Borrowed Bones
Families build you up, tear you down, and sometimes drag you into something truly unhinged. Borrowed Bones unearths the bizarre, toxic, and fascinating stories of family dynamics gone sideways. From the macabre to the just plain strange, we’re digging deep to uncover the skeletons hiding in the closets of history, culture, and beyond.
Borrowed Bones
Watts Family Massacre
A seemingly picture-perfect family is shattered when Chris Watts decided he wanted another life. Shan'ann Watts was willing to work on their marriage, showing her love for her husband via Facebook videos and posts. However, that wasn't enough for Chris. A happy marriage on social media...isn't always a happy marriage in reality.
Sources:
Biography.com, Shan'ann's Obituary, Pregnancy Reaction Video, The Denver Post, Business Insider, The Denver Post-Chris' Confession, The Denver Post- New Confession, Denver7.com, Denver ABC, The Denver Post: Crime and Public Safety, Coloradoan, Denver Post-Nicole Kessinger, New York Times, KKTV.com, Denver Post-Gruesome Details, KOAA News, The New York Post, Beyond the Headlines: Watts Family Tragedy, "Cellmate Secrets"
E-Mail the show at BorrowedBonesPodcast@proton.me
Hello everyone.
Speaker 2:Hey guys out there.
Speaker 1:I'm Sarah.
Speaker 2:And I'm Cole.
Speaker 1:You're listening to Borrowed Bones, a podcast about fucked up, interesting and toxic families. Today, we are talking about a family massacre.
Speaker 2:Oh, my favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you did not write about this one, this was not in Michigan, it was in Colorado. Oh, and I was suggested this episode by my nephew, so I'm doing it for him.
Speaker 2:All right, shout out to your nephew.
Speaker 1:Yes, I just want to jump right into it. Of course we have an Instagram, we have a blue sky, blah, blah blah Borrowed Bones podcast Check it out. But yes, I just want to get right into this one because when I was looking into it it's still kind of in the internet sleuth world.
Speaker 2:Oh, web sleuths yes.
Speaker 1:And I wanted to see why and honestly I don't really know why I think, because sometimes the truth is simpler than what you think.
Speaker 2:Oh, is this like something that led to conspiracy theories and whatnot?
Speaker 1:Yeah a little bit yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Alright, so we're gonna start in the year 2018.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, cool. More recent one.
Speaker 1:We are talking about the murder of Shanann.
Speaker 2:Shanann.
Speaker 1:Yes, she has an apostrophe in the middle of her name there.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, shanann.
Speaker 1:So Shanann Shanann Watts and her daughters Bella and Celeste were murdered by the ever-loving husband and father, chris Watts.
Speaker 2:Oh, this name does ring a bell for me. I can't remember why 2018, so I probably saw something contemporaneously about it, or something.
Speaker 1:There were a few. I think there was one documentary on Netflix, for sure, and then there's been a few elsewhere.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes yes, yeah, okay, I vaguely remember. I think I watched it when it came. So if the murders happened in 2018, the documentary must have come out no later than like 21 or so, so I think I watched it one just boring night on netflix and oh, I just looked it up american murder, the family next door.
Speaker 1:Okay, there we go. It was on that, but okay, okay, so it didn't Just Boring Night on Netflix. Oh, I just looked it up American Murder, the Family Next Door. Okay, there we go.
Speaker 2:I didn't know the title, so it was on that, but okay. Okay, so it didn't stick with me, I remember that it'll probably come back to me as you're saying things, but let's dive in.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. All right, chris and Shanann Watts are both from North Carolina. They met in 2010 when Chris sent Shanann a Facebook friend request and then he directly messaged her or he slid into her DMs.
Speaker 2:That wasn't even a phrase back in 2010. It's weird to think back that we had Facebook in 2010.
Speaker 1:I remember learning about that phrase hearing the DM and I was like what does?
Speaker 2:that mean I think I probably first heard it in a song lyric or something. I'm always behind on the lingo.
Speaker 1:Now, shanann was the type of person to post everything online. Everything on Facebook. Facebook videos. Facebook live videos.
Speaker 2:Oh, one of those people.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm Everything.
Speaker 2:I have has to be documented for everyone to see.
Speaker 1:Yes, and at that time Facebook was the big one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, myspace was fallen by the wayspace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was gone. So when Chris DM'd her, she did end up making a video about that, but later on, after they were dating and she was describing how that moment felt to her okay she said she was surprised to get a dm from him and she thought that she would never meet up with him. But then she says well, one thing led to another and eight years later we have two kids, we live in colorado and he's the best thing that's ever happened to me it's about to be the worst, hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:It's about to be the worst thing.
Speaker 1:Yep, November 3rd 2012,. Chris and Shanann got married in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker 2:Okay, so still living on the East Coast.
Speaker 1:That's where they got married, and then, December 17th 2013, they welcomed their first child, Bella, and she was born in Colorado. Oh, okay so I'm not sure when they moved to colorado.
Speaker 2:Both of their families are from north carolina so maybe there for like work or something, I'm not sure opportunities right.
Speaker 1:I don't know why they moved there, but they moved to colorado okay, and their first daughter was born in colorado and her name is bella bella shenan was a great mom. She was very happy to have bella. Chris and shenan are in their early 30s here and shenan just really wanted that family life that typical wholesome white picket fences.
Speaker 1:She really wanted that and she was getting that, so she was very happy. And then in shenan's obituary it reads that Shanann was so excited to have her first baby girl. She spent every minute thanking God and taking care of her precious gift that the Lord had blessed her with. She loved and cherished her.
Speaker 2:So she's religious too. We can assume Her family. Just the wording of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think religious in just the casual way that it is here in america. As I was saying it, I heard it coming out of my mouth religion's casual in america, um, just in the sense that everyone thanks god and everyone feels, blessed, and you know, and everyone prays for everyone. That's what I mean by the casual christian.
Speaker 2:It was more casual back then yes, it was now we're a day and a half away from the theocracy, but uh anyway oh man, june of 2015, the watts family files for bankruptcy oh, do you know what their business, what they did for careers?
Speaker 1:Oh yes, Both of them worked full time and Chris worked for Anadarko Petroleum Corporation.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And Shanann worked as an independent contractor for a nutrition company called Level, and they sell Thrive Health and Wellness products.
Speaker 2:Is it like a multi-level marketing scheme? I don't know, maybe not, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure. I've seen Thrive as an actual brand, so I don't know if it's the same brand. But she did travel when she was working, when she was in town. She worked from home.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And together they had a combined income of, I think, $90,000.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So they were doing all right, but I think that they were maybe just living outside of their means.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They were struggling with credit card debt, student loans, medical bills. They also lived in an area that they had to pay HOA fees.
Speaker 2:Oh, those will do me. Those are, yeah, yep, hoas are the devil.
Speaker 1:Yes, they're the devil. July 17th 2015,. Their second child was born, oh, so they're already struggling. Yes, and another baby arrives, her name, high tension. Yeah, her name is Celeste and she goes by Cece.
Speaker 2:Bella and Cece.
