Two for the Culture

The Lines We Draw: Exploring Trust and Betrayal

• Season 1 • Episode 25

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We explore the complex boundaries of forgiveness and trust in relationships while examining whether people can truly change after betrayal or deception.

• Can someone truly change their behavior after cheating or is it just better control?
• Distinguishing between accidental infidelity and deliberate, premeditated cheating
• Why we might forgive physical betrayal more easily than financial betrayal
• The psychology behind stealing luxury items versus necessities
• Gender differences in handling pressure and leadership roles
• Parenting approaches that balance discipline with incentives
• The distinction between spirituality and religion - can they exist separately?
• How our upbringing influences our capacity for forgiveness and boundary-setting

We'll be back next week with another episode. Follow us on social media @TwoForTheCulture and leave us your thoughts on today's discussion.


Welcome Back and Setup

Speaker 1

And we are back with another episode of Two for the Culture. I'm Justin Devante. I'm Steven.

Speaker 2

Ray.

Speaker 1

Yes sir, and we are back how?

Speaker 2

you doing? Doing well, doing well. I feel like we've been setting up for the past hour. We didn't say a word to each other.

Speaker 1

I just had to work on a couple of things real quick, really. Just for Fantasy League I had to set up the payments and stuff because I'm the commissioner, uh, so yeah, so I just have to set up payments and just make sure everybody got it, so it can be off my back you know, I still don't even know what a parlay is okay, so that's just uh, it's, I can explain to you very easily yeah so you just have one bet and you combine it with another bet, okay, and so that's a parlay.

Speaker 1

So for, for example, say for basketball terms, you can bet LeBron James scores over 30 points, and so that's one bet. And then you would say LeBron James scores or not scores, gets 11 rebounds, and so that's another bet and you combine it and those two bets into one and that if they.

Speaker 1

If he does both of those things, that increases a higher payment because those odds are more more riskier on one bet than if you do it separately, but the odds of you winning it are less likely because you have to win both bets to win at the same time?

Speaker 2

yeah, exactly, so what if you just win?

Speaker 1

one, then you, you then you lose your money. Damn yeah, but if you win both, you make more money than if you were to do them separately got you all right, so football just started exactly, yep, okay, yeah, I did see tate post something about the broncos yeah, yeah, yeah. So they, they won. They didn't look very good doing it. Who?

Speaker 2

Russell Wilson play for.

Speaker 1

He plays for the New York Giants. That's what made you ask about Russell.

Speaker 2

I just thought he still played for them.

Speaker 1

For the Broncos. Yeah, that's not too far off, even though he played for another team last year.

Speaker 2

Two years ago. Yeah, exactly, I ain't too far off, even though he played for another team last year. Okay, so it was like two years ago. Yeah, exactly, all right, yeah.

Speaker 3

I ain't too far off.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you ain't, but I think we do have a good discussion on today.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I hate to skip past our weekends, but I feel like it wasn't much going on, I ain't doing shit, Same work and driving Same house same house.

Speaker 1

Worked yeah, worked regular day job and then drove afterwards yeah, so I have. I think it was things that we brushed up on lightly that I want to go a little bit in depth on. Yeah, so I think it will be a really, really fun discussion for us All. Right, so do you feel like somebody can truly change? By the way, these are questions. That's going to lead me into where I really want to go Something else, okay. Do you feel like somebody can truly change? Yes?

Speaker 2

I feel like somebody can have more control. Okay, if that makes sense. Understood, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1

It's a very vague answer.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Excuse me question.

Speaker 1

Uh-huh, and I feel like that one is a yes for me. Just because we're going to grow and mature, we're going to be different people. We can change, for the better or worse. Yeah, you're not going to be the same person. You are at 18. You're just going to be more traumatized, okay. So do you agree?

Speaker 2

yes, yes, yeah, when you put time into the equation okay.

Can People Truly Change?

Speaker 1

So my next point is do you, can you forgive somebody who cheats? Ultimately, this, is it really a more discussion, uh, on change and forgiveness and understanding? What are our limits in between that? Okay, so I just wanted to kind of set the foundation. All right, can you forgive somebody who cheats? Uh, yes okay uh-huh, okay, so I think we both agree that there's boundaries on that, right yeah?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So if multiple partners like if you cheat on me twice, that's clearly different.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it's not a one and done. Yeah, there is just a possibility of me forgiving that. I think, I think I believe. So yeah, I've done it before, okay.

Speaker 1

So if she was to cheat again, what if it happened two years later? I can't do that.

Speaker 2

Because then what it was going to happen two or four years later after that, okay.

Speaker 1

That's a big boundary it's not like you.

Speaker 2

You know, stepped on my foot or some shit. Like you, you, another man was inside you.

Speaker 1

Yeah okay, twice. I understand. I'm glad you brought up that point, even though that's an obvious one yeah yeah, so it also. So it depends on how many times it happens, and so, but you, we both agree.

Speaker 2

I think there's a yeah, there's there. There's some type of, I believe. So I don't know, I've never been with a woman for a long time after someone cheated on me. So I don't have the experience of a woman cheated on me and then I was with her for like four years after. So I don't have the experience of a woman cheated on me and then I was with her for like four years after that. I don't have that experience. So I'm just going off of a hypothetical. I think there is a world where that could possibly be true. I mean, I'm giving, I'm giving the situation grace, because I've never been in it and I don't know what I would do if I was in it, but I think it's a possibility, okay.

Speaker 1

So I can set up some hypotheticals for you.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

The first one was a deliberate act Like I am going to have sexual expression.

Speaker 2

I can't do that Okay.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I couldn't do that. So what are some of the limits to where you can?

Speaker 2

forget. Then If it's like a situation of Again, I haven't been in these situations so I could see me. That's too blatant, that's way too blatant. That's way too blatant. That's like, if I read the messages, daddy, I'm on the way, dog, like I got to move on from that. That's way too like you're invested, you know, in the cheating. I don't think I can that, I don't think I could just like forgive, like that.

Speaker 2

But, if there's a situation of the common shit. You hear you at a party, boom, everybody drinking. Now you're drunk, now some one thing that you woke up you don't even remember the night, and then now you cheated on me. You know that sucks, but like I can deal with that way, more than how you going to hit this pussy when I get there. You know what I'm saying. Like I don't, I don't, I can't, I can't get over that one.

Speaker 1

Uh, yeah, yeah, I hear you that's. That's definitely a lot. It's very tough to yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah and yeah, and I'm I'm kind of with you, yeah. So do you think that person who deliberately act about what you said, like giving the hey daddy text while in a relationship, can that person change from that? I believe so if they're 30 years old so when did they do? It oh, um. No, I'm saying they're 30 year old and they cheated oh, oh, you're saying yeah.

Speaker 1

Like I'm not even saying like age, why, well, I did put an age on it, but in terms of like 10 years, now they're 40. I'm saying, in the next couple of years, do you? See that person changing yeah From that? I think it's possible.

