The Galvin Family: Part 1

A family of 12 children struggles with mental illness when 6 of the boys are diagnosed with schizophrenia.  

Transcript

 Hello, everyone. Hello I'm Sarah, and I'm Cole, and you're listening to Borrowed Bones, a podcast about families and familial relationships. Whether you are related by blood or by bond, we can all agree that families bring us up and tear us down. We're here to dust off those bones and uncover what's been hidden away. 

Today, we are talking about the Galvin family from Colorado. Galvin family, I'm not familiar with them. They had, um, a documentary out, I believe on HBO Max not too long ago. 

I think it was the, Six Schizophrenic Brothers. Oh, I remember seeing the ads for that. Yeah, a lot of the HBO documentaries just put me off when I see Oh, it's 10 episodes instead of a two hour movie, and I'm like, eh, I have no idea how many episodes or if it is even episodic. I did not watch it, so I just know that there is a documentary about them, and I thought they sounded interesting, and so [00:01:00] I wanted to look into them. 

Okay, this will be our first two parter episode, I would like to just get right into it. there's a lot of children, a lot of moving parts and they're all affected by mental illness. 

 Right up at the top, we are talking about schizophrenia, other mental illnesses as well. There is murder, suicide, some sexual assault, as well as some violence towards animals. Okay. What I write about on a daily basis, then. 

Yes, as a crime reporter, this might be unfortunately, too familiar for you. Mm hmm. We're gonna start with the mom and the dad. Mom is Mimi. Mimi. She was born in 1924, born in Houston, Texas. When her mother and father divorced, she was five years old. 

wow. Divorce in that era. Yes. She moved to New York after her parents got divorced with her mom. Yes with her mom and she had a stepfather Okay, so mom [00:02:00] remarried. Mm hmm. We're gonna move on to the dad of the Galvins now His name is Don He was born in 1924 as well He was born in Jamaica, Queens County, New York. 

Okay, Jamaican Queens. Mm hmm. They Shameless plug for a good former band from Detroit called Jamaican Queens 2. Oh! They're defunct now though, but uh, yeah, still up on Bandcamp and Spotify. Go dig it. Oh, okay, nice. So no live shows, but you can look at their old stuff. Yeah, good stuff. All right, cool Don and Mimi they were high school sweethearts, and they were married in 1944 They had their first son Donald jr. In 1945 and They ended up having 12 kids. 

Okay. So Catholic family, I'm guessing? Yes. With that many children. Okay. Mimi, converted to Catholicism for Don. Okay. And by, oh, yeah. I guess her parents would be weird if. They got divorced in the 20s. Right. so [00:03:00] Mimi, I don't know what she was raised as, what her religion was, or if she had one, but she did convert to Catholicism when marrying Don, and then followed and practiced Catholicism pretty religiously. 

Hence the 12 kids she created. Yes. So Donald Jr., born in 1945. Jim was the second. He was born in 1947. John was born at the end of 1949. Brian came along in 1951. Michael was then born in 1953. Richard. was born in 54. Joe was born in 1956. Mark was born in 1957. 

Matthew was born in 1958. Peter is the final son. Okay. And he was born in November of 1960. That's number 10, right? Number 10. Okay, so 10 boys in a row. Yes. [00:04:00] Okay. And then we have our first little girl, Margaret, in 1961. And then the twelfth and final child is Mary, born in 1965. I guess all the masculine sperm got wore out around number ten. 

Yeah, I guess so, but Mimi finally got her little girls. We are going to focus on six of the brothers. Like I said earlier, six of them have schizophrenia. Mary is also a big part of the story, but she does not have schizophrenia. She's the youngest, she does come back in a strong way here at the end. 

So six have and six, do not have? Yes. Okay. The six brothers that do have schizophrenia are Donald, Jim, Brian, Joseph, Matthew, and Peter. Okay. And forgive me, there's a lot of names. Those aren't all sequential, right? There's some in between who do not have it. Correct. Okay, so it's not the first six, and then, okay, gotcha. 

Yeah. Don't break your brain too much on trying to keep track of all of them. If [00:05:00] you lose track, it's okay. We're just looking at the story and we're going to talk about how schizophrenia can really permeate through a family and affect everyone in that family. 

If you have it or not., the Galvan family. When they had their first son, Donald, in 1945, they were living in an apartment in Forest Hills, New York. Mimi was alone with her son, 

Donald for the first six months. 

While Don, the dad, was in the South Pacific, he was in the Navy at the time, and he returned just after Christmas. Don, settled for a little bit after his return. He was working as a security officer in New Jersey. And then after only three months, Don was off again to Washington, D. C. To finish his bachelor's degree. 

Okay, 

Now we're in the summer of 1947, okay fast forwarding a little bit Mimi gives birth to their second son Jim A few weeks after Jim's birth, Don he moved the whole [00:06:00] family to Newport, Rhode Island, so that he could attend the Navy's General Line School. Then, he moved his family again just one year later. 

They ended up being in Norfolk, Virginia, where Don served on multiple naval ships. Right, so Don's moving and grooving, he's going everywhere for the Navy, he's going to places like New York, Panama, Trinidad, Puerto Rico, all over the Caribbean, while Mimi is at home with her kids. 

Event, okay. So is he like wonder if he's gonna be a career Navy guy or this yes, okay He does make a career out of the military there for no four years or whatever No, he is a military man through and through mm hmm So while Mimi's at home with the kids She was scraping by money was pretty tight with the two kids and she only was receiving 35 a week from the Navy And in today's terms, that's about 450 a week. 

Only 1, 800 a month. That's kind of tight with [00:07:00] a family to support you should probably check the inflation rate before this episode drops because it's probably going to be worth more than that in a day or two. Yes, as of now. Check again on Wednesday. So Don's out living his dreams, going everywhere, working on his military career, traveling, and Mimi is just at home. 

She did have dreams and ambitions before marrying him, but now she's a woman, so she's missing out on it all now. It doesn't pay to be a woman with hopes and dreams in that era. Her hope was that Don would go to law school and that the family would move to New York where their families were. However, again, Don wanted that military career. 

He was really great at schmoozing, rubbing elbows with the right people. Mimi was a good dutiful wife and she went to all of the parties and social outings with Don. Don was, I don't know how else to say this other than he was running around on Mimi during this time. She was being [00:08:00] everything she needed to be and he still wanted more. 

, , he took up an affair with another officer's wife. Yeah, he, you know, Mimi, knew about it, but she knew she couldn't do anything about it. So that's happening in the background, just to give an idea of what's going on. Mimi and Don never divorce. 

but it was, it was there in the background now their third son, John, he was born in 1949. We're forwarding a little bit. And Don was not home when John was born. He was with the Navy, and at this time, they were anticipating a war in Korea. 

