Two for the Culture

The Lines We Draw: Exploring Trust and Betrayal

• Season 1 • Episode 25

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We explore the complex boundaries of forgiveness and trust in relationships while examining whether people can truly change after betrayal or deception.

• Can someone truly change their behavior after cheating or is it just better control?
• Distinguishing between accidental infidelity and deliberate, premeditated cheating
• Why we might forgive physical betrayal more easily than financial betrayal
• The psychology behind stealing luxury items versus necessities
• Gender differences in handling pressure and leadership roles
• Parenting approaches that balance discipline with incentives
• The distinction between spirituality and religion - can they exist separately?
• How our upbringing influences our capacity for forgiveness and boundary-setting

We'll be back next week with another episode. Follow us on social media @TwoForTheCulture and leave us your thoughts on today's discussion.


Welcome Back and Setup

Speaker 1

And we are back with another episode of Two for the Culture . I'm Justin Devante . I'm Steven .

Speaker 2

Ray .

Speaker 1

Yes sir , and we are back how ?

Speaker 2

you doing ? Doing well , doing well . I feel like we've been setting up for the past hour . We didn't say a word to each other .

Speaker 1

I just had to work on a couple of things real quick , really . Just for Fantasy League I had to set up the payments and stuff because I'm the commissioner , uh , so yeah , so I just have to set up payments and just make sure everybody got it , so it can be off my back you know , I still don't even know what a parlay is okay , so that's just uh , it's , I can explain to you very easily yeah so you just have one bet and you combine it with another bet , okay , and so that's a parlay .

Speaker 1

So for , for example , say for basketball terms , you can bet LeBron James scores over 30 points , and so that's one bet . And then you would say LeBron James scores or not scores , gets 11 rebounds , and so that's another bet and you combine it and those two bets into one and that if they .

Speaker 1

If he does both of those things , that increases a higher payment because those odds are more more riskier on one bet than if you do it separately , but the odds of you winning it are less likely because you have to win both bets to win at the same time ?

Speaker 2

yeah , exactly , so what if you just win ?

Speaker 1

one , then you , you then you lose your money . Damn yeah , but if you win both , you make more money than if you were to do them separately got you all right , so football just started exactly , yep , okay , yeah , I did see tate post something about the broncos yeah , yeah , yeah . So they , they won . They didn't look very good doing it . Who ?

Speaker 2

Russell Wilson play for .

Speaker 1

He plays for the New York Giants . That's what made you ask about Russell .

Speaker 2

I just thought he still played for them .

Speaker 1

For the Broncos . Yeah , that's not too far off , even though he played for another team last year .

Speaker 2

Two years ago . Yeah , exactly , I ain't too far off , even though he played for another team last year . Okay , so it was like two years ago . Yeah , exactly , all right , yeah .

Speaker 3

I ain't too far off .

Speaker 1

Yeah , you ain't , but I think we do have a good discussion on today .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

I hate to skip past our weekends , but I feel like it wasn't much going on , I ain't doing shit , Same work and driving Same house same house .

Speaker 1

Worked yeah , worked regular day job and then drove afterwards yeah , so I have . I think it was things that we brushed up on lightly that I want to go a little bit in depth on . Yeah , so I think it will be a really , really fun discussion for us All . Right , so do you feel like somebody can truly change ? By the way , these are questions . That's going to lead me into where I really want to go Something else , okay . Do you feel like somebody can truly change ? Yes ?

Speaker 2

I feel like somebody can have more control . Okay , if that makes sense . Understood , you know what I'm saying .

Speaker 1

It's a very vague answer .

Speaker 2

Yeah , Excuse me question .

Speaker 1

Uh-huh , and I feel like that one is a yes for me . Just because we're going to grow and mature , we're going to be different people . We can change , for the better or worse . Yeah , you're not going to be the same person . You are at 18 . You're just going to be more traumatized , okay . So do you agree ?

Speaker 2

yes , yes , yeah , when you put time into the equation okay .

Speaker 1

So my next point is do you ,

Can People Truly Change?

Speaker 1

can you forgive somebody who cheats ? Ultimately , this , is it really a more discussion , uh , on change and forgiveness and understanding ? What are our limits in between that ? Okay , so I just wanted to kind of set the foundation . All right , can you forgive somebody who cheats ? Uh , yes okay uh-huh , okay , so I think we both agree that there's boundaries on that , right yeah ?

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

So if multiple partners like if you cheat on me twice , that's clearly different .

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah , it's not a one and done . Yeah , there is just a possibility of me forgiving that . I think , I think I believe . So yeah , I've done it before , okay .

Speaker 1

So if she was to cheat again , what if it happened two years later ? I can't do that .

Speaker 2

Because then what it was going to happen two or four years later after that , okay .

Speaker 1

That's a big boundary it's not like you .

Speaker 2

You know , stepped on my foot or some shit . Like you , you , another man was inside you .

Speaker 1

Yeah okay , twice . I understand . I'm glad you brought up that point , even though that's an obvious one yeah yeah , so it also . So it depends on how many times it happens , and so , but you , we both agree .

Speaker 2

I think there's a yeah , there's there . There's some type of , I believe . So I don't know , I've never been with a woman for a long time after someone cheated on me . So I don't have the experience of a woman cheated on me and then I was with her for like four years after . So I don't have the experience of a woman cheated on me and then I was with her for like four years after that . I don't have that experience . So I'm just going off of a hypothetical . I think there is a world where that could possibly be true . I mean , I'm giving , I'm giving the situation grace , because I've never been in it and I don't know what I would do if I was in it , but I think it's a possibility , okay .

Speaker 1

So I can set up some hypotheticals for you .

Speaker 2

Yeah .

Speaker 1

The first one was a deliberate act Like I am going to have sexual expression .

Speaker 2

I can't do that Okay .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I couldn't do that . So what are some of the limits to where you can ?

Speaker 2

forget . Then If it's like a situation of Again , I haven't been in these situations so I could see me . That's too blatant , that's way too blatant . That's way too blatant . That's like , if I read the messages , daddy , I'm on the way , dog , like I got to move on from that . That's way too like you're invested , you know , in the cheating . I don't think I can that , I don't think I could just like forgive , like that .

Speaker 2

But , if there's a situation of the common shit . You hear you at a party , boom , everybody drinking . Now you're drunk , now some one thing that you woke up you don't even remember the night , and then now you cheated on me . You know that sucks , but like I can deal with that way , more than how you going to hit this pussy when I get there . You know what I'm saying . Like I don't , I don't , I can't , I can't get over that one .

Speaker 1

Uh , yeah , yeah , I hear you that's . That's definitely a lot . It's very tough to yeah .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah and yeah , and I'm I'm kind of with you , yeah . So do you think that person who deliberately act about what you said , like giving the hey daddy text while in a relationship , can that person change from that ? I believe so if they're 30 years old so when did they do ? It oh , um . No , I'm saying they're 30 year old and they cheated oh , oh , you're saying yeah .

Speaker 1

Like I'm not even saying like age , why , well , I did put an age on it , but in terms of like 10 years , now they're 40 . I'm saying , in the next couple of years , do you ? See that person changing yeah From that ? I think it's possible .

