The Brothers Grimm: Part 3

As we reach the final chapter in our Brothers Grimm trilogy, we follow Jacob and Wilhelm through their golden years at the University of Berlin. We see how these scholarly siblings who have already transformed folklore collection into a science, continue to make history even in their twilight years. 

Sources:

The German Fairytale Route, The Romantic Movement, The Polar Star, 

Hans Christian Andersen, Frankfurt National Assembly, Grimms Fairytales 

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to the Final Grimm Chapter
• 8:56 Moving to Berlin University
• 20:14 Recognition and Hans Christian Andersen
• 31:49 Wilhelm's Death and Jacob's Grief
• 39:03 Jacob's Final Years and Legacy
• 43:57 The Grimm Legacy and German Identity

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:13

Hello everyone. I'm Sarah. And I'm Sam. And you're listening to Borrowed Bones. A podcast about fucked up, interesting, and toxic families. I wish we could harmonize that.

SPEAKER_01: 0:26

Like you do borrowed bones, and I'll be like, borrowed bones.

unknown: 0:31

Or something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 0:34

I'd have to do some like smelly cat thing though, like Phoebe, because I'm getting over a cold, so I feel a little nasally today. Borrowed bones. Borrowed. I can't do it. Come on. Borrowed bone. I'm flat as hell. Same, same here. Okay. Today, aside from harmonizing, we are in our third and final part of The Brothers Grimm.

unknown: 1:03

Woo!

SPEAKER_00: 1:03

Yay! The second one was very history heavy, which I personally really enjoy. It was. It was, I liked it. It was just a lot of information. Yeah. Well, these boys did a lot. They sure did. And I've said this a million times, but like eight months of researching them, and I still feel like I can learn more. But anyway. I'm gonna do a deep dive after this on some more stuff. Yes. What's crazy though is it's hard to find a deep dive. I have books for you if you want them. Books are really where it's at. I'm not a reader. I mean, I like to read, but yeah, I really my attention span is not not reading. I'll read the same page a hundred times and then I'll give up and be like, okay, I'm all done. Yeah. Yeah, it was hard. I gave up a few times. So there's no documentaries or anything. I mean, not that I found. There's a few like in their later years as adults. There's not much about them growing up, though. There's not much about their family, their siblings. No Lottie. Yeah. We love Lottie.

SPEAKER_01: 2:03

We love Lottie.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04

In part two, we left off with Wilhelm and Jacob moving to Berlin to work at the University of Berlin. Okay. And this is 1841.

SPEAKER_01: 2:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 2:16

And they're leaving Kassel. Yep. Which is where they did most of their living and growing up. It's where most of their family is. Their mother and dad are buried there. Um, oh, they're also working on the German dictionary right now. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 2:31

Yeah. The com the one they were commissioned to do together.

SPEAKER_00: 2:35

Yes. All right. So now we're in Berlin. And Jacob is 56 and Wilhelm is 55.

SPEAKER_01: 2:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 2:44

They were able to work on their side projects a lot more at the University of Berlin, unlike when they were in Gottingen, because they had more work to do in at that university in Gottingen. They had to be professors and librarians. But at the University of Berlin, they're they have a lot more freedom. I think the Gottingen Seven that happened really polarized the Grimms and those seven professors, right, throughout Germany. And so the people that loved them loved them, but then people hated them because of the political um turmoil? Not turmoil. Sure. Political tenseness. Yeah. So the University of Berlin are people that really like them. So they're like, just come here, do whatever you want, guys.

SPEAKER_01: 3:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:33

It's chill.

SPEAKER_01: 3:33

Yeah. We're just chilling over here.

SPEAKER_00: 3:35

Yeah. They lectured periodically, kind of whenever they wanted. Wilhelm was a great lecturer and he loved it, but Jacob did it just whenever he, I guess, was bored or something. They weren't full-time professors. They're kind of not in retirement, but they're finally able to do their hobbies. Okay. And they did publish the fifth edition of Children's and Household Tales. So they're still doing revisions and adding. Yes. It's crazy. It never ends. It just keeps going. In 1844, Jacob was awarded the Swedish Order of the Polar Star. Wow. And this award was created in 1748 in Sweden to recognize personal endeavors for Sweden or for Swedish interests. They felt that Jacob's work doing the fairy tales and whatnot benefited Sweden as well as Germany, as well as France. Because again, he did get stories from there as well.