Yeah, this was around the cusp of the Korean War. Yes. Mimi, however, she was done. She was over it, she finally said, I will not stand for this, and she wanted Don to be home and out of the Navy. I mean, the Navy's not A job you can just quit. Like, What? At least as I know. You can't just quit the military because it doesn't fit. 

On January 23rd, 1950, [00:09:00] Don gave his notice. And in it, he stated, Quote, Deprivation of a wholesome family life is reason enough for my resignation. Oh. So he was an officer. Yes. Not a, okay, enlisted man then, alright. And that quote I received, I just wanted to give a shout out real quick, from this book that I read. 

 I encourage everyone to go read it. It is called Hidden Valley Road. It is written by Robert Kolker. K. O. L. K. E. R. I just checked it out at my local library. So I suggest you either use your library or go ahead and buy it to support the author. 

But he did a great job of writing everything about this family in great detail as well as giving a very in depth history of schizophrenia and how we deal with it today. I really encourage everyone to go read it. 

So, Don ends up resigning from the military, the Navy, and Mimi thought, now this is the time we'll move to New York, we'll be close to our [00:10:00] family, however Did he have another career lined up? Don had another idea. Don's brother recently became an officer in the newly established U. S. Air Force. Yes. So he made a lateral move. 

Right? Mm hmm. I'm not going to sea. I'm going to the air, babe. Mm hmm. The Air Force didn't become its own military branch until 1947, so it's still only three years old at this time. . November 27th, 1950. It had only been 10 months since Don left the Navy and now he's joining the Air Force. Mimi was very upset with Don's decision, but Don assured her that they would still move to New York and have the same life that she was promised. He just wouldn't be a lawyer. 

And he was telling the truth, because Don had to complete training in Long Island anyway. Oh, alright. So It was the best of both worlds. Yeah. They saved up for a house, and they put a deposit down, and [00:11:00] then The Air Force decided to make a switch. They told Don that the Air Force headquarters would now be in Colorado Springs, Colorado. 

They had to move. Isn't that where Mimi was originally from? No. Right? Was Mimi originally from Colorado? Mm mm. Houston and then New York. They're both from New York, really. Yeah. Alright. I don't know where I got Colorado in my head. Anyway. Up top, I said the Galvin family from Colorado. Because this family really is from Colorado. 

The family. Yes. So, they ended up getting their deposit back. Don went ahead and he moved first to Colorado Springs in early 1951. Alright. Mimi and the kids followed soon after on Valentine's Day. She still just has the three boys. Once Mimi settled into her new surroundings and her new life, she came to enjoy the scenery and the bird watching. 

Don and Mimi would then begin to train falcons together. Just an interesting thing, and a quick little [00:12:00] side note, I don't, I don't really advocate it because it's a little rough to hear about how they train them. Yeah. It's like a Stockholm Syndrome sort of thing. 

The only other famous person I know who does it regularly is RFK, so let that sit in. Okay. Okay. Okay. If he's a junior. Yeah. They both have holes in their heads. Okay, so Don Galvin and Mimi, enjoyed , falconry together and this is something that they ended up bonding over and Don Galvin was actually the one to suggest to the Air Force that the falcon be the mascot. 

And it became the official mascot in 1955 and still is to this day. . I was going to ask, is it? Yes. No, it is. And still today. That's neat to me. Moving on. The two older boys, Donald and Jim, they now were old enough to go to school while the younger one, John, stayed home. Mimi then had her fourth child, Brian, in 1951. 

, a couple years [00:13:00] later, Michael comes along in 1953. There are now five boys total. At this point, both Don's family and Mimi's family were suggesting that they slow down than having kids here. But because Mimi converted to Catholicism, she wanted to prove that she was the best Catholic mom there was. 

Don was a typical 1950s dad. He, you know, he liked his family, but he couldn't handle being around them too much. 

He wanted a family, but only part of the time. Pretty much, yeah. Wasn't that every dad back then? The armchair dad, I guess, is what you would call it. Comes home from work, has the wife fix him a scotch. Sits, I'm not saying he drank, I'm just giving the, like, the stereotypical. 

Mm hmm. Don was transferred to a base in Quebec from 1954 to 1955, and then he spent three years at Hamilton Air Force Base in California. He did take his family with him during this, since it was quite like a few years. [00:14:00] Yeah. Oh, nice. You can come, babe. And then eventually the family returns to Colorado Springs for good this time in 1958. 

Alright. upon their return, they brought back three more boys! Ugh. Richard, who was born in 1954, Joe, who was born in 1956, and Mark, born in 1957. 

They're really good at sex. Yeah, Mimi did make a joke that when Don was traveling everywhere with the Navy and the Air Force and all that, that he would come home just long enough to get me pregnant. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. With all these boys, 

Mimi had to run a tight ship. She would say phrases like, Pretty is as pretty does, when she would refer to cleaning, or Tattletale tit, your tongue shall be split, and all the dogs in the town shall have a little bit. When the kids would tell on other people, instead of just calling them a tattletale, she had this very [00:15:00] long thing to say. 

I never got, like, when parents discouraged Tattletales. Don't you want to have an inside guy telling you what the other imps are doing? Like, why would you discourage, like, Stitches get stitches. Why are you telling your own kid that? , don't you want them to tell you what's going on? Yeah, it, you know, it may be better instead of saying some, coming from two people who do not have children, mind you. 

 But maybe, maybe teach your children to come to you with information and then if it's something that they could have handled on their own or it's not a big deal, like, he said purple was a bad color. Well then just tell your kid, listen, you don't have to tell me that. 

Tell him that it's a good color. Anywho, Mimi was the type of mom that wanted everything and everyone to be perfect. She would Require that when you made your bed, there was a quarter that could bounce off of it. She would run her finger over, , the table or the shelving after you dusted it. She would check your work. So she's a perfectionist who's about to get a rude awakening. 

Mm [00:16:00] hmm. Now, by 1958, the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs had opened. Mm hmm. Don was excited to start his new role as an instructor at the academy, and the family was given a house on the academy grounds. The house was just big enough for all of them. There were four bunk beds in the basement for all eight boys. 

But then, their ninth son Matthew was born. Another child, another boy. Now at this point, the oldest, Donald, is 13 years old. The dad, Don, he began referring to his kids as numbers. Saying, number six, come over here, and things like that. Now, 

Don began to work on his Ph. D. Taking away the little time he spent with his kids. Mimi wasn't the happiest about this 'cause it seemed a little superfluous in her mind and she needed a lot of help at home. 

Who told her to expect happiness as a woman in America? In [00:17:00] that era. In any era. 

The first born Donald was an all American kid. . He was doing things like parachuting out of C 47s with the Air Explorer Scouts. Oh. I didn't know what the Air Explorer Scouts were. Is that like ROTC for like Air Force? I mean. Yeah, it's, I looked it up and it's described as an aeronautics program for older boys interested in the Air Force. 