Speaker 2

Ok , I think it's possible . It just depends on it depends on them . You know , that's that's blatant , though . So like that makes me feel like you're far too gone into that reality , versus like you just like slipped up . So that would take a lot . I I don't know if it would be a couple years , but I mean at the same time , I'm not sure . I I think I think things also depend on karma and consequences . So if , let's say , if me and her were married or some shit , and I'm paying for your business and this and that and you do that and I just pull everything out , now you're you're , your life is fucked , you might learn from that a little bit more , you know . But if nothing happened to you and you just you know , we just broke up and you get to do whatever , I don't see people changing like that . So I , I think that's a case-by-case basis of that I understand .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I , I can see where you're coming from yeah , would you .

Speaker 2

What do you think ?

Speaker 1

um , that it'll be hard for me to it . So ultimately , agree about consequences it . When you have consequences , I mean like yeah , you go into prison yeah yeah , there's gonna be people who's like , bro , I ain't never coming back . And there's gonna be some people like once I get back out of there , I'm going 10 times harder . Yeah yeah , so I understand exactly what you mean .

Speaker 2

I saw a post . I saw a post , but this shit was like last month . It's this one influencer and he's in jail and he's one of them niggas with phones in jail . And then that man tweeted . I mean , he posted on his story with a caption on it saying I'm going to just apologize now before I get out . Story with a caption on it saying I'm gonna just apologize now before I get out , and I'm just like dog , what are you doing , bro ? You know , yeah , and it was funny because , like , uh , weeks before then his posts were you know , I'm reading the book , I'm reading the bible , I'm doing this that you know , we just got to be better people . And then one day I read that shit . I'm gonna just apologize now for when I get out , because it's up yeah , yeah , yeah , and that that's .

Speaker 1

That's wild to say yeah on a , you know , a public format saying , hey , I am not on a public port yeah , it's like saying I'm not even , I'm not , don't regret anything , anything yeah of what I did yeah , so he sounded like he should stay in there , but I don't know what . What he ?

Speaker 2

did to get in there .

Speaker 1

It could have been like you know , and then he could be referring to somebody .

Speaker 2

You know , like I'm going hard on these hoes , you know yeah , it could have been , yeah , but it doesn't sound like that , don't sound like it yeah , he's going back . Yeah , he's definitely going back

Forgiving Infidelity

Speaker 2

, yeah , um but yeah , I just said that you , I agree with you . There are different type of people the ones who are like I can't wait to get out of here and just change my life . And then there's the other ones that's like I'm going to get that nigga , yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah . So it's just hard for me to really , if you're that blatant , seeing you change in general , because I think consequences do matter , but I feel like breaking my heart is shit . Make you feel away like you , just like , hey , I don't care , you know that shit don't be doing that for them yeah , that's a character trait oh god , you don't feel bad on god , and so I'm with you to a certain degree it's like how ? How do you reflect when you don't care ? Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2

And nothing happens to you . A part of me feels like that's narcissism .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

And that's deliberate work you got to do on yourself . It's not just a time thing to where hey , I'm rock bottom . Yeah , Rock bottom doesn't feel like it heals a narcissist .

Speaker 3

You got to want that in you yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , so , and that's kind of where I'm at with this . So there's degrees of changing ones . If you're not self-reflecting , then I'm not . I'm not gonna be with you on that journey regardless yeah and definitely deliberate . It's like I've even I said last podcast , I'm so easy going when it comes to like situations of boundaries , like I feel like my boundary limit is fairly hot , consider to the average man . So I'm just wondering like why couldn't this be a conversation ?

Speaker 3

yeah yeah .

Speaker 1

So if you're yeah , so that's kind of where I'm living in that world , like my boundaries are way too high and you went over that . How you do that right like like you . You're not good at this in relationships how you do that .

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah so okay .

Speaker 1

So now I feel like where we may agree is we talked about forgiveness and cheating and at one time , if you so happen to be drunk , so what if she so happened to be drunk with one of your best friends ?

Speaker 2

I ain't forgiving that shit . Fuck both of them .

Speaker 1

Yeah , but it was just they were drunk and they didn't remember and something happened .

Speaker 2

Nah , nah , nah , hell , no , what I remember I remember Damn remember , damn no , it was this one time one of my homies . He called one of the girls I was talking to fine and I was even . If she is fine or pretty or whatever , it's just like why you do that shit . You know like you .

Speaker 1

You know the side eyes there um , what if he hit you with the ?

Speaker 2

with all due respect , with that manner , like without due respect . Your girlfriend is fine for some reason .

Speaker 1

That just did a lot okay I'm just saying like if he was the framework , like that yeah , or if he came to me or something I'm saying I heard from her . Oh , I didn't hear nothing from him . Okay , I thought you saying in conversation .

Speaker 2

Yeah , no , no , like she came back to me , she was like you know well , I Can't say like the full thing , but like she just basically said that . Because it's gonna be very obvious of like , who I'm talking about , but um , or the time frame and stuff . But that did happen one time where I'm just like , okay , but people are different . You know , I'm saying people are different . I got friends who um like , if I break up with a girl , they'll keep like liking their posts , and I just like nigga , what are you doing ?

Speaker 2

yeah yeah , but like at the same time , people aren't me right you know what I'm saying . So and I I know like I surround myself with people with like pure hearts and like that , so right .

Speaker 1

What if the post is not like her feeding the homeless ? Like ? What if it's like one of ? Those is it like any posts , or is it like ?

Speaker 2

any any okay , yeah , no , it ain't like it ain't like that . But , um , yeah , just like , some people just move a little differently . But yeah , if I found out that my girl and my homie got drunk and all that , that's gonna that'll , that'll , that'll mess me up a little bit , like in general , even after I'm done with them , like that's that , that'll probably scar me for real in different situations . Do you think that if that happened to you , like how would you , can you see yourself moving on from that situation ? In terms of every time you have a girl now and who you bring her around , do you think you could ever just let that go ?

Speaker 1

I try to treat everybody as their own individual , and so , yeah , I think so I wouldn't be like Brad . She can't come around . None of my homies , no more , ever .

Speaker 2

I'm saying so , you a keeper .

Speaker 1

I'm talking about any girl I bring around . I'm saying that too , oh , if she did that and it got to depend on the homie , you know what I mean .

Speaker 1

Like is it somebody that I know is ? You know how close am I ? You know like maybe this is a bad example , but my mom didn't treat us all the same . Maybe this is a bad example , but my mom didn't treat us all the same . So if my brother was struggling in a class that I'm in two years later , I'm in that class . She's not going to hold me to that same standard she held my brother to . So that's kind of how I live a little bit .

Speaker 1

It's like I'm not going to hold every friend to that same standard . It's going to be slightly different . So the the lady I'm probably going to break up with because , like , come on now but the yeah , it's like what's your own , what I don't know like friendship is harder . It's weird because friendships are , for me , harder to break that bond .

Speaker 2

If they both got drunk together , that's a decision on both of them . Yeah , I mean how you worded it . It seems like it's a decision on both of them to sit down and after a little bit of drinks you start to feel it . There's got to be somewhere in a guy's mind like , oh , this is like my homie's girl , like before it gets to the point of I don't know what I'm doing anymore , I I would feel like it's somewhere in there that it would . It would hit them .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , how did this person move ? Because we all you know and I'm speaking on a different friend that may you're coming to your mind- but we may have a friend that have maybe talked to your ex , or like like I'm . You know I'm speaking on a different friend that may come to your mind , but you may have a friend that have maybe talked to your ex .

Speaker 3

And .

Speaker 1

I'm speaking on a different person than who you have in mind . Yeah , because I've had friends do that in general , so I know that hearing it from them on my side , so you feel like a little weird in a way , but it's like all right , I know him as a womanizer .

