#38 - Successful School Transitions with Louise White and Tiffany Westphal

In this episode of the School Can't Experience Podcast, hosted by Leisa Reichelt, we discuss the best strategies for preparing children for school transitions. 

As the school year ends, many parents are concerned about how to set their children up for success in the next academic year, especially when transitioning between primary and high school. 

Guests Tiffany Westphal from School Can't Australia and Louise White, who recently completed her PhD on supporting autistic students with transitions, share their insights and experiences. 

Topics include the importance of proactive preparation, communication strategies with teachers, and understanding the challenges neurodivergent children face during transitions. Tune in for valuable advice and resources to help support your child's educational journey.

Recommended Resources

• 2x10 Strategy: https://www.panoramaed.com/blog/2x10-relationship-building-strategy#
• I Can Network - Transition to High School: https://icannetwork.online/online/transition-to-high-school-program/

Transcript

Leisa Reichelt: 0:05

Hello and welcome to the School Can't Experience Podcast. I'm Leisa Reichelt, and this podcast is brought to you by the School Can't Australia community. Caring for a young person who is struggling to attend school can be a stressful and isolating experience, but you are not alone. Thousands of parents across Australia and many more around the world face similar challenges and experiences every day. Today's conversation is a topical one. As we approach the end of the school year, believe it or not. Many of us are probably already thinking about what the next year is going to hold. And today we are talking about setting our kids up for successful school transitions. What are the things that we should be thinking about to help make sure our kids are best prepared for a successful transition into next year? Whether that's primary school kids changing classes and teachers. Or for our primary school kids who are transitioning into high school, which is a huge change. These can be real make or break times for our kids and big triggers for School Can't experiences and, as we are going to learn today, there is plenty that parents and schools can be doing to try to set kids up for successful transitions. We're going to be talking with Tiffany Westphal from School Can't Australia, and also we are meeting Louise White, who has just completed her PhD, looking at supporting autistic students with transitions. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Okay. Louise White, Tiffany Westphal, thank you for joining us on our podcast today.

Louise White: 1:37

No problem

Leisa Reichelt: 1:38

Fantastic. Well, let's get started by getting to know you a little bit and maybe particularly what is your interest or experience when it comes to transitions at school? Kids working through transitional times at school. Lou, do you wanna kick us off?

Louise White: 1:56

My children call me almost Dr Louise White because my thesis is submitted and under examination. So my research looked at supporting autistic students with transitions particularly young adults moving into adulthood I'm autistic myself and have two autistic children and we have persistently found transitions to be probably our biggest challenge. And when I went to the research to try and find what I could do to support my kids better there just wasn't a lot of it So that took me down that research road. I am a teacher as well so I have taught in the United Kingdom and in Australia. I've taught primary and high school. And again I've found differences in how transitions are approached in the UK and in Australia And I think that I can offer a lot in the conversation with regards to the experience of what I have in the UK where I think they do transitions quite well.

Leisa Reichelt: 2:47

Tiffany, let's hear your story.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 2:49

I've got three autistic kids. Two of them are adults and the youngest is 17. I've always done a lot of legwork in preparing them for transitions, especially my youngest one. I remember how much effort it took as a parent. Educating a new teacher at the beginning of every year all through primary school. And then the anxiety of going into high school and having to, this idea of educating a, a whole tonne of teachers, and not being on the doorstep at drop off or pick up. And having to train my child in how to advocate for themselves. yeah, So transitions have always been that I've had some anxiety about because I know that it can go terribly pear shaped and make the wheels quite wobbly very early on in a school year as we transition from one year to another. But even transitions from school holidays back to school, Or from a weekend back to school on a Monday can be difficult. I'm also a social worker and help support others with transitions as well.

Leisa Reichelt: 3:58

We are pushing this episode out to folks in November, not in January. Why worry about that transition now when we can forget it all through the holidays and deal with it when it comes.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 4:12

Because transition's about having a game plan and being prepared. There's a lot that we can do in the lead up to a transition to set the scene, and pave the way for a smooth transition. Lots of our neurodivergent kids in particular, or children with a traumatic background or a difficult past at school carry a high stress load as they're going generally through school life and transitions adds an extra stressor on top the stress burden that they carry.