And it lasted from 1949 Is that still around? Nope. Not anymore. Somebody probably jumped up without a chute and got sued and they shut it down. It seems a little dangerous to have children flying out of, you know, airplanes and stuff. But he also studied classical guitar, he did judo, played hockey, he would even rappel down cliffs with his dad. 

He was all state in football and he took state in his weight class in wrestling. Donald was, yeah, an all American, all star kid. A little bit of Canadian in there, this time in Quebec and becoming a hockey player. Mmm, yeah. The whole family was very into hockey. They were a big [00:18:00] hockey family. However, Donald was quiet and secluded. 

He got, , average grades, and he didn't really connect well with others. Donald acted as an extreme authority figure toward his younger brothers when he was home. it didn't take very long for his brothers to become fearful of him. By age 17, Donald smashed ten dishes all at once while standing in the kitchen. 

Alright, now I'm pic No, you're not gonna know this, but I'm picturing two different visuals. Either he's picking up ten plates one at a time and smashing them, or he's got a stack of ten and just drops them all at once. I don't know which one's more impressive. Right, I I don't know, I think it was him holding a stack of them and then slamming them all down. 

 Not the fine china. When his parents were gone, Donald would stage fistfights, with his brothers. Or he would have two brothers hold down a third brother while Donald hit him. Don and Mimi just assumed if There's no tattletales in [00:19:00] that family. 

Yeah, she kind of trained them to not tell. Even when they did though, Don and Mimi, they assumed it was the classic boys will be boys bullshit, and they just kind of let it happen. And it's really sad because I, read certain interviews with some of the brothers, , they all remember Donald being this terrifying figure. 

And it's sad for Donald because he doesn't know what he's battling with internally at this point. 

Now the second born, Jim, he was a bit more of a James Dean vibe. Quick question, is his real name Jim or is it James. It's James. Okay. I'm just curious. Joe is Joseph. Okay. Yeah. Sometimes I've seen people who have Their name is Jimmy and Oh no. Mimi was biblical with it. Okay. Mm hmm. Now the second born Jim, like I said, was more James Dean, Marlon Brando kind of type. 

He wore a leather jacket. He drove a fast car. He was considered cool by all of his other siblings, but [00:20:00] they still thought he was a bit strange. Yeah. James Dean and Marlon Brando were The archetype is strange. I mean, Jim, he would hit on the girls that his younger brothers would bring around. He never really minded being menacing or making others feel uncomfortable. 

There was also a large amount of competition between Donald and Jim. Jim felt he could never be as good as Donald. Eventually, the boys, could not control their anger and frustration. They began fighting even when their parents were home. 

, one time, Don, The dad tackled Donald to stop him from hurting his brothers. 

So now the dad is getting physical in order to stop his oldest son. Better late than never. Yeah, I guess. At this point, Don doesn't know what to do with his sons. He's trying to help them by giving them books to read, such as The Power of Positive Thinking. I knew you would like that. How to [00:21:00] Win Friends and Influence People. 

I know it wasn't written yet, but only if you had the art of the deal. Don didn't know what to do. He was just struggling to keep his boys from killing each other. They just tried all this self help stuff and none of it worked. So then Don just said, Okay, fine. Here are some boxing gloves. At the very least, if you fight, fight with these on. 

Be constructive with it. None of it really works, though. 

Now, the tenth the tenth and final son, Peter, was born in 1960. Then soon after Peter, Mimi was pregnant again with her eleventh child, which would be Margaret, born in 1962. And now, fall of 1963, the Galvins move just outside of Colorado Springs because they're too big to live in that little house. They move to Hidden Valley Road, which is the book that I referenced earlier. 

 We have a title. Mm hmm. And the family members, the siblings, the kids, they do [00:22:00] refer to their house as Hidden Valley, Hidden Valley Road. So when I reference their home, I may say Hidden Valley. Right. 

Understood. It is now 1963 and Donald begins his freshman year at Colorado State. He wants to become a doctor. Jim is moving up as the eldest son in the house now and he just became more mischievous and he would often skip school and he did whatever he wanted. 

He didn't have Donald there anymore to beat him into submission. Jim. Jim was eventually kicked out of the Air Force Academy. All of the kids went to the Air Force Academy, and Jim got kicked out, and was forced to attend a Catholic private school. Oh. Like, what does it say about your religion when, like, it's used as a punishment? 

Like, oh, you're misbehaving? Well, more religion for you! It might have been the only school that would take him because you have to pay to get someone in there and, you know, schools don't say no to money. Who does? The twelfth and final child was finally born, married, the [00:23:00] second girl, the last child, in 1965. 

After So, twelve, no, twenty one years of giving birth. Yes. The first one was forty four? They were married in forty four. Okay, so forty five. Donald was born in forty five. So, twenty years of Pregnancy, 

after Mary was born in 1965, Mimi got a hysterectomy at the request of her doctor. Her doctor really tried to have her stop having kids I think three children ago or maybe four and Finally, with the birth of Mary, she decided to listen to her doctor and stop, 

 The doctor really wanted to make sure she was done, so she got a hysterectomy. in 1966, Don retired from the Air Force, and he began a new career as sort of the PR person for the Air Force. 

He became a liaison between the private and public sector. He would also highlight and bring in the arts. This is something that he really enjoyed. The whole family [00:24:00] was into the arts. They liked the classical music, played instruments. So Don brought in orchestras, ballets, and symphonies. He formed Ballet West in Aspen. 

At this point, Donald and Jim are both in college, and the children that were still living at home would often travel with the parents to Aspen for all of these concerts and ballets. 

The one who went with them the most was Margaret. She was the penultimate child. She Would go the most because she was still young enough to not really be too involved in school yet But she was old enough that she was easily Traveled with the boys that were still at home were in high school now and they were very invested in sports school They couldn't miss practice things like that 

Now everything was looking pretty good Everyone from the outside thought that the Galvins were this perfect Catholic family, but behind the scenes But behind closed doors. Yeah, behind closed [00:25:00] doors. Donald and Jim, whenever they'd come home, they would just fight at every visit. The holidays would always end up in bruises. 

Was it just the two of them fighting each other, or were they fighting kind of, anyone who would take them up on the offer? It was mainly the two of them, but they would just fight any if the other brothers chimed in. Oh, they were going to get taken down. Yes, they're going for it. Now, let's talk about Donald's college experience a little bit. 

Let's in the beginning of Donald's sophomore year, 1964. He made his first visit to the health center on campus. He needed treatment for his thumb from a cat bite. They found this interesting because he didn't have a cat. Oh, right. So they were like, okay, we'll treat this. And then kind of move along. 

Now, the following spring, Donald returned to the health center and he asked them if he was able to catch syphilis from his roommate by accident. Doesn't. I mean, does anybody who gets syphilis get it by [00:26:00] accident? yeah, but remember, this is kind of a simple thought though, and Donald wants to be a doctor. 