Speaker 2

Oh , uh-huh .

Speaker 1

Yeah , so I can see that happening from him and yeah , we won't be like blood anymore . Yeah , but I could be associative with you , yeah . But for her it's a no-no . Yeah , you gave up the ultimate . You know that's the ultimate loyalty test .

Speaker 2

I feel like it's more for the homie . They damn near on the same level .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I'm with you . That's why I'm saying it depends on the friend .

Speaker 2

Yeah .

Speaker 1

So that's just for me personally , yeah , so .

Speaker 2

If you get drunk with my girless and it's over . Yeah , I mean yeah , yeah , anybody .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , yeah , what the hell no I think I uh , yeah , I take my pride on that , you know like that's something I thought that was like normal . Yeah , I mean yeah yeah , and and I like , and I'm sure I'm gonna be mad , but I'm just how I'm thinking it out in my in my mind that there's a way to come back , because I we've had similar .

Speaker 2

Oh , a way to come back .

Speaker 1

Because I've had similar situations like that , yeah , like to where one of my friends tried to holler at my girlfriend . And they were actually in a relationship and I ultimately forgave him for it , oh yeah . So , yeah , yeah , and our bond isn't as strong as it used to be . But I Our bond isn't as strong as it used to be , but I wish him well .

Speaker 2

I'll text him happy birthday .

Speaker 1

You know , check him up and really want him to do well .

Speaker 3

Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1

So , I agree with you , sir , yeah , but I think that , just like decency as a woman , you giving yourself up like that to my friend is like come on now , and this is supposed to be marriage , Like I'm not married to my friends .

Speaker 3

Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1

I'm not saying to God , you know , oh , for a lifetime , right , yeah , and I'm obligated to do , you know , for sick and poor . I don't have that with my friends , yeah , yeah . So that means that my degree is a lot higher of trust . Yeah , it goes a lot further if I'm making sense .

Speaker 2

Yeah , especially when you bring marriage into it .

Speaker 1

Yeah , so at this point , why am I in a relationship if my goal isn't to be married with you ? Oh , okay , wasn't why there's just too many willing people to , or there's too many single women out here to just start like clinging on somebody who's disloyal it just doesn't really make sense for me . Yeah , but friendships are . I feel like friendships are harder to find nowadays I think so when I look at other people .

Speaker 2

When I look at other people and they talk about how many friends they have and stuff , uh , um , and I compare it to myself , not necessarily why I'm speaking to them , but I do see that even what I have is pretty rare to like talk to somebody for like 20 plus years and have a group of them .

Speaker 3

Yeah , I don't really hear that too much it's also a little red flag to me too . What if you ?

Speaker 2

if you can't do that , okay yeah you don't have like a , at least like one or two . That's to me that's like a red flag . Like you can't hold on to , everything at your friends fault you know , so , or your discernment of picking friends . Something's wrong there yeah , I agree .

Speaker 1

Okay . So this one is kind of it's still in a relationship , but I feel like we you're gonna have a different answer than than what you just had , how we was willing to forgive that one time .

Stealing vs. Cheating Boundaries

Speaker 1

What about if your girlfriend steals from you and she doesn't ? It's not like even the cheating . She didn't tell you , but you just found out that she stole from you like she took a hundred dollars out of your . She didn't tell you , but you just found out that she stole from you Like she took $100 out of your wallet and didn't tell you and had no intentions . It was like ill intent . I wanted that .

Speaker 2

Damn . No , I can't stay . Okay , I can't forget it , because that's the tip of the iceberg . That's what it looks like to me . There's a tip of the iceberg . That's what it looks like to me . There's a tip of the iceberg . How would you feel ? Because I know you're like . You be working , working , you be Ubering this boom , da-da-da-da-da-da , and then a girl just stole .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I mean that's trifling Like , because it was really another reflection . Now it's like more simple than what it sounds , Because really the conversation is like how are we willing to forgive with having sex with another partner ?

Speaker 2

but we're willing , we're , we have a straight line with stealing , like taking a hundred dollars .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , a one-time hundred dollars , right , right because I mean if yeah , even though that's one time like we can have a like , a um a thing to where it's like where I watched another movie or you know , technically you stole that . Uh-huh yeah so we have small lines of thievery that we can live within .

Speaker 2

Yeah .

Speaker 1

So them taking something from you is like a hard line .

Speaker 2

That's disrespect . Okay , yeah , that's like nigga , like that's , I don't know . That's a what's she like ? Nigga , like that that's , I don't know .

Speaker 1

That's a what's she like . I used it to pay for bills .

Speaker 2

If you said it like that , I'm still hating . I use it to pay .

Speaker 1

Oh yeah , that's the line they're going to go with anyway .

Speaker 2

What bill you know ? They don't . Hmm , I don't know . Even if she did do that , I mean I could see us having a conversation or whatever , if it was like a bill thing .

Speaker 2

But I doubt it yeah , like if she just if she actually just stole that shit . That's a lot , like we were saying earlier , it's more like a character thing , like why would you do that ? Because in relationships it feels like that best friend factor is like the foundation really , or like that's the shit that keeps it together for real , or one of the main pillars for real , um , or one of the main pillars . So you know , when you do that it just kind of like messes up a lot . You know like , yeah , like I've been in relationships where the best friend thing like I , I don't like even us like there's certain things you you probably know just second nature . I would just never do just off of the the you know , the friendship , so certain things when it comes to that , yeah , I don't see me like moving past that , because then it's like that's the found , literally the foundation , like love and all that is like smoking mirrors for real , but like actually trusting your person . That's what holds the foundation together . So I doubt it okay .

Speaker 1

So what if she stole a Chanel bag from the store ? So it's not directly you , it's not me , but she's , she stole from the store yeah , baby girl , why you do that ?

Speaker 2

why Because .

Speaker 1

I wanted it Because I wanted it .

Speaker 2

And nobody was looking . I would tell her you got to stop doing that . I would tell her you got to stop doing that or I can't be with you . But like , yeah , to me that that I don't know . If you keep doing that , then yeah , I can't be with you , because then I'm going to be messed up out here . I'm going to be walking out the store with you and all of a sudden , Say there's no consequences ever to her stealing , she just likes to do it .

Speaker 3

I can't do it Because my karma is great , yeah , so .

Speaker 2

I can't be around people that will mess up my karma is great , yeah . So like I can't , I can't . I can't be around people that are like mess up my karma , even though you know like if you do that you get away with I don't know how you doing it . You should stop . I had family members who used to steal and stuff all the time never got caught . I'm like you're not really made for jail . Like you should stop , you know . But that don't mean I'm gonna stop picking up .

Speaker 2

They call or whatever okay , yeah , yeah yeah , but like no , I can't , I can't , and I'm a woman that I'm around all the time . I don't want that karma on me , that's just sliding off on me . Nah , I believe in that shit .

Speaker 1

Okay , I got you , so what ? So we're willing to forgive on others . It's just the multiple actions . So it's like , hey , I can , you can do it one time , and but that's it that's a forgivable offense the oh yeah , the chanel bag . Yeah , that's crazy um .

Speaker 2

First of all , how are you that good ? But um yeah , I'm not gonna lie . She said she stole the chanel bag like I would in the back . I wouldn't say it , but there would be a little bit of respect there , like how did you do that ? Oh , okay , you know you got to stop , but like that was some nice shit , how did you do that ? Camera's on , but yeah , no , I don't see myself . I can't . Yeah , bro , like , spiritually , like I cannot I worked so hard to get to this point Like I cannot , like ask somebody else like mess that up , yeah .

