Two for the Culture
Two for the Culture is brought to you be Steven Rey and Justin Devonte. This is the podcast for the ages! Both Steve and Justin has been friends for over a decade plus and will give you a genuine approach on news and culture with humor and love. I promise this will be one of your favorite podcasts that you will not get enough of!
Two for the Culture
Sherrone Moore, Temptation, and Validation
Two friends dissect a headline-grabbing coaching scandal to examine power, proximity, and the stories men tell themselves about sex, status, and discipline. We push past the tabloid layer into accountability, boundaries at work, and the deeper need for validation.
• policy breaches and power imbalance at work
• playing the victim versus taking responsibility
• stalking, escalation, and safety signals
• temptation, novelty, and the cost of ego
• guilt forecasting and worst-case thinking
• work proximity attraction and strict boundaries
• loyalty, cheating, and self-image
• childhood scripts shaping adult validation
• asking why before acting as a discipline
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And we are back with another episode of Two for the Culture. I'm Justin Devante. Steven Ray. And we are back. I believe we got a great show lined up for you tonight. Some may say the best show I've ever had. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So hey, like and subscribe. Like and subscribe.
SPEAKER_01:Like and subscribe.
SPEAKER_06:Now, uh, before we really get into it, everything's good with you this week? Yeah, everything's good. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So let's kind of jump right into it because, you know, we may be a little um short on time. Uh-huh. But um, so are you familiar with the Sharon Moore incident? Uh no. Okay. I I'll break it down for you and who that is, and because you're not a big football guy. Right. Um, so it's big in the uh news right now. And the reason why I feel like it's an important conversation is like everything that we've talked about up until this point is kind of like no, no, no, like it's it's all um kind of gather around a situation that he's in. Like whether it's talking about you know dating and relationship, being honest uh about the about dating when you're talking to another person, just being communication, all that stuff kind of aligns. And also one thing that we haven't that uh that's critical in this situation is being in somewhat of a toxic situation. I think we probably brushed over it, but not in the way that we're probably gonna talk about today. All right, so Sharon Moore, he's um the former head coach of the University of Michigan football team. So he um took over for John or John or Jim Harbaugh, whoever coaches the uh the LA Chargers, but he took over for him. Um had didn't have a great record last year, but this year record uh this year he had like a 93 record, so a very strong record for um his second year. Did I think he was on the track to do really well? Um he had a good season this year.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Um, but nonetheless, he I'm gonna kind of read a quick headline of what happened. So he was uh fired on December 10th of uh 2025. Um after investigation from the university that found out that he had a relationship with a um with a staff member here who was so he's in his late 30s, if not early 40s, and um he was having an intimate relationship with uh a staff member that was maybe in her early 30s, if not 30. Um so got let go of the football team. Um the program is he married or something? He so he's married with three kids. Okay, but that's not but he's let go because that is inappropriate relationship and that's a um a conduct policy. Really? Yep. So here hours after firing, uh, police responded to a 9-11 call um at an Ann Arbor resident, which is uh residence, which is a city um that is in Michigan. Um so University of Michigan's is in Ann Arbor. So just kind of breaking that down for you. And then so a woman reported that a man um broke into her home and was threatening to kill to kill himself in front of her. And and so pretty much so pretty much what was happening, or I say self-transition, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Unalive, whatever.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, exactly. But nonetheless, so he came into his mistress's home, broke into it, and just hey, I just got fired, my blood is on it. Your your hands, you did this to me, you ruined my life, you know. So he picked up a butter knife and you know, put it to his neck.
SPEAKER_02:A butter knife?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, a butter knife, yeah, yeah. And some uh kitchen scissors. No, I mean he didn't try to kill himself, but you know, he was just like, You ruined my life, you know, talking to his mistress or the person, the staff member that was on the team.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so any thoughts before I uh how why how was the phone call? I'm trying to figure out how it got to the point of calling the police on somebody threatening to kill themselves with a butter knife.
SPEAKER_06:Well, I mean, he broke into her home. That's one thing. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. That that so how how he got there, kicked the door. We don't know that part whether he had keys, whether he paid the rent, you know, we don't know that part of it. Oh, right. But it this is the police report that was filed, broke into her home, and then he's kind of arguing with her saying, Hey, you were in my life, you snitched on our situation that led me to get fired, and now I had to confront this to my wife. How'd she snitch? Uh I think from the uh report is that you know, he was calling her, she didn't answer, and at a certain point it was maybe she was getting uncomfortable with the situation, so it led her to talk to the university about their relationship with her, yeah. Um, in between that time, she was making 45,000, he doubled her salary, she was making 90. Yeah, so it was a lot of you know what are you thinking? Why did she do that? Why did she tell? Yeah. Um why are you snitching anyway? Because so he so he's also charged with stalking.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, yeah, so he just became weird, and then it's like, what am I supposed to do?
SPEAKER_06:That's what I'm led to believe given his charges.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, he broke into her home. Yeah, yeah. So she was scared of something.
SPEAKER_06:So she was dodging phone calls. If he's charged with stalking, then he drove by, maybe knocked on the door, made phone calls, tried to get her to pick up.
