From Taipei to the World: Kimmy Chen’s Journey in Tech and the Power of Curiosity.

In this episode of Taiwanese Change Makers, host Adrian de Courcey sits down with Kimmy Chen, Managing Director of Kokozi, to explore Kimmy’s remarkable career spanning tech leadership, entrepreneurship, and innovation across Asia.

From growing up in Taipei to studying in Canada, working in Brazil and launching ventures in Taiwan and beyond, Kimmy shares:

• How early curiosity led to tech entrepreneurship and global markets.
• Key lessons from building e-commerce platforms including iKala and ShopBack and empowering merchants across Asia. 
• Insights into Taiwan’s startup ecosystem, including its strengths in hardware, semiconductors, and opportunities for growth.
• Kimmy’s latest mission at Kokozi, an audio platform for kids and why Taiwan is the perfect launchpad for global expansion.

Kimmy also reflects on the power of optimism, resilience, and thinking globally—advice every aspiring change maker needs to hear.

🎧 Listen now to discover how curiosity and bold choices can shape a career—and an industry!

Transcript

Adrian de Courcey: 

Welcome to Taiwanese Change Makers, a podcast highlighting the stories of individuals driving positive change and transformation in Taiwan. I'm your host, Adrian de Courcy. In this episode, I'm delighted to welcome Kimmy Chen. Kimmy is Managing Director of Kukozi with a diverse background in tech leadership and entrepreneurship across Asia. Kimmy has worked in publishing, e-commerce, IoT and now leads the launch of an interactive audio platform for children. 

Kimmy has been part of some of Asia's most exciting tech companies, including iKala and ShopBack. Today, we dive into Kimmy's journey from growing up in Taipei to studying in Canada, working in Brazil and building a truly remarkable career across Asia. We also explore the lessons Kimmy has learnt along the way. Kimmy, welcome to Taiwanese Change Makers. 

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, thank you, Adrian. And then thanks for having me.

Adrian de Courcey:

Great you're here. So, let's start at the beginning. Can you share what it was like growing up in Taiwan, your experience studying in Canada and time in Brazil?

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, sure. I grew up in Taipei. I think it's a very traditional family, but that also gave me a lot of freedom and to explore. I think these were the bands of the discipline and space that shaped me now and how I view the world. And then I think I was curious and always asking why, and I think that early curiosity, naturally pulled me toward different cultures. 

So when I went to study for an MBA in Canada, one particular program really completely changed my trajectory. And it was a cross-faculty initiative where business students like me pair with engineering students.

At that time, we were able to work together to build a real product and then try to commercialise it. So that was my first hands-on experience in tech entrepreneurship. So, I think probably our idea back then might sound outdated now, but it was very real at the time.

So, we worked late nights, brainstorming, prototyping, and then eventually entered a national university start-up competition in Canada. And then we won the second place and then got the small prize funded to launch their products. I think I feel fulfilled. Because I feel, okay, I wasn't just study business. I was building something real.

So, after that, instead of staying in North America like many of my classmates, I choose to work in Brazil. So, everyone else was aiming for internship at a big firm in Toronto or New York, but I wanted something different. So, I joined a consultancy in Brazil and then worked on a research project where I compare the rise of China's e-commerce ecosystem, especially for example Alibaba, and then bring that insight to Brazil's own tech ecosystem. I think that's where I first saw how mobile and internet technology could truly change people's lives, especially in an emerging market.

Adrian de Courcey:

So, the project was really about sharing the insights and learnings from Alibaba and what's happening in China and taking it to Brazil basically. And just it's an interesting tangent. How long did you spend in Brazil?

Kimmy Chen:

Yes, more than one year.

Adrian de Courcey:

And do you speak any Portuguese?

Kimmy Chen:

No. Yeah, yeah, most of the team members are coming from all over the world, so we can just speak English, luckily.

Adrian de Courcey:

English was the common language. So, tell me after, after obviously studying in Canada and many of your classmates would have gone on to jobs in Toronto or New York and then going to Brazil, what brought you back to Taiwan because you had lots of different options. What made you want to return home?

