harmon. Ah. Jim Vance. 

Jim Vance. Jim Vance. Put him in the fridge. Vance Refrigeration. That's an office reference for anyone who knows that. Vance. Vance Refrigeration. All right, so this first McCoy on ice, they should put that in a slogan. And then this, of course, it did create some tension, but years ago by yeah, murder typically creates a little bit of tension between families. 

So again, 1865, Harmon McCoy is killed by Jim Vance, who is devil Lance's uncle. And people are pretty sure that devil Lance knew or set him to it. Now. Before we go any further, I kind of want to [00:08:00] talk about the families and get an idea of how they're set up. Yeah, give me the structures of these families. 

You gave me, Devil Lance is the patriarch of the Hatfields. So who's his, analogy or his analogous partner on the McCoy side of this? Who's the head of that family? So the McCoy patriarch is Randolph, and this is where I'm going to give you all the nicknames for everyone, too. We have Randolph, who goes by Randall. 

Which is what I'll be using. Okay. And Oll Rannell. Oll Rannell? R A N L. Oh, interesting. It's fine. Okay. So I call him Randall, and Randy McCoy. Let's call him Randy. Randy. I'm gonna stick with Randall, you do whatever you want. I'm gonna call him Randy. Keep adding nicknames, that's fine. They've got enough, I mean, what's a few more gonna hurt? 

Why not? So, Randall was married to Sarah, but she went by Sally. Why? [00:09:00] I'm not sure. I don't go by Sally. Love when names are just other names with the same amount of syllables. Yeah. Like what is, what is the point of that? Maybe you should call me Sally. Yeah, not, don't like it. No. ? No. Alright. So Sarah and Randall. 

Sally. I don't know it's going to interchange 'cause I like my name better than Sally, but she did go by Sally. In all fairness, Randall and Sally are first cousins. As was the norm of the time. And that kind of comes back, but we'll see a little bit. And then they had It comes back like a recessive trait. 

Yes. And they had 16 children together. I'm gonna rattle them off kind of quickly here, in order of oldest to youngest. those kids were their own cousin. Yes. Right? Once removed, is that how that works? I don't know the removal process of cousins. But I don't think any removing is happening in this family. I think they're only adding Yeah, it's like I looked at the family [00:10:00] tree and it kind of circled. 

Like a bush? Yeah, I don't think a family tree should look like a bush. But anyway, that was back in the day. They were isolated. I'm not judging. It is what it is. So they had 16 children. The oldest of the McCoy children was Josephine. 

And then we have James, and then Floyd, Tolbert, Lilburn, Samuel, and then they had number seven, which was just Daughter, because she didn't make it past infancy. And then they have Alaphare, and then Rosanna, Calvin, Farmer, with a P H. 

Oh. Fancy. Randolph Jr., William. Trinvilla. Wait a minute, he named like, kid like, 13? Junior? Close, kid 12. Oh, wow, I wasn't even keeping track, but He just ran out of names? Yep. That's weird to take that long to get a junior. Usually it's the first one, right? He thought, ah, we're running out of names, I'll finally put my name. 

And then he had more. Well, they, no birth control back then, man. [00:11:00] And then number 15's Adelaide, number 16 is Fanny. The names that you all need to bear in mind are Tolbert, or Tolbear. Tolbear. Farmer, Randolph Jr., Rosanna, Alifare, and Calvin. And then, going to the Hatfield side, like I said, Devil Ants on top. 

We have Devil Ants. Anderson Devil Ants Hatfield. And he married Levisi. And they got married just before the Civil War. And together, they had 13 children. Their oldest was Johnson, who went by Johnsy. 

William Anderson, who went by Cap. Robert Lee, classic. Nancy, Elliot, Mary, Elizabeth, Elias. Detroit. Detroit? Yeah. French pronunciations. He went by Troy. Oh. Yeah. I don't know how they got that name, but that's pretty cool because represent Michigan. What up? And then Joseph, Rosa Da Lee. 

[00:12:00] Emmanuel Willis. And, actually, Emanuel Wills, and then Tennyson, who went by Tennis. Okay. I like these names. Anyway, the names that you need to pay attention to in that one are Johnsy, Cap, and That's really it. Yeah, just those two. And then Jim Vance, of course, and Devilance, and all that. Other names and other players will come as well. 

So, Jim Vance Is Devil an's uncle. Uncle. So he's a great uncle to the kids. Okay. He's got a different last name. He's married in, obviously. Okay, gotcha. Yeah. All right. He married into the Hatfield family. Okay. So we got 13 kids on one side, on the Hatfield side and 16 on the McCoys. Yes. All right. So we're starting strong. 

so just to recap, we have Harmon McCoy, who was murdered by Jim Vance due to the Civil War issues in 1865, and then nothing for a while. 

Okay. Thirteen years to be exact. This is where one of those [00:13:00] theories are where Did it start there or did it start here? What I'm about to talk about. So we, people kind of debate. Did it start with the murder of Harmon McCoy or did it start with what I'm about to talk about 13 years later? 

Is there a Porcine figure involved? Yep. A couple. Or none. We'll see. Exactly. So 13 years later, 1878 is where we're at right now. A lot happened in that year. There's a hog trial. Ah. Mm hmm. Now, there's quite a few versions of this hog trial, and I'm gonna tell you the most widely known one, and then I'm gonna Break it down and this is the lay like as a more or less outsider to this who doesn't know a whole lot about it This is the thing that I first I would say the average person probably if you only know anything about the few the first thing You hear is oh it started over a pig, right? 

Yeah, that's the myth of the folklore that everyone's told. I [00:14:00] guess we'll get into how accurate that is or what the kernel of that rumor is. this took a lot of my research, a lot of my time. I did not expect to open this can of worms. I was very surprised to find how many different iterations there are of this trial. 

Okay, so there is a court case. Maybe. All right. Okay, let's get into it. So in 1878, Randall McCoy, remember the Patriarch? Yes, Randy. Old Randy. He accused Floyd Hatfield. He's a cousin to the Hatfields. He doesn't really matter, but this is what's happening. He's not one of the children. Nope. He's just a relative because everyone's kind of related in these general areas. 

They're Everyone's related to everyone. There's intermarrying. There's all that happening. but yes, so Floyd Hatfield is cousin of the Hatfields, and Randall McCoy accused Floyd of stealing his hog. Pig rustling. Not for pig rustling. They couldn't waste it that [00:15:00] way. It's rustling. You rustle livestock. 

Yeah, you gotta like differentiate, otherwise they sound too similar. Case in point, exactly. So we accused him of being a pig rustler. Just one pig is this story right here. So, hogs at the time were thought to be, like, a big deal. They helped families make it through the winter, and there were quite a few hog trials in the court documents around that time from that area. 

It's like stealing someone's livelihood for the winter. I mean, a good pig that you fatten up for a couple years. The goal to feed your family for a few seasons, smoked meat and whatnot, and it's suddenly gone. What are you gonna do? Exactly, that feeds your family for at least a few days. If not more, I'm not really sure. 

They get really big. But strangely, there were not any court documents of this hog trial. Not this one in particular. Now remember, they do live in a more remote area. So a lot of things were kind of just handled officially, but unofficially. Court records back [00:16:00] then, I know from elsewhere in the country, were not The best. 

Yeah. And even if court records were taken back in 1878, they could be lost. I mean, obviously it's all physical paper at the time. Yeah, you never know. Yeah. Fires happen, things get moved. Mm hmm. Yeah, so all of this is by word of mouth. Okay, so if I'm wrong, I'm not wrong. 

So it's an oral tradition Yes most of the Hatfield and McCoy stuff is Now the story goes that hundreds of people came from all around to see this trial and be a part of the action The local judge was a member of the Hatfield family. He was the Justice of the Peace. I don't know if that's judge and Justice of the Peace at the same thing. 

Can you explain that a little bit? From what I know from other areas of the country at this time, Justice of the Peace, was kind of like they had, they could issue warrants, they could appoint constables with the rest of powers, a judge obviously was more, had more [00:17:00] outlined. 

So what's the difference between, justice of the peace and a judge? I couldn't really figure out if the Hatfield was a judge or justice of the peace. They kind of seem synonymous or just the piece I think is a little bit more nebulous of a term back then. It seemed to me a judge. you know, presided over trials in district and circuit courts, just so the peace could deputize people, could issue arrest warrants. 

but they were typically used in small rural areas. But kind of acting as the judge though. Okay. Yeah. I could see. One person could do both roles if necessary if needed. So We have the just of the piece slash judge That is a Hatfield and the trial had six Hatfields on one side of the jury and six McCoys on the other side of the jury Okay, so this wasn't randomly selected, or was just everyone in the community just, you are either one or the other? 

I mean, [00:18:00] that's kind of the case, but it wasn't randomly selected, per the story. they wanted to make it fair in order to have people from both sides of the family in there Yeah, I think more fair being it 12 people who aren't part of either I'm not sure. I can't find 12 people who don't have opinion on this I'm really not sure but that's how the story goes that the jury was set up So Selkirk McCoy and Bill Staten Okay, those sound familiar to you at all Probably not. 

McCoy, because it's a McCoy, but Staten, that's a new name. Selkirk was a juror on the McCoy side, and he, was voting in favor for the Hatfish. He ended up dividing the families even further. He defected. Yeah, Selkirk lived on the West Virginia side with the Hatfields, and he worked for Devilance in his timber business. 

So he went more for geography and livelihood than blood. Maybe he's a bit of a free thinker. [00:19:00] Wild. And then we have Bill Staten, who gave a key testimony that ended up swaying the votes in favor of the Hatfields as well. Now Bill Staten is family to both sides. 

Alright. If it's McCoy. I'm not sure. Okay. So he's a witness at this possible trial. Yes. And he testifies. He says that he saw Floyd Hatfield make the notch on the hog's ear. Oh, William, what's this notch on the hog's ear? 

What's going on here? That's the like a telltale kind of brand. Yeah. So it's instead of branding the pig or the livestock, they would notch the ears and there are certain types of notches that they would do. Yeah. And so Bill Staten was saying, I saw Floyd Hatfield. Do the notches. 

So once it was understood or thought that Staten had seen Floyd Hatfield do the notches on the hog, the [00:20:00] matter was settled and it favored the Hatfields and McCoys left the courtroom disgruntled and angry. Okay. Now that's the story that everyone knows. Yeah. The McCoys lost, they're mad and the feud goes on. 

Yep. Okay. so The 13 ish years in between an unsolved, as far as we know, an officially unsolved murder and the possible hog theft, nothing really happened, as far as we know, in this feud. With the possi with the murder, no. Okay, So the McCoy's get more riled up over a hog theft than over a murder of one of their own According to the story. 

Okay. Yes. So like you killed my brother, you know, I'll let that slide for a decade But you stole my pig and we're gonna have words. Well, absolutely. Okay. Well, I mean remember I mean maybe he didn't like his brother I mean his brother went to the North fought for the North so maybe he That's what I was just thinking Already was like Maybe he was on Anse's side in that sense. 

[00:21:00] Not like endorsing it, but you know, not shedding too many tears over it either. Yeah, I'm not really sure. Like you said, nothing really came of it. It was kind of at the time in our country when people were coming back from the Civil War and they weren't really getting along. Like, you don't just get along right away. 

You know, you have these differences, these moral issues, and you still are kind of fighting. I mean, Devil Anse Devil ance himself is said to have deserted. Oh, that really is. So he is a double trader kind of, but he also is more of a capitalist than anything. He's like, I have shit to do. 

What's, the source of what, what do these two families do for their livelihoods? Are they just farmers? You mentioned? some lumber that, the Hatfields had. So the Hatfields are in the timber industry. Okay. Which is perfect for the area. Yeah. And they do all the timber, and they end up being pretty successful in that sense. 

They do well. The Hatfields actually came from the Mayflower. Oh, okay. Like, they're straight up American. Yeah. Yeah, old school American. The McCoys kind of just [00:22:00] struggled along. They farmed, they had some timber. They weren't really overly successful in anything, though. more successful, more affluent, if you're gonna You use such a term. 

They're the more well to do of the two families. Yes. No question. Okay, and the timber business does come back into play So I'm glad you asked. Okay, so the general squabbling and fighting back to the hog trial after everything was settled Kind of happened and then two years go by and they're still just little squabbles little arguments little skirmishes Nothing too serious though, but things are just kind of boiling a little bit. 

So that brings us to 1880 Yes. Okay. So there are two McCoys. They are nephews of Randall McCoy. Okay. They are not his kids. They are Sam and Paris McCoy. Yeah. Don't these people have fun names? This is a boy. Nice. Yeah. I like it. How progressive. Yeah. Not Paris like from Gilmore Girls. 