Speaker 1:All right. Even though she was battling with lupus. She said that she was determined to stay healthy and she wanted every moment with Cece. She wanted all of that.
Speaker 2:You said Cece was born in 2017?.
Speaker 1:July 17th 2015. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:All right, just make sure I have my ages correct by the time we get to 2018.
Speaker 1:May 15th 2018, 2018. So we're jumping ahead. Shenan posts a 31 minute facebook live video talking about I know no, nothing against no, no, no, no, anyone, she truly felt this way, but yeah, in today's world personality trait in general that I'm like what?
Speaker 1:I think TikTok really ran away with this whole mom talk culture thing and now it feels like a money grab. Even a few years ago 2018, it didn't feel quite as fake. So I do think Shanann was authentically trying to connect with people and trying to fill the void that everyone tries to fill with social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you never can, nope, so don't try.
Speaker 1:We have an Instagram, though. Well, shanann posts a 31 minute Facebook live video and she talks about the joys of life and how she's happy to be where she is. She says I love waking up now on Saturdays, being able to enjoy my family. And then she continues on to say she's excited for the upcoming summer and she believes that everything happens for a reason. Chris is in the background playing with the girls during this video, just kind of showing a wholesome moment in their world. The girls during this video, just kind of showing a wholesome moment in their world. One month later, june of 2018, shenan surprises chris with the news that they're expecting their third child oh no I mean it's been a few years since the bankruptcy okay, you know they had that in 2015.
Speaker 1:It's now 2018. It's not a long time to have two kids after that. I guess now that I say it out loud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can imagine there's some pressure there, shenan, I mean also sorry you're okay, like the 30 I mean I'm sure she was being genuine with the video but also a 31 minute video saying how happy you are is right like over compensation and like what the like I would never believe someone telling me they're happy for 31 minutes.
Speaker 1:I will never believe that I do wonder what happens when the phone, when the videos aren't being recorded? Yeah not saying that they were abusive or anything like that because friends and family on both sides were surprised by all of this. But still, just because you're not in like a horrible abusive relationship doesn't mean you're'm a good person, without a trace of irony.
Speaker 2:It's like well, no, you're not yeah.
Speaker 1:I think from what I've read. Anyway, I think that she did love him but, it wasn't reciprocated. And she was feeling that and I think she really wanted to show him. Hey, I love you. Look at how great this is. This is wonderful. Look at this.
Speaker 2:I've done everything for you. I've made a perfect life for you. Why aren't you happy with this? What more can I do? Yes, we're speculating, but oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:In the reaction video that Shanann sets up, she's wearing a shirt that says oops, we did it again. Once they find out that it's a little boy, they name him Nico. Okay With a c or a k c okay what if I said k I'm just curious just pure curiosity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd like to know things okay if it was a k I would think he's more greek descendant maybe, but c I'm just thinking, oh, they just like the sound of it oh, okay yeah maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, june 17th, shanann posts another video saying happy Father's Day to Chris. She said she was blessed to have him and that he does so much for them every day. Also, in June of 2018, chris begins an affair with his co-worker, nicole Kessinger.
Speaker 2:Of course he does.
Speaker 1:Mm-worker Nicole Kessinger, Of course he does. Mm-hmm. Nicole worked in the environmental department at their At their petroleum.
Speaker 2:Anadarko Petroleum, okay, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:At first it's just cute little conversations at work, and then one month later, july, they start meeting up outside of the office.
Speaker 2:The whole thing of guys having these prolonged affairs, like it just seems like so much work. I know, like you're already. You've been bankrupt once. You've got two kids. We got a third on the way Like it just seems like another chore.
Speaker 1:Like you have enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just like another thing I would have to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe get the divorce.
Speaker 2:Break up. Yeah, it's just like another thing I would have to do. Yeah, maybe get the divorce?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, but but now you're not doing anything in secrecy. That's one less step you have to take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why people take on extra stressors?
Speaker 1:They call it a thrill. I call it high cortisol. It gives me wrinkles. No thanks. Chris and Nicole begin meeting up multiple times a week, like three to five times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly To our point. That's difficult to do. I would rather just sleep than have an affair. Anytime you would spend on having an affair. Just go to sleep, because even an affair is something you have to work at. I'm like I don't want to work anymore.
Speaker 1:I don't want to work anymore, I just want to sleep.
Speaker 2:Keep rolling, okay.
Speaker 1:He tells Nicole oh, fuck, Okay.
Speaker 2:She tells Nicole oh fuck, I can't do this.
Speaker 1:No, he tells Nicole, the classic, that he's in the process of getting a divorce and that whole storyline.
Speaker 2:Paperworks in the mail.
Speaker 1:In late June of 2018. So we're kind of overlapping here so yeah, his double lives yeah, they're hanging out in july. Right now of having a fair late june, shenan takes the kids to north carolina for a six-week summer break to visit her family without the husband, without the husband, okay so he starts this little love affair right at the same time that she leaves.
Speaker 2:Okay so it's a little less work than I, it's a little more convenient when your wife's just flat out gone for a month and a half.
Speaker 1:Chris does plan to meet up with them during the last leg of their vacation, but they're doing the bulk of it separate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the dad at work is always planning to meet him at the end yes, I'm working really hard I can't take all that time off yep.
Speaker 1:Once the family is in north carolina and chris is still in colorado, chris tells nicole that he is divorced. It's done oh yeah, so nicole's just like truly a bystander.
Speaker 2:She doesn't know what's going on.
Speaker 1:Nicole goes to Chris's home for the first time on the 4th of July. They also went on a date to an American collection car museum.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:July 14th. Then they spent the night at the Great Sand Dunes on July 28th. It's a national park, and all of this while the family's on vacation, just waiting for him to join up.
Speaker 2:Where is she, the other woman? What does she think about the kids? I'm assuming she knows he has kids. He's a co-worker. I mean, I don't know what his story was, but it's easy to say she moved back to North Carolina. She works remotely for her job.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's easy to cover up the divorce in that moment.
Speaker 2:She visited the house.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Hmm, now, maybe he redecorated, but I would think it's going to be pretty. I mean, I don't know, I'm picturing like a typical family house is going to have a woman's touch.
Speaker 1:I'm guessing. I think you could just pass it off if I haven't had time yet it's too fresh, very easy to write off in this time frame here july 31st, chris finally meets up with his family in north carolina, so they've been apart for about a month, cool. While they were all together in north carolina, shenan was texting with a few of her friends and she was venting, talking about how her marriage isn't doing well and she mentioned tension between her and her in-laws. Just overall, a distant, not a great end of the vacation there.
Speaker 2:Vacation has taken its toll, it's run its course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, shanann is the type of person that communicates with her close group of friends daily. She sends them good morning texts every morning like hello, beautiful things like that. When she was in North Carolina, she was messaging them quite a bit about the distance between her and her husband. She even sent a photo of herself and him how they were sitting. He was looking away at the time, but they were sitting far apart from one another. Now, even though she knew and heavily suspected the affair, she still was telling her friends we'll work through it, we'll go to therapy.