Speaker 2

Like I feel like my karma is just really good . So yeah , I can't have anything messing that shit up . Understood .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 2

What would you feel like if they just came back with a Gucci bag and then , yeah , we just straight up with you .

Speaker 1

Yeah , like , yeah , I stole it it .

Speaker 1

I'm not gonna like it at all yeah I'm it's , it's gonna play in the back of my mind and I'm gonna um , not I , I . I think that breaking up like I can't believe you that it's over , I don't see me leaning that heavy on it . But my mind goes a little bit different . So I'm going to be like a Gucci bag . I deliberately chose a high value bag on purpose , because stealing groceries is one thing to eat . So if you're doing that , or you're like I needed socks and I didn't have the money to pay for socks , or or something like that , I can understand and grasp my head around like you would . If you had the means , you wouldn't have did that thing right , right right but you don't need a high value bag .

Speaker 2

So that tells me where your mind is at what if she said , yeah , I bought it , but I was going to sell it . I already have it on Facebook Marketplace and I just wanted to pay our rent .

Speaker 1

Why are you with my broke ass ? Nah , I'm just playing . I can respect that more , but let me do the gritty stuff yeah , yeah , yeah yeah , and not to say that I would . I would you know i'ma lean on my family yeah everybody pitching 75 , your boy , yeah , don't got it , you know , and I and that not to kind of get us off . You know , you know a wild term , but I would hate doing that hurts more than anything .

Speaker 1

You know like asking people for money . I need your assistance . Yeah , with a bill or something that hurts . That's a lot to do . Yeah , on my side . So if I'm doing that , I need it .

Speaker 3

Uh-huh .

Speaker 1

And maybe less so on my mom , but in terms of like asking everybody to pitch in to help me pay for something yeah yeah , that's um , that's but she knows , she know that , she know you ain't gonna do it .

Speaker 1

That's why she came back with the Gucci bag no , I will do it if I have to you know , yeah , so and I got , and this is also why having family around you is important , like even having a church family . There's times to where I where I had to ask on behalf of another person for this thing , because they needed help and the church not to say too much , but the church assisted in that for them . She did casually go , but they assisted with her paying that bill .

Speaker 1

It was significant , like $400 . Yeah , so coming together and doing something and having a foundation of people that can willing to help and pitch in means a lot , yeah , yeah . So not to get off on a tangent , but uh , back to the high value bag . I , yeah , so I chose a high value bag because it really is a mindset thing . Is that you're really that ? It's because a bag is a class , this thing for me , it says hey , I am more important because I carry this thing yeah because if it's fashionable , why don't you wear the knockoff like ?

Speaker 1

it's the exact same thing if it was how it looks the aesthetic of it .

Speaker 3

Yeah , yeah , but , yeah , but it's like I got a fucking Gucci , yeah , yeah exactly Now .

Speaker 1

That changes everything on your mentality and you're willing to take for that . Then it tells me kind of who you are as a person a little bit . Maybe that's a little bit deeper than you know the normal person .

Speaker 2

I mean , that's the reality of the situation for sure , because why well , I was about to say why do people be got the term ? But when everybody goes into the Gucci store and grabs everything , it's a word for it .

Speaker 1

But um but that's , that's that's not true , they , they getting it to sell it and stuff like that . I don't think so I think they're going to sell some of that stuff .

Speaker 1

But , it's really for them . Yeah , I think that people who are thieves will get it to sell . Looting oh that word . People who steal 100 iPhones from Apple yeah , they're probably selling it to a certain degree , but if 100 people are running into the Gucci store , a small fraction of them are going to be selling it online . You think a small fraction ? I think a small fraction , for sure . I think it's more . I think it's just a high value classism .

Speaker 1

When people be looting the Gucci stores , they don't be going to the men's section like that and you know why I feel that way is that there is so much value to a hardware store if people don't . And tools are very easy to sell , very easy to pawn people don't go into the hardware store stealing stuff and they don't get 395 for this pair of scissors , or or a wrench . What are you talking about ? No , there's I'm saying there's a lot of high value items at the hardware store where you gonna sell that the same place as you still what are you ?

Speaker 1

selling ebay . I'm , I'm , I'm saying those things . Of course it's not gonna . You can get a ten thousand dollar bag and you can sell that easily , okay , I , I agree , so what ?

Speaker 2

give me an item like what , what is , what is a high price item at the at the home depot that they gonna get at home depot this , this , this doesn't know , but I'm waiting on the answer .

Speaker 1

It's a thousand dollars worth of equipment , but I'm just saying , okay , they don't . They're not apples to apples , my guy , but what ?

Speaker 1

I was getting at , there's more lows . There's different type of hardware stores that you could go and take from , versus the one Gucci store in your state . So that's what I'm saying . There's the frequency of getting those tools that you can probably do a lot more with . I know it's not apples to apples , but I'm just saying , yeah , you'll see a lot more things being stolen and resold . If that was just simply the the issue , it's really they're going to wear this item and show it off .

Speaker 2

I just don't hear about people looting stores like that and like the men's section is cleared out at the gucci store . I don't ever hear that they're taking .

Speaker 1

Whatever They'll take a scarf . You know what ?

Speaker 2

I mean , or maybe you know , they are gifting their women with it . That's probably true a little bit .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I mean .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I get what you're saying . I do believe that there's some percentage of it is being gifted , or worn or used and I think that's majority of the cases . You know , you know , keep in mind .

Speaker 1

I don't know looters , right , I was just going to say speculation yeah but for the most part , how I see people act is most likely they're taking the thing because it makes them feel good , like the , the the high value item . Yeah , okay , so , and but that's to my point is if , if that's the thing you're taking and you don't need the thing , then that tells me where your head is at and it's hard for me to respect it . Yeah , yeah , because now that carries into different ways and now I think , if you have that type of mindset , I can rebuild for real , because you're always going to want for the things I don't care for or desire , or spend your money in places where , like , you're spending money to make feel powerful around other people in a sense yeah , and it's like that's just not what's important .

Speaker 1

Yeah , so I was like , how can we grow like I mean , unless I , you know , hit a lick in the lottery to where all these things don't matter ? How can like realistically , right now these things don't matter .

Speaker 2

How can like realistically ?

Speaker 1

or somebody just won , damn , two people actually I don't think I'll ever do it , maybe maybe one day . Lottery uh , I've did it a couple times , not that I felt excited about winning , it was because my granny wanted me to get her a lot of tickets , so I bought me one too , right so that's my experience .

Speaker 2

I used to go to Arkansas every it was damn near like every Saturday at some point with my dad and I had his nasty as McDonald's coffee before I started drinking coffee myself and we would go there and he never won . And I'm just like I'm not playing this dumb ass game .

Speaker 1

It , it is , and it kind of preys on your excitement a little bit too . When I do the scratch-off

Gender and Leadership Under Pressure

Speaker 1

, I'll get the scratch-off . The insurance company , every birthday , will send me a scratch-off ticket . I do get excited . All I have to do is one more hit 5,000 .