Speaker 2

Ok, I think it's possible. It just depends on it depends on them. You know, that's that's blatant, though. So like that makes me feel like you're far too gone into that reality, versus like you just like slipped up. So that would take a lot. I I don't know if it would be a couple years, but I mean at the same time, I'm not sure. I I think I think things also depend on karma and consequences. So if, let's say, if me and her were married or some shit, and I'm paying for your business and this and that and you do that and I just pull everything out, now you're you're, your life is fucked, you might learn from that a little bit more, you know. But if nothing happened to you and you just you know, we just broke up and you get to do whatever, I don't see people changing like that. So I, I think that's a case-by-case basis of that I understand.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I, I can see where you're coming from yeah, would you.

Speaker 2

What do you think?

Speaker 1

um, that it'll be hard for me to it. So ultimately, agree about consequences it. When you have consequences, I mean like yeah, you go into prison yeah yeah, there's gonna be people who's like, bro, I ain't never coming back. And there's gonna be some people like once I get back out of there, I'm going 10 times harder. Yeah yeah, so I understand exactly what you mean.

Speaker 2

I saw a post. I saw a post, but this shit was like last month. It's this one influencer and he's in jail and he's one of them niggas with phones in jail. And then that man tweeted. I mean, he posted on his story with a caption on it saying I'm going to just apologize now before I get out. Story with a caption on it saying I'm gonna just apologize now before I get out, and I'm just like dog, what are you doing, bro? You know, yeah, and it was funny because, like, uh, weeks before then his posts were you know, I'm reading the book, I'm reading the bible, I'm doing this that you know, we just got to be better people. And then one day I read that shit. I'm gonna just apologize now for when I get out, because it's up yeah, yeah, yeah, and that that's.

Speaker 1

That's wild to say yeah on a, you know, a public format saying, hey, I am not on a public port yeah, it's like saying I'm not even, I'm not, don't regret anything, anything yeah of what I did yeah, so he sounded like he should stay in there, but I don't know what. What he?

Speaker 2

did to get in there.

Speaker 1

It could have been like you know, and then he could be referring to somebody.

Forgiving Infidelity

Speaker 2

You know, like I'm going hard on these hoes, you know yeah, it could have been, yeah, but it doesn't sound like that, don't sound like it yeah, he's going back. Yeah, he's definitely going back, yeah, um but yeah, I just said that you, I agree with you. There are different type of people the ones who are like I can't wait to get out of here and just change my life. And then there's the other ones that's like I'm going to get that nigga, yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. So it's just hard for me to really, if you're that blatant, seeing you change in general, because I think consequences do matter, but I feel like breaking my heart is shit. Make you feel away like you, just like, hey, I don't care, you know that shit don't be doing that for them yeah, that's a character trait oh god, you don't feel bad on god, and so I'm with you to a certain degree it's like how? How do you reflect when you don't care? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

And nothing happens to you. A part of me feels like that's narcissism.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And that's deliberate work you got to do on yourself. It's not just a time thing to where hey, I'm rock bottom. Yeah, Rock bottom doesn't feel like it heals a narcissist.

Speaker 3

You got to want that in you yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so, and that's kind of where I'm at with this. So there's degrees of changing ones. If you're not self-reflecting, then I'm not. I'm not gonna be with you on that journey regardless yeah and definitely deliberate. It's like I've even I said last podcast, I'm so easy going when it comes to like situations of boundaries, like I feel like my boundary limit is fairly hot, consider to the average man. So I'm just wondering like why couldn't this be a conversation?

Speaker 3

yeah yeah.

Speaker 1

So if you're yeah, so that's kind of where I'm living in that world, like my boundaries are way too high and you went over that. How you do that right like like you. You're not good at this in relationships how you do that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah so okay.

Speaker 1

So now I feel like where we may agree is we talked about forgiveness and cheating and at one time, if you so happen to be drunk, so what if she so happened to be drunk with one of your best friends?

Speaker 2

I ain't forgiving that shit. Fuck both of them.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but it was just they were drunk and they didn't remember and something happened.

Speaker 2

Nah, nah, nah, hell, no, what I remember I remember Damn remember, damn no, it was this one time one of my homies. He called one of the girls I was talking to fine and I was even. If she is fine or pretty or whatever, it's just like why you do that shit. You know like you.

Speaker 1

You know the side eyes there um, what if he hit you with the?

Speaker 2

with all due respect, with that manner, like without due respect. Your girlfriend is fine for some reason.

Speaker 1

That just did a lot okay I'm just saying like if he was the framework, like that yeah, or if he came to me or something I'm saying I heard from her. Oh, I didn't hear nothing from him. Okay, I thought you saying in conversation.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, no, like she came back to me, she was like you know well, I Can't say like the full thing, but like she just basically said that. Because it's gonna be very obvious of like, who I'm talking about, but um, or the time frame and stuff. But that did happen one time where I'm just like, okay, but people are different. You know, I'm saying people are different. I got friends who um like, if I break up with a girl, they'll keep like liking their posts, and I just like nigga, what are you doing?

Speaker 2

yeah yeah, but like at the same time, people aren't me right you know what I'm saying. So and I I know like I surround myself with people with like pure hearts and like that, so right.

Speaker 1

What if the post is not like her feeding the homeless? Like? What if it's like one of? Those is it like any posts, or is it like?

Speaker 2

any any okay, yeah, no, it ain't like it ain't like that. But, um, yeah, just like, some people just move a little differently. But yeah, if I found out that my girl and my homie got drunk and all that, that's gonna that'll, that'll, that'll mess me up a little bit, like in general, even after I'm done with them, like that's that, that'll probably scar me for real in different situations. Do you think that if that happened to you, like how would you, can you see yourself moving on from that situation? In terms of every time you have a girl now and who you bring her around, do you think you could ever just let that go?

Speaker 1

I try to treat everybody as their own individual, and so, yeah, I think so I wouldn't be like Brad. She can't come around. None of my homies, no more, ever.

Speaker 2

I'm saying so, you a keeper.

Speaker 1

I'm talking about any girl I bring around. I'm saying that too, oh, if she did that and it got to depend on the homie, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1

Like is it somebody that I know is? You know how close am I? You know like maybe this is a bad example, but my mom didn't treat us all the same. Maybe this is a bad example, but my mom didn't treat us all the same. So if my brother was struggling in a class that I'm in two years later, I'm in that class. She's not going to hold me to that same standard she held my brother to. So that's kind of how I live a little bit.

Speaker 1

It's like I'm not going to hold every friend to that same standard. It's going to be slightly different. So the the lady I'm probably going to break up with because, like, come on now but the yeah, it's like what's your own, what I don't know like friendship is harder. It's weird because friendships are, for me, harder to break that bond.

Speaker 2

If they both got drunk together, that's a decision on both of them. Yeah, I mean how you worded it. It seems like it's a decision on both of them to sit down and after a little bit of drinks you start to feel it. There's got to be somewhere in a guy's mind like, oh, this is like my homie's girl, like before it gets to the point of I don't know what I'm doing anymore, I I would feel like it's somewhere in there that it would. It would hit them.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, how did this person move? Because we all you know and I'm speaking on a different friend that may you're coming to your mind- but we may have a friend that have maybe talked to your ex, or like like I'm. You know I'm speaking on a different friend that may come to your mind, but you may have a friend that have maybe talked to your ex.

Speaker 3

And.