SPEAKER_02:And probably using everything against her. Like I doubled your shit, like I doubled your salary. I maybe. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah. I don't know that part of it. But to be charged with stalking, that's not because you broke into some home invasion. Nobody's gonna charge you to stalking that's over time. So there's got to be multiple situations. So she's probably um ghosting him. Yeah, and then he's wanting to get in touch, so she's very uncomfortable. Of course, she's gonna choose her life over a job as any person would, right? And so she's like, hey, I'm at this point, I need to file a pre-support, I need to let the university know what's going on because I'm trying to protect myself, right? And now at the you know, given this culture, she probably wound up suing, you know what I mean? Because it's uh you know, a power dynamic situation. So I could see that coming. So she has to go through all the ends to make sure she's doing the right thing. So she's probably gonna sue as well. So why didn't she get fired? I'm sure she probably did. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not gonna report it. That's not the juicy headline. Yeah, yeah. Who cares if she got fired? Yeah, most likely she did, you know, or if she just fired uh she quit. You know what I mean? So yeah, that's probably yeah, hey, I I'm probably gonna sue the university and I'm probably gonna sue Sharon Moore. That that is what I would expect, not that I know that for sure. Yeah. Um, I think where it comes to where um it's an interesting conversation over this, is because it comes it aligns with hey, proper communication and even with your wife. Like, hey, being honest about who you are. How are you gonna do that? I think one, I think that's he got he got one of them good ones. So I think that is you one, you gotta know who you are. Two, so that's one part. We talked about work relationship, have we not?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And there's a way that you can miss, hey, I I mean, those are not easy different easy situations to uh discuss about who you are openly. But like, hey, this is what this is. I think he could avoid a lot of things. Well, one, he is this is con conduct detrimental to the university or whatever, so he probably got fired. So that wasn't it's uh you shouldn't have one participated in it or been in this relationship anyway. Um but yeah, so we talked about that. We also talked about um yeah, we brushed over a little bit about just being in a toxic relationship, but I think where I really want to dive in a little bit more is like how much you know you're talking about self-harm, how that now makes you the victim. So now the situation at hand, we gotta focus focus on you. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02:Like made it about him.
SPEAKER_06:Exactly. So for example, yeah. So so have so have you ever played victim in something that you did wrong? I'm gonna do it, I swear. No, no, not that not that deep.
SPEAKER_02:But played victim? What do you what do you mean by that? Uh well, so because he's clearly like, yeah, no, he's he's like grade A acting.
SPEAKER_06:This is I mean, maybe he believes that. Maybe he believes that he's gonna do it. Grabbing a butter knife is a little, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:He's like, I'm not gonna go that far.
SPEAKER_06:Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Cause I mean, uh what if a man was there? What if she was dating somebody in between the time that had to be that'd be awkward? That'd be a bad thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, right. Um unless he just like some weak nigga. Yeah, yeah. Some big strong guy. I assume he's big and strong for some reason.
SPEAKER_06:Um, because he's a football coach. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I understand that you're just like boom, it's just knocking down a wall to some shit to get in. Yeah, but um with a name like Sharron, you know what I mean? Sharon, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:He don't sound like a small guy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. It doesn't. Yeah. If you said Jack Wilson, then I'm like, nah.
SPEAKER_06:But uh Jack Wilson sounds slightly dangerous too.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's giving serial killer vibes for sure. But uh no, that's crazy. That's that's definitely crazy. And he did go the super victim route. I don't know. You're saying something that I've done that that's clearly my fault, but I'm like, no, I gotta flip this shit somehow. Right.
SPEAKER_06:Um because we see that sometimes with our counterparts in a relationship is that if we talk about like you made me do this, you wasn't around, I was lonely. Yes, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:I've of course I have seen more of that. Well, I I have to like truly be accountable. I mean, uh of course, in my mind, the one of the main things that that's coming to my mind is hearing those words from the opposite party. So that's gonna stick out a little bit more for me. But if I were to try to dive in, dive deep, and say maybe, maybe, maybe I have. But like time had to pass by for me to realize like nigga, you put yourself in this situation. So I can say, yeah, there there are many times where or there there were there were times where I was with um anybody, any any anybody I've been with or or dealt with, and for instance, if he had knocked the door down and and um did all that, she clearly saw signs of that before that shit even happened. So like he been like that. But he just didn't like the straw, what is it, the the straw that brought the camera back? Yeah, he just ain't got to that point yet, but he didn't show he had to have shown signs of that because first of all, why would she even ruin her own career? Or like why would she even step forward with that? It sounded like she was scared. Yeah, for sure. It definitely sounds like she was scared, but um excuse me, there there have been times where I'll be like, or I was like, uh this person that I'm with or was with or whatever like damn, they they're this, they're that, they're and I would just kind of like blame them for being them. But I think that's a way of being a victim in your own situation because you could have been left, like you could have been um saw the signs for what they were, and otherwise I'm just saying like no that we're in this because you're like this. I done seen that girl was like that a long ass time ago. So I think there there is a sense somewhere in in people's lives where we do, not that far, but there is a sense somewhere, at least like especially in the heat of the moment uh of certain situations. I think I I have played victim before because I I wouldn't have got to the point where I am now where I look back and I be like, yeah, yeah, they was like that, but like I definitely could have been leftist. Like I yeah, yeah, they did this, it went this far, but I also like gave them some room and leniency way before they even got to this part. So it's like, yeah. So I feel like yes, I have played the victim in some moments, but um clearly not to that extent. But as time passed by, I had to like when you sit with yourself, or if you want to sit with yourself, yeah, I did realize like I had a I had a play in uh a lot of how that stuff went. No, no matter if they was tripping or not. Like I was tripping, letting them trip. You know?
SPEAKER_06:So I is it do you want to elaborate more or do you just want to keep it there? Uh uh what do you mean? More about the story of what you were referring to, or is that a story for another day?