Kimmy Chen:

Okay, because I want to, at the time, want to start up my own company. Okay, and then instead of Silicon Valley, I was thinking, okay, I would like to see how this start up ecosystem working in Asia. Okay, so that's why I choose to go back to Taiwan and then start up my own company there. And then after that, I bring this venture.

I was keen to explore the large Chinese market. So, I kind of spend some time between Taiwan and China.

Adrian de Courcey:

And that first company was Brilliant Inc.?

Kimmy Chen:

Yes.

Adrian de Courcey:

So, you've had a very impressive and diverse career in tech. What would you say is your most significant career achievement so far and why?

Kimmy Chen:

Okay. Yeah, I think one of the most meaningful projects I have worked on was during my time at IKala where we built a social commerce platform. Okay. And then, it's based in Taiwan, but deeply rooted in Southeast Asia. I led the development of a social commerce automation platform where it was particularly innovative because it solved a very original and a very real problem. In Southeast Asia, it's very interesting that most of the transactions are happening on social media, for example, Facebook and Instagram. OK, and then people do the live streaming, live streaming selling on those social media. 

Then before having the automation platform like us, the people need to take the order manually through the comments or through the through the message messenger. Okay, so we build up the system which can capture the intention that when people leave the comment show the interest to whatever this vendor sells. Then, we capture that intention and then convert that intention into the orders and then to complete the payment and the product fulfilment for the vendors because that is a very new way to do e-commerce. Also, because that was during COVID many physical stores were forced to shut down overnight. Suddenly, their only sales channel become Facebook Live. Okay, so I think that's what really touched me the most was seeing the shopkeepers and shop owners using our product to resume their business through live video selling. 

Yeah, so I remember at our peak, over 200,000 merchants across Southeast Asia were using that product. So yeah, so for me, it's a very meaningful project, very meaningful product.

Adrian de Courcey: 

It's a huge achievement and you provided the essential infrastructure and backbone to their operation basically. So it's hugely meaningful. Tell me, you've been both a start-up entrepreneur with Brilliant Inc, your first startup, but you've also been an employee at fast scaling start-ups like iKala and now Kukozi. Which position have you found more fulfilling? Being an entrepreneur yourself or being an employee?

Kimmy Chen:

Hmm, okay. So, I think it goes out for filling in different ways. Okay. As a founder, you are the architect. You get to set the missions, the culture, the pace. Yes. But it's also lonely and extremely high pressure. So yeah, but, if I had to choose. no, it's really hard to choose it. So.

Adrian de Courcey: 

It's your vision.

Kimmy Chen:

Let me put it this way. Okay, so to me, the entrepreneurship isn't limited to starting my own company. I think it's more about the mindset. It's about wanting to create something new, something better, and then taking the ownership to make it happen.

Adrian de Courcey:

If you had to choose. 

Kimmy Chen:

I truly enjoy the process of building the product, solve a real world problem, and then seeing users I really love to use it. I think as long as the job scope can contain all those elements, I think I will fulfill that.

Adrian de Courcey:

Okay, so a mix of both really. when we were talking before, I was fascinated by Taiwan's invoice lottery. And during your time at iKala and at ShopBack, you helped merchants navigate the invoice lottery. For our international listeners, could you explain what the invoice lottery is in Taiwan and how it benefits the government?

Kimmy Chen:

Okay, so actually this is a product of ShopBack. Taiwan has a very unique system called an invoice carrier system, okay, and it's a government initiative to encourage the consumer to ask for the official receipt when they make the purchase. Okay, so, and then every official receipt has a number on it. And every two months, there's a lot to withdraw. If your receipt matches the winning number, and then you win the real money. And it's sometimes up to millions of dollars. I think it's already become a standard process, when the people go to shopping, they will just show their invoice carrier and then the cashier to scan the barcode and then you got the receipt without any paper receipt. Okay, so it's both like very eco-friendly and also making the good habit, right? 