Speaker 1

I'm speaking on a different person than who you have in mind. Yeah, because I've had friends do that in general, so I know that hearing it from them on my side, so you feel like a little weird in a way, but it's like all right, I know him as a womanizer.

Speaker 2

Oh, uh-huh.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so I can see that happening from him and yeah, we won't be like blood anymore. Yeah, but I could be associative with you, yeah. But for her it's a no-no. Yeah, you gave up the ultimate. You know that's the ultimate loyalty test.

Speaker 2

I feel like it's more for the homie. They damn near on the same level.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm with you. That's why I'm saying it depends on the friend.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So that's just for me personally, yeah, so.

Speaker 2

If you get drunk with my girless and it's over. Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, anybody.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, yeah, what the hell no I think I uh, yeah, I take my pride on that, you know like that's something I thought that was like normal. Yeah, I mean yeah yeah, and and I like, and I'm sure I'm gonna be mad, but I'm just how I'm thinking it out in my in my mind that there's a way to come back, because I we've had similar.

Speaker 2

Oh, a way to come back.

Speaker 1

Because I've had similar situations like that, yeah, like to where one of my friends tried to holler at my girlfriend. And they were actually in a relationship and I ultimately forgave him for it, oh yeah. So, yeah, yeah, and our bond isn't as strong as it used to be. But I Our bond isn't as strong as it used to be, but I wish him well.

Speaker 2

I'll text him happy birthday.

Speaker 1

You know, check him up and really want him to do well.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

So, I agree with you, sir, yeah, but I think that, just like decency as a woman, you giving yourself up like that to my friend is like come on now, and this is supposed to be marriage, Like I'm not married to my friends.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

I'm not saying to God, you know, oh, for a lifetime, right, yeah, and I'm obligated to do, you know, for sick and poor. I don't have that with my friends, yeah, yeah. So that means that my degree is a lot higher of trust. Yeah, it goes a lot further if I'm making sense.

Speaker 2

Yeah, especially when you bring marriage into it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so at this point, why am I in a relationship if my goal isn't to be married with you? Oh, okay, wasn't why there's just too many willing people to, or there's too many single women out here to just start like clinging on somebody who's disloyal it just doesn't really make sense for me. Yeah, but friendships are. I feel like friendships are harder to find nowadays I think so when I look at other people.

Speaker 2

When I look at other people and they talk about how many friends they have and stuff, uh, um, and I compare it to myself, not necessarily why I'm speaking to them, but I do see that even what I have is pretty rare to like talk to somebody for like 20 plus years and have a group of them.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I don't really hear that too much it's also a little red flag to me too. What if you?

Speaker 2

if you can't do that, okay yeah you don't have like a, at least like one or two. That's to me that's like a red flag. Like you can't hold on to, everything at your friends fault you know, so, or your discernment of picking friends. Something's wrong there yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1

Okay. So this one is kind of it's still in a relationship, but I feel like we you're gonna have a different answer than than what you just had, how we was willing to forgive that one time.

Speaker 1

What about if your girlfriend steals from you and she doesn't? It's not like even the cheating. She didn't tell you, but you just found out that she stole from you like she took a hundred dollars out of your. She didn't tell you, but you just found out that she stole from you Like she took $100 out of your wallet and didn't tell you and had no intentions. It was like ill intent. I wanted that.

Speaker 2

Damn. No, I can't stay. Okay, I can't forget it, because that's the tip of the iceberg. That's what it looks like to me. There's a tip of the iceberg. That's what it looks like to me. There's a tip of the iceberg. How would you feel? Because I know you're like. You be working, working, you be Ubering this boom, da-da-da-da-da-da, and then a girl just stole.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean that's trifling Like, because it was really another reflection. Now it's like more simple than what it sounds, Because really the conversation is like how are we willing to forgive with having sex with another partner?

Speaker 2

but we're willing, we're, we have a straight line with stealing, like taking a hundred dollars.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, a one-time hundred dollars, right, right because I mean if yeah, even though that's one time like we can have a like, a um a thing to where it's like where I watched another movie or you know, technically you stole that. Uh-huh yeah so we have small lines of thievery that we can live within.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So them taking something from you is like a hard line.

Speaker 2

That's disrespect. Okay, yeah, that's like nigga, like that's, I don't know. That's a what's she like? Nigga, like that that's, I don't know.

Speaker 1

That's a what's she like. I used it to pay for bills.

Speaker 2

If you said it like that, I'm still hating. I use it to pay.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, that's the line they're going to go with anyway.

Speaker 2

What bill you know? They don't. Hmm, I don't know. Even if she did do that, I mean I could see us having a conversation or whatever, if it was like a bill thing.

Speaker 2

But I doubt it yeah, like if she just if she actually just stole that shit. That's a lot, like we were saying earlier, it's more like a character thing, like why would you do that? Because in relationships it feels like that best friend factor is like the foundation really, or like that's the shit that keeps it together for real, or one of the main pillars for real, um, or one of the main pillars. So you know, when you do that it just kind of like messes up a lot. You know like, yeah, like I've been in relationships where the best friend thing like I, I don't like even us like there's certain things you you probably know just second nature. I would just never do just off of the the you know, the friendship, so certain things when it comes to that, yeah, I don't see me like moving past that, because then it's like that's the found, literally the foundation, like love and all that is like smoking mirrors for real, but like actually trusting your person. That's what holds the foundation together. So I doubt it okay.

Speaker 1

So what if she stole a Chanel bag from the store? So it's not directly you, it's not me, but she's, she stole from the store yeah, baby girl, why you do that?

Speaker 2

why Because.

Speaker 1

I wanted it Because I wanted it.

Speaker 2

And nobody was looking. I would tell her you got to stop doing that. I would tell her you got to stop doing that or I can't be with you. But like, yeah, to me that that I don't know. If you keep doing that, then yeah, I can't be with you, because then I'm going to be messed up out here. I'm going to be walking out the store with you and all of a sudden, Say there's no consequences ever to her stealing, she just likes to do it.

Speaker 3

I can't do it Because my karma is great, yeah, so.

Speaker 2

I can't be around people that will mess up my karma is great, yeah. So like I can't, I can't. I can't be around people that are like mess up my karma, even though you know like if you do that you get away with I don't know how you doing it. You should stop. I had family members who used to steal and stuff all the time never got caught. I'm like you're not really made for jail. Like you should stop, you know. But that don't mean I'm gonna stop picking up.

Speaker 2

They call or whatever okay, yeah, yeah yeah, but like no, I can't, I can't, and I'm a woman that I'm around all the time. I don't want that karma on me, that's just sliding off on me. Nah, I believe in that shit.

Speaker 1

Okay, I got you, so what? So we're willing to forgive on others. It's just the multiple actions. So it's like, hey, I can, you can do it one time, and but that's it that's a forgivable offense the oh yeah, the chanel bag. Yeah, that's crazy um.

Speaker 2

First of all, how are you that good? But um yeah, I'm not gonna lie. She said she stole the chanel bag like I would in the back. I wouldn't say it, but there would be a little bit of respect there, like how did you do that? Oh, okay, you know you got to stop, but like that was some nice shit, how did you do that? Camera's on, but yeah, no, I don't see myself. I can't. Yeah, bro, like, spiritually, like I cannot I worked so hard to get to this point Like I cannot, like ask somebody else like mess that up, yeah.