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean, um I'm just saying, like, in terms of uh um, I mean, I think I basically said like how uh I was with a girl um and she used to uh she would it started out like she would like block me. But like she was so good on all these other levels, like that there were different there were different situations that I was in there that you can pull from that like one certain relationship or certain relationships that I've been in, I didn't know that I was giving them leniency and all that. I didn't know that I was like that my boundaries weren't intact or whatever.
SPEAKER_06:Your boundary wasn't intact, yeah. So you didn't know that that was a boundary for you at that time?
SPEAKER_02:I didn't know like certain I didn't know oh I'm supposed to be laying down boundaries right now in certain relationships, but like in other ones, I knew exactly, I knew exactly like I could lay a boundary down, but they're so good at all these other things, you got it today. So like it'll start like that. So you didn't enforce your boundary, I didn't enforce it, but I knew what I was doing then though. Okay, because I'm like, no, man, you know, I could enforce, but like, man, they got all these other points that I love. She blocked me last night. It's all right, she'll be a wife tomorrow, you know. And what happens with that? Boom. All right, so the next time, instead of like for a certain amount of hours, now like it's on DD as soon as we have an argument or something, and then now it's like blocked for two days. All right, then you know that goes by, and you know it was just very slow, but like I let certain things happen, and then I could say, man, she's avoidant, she's those are all true, but like I'm letting it happen. So like I'm literally allowing this to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Like the girl, I know she done seen signs of how crazy this nigga is, and she probably stayed, and let that shit get bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. I don't know the situation, and you know that she did seem scared. So I will I will get that. But um, yeah, like that there were times where like I I could play the victim in that situation and say, like, man, she's avoidant, she probably got uh abandonment issues, and da da da da. I could say all that, and it could be possibly true. But that's me playing the victim too, though. Because like I see, I see what's happening in front of me. So um yeah, that that's just what I mean.
SPEAKER_01:It's like it ain't that crazy, right?
SPEAKER_02:But I think people do play victim a lot when it comes in the heat of the moment of things or arguments or whatever. I I've seen myself I would have to look back on certain situations and realize like, oh shit, you really just blaming them, but you done seen that shit the whole time, so whose fault is it really?
SPEAKER_06:Right, okay. I uh that's a good point. And um, I think that there's all like is it always a hundred percent somebody's fault when it comes to relationships? So if you take it to the the side chick, she instead of ghosting her ghosting him, assuming that we're going down this narrative because we don't know, of course, we don't know exactly what happened, but she could have given the honest communication like, hey, you're married, I don't there's not a future here. You have three kids, you have a one-year-old or however young, and I still want to be married. This relationship gotta end at some point because you're not get you're not going to be able to leave your family. Because he could have very I mean, I think from my understanding of how I'm reading this, they've had a relationship for years. For you to double her salary, that means that she's been there and to for a salary to be doubled. You can't just double a salary on on in you know a couple months in. You know, so I think she they've been there for years, yeah. And he could have, and he's been with the program under Jim Hart or Jim or John, I don't know, Harbaugh. Um, and so he's was like a tight ends coach, offensive line coach, offer offensive coordinator. Um, so they could have had a stemming relationship for a while now, um, to where now he had the opportunity to maybe double her salary because now he's the head coach. And um whether he was probably promising, hey, I'm gonna leave my wife, I'm gonna do this for you. Because for you to do all this for her, you it sounds like you love her too. Um I doubt it.
SPEAKER_02:You don't think he loved her? I no, no, no, no. Maybe, maybe so. Yeah, but uh, I mean that yeah, unless he's just like a natural crash out or something like that. But uh it sounds to me the way that story unfolded, it sounds to me like she did come to him and say that. But it sounds like there had to be a number of steps that she tried before it got to her going to the job. That's a major thing. So like I'm pretty sure she told him what you're saying. And I'm pretty sure for some reason I doubt he gave the narrative of I'ma leave my wife. I don't think niggas be doing that for real. You okay, maybe. I don't know. I be seeing it in movies, usually old movies. But I don't think I don't think after niggas get married, they just be telling women like I'ma leave my wife. I think that's like the old vintage movie or something. Okay, I mean I don't see I don't see niggas doing that.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, maybe, maybe not, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:But um I definitely feel like she said uh eventually it got to that point when he starts stalking and all that, like I'm pretty sure she said something.
SPEAKER_06:To him. You think that she properly communicated that hey, this is not gonna work out, we should separate?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Yeah, somewhere in there. Maybe because yeah, I I don't I don't see I don't see a person going through all of that and and taking themselves to because now, like, your your life is changing now. You're about to drastically change your own life. So that's a big ass move to find. File something, and you know his name is gonna circulate, and now your name that what does that do to your career? Like, I'm pretty sure she did, or it sounds like sh it sounds like she did whatever she could before she actually stepped up and and expressed uh what's going on.