Leisa Reichelt: 4:43

Louise. Why do some people find transitions so difficult? What are the factors that make transitions really hard for some of our kids and some of us adults as well to be honest.

Louise White: 4:53

So transition equals change. Even if that change may seem minor it may seem you know not a significant thing. But for the individual who is experiencing that change it can be very big. I'll talk about autistic kids a little bit because that is my area where I know a lot about and being autistic myself. Autistic people and I would hazard as a guess a lot of children who are experiencing School Can't have a tendency called intolerance of uncertainty. So if you don't know precisely what's happening, if you're not absolutely certain about what's coming the tendency is to expect the worst. And we certainly know that's quite prevalent in autistic children. And what it means is if you don't have great detail about what's happening, you are going to think it's going to be bad. So you can imagine in a transition, all the things that are changing and all the things that are going to be different if you don't have certainty about all of those things and you are imagining the worst it's a recipe for disaster. Which is why what Tiffany said was so true. November is when we need to be thinking about this because the more of that uncertainty we can take away and the more solid truth about what's happening we can give these children, the more likely they are to have a successful transition. So I think we know with autistic children there's a lot of characteristics of autism that would even add to that even more. We like routine, we like regularity, we like structure. So when you move, all those things change.

Leisa Reichelt: 6:25

The other thing I was thinking of is that, for our neurodivergent kids, social bonds and relationships can be quite hard won. And the end of the school year and coming back to the new year, you know that bond with a teacher or teachers, the bonds with the kids in your class, I dunno, depending on where you are, maybe you get to stay in the same class with the same kids. But where I am, that's not the case. everything gets thrown up and put back together again. I wonder whether that's a big contributing factor as well.

Louise White: 6:55

Yes it definitely is. There's research that shows that in a transition It's not only having to form all those new relationships but mourning the ones that are lost. So that is one thing that I am quite passionate for when I'm advocating for children is if a child who we know experiences difficulty with transition particularly an autistic child if we know they have friends, we know they have peers that they're successful with please keep them together. For those children it's not a want. It's actually a need Just that one little action. I've seen it happen where you keep them with their peers and then all the other potentially difficult things that could have happened, they don't happen because that peer is their anchor. The person that they can go to when they're confused, they can give them the social support they need, help them with their work. It's that it's just so beneficial. I would really ask schools to think about that not as a want but as a need.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 7:46

I think the other aspect to this, and you sort of touched on it, Louise, is attunement to a student and their nervous system and what supports they need. And that takes time to develop in a relationship between a student and a teacher. It's really, hard work when that attunement doesn't exist, or is still in its infancy. It means that the young person's needs go unseen for longer, and that in itself is a stressor, particularly if they aren't able to advocate for themselves about what they need, and the supports they need.

Leisa Reichelt: 8:21

Let's dig into a couple of different contexts. Because I think if you've got primary school, K to six aged kids, the transition is quite different than it is if you are transitioning into high school or throughout high school. Let's start with the younger kids. If folks who are listening have got somebody in that K to six range, and they're thinking about what they could be doing now to start to prepare to make the beginning of next year go as well as it can. What are the kinds of things that parents could be doing with their kid and with the school?

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 9:00

And let's also put this in the context of you might be changing schools too, at this age, because I think the advice is the same. So whether you're changing schools or just going to a new grade with a new teacher the following year. One of the first things I used to do was write a letter saying, hello, this is my kid. This is me. And I'm this young person's support person. We've been on this journey together for quite some time, I'm wanting to be known. That's my first goal is just to be known and, to flag that we require some support. I put into that initial email the history that requires us to have this support. Why the student is vulnerable, what the stressors are, what the difficulties have been, that they may justify the need for some attention and getting on the front foot. Often there's not resources at a school or they don't see the need to, and there's a wait to fail model because that's cheaper, it's less time intensive upfront. But it often means that it's very time intensive and results in some harm that causes difficulty in the longer term, unfortunately. That initial letter would explain what's worked in the past, and what the concerns are about transition, and some suggestions about the kind of teacher that might work best with the child and with me as the supportive adult. And also just some suggestions about building relationship and anything about peers too. So, know, be helpful if there was a supportive peer in the class. We've had this teacher in the past and that wasn't helpful for us. Any of those sorts of insights, and you need to get this to the school in early November. It's at that time that they're starting to have conversations about class makeups and who's gonna be in what class with which teacher.