SPEAKER_01: 4:40

Sure. See. Do you also do you know which stories specifically maybe came from Sweden?

SPEAKER_00: 4:45

No, dang. I didn't look that up. Man. Yeah. Okay. There's so much else. I'm just kidding. You can look it up yourself. Good. Anyway, Jacob also received a bunch of other awards around this time, and he was just finally getting that recognition that he really deserved. Like I said, he's always been well received in the scholarly world, but now that he's older, his life's works are starting to really get recognition. They're finally being noticed in a bigger way. Also, what was interesting when they were living in Berlin, Jacob Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson were kind of friends. Really? Yes. Wow. Mm-hmm. We're in 1846 now. So Hans, if you are familiar, but if those that are listening are not familiar, Hans Christian Andersen, he wrote fairy tales as well. Not as well. He wrote fairy tales. The Grimms did not write fairy tales. Okay. They didn't. Let's make that clear. They did not. They collected Hans wrote them. Yes. The Disney movie Frozen is based off of Hans Christian Andersen's story, The Snow Queen. And he also wrote other fairy tales like The Princess and the Pea, Thumbelina, and our mother's favorite, The Little Mermaid. I did not know that about her.

SPEAKER_01: 6:07

Yeah. How do you know that?

SPEAKER_00: 6:09

Well, I don't know if it was her personal favorite, but she said it was her favorite because it's the came out the same year on VHS that we were born.

SPEAKER_01: 6:17

Oh.

SPEAKER_00: 6:17

Yeah. So I don't know if that turned into her favorite because of us, but she always said that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:24

That's so nice.

SPEAKER_00: 6:26

Hans introduced himself first to Jacob Grimm. Kind of. Okay. He he lives in Copenhagen. That's where he's from. And he visited Germany, Berlin, just because he was there. He did not let Jacob know he was coming. Hans had heard of Jacob before Jacob heard of him. So he goes to Jacob's house and is like, hey, I'm here. But Jacob wasn't available at the time. He wasn't there. So they never saw each other.

SPEAKER_01: 6:51

Huh.

SPEAKER_00: 6:52

Jacob was told that Hans Christian Andersen came and visited, and Jacob didn't know who he was. And then he figured it out. He did some research because he's Jacob. Yep. And he was like, all right, I know who he is now. Okay. Once Jacob figured out who Hans Christian Anderson was, it's been a few weeks since Hans tried to visit him. So a few weeks later, Jacob goes to Copenhagen. I'm having a hard time saying that because my nose and my nasaliness. Copenhagen. Copenhagen. Copenhagen. Jacob goes to Copenhagen to visit Hans, and they did meet. And Jacob assured Hans that, yes, I do know who you are. And I am aware of some of your works. Yes. Got you. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01: 7:39

Does he become like a thropple with the brothers?

SPEAKER_00: 7:42

No, but I think they have a few visits here and there because then in the winter of 1846, Hans visits both brothers in Berlin. And Wilhelm was really excited about this because he finally gets to meet him. And Hans Christian Andersen read aloud his stories to Wilhelm and Jacob. Oh my God. Yes. That's amazing. They got to be told stories from Hans's mouth.

SPEAKER_01: 8:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 8:08

Those boys. I know. Man. I know. Writing Sir Walter Scott in Scotland for fairy tales and then just hanging out with Hans Christian Anderson. What a time to be alive. Napoleon's just an annoyance. Well, Napoleon actually carved pretty much who they are as people. Yeah. But damn, they lived in quite a time. It's crazy. But then a couple years later, in 1848, another revolution in Paris. Awesome. France needs to just calm down. They need to relax. All the history of France. Relax. So of course the German kingdoms got worried again, and the king fortified Berlin. And Wilhelm and Jacob were caught right in the middle of it all, yet again. They had to barricade themselves inside their apartment until the fighting stopped. The Grims also would give like their soldiers on their side food, water, whatever they could to help. They're just in it all the way, all the time. In the aftermath of the revolution, Jacob was called to represent a voting district in Western Germany at the Frankfurt National Assembly. Yeah. So this is the first freely elected parliament for the German-speaking lands. So they were trying to make a unified Germany at this time. And they're like, okay, this is our chance to get together. It didn't work. They're not unified yet, but they're trying. And Jacob is there. Jacob's there for it. He was 63 at this time. Okay. And in some of his own writing, he's like, I'm only here as an old fart. It's just symbolic. Like he didn't really do anything, but a lot of um, there were a few other professors from the Gottingen 7 as well. So it was more of a representation. Sure. Which is still important. Yeah. Jacob also completed his two-volume history of the German language in this year of 1848. It was a big year. The Paris, another revolution, trying to unify Germany. And then he's like, I got this big old history of the German language ready to go. And he said that that was his greatest work.

unknown: 10:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_00: 10:30

History of the German language.