They could have used her, I think. Who? [00:23:00] Paris from the Gilmore Girls. You've heard her when I've had them on. Okay. Anyway, Sam and Paris McCoy, they saw Bill Staten in the woods and they shot and killed him. Just. Okay. Two years later. That's the story that they gave. They said, well, self defense. Oh, well, yeah. 

But the only three people were there, so we're not sure. Sam, Sam ended up fleeing for about two years and Paris was apprehended soon after the killing. Then they, once Sam was captured or found or discovered, I don't know how he came back. Back in custody somehow. Yeah, back in custody. They were both tried and found not guilty on the grounds of self defense. 

Yeah, well. I mean. If you as a defendant assert that, it's kind of, to this day, it's on the prosecution to prove you didn't defend yourself, and if there's no witness to say, you know, that they stalked him and deliberately shot him down, and do we have any info on this? Staten's reputation? Was he [00:24:00] prone to violence? 

Would it be believable that he would assault them or put them in a position that they would have to defend themselves? It's believable that all three of these gentlemen would have murdered or started or done So it's kind of one of those things where it's like, we're not We don't want to feed into the feud, we just kind of want to subdue it. 

Okay. So charging them might have been a little too risky. and if we do assume that the murder of the McCoy brother in 1865 Was not obviously looked favor to favor and this seems to make that there's a the body count now is equal to The Hatfields killed a McCoy in 1865, now the McCoys have killed one of theirs. 

So, maybe tit for tat, they can let sleeping dogs or pigs lie. True. But obviously that doesn't happen, otherwise we wouldn't be Talking about this. Exactly. So, the two years after the Hog [00:25:00] Trial, the killing of Bill Staten, all of that is kind of what most people will say started the feud. Like, really lit a fire under it. 

That's when the things start happening much more rapidly. I would like to break down the Hog Trial, though, before we get further into the story, just so we can see how everything got so drummed up, and how all of this, I don't know, kind of telephone game, sort of, is where we're at today. Spill the bacon. 

Yeah. 

Alright, so I did quite a bit of digging. I was looking for, those primary sources, those first hand accounts. Rooting around like a hog for a truffle. I guess so. I'll stop. It's okay. 

I'm just envisioning myself as a pig looking for books in the dirt. I don't know. That's what. Anyway, I was looking for some primary resources, or sources, and I was trying to put my [00:26:00] history degree to some use since I have it and I'm paying for it. Fuck it. Let's use it. So in my search for these, I discovered that the hog trial just wasn't really that sensational. 

It wasn't really the biggest deal, and what happened was a few years later, we're going to fast forward just a little bit before we go back, in 1888, so ten years later after the Hogg trial. That's when we have our first reporter on the scene to talk about it. So by then It's been ten years. So the feud's gotten some, I'm assuming this reporter More has happened. 

from out of the area. Yes. From a big New York, Chicago, somewhere like that, right? So, it's already got I think just Kentucky, but a bigger city. Yeah. But out of the area. Out of the area. It's the, the reputation of this feud has Spread in the region. Okay. And they talk about, and this is what they end up talking about. 

They're just quick little snippets to see how this sort of story turns into a legend. So the first reporter [00:27:00] on the scene, again, 10 years later in 1888, his name is John Spears. He came to the area and he was asking, they called it the private war. He was asking about the private war. That seems to have taken place over the course of the last 10 years. 

Sounds more polite than Blood Feud. Yeah, I know. We've really just drummed it up, like I said, quite a bit. It's very, oh, the private little war. The mutually assured destruction that was going on. John Spears, he spoke with Randall McCoy, the patriarch, who was still around at the time. 

Yeah, old Randy. And he also spoke with Perry Kline. That's a name that will come back. Perry Kline. He's related to the McCoys. He's a lawyer. Oh, he's got a loyally name. Yeah, he does. Esquire. Esquire. And so Spears spoke to only members of the McCoy family and only McCoy supporters. Now, is that because, did he try to reach out to the Hatfields and they weren't interested? 

Or do we not know? Was he already We don't know and it doesn't seem like he really [00:28:00] leaned one way or the other. I don't know if it's just Lazy reporting because back then people really did just get the bare minimum and run. So I really don't think he meant to have an angle or anything on it. I think he just went down checked it out Talk to some people thought it was enough. 

There are some people that come into play that I think have angles though Okay, so John Spears only spoke to McCoy family members and of course that was a pretty one sided story, but still he spoke directly to the people that were involved and he has according to Spears Randall McCoy is quoted as saying It started with, quote, two, two long nosed, razor backed, elm peeler hogs. 

Two. Not one, two. And he even describes the hogs. So he seems to remember them pretty well. And then continuing to say that Floyd Hatfield is the one that stole his hogs. Okay. So Randall is saying that this happened. So that's why I [00:29:00] believe it happened. And he's not mentioning the murder of his brother. 

He's not. A decade beforehand. No. So even by his account, the thing he's most pissed off about is not his brother's murder. He didn't mention it. Pigs. Yeah. His razorbacks being stolen. Yep. Okay, well. And they said that the justice of the peace was Matt Hatfield at the time who presided over the case. 

Conflict of interest inherently. Mm hmm. But there probably wasn't a lot of other judges. There just weren't any other choices. Yeah. In all honesty. You can't really recuse yourself back then. the name of which Hatfield presided over the hog trial changes. Oh. Yeah. 

Because the Hatfields end up having more of a status. His status grows more as time goes on. And so I think they put certain Hatfield names in where others were to kind of bolster up Certain aspects of the feud that might have looked favorably on a Hatfield and they may have taken some names out of areas that don't look so favorably on [00:30:00] Hatfields. 

They messed with the records. Yeah, they messed with the records. It's not really the biggest deal, but this adds to why there's so many different iterations of this and different stories. So Matt Hatfield, I believe, was the one who actually presided over the case. And Randall and Randall's family, they told Spears that the two hogs were in the courtroom at the time of the trial. 

Wait a minute, so these pigs were still alive? They weren't butchered? Yeah, according to Randall and his family, ten years later. But the story we all hear, there aren't pigs in the courtroom. And there's not two, there's one. And Randall McCoy and family, ten years later, are saying two pigs, two hogs. 

So the earliest Confirmed primary source that we have is actually 10 years after the alleged trial itself. And, from the pig owner's alleged pig owner's mouth. 

Now, Floyd [00:31:00] had witnesses stating that they were Floyd's hogs. Randall remembers this. Yeah. And he says so. We know who those witnesses were. We just talked about them and Randall did not have any witnesses, so he feels that's why he ultimately lost and had to pay the court fees. Okay. So, he lost the trial, had to pay the court fees because he didn't have any witnesses. 

Now, Randall did mention the killing of Bill Staten, that one witness, and how Staten testified against them. Yeah, Staten's the one who said that the hog was not McCoy's. Because they had the distinct ear notch. Yes, and that's all that he really said about it. He was kind of just like, what up? Yep, 

Now a few weeks or about a few months later after Spears was there, another reporter came on to the scene. Theron C. Crawford, also known as T. C. Crawford. 

Now he spoke to both sides of the feud, both families. And Crawford, he got the story of how Asa Harmon [00:32:00] McCoy was killed. what was he told? By whom? I'm not sure, quite honestly. I don't know who told him. I know that he writes about it, though. 

Oh, okay. Yes. That's why I know he knows about it. Spears just never wrote on that, and he just probably didn't really know. T. C. Crawford just wrote that the murder did happen. I don't think he named anyone in it. He just said, like, Hatfields, you know, might have been the reason for it. Because all of that was still alleged at the time. 

You're not fully accusing anyone of anything. I am today. I don't care. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jim Vance killed Harmon McCoy. I said it, TC Crawford talks about Harmon McCoy, but doesn't mention the hog trial. Oh See, it's weird different newspaper. Yeah, and they spoke to primary source. 

Yeah, and they both The sources give two different origins of the feud, so to speak. Yeah. And they'll omit crucial elements. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very strange. So then there's a few other [00:33:00] writers that come in, but those were the two reporters that spoke directly to the primary sources. 

They don't even visit the area. One of them starts writing, I think, a year later or so, and adds all these other things, adds dialogue, adds storyline. And it's just not the same. And then someone else comes in and adds more to that. And then someone else comes in 50 years later, adds more to that. 

And then it becomes a big thing. Yes. Become their own organisms. So, I just wanted everyone to know what was happening from the actual primary sources. They didn't really say much. 

Now we know all the ins and outs of the hog trial, or maybe not, but we know how the story got bigger and bigger. Yeah. We do know a hog trial happened. It had to have. There had to be Some acorn for that oak to grow out of. so the next thing that ends up happening after the hog trial, just, in 1880 at this point, because the hog trial was 78, two years later Bill Staten was murdered. 

Staten's killed, and then a couple [00:34:00] years the two killers are acquitted. Oh yeah, the two killers are acquitted. Yes. And now we're going to go ahead and talk about this lovely forbidden romance. Can't have a family feud with that little Romeo and Juliet. At least they're breaking out of their respective families. 

I'm assuming. Trying, yes. So I don't know if anyone out there has seen this mini series. About the Hatfields and McCoys with, who's in it again? Kevin Costner and, Bill Paxton. R. I. P. that was the History Channel that did that, right? I believe so. 2012, I think, came out. 

It was a while ago. Yeah. but I loved it. We recently re watched it to see everything. And this miniseries drums up this forbidden romance so much. Yeah. It's fantastic. I love it, but it's unfortunately just not the case. 

So, Forbidden Romance. By all actual accounts, the whirlwind romance was not all it [00:35:00] was cracked up to be. Who are the parties? It is John C. Hatfield. John C. The oldest of the Hatfield children. And it is Rosanna McCoy, one of the McCoy girls. Yes, now we're in the direct line here. So the boys from the well to do family, and the girls from the less well to do. 

Yes. Okay, so I make sure I understand the power dynamics here. and for this one, I had to search again for primary sources because of that mini series. I was getting a lot of facts from that. And I was trying to kind of wade my way around that. Again, history degree coming to good use. I did find a blog, and I think this blog is reputable. 

I'll put all of my sources in the show notes and everything, but she's called Appalachian Lady. And she is a direct descendant of Devil Ants Hatfield. So I think it has some legs. It's worth listening to, you know, reading about. And she said in her blog that she was raised listening to stories from her elders. 

Yeah, so according to the Appalachian Lady, and with some other accounts I found, John [00:36:00] C., according to the Appalachian Lady, Johnson was viewed as a lover. Not a fighter and at this time, that was a polite way of saying that he was a fuck boy. 

He's a Don Juan, a Casanova, a Lothario. A Coxman. he enjoyed chasing the ladies. He often had a few and was juggling a few at once, typically. Ladies man. Rosanna, on the other hand, she was a good girl, she was very sheltered, and she just didn't really know the way of the world, especially when it came to matters of love. 

So the story goes that it was election day, 1880. Now again, Bill Staten's death, murder, was in 1880. Okay. So this is shortly after, maybe just a few months, I believe, after Bill Staten's death. So tensions are kind of there. So, election day, the polls were on the Kentucky side, and election day was a big deal, everyone became a part of it. 

They were very fun for everyone, [00:37:00] a big social gathering back then. They had shooting competitions, Best Recipe contests. It's a little festival, or like county fair. Yeah, people are drinking, there's trade moonshine. Yeah, beer kegs. There's a lot going on, yeah. It's a festival. And this is where John C. 

and Rosanna first locked eyes. In the beer tent. Can you imagine a beer tent back then? They probably look like they do today, actually. Yeah, it's a tent. Probably very similar. It's a tent with beer. Ah, they saw each other and it was love at first sight. For her anyway. Yeah, they went into the woods away from the election day festivities They kind of broke away and as young lovers do they lost track of time. 

They lost track of time and they didn't come back from the woods until everything was close. The polling was closed Everyone was gone. How far away did they go? I feel like What? They're just in the woods. They're in the woods. Doing what lovers do, I [00:38:00] guess. And I don't know. Alright. 

I don't know how good Rosanna was, but she seemed to know what she was doing. So anyway, Rosanna was supposed to go back home with her brothers. Obviously that did not happen. Her brothers ended up returning home without her. And Randall McCoy, Randy, he was pissed. He said, go back and get her. 

What the hell? Why don't you have your sister? Just left her out in the fucking woods. So the brothers go back and they still can't find her there. They're gone. So what happened was. John C. ended up taking Rosanna back to his house. And she stayed the night in his sister's bedroom. 

Which is actually pretty nice. Would, Devil Lance think of that? Was he the knower? They allowed it. Yeah, yeah. They allowed it. Okay. And they just, they're not gonna leave this girl out in the woods. Yeah. So, Rosanna's in West Virginia now, at the Hatfield house. 

And the McCoys don't know where she is. When Randall discovered where she had been all night, he was furious. Rosanna and Johnsy then said that they wanted to get married. After one night? [00:39:00] This is how the story goes, man. Alright. Exactly. Well, I mean, that happened back then a lot. Yeah, you know, this, I saw you, let's get married, whatever. 