Speaker 2:She really was going to make this work, so she was willing to forgive his infidelity. Even before she really knew about it. Yeah, yeah, that's. Wow, I don't know if you.
Speaker 1:She's devoted.
Speaker 2:To preemptively forgive someone, as they're still doing the crime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I don't know if she would be mad knowing exactly. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Soon. After their trip to North Carolina it is now August 9th they're back home in Colorado. Shanann has to go to Arizona for a work trip. Chris and Shanann had a relationship talk right before she left, and Shanann messaged her friends that that was their best talk yet.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:So she left optimistic.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:While she's on this work trip, Shanann meets up with some friends that she knows in the area and she's confiding in them about her marital struggles, catching up on other things as well when she receives an alert on her phone and she sees that her card was charged at a restaurant for more than what it would be typically if Chris got food there and it was kind of an unusual charge and with her suspicions already, she was like what's going on?
Speaker 1:And that's exactly what was happening. Chris was at dinner with Nicole after he left the kids with a babysitter. He was supposed to be home with the kids. Oh shit, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow yeah, the audacity. Yeah, so she's probably like what the fuck he's supposed to be at home? Why is he doing? What's what's going on here?
Speaker 1:They don't really talk about it, though to my knowledge OK, so suspicion she's traveling, yeah, August 13th is when Shanann comes home.
Speaker 1:It's around 2 am and one of her friends picked her up from the airport and dropped her off at home. All right, that would be the last time Shanann walks into her house. Last time she was seen alive outside of the house yes, okay. In the early morning of August 13th, chris wakes up Shanann as he's getting ready for work. He says he wants to talk about their marriage and their future. It's probably around 5 am at this point. Okay. Chris tells Shanann about his affair and says their marriage won't last. Shanann then says he won't ever see the kids again.
Speaker 2:Oh, exactly so she wasn't as forgiving as she thought.
Speaker 1:Right Good.
Speaker 2:Chris then strangles Shanann to death. Is this his account, or how do we know that this is one of his accounts?
Speaker 1:Okay, and it's pretty much a guideline. We can follow this. He adds details and takes some out here and there, but this is the basis of it, but this is the basis of it.
Speaker 2:I'm just taking what if it's his account? Small grain of salt, just because obviously he's self-serving and he's going to try to alleviate his guilt here and there where he can to justify certain things. Even if he's confessing to it, he's still going to minimize culpability a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he does this one yes, minimize culpability a little bit. Yeah, and he does this one yes, he, he does slowly add things, take things out, certain details, but I don't want to give away some details that he lets in later.
Speaker 1:I'll let the story tell itself okay shenan says he won't ever see the kids again. And then chris strangles shenan to death, their daughter bella, who's four years old at the time. She comes into the room and asks what's wrong with mommy. Chris then wraps shenan in a sheet and carries her to his truck. Chris then puts his two kids, bella and celeste, yep in the back seat of his truck, where their mom is laying on the floor beneath their feet.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, chris drives an hour to his work site, he parks and he drags Shanann out of the truck and he buries her in a shallow grave. And he buries her in a shallow grave. Chris then returns to his truck where he smothers Cece with the blanket and then takes her and puts her in one of the two oil batteries. They're big oil tanks, the big drums. You have to get on a ladder and climb up to the top.
Speaker 2:Four stories tall, big round. Okay, I can picture those. You're usually in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Colorado, so I'm picturing desert-y, mountainous yeah.
Speaker 1:When Chris comes back to the truck, he proceeds to smother Bella with the blanket and then takes her body and puts it in the second oil battery. And puts it in the second oil battery and, as we said, these oil batteries are big and you have to climb up the stairs, but at the top the hole that you use to fill it up with is only eight inches in diameter. Wow, yeah, for this one anyway, I don't know how they all are but this one in the reports said that that's how big it is Right.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had to push his daughters through that.
Speaker 2:Damn, it's a cold bastard.
Speaker 1:Now, as you and I mentioned just a second ago Chris would confess, a few times he switched things up here and there. I gave us what is what happened.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Now, at this point, right here, this is what the police know. I thought it'd be easier to understand his changes if we know what happened first.
Speaker 2:Okay, no-transcript.
Speaker 1:At 1.40 pm on August 13th, shanann's friend Nicole Atkinson, not the affair. Nicole she calls the police to say that she is concerned about Shanann. Friend Nicole is the one that dropped her off from the airport. Now she called and texted Shanann a few times that day and never got a reply, which is weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's somebody who texts all day first thing in the morning, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, Her friends also realized that Shanann missed a prenatal appointment that morning which they knew she would never do, and she's already told friends, some of these friends, that she's having marital stress, marital issues, Friend Nicole urged the police to do a welfare check. She was like I'm concerned. I just need a welfare check. In one of the documentaries I saw that friend Nicole also called Chris and told him hey, we need to get into your house. We don't know where, shanann is.
Speaker 1:She's not responding, and he was a little relaxed about it. He was just like oh, she went to a friend's house with the kids.
Speaker 2:They're like what friend? Yeah, we're all the friends. Okay, so that makes sense that she would call him first before calling the cops.
Speaker 1:So then, that's when Nicole said if you don't come here, I'm calling the cops.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:And then Chris responded with we don't need to get the police involved, which also kind of red flagged in. Nicole's head of. Why would that be your response?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Why aren't you worried? So friend Nicole called the police and shortly after the police arrive, chris shows up okay and in this documentary you can see the police body cam so this is the visual you're having now, or I was having, and I see chris come up and he's really not looking at anyone in the eye. He unlocks the door for the police to come in, but he shoves himself front but he doesn't really do anything.
Speaker 2:It's not like he's running from room to room. I remember vaguely some of this footage from the Netflix documentary. I remember yeah, the body cam footage being a big selling point to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's just being weird and I don't like to judge people on how they deal with situations like this because, you never know, I'm someone who laughs at funerals. That's awful, but I am that asshole because I don't know what else to do. It sucks. Sorry, but this is just kind of the first of many. He's acting a little weird, being being nervous. Nicole is the one friend.
Speaker 1:Nicole is the one who notices all of Shanann's daily things, still about, still everywhere Her purse, her phone her keys her medicine that she took daily because of lupus Things like that were just Stuff, she would not leave behind for any reason.
Speaker 2:The shit you take out of the house with you is a matter of course. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And in the body cam footage you just see Chris walking from room to room like, acting like he's looking around, but Nicole notices this stuff and she's oh, her keys, her keys.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, her phone. She would never leave. And then she gets on her phone right away to call her other friends. I mean, she's reacting the way you think someone would. The I mean she's reacting the way you think someone would. The more you find, the more you don't know kind of the more she's finding the deeper the mystery becomes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And Chris is just.
Speaker 2:Nonchalant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, walking around, nervous looking.
Speaker 2:No, he's smooth yeah.