Speaker 2

Like I feel like my karma is just really good. So yeah, I can't have anything messing that shit up. Understood.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

What would you feel like if they just came back with a Gucci bag and then, yeah, we just straight up with you.

Speaker 1

Yeah, like, yeah, I stole it it.

Speaker 1

I'm not gonna like it at all yeah I'm it's, it's gonna play in the back of my mind and I'm gonna um, not I, I. I think that breaking up like I can't believe you that it's over, I don't see me leaning that heavy on it. But my mind goes a little bit different. So I'm going to be like a Gucci bag. I deliberately chose a high value bag on purpose, because stealing groceries is one thing to eat. So if you're doing that, or you're like I needed socks and I didn't have the money to pay for socks, or or something like that, I can understand and grasp my head around like you would. If you had the means, you wouldn't have did that thing right, right right but you don't need a high value bag.

Speaker 2

So that tells me where your mind is at what if she said, yeah, I bought it, but I was going to sell it. I already have it on Facebook Marketplace and I just wanted to pay our rent.

Speaker 1

Why are you with my broke ass? Nah, I'm just playing. I can respect that more, but let me do the gritty stuff yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and not to say that I would. I would you know i'ma lean on my family yeah everybody pitching 75, your boy, yeah, don't got it, you know, and I and that not to kind of get us off. You know, you know a wild term, but I would hate doing that hurts more than anything.

Speaker 1

You know like asking people for money. I need your assistance. Yeah, with a bill or something that hurts. That's a lot to do. Yeah, on my side. So if I'm doing that, I need it.

Speaker 3

Uh-huh.

Speaker 1

And maybe less so on my mom, but in terms of like asking everybody to pitch in to help me pay for something yeah yeah, that's um, that's but she knows, she know that, she know you ain't gonna do it.

Speaker 1

That's why she came back with the Gucci bag no, I will do it if I have to you know, yeah, so and I got, and this is also why having family around you is important, like even having a church family. There's times to where I where I had to ask on behalf of another person for this thing, because they needed help and the church not to say too much, but the church assisted in that for them. She did casually go, but they assisted with her paying that bill.

Speaker 1

It was significant, like $400. Yeah, so coming together and doing something and having a foundation of people that can willing to help and pitch in means a lot, yeah, yeah. So not to get off on a tangent, but uh, back to the high value bag. I, yeah, so I chose a high value bag because it really is a mindset thing. Is that you're really that? It's because a bag is a class, this thing for me, it says hey, I am more important because I carry this thing yeah because if it's fashionable, why don't you wear the knockoff like?

Speaker 1

it's the exact same thing if it was how it looks the aesthetic of it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, but it's like I got a fucking Gucci, yeah, yeah exactly Now.

Speaker 1

That changes everything on your mentality and you're willing to take for that. Then it tells me kind of who you are as a person a little bit. Maybe that's a little bit deeper than you know the normal person.

Speaker 2

I mean, that's the reality of the situation for sure, because why well, I was about to say why do people be got the term? But when everybody goes into the Gucci store and grabs everything, it's a word for it.

Speaker 1

But um but that's, that's that's not true, they, they getting it to sell it and stuff like that. I don't think so I think they're going to sell some of that stuff.

Speaker 1

But, it's really for them. Yeah, I think that people who are thieves will get it to sell. Looting oh that word. People who steal 100 iPhones from Apple yeah, they're probably selling it to a certain degree, but if 100 people are running into the Gucci store, a small fraction of them are going to be selling it online. You think a small fraction? I think a small fraction, for sure. I think it's more. I think it's just a high value classism.

Speaker 1

When people be looting the Gucci stores, they don't be going to the men's section like that and you know why I feel that way is that there is so much value to a hardware store if people don't. And tools are very easy to sell, very easy to pawn people don't go into the hardware store stealing stuff and they don't get 395 for this pair of scissors, or or a wrench. What are you talking about? No, there's I'm saying there's a lot of high value items at the hardware store where you gonna sell that the same place as you still what are you?

Speaker 1

selling ebay. I'm, I'm, I'm saying those things. Of course it's not gonna. You can get a ten thousand dollar bag and you can sell that easily, okay, I, I agree, so what?

Speaker 2

give me an item like what, what is, what is a high price item at the at the home depot that they gonna get at home depot this, this, this doesn't know, but I'm waiting on the answer.

Speaker 1

It's a thousand dollars worth of equipment, but I'm just saying, okay, they don't. They're not apples to apples, my guy, but what?

Speaker 1

I was getting at, there's more lows. There's different type of hardware stores that you could go and take from, versus the one Gucci store in your state. So that's what I'm saying. There's the frequency of getting those tools that you can probably do a lot more with. I know it's not apples to apples, but I'm just saying, yeah, you'll see a lot more things being stolen and resold. If that was just simply the the issue, it's really they're going to wear this item and show it off.

Speaker 2

I just don't hear about people looting stores like that and like the men's section is cleared out at the gucci store. I don't ever hear that they're taking.

Speaker 1

Whatever They'll take a scarf. You know what?

Speaker 2

I mean, or maybe you know, they are gifting their women with it. That's probably true a little bit.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I do believe that there's some percentage of it is being gifted, or worn or used and I think that's majority of the cases. You know, you know, keep in mind.

Speaker 1

I don't know looters, right, I was just going to say speculation yeah but for the most part, how I see people act is most likely they're taking the thing because it makes them feel good, like the, the the high value item. Yeah, okay, so, and but that's to my point is if, if that's the thing you're taking and you don't need the thing, then that tells me where your head is at and it's hard for me to respect it. Yeah, yeah, because now that carries into different ways and now I think, if you have that type of mindset, I can rebuild for real, because you're always going to want for the things I don't care for or desire, or spend your money in places where, like, you're spending money to make feel powerful around other people in a sense yeah, and it's like that's just not what's important.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so I was like, how can we grow like I mean, unless I, you know, hit a lick in the lottery to where all these things don't matter? How can like realistically, right now these things don't matter.

Speaker 2

How can like realistically?

Speaker 1

or somebody just won, damn, two people actually I don't think I'll ever do it, maybe maybe one day. Lottery uh, I've did it a couple times, not that I felt excited about winning, it was because my granny wanted me to get her a lot of tickets, so I bought me one too, right so that's my experience.

Speaker 2

I used to go to Arkansas every it was damn near like every Saturday at some point with my dad and I had his nasty as McDonald's coffee before I started drinking coffee myself and we would go there and he never won. And I'm just like I'm not playing this dumb ass game.

Gender and Leadership Under Pressure

Speaker 1

It, it is, and it kind of preys on your excitement a little bit too. When I do the scratch-off, I'll get the scratch-off. The insurance company, every birthday, will send me a scratch-off ticket. I do get excited. All I have to do is one more hit 5,000.