Yeah. We're all gonna die by 40 in here. According to the Appalachian Ladies blog, she said that Johnsy According to her story, she heard never intended to marry Rosanna, but I think it was talked about. I do. You probably let her think you would. I think so. I think that's what was happening. So, Randall And he's older. 

Yes. And obviously more well to do, so. Yeah. He can get away with it. Yeah. He's got more world knowledge. Randall McCoy, of course, did not allow it. He said, absolutely no fucking way. Yeah. What the hell are you thinking? In fact, I disown you for all of this. You're done. You're out. Goodbye, bitch. He disowned her? 

Yup. Goodbye. Huh. Done. I don't think they ever saw each other again. So, he said, I'm done with her, I don't want her around anymore, whatever. 

So, Rosanna was allowed to stay at the Hatfield's place. Oh, they took her in. They took her in, but they also forbid the marriage. [00:40:00] The thought is that, Devilands Hatfield didn't want to keep ruffling the feathers. He kind of wanted the feud to stop. He was like, can we just be done with this? And he knew that if he went against Randall McCoy that it would just cause more issues. 

So he thought that maybe this would help. And if he's the more, if his family is better off, and he's got a career in the timber industry. Yeah, I could see him just wanting this to be, like what does he have to gain out of the feud? Like if he wins the feud with The McCoys, what does he get? Nothing really. 

Exactly. So it seems like it's more of the McCoys keeping it going. Kind of. At this point it seems like it, yeah. no one would allow this marriage. No one would let it happen. And, Rosanna's brothers were, you know, understandably angry with Johnsy. 

They kind of did that classic brotherly thing of like, you're taking advantage of our sister, like, what are you doing? Because they know that Rosanna doesn't know what the fuck is going on. Maybe if they hadn't abandoned her, and left him the only one to take [00:41:00] care of her for the night. Well, was no one looking for them for hours? 

Like, no one was like, hey, where's my brother, where's my sister? What? So strange. Anyway, whatever. Rosanna's brothers wanted to find Johnsy and hurt him. they were looking and eventually the boys did find John C and Rosanna together They kidnapped John C. I feel like it but no in states of undress I want to believe that just because it's more fun, but I can't confirm nothing about the McCoys or Hatfields can be confirmed So let's just add our own flair to it. 

Like everyone else does 

Well when they were found The McCoy brothers kidnapped Johnsy. They imprisoned him in a hunting cabin on the Kentucky side of the Tug River. The McCoys were able to get Johnsy arrested on some old bootlegging charges. Cause he did do moonshine and that was not allowed at the time. 

So, because of this, Rosanna, in a very Romeo Juliet style, she rode through the night into the woods to warn Devalance of what has happened to his son. And Devalance, along with [00:42:00] other half fields, surrounded the McCoy brothers, and they were able to retrieve John C. 

Okay. Without incident. Okay, no one's, no one's hurt, no one's killed. No one's hurt, no one's killed, but this just kind of adds a little fervor to it. Give me my boy back. Okay, here you go. Well, here comes the inevitable announcement from Rosanna. Oh, God. She's She's got a seed in her, doesn't she? Mm hmm. 

She's preggers. She's got devil's grandson. Yeah, she's got the devil's grandson in her Yikes. The Hatfields still said no to their marriage, even after finding out that Rosanna was married. So, if you have a girl that has no home, has no husband, and she's pregnant What do you do with her if she can't get married? 

Send her to a nunnery? Close. Send her to her aunt's. Yeah. Hours away. So they sent her to her aunt's house, to live with, and Jauncey actually ended up marrying Rosanna's cousin [00:43:00] Nancy. All right. Well, Nancy was only 15 at the time. So he was set on like marrying a McCoy woman. He really wanted that. 

I guess. I don't really know why. There's not a reason as to why John C and Nancy got married if Nancy wanted to, because the marriage was short. I don't understand what happened there. She never had his kid. Very strange. And the McCoys were okay with her marrying Nancy is not a direct, is not a sister to Rosanna. 

She's a cousin. Oh, isn't she, is she the daughter of the guy that, of, old Randy's brother that was killed? Harmon McCoy. Yeah. Harmon. Is she the daughter of Harmon? Okay. Yes, she is. Okay. So the miniseries did get that correct. Yes. In the miniseries, we're going to reference quite a bit, I guess. it was correct that Nancy is Harmon's daughter. 

Okay. Yes. So she marries into the family that. Killed her dad. Yeah. Oh, don't worry. She comes back around. I love her story. So back to Rosanna She ended up giving [00:44:00] birth to a little girl. Her name was Sarah Elizabeth. Mm hmm Sarah with an H. 

Her baby unfortunately never made it through infancy and Rosanna herself did not have the greatest end. She is said to have died of a broken heart and she passed away before she turned 30. Hmm. And I don't believe she ever saw her family or anyone again. 

Wow. Yeah. So, there's the end of that line. Love will always get ya. It will. Now, this is where the food If you just voted and gone home that day at the polling station. If you just vote and go, don't start shit. Don't be shit. Don't start banging people and lying in the polling station. I, that's exactly what happened. 

You heard it in the line of polling station. So after all of this, the feud really starts to escalate, but it's still over the course of a few years. So Things are still happening. Now. We're fast forwarding two more years to 1882. Election day again. 

Gotta love it. So again, we're doing a big [00:45:00] social gathering, A big to-do, big hoot nanny. Now, this one, people were drinking. They were drinking their moonshine, they were getting a little sloppy, And the tensions were very high, thanks to the hog trot, as we spoke about. 

Now, one person who was drinking quite a bit was Ellison Hatfield, who is a brother of Devil Lance. Okay. So he was drinking quite a bit, getting a little mouthy. Ellison. Some of the McCoy boys were also getting a little mouthy back. Now the McCoy boys meaning Randall's sons. 

Three of Randall's sons. Tolbert, Farmer, and Randolph, Jr. They all got into a fight with Ellison. Okay. All four guys are fighting now, and the boys ended up stabbing Ellison 26 times. Jesus. Yeah, this is quite the escalation. Three on one, and they still had to stab him over two dozen times? 

I think I can only imagine they all had a knife. They all had like a little knife or something and [00:46:00] were just jabbing them, you know? 26 times. Damn. Yeah, it's crazy. No one broke this fight up, obviously. No! But, 26 times. The authorities did apprehend the boys. 

but the Hatfield clan, they said, Nope, we're taking them. And they just took them from the officials. Yep. They said, we want them. And the officials just let them? yeah, I think that the Hatfields kind of outnumbered them. And again, in the hills of the South at that time, you kind of just live and let live. 

Like, hey, just keep your issues at home as long as it doesn't spread further. it's a weird, like, mind your own type of thing down there. It's interesting. The North likes to get in everyone's business. Anyway, the Hatfields kept the boys captive in West Virginia. They didn't want them to be on the Kentucky side of things. 

the stabbing of Ellison happened in Kentucky. Yes. Okay, gotcha. That's where the polls happen. Yeah, that's where the stabbing happened and the Hatfields take him out of custody [00:47:00] back into their West Virginia stronghold. 

Cross state lines, the whole thing. Lynch mob justice to begin with. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's how it was. Federal kidnapping is what Hatfield did. So, they were holding the boys, kind of waiting to see if Ellison, the brother, was going to pull through or not. He was struggling. He didn't die immediately. He was struggling and they wanted to see if Ellison lives, so will the boys. 

If Ellison dies, so will they. 

Ellison did eventually pass from his wounds. And Aunt's Devil Lance Hatfield and his crew, they took the boys just over the river onto the Kentucky side and they tied them up to paw paw bushes. Every account I've read has specified paw paw bushes. I don't dunno what a paw paw bushes. 

they tie him up in the woods. They tie him up to these pawpaw bushes, and they lined up their firing [00:48:00] squad, and they executed all three boys. It's said that there were over 50 shots fired. Damn. They really went for it. At least they kept, took them over to Kentucky side so they could, you know, be with their family. 

So, after this, shit hit the fucking fan. the McCoys were done. They threw 20 indictments atop the heads of 20 Hatfields. They were like, all of you need to go. Charges, all of this, we're done with you. The McCoys had a lawyer on their side, Mr. 

Perry Klein. Esquire. Yes, he comes back into play. Now, he's also married into the family, in the McCoy family. Actually, he married Harmon McCoy's widow. Perry Kline related through marriage and he had really great connections in politics and everything and he was able to kind of push these indictments through. 

Now, the Hatfields knew their land and they knew the surrounding hills. They were able to avoid capture pretty easily. [00:49:00] However, Perry Kline also had a personal vendetta against the Hatfields. Kline was involved in a lawsuit against Devil Ants a few years prior over the deed of thousands of acres of land and timber rights. 

Oh, so Hatfield's livelihood. And I'm assuming he won since he still has the timber industry that we know of. Yep, Hatfield won and the Perry Kline just can't get past that. I mean that's, that's a whole career, that's a whole life. That's a whole, yeah. Yeah, so it's a fortune. It makes a lot of sense that Perry Klein would kind of be like, Hey, I'm done with him too. 

Well, deviance got tired real quick of being on the run and hiding. He was sick of it, so he wanted an end to this feud. He just wanted to be done, so he decided to have some of his men. Ambush Randall and his son, Calvin. Randy and Calvin. Now, Devil Ants was not a part of this posse. He's not really a part of a lot of the [00:50:00] posse. 

Yeah, he's the ringleader. Yeah, he's the puppet master. So when they went. They killed Randall's nephews by mistake. What? How many? Two nephews? Two nephews. And I'm not sure Like shot him? Lynched him? Yep, shot him. All I know is they killed two nephews by mistake. And then days later, Cap Hatfield and the sons. 

Yep, that's the second oldest son. And Tom Wallace. Who I think is a friend of Cap. I'm not really sure. He's only in this part of the story They broke into the house of Mary who was the sister of a McCoy. Okay Okay, so they ended up beating Mary flogging her because they believed that Mary was telling Jeff Kind of being a spy a little bit like giving him ideas of what the Hatfields are gonna do I don't know how Mary knew these things. 

I do think somehow somewhere [00:51:00] along the way someone was a spy kind of and Telling the McCoys what the Hatfields are up to yeah, and in this case. 

It's Mary and unfortunately she gets flogged by Cap and this Tom guy Yeah, so that snitches get stitches. Yeah, that was a pretty big deal and when Jeff the brother of Mary found out he went after Cap and Tom and Tom was able to escape and Cap ended up shooting Jeff killing him banks of the Tug River. 

Yes killing him So that raised the stakes even more. After the murder of his nephews, the McCoys stepped up their aggression quite a bit. They started using more of their political connections through Klein. Klein ended up pushing for bounties to be placed on the heads of the Hatfields. 

Oh, you can just do that back then as a private citizen? Like, that's weird. You could just be like, Hey, I'll pay X amount if you kill or capture this guy. Is he a private citizen if he's acting as [00:52:00] their lawyer? I mean, a citizen can't just, Hey, I want you. I have a feud against that guy. I'll pay my lawyer to offer a bounty. 

He's got the ear of the political figures, though. He's got their ear, so he bent their ears. Alright, if they're okaying it. Yeah, they okayed it. Yeah, it was his connections, that's the whole point, is that he had connections, and he said I want bounties on their heads, and they said okay, however that worked, I don't know. 

Very strange, but The stakes got higher. Whew. Now that the Hatfields have bounties on their heads, they are fighting for their lives. They're hiding, and it's said that Devil Ants didn't go anywhere without his shotgun for the rest of his life. Yeah. Honestly. I mean, this makes sense. Their heads were on a swivel. 

Now this leads us to 1888. Okay. Where Devil Ants and the Hatfield clan are so done of hiding and running. Yeah, they've been hiding in the hills for years now. Yes. [00:53:00] They just, again, want it to be done. So, Devil Ants and crew come up with this idea, and they decide, again, Devil Ants is not a part of the posse that goes, but he's a part of the plan. 

The posse goes, and they want to ambush the McCoy household. On New Year's Day in 1888. Okay. This is called the New Year's Day Massacre. Yeah, so they ambush a large group ends up creeping up to the McCoy home. Jim Vance and Cap Hatfield were the leaders of this. Posse. Jim Vance. The one who started it all. 

Yes. And he's still around. Doing shit. Randall McCoy ended up slipping out the back, thinking that if he was gone, they would leave the women and children alone. 

It's only women and children. You know, you think you still have some of that old chivalry there. You know, that Southern gentleman. Where's that Southern gentleman to be found? Not here. Yep. Not between the McCoys and the [00:54:00] Hatfields, that's for sure. So, the Hatfields, end up opening fire on the house. 