Speaker 1:It's weird. The police noticed that there wasn't much, really no evidence of a struggle or violence, but they did notice that there was no sheets or covers on the bed.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:And it smelled very clean, like a little too clean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you just did a cleaning, so they just noted that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Then the police and Chris go to Chris's neighbor's house.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Because the neighbor has a security camera, like a ring camera that could see Chris's driveway All right. It wasn't the best view, but you could see some of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The camera shows the truck back up to the garage, but you can't see. You can only seeris's feet, because the truck is on the other side, so you don't really see anything else, just the truck backing up. And then, as I was watching this because it's still the police body cam footage that I'm watching this security camera footage through, but I can also see chris and the neighbor watching the security camera footage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 1:And I see Chris behaving oddly. And I don't know Chris. So I was thinking, okay, let me look at the neighbor to see how he's looking at Chris. And the neighbor looked weird.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's a male neighbor too, yes, okay.
Speaker 1:And the neighbor looked weird and I was like, ok, I wonder what's going to happen here. Chris walks away, he exits and the neighbor looks quickly, glances over at the officer and he just leans up and whispers he ain't acting right. Oh and I was like oh shit, there it is.
Speaker 2:There it is so.
Speaker 1:the police don't have any solid evidence at all.
Speaker 2:Right now, man, they're circling. Are they asking about the children? I mean the ones too young, unless they're in like preschool or daycare? Oh is, is he saying that she took the kids?
Speaker 1:with her to the front. She took the kid. Yes, all right.
Speaker 2:So they're not like unaccounted for as far as yeah they assume they're all together all together. If they're all missing, they're all together. Yes, they put out like a missing persons report for all of them, amber, all that stuff Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:The following day, August 14th, Chris pleads for his family's return on the local news.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep, Chris looks into the camera and he says Shanann, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just come back. If somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete without anybody here. Please bring them back.
Speaker 2:At least he got their names right. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:I watched that little clip as well and his eyes look dead. Again. One of these things alone you can't really judge, but everything put together, I'm sorry. I'm looking at it by this point. Like I said, there's missing persons. Now it's a couple days later and we have the FBI in on this and Colorado Bureau of Investigation is involved. So we have quite a few investigators looking at this and they see another local interview. They go oh, let's watch. Have quite a few investigators looking at this and they see another local interview.
Speaker 1:They go oh, let's watch yeah so they watch and they noted that chris was already talking about his family in the past tense yeah they were like huh that'll get you all right. He said that bella was going to be starting kindergarten like. Like was going to be doing this. We were going to do that. She was this way like what a fucking idiot, so stupid, so these investigators basically know, but they can't do anything yet. August 15th 2018, so it's only been a few days. Yeah, chris agrees to a polygraph test idiot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if this guy had just this whole like if he just kept his mouth shut, like let the cops think all they want If they can't prove it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So he took a polygraph test and he failed. They said he failed miserably. I guess, typically the score I don't know what it's called the yes, typically the score I don't know what it's called the threshold if you're lying or not is negative four. So I think negative three is probably like you're okay. Negative four is you're out. Yeah, he scored negative 18.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean, it's all hoodoo, but still Well, it worked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because after failing the polygraph test, he asks to speak to his father. So the investigators leave the police interview room and his father comes into the police interview room, which is always being recorded.
Speaker 2:yeah, he says that he killed her, that he killed shenan this is why cops use polygraph tests, not because they actually are lie detectors. They use it as a device to fuck with the suspect's heads. That's what they use it for. And it works a lot of times.
Speaker 1:It works, even if you're innocent too, so don't do it.
Speaker 2:The guy who invented the polygraph was for plants, yeah. And he said do not use this to gauge truth or deception.
Speaker 1:Y'all should look into that. For real Polygraphs were made for plants, and it's kind of terrifying to know how sentient plants are. Anyway, so Chris tells his dad that he killed Shanann, and of course he ends up telling officials as well, yeah, he says he killed Shanann, but not his daughters. So his first ever confession was wife, but not the kids.
Speaker 2:He knows he went too far.
Speaker 1:He knows that's too beyond the pale Yep. He says he killed Shanann because he discovered that she smothered their daughters.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, he's saying that she killed them.
Speaker 2:And then he was so enraged he killed her that he killed her Yep.
Speaker 1:Chris said that he saw Shanann smothering the girls on the baby monitor.
Speaker 2:Okay. So they were smothered by the time he got into the room and he killed her you wouldn't right call the cops or something to be like hey, I'm watching my wife, I'm gonna drive the hour home from work and stop her myself instead of okay well yeah, I mean the officials got what they wanted.
Speaker 1:They got him to leak open a little bit.
Speaker 2:At least he's gonna to go behind bars and now they can just poke and poke and poke those holes.
Speaker 1:They just wanted him to admit to something.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because they knew they're like, just say one thing.
Speaker 2:And they need the bodies. There's no yeah.
Speaker 1:August 16th. They found all of the bodies Shanann, bella and Cece's.
Speaker 2:How did they find them? Did he tell them where to look in his confession?
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, he did tell them where the bodies were and then, during one of the, he has a few confessions throughout, like six months.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the accounts vary yeah.
Speaker 1:And so one person at one point asked him why he put Bella and cc in the oil batteries and why he couldn't just bury them all together or like why would he do that? And he just said that he was so enraged at the time and he didn't want his wife to be buried with her kids oh yeah just evil, just being kids. Yeah, just evil, just being evil.
Speaker 2:It's so impractical. I mean you wonder what really was going through his head.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like it seems like more work too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very odd, I mean clearly she didn't kill her kids.
Speaker 2:Clearly he did them all.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the disposal just seems so it doesn't make much sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then, on the same day, august 16th, was Chris's bond hearing. Okay, what's?
Speaker 2:It's like an arraignment. They probably arrested him, bring him before a judge and the judge has to set a dollar or a bond amount for him to be released.
Speaker 1:Pending trial, all right.
Speaker 2:Well, they denied bond, yeah, which is typical in a murder case, let alone a triple murder case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the police also interviewed Nicole Kessinger the affair on August 16th as well. This was a big day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fast-moving investigation.
Speaker 1:It's very fast. She told the police. Quote, quote. I liked this quote. I legitimately think his cheese was sliding off his cracker long before he met me I say that all the time I've heard you say that, yeah. Yeah, I've never heard it in like the wild before.
Speaker 2:I don't know where I got it from, like I heard it in something or I read it somewhere, I don't know, but I've said it for as long as I can recall.
Speaker 1:Someone's just still mentally tweaked, or whatever she was always very cooperative with the police, nicole she has nothing to do with any of this, so she's caught in the middle yep, simply caught in the middle. She's got nothing to do with any of it. Also, I did read that chris was into um working out, but not like bodybuilding. But he was into like those supplements and those powders and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Creatine shit, yes yeah, for real.
Speaker 1:And nicole in one of her interviews mentions that he would have these patches, he would and he would do more than what the dose should be. So I think he is hopped up on a lot of yeah, these supplements and yeah, yeah, roid rage and yes, yeah so there's that happening in the background as well, alec jones crow beaks and chicken feet supplements yeah, august 21st, still in 2018, just one week after chris was pleading for his family to come home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, chris was charged with three counts of first-degree murder and then an additional two charges for the victims being 12 or younger.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:He also faced another count for the unlawful termination of a pregnancy, plus three more counts of tampering with a body. Okay, I believe that's nine if my math is correct.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute Three two.