SPEAKER_06:Possibly, possibly, I don't know. Yeah, but not returning calls. Maybe she had told them, hey, we're breaking this up, we're done, um, for whatever reason. Because, you know, but just how I'm reading it, it just seems like uh, and she could have taken those steps to communicate probably that it was probably not the breakoff was not communicated properly in the where and ultimately, like I'm not victim blaming, I'm just saying, hey, accountability is very seldomly a hundred percent because I mean, one she's slept with a married man fooling knowing that he was married, correct? So so there could be some hey, some um guilt con, you know, just like hey, guilt is kind of eating her up. It's like, hey, I'm kind of done with this. But over years, I imagine that, you know, at some point that could be the case. But um, I feel like it could have been a relationship that she was interested in pursuing further. Like, hey, I met this guy, he's great to me. This is who I want to be with now. And that's typically how I how it goes, right? Like you're in a good situation, you just got your doubt uh salary doubled, you know what I mean? You you're uh getting paid well, you're getting dicked down, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, there's not much commitment there, but you know, I uh this is just me outside looking looking in. Um but also with this um how just to analyze the situation and talk about Sharon more. This and this is why I can guy kind of get um I can be too analytical, but it's when we talk about a nut, like is a nut worth all this when we go when we engage in you know some of this behavior, because I remember I talked about being an Uber driver dropping off that bandy student. You're like, I analyze the situation. It's like what is the worst case scenario? Facts, yeah, yeah. The worst like it feels being simply accused can makes me feel bad. Like, hey, you did this. Not even them, you know, there's a police report and all this extra stuff, just simply stating that hey, I think you're this, I think you're a creep. That small accusation doesn't sit well, right? You know what I mean, let alone going through the whole process. So when this Vanny student was drunk, I was like, Yeah, I ain't stepping up in nobody's dorm room.
SPEAKER_02:My mind's like and you drunk as hell, too.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, you're drunk, you're cute, but was she white? Yes, exactly. I'm like red, black, yeah, yeah. So I was like, Yeah, I can we'll exchange numbers, and this is someone you're gonna do. I was never gonna hear that, but it's kind of my left-handed reject. You're like, how and be nice about it, yeah, and be like, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah, so I'm like, Yeah, we can exchange number, we can hang out tomorrow, yada yada. And so, but I'm in my full well in my mind, I was like, What's the worst case scenario? Worst case scenario, you can go up there, yeah. You you get a nut off, then the oh, I wasn't in my right mode.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And keep in mind I would be so fucking scared. Exactly.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, because I mean she's at the bar, so I'm assuming she's 21 or older. I'm uh I'm 30 years old. Yeah, he's older than me, like that dynamics, the creepy, weird Uber driver. You like my mind goes to my you know what? Masturbation ain't that bad. You know, because honestly, like let's have let's talk about it. What is the difference between just uh uh masturbating and then having sex? A lot. It's a lot it's a lot. It's it you're saying it'll it feels a lot better, that nut. Not that good. Okay, I'm saying, like, it's never that good. Yeah, never no, it'll never be that good. Yeah, so I'm like, you know what? I can masturbate the house deep.
SPEAKER_02:I'm pretty sure somebody looks like you on porn or something.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah. And that's kind of where I land in situations like that. It's like, dude, what is the end result? And Sharon Moore should have landed there too. It's like, hey, what is the worst case scenario happening? Is this coochie worse uh worth losing my job over? Yeah, of course not. Is it worth losing my family over? Of course not. Is it worth being all in the news? Because I I look at myself like what if a news was, yeah. Uh Fox 17. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. Or points that an Uber driver. Yeah, yeah. Like done. Yeah, exactly. And so I've all that's like, that's not worth the accusation, that's not worth my, you know, my family, how how I'm looked at, my reputation, everything that you work for.
SPEAKER_02:There's never really thing, and neither do I ever really think about the family in the situation. I never think about it.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, you don't think about how your mom feels?
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm saying like if I were to see somebody online or you know, whatever going through their own thing, I never think about their family. Uh, but you saying that, and then like, damn, like everybody who actually knows you and stuff, like they see this stuff um online. That's that's that's that that would be hectic to to deal with. I couldn't imagine being accused of anything, and you know, my my mom or sister or my dad sees it, or you know, stuff like that, or or anybody attached to Kaya, like her, that whole side of her family. Yeah, that that would be crazy. I I never think about stuff like that.
SPEAKER_06:I understood. Because I look at like Shaman Sharon's more story, like his story may be invalid. Hey, she came after me. You know, I was seduced. All that don't matter. Exactly. 100%. And for me, if I was accused of like I never did anything, she's the one who kissed on me, that enticed me. Who cares? Who cares? Who cares about your story? Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:I I advocate, do not deal with well, I I don't know what this situation is, but dealing with toxic women is not healthy for a man, just especially especially if they're like physically like toxic or like too much masculine energy, like like the rah-rah, that type of shit. I feel like the man is always gonna lose in that situation. Because either he leaves or if he stays, that dynamic. If I was around a kid who always just just like did that. Bucked at you? Yeah, just like butt like uh a child, not not not a child child, but let's say this nigga like 10. And every time I'm around, he just like do that type of shit. Eventually, I'm gonna get mad at that shit. And this is a kid we talk about, right? Yeah, so if you're around a woman who's like always like the toxic, who loses? You the man is gonna lose. I feel like the man's gonna lose the most if he stays in there. Because as soon as he's on what she's on, it's over. Right. It's done.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. And I think that also plays into like when we talk about uh football, football players, and this kind of extends to the coaches as well. They're very passionate people, yeah, they're gonna be emotional, they love the game, so they they can carry that in their daily lives as well. So passionate, emotional guy, you know, brings that into his relationship, brings that into a side chick. Yeah, so so now you're acting very much on character of who you are because that's you you love breed football. And that's kind of what I'm kind of stemming from him, and so that's also being a part of who you're messing with as well. You gotta very much know the person you're dealing with too. So it's it's always like um, it's very seldomly 100% one person. You gotta be, you know, I'm of course you gotta be wise to it too, but it this is a learning situation for everybody, and that's when we talked about what we can learn from this and why we talk um everything we talked about kind of comes all together with situations such as him. Because I mean, he he won't be the only one, he won't be the last one. Tiger Woods was very much in a similar situation to this, to where he's messing with uh not only just one chick, but several chicks. You know, his wife finds out she um reacts emotionally, now it's all over the news. Now you're getting divorced, you're losing hundreds of millions of dollars. Like it's every situation is going to be slightly different, but there it's all over what? Cusha. It's all over, and I think it can be beyond just and that's why I wanted to talk about like how much is having sex with somebody and masturbation, what's the is it like head and shoulders different? Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, okay, yes, it's a woman, it's uh hell no, it's just different.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so break it down for me because that's like I said, when I'm going my analytical mind, when I'm getting when I'm nutting, it's not that serious though.