SPEAKER_01: 10:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 10:32

Mm-hmm. And they're still working on that German dictionary, too. Still happening.

SPEAKER_01: 10:37

Still in the background. It's still happening.

SPEAKER_00: 10:38

All the time. Mm-hmm. On Jacob's 67th birthday in January of 1852, the brothers finally received the first proofs of the dictionary. And they would work on this dictionary for 12 hours a day, they said. But the dictionary would only be released in installments because they would get like a few letters done, and then that would be released. So the first installment was published in 1852. And that was 14 years after the announcement of it. So it's already been 14 years. So there was no other German dictionary before this?

SPEAKER_01: 11:18

Or did they just like here? You guys are good at writing things and storytelling and you know language in general.

SPEAKER_00: 11:26

So here you go. I never looked into that part. We need to look it up now because I can't move on without knowing. Get your phone out. Okay, look it up. When was the first German dictionary published? You got it?

SPEAKER_01: 11:41

I got it. So it says the first true German dictionary was published in 1561. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 11:48

So well, they're doing something with this German dictionary.

SPEAKER_01: 11:50

They did something with the dictionary.

SPEAKER_00: 11:52

Yep. Like I said, I could not get deep into all of their projects, and this is a long one. So I'm assuming it's just more comprehensive, has more details to it, has more notes to it, has more definitions to it. I'm guessing it's just a very in-depth dictionary. That's what I gathered from it anyway, that it is like a big old dictionary.

SPEAKER_01: 12:13

Yeah. That's what we're gonna call it.

SPEAKER_00: 12:15

It's a big old German dictionary.

SPEAKER_01: 12:17

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 12:20

All right. Two years later, in 1854, finally the complete first volume of the dictionary was published, and it contained letter A and part of letter B. And the first volume was over 1,800 pages. What? Yes. So they have like notes and they have more than definitions. Yeah. Way more than that going on. History of the language, and sure. It's a lot that they've got in that.

unknown: 12:52

Man. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 12:54

And by this time now, like I said, the brothers are getting older, Jacob's 67, Wilhelm 66. They fell into a nice routine in Berlin. They would work in their studies, they each had their own study, and they were often going in and out of each other's offices to get books from one another. They always had books scattered about. They would spend all day working on this dictionary. And as they were still getting older, they stopped lecturing students and they slowly slipped away from going to social gatherings and they just focused on their small group of friends and family. Oh, isn't that cute? Yeah, that's cute.

SPEAKER_01: 13:34

Do they live together?

SPEAKER_00: 13:35

Yeah, they still live together. So they live together. With Dorthin and like Dortchin. Yeah, Herman and Rudolph and Augusta. Yeah, they're all there. They're all there. Okay. Uncle Jacob, Papa Jacob. Papa Jacob. Yeah. Their younger brother, Carl, passed away while living in Castle in 1852. Wilhelm's son, Herman, he stopped studying law and he began writing novellas and dramas.

SPEAKER_01: 14:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 14:05

Herman also studied art history and he would go on to become an art historian and a professor at the University of Berlin. Yay, Herman. Just yeah. I like to know where people end up. Yeah. Herman's younger brother, Rudolph, he went for a military career, and the youngest daughter, Augusta, she stayed home and she would help Dortchen with the household. Okay. So the boys went off, and then now as adults, we have Wilhelm, Jacob, Dortchen, and Augusta in the same home. Okay. Scholars and dignitaries would visit the Grimms regularly as they got older. And these visitors would often say that Dorton was very loving. Wilhelm was warm-hearted, and that Jacob could be intimidating, but he was quick-witted with a hearty laugh. That sounds like Jacob. Yep. That's him all right. Like one of those like teddy bears under the hard exterior, you know? Right. Their fairy tales, the children's and household tales, would go on to have seven total editions that the Grimms would publish.