Speaker 1:One for the unlawful termination?
Speaker 2:yeah, and then two counts of tampering with a body, or three counts.
Speaker 1:Three counts of first-degree murder.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Two charges for the victims being 12 or younger one for termination of pregnancy and then three for tampering with body okay, yeah, so not sweet okay I got nervous. September 1st a funeral is held for shanan, bella and celeste in north carolina. I normally put where the cemetery is um I didn't want to find it.
Speaker 2:They, if they're that curious well.
Speaker 1:Shenan's family, unfortunately, was harassed quite a bit after this for no good reason by whom, like the media or internet, web sleuths oh yeah, we'll get into that at the end. So that's unfortunate, which is sad, because Shanann, bella and Cece are victims along with Shanann's family.
Speaker 2:Web sleuths doesn't seem like that complicated of a case.
Speaker 1:It's not.
Speaker 2:It seems pretty open and shut as far as what happened and who did it.
Speaker 1:Like I said, he confesses different times, but he never takes away his own guilt of doing the murders.
Speaker 2:He never says somebody else came in.
Speaker 1:If anything, he might be wishy-washy with who killed the kids.
Speaker 2:That makes sense for him.
Speaker 1:He killed his wife.
Speaker 2:He probably feels some guilt or shame whatever you want to call it for killing his children. Yes, and so he's trying to mitigate that in his own head.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know why the internet has to take things and make them bigger than what they are. This seems like something that, anyway, we'll get into it. It seems like something that ran away At the funeral, shanann's dad read and this is about Shanann you are nothing but pure love, always caring for everyone. You will always be daddy's little girl. I thought that was really sweet.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:November 6, 2018,. Chris pleads guilty to all nine counts.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:There was a plea deal. Shanann's family did not want him to face the death penalty. Oh they didn't, they didn't and I that's in the courts were like all right well, if he pleads, if he does this deal, then we'll take the death penalty off the table. So everyone agreed. So, this is a very fast moving yeah that's, that's like the fastest yes, like in like two weeks.
Speaker 2:I know from like well, now it's november. Now, november 6th is when he pleads guilty, but still it's, I think, three months total never seen a defendant plead guilty to a homicide charge that quick, after not even close right but alone plead as charged and this is where the internet bullshit comes into play, where people go.
Speaker 1:That never happens. No, it really never does, but one person did do it because we're humans and we have outliers and maybe he just feels really, really bad.
Speaker 2:Plus, it's a good deal for him.
Speaker 1:It's a good deal for him. He's not going to die.
Speaker 2:I guarantee his defense attorney was like he has no defense.
Speaker 1:He has no defense. So all any attorney who could tell him is you're. We just got to negotiate life without parole against the death penalty.
Speaker 2:That's all we have to work with. Yeah, that's all we're going for. Well, okay, here we are here. It is like we have. You've confessed. There's no other suspects. There's. All the evidence points to you, there's nothing and the victims, like if you go in front of a jury with two children a father accused of strangling his two children even you know presumed innocent whatever. But not really Not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're not going to look kindly on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's for sure I mean uphill battle to be found not guilty.
Speaker 1:So he was smart to take this deal, yeah, and so Internet web sleuth, whatever. People can just chill. He was smart to do this and that's why he did it. That's the answer, because it's the best case scenario for him in this moment. Also, I did notice and I don't know if this would lead to any conspiracy theories in anyone's minds when I was trying to look for, like, the transcripts of the court trial and to see the actual government documents of things.
Speaker 1:The links errored out. I wasn't able to follow the links, but I did read in the fine print that it said available upon request.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is typical, for, like, court transcripts are. I've not, I mean, I don't know what they're in Colorado, but the whole transcript is never just usually published. This one they might've done because it's a high profile one, but it's probably is never just usually published. This one they might have done because it's a high-profile one, but it's probably just put on a link that expired. Plus courts change their servers all the time. They get new websites, they upload, they transfer materials and sometimes the old, whatever was on the old system just isn't transferred over.
Speaker 1:It's not a grand conspiracy. There's no cover up there. You can get it if you want to FOIA.
Speaker 2:If you want to, yeah, you can get it you can probably just call the courthouse and ask for it, and they'll probably just charge you whatever the fee is to mail it.
Speaker 1:True and print it. That's it Right. So I don't again. I don't think there's.
Speaker 2:And the police are saying yeah, what do web sleuths think? That somebody, that he's like a patsy, that somebody else killed the family and he's so scared that what are they?
Speaker 1:thinking. I didn't see any. I didn't go to any of those websites and there's apparently some Facebook pages about it, but I don't have a Facebook so I didn't look. I think it's more just the stupid theory. I didn't read any because I don't care. This is the story I researched, the real one. November 19th, chris is sentenced to life in prison, officially.
Speaker 2:Without possibility of parole, I guess.
Speaker 1:Without parole. Yeah, the judge that sentenced Chris. He said that this is quote sentence Chris. He said that this is quote perhaps the most inhumane vicious crime I have handled out of the thousands of cases that I have seen.
Speaker 2:Whenever I get a judge saying something along those lines, that's sentencing. That's, like always, my lead. The judge is like you know. They've never seen something as heinous or vicious in their 12 years on the bench, or they've never seen a crime as brutal in their 40 years of being an attorney.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it always does leave a mark when the judge says something that big yeah. The judge issued five lifetime sentences, with an additional 84 years for the unlawful termination of the pregnancy and the disposing of the bodies of his family. Yeah, why can't we just say he's got life? I don't understand the 84 years.
Speaker 2:In paperwork, it's just it's. There's literally a rubric where they add up points to determine the number of years, or at least in Michigan it's down to months. Oh determine the number of years, or at least in michigan it's. It's down to months, oh, and it's just just a formality to be like. These are literally the number of months that he will be in prison, even if it clearly just overspends a lifespan.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess you gotta be safe.
Speaker 2:It's just yeah, yeah, okay yeah I always thought it's comical too, but it is For the books. Life plus 50. Life plus like whatever.
Speaker 1:All right Sure, if I make it beyond life, add the 84. Sure.
Speaker 2:Some people have gotten sentenced to multiple death penalties.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Ted Bundy had three death penalties.
Speaker 1:Well, those were in different states though. No, no, they were all in Florida. Oh shit, three times. Also, in November, shanann's family filed a lawsuit against Chris for wrongful death. They would go on to win the lawsuit for millions of dollars, of course they knew they weren't going to see it. They just didn't want Chris to be able to make any money off of this in the future.
Speaker 2:I mean five lifetimes in prison. He's going to write a book at some point. Right, there is. But inmates cannot personally profit off art literature, whatever they. That is about their crimes.
Speaker 1:So there is that true, maybe they just really wanted to make sure he could make any money ever.