Louise White: 10:59

I would really agree with all that advice that Tiffany's just given and reflecting on my teaching experience in the UK where there was more of a focus on that transition. There was a real understanding that if we get that transition right we're probably gonna save a lot of problems early in the following year. The sorts of things we used to work with parents to do is if you know your child is going to be likely to have some difficulty in the transition. Please come and see us, let us know. And we would be really keen to talk about trying to put strategies in that plan based on our conversation with the parents. Really collaborative process. We know across all avenues of educational research that collaboration leads to the best outcomes. So we would be inviting that conversation with the parent and asking them are there supportive peers that would be helpful for them to be placed with, what sort of strategies work for your child. And we'd be wanting to start that transition process early. So I worked in a school where every Thursday morning we taught our next year's class for the whole of term four. So I already had a relationship with those students before they even came into my classroom.

Leisa Reichelt: 12:06

Yeah, Louise, my kids started their education in the UK and now that you're talking about it, I feel like I remember that the year group stayed together from year to year. They didn't, throw everyone up in the air and then drop everyone back into classes again. Doing that sort of teaching the year before becomes possible when you're not trying to rebuild the jigsaw puzzle all of the time, doesn't it?

Louise White: 12:27

Yeah But

Leisa Reichelt: 12:28

Why do we not do that here?

Louise White: 12:29

Even if we're not gonna move to that model and if we are gonna do the mixing classes up thing which doesn't make sense to me but that's how it is still decisions can be made about classes earlier and then we can do things. There's been schools that I've supported where they do a whole school transition day. It's only one day but it's better than no day. Everyone goes into their next year's class with their next year's peers with their next year's teacher So that first day back it's not the first time they've been in there. Some schools do book drop off that's great if they can do a book drop off and the kids can come in, in the holidays and just spend time in that room with that teacher And if you know your child particularly with an autistic child if you know that they have a special interest if the teacher's open to oh guess what I just have all these dinosaurs over here that one little bond is all it takes. One connection, and then that child is like wow this person likes dinosaurs, I like dinosaurs. It's gonna be a good year

Leisa Reichelt: 13:19

My experience of primary school in New South Wales is that for most kids, they come back to school for that first week. And the school is saying, we haven't finalized the classes yet. We don't know, because they're waiting to see how many kids actually turn up for school so that they know how many actual teachers they're gonna have so that they can actually finalize the classes. My experience was that if you had an autistic child, they got a special exception. But even that, the special exception thing is a mixed blessing in a way too, isn't it? Because like, well, why do you know your teacher and I don't know, my teacher

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 13:50

I've got a couple experiences where, with my youngest, we had the school start as early as they possibly could. They would assign her to a teacher, in December. Usually the kids found out on the last day of school who their teacher was for the next year in primary school. But she would usually know a couple weeks in advance. Or at a minimum a week in advance. The teacher would know the week prior and they would start developing a relationship with her. It would just be, stopping, when they're on yard duty having a conversation. We arranged for her teacher to send her on errands to the other teacher's classroom or take things across to the other room or help out by listening to other students read. I remember my eldest son, he was really fortunate. He had the same teacher in primary school for three of his primary school years.

Leisa Reichelt: 14:38

Wow.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 14:40

None of my other children got that. It just happened by accident. I don't think it was planned.'cause the school actually had a policy of you not having the same teacher two years in a row for some reason.