SPEAKER_01: 15:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 15:10

The seventh and final one being published in 1857. I say final lightly though, because more editions were published like post their death, but they published seven.

SPEAKER_01: 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 16:59

I gotta get myself this book. I know. I gotta find it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:04

They never saw true glory or fame while they were alive. Like I said, they were respected in their circles. Academics and scholars knew who they were, but they weren't like just off the streets, people like, hey Jacob, hey Wilhelm, thanks for the stories. Yeah, like it just didn't happen that way. Yeah. They never made much money off of their works while they were alive, and they spent most of their lives struggling to provide a comfortable life for their family. Like kind of reminds me of like Edgar Allan Poe and like the classical musicians and the artists that just they suffer through life. And they don't see the benefits or they don't reap the rewards. Nope.

SPEAKER_01: 17:43

Not at all.

SPEAKER_00: 17:44

In 1858, there was this man that marketed a book of fairy tales for himself, but it was plagiarized from the Grimms. And the Grimms did take legal action. But by the time this man was forced to pay them anything, both Wilhelm and Jacob were passed away.

SPEAKER_01: 18:02

Aww.

SPEAKER_00: 18:03

They never even got that. When they finally started fighting for their rights. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:07

That's sad.

SPEAKER_00: 18:09

December 16th, 1859, Wilhelm passes away at the age of 73.

SPEAKER_01: 18:15

Oh, Wilhelm went first. Oh he's a sickly guy.

SPEAKER_00: 18:20

That's true. A few days before his death, there was a cluster of boils that developed on his back that required surgery. Oh. It was called something specific, and I don't know how to say it, but it said that it started from like bacteria and that created the boils. Okay. Was that like MRSA? No, it was like with a C. Uctus. That's not it, but it was like something c yeah. Okay. But it said boils and bacteria. Okay. And then when he grew feverish after the surgery, Jacob got worried and he sat near him, and Jacob counted Wilhelm's breaths as he had done so many times throughout Wilhelm's life. Jacob would always sit by him when he got sick and like, Oh, that makes me so many.

SPEAKER_01: 19:07

Don't cry because I'm making me sick.

SPEAKER_00: 19:10

I'm gonna cry. Don't, don't.

SPEAKER_02: 19:12

I'm gonna cry.

SPEAKER_00: 19:13

There's more.

SPEAKER_02: 19:14

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00: 19:16

Wilhelm became delirious and he thought that Jacob was a picture and not actually present. Oh. Yeah. Wilhelm's funeral was the morning of December 20th. And when his coffin was set down, Jacob threw a handful of earth on him. Yeah. Jacob said that he felt half of him was gone. Oh no. I know. I know. There's more. Oh no. In July of 1860, seven months after Wilhelm's death, Jacob was saying a memorial speech at the Academy of Sciences in Berlin. And he was speaking about Wilhelm. Jacob said how he and Wilhelm shared a bed when they were schoolboys, and then they had two beds in the same room with desks while they were at a university. And then later in life, they had two desks in the same study, and then they had two studies under the same roof. Aw. Yeah, he's just reflecting on their life too. Yeah. And now at this point, whenever Jacob would hold children's and household tales, he said he felt as if he could see Wilhelm on every page. Okay, that's great. And he acknowledged that Wilhelm was the driving force behind the fairy tales for quite a few decades. He was like, I lost it, and Wilhelm kept kept it. Wilhelm did great. Yeah. After Wilhelm's death, Jacob and his nephew Herman registered to copyright the children's household tales so that no one else could steal it again. I don't know this to be a fact, but I believe it to be true. I think Jacob did this because he doesn't want Wilhelm's work being stolen. Yeah. I think he's protecting his brother. I think so too. I don't think he cares about himself that much.

SPEAKER_01: 21:05

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:06

Jacob left the door to Wilhelm's study open and his papers and books untouched. He did eventually move his library into Wilhelm's study, but he never touched Wilhelm's desk. He left it right where it was. But that German dictionary still needs to be worked on. And then the damn dictionary. It's still there. It's still there. Oh yeah. This fucking dictionary. They hated it. They ended up hating this thing. They hated it. Uh Jacob is now working on letters E and F. Oh my god, they're only at E and F. Wilhelm completed all of letter D before he died. Oh, good. So he did that. Okay. And in the preface of the second volume of the dictionary that was published in 1860, Jacob kind of apologizes to the readers. He says in this preface, he says, Wilhelm did most of the writing with the first volume. And I hope that the reader still is okay with my style. Wilhelm was more visual and descriptive than Jacob was, and Jacob knew that. And Jacob in his preface said, you know, you could really see what Wilhelm meant. He would show you through his words. And Jacob was just more academic and uniform in his writing. And as I've mentioned in the previous uh episodes, Jacob always got onto Wilhelm for not being academic enough in his writing. He was like, you gotta be more historical. We're trying to preserve, we're not creating, right?