Yeah, that's a very Right. He's not making certain connections he doesn't really get germ theory at this point. Right. Now, in April of 1965, Donald visits the health center for a third time. He had a back sprain from visiting home and getting hit from behind by his brother, so he stayed in the infirmary that night. 

Now in the fall of 1965, Donald returned to the health center again with burns. He said that his sweater caught fire at a pep rally, but in reality, we discovered that he jumped into a bonfire. Oh. Eventually, the college staff pulled Donald out of classes and sent him in for a psyche eval. 

. Yeah, that makes sense. Donald saw a clinical psychologist at the Air Force Academy, , 

he had four visits with him within the first month. And , this is the first time that Donald is [00:27:00] seeking professional help and it's 1966 and he's like, he's 20, 21, 21, she's born in 45 and now it's 66, yeah. And the psychologist said that he saw no signs of a thinking disorder and he gave the green light to go back to school. 

Donald could have hidden things could have said the right words dad might have talked to him and said hey Let's get him back in school. Who knows what happened there, but the 60s they weren't really Trying that hard to figure it out. Now. It's early 1966 and Donald returns to college , and he begins a relationship with someone. Things move very quickly, and they were talking marriage early on. When they broke up, Donald was very torn up by it. He ended up accruing long distance phone bills when trying to call her. He did this so much that he was unable to pay his rent. 

Damn. 

By the fall of 1966, Donald found a fruit cellar and [00:28:00] stayed there for a few months. Like just an abandoned, unkept fruit cellar. Yes. Yep. He thought that's enough shelter. It's good enough. I'm going to stay here. Donald then went to the campus health center with yet another cat bite. 

That sent off more alarms I'm sure because again, he doesn't have a cat and all these other things that he's come in for They send him in for a full evaluation by a psychiatrist Donald was more honest with these doctors this time around and he spoke about running through the bonfire He also spoke about Wrapping a cord around his neck at one point, and he also said how he priced out caskets at a funeral home. 

And he didn't really know why he did any of these things. He couldn't explain why he had those compulsions. He also admitted to having a notion to murdering one of his professors. And he had a fantasy of [00:29:00] killing someone at a football game. Oh. Okay. He then confided in them and said that he had two suicide attempts at the age of 12. 

Okay. So he's being very honest at this point. We're going to talk about these two cats now a little more in depth. Oh, there are cats. The two cats that bit him. Okay, well I didn't know if they actually Oh no, those cat bites were real. He just didn't own cats. Yeah, he just got bit by two of them. . Donald did have a cat, he says, live with him for two days. So he brought in a cat, and then he saw another cat, and brought in that cat. So now he has two cats, and things began to smell, according to Donald. 

This is Donald's story. , because of the smell, Donald slowly and painfully killed the cat. He says that he tortured it. He doesn't know why he tortured the cat, and he was upset in retelling it, and he seemed pretty remorseful. 

Okay. The [00:30:00] doctor wrote in his notes, possible schizophrenic reaction, possible danger to himself and others. The doctors are finally, literally, taking note. Donald would also speak of God, and he said that people from the CIA were looking for him. He would yell, Get down! They're shooting at us! And by the end of 1966, a doctor at Colorado State said it was impossible for Donald to finish school until he's had more evaluation and more treatment. 

His parents finally came to visit Donald for the first time, and they found him washing his hair with beer. They took him home after seeing this. Oh, don and Mimi did not know what to do. The nearest state mental hospital was an hour away in Pueblo. Pueblo State Hospital was best known for treating schizophrenia with insulin coma therapy. 

Okay, I'm not familiar with that. I wasn't either. I wasn't sure if you knew what this was or not. I'm assuming just by the name that [00:31:00] they inject you with more, with insulin, even if you're not a diabetic, which would put you into a coma. Yeah. I don't know why they would think that would help schizophrenia, or anything, like, whatever. 

Right. They would pump you up with enough insulin to put you into a coma, and then they'd bring you out of it by giving the patient sugar or food. And the patients that went through this, they said that it was torture. They can't remember things very well , but what they do remember is the taste of blood. 

Nausea, memories of being strapped down to a bed, biting their tongues, and more. , a few people that are famous that have gone through this. One is John Nash, the inspiration for A Beautiful Mind. Oh, yeah. He underwent the treatment, and he called it torture. also, singer songwriter Townes Van Zandt. Hmm. 

He was subject to insulin coma therapy when he was a teenager, at the University of Texas in Galveston. So yeah, it didn't really help much, like you said, so we [00:32:00] don't do that anymore. I don't know when it stopped, but again, medical professional, but it seems random like insulin cures diabetes. These guys don't have diabetes, but what if we just knocked him out with it and didn't just give him some cookies and see how they feel with it? 

Nope, still got schizophrenia. Only now it's worse. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right, so Mimi probably thought similar things, as well as Dawn. Eventually Pueblo State Hospital did get rid of that treatment and, a lot of the, the kids with schizophrenia in the Galvin family did go to Pueblo State Hospital. 

 So when I talk about it in the future, they are not going through insulin coma therapy. They, they did not do that. Have they tried not being schizophrenic? Yeah, exactly. That's probably what the doctor said. 

Have you tried just smiling a little more? Going outside? Take a walk? Those things help a little, sure. But not everything. Okay. , they didn't want Donald going through that treatment over in Pueblo and they also [00:33:00] weren't really quite ready to Have anyone know about this and if he was admitted to a state hospital People would know about it and they would see that something's wrong and they didn't want their reputations to be threatened I always wonder like there's like what people know about this back then like there's no internet 

If he's not home, you can just make up any story to your neighbors. Like, oh, he's on vacation. Who's gonna know? I would think that communities are simply smaller at that time, everyone you interact with, you have to interact with. In person and so they're gonna notice if Donald's all of a sudden home from college and ask why is he home? 

What is he doing? Then they're gonna notice that he has these stints of not being home But then coming back more busybody because people are more bored I would play the fact that I have 12 and I mean eventually one or two years gonna lose count of like Well, we're not in the 1800s 

we're in the 60s, so losing children is kind of out of fashion now. literally losing, but I mean like if I'm the neighbor and [00:34:00] I, I mean, I'm not keeping track of all 12 coming and going into the house. You're not a stay at home housewife in the 60s with no internet and no cable. 

That's all I'm saying. So instead of dealing with the issues appropriately, Don and Mimi, they called a family friend who had connections. The frand, the frand, the frand, the frand wrote a letter to Colorado State University on Donald's behalf, stating that he's fine to come back. He just had some bad breaks recently he just hadn't really recovered from them. 

the mental state that he was in was just situational, and now he's worked through it, and everything is fine. The excuse was that he had a rough housing situation. He went through a breakup, and he was going to have to study for finals. Every college student deals with love. 

Lost loves finals being poor and not affording housing. Everyone deals with that. They probably don't have 11 other [00:35:00] siblings to compete with. Right, but those things all I'm saying is he needs extra help. Because there's something extra going on there. He's a victim in this. 