Like you said, they don't even really wait to listen to anything. They're just firing right into this household and they set the house on fire. As is their want to do. Yep, that's how it is. A bunch of Pinkertons. 

Yeah, it does feel Pinkerton ly. Our subject isn't home, just blow up his family's house. Yeah, F it, just go crazy. Randall's wife, Sally. She was severely beaten when she was trying to comfort her dying daughter. Now her daughter, Alifair, was 29 years old at the time, but they all still live together. she was shot in the crossfire when she was trying to flee the home. 

And that's who Sally was comforting? Comforting when she was beaten. Okay. Then their son, Calvin, who was 26 years old, he was also shot and killed during the ambush. So Two kids are killed in the ambush. Yes. Adult children. Now, Sally survived the beating, but she was never the [00:55:00] same. 

Her skull was completely crushed in. It's amazing that she even survived this attack. 

After the New Year's Day massacre, one week later on January 8th, Jim Vance was shot and killed by, Frank Phillips. This is a new player in this little feud here, Frank Phillips. There was a shootout at Vance's Home, Frank Phillips went to Vance's Home where he was wounded and then killed. 

Jim Vance. Jim Vance. Not bad, Frank. Yeah. and I wanted just to put this in there. The miniseries showed the McCoys taking Jim Vance's body and like, holding it up in his coffin and Nancy was like, drinking with it and doing photos. That didn't happen. Okay. I looked into that and I just, I don't know, for any McCoys still out there, like, y'all didn't do that. 

I just don't, that's such a weird thing for the miniseries to put in. It's so, like, egregious. I think probably, historically, the idea that outlaws and famous figures would, that did happen a lot. With the main photograph. Just, [00:56:00] not him specifically. But they're, that same era, that same, like, just trying to. 

I guess that's fair. Took some creative liberties to paint the era they were in, if not the actual literal circumstance, but. Yeah, I don't know. I just wanted to put that in there. But you're right. It did happen a lot. But it did not happen to Jim Vance. There you go. McCoy's did not do that. So now that Jim Vance is dead and thing we have bad Frank Phillips coming into play here I want to talk about that a little bit. 

So we're gonna go a little bit further January 19th now of 1888 We're just a few weeks after that New Year's Day massacre. So blood still running hot. Yep. Just a few weeks now the Hatfields We're planning yet another retaliation because of Jim Vance But Bad Frank and the McCoys were privy to this, and they ended up meeting the Hatfield posse at Grapevine Creek. 

Grapevine Creek. And now we have the Battle of Grapevine Creek. For a second, Bad Frank Phillips, is he a McCoy by blood? Is he, is he a hired gunman? [00:57:00] Yeah, so Bad Frank Phillips was appointed by the Kentucky governor at the time, Governor Buckner, and he was appointed from he was like a sheriff's deputy and he got bolstered up to a special envoy to assist in the capture and arrest of the indicted Hatfields. 

Oh, so he's I think Klein had something to do with this. So he's like a specific, he's brought in specifically to do this task. He's brought in to get the Hatfields. So he's like a bounty hunter. So I'm pretty sure Perry Klein was a part of this. Yeah, they dressed his title up. He's a bounty hunter. 

Bad Frank Phillips entered the mix things did get a bit more violent as we can see he already started off hot with that Jim Vance So bad Frank He led a group of McCoy's and supporters to get the Hatfield like McCoy supporters to get the Hatfields and the battle of grapevine Creek Like I said, it occurred January 19th, and it's said to be really the last major skirmish between the families. 

A [00:58:00] lot of people think that the New Year's Day massacre is the end of it, but this is really the end of it. There was the capture of eight Hatfields. Bad Frank really was a bad man. How many, do we know how many were killed? Were any killed or was it all just captured? None were killed, just captured. 

Oh, okay. Now they were charged, tried, and convicted in Pike County, Kentucky. And Bad Frank ended up marrying Nancy McCoy. She has a little redemption there for her family. I think, I mean, fuck it. If she has to choose, I think this is the guy to choose. For her. For her. Not for me. I don't know. So he's a bad man. 

Yeah, bad Frank. Yeah She did end up leaving John C soon after they got married because he just kept running around on her So that's what happened there John C. Yeah So bad Frank and Nancy they fell in love and bad Frank was a hero to the McCoys. They had one child together in 1895 Bad Frank, he [00:59:00] died in a gunfight in 1898 at the age of 36. 

Only 36, huh? He was only 36, yeah. And then Nancy died of tuberculosis three years after Frank. And she was also 36, though, when she died. So now we're going to get into the trial. 

Of the eight Hatfields that Bad Frank captured in Grapevine Creek. So the eight members of the Hatfield clan were hauled off to jail. And because of all of this feuding and this back and forth, the trial took a while to get ready. It took. I mean, I think it was a year before there was a trial on this because they need to wade through all these other things that were happening. 

So yeah, it took a minute. Yeah. so the trial began in 1889 and this actually went all the way up to the Supreme Court. Oh, which a lot of people don't really know. It's interesting because West Virginia sued for the release of the Hatfields. Because they were captured in [01:00:00] I don't know. Grapevine Creek. 

And I did not look up where Grapevine Creek is. McCoy's. Captured the Hatfields in West Virginia and took them into Kentucky for their trial. Okay, gotcha. That's, all right, so I can see the groundwork for why the Supreme Court would get in this. 

That makes a lot more sense. See, your legal brain is working. Mine just went, oh, okay. I accept that. Well, I probably shouldn't accept everything, but I question enough. It's fine. The Supreme Court's decision was that it was fair to only put on trial the Hatfields that were already in custody. They basically were like, listen y'all, be fucking done. 

Deal with these eight that you have and just let it go. Like, let it go. We're all done with this shit. Just be done with it. So after the trial, seven of the Hatfields were sentenced to life in prison. [01:01:00] And the final person was sentenced to death by hanging. And that last person, unfortunately, was Ellison Cottontop Hatfield. 

Was he named after her? His dad that got stabbed 26 times. Yes, and Cottontop, if you did watch the miniseries or are going to, he is He's depicted correctly. He's slower. Yes, he, he doesn't really understand what's going on. And this is the sad part of the feud. He wouldn't be put to death today. Except in Texas. 

I can say that I'm from Texas, probably. It's a known thing. They execute people who are challenged all the time. Like, every day. Great. But, yes, so, Ellison, Cotton Top. He was viewed as kind of a scapegoat as kind of like a sacrificial, sacrificial lamb sort of thing. And he was hanged [01:02:00] in Kentucky. Now, public executions were not legal at this time. 

However, thousands of people still showed up to the hanging of Ellison of Cotton Top Hatfield. And he was hanged on February 18th, 1890. Now, reports claim that his final words were, They made me do it. The Hatfields made me do it. It doesn't sound like he had the, wherewithal or capacity to orchestrate this. 

Clearly he was just to put a gun in his hand and put it in the right direction. No, I do believe he was the one that shot Alafair, like it was in the miniseries. I do believe he did shoot her, but he didn't know what he was doing or why he was doing it. It's not the same culpability as the ones who organized the plan. 

He was told to do it. Everyone just kind of sort of retreated Randall McCoy became a ferry operator in 1914 and he died at the age of 88 from burns that he got in an accidental cooking fire 

people say that he was haunted by the death of his children for the rest of his life. I think he had five. But several of them were killed in the feud. 

five [01:03:00] of them were killed during the feud. Three were shot in those pawpaw bushes. And then Calvin and Alifer were shot in the massacre. So then Sally McCoy, they're not exactly sure when she died, but they think 89 or 90, in 1889 or 1890. after she survived the attack from her, yeah, her skull being crushed in, she was never the same. 

And we're pretty sure that she was sent to a mental hospital, and she most likely died there. A sanitarium. Oh, sorry. As they were called then. They were called back then, yes. Bring it back. Yeah, they ended up, like I said, losing those five children. So now, Devil Ants, he, after everything, bought some land in a remote location and he just, he was always a little paranoid after that. 

He took special measures to like avoid capture. He was always kind of hunted for revenge, money, I think the law was still after him for certain things. But. I don't think it was a big enough deal. I [01:04:00] think it was more paranoia on his end. No one's really going for him anymore. 

interestingly enough though, devil Ants was baptized when he was older in 1911. Hitching his bet says death's nearing. I think so because when he was younger, he was once quoted as saying, I belong to no church unless you say, I belong to the one great church of the world, if you like. You can say it is the Devil's Church I belong to. 

In 1921, Devil Ants Hatfield did die of pneumonia in his home, and he was 81 years old. 

Wow. After his death, his family, made a marble statue that still stands today of him. Where is it? I don't know. It's somewhere in that area. Oh. Okay. Let's look it up. Apparently, the statue is on Island Creek. Oh yeah, that's where his little remote location was. That's cute. In Logan County, West Virginia. 

Oh, okay. That makes sense. Sometimes [01:05:00] my brain just goes, I don't need to know that, and I stop. His, home play site. Is, still able to be visited and everything. Yeah. Oh, wow. Maybe we should do a little trip. We'll see. Now, Devil Ants was 81 years old when he died. 

And, yeah, the statue, da da da. Levisie Hatfield. His wife. His wife. She also died of pneumonia, but she died in 1929 at the age of 86. Wow. And none of their children were actually killed during the feud. Not during the feud, yeah. None of their children. Jim Vance was killed. Yeah. Ellison Hatfield was murdered. 

Was the brother of Devil. the Hatfields did more killing. and they went for the jugular when they did it. They were rich. Yeah, well richer I guess I don't say they're rich but they But better off tragedy still did strike a little after the feud two sons of the Hatfields Troy and Elias They were killed in 1911 [01:06:00] by a drunk minor 

Not a drunken child. Not a 12 year old running around like pew pew. Well, a lot of people are killed by miners today. That's funny. Usually it's other miners. Now the oldest son John C. He also died early in 1922 in his cabin and that's all I could find. I don't know how he died and He was a part of the New Year's Day Massacre. 

So he was He was supposed to do life in prison, but he only served 13 years. And then he was released. So I'm sure there was something. But, yeah, he died in 1922. So, their mom did end up outliving three of her children still. When you have 13 or 16, it's bound to happen. Yeah, that's true. Now fast forward to 2003. 

There was an honorary peace treaty signed between the descendants of the Hatfields and McCoys. Yeah, it was kinda cute. That's cute. It's cute. And this signified the official ending of the feud, and it serves as a reminder of how far both families have come. 

So, [01:07:00] now we have all the facts, well, the stories anyway, the legends. And, what we do know is the feud started in 1865 with the killing of Harmon, Or 1878 with the theft of a hog. 

The country was changing. They didn't like each other. Yeah, they just didn't like each other. And later on in life, like years and years and years later with genetic testing, we also discovered that the McCoys have a genetic disorder that could have helped with this. 

It's called Von Hippel Lindau disease. Okay. And this causes, like, a tumor like mass to sit on their adrenal glands, and the adrenal glands produce adrenaline when you need it. But when there's a tumor like mass sitting on it, you're always having adrenaline pumping through you. So you're kind of in a heightened You're already heightened and emotional responses are gonna be yeah more severe Absolutely. 

And so when something does happen in your adrenal glands release [01:08:00] more adrenaline, they are like pumped up with it They're going all the way So some people are kind of theorizing that that was a factor as well that the McCoys just couldn't fucking let go Maybe that's I don't know. Yeah all the factors The Hatfields did more killing, though. 

It's a family killing a bunch of people who have problems. Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, who really knows what happened. It was most likely the perfect storm of all of these factors with some internal personal issues. All of it. Oh, also, if you've been listening to this whole time, The phrase, The Real McCoy, has nothing to do with the McCoy family, just so everyone knows. 

I once looked up the history of that phrase independently, and like, it's one of those ones that like, no one really knows. There's two theories. Yeah, there's theories, but like, we can't state definitively. No, one of them is that some person named McCoy that's not in this feud or anything, he invented [01:09:00] something, and he patented it, and people that want it say, I want The Real McCoy. 

The other one is there's a Scottish whiskey called Mackay, and back in the day, it was an older whiskey, and people were asking for the real Mackay during, Prohibition time, and then it just turned into the real McCoy. Either way, it doesn't have anything to do with this family, and it was hurting my brain not knowing that, so I just thought I'd let you guys know that too. 

It's always pretty good. Appreciative. Yeah. Now a little fun thing if you want, is you can go down to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, if you want to see the Hatfield and McCoy Dinner Feud. Oh, they reenacted it? Dinner Feud, yeah. Is it like, Medieval Times or something like that? Yeah, yep. Okay. So they will do like a little song and dance and a show and it's comedic, I think, from what I saw on the website. 

And you get to have dinner and everything. So if you're ever in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, check it out. It looks a lot of fun. It is Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. Yes. 