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 22:44

But now Jacob says he's happy to see his brother's voice jump off the page. Yeah.

unknown: 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:52

Jacob. I know. He's really deep soul. He is a deep soul. I think that's why he has a harsh exterior. Because once you crack it, it's like you're all in. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Their younger brother Ludwig would pass away in 1863. He's the artist. Okay. I don't know how all of the brothers and sisters died, but I'd just like to note that they passed away as well. Now Jacob is the oldest Grimm, as he always has been, and he's the last Grimm remaining. Because their brother Ferdinand passed away in 1848. Yeah. Man. Yeah. Aside from his like niece and nephews, and Dortchen's still alive, but he's the last one of his family. Right. Yeah. In the late summer of 1863, Jacob took a break from his work and he traveled with Dortchen and Augusta to the mountains of northern Germany. Took a little break. Good. Upon his return, he got a cold. And that cold turned into an inflamed liver. Okay. That's what it was described as. So I'm not sure what that means. Alright. Yep. I don't know. And he was treated with leeches and calomel. It was a mercury chloride mineral, like white powder thing. Mercury.

SPEAKER_01: 24:11

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00: 24:11

Yeah. That's probably why I don't know what it is. Yeah, it's not used anymore, I don't think. Yeah. Yeah, I looked at I was like, what the fuck? Mercury is not common. No. No. Jacob would get better during the day, but he would break out into fevers at night. And the day sorry. The day before he passed away, he got out of bed, he leaned against a wicker chair, and made his way to the window. Augusta tried to talk to him, but he did not respond, and instead he fell against her. He was having a stroke. He grew feverish and slept into the next day, and upon awakening, his right side was paralyzed along with his left hand. As he lay dying, he was conscious, and he seemed to understand what was being said to him, but he could not talk.

SPEAKER_01: 25:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 25:01

He pointed to a picture of Wilhelm. And when they gave it to him, he brought it close to his eyes and he set it down on the bed. I know. Oh no. I've been with them for so long. Now they're dead. The fuck? Defer. So Jacob died on Sunday, September 20th, 1863, at the age of 78, about four years after Wilhelm. Jacob was surrounded by his books that he and Wilhelm amassed over their lifetime. Okay. And Jacob was always concerned about what would happen to their collection once they passed. I mean, that takes a long time. Right. So nephew Herman, he kept a few hundred books. About a thousand books were sold off. Wow. And the rest were kept all intact and given to the library at the University of Berlin. And I looked quickly and I'm pretty sure you can still see these books. I mean, they're still there. I don't know if you can touch them or see them, but they're still at the university. And I guess they have like handwritten notes in them from the brothers. Yeah. Probably a lot from Jacob, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_02: 26:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:09

But I think that's cool. I would like to see that. Yeah, that is really cool. I think that's that's really cool. Yeah. Should totally go there. Oh, we have so much. Um I'm gonna tell you what we're gonna do. Okay, great. You just wait, can't wait. Jacob was buried next to his brother in Berlin. And Jacob's grave was adorned with flowers, and there was a wreath with white roses and ribbons that said to the friend of the youth from thankful children. Oh I know. I think by this point he's old enough. He's 78, right?

SPEAKER_02: 27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:49

And I think that these kids now are old enough to have grown up with the Grim fairy tales.

SPEAKER_01: 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:56

Because he started in the 30s when he was in his 30s, and then these kids were younger, and now they're probably adult children, and they're like, I remember the Grimm. So that's at the end of their life is when they're getting this notoriety. But that's how it works. It takes a while. It does. After Jacob's death, Dortchen and Augusta moved into another apartment in Berlin, and Dortchen will pass away from a respiratory illness in 1867.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 28:23

And neither Rudolph nor Augusta married. Only Herman married, and he and his wife never had children. Huh. None of Wilhelm's kids had kids. None of them. Jacob didn't have kids. Wilhelm's kids didn't have kids. So there's no direct line. That's crazy. Lottie had kids, so they're still Grimms, but there's no direct descendants.