I'm just saying that the resources were spread so thin. You can't First twelve of anything, you can't focus on any one too much. Right. Like, you just can't. And with Donald being the oldest, they were probably ready for him to move out. So there was a little more breathing room at home. 

Not in like a negative way, just Okay, you're done, now we can move on and go down the line. . However, Donald was allowed to go back to school with the caveat that he had regular evaluations. At least there was that. They were keeping an eye on him. 

Donald began dating someone named Jean, and she was studying to get her PhD. They quickly got engaged, just like the first girlfriend. And in May of 1967, one month before their wedding, Donald was regularly visiting campus psychiatrists, and he seemed to be doing well. 

, and [00:36:00] they did get married. In the summer of 1967. 

That's his , early years there as a young adult. We are going to jump over to the second oldest son now, Jim. He attended a local junior college for a year after high school, then transferred to the University of Colorado in Boulder. This is now 1965 for him. Jim meets Kathy. He was 20, Kathy was 19, they began dating, and then Kathy got pregnant. 

 Naturally, Jim asked her to marry him, and Jim and Kathy were married in August of 68, one year after Donald and Jean. Jim and Kathy move into a house downtown, and Jim would invite his siblings over, but never Donald. Kathy gave birth to a son, she named him Jimmy, after Jim. Jim then dropped out of college and he became a bartender. He really enjoyed being a bartender, he was a high [00:37:00] end, I'm gonna, I'm gonna call him a mixologist, is probably what he would be considered today. You wanna laugh, cause that's how I consider myself. Yeah. You can call me a bartender, I'm not that asshole that's like, only a mixologist, but. 

I am a mixologist. Will it get me drunk? That's what I want to know when I order a drink. Yes, and I'll tell you about the fresh juices and syrups that I made as well. And you're gonna listen and you're gonna like it. Anyway. 

, as Jim was bartending and enjoying that high end bartending lifestyle, it gave him plenty of opportunity to run around on Kathy. Now, Kathy, one time, she realized that he was out at that moment with someone, so she interrupted the date with the other woman and, yelled at him and got really upset. 

But she didn't leave him for that. When Kathy realized how much she was getting cheated on and she was sort of having Jim run around on her and he wasn't treating her well, she said, I'm quitting my job and I'm going back to school [00:38:00] to become a teacher. 

She wanted that little bit of independence. She wanted to do her own thing. Jim did not like that. He took her spark plugs out of her car and said, you need to go get a job. You're not going to school. But Kathy didn't care. She got a ride from her mom and went to school anyway. 

upon Cathy's return home from school, Jim hit her across the face. The violence continued to escalate from there, especially whenever Cathy would threaten to leave. Jim punched her in the face so hard one time, it caused Cathy to get stitches. 

Threatening to leave. Usually that's when the most violence occurs, in any sort of domestic violence. if you are in a violent situation, don't mention leaving. 

Just leave. Yeah. Just leave don't mention it. You don't tell anybody else. if you're escaping prison. 

You don't tell the CEOs. Hey, I'm planning on leaving tomorrow . Yeah even though Kathy was hit so badly, causing her to even get stitches she still did have hope. It was her son's father, 

and Jim never [00:39:00] hit Jimmy, so her child didn't see the same person that she did, she didn't really want to shatter that for her kid. Now, Jim began hearing voices. He thought there were people spying on him and following him, he didn't sleep. He would spend his nights over the stove, slowly lighting the burner on and off. 

He would slam his head into a brick wall. He dove into a lake fully clothed once. Kathy told Jim's parents all the things he was doing, but they just weren't phased. Mimi probably wanted Kathy to take care of it. The way Mimi's always taken care of it. Her son married you, he didn't marry us. Exactly, I think that was kind of what was happening there. Kathy even tried taking Jim to a priest, and then she took him to the University of Colorado Denver Hospital. 

Jim stayed there for two nights. And Jim did agree to outpatient counseling . He was now medicated and he [00:40:00] became somewhat stable for a time. Mm-hmm . So that's where we are with Jim and Kathy. 

They're Rocky, but now it seems to be, on a smooth, positive path. We're gonna jump back to Donald now. Okay. We are in June of 1970. 

Donald and Jean have been married for three years now, but Donald wasn't sure if he was happy. He was becoming a little more rehearsed, according to his therapist. Just saying what he needed to say to get through. Donald was still dreaming of his medical career that never came to be. 

While Jean was actively studying for her masters at this point. Still on that path to a PhD. Donald grew more distant, he became, non sexual. He ate separately, he slept alone. When he wasn't isolating, he was threatening, aggressive. Jean told him that she was going to leave him in three weeks. She had been accepted for a doctoral program with a paid [00:41:00] internship, and it was starting in the fall at Oregon State University. Now, she say when she's leaving that she's just, you know, I'm geographically leaving you for this opportunity. 

, or are we like, we're done. Done when that happens? She was saying, we're done. Okay. This was her way out. She must have been planning it without telling him, he was starting to get a little bit worse, more paranoid, more isolated. You know, this is gonna come back. Because once again, she, I know this is the different wife, but she told her, she told him to escape. 

To the jailer ahead of time. Yep. Never tell, never tell. You're planning an escape. Yes. So Donald ended up talking to his therapist about this. He said in three weeks, my wife's going to leave me. I don't know what to do. And after he spoke to his therapist, he came back home and he talked to Jean about it. 

And Jean was convinced by Donald and said, okay, fine. The deadline is gone, but we will go to couples therapy [00:42:00] together. That was her compromise. One week later. Jean and Donald get into an argument, causing Jean to leave the apartment. She storms out. Donald finds her and he tells her how he wants to drown her. 

Jean was able to convince him otherwise. When they got home, Jean made it clear that she would be going to Oregon without Donald. She was done. And the following morning, Donald took some psychedelic drug, I couldn't figure out which one, and he came up with a plan. That night, Donald came home with two cyanide tablets. 

That he acquired from the lab at school. Okay, that's nice. Where do you get cyanide tablets? Exactly. Mm hmm. He dropped them into a glass of hydrochloric acid and he grabbed Jean. He tried to make her swallow it. He wanted to commit a murder suicide. That was his plan. Donald's plan failed. Yeah. [00:43:00] Jean was able to get away from him and call the police. 

It's weird that he would put it in something, like, wouldn't you put the pill in something that someone would ordinarily drink? Like, you don't even need to put the pill in the acid. If you're giving him acid, that's a, like, what? Crush it in some coffee or something, that's what you, you don't Yeah, he's, he's not with it. 

Yeah, he probably can't explain why he did it that way. The police booked Donald, with suicidal and homicidal attempt, and Donald was 24 at the time. Donald's doctor visited him while he was in custody. Donald acted a bit boastful and was bragging about how he's been fooling everyone for years. 