Speaker 2

Seven damn Smaller ones. I know what you're talking about, that shit like Willy Wonka, bro. That's crazy, though, that the people who actually win that oh it's nine times out of ten. They blow that off of cocaine and in las vegas sounds lit sounds lit got good memories very.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think I saw a video one dude. He was like I don't regret it, like I think I remember seeing that that's that's the guy that I'm talking about. Yeah, he cocaine and whores in las vegas. Yeah, man, he was just like man a great time he was working at like uh, he was either like driving buses or a garbage truck guy.

Speaker 3

There's a better way of saying it yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, a janitorial engineer. Yeah, sanitation worker yeah, there you go, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm glad he didn't kill himself, because that's hard to go back to.

Speaker 2

God, I remember losing a bunch of money one time. Yeah Fuck, oh my God, oh my God. I remember that I was up up, Super up. I feel like about anything. And then, when that shit was gone, dog. I was like I see why people be killing themselves. I see it. This is alright.

Speaker 1

What would you have did differently?

Speaker 2

Not. Well, I didn't blow the money.

Speaker 1

You didn't.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I didn't blow the money.

Speaker 2

I just didn't Set up things to make the money multiply right uh, yeah, I didn't invest and I was literally doing things that I always wanted to do and to be so like the. When it came to kaya, my daughter, like I was here all the time. We started like going to better hotels, you know, better experiences, the relationship I was in, we was going out often I I was spending the money on like not necessarily me, but like the people around me and just being like the guy that I always wanted to be.

Speaker 1

Yeah and that whole start going down and down and down yeah, I'm like how we I go to other hotel do you regret telling your significant other at the time that you had that money?

Speaker 2

uh, no, no, cuz that's what is. What is that?

Speaker 1

I don't even want to be in a relationship like that because do you feel like they asked for things a little bit more? No, she didn't. No, she didn't ask.

Speaker 2

I was just being the guy, like you didn't have to ask a question on, um, uh, uh, certain things you know, like if, uh, you're budgeting with your woman or are you budgeting yourself on things that you want to do, what she wants to do with the family, wants to do your family, her family, you know, it just was just like, yeah, sure, cool, let's do it done. I just wanted to be that. I always saw myself as that person, so when I had it, I was just being that person and, yeah, the money ran out. And then I, man, the money ran out and I lost the job that shit was man.

Speaker 2

I was like I get it. I get it, man, if I had a couple kids at that time frame. We had a house, a home. Oh my god, like man, I see, I see why these be like I'm checking. Yeah, you know what I'm done.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, so yeah I got a question for you. What's?

Speaker 2

that. So All right. So in terms of going off of that, I guess I'll come back to that. So, in terms of my question is, in terms of leadership roles like presidency, government role, big, big, big roles that have a lot of pressure in it, who do you think can hold that pressure more, a man or a woman, and why? And then I'm going to talk after that Okay.

Speaker 1

Who can handle that pressure more? You know, it's easy for me to say man.

Speaker 2

Yeah right.

Speaker 1

I'm leaning towards what I've seen and what I've known you know what I mean. So I've seen later positions and so I've seen that more. So my only understanding is men, but so but I've never seen a woman and like an executive leadership to where it's like, hey, we gotta lean on this person and she gonna take us through there yeah, right, like, yeah, like the president, some shit yeah yeah and uh.

Speaker 1

so I necessarily haven't seen a situation like that to where I could truly know for real, but I think that I almost want to say that it's close to being somewhat both, just because there's, you know, when you ask that question I lean to the strongest women I know. And how would they handle them? So, like, my grandmother is very, very strong and she tends to handle things way like can take emotions of herself out of it better than some of the men I knew. So I look on people like that and say I think that she could hold her composure, but I don't know. It's a different level of stress and it's a different level of getting it. And then I also want to leave where another woman put their body on the line and I've seen that too to where a man's getting his ass beat and then her woman tries to step in and help. She's putting her body on the line.

Speaker 3

No, I ain't talking about that.

Speaker 1

No, I'm just saying I'm talking about body on the line, like a woman's willing to sacrifice herself in order to help in a situation. That's why I'm so. I'm just trying to answer the question.

Speaker 2

I guess you do have to think sort of like that In those big, big, big.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm just saying like Are you willing to go, sacrifice yourself?

Speaker 3

Uh huh.

Speaker 1

Yeah, cause that's In those positions. That's kind of what it is, um, and so If you got the know, how you got the strength, then you know it's. I, you know there's a lot of men that's gonna crack. Of course there's going to be a lot of women that's going to crack as well. So and that's you know, that's only for the few.

Speaker 1

And I want to lean towards both, but I'm gonna give it to a man just because I've seen it too many, too many more times than that um, I think, I think it's um trendy or like, kind of easier to say that too, like for me.

Speaker 2

But I was on instagram one day and I was scrolling and it was this guy. He asked somebody that question and they said a man basically um, they're more, uh, adapt. This is what he said. They're more adept to deal with stress and things like that.

Speaker 2

And then the guy, he had a response to it and he said that you know, in a woman's body, like in their spine, there's something there that allows them to handle stress actually more than men because of the whole birth factor and, um, things that kind of like relate to that in their body. And then he followed it up with Just think about it, who has, who has a significantly Higher amount of suicide rates? And that's like men. And I thought about, I was like, oh shit, that's literally, that's literally factual information Of men not handling pressure well over women and it's like a statistic of niggas just checking out because they can't handle the shit. Yeah, there might be more pressure on a man, but yeah, I, I don't know, but it was. It was very interesting.

Speaker 1

The suicide rate is I is. I feel what he's saying, but I think that's a little bit skewed, because men check out differently than women like we're less likely to swallow a bunch of pills in an attempt to kill ourselves yeah, we do we protect the bullet to the head, we do the jump off a building, we do the thing that's actually going to kill us versus the chances of survival so we just real niggas, I'm just saying like I mean, you know somebody who tried to, you know up themselves and things like that most yeah yeah, so we know that suicide attempts.

Speaker 1

Uh, we know women that attempted suicide. Yeah, I don't know any man actually yeah.

Speaker 2

I think it's usually more often yeah than not. I've heard about women at some point trying to do that maybe you are kind of right, because it's just like you know what I'm going to do it, and that could be the difference but the pills and the, it's very interesting and then it's.

Speaker 1

I think that what keeps a man typically is like societal, like women are more social butterflies, if we're talking about um, you know, offering themselves like the people around you exactly.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah it's more.

Speaker 1

It's more, it's harder to uh. A woman's going to be more accepted than a man and for whatever reasons, whether men macho humano, you perceive yourself a person as a threat more than a woman would you know?

Speaker 1

so there's a good way, but I don't want to stay on attention on that as more as, uh, leaning towards adapting with stress Cause, like I said, I go to my grandmother and she's just built different. So I think that and I think she can handle things far superior than a lot of these guys. I mean, she grew up in a different time.

Speaker 3

She was actually homeless.

Speaker 1

Like you know, somebody trying to touch her and she left her. She left that house to be homeless.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and living on the street for her.

Speaker 1

So you're just going to be built different different. You're gonna go through any means to get what you need. Yeah, yeah you. She doesn't fold easily right literally easy thing. I panic, she don't even concern, you know so it's just levels to this, yeah.

Speaker 1

So that's why I said I was like I feel like it could be evenly matched, but I I just seen it more. So if I'm putting my money where my mouth is, it's going to be on the man, but it's not going to surprise me like wow, you know, like I can't believe she held her own. I may be shocked depending on the person, but I've seen just women like really stand tall Facts, yeah.