Speaker 2

Seven damn Smaller ones . I know what you're talking about , that shit like Willy Wonka , bro . That's crazy , though , that the people who actually win that oh it's nine times out of ten . They blow that off of cocaine and in las vegas sounds lit sounds lit got good memories very .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I think I saw a video one dude . He was like I don't regret it , like I think I remember seeing that that's that's the guy that I'm talking about . Yeah , he cocaine and whores in las vegas . Yeah , man , he was just like man a great time he was working at like uh , he was either like driving buses or a garbage truck guy .

Speaker 3

There's a better way of saying it yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , a janitorial engineer . Yeah , sanitation worker yeah , there you go , yeah , yeah . I mean , yeah , I'm glad he didn't kill himself , because that's hard to go back to .

Speaker 2

God , I remember losing a bunch of money one time . Yeah Fuck , oh my God , oh my God . I remember that I was up up , Super up . I feel like about anything . And then , when that shit was gone , dog . I was like I see why people be killing themselves . I see it . This is alright .

Speaker 1

What would you have did differently ?

Speaker 2

Not . Well , I didn't blow the money .

Speaker 1

You didn't .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I didn't blow the money .

Speaker 2

I just didn't Set up things to make the money multiply right uh , yeah , I didn't invest and I was literally doing things that I always wanted to do and to be so like the . When it came to kaya , my daughter , like I was here all the time . We started like going to better hotels , you know , better experiences , the relationship I was in , we was going out often I I was spending the money on like not necessarily me , but like the people around me and just being like the guy that I always wanted to be .

Speaker 1

Yeah and that whole start going down and down and down yeah , I'm like how we I go to other hotel do you regret telling your significant other at the time that you had that money ?

Speaker 2

uh , no , no , cuz that's what is . What is that ?

Speaker 1

I don't even want to be in a relationship like that because do you feel like they asked for things a little bit more ? No , she didn't . No , she didn't ask .

Speaker 2

I was just being the guy , like you didn't have to ask a question on , um , uh , uh , certain things you know , like if , uh , you're budgeting with your woman or are you budgeting yourself on things that you want to do , what she wants to do with the family , wants to do your family , her family , you know , it just was just like , yeah , sure , cool , let's do it done . I just wanted to be that . I always saw myself as that person , so when I had it , I was just being that person and , yeah , the money ran out . And then I , man , the money ran out and I lost the job that shit was man .

Speaker 2

I was like I get it . I get it , man , if I had a couple kids at that time frame . We had a house , a home . Oh my god , like man , I see , I see why these be like I'm checking . Yeah , you know what I'm done .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , so yeah I got a question for you . What's ?

Speaker 2

that . So All right . So in terms of going off of that , I guess I'll come back to that . So , in terms of my question is , in terms of leadership roles like presidency , government role , big , big , big roles that have a lot of pressure in it , who do you think can hold that pressure more , a man or a woman , and why ? And then I'm going to talk after that Okay .

Speaker 1

Who can handle that pressure more ? You know , it's easy for me to say man .

Speaker 2

Yeah right .

Speaker 1

I'm leaning towards what I've seen and what I've known you know what I mean . So I've seen later positions and so I've seen that more . So my only understanding is men , but so but I've never seen a woman and like an executive leadership to where it's like , hey , we gotta lean on this person and she gonna take us through there yeah , right , like , yeah , like the president , some shit yeah yeah and uh .

Speaker 1

so I necessarily haven't seen a situation like that to where I could truly know for real , but I think that I almost want to say that it's close to being somewhat both , just because there's , you know , when you ask that question I lean to the strongest women I know . And how would they handle them ? So , like , my grandmother is very , very strong and she tends to handle things way like can take emotions of herself out of it better than some of the men I knew . So I look on people like that and say I think that she could hold her composure , but I don't know . It's a different level of stress and it's a different level of getting it . And then I also want to leave where another woman put their body on the line and I've seen that too to where a man's getting his ass beat and then her woman tries to step in and help . She's putting her body on the line .

Speaker 3

No , I ain't talking about that .

Speaker 1

No , I'm just saying I'm talking about body on the line , like a woman's willing to sacrifice herself in order to help in a situation . That's why I'm so . I'm just trying to answer the question .

Speaker 2

I guess you do have to think sort of like that In those big , big , big .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I'm just saying like Are you willing to go , sacrifice yourself ?

Speaker 3

Uh huh .

Speaker 1

Yeah , cause that's In those positions . That's kind of what it is , um , and so If you got the know , how you got the strength , then you know it's . I , you know there's a lot of men that's gonna crack . Of course there's going to be a lot of women that's going to crack as well . So and that's you know , that's only for the few .

Speaker 1

And I want to lean towards both , but I'm gonna give it to a man just because I've seen it too many , too many more times than that um , I think , I think it's um trendy or like , kind of easier to say that too , like for me .

Speaker 2

But I was on instagram one day and I was scrolling and it was this guy . He asked somebody that question and they said a man basically um , they're more , uh , adapt . This is what he said . They're more adept to deal with stress and things like that .

Speaker 2

And then the guy , he had a response to it and he said that you know , in a woman's body , like in their spine , there's something there that allows them to handle stress actually more than men because of the whole birth factor and , um , things that kind of like relate to that in their body . And then he followed it up with Just think about it , who has , who has a significantly Higher amount of suicide rates ? And that's like men . And I thought about , I was like , oh shit , that's literally , that's literally factual information Of men not handling pressure well over women and it's like a statistic of niggas just checking out because they can't handle the shit . Yeah , there might be more pressure on a man , but yeah , I , I don't know , but it was . It was very interesting .

Speaker 1

The suicide rate is I is . I feel what he's saying , but I think that's a little bit skewed , because men check out differently than women like we're less likely to swallow a bunch of pills in an attempt to kill ourselves yeah , we do we protect the bullet to the head , we do the jump off a building , we do the thing that's actually going to kill us versus the chances of survival so we just real niggas , I'm just saying like I mean , you know somebody who tried to , you know up themselves and things like that most yeah yeah , so we know that suicide attempts .

Speaker 1

Uh , we know women that attempted suicide . Yeah , I don't know any man actually yeah .

Speaker 2

I think it's usually more often yeah than not . I've heard about women at some point trying to do that maybe you are kind of right , because it's just like you know what I'm going to do it , and that could be the difference but the pills and the , it's very interesting and then it's .

Speaker 1

I think that what keeps a man typically is like societal , like women are more social butterflies , if we're talking about um , you know , offering themselves like the people around you exactly .

Speaker 3

Yeah , yeah it's more .

Speaker 1

It's more , it's harder to uh . A woman's going to be more accepted than a man and for whatever reasons , whether men macho humano , you perceive yourself a person as a threat more than a woman would you know ?

Speaker 1

so there's a good way , but I don't want to stay on attention on that as more as , uh , leaning towards adapting with stress Cause , like I said , I go to my grandmother and she's just built different . So I think that and I think she can handle things far superior than a lot of these guys . I mean , she grew up in a different time .

Speaker 3

She was actually homeless .

Speaker 1

Like you know , somebody trying to touch her and she left her . She left that house to be homeless .

Speaker 2

Yeah , and living on the street for her .

Speaker 1

So you're just going to be built different different . You're gonna go through any means to get what you need . Yeah , yeah you . She doesn't fold easily right literally easy thing . I panic , she don't even concern , you know so it's just levels to this , yeah .

Speaker 1

So that's why I said I was like I feel like it could be evenly matched , but I I just seen it more . So if I'm putting my money where my mouth is , it's going to be on the man , but it's not going to surprise me like wow , you know , like I can't believe she held her own . I may be shocked depending on the person , but I've seen just women like really stand tall Facts , yeah .