He even started to gloat about killing a cat. He said he also dismembered a dog in the bathtub just to upset Gene. Right, so he's really separate, like, separating from reality right now. There's no truth to the dog dismemberment? I don't know if there's truth to it or not. I really didn't hear about Gene after she [00:44:00] leaves. 

Oh, okay, so she's out of the picture. Yep, she's out of the picture. She does leave. She, she's gone. Good for her. And they didn't have any kids? No. No, no, no, no, no. So now we're going to jump back a little bit to what's been going on at home on Hidden Valley Road. We have the other 10 kids there. now remember Ballet West? 

Don and Mimi created in Aspen and the concerts and ballets. when the ballet was debuted in June of 1971, Margaret, , was very excited about it. 

. She loved it because she went often by herself with just her mom. She got a break from everything. Every so often, some of her brothers that were still living at home would come too, but again, like I said, they were busy with sports and school. 

, Margaret did not like it when the brothers came. She was not the biggest fan of her brothers. 

Eventually though, Mary, the youngest, she was able to come to once she just got a little bit older. So Margaret, Mary, and [00:45:00] Mimi, that's cute. They would do a lot of trips to Aspen. Even though Margaret didn't like the boys coming with her to Aspen, she did start off by really loving her brothers when she was little. 

. As Margaret got older, though, she became a target to her brothers. They would throw pine cones and water balloons at her as she walked to school. 

She was forced to go through what they called the spanking machine. And it wasn't very long before the spanking machine turned sexual. And it wasn't overly overt, but it was enough to kind of, you know, cock your head. Yeah. Yeah. She,, no longer felt safe around her brothers. 

Margaret was eight years old when Donald moved back home from college he was no longer incarcerated after attacking Jean. , they took him to a hospital and realized that he was not mentally well. 

So that's how he came back home. [00:46:00] Margaret was scared of Donald. He's now 25. He would shout religious things like the Hail Mary or the Beatitudes. Those are Catholic prayers. He also once bought cheap picture frames and he would frame one word, like sincerity, and he would hang it on the wall. Around the house. 

 He was ahead of his time. He could have had three words, eat, pray, love, and then been a millionaire. , if you saw that in Pier 1 Imports or Target, just sincerity in script. 

 That's a multi seller. Alright. Yeah. Donald went with the family to his younger brother's hockey games, and then one time at a hockey game, he knelt on the ground and prayed in the middle of the crowd. 

Another time, while the family was having steak for dinner, Donald said that he was eating his father's heart. 

 Jumping a few years forward . Margaret is now 11 years old and Donald is [00:47:00] 28. Donald is still living at home. There are three other brothers still home as well. Mark, who is 16. Matt, who is 15. And Peter is 13. 

And we still have the youngest sister, Mary, who is 8. And Donald's 28? Donald's 28. Living at home. Okay, at this point, with Donald even being 28, he's still getting into fights with his brothers and he's still being very violent and aggressive. 

One time Donald tried choking one of his brothers because he thought that he took his medicine. And then another time, Donald threatened Mimi with a knife. Margaret was trying to call the police, but Donald ripped the phone off the wall, electrocuting Margaret. At that point, Mimi yelled at Margaret, told her to go into the master bedroom, lock the door. 

, she listened, she ran to the master bedroom, locked the door. Margaret heard a scuffle through the door, then she heard other voices. Her other brothers were home from practice, and they were able to help Mimi. Donald then stomped out of the house and vowed to never go [00:48:00] to the hospital again. 

 Margaret's 11 at this time, Mary's 8. This is what they're growing up around. These are their very young, early childhood memories. Mm hmm. Yeah Thanks mom and dad. Yep. So now we're going back to Jim When Jim moved out and was married he would often have his siblings over but never Donald he would take them out He was the one that taught Margaret how to ride a bike The girls Mary and Margaret would spend weekends with Kathy and Jim They began to view Kathy as a second mother. 

The girls really liked getting away from Donald and the chaotic household that was the little glimmer of, relief that they got. However, it came with a cost. Jim began touching Margaret. 

Making it seem like it was a normal thing. He would enter her room at night after he was out at the bar. He would lay beside her. [00:49:00] He would then penetrate her with his fingers. And when he tried with his penis, he was unable to go through with that. . . Mm hmm. 

Margaret had no idea what was going on at the time. And Margaret says that the first time she can remember Jim's abuse was when she was five years old. Mm. Yep. At age 12, Margaret began fighting him off. 

Yeah. She didn't talk about it until she was an adult. Okay. After Mary fought him off at the age of 12, Jim did stop. But Jim then began making advances on Mary, who was only 7 or 8 at the time. Jim was drinking a lot and he was also abusing Kathy at this time. 

unfortunately Jim was not the only brother to abuse Mary and Margaret. They also have come out and said Brian, the fourth [00:50:00] oldest, molested them. Neither of them told anyone until they became adults and, started therapy and self healing 

. There is more that does come back, but now we are going to talk about some of the other brothers that still have things going on, but not quite as big as Jim and Donald. John, the third oldest , he was a classical musician and he was pretty quiet. 

John left the household in 1968 to attend the university of Colorado. In 1970, he fell in love with Nancy. And one time when John brought Nancy to his family home To visit, he saw that things were worse than when he lived there. 

 John does not have schizophrenia. Okay. John and Nancy were married in 1971. Don, the dad, told Nancy's mom that she got the best of the litter. Don kind of knew that John was not like some of the others. 

And both John and Nancy became music teachers and they moved to Idaho. [00:51:00] Oh. Yeah. No, pretty simple, quiet life. Nothing crazy. Yeah. Now Brian, the fourth son. He was considered to be the most handsome. He could listen to music and then play it on the piano. Brian formed a rock band. 

He was the leader of the band, playing the bass, flute, and electric guitar. Oh, a flute. Yeah. Oh, okay. That's what I'm told. , Aqualung. Was a cover band and they booked gigs all over the state. 

His band did play for Lucille Ball once when she was at the Air Force Academy shooting a two part episode of I Love Lucy. Brian smoked weed and he took LSD on occasion. Brian tried the college thing, but then left to go out west and play music. In June of 1971, he opened for Jethro Tull at Red Rocks. 

Wow. [00:52:00] Those flute players, they really kind of flock together. All two of them. Yeah. Yeah. now the fifth son, Michael, he graduated high school with no plan. He didn't go to college. He was like, nah, I'm not doing it. 

And this was in 1971. He was a self-proclaimed hippie and he refused to register for the draft. Nice for Vietnam. Good. He hitchhiked to Aspen, then Indiana trying to make his way to New York. He was stopped in Pennsylvania for taking a bath in a river. He spent 11 days in jail. He was arrested again in Akron, Ohio for loitering. 