Adrian de Courcey:

It also ensures the tax is paid. Obviously, if there's no receipt, there's no record of a transaction and it is a hassle for the shopkeeper in a way, but by actually having the lottery, it gives the incentive on the part of the customer to ask for the receipt. It's very smart.

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, exactly. So this system, I think it started as a very smart way for the government to reduce the tax evasion, I'll say that, and to ensure this proper reporting from merchants. But also, I think what's fascinating is how these infrastructures, especially the invoice carrier system.

It also become an incredible tool for marketing and customer insight. When I was at ShopBack, we actually built a system on the top of the Taiwan's invoice infrastructures. Our goal wasn't just to help customers win the lottery. No, okay, we cannot do that. Okay, we wanted to help the brands to understand the cross-channel consumer behaviour, especially in offline retail. It's very hard to check offline retail. So that helps us to do that. So it's very interesting. Yes.

Adrian de Courcey:

You have complete transparency. So, it has the complete overview of the online and offline sales.

Kimmy Chen:

Yes, yes. And especially because offline is very hard to track, right, the cross channel. Through this inverse carrier API, we were able to track the purchase made by customers across a retail environment. So, but what's the benefit for the brand, right? So for example, okay, if someone buys Coca-Cola at a convenience store then, maybe again at the supermarket and then we can aggregate the data and then create an overview of their behaviour. For example, if I'm Pepsi and I really want to acquire the users from Coca-Cola, I can give a very special deal, for example, up to 100 % discount for these people to try Pepsi.

Instead, this like a discount, in that system, we can have a dynamic discount, a personalised discount based on your behaviour. 

Adrian de Courcey:

Yeah, you're able to take it down to the micro individual consumer level So if they are a heavy Coca-Cola drinker and they always drink it say after 4 pm or after sports times you're able to sell them a sports drink or Pepsi or you're able to really micro target.

Kimmy Chen:

Yes, yes. And then, of course, there are some other traditional ways to acquire the new user, right? For example, sampling. Okay, but you don't know who you are sampling to. Probably, he is already a Pepsi drinker, heavy drinker. You don't even to sample to him. He's already loyal to your brand, right? But with this kind of system, we are able to sample to the person that actually you want to acquire. Yeah, so I think that's how intelligent the system is in practice.

Adrian de Courcey:

You're able to reduce the actual customer acquisition cost because the data enables you to do that. I'm a huge fan of all the work you've done at iKala and ShopBack. You also worked at NetiGate and, at NetiGate, you used AIoT to enhance industrial manufacturers processes and productivity and ESG reporting.

Adrian de Courcey:

Could you give our listeners a quick overview of NetiGate solution and how it works?

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, sure. So, NetiGate was focusing on bringing the AIoT into the traditional offline industry. When I say AIoT, it's AI with Internet of Things. Okay, so we work with the manufacturers to install the smart sensor that can collect real-time data. Okay, from the energy usage to machine vibrations and then fit that into an analytics dashboard powered by AI. So those data allow the factory to improve their energy efficiency and then predict the equipment failures. And then I think most importantly is that it's able to also measure the ESG performance with precision.

Okay, so in Taiwan's manufacturing heavy economy, this kind of solution is the key to drive both sustainability and profitability. Yeah, and I think it is also very meaningful to the Taiwanese manufacturing industries.

Adrian de Courcey:

Also, Taiwan is introducing a carbon tax. So as the carbon tax increases in adoption across the country, it needs to be matched with very accurate ESG reporting. NetiGate is one of the obvious solutions. how accurate is the NetiGate data?

Kimmy Chen:

Okay. I would say it's almost like real time and really accurate. And the reason is it's not like sampling or predictions. It's really measuring the physical stuff, the flow or the pressures and everything. Yeah.

Adrian de Courcey:

So that's a very industrial B2B proposition. Now you've moved into a new area because you have an exciting new position and probably the most fun position I would say as an outsider looking in because you are managing director of a new startup called Kokozi. So maybe if you can tell our listeners first what Kokozi is and then what attracted you to Kokozi.