I looked into it [01:10:00] quite a bit, because I want to go. We're going to go one day, and if you've already been, please let us know, because they have cool things that are called like Feud and Fried Chicken and Pulled to Pieces Pork Barbecue. Like, it sounds hilarious and great. And again, that's Hatfield and McCoy Dinner Feud. 

If you want to Google that, you can find it. I want to go to it. If you do go to it, and you want to tell me about it, you can email me at borrowed bones podcast at gmail. com. I'd really like to hear about it. 

Yeah. Colts, family dynamics, all of it. I'd really like that. I will have all of my sources in the show notes. I hope everyone enjoys them. We don't have a sign off yet. We're working on it. Yeah. I'm just going to say goodbye. 

Okay. 

Hello, everyone. Actually, hello to no one. This is our first ever recording of our podcast, Borrowed Bones. My name is Sarah. I'm Cole. [01:11:00] And this is a podcast about fucked up families and familial relationships. Whether you are related by blood or by bond, we can all agree that families bring us up and tear us down. 

I'm here to dust off those closeted skeletons and take a closer look at what we hide away. All right. 

 For our first episode, I had to start with a classic. 

Ooh. Oldie but a goodie? You bet. I'm assuming you know about this. It's the most infamous family feud in American history. 

Hatfields and McCoys? Ding ding! I don't know how to use our soundboard yet, so you're just gonna hear my lovely sound effects. Organic. For our first episode, that's where I had to go. I'm not even sure if we can actually call it a feud, though. 

What else would you call it? An armed conflict? Yeah, but over years and years, it is a slow burn. Those closest to the feud downplayed it a little bit, and after about ten years of it all happening, that's when the legend of it all [01:12:00] sprang up. 

Ten years seems like a long family feud in general. Yeah, there were some pauses though. We'll get into it. So first, the Hatfields and McCoys. They lived on either side of the Tug River. And that split between Kentucky and West Virginia. Okay. What era? We're talking 1800s, right? But Civil War, mid to late 1800s. 

Civil War is actually where we start with this story. And for those of you that might not know, the Civil War ended in 1865. And West Virginia was created as a new state during the Civil War. Correct, yeah. One of two, what's the other state that was created? Nevada. 

It became a state during the Civil War. Alright, moving on. Anyway. Alright, so the McCoys lived on the Kentucky side of the river. Okay, and the Hatfields lived on the West Virginia side of the river. Just a river [01:13:00] That's all that was separating them. 

Neighbors essentially of that era. Yes, especially living in Appalachia They weren't really they were not slave owners themselves the Appalachian area of America didn't really get hit the same way, didn't really have the same effect during the Civil War the way that other places did, especially areas that were for the slave economics, for lack of a better term. 

Because Kentucky was a slave state, but stayed loyal to the Union and never seceded. West Virginia, also created by the Union, separating it from Virginia, which obviously was a confederate state. Do we know what either families Sympathies lied with? Union or Confederate? It's a mix. How did it start? Who started it? And who's to blame? Need two sides to have a feud. And like we were just speaking about, this all starts during the Civil [01:14:00] War. In 1865, near the end of the Civil War, Harmon McCoy, he came home due to an injury. Now, Harmon McCoy, he fought for the Union. He was the only one, I believe. I did not see anyone else on either side of the families that fought for the union. 

When Harman came home, Anderson Anse Hatfield, who went by Devil Anse Hatfield, he is the patriarch of the Hatfield family. How'd he get a name like Devil? We'll get into that. It's a part of his story. He fought for the Confederate States of America in the Civil War, so for the South. 

And he believed that Harmon was responsible, or he was at least with the group of people that killed a friend of Devalance's during war, Maybe a controversial hot take, especially today, but the Confederates were the bad guys in the Civil War. We can Pretty much agree with that, right? I'll agree. Okay. I think we all should be able to agree that slavery is bad. We yeah, let's move on. But anyway, at [01:15:00] the time, like I said, Appalachia in general, a lot of those people really did think that they were fighting someone else's war. 

They weren't slave owners. And you said the Hadfields, Northern McCoys were themselves slave owning families as far as we know. Okay. Yeah. Not that I know anyway. I did not see any of that. Devil Ants upon learning that Harmon was home, he put out a warning, and that resulted in Harmon going into hiding. 

He was hiding in a cave when he was found, and the story goes that Devilance's uncle, James, who goes by Jim, Vance, was the one who shot and killed Harmon. Ah. Jim Vance. 

so this first McCoy on ice, they should put that in a slogan. Yeah. And then this, of course, it did create some tension, but years ago by yeah, murder typically creates a little bit of tension between families. 

Yeah. So again, 1865, Harmon McCoy is killed by Jim Vance, who is devil Lance's uncle. And people are pretty [01:16:00] sure that devil Lance knew or set him to it. Okay. Now. Before we go any further, I want to talk about the families and get an idea of how they're set up. Yeah, give me the structures of these families. 

You gave me Devil Lance is the patriarch of the Hatfields. So who's his analogy or his analogous partner on the McCoy side of this? Who's the head of that family? So the McCoy patriarch is Randolph, and this is where I'm going to give you all the nicknames for everyone, too. We have Randolph, who goes by Randall. 

Which is what I'll be using. Okay. So I call him Randall, and Randy McCoy. Let's call him Randy. Randy. I'm gonna stick with Randall, you do whatever you want. 

Why not? Randall was married to Sarah, but she went by Sally. Why? I'm not sure. What is the point of that? Maybe you should call me Sally. Yeah, not, don't like it. No. ? No. [01:17:00] Alright. So Sarah and Randall. 

Sally. I don't know it's going to interchange 'cause I like my name better than Sally, but she did go by Sally. In all fairness, Randall and Sally are first cousins. As was the norm of the time. And that kind of comes back, but we'll see a little bit. It comes back like a recessive trait. 

Yes. And they had 16 children together. I'm gonna rattle them off quickly here, in order of oldest to youngest. 

The oldest of the McCoy children was Josephine. 

And then we have James, and then Floyd, Tolbert, Lilburn, Samuel, and then they had number seven, which was just Daughter, because she didn't make it past infancy. And then they have Alaphare, and then Rosanna, Calvin, Farmer, with a P H. 

Randolph Jr., William. Trinvilla. Wait a minute, he named kid like, 13? Junior? Close, kid 12. He just ran out of names? Yep. [01:18:00] That's weird to take that long to get a junior. Usually it's the first one, right? Listen, he wasn't narcissistic. He thought, ah, we're running out of names, I'll finally put my name. 

And then number 15's Adelaide, number 16 is Fanny. The names that you all need to bear in mind are Tolbert, or tolbear. Farmer, Randolph Jr., Rosanna, Alifare, and Calvin. Is Alifare a male or female? Okay. And then, going to the Hatfield side, like I said, Devil Ants on top. 

We have Devil Ants. Anderson Devil Ants Hatfield. And he married Levisi. And they got married just before the Civil War. And together, they had 13 children. Okay. Their oldest was Johnson, who went by Johnsy. 

William Anderson, who went by Cap. Robert Lee, classic. Nancy, Elliot, Mary, Elizabeth, Elias. Detroit. Detroit? [01:19:00] Yeah. I wonder if he went by Detroit. He did not. French pronunciations. He went by Troy. Oh. Yeah. I don't know how they got that name, but that's pretty cool because represent Michigan. What up? And then Joseph, Rosa Da Lee. 

Emmanuel Willis. And then Tennyson, who went by Tennis. Okay. I like these names. Anyway, the names that you need to pay attention to in that one are Johnsy, Cap, and That's really it. Yeah, just those two. And then Jim Vance, of course, and Devilance, and all that. 

So, Jim Vance Is Devil an's uncle. So he's a great uncle to the kids. He's got a different last name. He's married in, obviously. Okay, gotcha. Yeah. All right. He married into the Hatfield family. Okay. So we got 13 kids on one side, on the Hatfield side and 16 on the McCoys. Yes. All right. So we're starting strong. 

Got a small little militia, basically like [01:20:00] to bang a lot. What else is there to do in them hills? Yeah. You cut timber, churn butter, and F your cousins. I don't know. Alright, so just to recap, we have Harmon McCoy, who was murdered by Jim Vance due to the Civil War issues in 1865, and then nothing for a while. 

Thirteen years to be exact. Oh! Nothing. This is where one of those theories are where Did it start there or did it start here? People kind of debate. Did it start with the murder of Harmon McCoy or did it start with what I'm about to talk about 13 years later? 

Is there a Porcine figure involved? Yep. A couple. Or none. We'll see. Exactly. So 13 years later, 1878 is where we're at right now. A lot happened in that year. There's a hog trial. Ah. Now, there's quite a few versions of this hog trial, and I'm gonna tell you the most widely known [01:21:00] one, and then I'm gonna Break it down and this is the lay like as a more or less outsider to this who doesn't know a whole lot about it This is the thing that I first I would say the average person probably if you only know anything about the few the first thing You hear is oh it started over a pig, right? 

Yes that's the myth of the folklore that everyone's told. I guess we'll get into how accurate that is or what the kernel of that rumor is. This took a lot of my research, a lot of my time. I was very surprised to find how many different iterations there are of this trial. 

So in 1878, Randall McCoy, remember the Patriarch? He accused Floyd Hatfield. He's a cousin to the Hatfields. He doesn't really matter, but this is what's happening. He's not one of the children. He's just a relative because everyone's related in these general areas. 

Everyone's related to everyone. There's intermarrying. There's all that happening. Floyd Hatfield is cousin of the Hatfields, and Randall [01:22:00] McCoy accused Floyd of stealing his hog. Pig rustling. Not for pig rustling. They couldn't waste it that way. It's rustling. You rustle livestock. 

You're stealing a pig. Oh, I thought you meant wrestle. No, rustling. Like getting in there and mud rustling. No, no, no, no, no, No. You could rustle a pig to later rassle it. You gotta say rassle. Normally I would say rustle, but if you're also having Russell in the same sentence as a verb to steal livestock. 

Yeah, you gotta differentiate, otherwise they sound too similar. Case in point, exactly. So we accused him of being a pig rustler. Yes, not a rustler, but who knows. Just one pig is this story right here. Hogs at the time were thought to be, like, a big deal. They helped families make it through the winter, and there were quite a few hog trials in the court documents around that time from that area. 

It's like stealing someone's livelihood for the winter. A good pig that you fatten up for a couple years. [01:23:00] The goal to feed your family for a few seasons, smoked meat and whatnot, and it's suddenly gone. What are you gonna do? Exactly, that feeds your family for at least a few days. 

They get really big. But strangely, there were not any court documents of this hog trial. Now remember, they do live in a more remote area. So a lot of things were just handled officially, but unofficially. Court records back then, I know from elsewhere in the country, were not The best. 

Yeah, you never know. Fires happen, things get moved. so all of this is by word of mouth. Okay, so if I'm wrong, I'm not wrong. 

So it's an oral tradition Yes most of the Hatfield and McCoy stuff is Now the story goes that hundreds of people came from all around to see this trial and be a part of the action The local judge was a member of the Hatfield family. He was the Justice of the Peace. 

But they were typically used in small rural areas. But acting as the judge though. Okay. Yeah. I could see. One person [01:24:00] could do both roles if necessary if needed. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so that's what's happening here. We have the just of the piece slash judge That is a Hatfield and the trial had six Hatfields on one side of the jury and six McCoys on the other side of the jury 

That's the case, but it wasn't randomly selected, per the story. They wanted to make it fair in order to have people from both sides of the family in there I'm not sure. I can't find 12 people who don't have opinion on this but that's how the story goes that the jury was set up So Selkirk McCoy and Bill Staten both played a vital role in the trial. Selkirk was a juror on the McCoy side, and he was voting in favor for the Hatfish. He ended up dividing the families even further. He defected. Selkirk lived on the West Virginia side with the Hatfields, and he worked for Devilance in his timber business. 

So he went more for [01:25:00] geography and livelihood than blood. Yeah, like I said, family is blood or by bond. Maybe he's a bit of a free thinker. Wild. And then we have Bill Staten, who gave a key testimony that ended up swaying the votes in favor of the Hatfields as well. Now Bill Staten is family to both sides. 

Through marriage. He was born into the McCoy family, but married a Hatfield. So he's a witness at this possible trial. Yes. And he testifies. He says that he saw Floyd Hatfield make the notch on the hog's ear. Oh, William, what's this notch on the hog's ear? 

What's going on here? That's the telltale kind of brand. Yeah. So instead of branding the pig or the livestock, they would notch the ears and there are certain types of notches that they would do. And so Bill Staten was saying, I saw Floyd Hatfield. Do the notches. 

 Once [01:26:00] it was understood or thought that Staten had seen Floyd Hatfield do the notches on the hog, the matter was settled and it favored the Hatfields and McCoys left the courtroom disgruntled and angry. Now that's the story that everyone knows. The McCoys lost, they're mad and the feud goes on. 