He spent a few days in jail and then he called his dad. Don was able to get him out and he bought Michael a plane ticket home. Hmm. Okay. Don and Mimi sent Michael to the hospital for observation where Michael was prescribed antipsychotic medication even though he was not schizophrenic or mentally ill. 

He was just a hippie man. That's it. He just realized the scam of the world and [00:53:00] wasn't he was just a hippie And he wasn't down for any of it. It's weird how people who just don't play the game Mm hmm are labeled mentally ill to how it's indistinguishable. Yeah, just not wanting to buy into the scam of The society we live in. 

Oh, you must be mentally ill. And unfortunately, because Michael does have older brothers that are schizophrenic, he just gets slapped with that label too. So It affects him in a way that it doesn't affect his brothers, but they're both still dealing with this stigma of this mental illness. So he snuck out of the hospital and he made it to a friend's house. He called his home and he said that he was never returning to the hospital and he was not going home. Don and Mimi suggested that he go out to California to be with his brother Brian. 

The music guy. Brian had formed a new band out in California. And Michael liked the idea of staying with his brother for a little bit, going out to California, seeing how that was like. Upon arriving in California, the reality of his brother's [00:54:00] rock star lifestyle quickly faded when Michael realized the whole band was renting one house in Sacramento, not even near the water. 

Yeah, Sacramento. Yeah. So like, hippie here, hippie Michael's like, yeah, yeah, let's go. We're going to Haight Asbury, San Francisco or something and it's, yeah, yeah, the capital. And Brian and the band, they all worked all day, like other jobs, to make rent and make money, leaving Michael alone a lot of the time. 

He was so bored once that he went out to find the Pacific Ocean on foot. He walked for a very long time, but he never got there. Eventually, he just turned around to head back, and on his way back, he cut through a trailer park, where he saw a garden hose and he picked it up. Drink from it. He didn't I think what happened was it wasn't on or maybe he did drink from it. 

I don't know I just know that he messed with the garden hose and then he knocked on the trailer door So, I don't know if he was trying to get something from someone or just see, you know, hey turn on the water for me [00:55:00] something however neighbors saw him and someone called the police and the police arrested him for trespassing and attempted burglary Which is bogus, like, he said that he was just targeted because he was a hippie, and he looked like a hippie, and he was a hippie, and he was just targeted. 

he went to jail after he was arrested for trying to drink out of a garden hose, he was then transferred to a mental hospital with other prisoners and his dad was not able to help him this time. Couldn't get him out. 

Michael had to spend five months in jail before he was allowed to plead guilty in exchange for time served. So what does that mean? It means, I mean, I don't know what charge he pleaded to, but time served means he doesn't get any additional jail or probation time because he's already served Five months. 

his debt to society. At this point, Don and Mimi suggested that Michael live with his uncle in New York for a little bit. Michael [00:56:00] agreed and Hi, it's Michael. 

He's probably like somewhere between 18, 19. I think he had just graduated high school. So he's somewhere in that range. But on his way to New York, he stumbles into this commune Colts thing and it seemed pretty good to him. It was called the farm and there were about 1500 people there. 

He had rules that he had to follow in order to stay. There was no overt anger. No lying, no private money, no animal products eaten, no smoking tobacco. No alcohol, , no man made psychedelics, and no sex without commitment. 

So you're allowed to have sex, but just be committed to that person. In that moment, and then I don't know what they meant by that. Well, they all lived there, so commitment probably meant monogamous. 

Michael said yes to it all, he agreed, he followed the rules, and he did really well at the farm. He was meditating, [00:57:00] and he was working through his own stuff, he was there for about six months. 

After the six months, he started to float around. He was living here, living there, and when he talked to his mom on the phone, she said, I miss you, I would like for you to move back home. Michael moved back to Hidden Valley. He tried to teach the family the skills that he learned on the farm, and he tried to get them to eat healthier, meditate, all of those things that helped him, he thought could help them. 

Meditate, that's against God. Yeah, the family never caught on. In 1973, Mimi and Don suggested that Michael go out and visit Brian in California again. He was making his way to visit Brian, but he stopped somewhere along the way, I think he stopped in LA. He stopped in LA. Michael would never visit his brother. 

On September 7th, 1973, Brian's ex girlfriend, who broke up with him one month prior, her name is Lorelai. Okay. [00:58:00] Lorelai's boss called the police when Lorelai did not return to work from lunch. Ah. 

When officers arrived at the apartment, the door was open. They found the couple on the floor with a 22 caliber rifle beside them. Lorelei was shot in the face, and Brian shot himself in the head. With a 22, that's, that's really small. That's not a common one used for suicides, because it's just A 22 caliber rifle? 

Yeah, it's, the bullet's really small. It's like, yeah. It's not commonly used okay, michael and his dad, Don, both went to identify the body. 

Because Michael was already close and Don, of course, being the dad, wanted to see, so they both Went to identify the body 

Now Brian He was known to take a lot of acid, he spoke of death often, and he didn't believe that dying was the end. He believed that there [00:59:00] was the other side. Yeah. We're gonna go back a little bit to 1972, and the family is home for Thanksgiving. 

, it was pretty rough. Everyone was arguing. Jim was 25 at this time, Donald was 27. They were at each other's throats. They got into such a big argument that it became physical. 

They were wrestling throughout the house and they ended up in the dining room. Where Donald lifted the dining room table on its side and then he threw it at Jim. With the Thanksgiving dinner on it! So then Mimi, she fucking snaps. She goes into the kitchen and she destroys the gingerbread house that she made and she's yelling, You boys don't deserve this! 

Who raised you like this? Yeah. You boys don't deserve this. You did. This is all your fault. Now, with Jim and Donald getting into their mid to late 20s, the other boys are older as well in their teens, early 20s, and they're acting in similar ways. They're stealing, they're pranking people, they're [01:00:00] vandalizing, and anytime any of the boys or siblings would behave in a bad way, Mimi just started to say, You're just like Donald. 

You're acting like Donald. Who made all of them? You brought us into this world. None of them asked to be creative. Now, Donald's behavior, it would ebb and flow. He would do a bit better, try a new medication, be alright for a few months, then he would relapse and go back to the hospital. 

Once, when he was let out, he threatened Don and Mimi's lives. His parents went to court to petition for him to be sent back to the hospital. 

 He was an adult now, so they couldn't just send him there, the court agreed, and he was sent to the hospital. 

He eventually was put into seclusion after he locked up an employee in the room. He didn't even try to run away after he locked the employee in. How did that happen? I don't know, but he was able Who's this employee that gets He said he wanted to teach the employee a lesson and let them know how it felt. 

Yeah, [01:01:00] hopefully that lesson was learned. 

Well,, Donald was discharged in August of 1973. He then admitted himself into a hospital in Oregon. He was trying to be closer to his ex, Jean. However, that didn't work out, Jean stood strong, she never came back, so then he ended up going back home. 