Kimmy Chen:

Kokozi is a smart audio storing platform designed for children ages 0 to 6. And it offers an alternative to screen time by using sound, stories, songs, and language-based content. 

Why I really love this job is I think to be honest, really like drove me to Kokozi wasn't just this product. It's the mission and the people behind it. Yeah, I think I saw Kokozi as an excellent opportunity to share impact for products in a market that deeply values education and imagination. Although, I mean, everyone knows the birth rate in Taiwan is decreasing, but also the investment, the money a parent would love to invest their kids is increasing. 

Yeah, so I think that's also part of the reason I think, okay, this product is promising and also meaningful. 

Adrian de Courcey:

In a way, and it's sort of counterintuitive, but you see the declining birth rates in Taiwan and South Korea as more of an opportunity than a challenge because it means that the parents have more to spend per child basically.

When I was looking through your social media feed, actually, one of the things that I found attractive about Kokozi is it's very much being positioned as the Apple of the childcare market in terms of a great product design. It's a very beautiful product. There's a whole unboxing where people actually do videos of the unboxing of Kokozi and so on.

Can you tell our listeners a little bit about the product design?

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, of course. We built this product to really put the kids central. And then so everything we made is, if you see the product, it's really the wrong shape. And then there's no, yeah, there's no any, like, shape can hurt the kits. And then also when, and then it's designed very intuitive for the kits.

There's no like too much of the function on it. It's just okay. There's a house and there's a figurine we call that Arty which is best friend in Korean? Arty. The kids is just put Arty into the house and then they can enjoy the music. Yeah, so I think it is a very intuitive and then be able to let the kids choose whatever they want to listen by themselves.

It's really important for the kids at this age.

Adrian de Courcey:

And you also mentioned that what attracted you to Kukozi was the team. Can you tell us about the team? Because I think the founders of Delivery Hero were among the start-up investors. Maybe give us an overview of the team and the quality of the team.

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, yeah. So, I think as a former entrepreneur myself, I've learned that the single most important factors to determine whether a success is the quality of the funding team. So the founders of Kokozi have exceptional track records. For example, our CEO was previously the CMO of Delivery Hero Korea.

Kimmy Chen:

And then one of our co-founders is actually a global co-founder of Delivery Hero. And those are the people who know what it takes to go from zero to one, from one to 10, and eventually to IPO or acquisition. They understand the discipline of scaling, but they also know when to be bold and when to be strategic.

Adrian de Courcey:

Plus, they have all the grit, the determination, the experience to overcome the inevitable obstacles and challenges. One final question on Kokozi, because I love Kokozi. So I've seen the figurines and I think it's beautiful. So Kokozi is now in launch and it's in Taiwan and South Korea. What are the grander plans for Kokozi? Do you plan to take Kokozi across the whole of Asia, what's the five-year vision?

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, so I think when Kokozi launched in day one, we positioned ourselves as a global company. So Taiwan market is just the first stop by Kokozi. But also with a very strategic decision. Kokozi isn't just treat Taiwan as a sales destination.

We are investing in Taiwan as a regional content hub. So that's also the key reason why I say yes to this company. We are very keen to acquire the good kids' content and then trying to bring those content to other Mandarin-speaking countries, of course, including Malaysia and Singapore. And then also...

Western countries who have the Chinese immigrants, there's mainly speaking people immigrant. Yeah, and then I think for the five years plan, let me put myself as the Taiwan hat, on - we are aiming to become the number one kids audio platform in Taiwan and then covering the most of the Asia, Mandarin and also English speaking countries. That's our five years plan.

Adrian de Courcey: 

I think it's a great vision and I also know that many families in Europe and the US, they want their children to grow up with an understanding of Mandarin. So, there is actually a much wider market potentially in outside Asia for Kokozi, also amongst non-Mandarin speakers. So I keep my fingers crossed and I'm sure Kokozi would be a huge success.