Yep. Okay. So The 13 ish years in between an unsolved, as far as we know, an officially unsolved murder and the possible hog theft, nothing really happened, as far as we know, in this feud. With the murder, no. Yeah. Okay, So the McCoy's get more riled up over a hog theft than over a murder of one of their own According to the story. 

Okay. Yes. So like you killed my brother, I'll let that slide for a decade But you stole my pig and we're gonna have words. Absolutely. I mean remember maybe he didn't like his brother I mean his brother went to the North fought for the North so maybe he Already was like Maybe he was on [01:27:00] Anse's side in that sense. 

Not like endorsing it, not shedding too many tears over it either. Yeah, I'm not really sure. Like you said, nothing really came of it. It was at the time in our country when people were coming back from the Civil War and they weren't really getting along. Like, You don't just get along right away. 

You know, You have these differences, these moral issues, and you still are kind of fighting. I mean, Devil Anse Devil ance himself is said to have deserted. So he is a double trader but he also is more of a capitalist than anything. He's like, I have shit to do. What do these two families do for their livelihoods? Are they just farmers? You mentioned? Some lumber that the Hatfields had. So the Hatfields are in the timber industry. Okay. Which is perfect for the area. Yeah. And they do all the timber, and they end up being pretty successful in that sense. 

They do well. The Hatfields actually came from the Mayflower. Oh, okay. Like, They're straight up American. Yeah. Yeah, old school American. The McCoys just struggled along. They farmed, they had [01:28:00] some timber. They weren't really overly successful in anything, though. 

They're the more well to do of the two families. Yes. No question. Okay, and the timber business does come back into play So I'm glad you asked. Okay, so the general squabbling and fighting back to the hog trial after everything was settled Kind of happened and then two years go by and they're still just little squabbles little arguments little skirmishes Nothing too serious though, but things are just boiling a little bit. 

So that brings us to 1880 Yes. Okay. So there are two McCoys. They are nephews of Randall McCoy. Okay. They are not his kids. They are Sam and Paris McCoy. Yeah. 

They could have used her, I think. Who? Paris from the Gilmore Girls. You've heard her when I've had them on. Okay. Anyway, Sam and Paris McCoy, they saw Bill Staten in the woods and they shot and killed him. Two years later. That's the story that they gave. They said well, self defense. 

But the [01:29:00] only three people were there, so we're not sure. Sam ended up fleeing for about two years and Paris was apprehended soon after the killing. once Sam was back in custody. They were both tried and found not guilty on the grounds of self defense. 

if you as a defendant assert that, it's on the prosecution to prove you didn't defend yourself, and if there's no witness to say, that they stalked him and deliberately shot him down, do we have any info on this? Staten's reputation? Was he prone to violence? 

Would it be believable that he would assault them or put them in a position that they would have to defend themselves? It's believable that all three of these gentlemen would have murdered or started or done So it's one of those things where it's like, We don't want to feed into the feud, we just want to subdue it. 

Okay. So charging them might have been a little too risky. This seems to make that there's a the body count now is equal to The Hatfields killed a [01:30:00] McCoy in 1865, now the McCoys have killed one of theirs. 

The two years after the Hog Trial, the killing of Bill Staten, all of that is what most people will say started the feud. Really lit a fire under it. 

That's when things start happening much more rapidly. I would like to break down the Hog Trial, though, before we get further into the story, just so we can see how everything got so drummed up, and how all of this, I don't know, telephone game, is where we're at today. Spill the bacon. 

Yeah. 

Alright, so I did quite a bit of digging. I was looking for those primary sources, those first hand accounts. I'm just envisioning myself as a pig looking for books in the dirt. I don't know. Anyway, I was looking for some primary resources or sources, and I was trying to put my history degree to some use since I have it and I'm paying for it. Fuck it. Let's use it. So in my search for these, I discovered that the hog trial just wasn't really that [01:31:00] sensational. 

It wasn't really the biggest deal, and what happened was a few years later, we're going to fast forward just a little bit before we go back, in 1888, so ten years after the Hogg trial. That's when we have our first reporter on the scene to talk about it. So by then It's been ten years. 

The reputation of this feud has Spread in the region. 

They're just quick little snippets to see how this sort of story turns into a legend. The first reporter on the scene, again, 10 years later in 1888, his name is John Spears. He came to the area and he was asking, they called it the private war. He was asking about the private war. That seems to have taken place over the course of the last 10 years. 

Sounds more polite than Blood Feud. Yeah, I know. We've really just drummed it up, like I said, quite a bit. It's very, oh, the private little war. The mutually assured destruction that was going on. Yeah. John Spears, he [01:32:00] spoke with Randall McCoy, the patriarch, who was still around at the time. 

Yeah, old Randy. And he also spoke with Perry Kline. That's a name that will come back. Perry Kline. He's related to the McCoys. He's a lawyer. Oh, he's got a loyally name. Yeah, he does. Esquire. Esquire. And so Spears spoke to only members of the McCoy family and only McCoy supporters. Now, is that because, did he try to reach out to the Hatfields and they weren't interested? 

Or do we not know? We don't know and it doesn't seem like he really leaned one way or the other. I don't know if it's just Lazy reporting because back then people really did just get the bare minimum and run. 

There are some people that come into play that I think have angles though Okay, so John Spears only spoke to McCoy family members and of course that was a pretty one sided story, but still he spoke directly to the people that were involved and he has according to Spears Randall McCoy is quoted as saying It started with, quote, [01:33:00] two, two long nosed, razor backed, elm peeler hogs. 

Two. Not one, two. And he even describes the hogs. So he seems to remember them pretty well. And then continuing to say that Floyd Hatfield is the one that stole his hogs. Okay. So Randall is saying that this happened. So that's why I believe it happened. And he's not mentioning the murder of his brother. 

He's not. A decade beforehand. No. So even by his account, the thing he's most pissed off about is not his brother's murder. He didn't mention it. Pigs. Yeah. His razorbacks being stolen. Yep. 

Conflict of interest inherently. But there probably wasn't a lot of other judges. There were other choices. There just weren't any other choices. Yeah. In all honesty. You can't really recuse yourself back then. Now, the name of which Hatfield presided over the hog trial changes. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. 

Because the Hatfields end up having, well. Ant's Hatfield ends [01:34:00] up having more of a status. His status grows more as time goes on. And so I think they put certain Hatfield names in where others were to bolster up Certain aspects of the feud that might have looked favorably on a Hatfield and they may have taken some names out of areas that don't look so favorably on Hatfields. 

They messed with the records. Yeah, they messed with the records. It's not really the biggest deal, but this adds to why there's so many different iterations of this and different stories. So Matt Hatfield, I believe, was the one who actually presided over the case. And Randall And Randall's family, they told Spears that the two hogs were in the courtroom at the time of the trial. 

Wait a minute, so these pigs were still alive? They weren't butchered? Yeah, according to Randall and his family, ten years later. Okay. But the story we all hear, there aren't pigs in the courtroom. [01:35:00] Yeah. And there's not two, there's one. Yeah. 

So the earliest Confirmed primary source that we have is actually 10 years after the alleged Yes. trial itself. Yes. And, from the pig owner's alleged pig owner's mouth. Okay. Alright. Now, Floyd had witnesses stating that they were Floyd's hogs. Randall remembers this. Yeah. And he says so. We know who those witnesses were. We just talked about them and Randall did not have any witnesses, so he feels that's why he ultimately lost and had to pay the court fees. Okay. 

Now, Randall did mention the killing of Bill Staten, that one witness, and how Staten testified against them. Yeah, Staten's the one who said that the hog was not McCoy's. Because they had the distinct ear notch. Yes, and that's all that he really said about it. He was kind of just like, what up? Yep, that's the thing that happened. 

And that was really it. 

Now a few weeks or about a few months [01:36:00] later after Spears was there, another reporter came on to the scene. Theron C. Crawford, also known as T. C. Crawford. 

A quill. Now he spoke to both sides of the feud, both families. And Crawford, he got the story of how Harmon McCoy was killed. What was he told? By whom? I'm not sure, quite honestly. I don't know who told him. I know that he writes about it, though. 

That's why I know he knows about it. Spears just never wrote on that, and he just probably didn't really know. T. C. Crawford just wrote that the murder did happen. I don't think he named anyone in it. He just said Hatfields, might have been the reason for it. Because all of that was still alleged at the time. 

You're not fully accusing anyone of anything. I am today. I don't care. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jim Vance killed Harmon McCoy. I said it, but the strange thing though is that? TC Crawford talks about Harmon McCoy, but doesn't mention the [01:37:00] hog trial. Oh See, it's weird different newspaper. Yeah, and they spoke to primary source. 

So then there's a few other writers that come in, but those were the two reporters that spoke directly to the primary sources. And then when other. 

I'm going to say writers, not reporters, come into play. They don't even visit the area. One of them starts writing, I think, a year later or so, and adds all these other things, adds dialogue, adds storyline. And it's just not the same. And then someone else comes in and adds more to that. And then someone else comes in 50 years later, adds more to that. 

I just wanted everyone to know what was happening from the actual primary sources. They didn't really say much. 

Now we know all the ins and outs of the hog trial, or maybe not, but we know how the story got bigger and bigger. Yeah. We do know a hog trial happened. There had to be some acorn for that oak to grow out of. Yeah, so the next thing that ends up happening after the hog trial, just in 1880 at this [01:38:00] point, because the hog trial was 78, two years later Bill Staten was murdered. 

Staten's killed, and then a couple years the two killers are acquitted. Oh yeah, the two killers are acquitted. Yes. Yeah, okay. And now we're going to go ahead and talk about this lovely forbidden romance. Can't have a family feud with that little Romeo and Juliet. At least they're breaking out of their respective families. 

I'm assuming. Trying, yes. So I don't know if anyone out there has seen this mini series. About the Hatfields and McCoys with who's in it again? Kevin Costner and Bill Paxton. R. I. P. And then, that was the History Channel that did that, right? I believe so. 2012, I think, came out. 

It was a while ago. But I loved it. We recently re watched it to see everything. And this miniseries drums up this forbidden romance so much. It's fantastic. I love it, but it's unfortunately just not the case. 

So, Forbidden Romance. Yes. By all actual accounts, the whirlwind [01:39:00] romance was not all it was cracked up to be. Who are the parties? It is John C. Hatfield. John C. The oldest of the Hatfield children. Okay. And it is Rosanna McCoy, one of the McCoy girls. Oh. Yes, now we're in the direct line here. So the boys from the well to do family, and the girls from the less well to do. 

Yes. Okay, so I make sure I understand the power dynamics here. Yeah, and for this one, I had to search again for primary sources because of that mini series. I was getting a lot of facts from that. And I was trying to kind of wade my way around that. Again, history degree coming to good use. I did find a blog, and I think this blog is reputable. 

I'll put all of my sources in the show notes and everything, but she's called Appalachian Lady. Okay. And she is a direct descendant of Devil Ants Hatfield. Alright. So I've, I don't know, I think it has some legs. It's worth listening to, you know, reading about. And she said in her blog that she was raised listening to stories from her [01:40:00] elders. 

That tracks. Yeah, so according to the Appalachian Lady, and with some other accounts I found Johnson was, Johnson, his name was Johnson, John C., though, is what he goes by. Johnson, John C., he was viewed as a lover. Not a fighter and at this time, that was a polite way of saying that he was a fuck boy. 

He's a Don Juan, a Casanova, a Lothario. I guess so, yeah, a Coxman. You have your pick of any Jesus. Anyway, he enjoyed chasing the ladies. He often had a few and was juggling a few at once, typically. Ladies man. Yeah. Rosanna, on the other hand, she was a good girl, she was very sheltered, and she just didn't really know the way of the world, especially when it came to matters of love. 

Yikes. We'll find out soon. So the story goes that it was election day, 1880. Now again, Bill Staten's death, murder, was in 1880. Okay. So this is [01:41:00] shortly after, maybe just a few months, I believe, after Bill Staten's death. So tensions are kind of there. Election day, the polls were on the Kentucky side, and election day was a big deal, everyone became a part of it. 

They were very fun for everyone, a big social gathering back then. They had shooting competitions, Best Recipe contests. It's a little festival, or like county fair. Yeah, people are drinking, there's trade moonshine. Yeah, beer kegs. There's a lot going on, yeah. It's a festival. And this is where John C. 

and Rosanna first locked eyes. In the beer tent. Can you imagine a beer tent back then? They probably look like they do today, actually. Ah, they saw each other and it was love at first sight. For her anyway. Yeah, they went into the woods away from the election day festivities They kind of broke away and as young lovers do they lost track of time. 

They did not filibuster They lost track of time and they [01:42:00] didn't come back from the woods until everything was close. The polling was closed Everyone was gone. How far away did they go? I feel like What? They're just in the woods. They're in the woods. Doing what lovers do, I guess. and I don't know. Alright. 