Leisa Reichelt: 14:48

Tiffany, you talk about the desire to be known and sort of put those demands onto the school. Reflecting on my own experience when my kids were much younger and I had fewer battle scars I always felt my job was to do the opposite, to not be the annoying parent, to try to acquiesce and, fit in and not make life difficult for them as much as possible. And I think at various points the school has reinforced that as if to say this is a very difficult job we're doing here. We need to be fair to everybody. I can't give everybody what they want. Back off basically, I'd be interested in your reflections on that.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 15:32

Look, if one is coming in and attacking, yes, it can feel like that, but I saw my role as being one that was gonna make their job easier. I'm giving information, because you, as the child's parent, are the continuous person through the child's entire life. you've seen everything, you've got the history. And I don't know yet the school that keeps records adequately enough that, or does handovers adequately enough that a teacher knows all the things that a parent knows about their child. You can't, you know, you've got 20 something kids in your class, and if you're at high school, you've got a lot more kids that you're responsible for. So I always, I couched it in terms of, I really hope that we have a great relationship working together. I'm really excited and looking forward to the opportunity to work with you and my child to ensure they have a really great year at school. This is what I know from the past, and this is what I know works. This is what I know will cause us difficulties, and they're usually really happy to have that information it's gonna make their life easier, you know? I didn't see myself as being the difficult parent. I did say once to a school principal, look, if you don't give us this support, I'm gonna turn into the difficult parent, because I'll be sitting outside your office at least once a week or once a fortnight with a problem that needs solving, and it'll be your job to fix it.

Louise White: 17:02

Across all the literature on parental advocacy in schools, we know that the best outcomes come for children whose parents are advocates for their children, who feel confident in doing that And even in my research I found that schools often know that parents are the biggest supporters, especially during transition. That definitely was a finding of my research that it is the family and parents who are the biggest advocates. So please don't feel reluctant to have that conversation. You're not"that parent". There is no such thing as"that parent". You are your child's advocate and there's no better advocate than you. And teachers know that. I would've loved to have 15 minutes with Tiffany before I had her child just to save me the three weeks it was gonna take to work it out. Teachers do want to know that. Please don't feel afraid. You're not"that parent"."That parent" doesn't exist

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 17:50

That parent does sometimes exist though, Louise. Especially if we carry trauma and our child has been really hurt by that, then you've got an angry parent, you've got a mistrustful parent, you've got a parent relationship with staff, has been broken or damaged in some way, and that is challenging and that can come across as"that parent".

Leisa Reichelt: 18:11

I think the other thing that I reflect on is that sometimes it can be one thing to talk to the teacher and then different thing to talk to the school. Right. and, schools, they're massive big production lines, aren't they? Right. They've got a lot of things to balance and not a lot of resources and a lot of very busy burned out people who really don't need extra levels of difficulty to be added to their everyday. And I appreciate that. I also think that, it's not uncommon for teachers to think that you might have a more subjective view of your child. And we know that how our child's perceived at school and how they behave at home can be really different as well. If you are a parent who has interacted with your school and not necessarily always had the, oh, I'm so glad you're coming to us and talking about this and you're getting more of the look, they're fine. It's no big deal. Especially in those early times, before we're at the failure point, before the wheels totally come off. Because what we would love is for these kids to be able to get support before things get really bad. I think that's the thing. And to encourage parents to try to reach out and feel confident having those conversations when things aren't terrible before they get terrible. Because I look back, that's what I wish I'd done, but I also feel as though I was rebuffed on a couple of occasions because it's like, he's fine. You don't need to worry. We've done this a million times, step back and let us do our thing.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 19:36

And I would say to both educators and parents, don't wait till there's a problem to have a connection between the two of you. When you're in distress and your child is in distress, and sometimes our children are in really severe distress, our nervous systems are heightened, we sometimes don't think clearly. We sometimes respond in an angry way. So make sure you've got that foundation of a connection, of a just reach out and say, hi, this is me. This is my child. This is what's worked before. This is what doesn't work. I just wanna give you the heads up. This is how you can contact me if you notice things. And I have noticed that sometimes things don't go well and I will communicate with you. That's my role as a parent to let you know when I'm seeing that there's a problem coming up. I always write. that introductory letter at the beginning of the year as soon as I know who the teacher is. I also give updates at the end of every term or whenever there's a problem. I'll communicate, you know, I'm noticing increased distress about this. If I know what it is. I'm noticing this at home, you may not be aware

Leisa Reichelt: 20:48

Okay, so I'm getting a sense that the recommendation is to, as far as possible, communicate through the classroom teacher rather than to the leadership team of the school and have that teacher advocate on your child's behalf

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 21:05

Yes.