Speaker 2:I mean still, he can still make money and earn money in prison, but he just didn't want to have any of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but shortly after chris incarcerated, he had to be moved to another facility for safety concerns. Too many people knew him in the local prison. They hated him because of murdering his daughters. That's what did it. He was like bottom of the totem pole.
Speaker 2:And then who do you have? Like, obviously you have other inmates to be afraid of, but then who do you ask to defend you? The guards who?
Speaker 1:are going home to their families every day. You are like. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Chris was moved to Dodge Correctional Facility in Wisconsin.
Speaker 2:A high security prison. He was moved to a different state. Holy shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've never heard of him. Really I mean I'm assuming he was convicted on state level charges in Colorado, not federal charges?
Speaker 1:It all happened in Colorado.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no interstate.
Speaker 1:I don't yeah.
Speaker 2:That's weird. For me to move to Wisconsin they might have had like a. He can't be held anywhere in Colorado, he's too well known.
Speaker 1:I guess inmates would like. This is just one little tidbit that I read. I'm sure there was worse, but one thing I read was inmates would constantly, daily, yell suggestions for him on how to kill himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense Just constantly.
Speaker 1:So that's just a mental mind fuck. February 18th 2019, investigators felt they could get more out ofris because at this point, he still hasn't said he's killed his daughters oh okay, we just know this yeah, but he's only sticking by. He killed shenan, so they're like we just want more information. I don't know why they keep going at him.
Speaker 2:Need it like you don't need. He's already been convicted of him. It doesn't matter if he did not, I mean murderers deny killings all the time, and so can get convicted, and the cops don't go back and they're like so why'd you do it?
Speaker 1:I know. And they found the bodies, yeah. So I don't really know why they went back to look, but they did yeah and they visited chris and there was a five-hour interview damn, where he does confess to killing his daughters and disposing of their bodies. Okay, chris said, quote this was like the epitome of being angry, the epitome of showing rage, the epitome of losing your mind. I'd say so.
Speaker 1:Chris also said that when he was in the truck after he killed Cece and he was going back for bella, that bella asked him if he was going to do the same thing to her as he did to cc and he said yes. And she tried to fight back and her last words were daddy, no damn. Chris also talked about killing Shanann. He said on the morning of August 13th he woke Shanann up and he was sitting on top of her, straddling her as she was lying on the bed on her back and they were discussing their marriage and their future. And then Shanann confronted him about the affair. Chris denied it. He told her that their marriage wasn't working and it wouldn't last and that he didn't love her. That's when Shanann told Chris that he would never see the kids again, and then that's when he strangled Shanann. He's very consistent with Shanann saying he'll never see the kids again. I don't know if she said that or not, but either way, why would killing them well that actually she might.
Speaker 2:That kind of makes sense a little bit for his, give some context to his actions that maybe he's then destroying the kids too because they're so important to they, were so important to her and that you're gonna take them from me? No, no, I'll just destroy them entirely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, destroy all of them. It's not rational.
Speaker 2:but I could see that train of thought of you know, like, why do you? You know your girlfriend's going to leave you, so you kill her If she can't be with me.
Speaker 1:no one kind of like, well, you lose her. It's strange.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, does crime lead to stupidity or does stupidity lead to crime?
Speaker 1:I don't know. After he strangled his wife, Bella walks into the room asking what's wrong with mommy. That's when Chris then wraps Shanann in the sheet, drags her down the stairs and puts her in his truck.
Speaker 2:It's so bizarre that he drove with them still alive. There's that cooling off period of it's approximately an hour drive, you said from.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What's he telling them on the way?
Speaker 1:I'll tell you. Okay, chris says that on the drive there for that hour he was contemplating killing himself after he killed everyone else. He did look back at one point and he just saw Bella and Cece like comforting each other. They were crying and just Bella was a really good big sister is one thing that I read quite a bit and she was always helping Cece. He said he didn't want them to know that Shanann was beneath them, so he did put her in two trash bags and the sheet. So I don't think they knew until the last second that that was their mom. Not that it makes it any better, but yeah, there wasn't much thought in his head, though. He just was angry and rageful and the epitome of rage.
Speaker 2:That's what was going through his head Again, this going on, if he killed them all there, yeah, that doesn't make sense, right like you, you did plan things, you did think about them not wanting to recognize that the item under their feet was their mom, so you did take steps to prevent that, which is a degree of, again, compassion or something yeah so like it's not just a Hulk out.
Speaker 1:Wolverine Berserker rage. I can believe the first one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he does say that he felt like something else was controlling him that day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's giving you.
Speaker 1:During the interview, chris is in his cell and the investigators see pictures of shenan and the kids all over, like his walls. I don't know how many he has, because multiple pictures of them. Chris said that he talks to them every day and he reads books to his little girls oh, that's audacious of anything that they would want to hear from him yeah, exactly when he was talking about the affair with Nicole Kessinger, he admitted to it.
Speaker 1:He did finally say like yep, I was having an affair, because he goes back and forth with admitting that. But I think finally now he's like yes, that happened, might as well.
Speaker 2:Nothing to lose now.
Speaker 1:But he makes it a point to say that she pursued him, so I guess it's OK. Yeah it's okay. Yeah. Chris then adds in this interview that he resented shenan for taking him away from his family and he goes on to paint shenan as controlling and their family had money issues because of her and her spending, and he just starts to blame her for him killing her. I guess yeah typical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he never said why he killed them like really why. I think that's what some of these investigators were wanting. They wanted the why they're like, but why you had normal marital issues. You didn't have anything more than that. You could have just left you don't need the way.
Speaker 2:That's where. That's where all conspiracies come from. Conspiracy theories of it makes sense to me. It's the why Things just happen. You don't like the workings of anyone's mind are indecipherable and like what rationale could this guy say that would make you go? Oh okay, I get it now. Thanks. True Like that's what I'm always wondering when people are like, well, what's the motive, like what answer are they going to give you? That's going to totally click for you to go.
Speaker 2:Okay, I would do the same thing in that situation yeah there isn't the why you can live without who, what, where, when, how that's what I care about that's a good point to take. Yeah, because you're not going to know asking why presupposes that there's a answer to be given yeah and there isn't. I don't think there is yeah I think it makes in his head Just like everyone's actions make sense to themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we don't always know the why, or we never know the why and we have to stop trying to figure it out. You typically just hurt the families at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all you do, yeah.
Speaker 1:I did find a recent documentary that was uploaded to YouTube about six months ago, but I've looked at the original airing of this documentary on TV and that was in 2021.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:This is one of the more recent things I could find on him, and this documentary talks more about his life behind bars, and there is yet another confession he does. I don't really care about him, but it is kind of nice to know how he's struggling, though, so we'll talk about it a little bit. In his first prison, like I said, was offered suggestions to kill himself. He needed constant protection, but wasn't really getting it, and early on, he was isolated for 23 hours a day. He was only allowed out to eat and exercise. Yeah, it didn't last forever, but he was like that in the beginning. After he moved to the high security prison in wisconsin, it was okay at first. Eventually, people did realize who he was, though, and he had guards around him pretty much 24 7 whenever he was out of his cell yeah sure, even the aryan gang didn't want him.