SPEAKER_01: 28:48

That's sad. Isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 28:50

Man. I mean, I'm not I mean, I get it. Yeah, like I'm not about breeding just to breed, like think about it, but also like damn. Yeah. Damn. Rudolph passed away in 1889, and Herman died in 1901, and Augusta died in 1919. Okay. So that is their lives. Wow. Yes. And there's a lot that happened after them. Not a whole lot, not too crazy. Okay. But after they died, their impact definitely lasted. Their work became even more well known as a beacon for Germans to turn toward whenever their way of life was at risk.

SPEAKER_01: 29:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_00: 29:31

In the late 1800s and the early 1900s, the Grimms became more publicly well known. Like, for example, there's a park in Berlin where a fountain with sculptures of the Grimms fairy tale creat creatures.

SPEAKER_02: 29:46

Creatures.

SPEAKER_00: 29:47

Fairy tale creatures. Um sculptures of the Grimms fairy tale characters were started in this park being built in the 1890s, and it was completed in 1913. Now we're stepping further into the 20th century around World War II time. There's no more kingdoms, Prussia's gone. We have Germany now. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 30:08

But the boys weren't a part of that, so that's why we're not talking about it.

SPEAKER_00: 30:11

Yeah, no. Yeah. I honestly looked up real quick and I was like, I don't want to get into this. I feel so bad for the people of Germany that have to learn German history. It is a lot. Yeah. Oh, at least America's young. Like we don't have that much history to go through. Yeah. Man. So during World War II time, their children's and household tales was marketed broadly in Germany. And there were select grim tales that began to appear in school bird school books. Okay. It's hard for me to talk because I can't breathe through my notes. So their story started to get into the schoolwork of European nations and also North America. European nations. I want to say Europe and North America. European. European. So again, Germany's really starting to take in the brothers' grimm. Unfortunately, Germany went a little too wild with it, and they created this nationalism and xenophobia kind of. Uh-oh. Yeah. Ratro. Yeah, they went a little too nationalistic with it. Um, we all know what's happening in Germany in World War II time frame. The the powers at bee during that time, the Nazi Party, um, the SS, if you will, they really took the Grims and they were like, this is German nationalism, this is our culture, these are our people, and these Grims know what's up. So the Grims can sometimes have a negative reputation to some people who don't know enough about them. Yeah. The Grims themselves did not do that. Yeah. They were trying to preserve the Germany that they were watching get wiped away.

SPEAKER_01: 31:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 32:00

This was not the case. By the French. Yes, by the French. By the French. Not the Jewish people. Not the Jewish. No. So the popularity of the Grimms fairy tales got really big during World War II. And after the war, many Germans were trying to bring the name of the Grims back to their rightful reputation. They were like, that was a lot. Stop. Don't do that. And they made it known that the Grims collected stories as a way to preserve their culture instead of trying to be like, we're better than you. We're this nationalistic group. We're they're not better. They're just, we exist. Yeah. That's it. Okay. But yeah, some people will tell you that the Grims are anti-Semitic. I mean, they're honestly a little, you know, chauvinistic, womanizers, a little racist, probably. I mean, all the things that you were back then, but nothing more than the norm.

SPEAKER_01: 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:54

Okay. Yeah. The German dictionary.

unknown: 32:57

Oh.

SPEAKER_00: 32:58

We're not done. We're back at it. It was finally finished in 1961. Wow. Yes. And I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole of all of what it was and why it took that long. And I don't care. Okay. I don't. Yep. All right. That's something for you to explore on your own. Sure. And that is pretty much it for the Grimms. It tracks, I think, that the boys would die with work still left to be done. That that German dictionary was a hefty load for them to take on late in life. Yeah. I don't think they would have ever died with completed works all around. They would have been working, I think, until they died. Yeah. I wanted to touch on one thing. There's a theory. Okay. That Jacob Grimm is gay. Okay. Touch on this because a lot of people ask about it. It's not, it doesn't matter. But people always ask. And it's always brought up. I saw it a lot in my research. Okay. There's no evidence. There's nothing to say he was or wasn't. He didn't have romantic relationships. He was a scholar, an academic. He did his work and he was just a man who lived with his family. That's it. There's no more craziness to it. There's no secret life. There's no like he didn't hide, there's nothing.