I don't know how good Rosanna was, but she seemed to know what she was doing. So anyway, Rosanna was supposed to go back home with her brothers. Okay. Obviously that did not happen. Her brothers ended up returning home without her. And Randall McCoy Randy, Randy, he was pissed. He said, go back and get her. 

What the hell? Why don't you have your sister? Just left her out in the fucking woods. Yeah. So the brothers, that's what she calls them. Oh Lord. So the brothers go back and they still can't find her there. They're gone. So what happened was. John C. ended up taking Rosanna back to his house. And she stayed the night in his sister's bedroom. 

Would Devil Lance think of that? Was he the knower? They allowed it. They kind of understood what happened there. Okay. And [01:43:00] they're not gonna leave this girl out in the woods. Yeah. Rosanna's in West Virginia now, at the Hatfield house. 

And the McCoys don't know where she is. When Randall discovered where she had been all night, he was furious. Rosanna and Johnsy then said that they wanted to get married. After one night? This is how the story goes, man. Alright. Exactly. Well, I mean, That happened back then a lot. Yeah, you know, this, I saw you, let's get married, whatever. 

Yeah. We're all gonna die by 40 in here. According to the Appalachian Ladies blog, she said that Johnsy never intended to marry Rosanna, but I think it was talked about. I do. You probably let her think you would. I think so. I think that's what was happening. Randall And he's older. 

Yes. And obviously more well to do, yeah. He can get away with it. He's got more world knowledge. Randall McCoy, of course, did not allow it. He said, absolutely no fucking way. What the hell are you thinking? In fact, I disown you for all of this. You're done. You're out. Goodbye, bitch. He disowned her? 

Yup. Goodbye. Huh. [01:44:00] Done. I don't think they ever saw each other again. He said, I'm done with her, I don't want her around anymore, whatever. 

Rosanna was allowed to stay at the Hatfield's place. Oh, they took her in, but they also forbid the marriage. The thought is that Devilands Hatfield didn't want to keep ruffling the feathers. He kind of wanted the feud to stop. He was like, can we just be done with this? And he knew that if he went against Randall McCoy that it would just cause more issues. 

If his family is better off, and he's got a career in the timber industry. I could see him just wanting this to be, like what does he have to gain out of the feud? If he wins the feud with The McCoys, what does he get? Nothing really. 

Exactly. So it seems like it's more of the McCoys keeping it going. At this point it seems like it, yeah. No one would allow this marriage. No one would let it happen. Rosanna's brothers were, understandably angry with Johnsy. 

They did that classic brotherly thing of like, you're taking advantage of our sister what are you [01:45:00] doing? Because they know that Rosanna doesn't know what the fuck is going on. Was no one looking for them for hours? 

No one was like, hey, where's my brother, where's my sister? What? So strange. Anyway, whatever. Rosanna's brothers wanted to find Johnsy and hurt him. They just wanted to go after so they were looking and eventually the boys did find John C and Rosanna together They kidnapped John C. I think I feel like it but no in states of undress I want to believe that just because it's more fun, but I can't confirm but nothing about the McCoys or Hatfields can be confirmed So let's just add our own flair to it. 

Well When they were found The McCoy brothers kidnapped Johnsy. They imprisoned him in a hunting cabin on the Kentucky side of the Tug River. The McCoys were able to get Johnsy arrested on some old bootlegging charges. Cause he did do moonshine and that was not allowed at the time. 

Because of this, Rosanna, in a very Romeo Juliet style, she rode through the night into the woods to warn Devalance of what has happened to his [01:46:00] son. And Devalance, along with other half fields, surrounded the McCoy brothers, and they were able to retrieve John 

Without incident. No one's hurt, no one's killed, but this just adds a little fervor to it. Give me my boy back. Okay, here you go. Here comes the inevitable announcement from Rosanna. Oh, God. She's got a seed in her, doesn't she? She's preggers. She's got the devil's grandson in her Well, granddaughter, yeah, in her belly. Yikes. The Hatfields still said no to their marriage, so, If you have a girl that has no home, has no husband, and she's pregnant What do you do with her if she can't get married? 

Send her to a nunnery? Close. Send her to her aunt's. Oh. Yeah. Hours away. So they sent her to her aunt's house to live with, and Jauncey actually ended up marrying Rosanna's cousin Nancy. Yeah. All right. Well, Nancy was only 15 at the time. [01:47:00] So he was set on like marrying a McCoy woman. He really wanted that. 

I guess. I don't really know why. There's not a reason as to why John C and Nancy got married if Nancy wanted to, because the marriage was short. She never had his kid. I don't know. Actually, I didn't look that far, but I don't think so. Very strange. And the McCoys were okay with her marrying Nancy is not a direct, is not a sister to Rosanna. 

she's a cousin. Oh, isn't she, is she the, the daughter of the guy that of old Randy's brother that was killed? Harmon McCoy. Yeah. Harmon. Is she the daughter of Harmon? Okay. Yes, she is. Okay. So the miniseries did get that correct. Yes. it was correct that Nancy is Harmon's daughter. 

Okay. Yes. So she marries into the family that. Killed her dad. Yeah. Oh, don't worry. She comes back around. I love her story. So back to Rosanna She ended up giving birth to a little girl. Her name was Sarah Elizabeth. Mm hmm Sarah [01:48:00] with an H. 

Her baby unfortunately never made it through infancy and Rosanna herself did not have the greatest end. She is said to have died of a broken heart and she passed away before she turned 30. Hmm. And I don't believe she ever saw her family or anyone again. 

Wow. Yeah. There's the end of that line. Love will always get ya. It will. Now, If you just voted and gone home that day at the polling station. If you just vote and go, don't start shit. Don't be shit. Don't start banging people and lying in the polling station. I, that's exactly what happened. 

So after all of this, the feud really starts to escalate, but it's still over the course of a few years. So things are drummed up. Things are still happening. Now. We're fast forwarding two more years to 1882. Okay. Election day again. 

Gotta love it. So again, we're doing a big social gathering, A big to-do, big hoot nanny. Yes. Now, this one, people were drinking. They were [01:49:00] drinking their moonshine, they were getting a little sloppy, they really loved it. 

Now, one person who was drinking quite a bit was Ellison Hatfield, who is a brother of Devil Lance. Okay. So he was drinking quite a bit, getting a little mouthy. Ellison. Some of the McCoy boys were also getting a little mouthy back. Now the McCoy boys meaning Randall's sons. Okay. Ol Randy's baby boys. 

Ol Randy's baby boys. Three of Randall's sons. Tolbert, Farmer, and Randolph, Jr. Tolbert, Farmer, and Randy, Jr. Yeah. Randy, too. Randy, too. They all got into a fight with Ellison. Okay. All four guys are fighting now, and the boys ended up stabbing Ellison 26 times. Jesus. Yeah, this is quite the escalation. Three on one, and they still had to stab him over two dozen times? 

I think I can only imagine they all had a knife. They all had a little knife or something and were just jabbing them, 26 [01:50:00] times. Damn. Yeah, it's crazy. The authorities did apprehend the boys. 

And, but the Hatfield clan, they said, Nope, we're taking them. And they just took them from the officials. Oh. Yep. They said, we want them. And the officials just let them? Yeah I, I think that the Hatfields kind of outnumbered them. Yeah, I think they were like, you know. The Hatfields kept the boys captive in West Virginia. They didn't want them to be on the Kentucky side of things. 

They wanted, they wanted to have them. But the killing, it's, or excuse me, the stabbing of Ellison happened in Kentucky. Yes. Okay, gotcha. That's where the polls happen. Yeah, That's where the stabbing happened and the Hatfields take him out of custody back into their West Virginia stronghold. 

Cross state lines, the whole thing. Lynch mob justice to begin with. Yeah. Federal kidnapping is what Hatfield did. They were holding the boys, waiting to see if Ellison, the brother, was going to pull through or not. He was struggling. He didn't [01:51:00] die immediately. He was struggling and they wanted to see if Ellison lives, so will the boys. 

If Ellison dies, so will they. 

Ellison did eventually pass from his wounds. And Devil Lance Hatfield and his crew, they took the boys just over the river onto the Kentucky side and they tied them up to paw paw bushes. Every account I've read has specified paw paw bushes. 

they tie him up in the woods. They tie him up to these pawpaw bushes, and they lined up their firing squad, and they executed all three boys. It's said that there were over 50 shots fired. Damn. They really went for it. At least they kept, took them over to Kentucky side so they could, be with their family. 

I guess. I don't know, that's the only reasonable thing they did. Don't mess with the devil. After this, shit hit the fucking fan. It, the McCoys were done. They threw 20 indictments atop the heads of 20 Hatfields. They were like, [01:52:00] all of you need to go. Charges, all of this, we're done with you. The McCoys had a lawyer on their side, Mr. 

Perry Klein. Esquire. Yes, he comes back into play. Now, he's also married into the family, in the McCoy family. Perry Kline had really great connections in politics and everything and he was able to push these indictments through. 

Now, the Hatfields knew their land and they knew the surrounding hills. They were able to avoid capture pretty easily. However, Perry Kline also had a personal vendetta against the Hatfields. Kline was involved in a lawsuit against Devil Ants a few years prior over the deed of thousands of acres of land and timber rights. 

Oh, so Hatfield's livelihood. And I'm assuming he won since he still has the timber industry that we know of. Yep, Hatfield won and the Perry Kline just can't get past that. It [01:53:00] makes a lot of sense that Perry Klein would be like, Hey, I'm done with him too. 

Deviance got tired real quick of being on the run and hiding. He was sick of it, so he wanted an end to this feud. He just wanted to be done, so he decided to have some of his men. Ambush Randall and his son, Calvin. Now, Devil Ants was not a part of this posse. 

So when they went. They killed Randall's nephews by mistake. How many? Two nephews? Two nephews. And I'm not sure shot him? Lynched him? Yep, shot him. I'm not sure how that happened. All I know is they killed two nephews by mistake. And then days later, Cap Hatfield and the sons. 

Yep, that's the second oldest son. And Tom Wallace. Who I think is a friend of Cap. They broke into the house of Mary who was the sister of a McCoy. They ended up beating Mary flogging her because they believed that Mary was [01:54:00] telling Jeff Kind of being a spy a little bit like giving him ideas of what the Hatfields are gonna do I don't know how Mary knew these things. 

I'm not too sure but I think if you watch the miniseries that's the story they made it Nancy. Yeah some characters so I do think somehow somewhere along the way someone was a spy and Telling the McCoys what the Hatfields are up to 

It's Mary and unfortunately she gets flogged by Cap and this Tom guy so that snitches get stitches. Yeah, That was a pretty big deal and when Jeff the brother of Mary found out he went after Cap and Tom was able to escape Cap ended up shooting Jeff killing him banks of the Tug River. 

Yes killing him So that raised the stakes even more. After the murder of his nephews, the McCoys stepped up their aggression quite a bit. They started using more of their political connections through Klein. Klein ended up pushing for [01:55:00] bounties to be placed on the heads of the Hatfields. 

Oh, you can just do that back then as a private citizen? That's weird. You could just be like, Hey, I'll pay X amount if you kill or capture this guy. Is he a private citizen if he's acting as their lawyer? A citizen can't just, Hey, I want you. I have a feud against that guy. I'll pay my lawyer to offer a bounty. 

He's got the ear of the political figures, though. He's got their ear, so he bent their ears. Alright, if they're okaying it. Yeah, they okayed it. Yeah, it was his connections, and he said I want bounties on their heads, and they said okay, however that worked, I don't know. 

Very strange, but The stakes got higher. Now that the Hatfields have bounties on their heads, they are fighting for their lives. They're hiding, and it's said that Devil Ants didn't go anywhere without his shotgun for the rest of his life. Yeah. Honestly. This makes sense. Their heads were on a swivel. 

Now this leads us to 1888. Where Devil Ants and the Hatfield clan are [01:56:00] so done of hiding and running. Yeah, they've been hiding in the hills for years now. They just, again, want it to be done. Devil Ants and crew come up with this idea, they decide, to ambush the McCoy household. On New Year's Day in 1888. This is called the New Year's Day Massacre. They ambush a large group ends up creeping up to the McCoy home. Jim Vance and Cap Hatfield were the leaders of this. Jim Vance. The one who started it all. 

Yes. And he's still around. Doing shit. Randall McCoy ended up slipping out the back, thinking that if he was gone, they would leave the women and children alone. How would they know he was gone if they didn't see him leave? The women and children would let them know, Hey, He's not here. 

It's only women and children. You know, You think you still have some of that old chivalry there. That Southern gentleman. Where's that Southern gentleman to be found? Not here. Yep. Not between the McCoys and the Hatfields, that's for [01:57:00] sure. So, the McCoys, sorry not the McCoys, The Hatfields, end up opening fire on the house. 