Donald, was becoming increasingly confused and uncooperative. On one occasion, when Don and Mimi brought Donald home from the hospital, he was home for about four months, and then one day strangled Mimi over a disagreement about his medicine. The other brothers had to step in, and the police had to be called. 

Donald then went back to the hospital. . While in the hospital, Donald would say certain stars were showing him where to find elements in the ground. He believed he needed to find the elements, break them open with a hammer, and eat the dust. 

Sounds like a religious awakening. Yeah, I don't know. Don and Mimi told Donald to [01:02:00] get his own place at this time. they just could not handle it anymore. They said, we can't keep doing this. 

Don and Mimi are encouraging Donald to live on his own, be out of the house, and now we are going to look at what the younger siblings are doing back at Hidden Valley. Joe. The seventh son works for an airline upon graduating high school, mark the eighth son attended the University of Colorado, in Boulder after graduation, and don the dad, he has a stroke. 

When the four youngest boys and girls were still living at home. . That was in 1974. the youngest son, Peter, he was 14 at that time and he was with his dad. 

When his dad had the stroke. He was the only one there and he's the one that saw his dad fall to the ground. So more trauma. . Yep. Peter, at the time, when he was younger, was diagnosed with schizophrenia. But , [01:03:00] as time has gone on and we've become more aware of mental disorders and mental illnesses, Peter probably should have been diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. 

I wonder if I have that. You probably do. Years ago I was like, I need to get a doctor to diagnose me. I just need a doctor's slip to say it's in my nature to question my bosses. Just so I have a medical reason to argue against everything. You should have been a lawyer then. I don't care about other people, I'm off to fight for them. 

Alright, well, oppositional defiant disorder it is. , you and Peter might have been friends then. Peter was very defiant, and it only got worse after Don's stroke. Peter began to steal, he would set things on fire, when he was a freshman in high school, he began talking gibberish one time to his classmates, and his teacher told him to stop. 

 When his teacher told him to stop, he goes and sits on her desk, and he continues to speak these, these nonsensical words. Awesome. He just like leans in. [01:04:00] This, this kid's my new hero. Now eventually, the gym teacher, the principal, and the dean of students have to enter the classroom and they get Peter to go back to his desk. 

 Peter was briefly hospitalized at Penrose Hospital just long enough for him to become stable. Peter, after this hospitalization, he went to hockey camp because it was scheduled for him. 

It was already in the books and Mimi thought maybe getting back to normal would be the best thing. He should not have gone. . He began wetting the bed , he was spitting on the floor, and he was hitting the other kids. You can do that on the ice and it'd be fine. 

Yeah, if you did it during, during hockey games, it's fine. Yeah, yeah. Just not in camp. Yeah, you can go punch him all you want. On the ice. Peter was then sent to a private hospital in Colorado Springs. Where no one was allowed to visit him for weeks. Like, the family was not allowed to come see him. Mom was not allowed to come see him. 

When Mimi was finally able to see him, Peter [01:05:00] was only in his underwear. And he was strapped to a bed with no sheets and it smelled like urine. And the staff let her see him? Like they didn't prep him up at all? Exactly! That's what I thought! Did she sneak in? How did the doctors or nurses present him? They have it scheduled to where you can't see him, and then they go, This is the way that we want to show what we've been doing. 

Give him a sponge bath and brush a comb through his hair. Yeah. So Mimi took him out immediately. , she was not happy with this. , now this was 1975. Mimi felt that Pueblo Hospital, which is where Donald was going, would maybe be too much for Peter. So she takes him to the University of Colorado in Boulder to that hospital. 

When they were in the waiting room, Peter peed himself. Once he was admitted, his speech was too slurred to understand. When Don was able to visit Peter, because remember Don was recovering from his stroke, He told the doctors [01:06:00] this is the latest of my son's to lose his mind. That made me sad. So his dad is just kind of watching it all happen. 

While Mimi's trying to stop it, Don's watching it. . Now when Peter was in the hospital, the doctors would notice the other brothers that would come visit as well. Joe being one of the brothers they noticed that Joe exhibited some of the same symptoms as Peter. 

 The doctors started observing both Peter and Joe, just kind of watching Joe, being mindful of it, and the university doctors theorized that it was the mother to blame for the boy's mental conditions, that she was too smothering and cold. 

 Both Mimi and Don disagreed, they did not believe that it was all of Mimi's fault or anything like that. They took their sons out of their care and they just had them all go to Pueblo Hospital and they saw their doctors. 

While at Pueblo, Peter would be charming on good days, but he also said weird things. He said that he was going to be a ski instructor [01:07:00] soon, but then that turned into he was going to be a stunt skier for Charlie's Angels. Yeah, pretty neat one time when he was out of the hospital He jumped on top of a car then he tried to jump onto a moving truck He was almost run over when trying to do this Peter's got a lot going on now What are the sisters up to at this point? 

Christmas of 1975 Mimi and her friend, Nancy Gary, were talking on the phone when Mimi breaks down. She admits how overwhelmed she is to Nancy, and she just says she doesn't know what to do. She's had it. Nancy offers to take Margaret. To take her. Oh. Not, like, adopt her. She's still a Galvan, and she's still, a part of the family. 

But she's like, this isn't a place for little girls. I can take [01:08:00] Margaret, figure something out with Mary, cause Mary's the youngest, and poor thing just gets left out, but I'll take Margaret, and I'll help her get through this. Mimi agrees, and that's honestly a good, nothing bad comes from this. 

 Margaret was 13 years old when she drove away with the Gary family, Mary cried and she was grief stricken at losing her sister. She felt abandoned. Mary became determined to also get out of that house. She did not want to be there anymore. 

In 8th grade, Mary started attending boarding school out on the East Coast. This is 1978. 

This family had a lot of money. I will say that, somehow, despite having 12, 14 mouths to feed, They seem to have not be hurting to send their kids all over the country and to different hospitals and specialists and boarding schools and like Yeah, I think they could have afforded a vasectomy a little earlier. 

Well, they're catholic [01:09:00] remember we don't believe in that but yeah, That is the end of part one We're gonna end there because was very Heavy. There's a lot going on there. We'll get into part two I think there's only gonna be two parts. 

There might be three But I think it's gonna be two. I think I can do this yeah, so. We'll wrap up here, and then if you do want to keep up to date with anything, I am posting on our Blue Sky account. 

We are Borrowed Bones on Blue Sky or Borrowed Bones Podcast, whichever one is easier to search. It is a little tough to find things on Blue Sky right now, so I just encourage you to keep trying. I said this before, but the more that go, the more it'll grow, so please keep trying. Again, Blue Sky is Borrowed Bones or Borrowed Bones Podcast. 

My personal Blue Sky is Daughter of Marauders. I would love to see a few new follows . Cool. Thank you. That's us. Reach out to us. Thank you. And we will see you next time to talk [01:10:00] about part two of the Galvin family. Thank you. Thank you for listening. 

Later. Bye.