Speaker 2

So yeah , that's a very interesting , um , very , very interesting uh point that you're saying . Yeah , I do get that as well . When it comes to the community thing , that is , that is a little different , that is a little different , yeah and uh , and then yeah , so , and also it , it's going to be different .

Speaker 1

So I'm going to say that , more times than not , a man's going to take that leadership role , but I think that women can . Ultimately , just because how , even your daughter do you call her princess ? You know what I mean , like maybe not the term itself , but you treating her in that way . You're delicate , you're soft with her yeah , you're gonna tell her she's beautiful . You're gonna give them all those positive affirmations my grandmother . From my understanding she , really , even though I , she is beautiful , um , she didn't come with the environment oh , yeah , so how ?

Speaker 1

she was treated is going to be differently .

Speaker 2

And I'm not really just saying she was beautiful .

Speaker 1

Yeah , it's different . She's like a quarter Indian and I see her old pictures next to her daughters in prom . I'm not even kidding , you couldn't tell the difference of who was the daughter .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , yeah . I was like , look at you , I was like you was a sex symbol back in the day , you know , yeah , so , um , so , uh , so it's different how we raise our we raise our women just to be soft with yeah not to put a lot on them so it was interesting . Uh , you know , I was listening to like a like the red pill , uh side of things and for all , what does ?

Speaker 2

it mean like , uh , it's , it's a matrix .

Speaker 1

You take the blue pill , you like the red pill . Uh side of things and for all . What does it mean ? Like , uh , it's , it's a matrix . You take the blue pill , you take the red pill . That means you're out , you're awoke yeah , so they use that as a as a term to where like you understand of life .

Speaker 1

You know , you kind of have your eyes wide open . You understand it for fully for what it is , I think if I , yeah , so , but it was he did . Um , I always try to lean into like the fringes of what people have to say , because there can be some truth to what they're saying . And so when , uh , in germany there would be these guys this is like in the world war ii area era they would intentionally scar themselves because that shows hardness . Yeah , like yeah .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Or some people even in the UFC . They'll intentionally mess up their ears to get that cauliflower ear . You know that cauliflower ?

Speaker 2

ear , yeah , yeah , do that On purpose .

Speaker 1

Yeah , because it's a sign of toughness .

Speaker 2

I mean , I would be a little bit more intimidated .

Speaker 3

Yeah , exactly , yeah , for sure .

Speaker 1

Exactly , he's , exactly , yeah , exactly he's been through some things . But if a woman has the scars that's more trauma and she's been through things , so she's less value .

Speaker 2

Where a man values himself higher if he's in battle yeah , so yeah , yeah , so yeah , like the masculine energy , I guess , yeah , yeah yeah , so .

Speaker 1

So I think it's . It's a type of like , and maybe it's more psychological than anything it's like men are more bred for this , more than women have . Because you're most as a father , I know I'm going to be soft with my daughter give her more love than you know .

Speaker 2

Like bro , stop crying yeah , oh god , I was just talking about just yesterday with somebody and I was just like man , I feel like I'm going to be different , like it's not going to be the same , which is like natural . But , um , I I really wonder sometimes how different the interaction would be with who I am to my son than who I am to my daughter . They might experience two totally different me's and I thought about that one day .

Speaker 2

I was like damn because , like when I was growing up , my mom , me and my mom , it was like the best ever , like she was so fun all the time and with my dad we weren't like too close for real , like when I was growing up and when I look at , uh , I mean he was still cool , but like when I look at how I am with kaya , it's just like all I want to do is make her like kind of what you're saying , like make her laugh , enjoy herself , enjoy life .

Speaker 2

I'm gonna be that to an extent with my son , but like , if he's crying and shit like dog , you know what I'm saying , like I would be , I would be way more . I don't have all the answers to it cause I don't have a son , but , um , I know things would definitely be different and it would not be this Barbie house upbringing , you know , vibe . So I think when I was younger uh , this is just random , but when I was younger , uh , I used to play with my sister a lot because we like we were really close . Uh , we were closer than what we are now at one point and I would play with her uh a lot with like her dolls and and I and I think my dad , he was getting worried or some shit . So he like I think he maybe stopped playing with the dolls or he like trying to like interchange the toys out , just so I wouldn't go into the route of whatever .

Speaker 1

Nah , give me that barber yeah .

Speaker 2

Things are just different . Things are just the way different yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , no , no , I understood that and yeah , and I I I understood probably where your dad was probably coming from , like , hey , I need to probably do a little bit yeah because he may think this is normal uh-huh or whatever I don't know , would I do that ? Maybe , yeah , I mean , if he , if he playing with a bunch of peak things like was you choosing the barbie over the race car ? I don't remember . Okay , yeah , but I had a lot of .

Speaker 2

I had a lot of a lot of other toys , yeah , yeah . So I don't think I would just be like , I don't think I would just be like overly like that , but I would . If I saw that , I would try to test it out a little bit and I would , like you know , put the dinosaur on the table just see what you see if he you know , no , daddy , I want her .

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah , no , shout out , shout out , shout out , shout out , shout out . But , um , okay , yeah , no , no , no , no it . I've just seen people grow to a point . I I had this guy , he's a mentor , or was basically a mentor of mine . Uh , um , and you know about , I ain't gonna say it like on here , but I came into the crib one day with a pink hoodie . He said take that off I was like what like it's , it's cool . I ain't seen that pink hoodie since he had to have .

Speaker 3

Took that shit while I was not looking at through that bitch away yeah like that over you know these are older , yeah , yeah , but uh well , he don't you know care my other best friends dad my other best friend's dad . Oh , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah you need to take that off .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , yeah I was like , damn man , it's kind of chilly in here .

Speaker 2

I got you yeah and I ain't never see that shit again and I think he had , he had to have done so well , distracting me or something , because I it was like a week past and I didn't remember where I put it and I just put two or two together like they might do that . But you know there are some people that that that again , like the older generation , the more you go back I'm sure it just gets like more and more strict with stuff like that . So , yeah , my son , if I see him playing with dolls , I I wouldn't like smack his hand no but I would .

Speaker 2

I would try to . You know you want to go to the arcade .

Speaker 1

Right , I'm with you . I don't like to discipline physically , but I know that sometimes it's necessary .

Speaker 2

Yeah .

Speaker 1

I feel like I'll be tough but fair . Like if what I was telling my cousin my little cousin when he was staying with us for a little , if what I was telling my cousin my little cousin when he was staying with us for a little bit , I was like , hey , you do the right things , you have fun . This can be the easiest way , easiest thing for you or the hardest thing for it . That's literally your choice mm-hmm you know ?

Speaker 1

hey , just keep up with me , you know , do you got ? You know not necessarily bedtime , but be home at a certain time . Let me know what's going on . Um , make sure you're doing your work and you get . You're going to get my easy money . Just , I'm just giving you like little assignments so I can give you money , like take out the trash like it's 20 bucks a week .

Speaker 1

Then you get 20 bucks a week from my grandmother , that's 40 . That's , that's a good , that's good weekly for uh , somebody who was in middle school at the time , or maybe in , I think it was middle school , but uh , yeah , until you don't , then I was working them to death , like literally working out yeah yeah , to where he's like . He can't even make it up the stairs . He just kind of passed out on the floor .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I told you , yeah .