SPEAKER_02:It would never be that serious. Niggas many, many, many people lose their lives. Okay.
SPEAKER_06:And I yeah, so what I'm saying is, is it because it's the because I also correct me when I'm wrong, this is our podcast, so we can kind of go how we want. So her letting you enter her gates, right? That as an ego, that feels good too a man. Okay. So I feel like that's one thing. Then of course, her body, beautiful, you know, you kissing foreplay, all those stuff, all that stuff is great. But the actual net itself, it's fairly similar to the net you would get in masturbation, is it not?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, sh sure, if you're talking like just pure nut for nut. Anatomically? Did I say that right? I don't know, but let's go with it. Yeah, uh, yeah, anatomy-wise, like, sure. Like you the point A to point Z, both reach point Z. Sure, I get that. Right. But it ain't, it ain't the same. It's like, no, it's like it's it's all that leads, it's human nature, right? Yeah, like um, yeah, like a a woman's touch, uh and I'm sure on their side, same thing. Right. Just like a man's, yeah, like it's it's totally different. I don't think it would ever, ever, ever, ever be um worth um that though. Yeah, that that that that disrupt of peace and um yeah, just like thinking about shit like that. I don't know. Like I've been in certain situations, and we we just talked about a situation, like the coochie ain't everything, bro. Like it's not like that shit that shit. I I've been in random situations where I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. I'll tell you about it after. Okay, but uh that valid reason why not.
SPEAKER_00:But um, but yeah, but there there's just certain situations that you you really gotta look out for.
SPEAKER_02:And I get it. Like it's is everybody knows, you know, like it's nothing better. I mean, I'm sorry to say, but there's nothing better than new pussy. It's not, it's just like it could be what sucks is like after it. But like the chase and the the new thing, it's it's the achievement thing for men, like you said, like the ego boost, it's like unlocking this achievement of um she trusts me enough to have my way with her body or whatever. Like that that's uh amazing feeling, you know what I'm saying? To unlock, like not necessarily like after a while, y'all, y'all fucking for a while that I'm talking about the first time. It's like they are cracked. You know what I'm saying? It's like uh that that is a um a thing for men for sure. So I get that, but it ain't worth um all that other stuff, right?
SPEAKER_06:And so I want to say I totally, I totally 100% agree with you, uh, man to man, all those things, but I also feel like that can be what's wrong with us as well. It's like why does that feel good? Is that how we're made? Is it or is it like psychos that is like a insecurity of us? What do you mean? To where like, why do we need that satisfaction that she led us, she trusts us enough? Like, we should have, you know what I mean? Like, why does that um I'm I know it's not co the cosine is not what the word I'm looking for, but why is that extra added you know, trust make us feel good? Why don't why don't we just carry that naturally? So that's and that's essentially what I'm saying. Is that a man trait? Or is that like an insecurity of us to where we need that female satisfaction to make us feel better?
SPEAKER_02:It could be, it could be depending on a man. Okay, yeah, it could be dependent on a man. There, they're uh there are men who would um have relations with uh people I've turned down just to make them feel good about getting some. So I think there's that that that has a play in a lot of a lot of men's downfall as well. Um the feeling of being like that guy and all that. I think that that does resonate with a lot of uh a lot of men for sure. Especially I feel like a lot of men who don't have the opportunity, um, whether they choose to take it or not, to actually get women. Um aka niggas that don't get hosts, like uh, or whatever they say on the streets. But um, yeah, some some some men can be like super insecure about themselves and like trying to um trying to trying to trying to trying to prove something, you know.
SPEAKER_06:Right. And so because I think when this was months ago, when you talked to you about why and asking your questions more why, I think that is just like a constant theme on a podcast, because that is just was just profound when you said it is why am I doing this thing? And so when we ask each other quite like me questioning about secure since uh insecurity of ours, is why do we feel this way? Because now I'm looking at everything like, and I've always had a hint of that, but when you said it, it just kind of like unlocked another thought of mine, like another gate. And I'm like, Yeah, I should be asking myself why more. Yeah. Um, and yeah, because because I don't want to just say, hey, this is men, you know, just love coochie, men just that's our how we're anatomics anatomants built or anatomies built. Um, you know, we just born this way. Like, okay, let's break it down. Why? Like, why does her she saying I'm beautiful make me feel good? Like, is that something that I need, or is it just a compliment and then I move forward? Like, I just want more questions on why. And so we can kind of break it down to where we're making sense because this, I mean, like I said, I agree with you on those, like, you know, she's let me in, yeah. That makes me feel good. But why does that make me feel good? Why can't I get that from myself?