SPEAKER_01: 34:15

I wonder why that's even like a popular question.

SPEAKER_00: 34:18

Because he never because he didn't have a romantic life. Oh. So people are just assuming that's weird. Yeah. That's it. He's different. Must be gay. Like, okay. That's it. Yeah. Got it. I personally think that Jacob is just a very deep soul and feels very deeply. And he's the oldest of his family, of the child of the children. He saw his dad die. He, we know, was close with his grandfather. He was close with his mom. He was the one who had to put everything on his shoulders. He would constantly think that Wilhelm was dying every time he got sick. Like he counted his breaths a lot. I don't think Jacob had it room for someone else. That's true. Because you got a lot. You lose people. Like I don't want every time I lose someone to death, I don't want to just replace them and add another. I don't want to lose any more people. Aw. So I feel you, Jacob. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I think. We do. We understand Jacob. We get it. And then finally, my last thing I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_01: 35:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 35:20

There is the German fairy tale route. What? That we should go on. Ooh. You can follow in the footsteps of the brothers Grimm. Oh my God. From Hanau to Bremen. Really? It's 600 kilometers, so about 373 miles. Okay. And it hits 70 locations, and they're all connected to the Grimms or their fairy tales. Like you can see the castle where Sleeping Beauty slept, or Punzel's Tower. You can see where the Grimms grew up and lived, all of it.

SPEAKER_01: 35:52

Oh my God, that sounds like the best time. I want to go. How long would that take? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 35:59

I have no idea. I have the website, though I'll link it in the show notes. Cool. I point down as if I'm like on it. We're gonna link it right here. And there's not even a camera on it. It's just me recording. That sounds amazing, though. Yeah, we should do that. That would be really cool. I want to do that. Yeah, there's a lot about the brothers Grimm in Germany, just anywhere you go. I I bet. I believe it. Because they were a part of everything. Yeah. I did everything. I think more. If any founding father are. I I don't know if any Germans would agree. I think that. I think that. Yeah. That's what I would feel.

SPEAKER_01: 36:38

Also, I don't know a lot about German history before that time. So no.

SPEAKER_00: 36:43

There's a lot of Holy Roman Empire history there. I'm all set. I don't want to get into that. I don't want to know. I want to learn more about fairy tales. Yes, let's focus on that. Because the Grims did enough. Yeah. But yeah, that's that's it. This is a shorter of the three parts. I didn't want to shove all this in because there's again a lot of information. So I just wanted this one to be a little bit shorter. Just a quick soup. I don't know what do that again.

unknown: 37:12

Soup.

SPEAKER_00: 37:14

That sounds fun. I like it. Soup. Okay, I'm done. I can't do it. Well, I have a little gap in my teeth still.

SPEAKER_01: 37:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_00: 37:23

It's still there. The tiniest little gap. That's right. When I had my Invisalign done, I told the doctor not to shut it all the way. He had it closed up all the way, and I said, uh-uh. Uh-uh. That's a piece of Sarah. That's that you closing up. Uh-uh. Don't you do it. Just close it a little to make it cute. Thank you. Thank you very much. Keep your spaces. Keep your gaps. That's right. Yeah, but that's it. That's it. Let's go on the fairy tale tour. Um, you said you want to take our nephew when he graduates high school to Europe. Well, let's go to Germany. Okay. Did you say Europe in general or did you have an idea? I said ink like London. Oh, you specifically want to go to London. Can we go to Germany? Yeah. And can I I'm adding myself to this show. Sure. I wanted to go to London specifically because I want to go on the Jack the Ripper tour. We could probably do both. We don't realize how small Europe is in ja as a continent. I mean, it's not small, like it's a big continent, but like the countries are closer than we realize because we're Americans and everything's big as fuck here. Like I think we could do it. We could do it. Just go for like two or three weeks and just travel Europe. Interesting. That would be fun.

SPEAKER_01: 38:34

I'd have to save up a lot of PTO time for my job.