Speaker 1

So I and same thing for my nephews like , hey , I want you to have fun , we're gonna . You're gonna come home , you're gonna have be at the y swim , do what you want to play basketball , we're gonna work out a little bit and then , um , you got your work and then after that you do what you want until it's bedtime .

Speaker 1

Yeah and then so we , I'm willing to try to create things . There's money if you do what you want until it's bedtime . Yeah , so I'm one to try to create things . There's money . If you do well , you get good grades , then you get this . If you don't , you get money to take away from you . So there's a game that we play . So what I told them was you got to make this difficult for me . Giving you grace and having fun is more difficult for me , because I don't really have that time to . But when you don't do the right things , oh , that's easy , just go to your room .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Oh , I don't have to pay you . That's money I keep . Right , I win , I literally win when you don't do well . So you doing this , it doesn't hurt me at all because I ultimately get to keep that time . I don't have to spend . I don't have to spend cause you're in trouble or I don't have to . I keep my money . I get to do what I want not what you want .

Speaker 1

So you're supposed to make this difficult for me , and I'm glad I want to see that happen . I want you to make it difficult for me . I want to like dang , I gotta work some more to make sure I gotta pay my nephew for his age yeah yeah , so and I want to see that for you .

Speaker 1

But when , when you make it easy , I'm not gonna feel bad . Yeah , I keep it off , yeah , and um , I framed it like , and they understood it , not to say that . You know , ultimately they they did well on their own , but you know , still I wanted to always have the incentives and of course it's going to fluctuate , sometimes like hey , I don't gotta pay much , or something like dang , I really gotta go out of pocket , um , so yeah , yeah , that makes sense .

Speaker 2

Some um tough , but yeah , is that tough .

Speaker 1

I mean yeah , I mean it's , it's well I'm just saying tough in terms of the working out . That working out is tough . Now you're having a strict environment of what you can do . I'm using loose examples Not to . I didn't necessarily need to beat on you . Yeah , yeah , yeah , I mean , if it never came to that , then there's . You know what I mean . You shouldn't even be here , yeah , yeah , yeah , I mean like at a certain age . Why am I whooping you for ? Yeah , yeah , yeah yeah , Like you got to be doing something drastic for me to have to put hands and feet on you for yeah .

Speaker 1

So when I say hands and feet ,

Parenting and Discipline Approaches

Speaker 1

yeah , yeah , yeah , Because I know what the drastic is and I know what the level is .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Like bro , why are you stealing , breaking into cars , taking a guy ?

Speaker 2

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , that's very drastic . That's penalized , and if you're bringing drama to a house , you got to go . You can't be here .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , so that's where I'm just going to kick you out and go back to where your mom and dad is . Yeah , so it's really going to be that .

Speaker 2

I mean it's fair .

Speaker 1

Yeah , this has similarly happened . It's not like I'm just speaking out of turn . I was like , no , the next thing that happened , if this is the route he's going , then he is going to bring this back to our house . You're too old for this .

Speaker 2

I don't have the time for this . Yeah , yeah so you gotta be gone ? No , definitely makes sense the difference between religion and spirituality . Do you think that one can exist without the other ?

Speaker 1

spirituality and religion they can like okay spirituality ? I guess yes . They can't like okay Spirituality ? I guess yes .

Speaker 2

And you really have to get the meaning on it , it's not really a mean it's just like .

Speaker 1

So I'm trying not to , I'm trying to use the proper words for it , but it's going to sound insulting , insulting a little bit . I don't really respect spirituality like that . Uh um , because and no disrespect , but spirituality is saying I believe there's a God and I know he's real , but I'm not putting the work in to further what he wants for me and that's bringing more people to God , that's actually celebrating him going to church and I feel like it's just . I think it's just kind of like cop out .

Speaker 2

How can you not have that ?

Speaker 1

Or do you just think like Because if you believe in God and you believe the Bible is real . They talk about celebrating and worship . Yeah , and I don't see when you talk about spirituality , I don't see the worship portion . I don't see For real .

Speaker 1

I don't see that you delivering more people to him . Yeah , so , and that's kind of where I land on that . On that , there's actually , you know , think , rules that shoot that needs to be followed , and I don't think that's spirituality , I think it's just easy . It's easy way to say , hey , I , I love god , I feel like I know that he's real , but I don't want to . Yeah , I lazily don't want to do do the things that's within the guidelines .

Speaker 2

I guess I don't like fully agree with what you said just because I knew you wouldn't .

Speaker 2

I get what you're saying , though I think it's more of a thing . I think it's more of a thing . I think it's more of a thing for people on that , um , like when you , when you're talking about that , about about religion in general , about , like you know , bringing people to God and stuff like that , I agree with that and I feel like that's definitely something that should be done . I do feel that it can be more of a thing for people in that religious world if we were to just separate the two and there wasn't like a blend or whatever . I do feel like there are more people on the religious side who take that part more seriously , because it seems like the more the people that are like spiritual are more like to themselves if that makes sense because spiritual is .

Speaker 1

I mean , I think there's levels to it , but they're just kind of like . When I hear , like I'm spiritual but I'm not religious , what does that ultimately mean literally ? What does that say ?

Speaker 2

well , if somebody were to say that , I would take it more so . Like , like religion is like this , this , this , like cut concrete , this is what it is . There's . There's no wiggle room around any of this . Like everything happened in here , which is a book it could be the Bible , the Quran , this , the death , whatever and it seems like when someone says it like that , it seems more like everything is just like cutthroat . This is exactly what it is , but I feel like that that uh phrase , what's the phrase again ?

Speaker 2

I'm spiritual , but I'm not religious I feel like that phrase comes more from the evolution of these books in general and how like a lot of it has to do with man . Like there are certain books in the Bible that's not in there anymore . We'll never know fully what was like completely in there , and we just talk about one Bible we ain't talking about like other religions . So there's like a man-made portion to that and I feel like that's what they're saying more . So it's just like I believe in god .

Speaker 2

I believe in they could believe in everything that's in the bible yeah , I mean , but not necessarily , I don't know like there's a thought of not knowing okay and I maybe can help a little bit .

Speaker 1

So god didn't put a pen to paper and write the .

Speaker 1

Bible . So , yeah , all of it is constructed by man . So , yeah , yeah . So the Old Testament comes from the Torah , which is , you know , jewish and then Jesus . So in the Old Testament it talks about their coming back in the form of God coming back , and I'm going to try to oversimplify this God's going to come back . The Son of God talks about all that in the New Testament . Jesus is supposed to fulfill that Old Testament . That's why you have the New Testament , which we follow . The Old Testament is pretty much the Torah , which we follow . Um , so , uh , so the old testament is pretty much the torah , or what jews follow , because they don't believe jesus was the son of god so they feel like they're still going to be messiah that comes back .

Speaker 1

So that's why they still follow the old testament , the new testament , which christians follow um and um . So that was put together . I forgot the name of it and sorry for blanking out , but that was put together by a group of men Getting all the historical facts and books together by the apostles and different sources , and there is other texts in which was left out because they couldn't properly be verified . So that was a collective of books . So , like Matthew , mark , luke and John , if you read them they're all accounts following Jesus . So you have a different letter from Matthew , mark and it gives it in that same history timeline . Just so because there are witnesses to verify , you need several witnesses to believe something matches up yeah

Religion vs. Spirituality Debate

Speaker 1

exactly .