Speaker 2

So yeah, that's a very interesting, um, very, very interesting uh point that you're saying. Yeah, I do get that as well. When it comes to the community thing, that is, that is a little different, that is a little different, yeah and uh, and then yeah, so, and also it, it's going to be different.

Speaker 1

So I'm going to say that, more times than not, a man's going to take that leadership role, but I think that women can. Ultimately, just because how, even your daughter do you call her princess? You know what I mean, like maybe not the term itself, but you treating her in that way. You're delicate, you're soft with her yeah, you're gonna tell her she's beautiful. You're gonna give them all those positive affirmations my grandmother. From my understanding she, really, even though I, she is beautiful, um, she didn't come with the environment oh, yeah, so how?

Speaker 1

she was treated is going to be differently.

Speaker 2

And I'm not really just saying she was beautiful.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's different. She's like a quarter Indian and I see her old pictures next to her daughters in prom. I'm not even kidding, you couldn't tell the difference of who was the daughter.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, look at you, I was like you was a sex symbol back in the day, you know, yeah, so, um, so, uh, so it's different how we raise our we raise our women just to be soft with yeah not to put a lot on them so it was interesting. Uh, you know, I was listening to like a like the red pill, uh side of things and for all, what does?

Speaker 2

it mean like, uh, it's, it's a matrix.

Speaker 1

You take the blue pill, you like the red pill. Uh side of things and for all. What does it mean? Like, uh, it's, it's a matrix. You take the blue pill, you take the red pill. That means you're out, you're awoke yeah, so they use that as a as a term to where like you understand of life.

Speaker 1

You know, you kind of have your eyes wide open. You understand it for fully for what it is, I think if I, yeah, so, but it was he did. Um, I always try to lean into like the fringes of what people have to say, because there can be some truth to what they're saying. And so when, uh, in germany there would be these guys this is like in the world war ii area era they would intentionally scar themselves because that shows hardness. Yeah, like yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Or some people even in the UFC. They'll intentionally mess up their ears to get that cauliflower ear. You know that cauliflower?

Speaker 2

ear, yeah, yeah, do that On purpose.

Speaker 1

Yeah, because it's a sign of toughness.

Speaker 2

I mean, I would be a little bit more intimidated.

Speaker 3

Yeah, exactly, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1

Exactly, he's, exactly, yeah, exactly he's been through some things. But if a woman has the scars that's more trauma and she's been through things, so she's less value.

Speaker 2

Where a man values himself higher if he's in battle yeah, so yeah, yeah, so yeah, like the masculine energy, I guess, yeah, yeah yeah, so.

Speaker 1

So I think it's. It's a type of like, and maybe it's more psychological than anything it's like men are more bred for this, more than women have. Because you're most as a father, I know I'm going to be soft with my daughter give her more love than you know.

Speaker 2

Like bro, stop crying yeah, oh god, I was just talking about just yesterday with somebody and I was just like man, I feel like I'm going to be different, like it's not going to be the same, which is like natural. But, um, I I really wonder sometimes how different the interaction would be with who I am to my son than who I am to my daughter. They might experience two totally different me's and I thought about that one day.

Speaker 2

I was like damn because, like when I was growing up, my mom, me and my mom, it was like the best ever, like she was so fun all the time and with my dad we weren't like too close for real, like when I was growing up and when I look at, uh, I mean he was still cool, but like when I look at how I am with kaya, it's just like all I want to do is make her like kind of what you're saying, like make her laugh, enjoy herself, enjoy life.

Speaker 2

I'm gonna be that to an extent with my son, but like, if he's crying and shit like dog, you know what I'm saying, like I would be, I would be way more. I don't have all the answers to it cause I don't have a son, but, um, I know things would definitely be different and it would not be this Barbie house upbringing, you know, vibe. So I think when I was younger uh, this is just random, but when I was younger, uh, I used to play with my sister a lot because we like we were really close. Uh, we were closer than what we are now at one point and I would play with her uh a lot with like her dolls and and I and I think my dad, he was getting worried or some shit. So he like I think he maybe stopped playing with the dolls or he like trying to like interchange the toys out, just so I wouldn't go into the route of whatever.

Speaker 1

Nah, give me that barber yeah.

Speaker 2

Things are just different. Things are just the way different yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, no, no, I understood that and yeah, and I I I understood probably where your dad was probably coming from, like, hey, I need to probably do a little bit yeah because he may think this is normal uh-huh or whatever I don't know, would I do that? Maybe, yeah, I mean, if he, if he playing with a bunch of peak things like was you choosing the barbie over the race car? I don't remember. Okay, yeah, but I had a lot of.

Speaker 2

I had a lot of a lot of other toys, yeah, yeah. So I don't think I would just be like, I don't think I would just be like overly like that, but I would. If I saw that, I would try to test it out a little bit and I would, like you know, put the dinosaur on the table just see what you see if he you know, no, daddy, I want her.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, no, shout out, shout out, shout out, shout out, shout out. But, um, okay, yeah, no, no, no, no it. I've just seen people grow to a point. I I had this guy, he's a mentor, or was basically a mentor of mine. Uh, um, and you know about, I ain't gonna say it like on here, but I came into the crib one day with a pink hoodie. He said take that off I was like what like it's, it's cool. I ain't seen that pink hoodie since he had to have.

Speaker 3

Took that shit while I was not looking at through that bitch away yeah like that over you know these are older, yeah, yeah, but uh well, he don't you know care my other best friends dad my other best friend's dad. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah you need to take that off.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, yeah I was like, damn man, it's kind of chilly in here.

Speaker 2

I got you yeah and I ain't never see that shit again and I think he had, he had to have done so well, distracting me or something, because I it was like a week past and I didn't remember where I put it and I just put two or two together like they might do that. But you know there are some people that that that again, like the older generation, the more you go back I'm sure it just gets like more and more strict with stuff like that. So, yeah, my son, if I see him playing with dolls, I I wouldn't like smack his hand no but I would.

Speaker 2

I would try to. You know you want to go to the arcade.

Speaker 1

Right, I'm with you. I don't like to discipline physically, but I know that sometimes it's necessary.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I feel like I'll be tough but fair. Like if what I was telling my cousin my little cousin when he was staying with us for a little, if what I was telling my cousin my little cousin when he was staying with us for a little bit, I was like, hey, you do the right things, you have fun. This can be the easiest way, easiest thing for you or the hardest thing for it. That's literally your choice mm-hmm you know?

Speaker 1

hey, just keep up with me, you know, do you got? You know not necessarily bedtime, but be home at a certain time. Let me know what's going on. Um, make sure you're doing your work and you get. You're going to get my easy money. Just, I'm just giving you like little assignments so I can give you money, like take out the trash like it's 20 bucks a week.

Speaker 1

Then you get 20 bucks a week from my grandmother, that's 40. That's, that's a good, that's good weekly for uh, somebody who was in middle school at the time, or maybe in, I think it was middle school, but uh, yeah, until you don't, then I was working them to death, like literally working out yeah yeah, to where he's like. He can't even make it up the stairs. He just kind of passed out on the floor.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I told you, yeah.