SPEAKER_02:So I think I've had I mean I've had that feeling. I agree with you, but also it's like let's say we're talking about hooping, and it ain't nothing like winning the game. You know what I'm saying? That that's that's like that's like two people who one person goes to the game and they see um I don't know if this is the correct metaphor. One person is just enjoying themselves, just just being out in the world or whatever. They see a basketball game. Oh, that was lit. Damn, I'm I'm I'm validated today, I had fun. Or I'm fulfilled today, I had fun. Versus the person playing the game. And then it's like they won the game. Like they they're stupid fulfilled, because like it's their reality of being in the moment, all the emotions, the lead up, the this, to that, the da da da, like the the the sense of um energy and like life itself is different from the guy on the court than the guy just casually watching the game, or or just having fun with his Saturday or whatever. Like, that's two different versions of leaving the game. So what I'm saying is it's like yeah, you can masturbate to a girl that looks just like her. But it ain't it ain't nothing like being in the game. And you know, um so that's just natural, but the feeling of why, I do wonder, I do wonder um what that is. I feel like I feel like we're just fucking shit up on earth. I feel like it's way more sacred, or it's supposed to be taken way more sacred, because the feeling is way too good. So like I feel like maybe it's supposed to be way more of a sacred thing, and we just like fuck the whole system up.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so yeah, I I I agree. Yeah, so let me get my theory on it. Is um this is my own experience of how um when I was younger growing up, that's what made you a man is having sex. With uh yeah, so um when I was in high school, you know, there would be like a it was uncool to be a virgin. At what at what grade for you? Um, I mean, this is probably ninth grade, most likely. Yeah, yeah. I would I would say if not in eighth grade, you know what I mean? Uh huh. Yeah, so going growing up, you know, you're getting, you know, you ain't getting none freshman, sophomore, junior, you know what I mean? So now it's like, hey, you know, we gotta figure something out. Because when I talk to one of my best Friends, he grew up in a white neighborhood. That wasn't a thing for him.
SPEAKER_02:Losing your virginity, like you said it. Can you expand on it? Like what the difference was between the um like that was never a conversation.
SPEAKER_06:You wasn't uncool because you was a virgin. That wasn't a conversation that they had growing up in his uh neighborhood.
SPEAKER_02:And what what was more for theirs?
SPEAKER_06:Um, whatever. It just wasn't sex didn't make you who you were. Yeah, yeah. So that wasn't a conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you had mentioned it before.
SPEAKER_06:You were saying like the difference between um well, I was just saying for myself, like growing up, um, that that's what like, hey, you you you ain't a man for real if you ain't getting none yet. You ain't getting none yet. Dang, you like you labor as hell, you know what I mean? So I wonder if that's what also links up in Tarasaki now is like those whole those uh childhood traumas of you being uncool. This is what makes you a man, this is why it feels good. Um, and I think that's somewhere I'm landing somewhere with that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh, I do feel like when I was talking about other men, um that I've noticed that it seems like to be, quote, the man is to just like have a lot of girls and you having sex with a lot of girls and all that type of stuff. Like, I I do um think it comes from that. Yeah, I think it comes from that. And of course, like older uncles and right, yeah, like stuff like that. Like, yeah, you ain't getting no, you ain't getting that shit wet, nigga. You know, yeah, like stuff like that for sure. Um everybody got that uncle. But yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think I think uh growing up that was always around for sure. Before we talk about bills, your credit, the politics, or or uh being a part of your community and like being a man, like what it actually means. Um taking care of your family, all that type of shit. Yeah, I think in school anyway, because mine was about the same, like ninth and tenth grade. Yeah, like I remember when I went to 10th grade and I ain't smashed yet. I'm like, shit. Shit, I got a girlfriend and everything. Like, what's what's up? But um, no, I definitely felt that pressure. Yeah, for sure. Because it's it's just a conversation and you gotta look like you know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_02:Because if not, they they can smell it on you.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it's not true. They can smell it on you, he ain't getting no yeah, but for a fact, right, right, yeah, because it got a conversation we was on the bus, and then me and my best friend is like, hey, y'all still virgins? Yep, let's bet on who's gonna get one first. You know what I mean? So you felt this extra added pressure to do so. Not eat not that I even wanted to, you know what I mean? But now I feel like the peer pressure, and and I've always been good on like try uh like peer pressure and being unwavering, but at some point it does get to you. Um and that was one of my probably one of my unproudest moments of like, damn, I didn't let that get to me. You know, I should have held strong on my principles.
SPEAKER_02:Uh because of all that, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:I yeah, I I feel like yeah, I what I didn't I'm I know the experience I had at the time, it's not because I wanted to have it, it's because to be ultimately lose out my virginity so I could no longer be a virgin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's not how yeah, uh that was kind that's kind of whack to me. Yeah, yeah, not that when it was a virgin, not me. Couldn't wait to do that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. That that's hilarious. But yeah, so uh I was like, bruh, that was whack. You know what I mean? Um but yeah, so that was another place where I wanted to kind of learn because this this uh situation kind of touches a lot of things, yeah. Um but even being married, oh, I was gonna talk about the just being honest. Cause for for me, it's like one, he's already um against the university policy by messing with her. Why not go to somebody else who's not a part of the university? She in his face. It's human nature. Okay. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_02:Which sucks for me to say. I hope I don't eat those words one day. There's this fine ass woman in the office, and like, and you know, she right there. You know, or we're attracted to each other or something. I just think it's uh you mentioned it the uh before, like you around somebody 24-7. They could have been a six the first time you seen them, but shit, a year and a half later, like you really know that person now. Like they're they're like, they're actually kind of funny, you know. They're actually now you start seeing you're you're spending your time mostly at work for most people. Um depending on your job and depending on how invested, but I would assume something like a coach, that shit is like way more than a nine to five. Right. Like in the end of the uh it seems to me the higher your success grows within whatever um industry you are in, the more time that is committed to that thing. So yeah, so like a nigga like somebody on a basketball team, they ain't just showing up to the game. Like you gotta practice and you gotta practice before you practice, you gotta do whatever. I I don't know what they do, but I just know that the more you go up, the more time has to be invested into whatever is is keeping the ball rolling.