Speaker 1

Um , so so all of this coming from uh collectively in the form of a man , um , where was I going with that ? Uh ? So so now let's go back to that point of talking to uh about religion , or spiritual , not religious , it's like okay . So how I looked at is like I'm being led by a different force in who I identify as god , like spiritual like hey , I believe I have a feeling as God , like spiritual , like hey , I believe I have a feeling .

Speaker 1

I know I'm a good person , yeah , and why can't they be the same ? Because you , I mean we . Because , because there's commands , there is a way to act , as guidelines that we follow , and that's what considers us Christian . Are you a believer of Christ ? And that's like one of the foundations of being a Christian .

Speaker 1

So so that's kind of where you start , and if you feel like that , and then there's rules that you follow , not to say that we're all sinners , we're all going to act in sin , but to not try to make a commit to that guideline , it's like alright , well , you're spiritual , but you don't know the . But to not try to make a commit to that guideline is like all right , well , you're spiritual , but you don't know the guiding forces . It may feel right and you feel like you're a good person , but to somebody who believes in abortion versus who doesn't , you know , I feel like this is not a life , yada , yada , the science says this , and then that may feel right to you , but me , as a christian , I'm like nah , that ain't . Yeah , so there's guidelines of what we follow . You could be , you could be led by the devil and you not even know it because you feel spiritual , I feel this thing that could be a demon .

Speaker 1

You know , like you don't . You don't know because you're rationalizing your mind , because we are human . We may think we're being led properly and we may have this ultimate spirit around us that may , that makes us feel good or it feels like the right way to go , but you truly don't know that . Yeah , and so that's a . There's guidelines that you need to take , uh , to take , and making sure , because you know the devil is real and you know the devil is convincing and I am very much smarter than you .

Speaker 2

You're right .

Speaker 1

So you got to make sure that , hey , I'm following the word , because I don't want to be led astray . I need to be in the church and , being with others who can help keep me on track , I can worship him together , we can all have conversations together and being in an environment where I'm with like-minded individuals yeah so . So this isn't . It's not just we need to go to church every day , it's actually necessity . So let me ask you this .

Speaker 2

So if there is a person that's , um , spiritual , or they call themselves spiritual because it sounds like when you hear the word spiritual you only think of one thing or one type of person , I'm what I'm saying is that from my perspective , I believe like a person can kind of do both in a way . So let's say there's a person , that , that , that does both , that does follow all that , but they say spirituality and it's not . I don't know .

Speaker 2

It's like how you're explaining it is it's kind of like explaining it as like other , but that's not really like how I look at it other other , as in like you're not religious , like you're not , you're not on this side , but like , how I see it , what I'm seeing in my head is , or the question is do you think that a person can be quote spiritual , like you know , outside meditating tree hugger did like that person feel like they're connected to the answer . All that type of person but also reads the bible , knows the bible back and forth , only follows those commands as well , and do you feel like that can be one in the same ?

Speaker 1

um , so the devil knows the bible back and forth include yeah , he knows the bible too but like um , but what ?

Speaker 2

I'm saying is is that do you feel like both of y'all are still one in the same under god , as both of y'all are still sinners ? I mean yeah , yeah so why is there such a hard line ?

Speaker 1

you .

Speaker 2

Well , you asked for my opinion oh yeah , no , no , I'm enjoying it , like you know .

Speaker 1

I mean yeah yeah , so why is there such a hard line ? Well , you asked for my opinion . Oh , yeah , no , no , no , I'm enjoying it , Like you know . So I'm saying that I ain't going to come like nigga , get the F out of here with that spiritual shit . Yeah , Like I ain't that with it . You know what ?

Speaker 3

I mean , oh , right , right , right but yeah , yeah , that with it .

Speaker 1

You know what I mean . Oh right , right , yeah , yeah , yeah . So , but yeah is there a part of me it'd be like I mean okay , yeah , yeah , like , yeah , all right , like that , that it doesn't carry much weight with me . You , you might as well just say I'd rather hear it say I believe in god . I , I just like doing me you know , but that's like the same and I respect that more because you're real with yourself saying , hey , I just love having sex with these hoes .

Speaker 1

You know what I mean , Like I can respect that more . Then you give an answer to where it feels good with you , Like this feels good to say you know , yeah . So like I want you to be real with yourself and and just saying , hey , I'm spiritual or hey , I like I don't care to go to church on sunday . It's boring like just say , say something , say that yeah , yeah , yeah yeah , versus but okay , well , I get what you're saying .

Speaker 2

It seems like well in my perception of what you're saying . It seems like well in my perception of what you're saying . It sounds like it's still one in the same . They're just using the word spiritual .

Speaker 1

You just don't like the word spiritual . It just feels like you're kind of lying to yourself .

Speaker 2

Yeah , but it's like , it's like you're . I don't make it sound good .

Speaker 1

Like like be real . You like you just don't like going to church , you find it boring , or or you like you just don't like going to church . You find it boring or you like your time to yourself , but you believe in God . You just don't want to take the steps to go any further than belief . Yeah , you want to make it to . Yes yes , and that's kind of really where it's at . It's like hey , I want to get an understanding , but I want to do it on my terms .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , and I'm like okay , I can respect the realness of it , but you're saying you know , I don't . I feel like you know , churches , they all judgy , and yada , yada . That's every human ever like . Yeah , you're saying something that that is just a normal person like Like , yeah , we all sin .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

We always go like you do something , we're going to have a response to it . Yeah , yeah , so , yeah , yeah . Like you can shoot a man in the chest and like every Christian is like not supposed to feel a way about that . Like , hey , we ain't supposed to judge , we ain't supposed to . Yeah , we're going to have a human reaction . I think we're all humans together . Yeah , yeah , Gossip .

Speaker 2

Yes , people are going to gossip and talk about you .

Speaker 1

It is what it is . Oh well , like I'm sure people talk about me in my church , I care next to little about it . Yeah , Like literally zero , that's pretty clear . Like it's close , it's very , it's a very thin line .

Speaker 3

Yeah .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I , you know , I don't , I don't wild out about my conservatives , I kind of keep it , Cause I did one time and it was a whole thing , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . Like they got upset I was like they're way too you know , like they hard-lining democrats . Yeah , and I was like all right , I'll just keep that to myself .

Speaker 2

Um , but yeah , um , so , yeah , so I think it's one and the same , basically . Yeah , I mean those two words .

Speaker 1

Yeah , there's there's guys we follow , I guidelines you follow . I think that trace is absolutely essential and not out , and even outside the names that the things that I mentioned before of how coming together and assistance is very powerful keeping you on track . Um , needing god , needing people to pray for you , worship , giving to god what , uh , what he's given to us , it offering is very much important and very much crapped on , because I was listening to Ben Shapiro on the Breakfast Club today and he said something that I knew but never really thought about .

Speaker 1

It's just , you know , when they talk about giving money to the government and taxes and things like that to one entity and they're not actually putting the money to your causes . Charlemagne and Ben Shapiro agreed on that . That's kind of why church is important , because you give it to the one entity that you actually believe in and they're going to give it to others who can help . Need a cause , oh shit .

Speaker 2

I think we did it . Yeah , my storage is full .

Speaker 1

Okay , all right . Well , this is two for the culture . Oh shit , yeah .

Speaker 2

Is it okay ? Oh no , it is what it is . I'll try it again , All right .

Speaker 3

Well , no worries this is two for the culture . We'll be back . Yeah , we'll be back . Love y'all .