Speaker 1:Right, he did get protection from those.
Speaker 2:Those guards?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think just maybe a higher security. They had more people, they had more eyes everywhere. Just more staff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Even though he was going through all this not really having the best time in prison he was getting fan mail.
Speaker 2:Of course. Yes, kill my babies too.
Speaker 1:Yep, they didn't believe that he did it, even though he admitted it and he pled guilty.
Speaker 2:I'm guessing he was a fairly good looking guy.
Speaker 1:Average, Very average. I mean he was thin.
Speaker 2:He looked kind of healthy. I'm guessing he had a full head of hair. I mean the most things I. He wasn't ugly, I'm guessing.
Speaker 1:Average looking, I guess. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, average An average looking guy. Even though he pled guilty, these women still thought there was something wrong with the trial. They thought it was weird how fast it went Only three months with a case like this, normally trials like this last years.
Speaker 2:There wasn't even a trial, he pleaded.
Speaker 1:Or, yes, normally cases like this last years, there's one woman that was in this documentary, that was the main fangirl.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:She was saying that those were her reasons. Like well, it's weird to us that, like the case only lasted three months and there's no actual evidence that says that he did, I'm like except for him saying he did it.
Speaker 2:How many cases do you follow? To say that this is so rare. What's what's your average, what's the norm for you? How many cases have you looked at to say that this is?
Speaker 1:unusual.
Speaker 2:Shut up.
Speaker 1:The interesting thing, though, is that Chris doesn't respond to this fan mail. He throws most of it away. This one woman he didn't throw her letter away, he gave it to his cellmate. They ended up having like a weird relationship, but as soon as he, as soon as the cellmate got out of prison and they tried to do like an actual relationship, she left because she was just using him to talk to Chris.
Speaker 2:If I was a cellmate, I would have just written as if I were Chris. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was so silly, so stupid. Through all of this fan mail, though, there was one letter that came through that was not fan mail.
Speaker 2:Hate mail.
Speaker 1:Not hate mail. Someone that did say I believe you're guilty, but I still want to hear your story. Okay, she's an author.
Speaker 2:Ah, here we go.
Speaker 1:Sherilyn Cato.
Speaker 1:I don't know the name C-A-D-L-E is her last name and I never looked up how to pronounce it. I'm just realizing right now, so I hope it's pronounced Cato. Her first name is Sherilyn though. Okay, so we'll call her Sherilyn. She was touched by the case in the way that, like you and I, would be touched, not in a fan way. She also was interested in the why and wanted more details because he wasn't really giving too much, so she was curious and wanted to write about it. He didn't respond right away. She had to write him a few letters and then finally he responded.
Speaker 2:And he said in his letter to her that he wanted to clear his wife's name.
Speaker 1:What does that mean he didn't want people to think that Shanann killed her daughters.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, I forgot that a few people thought he did that yeah yeah, I'm gonna clear her name of the thing that no one believed exactly, yeah, yes okay, yeah, I was like what was she accused of? Oh yeah, I forgot that. He is dumbass accused.
Speaker 1:He thinks yep yeah, no one believes you, but but okay, sure it's like the opposite of the Jared Leto accusations.
Speaker 2:Of course we believe you Like, obviously. We're just waiting for those allegations to come out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, no one's even surprised anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, I thought those allegations were made years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I just assumed.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So Sherilyn visited Chris for the first time in April of 2019. And their communication lasts between April and October of 2019. Chris, when they met, chris admitted quite a bit to Sherilyn. He said that when Shanann told him about her pregnancy he was not happy. He didn't want the kid because he wanted to do his affair with nicole why did you get her pregnant then?
Speaker 2:exactly that's what I thought too.
Speaker 1:You know how it works, stop well, he's stupid, so maybe he doesn't yeah, chris said that he tried poisoning shenan to induce a miscarriage when they were in north carolina together um you should read his Bible.
Speaker 2:There's a recipe in there that God gives on how to do that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's right. God gives a recipe on abortion.
Speaker 2:How to make a tea.
Speaker 1:Well, he was drugging her with oxycodone. Oh, so you know that's nice.
Speaker 2:Here's a drug. I don't know what it'll do, but it's a drug.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she just got very sick and that was it. I mean good that you know she didn't have a miscarriage. I mean anyway, but yes, and then, as Chris continues to talk to Sherilyn, he starts saying how he's a changed man, he's found God, it's weird how God's always hiding in prison. Always in prison it.
Speaker 2:Would have been a lot more useful to you before you did the thing that sent you to prison. But God's tricky like that.
Speaker 1:Chris also starts talking about some demonic things and saying that it was something dark or some dark creatures or evil spirits that were around him making him do it.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's pulling a Berkowitz. He said that he was maybe possessed or he was influenced um maybe I was, and well, he was kind of just alluding to shock and approach all these little things and sherilyn could tell that he was wanting the book to go that direction, that he was possessed or he was demonically influenced or something?
Speaker 1:yes, she did not believe him at all and she did believe that he probably found god because he was like quoting scripture. I mean, at the very least he read the bible a lot, but the demonic bit not at all.
Speaker 1:And again on the internet I found a lot of people like on facebook and Reddit, not actual articles, but people just saying he was possessed or there were demons in the house, or you know, amity that like and I'm like where is that story coming from? Because this is really all he says and then that's it. He doesn't like I don't know, he doesn't swear by it, he just I think he saw an opportunity to rewrite his history and that's it.
Speaker 2:I'm not responsible yeah I'm just as much a victim as they were.
Speaker 1:This was done to me yeah, very strange you know, all villains start as victims yeah, yeah, after their initial visit they maintained contact via letters and sherilyn mentions in a documentary that I watched, that the letters these inmates could write that they did write, whenever they're leaving the facility they're not read or opened.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's normal or not, but All incoming mail is supposed to Incoming is she did say incoming was looked at, but not outgoing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't look into this honestly.
Speaker 2:I don't actually know about that. I'm taking her word for it.
Speaker 1:Let me know.
Speaker 2:I guess, Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:In these letters, chris begins to confess to Sherilyn. He said that he has decided to free himself, which is why he's unloading.
Speaker 2:I was hoping he was going to literally free himself.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no, no Spiritually.
Speaker 2:Oh well, physically Unburden his soul.
Speaker 1:Chris admitted to Sherilyn in one of his letters that the murders were premeditated. Ah Just like you were suspecting. He says that he put Bella and Cece to bed and then he just waited because he knew that that would be the last time he tucked in his kids.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:He said he could not stop himself from what he knew was going to occur the following morning. That morning, when Shanann came home, chris said that he had sex with Shanann in order to disarm her.
Speaker 1:He then leaves the room and goes to Bella and stacy's room where he smothers them oh, so he smothered them first he says he smothers them so they wouldn't hear him murdering shenan okay, damn, this is yeah yeah, he never brought up the affair in this letter, but he does say that him and shenan get into an argument about marriage and their future and that he doesn't love her, and then Shanann said he would never see the kids again and then that's when he strangled her.