Speaker 1

So I and same thing for my nephews like, hey, I want you to have fun, we're gonna. You're gonna come home, you're gonna have be at the y swim, do what you want to play basketball, we're gonna work out a little bit and then, um, you got your work and then after that you do what you want until it's bedtime.

Speaker 1

Yeah and then so we, I'm willing to try to create things. There's money if you do what you want until it's bedtime. Yeah, so I'm one to try to create things. There's money. If you do well, you get good grades, then you get this. If you don't, you get money to take away from you. So there's a game that we play. So what I told them was you got to make this difficult for me. Giving you grace and having fun is more difficult for me, because I don't really have that time to. But when you don't do the right things, oh, that's easy, just go to your room.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Oh, I don't have to pay you. That's money I keep. Right, I win, I literally win when you don't do well. So you doing this, it doesn't hurt me at all because I ultimately get to keep that time. I don't have to spend. I don't have to spend cause you're in trouble or I don't have to. I keep my money. I get to do what I want not what you want.

Speaker 1

So you're supposed to make this difficult for me, and I'm glad I want to see that happen. I want you to make it difficult for me. I want to like dang, I gotta work some more to make sure I gotta pay my nephew for his age yeah yeah, so and I want to see that for you.

Speaker 1

But when, when you make it easy, I'm not gonna feel bad. Yeah, I keep it off, yeah, and um, I framed it like, and they understood it, not to say that. You know, ultimately they they did well on their own, but you know, still I wanted to always have the incentives and of course it's going to fluctuate, sometimes like hey, I don't gotta pay much, or something like dang, I really gotta go out of pocket, um, so yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2

Some um tough, but yeah, is that tough.

Speaker 1

I mean yeah, I mean it's, it's well I'm just saying tough in terms of the working out. That working out is tough. Now you're having a strict environment of what you can do. I'm using loose examples Not to. I didn't necessarily need to beat on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, if it never came to that, then there's. You know what I mean. You shouldn't even be here, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean like at a certain age. Why am I whooping you for? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, Like you got to be doing something drastic for me to have to put hands and feet on you for yeah.

Parenting and Discipline Approaches

Speaker 1

So when I say hands and feet, yeah, yeah, yeah, Because I know what the drastic is and I know what the level is.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Like bro, why are you stealing, breaking into cars, taking a guy?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's very drastic. That's penalized, and if you're bringing drama to a house, you got to go. You can't be here.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so that's where I'm just going to kick you out and go back to where your mom and dad is. Yeah, so it's really going to be that.

Speaker 2

I mean it's fair.

Speaker 1

Yeah, this has similarly happened. It's not like I'm just speaking out of turn. I was like, no, the next thing that happened, if this is the route he's going, then he is going to bring this back to our house. You're too old for this.

Speaker 2

I don't have the time for this. Yeah, yeah so you gotta be gone? No, definitely makes sense the difference between religion and spirituality. Do you think that one can exist without the other?

Speaker 1

spirituality and religion they can like okay spirituality? I guess yes. They can't like okay Spirituality? I guess yes.

Speaker 2

And you really have to get the meaning on it, it's not really a mean it's just like.

Speaker 1

So I'm trying not to, I'm trying to use the proper words for it, but it's going to sound insulting, insulting a little bit. I don't really respect spirituality like that. Uh um, because and no disrespect, but spirituality is saying I believe there's a God and I know he's real, but I'm not putting the work in to further what he wants for me and that's bringing more people to God, that's actually celebrating him going to church and I feel like it's just. I think it's just kind of like cop out.

Speaker 2

How can you not have that?

Speaker 1

Or do you just think like Because if you believe in God and you believe the Bible is real. They talk about celebrating and worship. Yeah, and I don't see when you talk about spirituality, I don't see the worship portion. I don't see For real.

Speaker 1

I don't see that you delivering more people to him. Yeah, so, and that's kind of where I land on that. On that, there's actually, you know, think, rules that shoot that needs to be followed, and I don't think that's spirituality, I think it's just easy. It's easy way to say, hey, I, I love god, I feel like I know that he's real, but I don't want to. Yeah, I lazily don't want to do do the things that's within the guidelines.

Speaker 2

I guess I don't like fully agree with what you said just because I knew you wouldn't.

Speaker 2

I get what you're saying, though I think it's more of a thing. I think it's more of a thing. I think it's more of a thing for people on that, um, like when you, when you're talking about that, about about religion in general, about, like you know, bringing people to God and stuff like that, I agree with that and I feel like that's definitely something that should be done. I do feel that it can be more of a thing for people in that religious world if we were to just separate the two and there wasn't like a blend or whatever. I do feel like there are more people on the religious side who take that part more seriously, because it seems like the more the people that are like spiritual are more like to themselves if that makes sense because spiritual is.

Speaker 1

I mean, I think there's levels to it, but they're just kind of like. When I hear, like I'm spiritual but I'm not religious, what does that ultimately mean literally? What does that say?

Speaker 2

well, if somebody were to say that, I would take it more so. Like, like religion is like this, this, this, like cut concrete, this is what it is. There's. There's no wiggle room around any of this. Like everything happened in here, which is a book it could be the Bible, the Quran, this, the death, whatever and it seems like when someone says it like that, it seems more like everything is just like cutthroat. This is exactly what it is, but I feel like that that uh phrase, what's the phrase again?

Speaker 2

I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious I feel like that phrase comes more from the evolution of these books in general and how like a lot of it has to do with man. Like there are certain books in the Bible that's not in there anymore. We'll never know fully what was like completely in there, and we just talk about one Bible we ain't talking about like other religions. So there's like a man-made portion to that and I feel like that's what they're saying more. So it's just like I believe in god.

Speaker 2

I believe in they could believe in everything that's in the bible yeah, I mean, but not necessarily, I don't know like there's a thought of not knowing okay and I maybe can help a little bit.

Speaker 1

So god didn't put a pen to paper and write the.

Speaker 1

Bible. So, yeah, all of it is constructed by man. So, yeah, yeah. So the Old Testament comes from the Torah, which is, you know, jewish and then Jesus. So in the Old Testament it talks about their coming back in the form of God coming back, and I'm going to try to oversimplify this God's going to come back. The Son of God talks about all that in the New Testament. Jesus is supposed to fulfill that Old Testament. That's why you have the New Testament, which we follow. The Old Testament is pretty much the Torah, which we follow. Um, so, uh, so the old testament is pretty much the torah, or what jews follow, because they don't believe jesus was the son of god so they feel like they're still going to be messiah that comes back.

Religion vs. Spirituality Debate

Speaker 1

So that's why they still follow the old testament, the new testament, which christians follow um and um. So that was put together. I forgot the name of it and sorry for blanking out, but that was put together by a group of men Getting all the historical facts and books together by the apostles and different sources, and there is other texts in which was left out because they couldn't properly be verified. So that was a collective of books. So, like Matthew, mark, luke and John, if you read them they're all accounts following Jesus. So you have a different letter from Matthew, mark and it gives it in that same history timeline. Just so because there are witnesses to verify, you need several witnesses to believe something matches up yeah exactly.