SPEAKER_06:Right, and moving the needle. That's the tough about just being in um a co-working environment with the um the sex that you're attracted to. Yeah. Is that you have no choice but to see the real them because they're not really and and well somebody somebody can, you know, there's a lot of times where I'm bringing the best part of myself into a job. So, you know, I'm like, hey, I'm nice to everybody, but I'm not this nice ass guy all the time. But you know, I try to have a good attitude at work and bring good energy because you know, good energy is you know, feels good, people receive it, and then at that return, it makes everybody else good, and everybody works better. So I I keep that in mind, but also when you're there for years, you very much know that person, you see how they are in the relationship, you talk about the relationship, you see that you know their their pros and cons, and you realize that hey, this actually I love who this person is more so than the person I'm married to, more the person I'm with at the moment. And it'll always seem like that. Yeah, right. And you could be very much wrong, but at the same time, you could have seen, hey, she dated so-and-so for two years, and you know, I don't think he's right for her. I met him on several occasions, you they don't work together, but I could put myself in that situation and now work best for me because I love the traits that she brings. So you you're seeing that a lot, definitely over years. Yeah, and so um that's what makes like working next to somebody so scary as well. Because what if you realize shoot, the person I'm with isn't for me?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. So I had a flashback of the work husband. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it happened, it can't I I I've I kind of I don't know, in long-term relationships, I feel like that's going to happen one day. Like if I if I'm if I'm in a relationship with a girl for three, four, five, six months, cool, whatever. But if I'm in a relationship with a girl, or if a girl's in a relationship with me for ten years, there's gonna be somewhere down that line where this girl's tripping, and I gotta go to work and see this woman who smiles every time she sees me. And like, I feel like that's just gonna come in anything long term. So, like the married people and all that, I feel like that happens on both sides, just kind of like what you do with this situation and how you how you uh your your your discernment of it really ain't got nothing to do with discernment for it, it's really just discipline. Just like, bro, this this shit gonna happen. You're always gonna find somebody who looks better than your partner. This is it's is uh I I feel like this is just an always thing, especially with long-term relationships. You're always gonna find somebody funnier than your partner, you're always gonna see somebody whatever, whatever. Because after you know them, they're normal now. Like when you first get to know them, like, damn, this person is great. But long-term relationship, then you see the flaws of this or that, the da da da. You see why they was happy on that Monday versus um other ones. Well, all I'm saying is that I I feel like there are a certain amount of challenges and possible temptations throughout every long-term relationship that you'll have. So I don't, it's a it's a discipline thing. Yeah. So like if he was just trying to, or not even him, but just like certain people maybe like that, it could be an ego thing, it could be a macho man, like I want to take over the world type shit. You know, it could be um the insecurity of not being the man, you know. Um I I I don't really I really don't know what it is, but I do know that shit gonna happen for everybody in long-term relationships, I feel like. Yeah. Like have you ever been in a situation where you was with a girl and you was with her for a long time, and then you saw another girl, and then like she had a liking to you, but she kind of looked better or that was funnier, or like you saw the you saw the differences between them?
SPEAKER_06:Uh no, I haven't been in a situation like that. Have I been in a relationship to where it's like she's cute? Yeah, yeah, and she seems like a good person, yeah. But uh, I've never like, hey, I wanna um I'm gonna put my relationship to the side to pursue her. Well or like I would go out of my way not to do that. Like I'll always be friendly to everybody and be interested in what they got going on and have a conversation, but yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't dictate my relationship on or like put my relationship on the line for um somebody else.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you're speaking on the behalf of a disciplined person.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So that's that's what a disciplined person would say, is what I'm saying. Right. So yeah, there are people like that, and then there are people that's like, man, she keeps looking at me though. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's it's it's it's different. Because I'm like that as well. Like when I'm with a woman, it don't matter who really literally does not matter who it is. Celebrity, this, it don't matter. So yeah, I I think that's just the difference. The difference between um, you know, like just being disciplined and locked in with your person. It's really, it's just commitment. Yeah. Now I I haven't been married for 20 years, right? And all that, you know. Um, but I do still, even if I don't think this will ever happen, but like, yeah, that would be completely my fault. Like, if I was in a situation like that and there's a girl at work, or da-da-da, I'm gonna eventually look at that situation. If I were to, I don't even want to speak something like that into existence, but for a man to uh or anybody in in in in long-term relationships, marriages, especially marriage, like it's a commitment, which is way more challenging. But um yeah, it's really just discipline for real.