Adrian de Courcey:

Let's now talk about Taiwan's entrepreneurial ecosystem. You've worked across multiple Asian countries including China, Korea, Thailand and Vietnam. What makes Taiwan uniquely suited for starting a tech business compared to its neighbours?

Kimmy Chen:

Yeah, yeah, I think I'm very lucky that I had the opportunity to work across many markets. I think what makes Taiwan uniquely powerful is the intersection of the deep engineering talent, robust infrastructures, and agile manufacturing supply chain. So let me share your stories that last year.

I participated in a start-up program at Stanford University. Where they selected a group of the Taiwanese team to receive the hands-on coaching in how to enter the US over the global market. During one of the sessions, we were asked to calculate our unique economics for the product that we are working on, which the A-IoT device that I just mentioned previously. yeah, NetiGate, the smart meter. Okay, so we calculate the cost of each component, like chips, sensors, and everything, and then present it, present it in our pitch deck. Okay, but the professor stop us and say, no, no, no, this must be wrong. But we go back and double check.

It was all correct. It turns out the professor couldn't believe our unit cost was so low. And then I think from their perspectives in the US, those components could be significantly more expensive or even difficult to source. But in Taiwan, those components are not only accessible, but affordable.

I think that's thanks to the deeply integrated local manufacturing ecosystem. This moment made me realise Taiwan is one of the few places where hardware and software innovation can happen together. And then we can quickly iterate and then very cost effectively.

So I think that's a very huge advantage for any start-up, especially when building the full stack solution.

Adrian de Courcey:

And it plays to Taiwan's advantages as a genuine center of excellence with semiconductor tech. The whole, that's the core and the hub of the ecosystem. Tell me, well, that shows how strong the proposition and the uniqueness of Taiwan. If you could change one thing to strengthen Taiwan startup ecosystem, what would it be if you could change one thing?

Kimmy Chen:

I think it could be to create a stronger bridge between capital and innovation. Right now we have great talents and strong technical capability, but we are still a bit conservative in terms of the risk management, especially from the investment side.

So the early stage of funding is still relatively cautious and then compared to what you see in places like North America, of course, and also Europe, I think. Yeah, so that's where the investors are more aggressively about backing funders and even pre-revenue.

Adrian de Courcey:

So you would argue that the limitation is with the venture capital side and the lack of venture capital in terms of possibly the funding amounts and the willingness to back pre-revenue?

Taiwan, as everyone knows, is a global leader in chip design and manufacturing. Do you think this position is sustainable? For example, with TSMC's recent 165 billion investment in US facilities, including R&D in the US, do you see that as weakening Taiwan's strength in the semiconductor industry?

Kimmy Chen: 

Yeah, I think given all those geopolitical shifts and then global supply chain restructures we're seeing now, I believe Taiwan's position remains strong and sustainable. Especially because its dominance isn't just about the location.

It's about an entire industrial ecosystem. The talents, the precision, engineering, R &D, supply chain integration, then decades of experience. So, I think it's very hard to replicate. But of course, I believe there's the natural evolution in global competition.

Every great company, especially one at the scale of TSMC, must globalise. They need to be where their customers are and to de-risk supply chain. So, I think that is when the chance comes, I don't think that that's hurting.

Yeah, and then by contrast, I think it's an opportunity for them to even grow stronger.

Adrian de Courcey:

We are recording this interview in mid to late April when the tariffs and Donald Trump's trade policies are very prominent in the media. Donald Trump has a commitment to move manufacturing of all types to the US. But of course, the type of work TSMC does is highly skilled. Although there may be a move from some facilities to the US replicating the highly skilled labour force would also be a challenge. I think one of Taiwan's strengths is it's beyond simply TSMC. It's the experience, it's the know-how, it's the whole ecosystem which is hard to replicate.

Adrian de Courcey:

Let's move on to your personal and professional learnings. Looking back on your very diverse career, what are the most important lessons you've learned and is there anything you would have done differently?