Speaker 1:He continues to say in this letter how he knows how to choke and where the jugular vein is and he knows how to press on it to cut off oxygen to the brain, and he said that Shanann blacked out quickly. He also said that he drugged her again that night too or that morning with the oxycodone. And this was interesting to me because I didn't look this up, I didn't think about it until the last minute. I'm wondering they didn't do an autopsy on her because the police were speculating that she was drugged, because there were no defense wounds on her, like she didn't look like she fought.
Speaker 2:What they probably did, because all homicides had to have an autopsy done, but they don't necessarily test for every drug.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's not specifically requested, like they test for the big ones, you know alcohol, morphine, cocaine okay but if something's really specific that they'd like know to look for that okay and they so maybe they didn't have okay, because I saw police being like no, it's, we're pretty sure that she was drenna. Like pretty sure, what do you mean? Like well, there's no defense wounds on her. Like she didn't look like she fought back at all yeah, so she must have been somehow sedated.
Speaker 2:Scratches something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's weird, though, because he recants this piece of information, the drugging her like. He goes on and off, but that's why. I said like his details go back and forth.
Speaker 2:I don't know story of his, I believe, between this one of killing the kids first well, hold on.
Speaker 1:There's more to this story. Okay, so he's in the bedroom with shenan. As chris is in his room with shenan, he realizes that the kids are awake oh and he says in his letter he didn't know how they woke back up because he thought they were dead.
Speaker 2:They both woke. He mistakenly killed both of them. Right, miss Irf. I should say, failed to kill both of them.
Speaker 1:Yes, Right, I don't know. I mean it's all I don't. He says smother, so I'm assuming with a pillow?
Speaker 2:Yeah, not with a not. He says smother, so I'm assuming with a pillow, yeah, not with a.
Speaker 1:So I'm guessing, if that is true, it's possible that he waited until they just stopped.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which they're still breathing. After you lose consciousness, you have to keep it for a few more minutes for your new flatline, right, and if he's not looking at their faces and he can't see them.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, I don't know. So I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:He says.
Speaker 1:He then takes everyone into his truck, like we know, and he goes to the work site, proceeds to go through and he keeps his story the same there. In his letter, though, he did write that he rolled Shanann out of the truck. I don't know just the crass way of talking about it. And as he was doing that, the girls were asking what's wrong with mommy? What are you doing with mommy?
Speaker 2:Okay, so they were still alive the whole way to the site.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, the story to the site is all the same. He just gives a little more of what the girls were doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Now we can probably assume that it was premeditated, at least to some level.
Speaker 2:He tried killing the kids initially.
Speaker 1:I think he did drug Shanann. If nothing else, I think he drugged her ahead of time and knew that he was going to do it. I think he knew.
Speaker 2:Doesn't get much more premeditated than drugging someone.
Speaker 1:Right. Sherilyn said after all of this, after she learned of all this, that he just wanted to kill them and have his new life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what she got from all of it yeah, he's having an affair, he's frustrated with the life he has. It's just for whatever reason he chose this as opposed to divorce yep, it's stupid, it doesn't make sense but it's what happened, yeah yeah, it's exactly what happened and he admits it. And yeah, the details get a little foggy, but that's what he did and, like I say, the person that's statistically most likely to kill any one other person is their spouse.
Speaker 1:So chris is still continuing his multiple life sentences in dodge correctional facility in wisconsin. He's only like seven years into that right now, but he did ruin lives that are still alive today. Like I mentioned, shanann's family had to deal with quite a bit of harassment from these internet people coming in and thinking that they know best, and to the point where they were calling her dad. They were commenting on things, they finding things. He had to make a public announcement to say please stop, please leave us alone. We're mourning, we were trying to live our lives and I just I don't get why people have to do that. If you have an opinion, great, keep it to yourself. There's strength in shutting up everyone has main character syndrome.
Speaker 1:No one cares about you. No one. No one cares about me. It's freeing you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 2:We're a nation of sociopaths.
Speaker 1:God.
Speaker 2:That all want the whole world to revolve around them.
Speaker 1:Well, on top of this, Nicole Kessinger. I saw two different things with her. She, for sure, has changed her name and moved.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:That's both theories, but one of them is that she did that on her own because she was getting harassed and messed with so much, which probably. The other one is that the police helped her put her into witness protection. Either way, she's gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:She's out of this whole world. She was like fuck this, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I had nothing to do with this. Jeffrey Dahmer's brother did that too. He changed his name and no one knows where he's at.
Speaker 1:Sherilyn Cato published her book that is titled the Murders of Christopher Watts. I did not read it, I just found out about it kind of at the end here.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming it says a lot more of what he said. It's probably up and down quite a bit. I will say the most I got from all of this was the friendship. I don't know where Chris would be without Shanann's friends to call the police and say, hey, what's going on? Because it was Nicole Atkinson and there were other friends too that were calling and helping with as well. Nicole was the one that lived closer and could be kind of the boots on the ground, but her other friends were all a part of it too and they were all like this is wrong, this is messed up. And they stepped over Chris and they said no, our friend is missing and you're not helping. Step aside. And it was a group of women that the police listened to and they did their due diligence, like it worked out. But I'm assuming that chris probably was going to go to work that day. He already started the cleaning process. Yeah, come home, maybe get rid of everything else. And then I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean I think eventually he would have yeah been found out because he seems a little dumb yeah, because how is he going to explain just his family?
Speaker 1:gone yeah without.
Speaker 2:Apparently he was too stupid to even bring his wife's like wallet and purse right cell phone with him when he got rid of her body. So I mean, how's he, how's the guy going to explain his family just disappearing with in the thin?
Speaker 1:air like.
Speaker 2:She doesn't turn up anywhere. She's close to her family. She doesn't have her wallet.
Speaker 1:She's never spending yeah, money like nothing her medicine yeah, like I probably would have taken long for probably not, but I think I don't know.
Speaker 2:I just really like I'm not discrediting the friends. Yeah, really step in and yeah I just I don't know.
Speaker 1:I have friends that I've checked in on before, even regulars. At certain jobs I've worked at I've had the police do welfare checks. They haven't been around in a while because I am extra and I will always be extra, because the one time I'm not you're gonna die always gonna be extra, don't care. But that's it. That's chris watts. There's nothing paranormal, nothing other than a man who, despite his best, efforts, didn't know how to handle his emotions and just get a divorce guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just get a divorce. That's it. Well, see you guys next time. I don't know how to sign off on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll see you in the internet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're never going to see you because we're a podcast, but yeah, I guess, follow us on all the things instagram, blue sky. Oh, if you do have suggestions on any stories or any families. They don't yeah cases or just interesting families crime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm fucked up in a non-criminal way, yeah yes, I want to do more interesting ones that are less true crimey. I want to be a little more uplifted, I guess. So send in your suggestions, comment or leave a message on Instagram, or scroll down wherever you're streaming right now, and you can click on our email address and send us that way. All right, I think that's it. Yeah, said it all. Let's go, let's go Bye.