Speaker 1

Um, so so all of this coming from uh collectively in the form of a man, um, where was I going with that? Uh? So so now let's go back to that point of talking to uh about religion, or spiritual, not religious, it's like okay. So how I looked at is like I'm being led by a different force in who I identify as god, like spiritual like hey, I believe I have a feeling as God, like spiritual, like hey, I believe I have a feeling.

Speaker 1

I know I'm a good person, yeah, and why can't they be the same? Because you, I mean we. Because, because there's commands, there is a way to act, as guidelines that we follow, and that's what considers us Christian. Are you a believer of Christ? And that's like one of the foundations of being a Christian.

Speaker 1

So so that's kind of where you start, and if you feel like that, and then there's rules that you follow, not to say that we're all sinners, we're all going to act in sin, but to not try to make a commit to that guideline, it's like alright, well, you're spiritual, but you don't know the. But to not try to make a commit to that guideline is like all right, well, you're spiritual, but you don't know the guiding forces. It may feel right and you feel like you're a good person, but to somebody who believes in abortion versus who doesn't, you know, I feel like this is not a life, yada, yada, the science says this, and then that may feel right to you, but me, as a christian, I'm like nah, that ain't. Yeah, so there's guidelines of what we follow. You could be, you could be led by the devil and you not even know it because you feel spiritual, I feel this thing that could be a demon.

Speaker 1

You know, like you don't. You don't know because you're rationalizing your mind, because we are human. We may think we're being led properly and we may have this ultimate spirit around us that may, that makes us feel good or it feels like the right way to go, but you truly don't know that. Yeah, and so that's a. There's guidelines that you need to take, uh, to take, and making sure, because you know the devil is real and you know the devil is convincing and I am very much smarter than you.

Speaker 2

You're right.

Speaker 1

So you got to make sure that, hey, I'm following the word, because I don't want to be led astray. I need to be in the church and, being with others who can help keep me on track, I can worship him together, we can all have conversations together and being in an environment where I'm with like-minded individuals yeah so. So this isn't. It's not just we need to go to church every day, it's actually necessity. So let me ask you this.

Speaker 2

So if there is a person that's, um, spiritual, or they call themselves spiritual because it sounds like when you hear the word spiritual you only think of one thing or one type of person, I'm what I'm saying is that from my perspective, I believe like a person can kind of do both in a way. So let's say there's a person, that, that, that does both, that does follow all that, but they say spirituality and it's not. I don't know.

Speaker 2

It's like how you're explaining it is it's kind of like explaining it as like other, but that's not really like how I look at it other other, as in like you're not religious, like you're not, you're not on this side, but like, how I see it, what I'm seeing in my head is, or the question is do you think that a person can be quote spiritual, like you know, outside meditating tree hugger did like that person feel like they're connected to the answer. All that type of person but also reads the bible, knows the bible back and forth, only follows those commands as well, and do you feel like that can be one in the same?

Speaker 1

um, so the devil knows the bible back and forth include yeah, he knows the bible too but like um, but what?

Speaker 2

I'm saying is is that do you feel like both of y'all are still one in the same under god, as both of y'all are still sinners? I mean yeah, yeah so why is there such a hard line?

Speaker 1

you.

Speaker 2

Well, you asked for my opinion oh yeah, no, no, I'm enjoying it, like you know.

Speaker 1

I mean yeah yeah, so why is there such a hard line? Well, you asked for my opinion. Oh, yeah, no, no, no, I'm enjoying it, Like you know. So I'm saying that I ain't going to come like nigga, get the F out of here with that spiritual shit. Yeah, Like I ain't that with it. You know what?

Speaker 3

I mean, oh, right, right, right but yeah, yeah, that with it.

Speaker 1

You know what I mean. Oh right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but yeah is there a part of me it'd be like I mean okay, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, all right, like that, that it doesn't carry much weight with me. You, you might as well just say I'd rather hear it say I believe in god. I, I just like doing me you know, but that's like the same and I respect that more because you're real with yourself saying, hey, I just love having sex with these hoes.

Speaker 1

You know what I mean, Like I can respect that more. Then you give an answer to where it feels good with you, Like this feels good to say you know, yeah. So like I want you to be real with yourself and and just saying, hey, I'm spiritual or hey, I like I don't care to go to church on sunday. It's boring like just say, say something, say that yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, versus but okay, well, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 2

It seems like well in my perception of what you're saying. It seems like well in my perception of what you're saying. It sounds like it's still one in the same. They're just using the word spiritual.

Speaker 1

You just don't like the word spiritual. It just feels like you're kind of lying to yourself.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but it's like, it's like you're. I don't make it sound good.

Speaker 1

Like like be real. You like you just don't like going to church, you find it boring, or or you like you just don't like going to church. You find it boring or you like your time to yourself, but you believe in God. You just don't want to take the steps to go any further than belief. Yeah, you want to make it to. Yes yes, and that's kind of really where it's at. It's like hey, I want to get an understanding, but I want to do it on my terms.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and I'm like okay, I can respect the realness of it, but you're saying you know, I don't. I feel like you know, churches, they all judgy, and yada, yada. That's every human ever like. Yeah, you're saying something that that is just a normal person like Like, yeah, we all sin.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

We always go like you do something, we're going to have a response to it. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, yeah. Like you can shoot a man in the chest and like every Christian is like not supposed to feel a way about that. Like, hey, we ain't supposed to judge, we ain't supposed to. Yeah, we're going to have a human reaction. I think we're all humans together. Yeah, yeah, Gossip.

Speaker 2

Yes, people are going to gossip and talk about you.

Speaker 1

It is what it is. Oh well, like I'm sure people talk about me in my church, I care next to little about it. Yeah, Like literally zero, that's pretty clear. Like it's close, it's very, it's a very thin line.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I, you know, I don't, I don't wild out about my conservatives, I kind of keep it, Cause I did one time and it was a whole thing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they got upset I was like they're way too you know, like they hard-lining democrats. Yeah, and I was like all right, I'll just keep that to myself.

Speaker 2

Um, but yeah, um, so, yeah, so I think it's one and the same, basically. Yeah, I mean those two words.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there's there's guys we follow, I guidelines you follow. I think that trace is absolutely essential and not out, and even outside the names that the things that I mentioned before of how coming together and assistance is very powerful keeping you on track. Um, needing god, needing people to pray for you, worship, giving to god what, uh, what he's given to us, it offering is very much important and very much crapped on, because I was listening to Ben Shapiro on the Breakfast Club today and he said something that I knew but never really thought about.

Speaker 1

It's just, you know, when they talk about giving money to the government and taxes and things like that to one entity and they're not actually putting the money to your causes. Charlemagne and Ben Shapiro agreed on that. That's kind of why church is important, because you give it to the one entity that you actually believe in and they're going to give it to others who can help. Need a cause, oh shit.

Speaker 2

I think we did it. Yeah, my storage is full.

Speaker 1

Okay, all right. Well, this is two for the culture. Oh shit, yeah.

Speaker 2

Is it okay? Oh no, it is what it is. I'll try it again, All right.

Speaker 3

Well, no worries this is two for the culture. We'll be back. Yeah, we'll be back. Love y'all.