Kimmy Chen:

I think the most important lesson I've learned both personally and professionally is to always stay optimistic and curious about the world. I know it may sound cliche, okay, but the more I reflect, the more I realise. Really the curiosity is the field that can drive everything. For example, when you DM me, I just reply, hey, okay, sure, let's have a conversation. And then, yeah, we are here, right? So, yeah, so I think that this kind of curiosity is pushing me to embrace more opportunities. Yeah, and then I can ask better questions and then to challenge assumptions, yeah, to learn new things.

I also know this optimism will help me to go through the time when I feel a little bit uncomfortable. Because I know this uncomfortable is where the timing I grow up. Yeah, so yeah, so I think this is kind of the lesson I learned along the way.

You also asked me what I may have done differently, right? Okay. I sometimes wish I had started working abroad even earlier. Okay, because I've worked across multiple countries and every time I get not only a new skill but a new version of myself. So I could do it all over again. I probably tell my parents - 

‘Hey, let me go study in the Netherlands or Sweden.’ When I was 14, maybe. Yeah, I think because the world is so big and there's so much to learn, not just from textbook, but also from the people. So how different society builds things and how teams collaborate together.

I love this so much, so if I could do it differently, I probably will go somewhere, start to study abroad since very early age.

Adrian de Courcey:

I completely agree on everything you have  said actually. So, curiosity is essential because if you're curious, you're open to opportunities and it's about being open to whatever is out there in the world. And also the optimism gets you through the tough times that are inevitable in any career in life. So definitely we're totally aligned.

What advice would you give any listeners aspiring to build a career in tech in Taiwan?

Kimmy Chen:

Okay, so from day one, envision yourself or your company on a global stage. I think it's tempting to build for what's immediately around you. But when you start with the assumption that your product, your skill, yourself, your impact could be global, and you make a different choice.

You may decide your product to be multi-language from the store. You may start it market dynamic beyond Taiwan. You may work with a teammate coming from different cultures and that shape a totally different you. So I think that's if I only choose one piece of advice, this is the one.

Adrian de Courcey:

That's great and beginning with a global mindset, but let's say you have two pieces of advice. What would the second one be?

Kimmy Chen:

Okay, don't be afraid. Embrace the opportunities you encounter. Yeah, I think, like, I guess that in most of the Asian cultures, the parents tend to protect the kids too much. And then that may make us to lose the ability to recover from failure.

Yeah, but failure is the time for you to grow. Don't be afraid of failure. Yeah, just get up and move on. That will help you a lot.

Adrian de Courcey:

There's a famous Japanese saying about getting knocked down seven times and getting up eight. And it's that resilience of life. as we come to the end of the podcast, there are two questions we ask every guest and they are fun questions, more about Taiwan. So tell me, what's your favourite place or must see destination in Taiwan that you could recommend to somebody.

Kimmy Chen: 

Yeah, of course. Yeah, this is the easy one. For me, it's Yangmingshan National Park. Yangmingshan is the mountain with the hot springs very nearby the major Taipei city. So what I love about Yangmingshan is it's just 30 minutes away from downtown Taipei. And then when you were there, it feels like you've escaped to another world because it's a mountain with fresh air, beautiful views, and some of the best natural hot springs in Taiwan.

Adrian de Courcey:

Wow, that sounds amazing. Then the very final question, Taiwan is known all over the world for its food. Do you have a favourite restaurant in Taiwan? And if so, what makes it special?

Kimmy Chen:

One of my favourite restaurants in Taiwan is Mountain and Sea House. The Taiwanese street food is very famous, right? But this restaurant is to make the street food by

using very premium but locally sourcing ingredient.

Adrian de Courcey:

This must be amongst the best restaurants in Taiwan, yeah?

Adrian de Courcey:

Wow! So, definitely it has very special and cherished memories. Wow that that is a beautiful heart-warming and very romantic way to end the interview. Thank you enormously for being an amazing guest and for telling us about your fascinating career and the very important life lessons so they'll be valuable to everybody. Thank you so much.