Like you said, they don't even really wait to listen to anything. They're not listening. They're just firing right into this household and they set the house on fire. A bunch of Pinkertons. 

Yeah, it does feel Pinkerton ly. Our subject isn't home, just blow up his family's house. F it, just go crazy. Randall's wife, Sally. She was severely beaten when she was trying to comfort her dying daughter. Now her daughter, Alifair, was 29 years old at the time, but they all still live together. She was shot in the crossfire when she was trying to flee the home. 

And that's who Sally was comforting? Comforting when she was beaten. Okay. Then their son, Calvin, who was 26 years old, he was also shot and killed during the ambush. So two . Two kids are killed in the ambush. Adults, but kids of McCoy. Yes. Adult children. Now, Sally survived the beating, [01:58:00] but she was never the same. 

Her skull was completely crushed in. It's amazing that she even survived this attack. 

After the New Year's Day massacre, one week later on January 8th, Jim Vance was shot and killed by, frank Phillips. This is a new player in this little feud here, frank Phillips. There was a shootout at Vance's Home, frank Phillips went to Vance's Home where he was wounded and then killed. 

Jim Vance. Jim Vance. Not bad, Frank. Yeah. The miniseries showed the McCoys taking Jim Vance's body and like, holding it up in his coffin and Nancy was like, drinking with it and doing photos. That didn't happen. Okay. I looked into that and I just, I don't know, for any McCoys still out there y'all didn't do that. 

I just don't, that's such a weird thing for the miniseries to put in. It's egregious. For the era, historically, the idea that outlaws and famous figures would be, that, that would happen a lot. Like, that did happen a lot. With the main photograph. [01:59:00] Just, not him specifically. Took some creative liberties to paint the era they were in, if not the actual literal circumstance, but. It did happen a lot. But it did not happen to Jim Vance. There you go. McCoy's did not do that. So now that Jim Vance is dead and we have bad Frank Phillips coming into play here I want to talk about that a little bit. 

So we're gonna go a little bit further January 19th now of 1888 We're just a few weeks after that New Year's Day massacre. Just a few weeks now the Hatfields We're planning yet another retaliation because of Jim Vance But Bad Frank and the McCoys were privy to this, and they ended up meeting the Hatfield posse at Grapevine Creek. 

Grapevine Creek. And now we have the Battle of Grapevine Creek. For a second, Bad Frank Phillips, is he a McCoy by blood? Is he, Is he a hired gunman? Yeah, so Bad Frank Phillips was appointed by the Kentucky governor at the time, Governor Buckner, and he was appointed from he was like a [02:00:00] sheriff's deputy and he got bolstered up to a special envoy to assist in the capture and arrest of the indicted Hatfields. 

Oh, so he's I think Klein had something to do with this. So he's like a specific, he's brought in specifically to do this task. He's brought in to get the Hatfields. So he's like a bounty hunter. So I'm pretty sure Perry Klein was a part of this. Yeah, they dressed his title up. He's a bounty hunter. He's a big time bounty hunter. 

Bad Frank Phillips entered the mix things did get a bit more violent as we can see he already started off hot with that Jim Vance So bad Frank He led a group of McCoy's and supporters to get the Hatfield like McCoy supporters to get the Hatfields and the battle of grapevine Creek Like I said, it occurred January 19th, and it's said to be really the last major skirmish between the families. 

A lot of people think that the New Year's Day massacre is the end of it, but this is really the end of it. There was the capture of eight [02:01:00] Hatfields. During this. Bad Frank really was a bad man. How many, do we know how many were killed? Were any killed or was it all just captured? None were killed, just captured. 

Oh, okay. Now they were charged, tried, and convicted in Pike County, Kentucky. And Bad Frank ended up marrying Nancy McCoy. She has a little redemption there for her family. I think, I mean, fuck it. If she has to choose, I think this is the guy to choose. For her. For her. Not for me. I don't know. So he's a bad man. 

Yeah, bad Frank. Yeah She did end up leaving John C soon after they got married because he just kept running around on her So that's what happened there John C. Yeah So bad Frank and Nancy they fell in love and bad Frank was a hero to the McCoys. They had one child together in 1895 Bad Frank, he died in a gunfight in 1898 at the age of 36. 

Only 36, huh? He was only 36, yeah. And then Nancy died of [02:02:00] tuberculosis three years after Frank. And she was also 36, though, when she died. Well, I thought that was just interesting. So now we're going to get into the trial. 

Of the eight Hatfields that Bad Frank captured in Grapevine Creek. The eight members of the Hatfield clan were hauled off to jail. And because of all of this feuding and this back and forth, the trial took a while to get ready. It took. A year before there was a trial because they need to wade through all these other things that were happening. 

So the trial began in 1889 and this actually went all the way up to the Supreme Court. Oh, which a lot of people don't really know. It's interesting because West Virginia sued for the release of the Hatfields. Because they were captured in grapevine Creek. 

And I did not look up where Grapevine Creek is. All right, now we know Grapevine Creek is in West Virginia. Damn, [02:03:00] I thought I looked everything up. You got me. McCoy's. Captured the Hatfields in West Virginia and took them into Kentucky for their trial. Okay, gotcha. That's, all right, so I can see the groundwork for why the Supreme Court would get in this. 

The Supreme Court's decision was that it was fair to only put on trial the Hatfields that were already in custody. They basically were like, listen y'all, be fucking done. 

Deal with these eight that you have and just let it go. Let it go. We're all done with this shit. Just be done with it. After the trial, seven of the Hatfields were sentenced to life in prison. And the final person was sentenced to death by hanging. And that last person, unfortunately, was Ellison Cottontop Hatfield. 

Was he named after her? His dad that got stabbed 26 times. Yes, and Cottontop, if you did watch the miniseries or are going to, he [02:04:00] is He's depicted correctly. He's slower. Yes he doesn't really understand what's going on. And this is the sad part of the feud. He wouldn't be put to death today. Except in Texas. 

 They execute people who are challenged all the time. Every day. But, yes Ellison, Cotton Top. He was viewed as a scapegoat as like a sacrificial lamb sort of thing. And he was hanged in Kentucky. Now, public executions were not legal at this time. 

However, thousands of people still showed up to the hanging of Ellison of Cotton Top Hatfield. And he was hanged on February 18th, 1890. reports claim that his final words were, They made me do it. The Hatfields made me do it. And that's probably the truth. It doesn't sound like he had the wherewithal or capacity to [02:05:00] orchestrate this. 

Clearly he was just to put a gun in his hand and put it in the right direction. No, I do believe he was the one that shot Alafair, like it was in the miniseries. I do believe he did shoot her, but he didn't know what he was doing or why he was doing it. It's not the same culpability as the ones who organized the plan. 

He was told to do it. And that. Ends all of the back and forth now as the feud fades away Everyone just retreated Randall McCoy became a ferry operator in 1914 and he died at the age of 88 from burns that he got in an accidental cooking fire 

Yeah, that sucks to make it that old. Yeah, I hate hearing about that. And then you just get the worst death possible. I hate that. You made it so far and then, God. People say that he was haunted by the death of his children for the rest of his life. Several of them were killed in the feud. 

Yeah, five of them were killed during the feud. Three were shot in those pawpaw bushes. And then Calvin and Alifer were shot in the massacre. So then Sally McCoy, they're not exactly sure when she died, but [02:06:00] they think 1889 or 1890. After she survived the attack from her skull being crushed in, she was never the same. 

And we're pretty sure that she was sent to a mental hospital, and she most likely died there. They ended up, losing those five children. So now, Devil Ants, he, bought some land in a remote location and he just, he was always a little paranoid after that. 

He took special measures to avoid capture. He was always hunted for revenge, money, I think the law was still after him for certain things. But. No one's really going for him anymore. I don't really think so. 

Interestingly enough though, devil Ants was baptized when he was older in 1911. Hitching his bet says death's nearing. I think so because when he was younger, he was once quoted as saying, I belong to no church unless you say, I belong to the one great church of the world, if you like. You can say it is the Devil's Church I belong to. 

In [02:07:00] 1921, Devil Ants Hatfield did die of pneumonia in his home, and he was 81 years old. 

Wow. After his death, his family made a marble statue that still stands today of him. Apparently, the statue is on Island Creek. Oh yeah, that's where his little remote location was. That's cute. In Logan County, West Virginia. 

Sometimes my brain just goes, I don't need to know that, and I stop. His home play site. Is still able to be visited and everything. Yeah. Oh, wow. Maybe we should do a little trip. We'll see. There's some other things down there we can look at too. Levisie Hatfield. His wife. She also died of pneumonia, but she died in 1929 at the age of 86. Wow. none of their children were actually killed during the feud. Jim Vance was killed. Ellison Hatfield was murdered. 

Was the brother of Devil. Yeah, the Hatfields did more killing. Yeah, and they went for the jugular when [02:08:00] they did it. They were rich. Yeah, richer Yeah, I guess I don't say they're rich but they But better off tragedy still did strike a little after the feud two sons of the Hatfields Troy and Elias They were killed in 1911 by a drunk minor 

Now the oldest son John C. He also died early in 1922 in his cabin and that's all I could find. I don't know how he died and He was a part of the New Year's Day Massacre. 

He was supposed to do life in prison, but he only served 13 years. And then he was released. So I'm sure there was something. he died in 1922. Their mom did end up outliving three of her children still. When you have 13 or 16, it's bound to happen. Now fast forward to 2003. 

There was an honorary peace treaty signed between the descendants of the Hatfields and McCoys. it was kinda cute. And this signified the official ending of the feud, and it serves as a reminder of how far both families have come. Wouldn't it be funny [02:09:00] if just something happened that sparked it up again? 

Like I don't know, anything. Just anything modern. Just, something new. Some new cause. Doesn't, it could be a contemporary modern cause, but just happens to be between those two families. That'd be amazing. The sequel. Now we have all the facts the stories anyway, the legends. And, what we do know is the feud started in 1865 with the killing of Harmon, Or 1878 with the theft of a hog. 

The country was changing. They didn't like each other. Yeah, they just didn't like each other. And later on in life, like years and years later with genetic testing, we also discovered that the McCoys have a genetic disorder that could have helped with this. 

It's called Von Hippel Lindau disease. Okay. And this causes a tumor like mass to sit on their adrenal glands, and the adrenal glands produce adrenaline when you need it. But when there's a [02:10:00] tumor like mass sitting on it, you're always having adrenaline pumping through you. So you're in a heightened and emotional responses are gonna be more severe Absolutely. 

And so when something does happen in your adrenal glands release more adrenaline, they are like pumped up with it They're going all the way So some people are theorizing that that was a factor as well that the McCoys just couldn't fucking let go The Hatfields did more killing, though. 

It did more killing. That's how I viewed it, too. It's a family killing a bunch of people who have problems. Yeah. Honestly, who really knows what happened. It was most likely the perfect storm of all of these factors with some internal personal issues. All of it. Oh, also, if you've been listening this whole time, The phrase, The Real McCoy, has nothing to do with the McCoy family, just so everyone knows. 

I once looked up the history of that phrase independently, and no one really knows. There's two [02:11:00] theories. Yeah, there's theories, But like, we can't state definitively. One of them is that some person named McCoy that's not in this feud or anything, he invented something, and he patented it, and people that want it say, I want The Real McCoy. 

Whatever. The other one is there's a Scottish whiskey called Mackay, and back in the day, it was an older whiskey, and people were asking for the real Mackay during Prohibition time, and then it just turned into the real McCoy. Either way, it doesn't have anything to do with this family, and it was hurting my brain not knowing that, so I just thought I'd let you guys know that too. 

Now a little fun thing if you want, is you can go down to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, if you want to see the Hatfield and McCoy Dinner Feud. Is it like Medieval Times or something like that? Yeah, yep. So they will do like a little song and dance and a show and it's comedic, I think, from what I saw on the website. 

And you get to have dinner and everything. So if you're ever in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, check it out. It looks a lot of fun. 

I looked into it quite a bit, [02:12:00] because I want to go. We're going to go one day, and if you've already been, please let us know, because they have cool things that are called like Feud and Fried Chicken and Pulled to Pieces Pork Barbecue. It sounds hilarious and great. And again, that's Hatfield and McCoy Dinner Feud. 

If you do go to it, and you want to tell me about it, you can email me at borrowed bones podcast at gmail. com. I'd really like to hear about it. And if you have any ideas, we're just getting started with this. So send some suggestions, family lores. 

Colts, family dynamics, all of it. I'd really like that. I will have all of my sources in the show notes. I hope everyone enjoys them. If you like research and as much as I do, have a good day, everyone. We don't have a sign off yet. We're working on it. Yeah. I'm just going to say goodbye. 

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