SPEAKER_00: 38:38

Yes. Well, good thing our nephew is in middle school. Great. We have time. Perfect. However, I think it's like a some type of anniversary or something this year that we just missed for the fairy tale. I saw it on one of their websites and I just went, nope, disassociate. I couldn't go anyway. Can't afford that right now. Yeah, yeah. In this economy. All right, but that's it for the brothers Grimm. And I do feel like a grimarologist. I'm gonna make that a thing. If it's not, I'm one. You're a riperologist, I'm a grimerologist. All right. And we will go to London and Germany. London specifically. Okay. I know that's not a country. I know I said it like it was. It's not. Stupid Americans. Stupid. Oh, also, I am still working on my merch. It's gonna be out pretty soon. I've ordered some products for myself to make sure that they're good quality and everything. So once I do a quality check, I will present everything to the public. And I hope you guys like it because I do. So yeah. Be on the lookout for that. If you want the latest updates about it, you can follow me on Instagram at borrowed bones podcast. And I'm guessing, Sam, for the third time, no Instagram followers. You don't want to care.

SPEAKER_01: 39:54

I mean, you can find me if you I mean, if you want, you can find me.

SPEAKER_00: 39:56

But I've tagged her a few times and things, but you have to you have to work at it to be her friend. You have to work really hard. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 40:06

Yes. I only talk to my sisters. Yeah. When we write letters to each other.

SPEAKER_00: 40:11

We should start. That would be fun. I would want to get like a ink though, like old school desk. Um, the desk I have from grandma actually is old school, and I do have a little inkwell in it. Interesting. So I can put like ink and like pens and do like a quill. I want to get my own like stamp for the seal.

SPEAKER_01: 40:30

You know what? I I'm obsessed with stamp videos. Oh god. I love them so much.

SPEAKER_00: 40:35

Like the wax stamps? Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 40:37

I love them. I want to stamp just to do that. Maybe I should make that for mercy. I don't know, man. I got nothing to stamp. I'm not sending letters these days.

SPEAKER_00: 40:49

Me either.

SPEAKER_01: 40:50

But it looks really fun, and I love watching the videos. So keep it up, whoever you are.

SPEAKER_00: 40:54

Yeah, whoever's making those stamps, keep it up. We love him. I haven't watched them, but I will know. I love the stamps. I've been into YouTube a lot. I've been watching Kevin Lang. He's really funny, him and his people. I don't know who that is. It's so funny. Kevin Lang, and then there's Denny, and then there's Herm. He's my fave. And then I don't know if anyone else watches this at all, but I love them. And they have like millions of followers. Like it's wild how big the internet is and how big this world is because you have millions of followers, and no one I know, though, knows who they are. I'm like the only person in my world that follows them. Yeah. Anyway, any listeners out there, if you also watch Kevin Lang, uh let me know. I don't want to be alone in this. But that's it. A nice short one this week. It was sad. I know. We both cried. I didn't know if you were gonna cry or not. And I was like, God damn it, Sam, don't cry.

SPEAKER_01: 41:48

Don't start with me.

SPEAKER_00: 41:50

I was reading over this today, and Cole comes up and he's like, What's wrong? And I was like, I'm just at the end. I'm so sad. I get so connected. And like I now understand a little bit more like creators I've seen kind of cry through stories. I'm like, bitch, get over it. Like it's fine. But like when you sit with this for so long, you feel it and you're in it. And I know that like listeners aren't feeling it the way or in it this way. You know, you didn't have eight months of time with them. I feel like I know them as people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:22

Well, I don't, I did not sit with this for eight months. This is the first time I'm ever hearing about these stories, but I just really resonate with the brothers. They're so sweet. And yeah, I bet that's why you wanted me to do this because they were so close and we are twins.

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

Yeah, Cole would have made fun of them so hard and had no because he's an only child and he has only child syndrome like crazy. So it's true. He does. It's so I mean, it is what it is, you know. Yeah, it's funny. I'll just call it out whenever it's happening. I'm like, you're being an only child right now. He's like, okay, whatever. But I think this whole time he would have just been like, Why are they so obsessed with each other? And I'll be like, They're litter mates, man. I don't know. They're litter mates. That's the answer. From the womb to the tomb. Oh, should I make a shirt with that? Yeah. From the womb to the tomb, that'll be a shirt or a sweater or something. Any of the twins or siblings, get it. Well, twins specifically, because we shared a womb together. Yeah. But I feel like it'd be okay for people like things are fine. Siblings were share, they don't share a womb at the same time, but they did share a womb. That is true. It's the same womb. Yeah, and siblings share rooms a lot. A lot. So yeah, from the womb to the tomb. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 43:36

Brothers grim.

unknown: 43:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 43:39

All right. Thank you guys. All right. Bye. Bye.