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I mean, so there have been times where I did Uber and Um like, hey, you trying to come in? I'm like, I got a girlfriend, you know, like dang. You know what I mean? Like if I was single, I'd definitely uh walk in, you know, park somewhere real quick. Yeah, but uh, but outside of that, it's never been like like I'm really entertaining somebody for real. Um but yeah, so the but nonetheless, like dang, you know, it sucks I'm in a relationship right now, but outside of that, yeah, because I I wouldn't want to put my my relationship online. Because like I said, I'm analytical, right? So I'm like, if I was to step in, I have to carry that guilt with me. Facts for a nut. Facts I can masturbate. Like, like for real, I'm never gonna see this person again. It it's great that like I when we talk about the um like she letting you in, how that feels good. Her even offering it, there's a feel-good element to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like okay, you know, thank you. That's complimentary that you want to have sex with me. Right, right, right. Yeah, but um, you know, I I there's so much I will lose. Yeah, yeah, it's because I very much want to be in the relationship that I'm in right now, you know, um, and how she will take it. And I know I can't carry a lie on me that well for v that long. Yeah. Yeah, she she also has my location. So I can't be, yeah, yeah. I can be at, you know, just standing at at dress for a long time. She may be asleep by now, maybe, but even that, I don't even like to just carry the guild around with me. Yeah, like I don't like to, I like to feel conscience-free. I like to have a clear conscience. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so even all those things. Yeah, I don't want to be known as a cheater.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah. Or to even say I have. So that feels good. Like, hey, you know, it feels good not to have cheated before.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, right. Yeah, so I I do believe that as well. Yeah, that there's just a difference between um some people.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, because I think loyalty is everything, and it's like, hey, I've always been loyal. Even when I had the opportunity, not it's not like I'm, you know, just guy that's just nobody wants me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I will say that. I will say that it does give a bit of a side eye. You know, I I I have not many friends, but it's a a a closed um type circle. And um, you know, like like over the over the years of knowing um and conversing with multiple men, like when they say they cheated or this or that, or if it's like a habitual cheater, it's like a slight side eye. Yeah, because it feels like damn, like, you know, it's definitely hard. Like sometimes, I guess you could say. Um in a way, uh I I I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_06:And I think some I've mentioned it before, is some of your actions tell me who you are and tell me about you. Like, yeah, you're a cheater, but also that tells me how you feel about yourself inside. Why do you need to cheat? Why do you need a value? Um why do you need uh not evaluation? That's not there, there you go. Thank you. This is what makes it a partnership or great podcast. Validation from another person constantly. Yeah, because it's like I'm that's why I really wanted to talk about that. It like just how nut is it's like, yeah, new pussy feels great, but it doesn't feel that much better than having a uh a guilt a guilt-free conscience. Yeah. So what it what does that tell me about this that you're you're insecure about yourself from wherever it came from, from where it's childhood where your mama always told you you wasn't shit and get out of her face, you know, whatever it was.
SPEAKER_00:It could be the relationship too, depending on what relationship they are. It could be, it could be a lot of zero validation at the house.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it could be it, it can be, but but also you're cheating, get you're a constant cheater. It's it's deeper than that. Yeah, it's it's deeper than at home at that point. Yeah, yeah. Um, because like I remember talking to one of uh a close friend of mine, and you know, it was a fine chick that you know he cheated on. Um, this was the cheater wasn't a friend, but she she was telling me about the story of the guy that was her cousin, and that you know, he was like a a surgeon or whatever, but you know, was constantly cheating in a relationship, and I was like, that sounds like a trauma thing. You know, it's like, why are you constantly entertaining all these women, letting them meet your mama? I was like, that then you meet that's very intimate. It's like oh, and then it comes to find out, yeah, his mama always told him he wasn't shit. Yeah, so him needing validation from other women is what made him feel good. Yeah, but he didn't, he he may have not known that about him, but me giving the story, I was like, okay, you know, if he's doing all these things for women, telling them what they want to hear, needing the love from them, ultimately just to cheat on them. That that sounds very much deeper than just wanting to have sex. Yeah, yeah. Cause now you want them to make you feel good, yeah, yeah. And now you're this accomplished person and you're constantly doing that. That means you're chasing something inside.
SPEAKER_00:I can see that. I can see that.
SPEAKER_06:And so I was like, okay, there's something wrong with his that happened in his childhood for him to want to constantly do that. Because other than that, you gotta you got beautiful people around you. Like the the girl that I was like, bruh, I was like, I was trying to get down, you know, and then she's telling me the story of her. And I was like, she's a mentor of mine, you know, she used to date my cousin. I'm like, and then I'm like, okay, what happened there? It's like, yeah, if he's constantly doing that, there's something, there's something there with his childhood, because that's just not just wanting to get coochie, there's something deeper. And then she's like, Yeah, well, you know, hit my auntie was doing this, you know, and she, you know, her personality traits wasn't the best, yada yada.
SPEAKER_02:Um, no, that that uh yeah, I feel like a lot of the things that we do, uh it was something meme that popped up, and it said a lot of the things and the traumas and the um how we are all derive from like stuff that we were doing when we were younger or been through when we were younger. And I I I'll I I listened to that and I try to unpack that, and I'm like, I don't know. Like, do you ever think that sometimes it's like maybe you're dealing with certain things or so everybody got their things that they deal with um personally? Oh damn, yeah. Damn. Um but I I I did think like, damn, what is coming from my childhood?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and I think that's always stems on that why questions like, hey, why do I need this validation? Why does this make me feel good? Why did I react this way? What's wrong? What how am I feeling? Why didn't I have come with a better attitude? So I think that's just gonna be a constant theme, and that's what we should uh the audience should ask themselves when they go into any situation, like, okay, why do I behave in this manner? Yeah, is there something wrong? Why is this particular thing triggering for me? But I think this is all we have for you today. We love y'all. We'll be back to for the culture. Thank you.