Leisa Reichelt: 21:05

And then if you are a parent who is not able to do school drop offs and picks regular emails can be a good way to do that.'cause like, again, I hear tell of teachers complaining about all the emails they get from parents, but that's,

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 21:20

remember that teachers are busy. and so you know save the communication for the important stuff.

Leisa Reichelt: 21:28

Hmm.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 21:28

you just need to make that connection, I think. And they'll often give you, you know, a, a, a parent teacher interview spot early in the year. think that it's really helpful to have that connection before, not to wait, several weeks into the year because there can be some really critical stuff that needs to communicated quite early on.

Leisa Reichelt: 21:48

All right, so let's recap then. The top tips for folks who are facing down a K to five transition in the coming months.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 22:00

Have communication strategy. Think ahead. Communicate what's worked in the past and what hasn't worked. And, the importance of being known as well. I think those would be my top five. Would you add anything to that?

Louise White: 22:16

Yeah I would add the word proactive and and just know that as a parent there's little things you can do yourself So we for example throughout the whole summer holidays we keep driving past the school. Every time we're in the car we drive past the school and remind ourselves, this is the school, there's the gate We keep that familiarity going. And talking to the school about can they give you some resources to use over the holidays. So can they give you a photo of the teacher for next year. I've used Google Maps to print out a bird's eye view of the school and we've played Peppa Pig in the playground in the school during the summer holidays to get us ready to go back. How can you keep that familiarity going. And I guess that fits under proactive a little bit You know we're gonna take some proactive steps here so that you don't forget what school is cause six weeks is a long time to not be in a place and then you're suddenly back.

Leisa Reichelt: 23:04

And then all those comms, those proactive communications are to the current classroom teacher to try to get that connection with next year's teacher sooner rather than later.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 23:14

The other thing I'd add, Leisa, is it's also about thinking about how much energy it takes for a young person to do something new and making sure that we are not double loading them so that we're creating space in their lives around these times of transition too. I used to always say, if your child's starting a new school, maybe pull back on the swimming lessons and sporting commitments and have some downtime and do things that help nervous systems rest and restore and reset.

Leisa Reichelt: 23:45

Excellent tip. Alright then what about those lucky folk who have got kids who are about to transition from primary school into high school? And I know schools do try to help all the kids start to get ready for that transition,

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 24:00

I've done this three times with my kids. I think a lot of the same stuff applies about being known and communicating and getting that connection. When your child grows up into a teen. We need to transition from doing the advocacy for them to developing capacity to self-advocate, in the moment and, more broadly and generally. And so I say to families. I think it's really important that even when they're in primary school, we start to consciously talk to them about advocacy and about self-advocacy and self knowledge about what works for me and what doesn't work for me. And use language about what helps me feel safe and what helps me be my best self at school. And I use a gradual release model when I'm talking to parents about this to say first off, our young person needs to watch us doing advocacy. So you need to start inviting your child to observe you advocating and having conversations with teachers. Now, it's helpful if your teacher knows that you are doing this so that they don't behave in a really scary way. So observing and then watching the way that mum or dad does it. And then the next stage is kind of scripting this sort of conversation you have with your child about what they need to talk to the teacher about, and how will we talk to the teacher, what will we say? And some coaching. So I'll come with you and you'll say this, and if you lose your words, I'll step in and provide support. And we're gradually moving through developing confidence so that eventually they can do it themselves. It's called a gradual release model. It's if you've already started that before they get to high school. But, the expectation is that young people in high school are gonna be a lot more independent. It happens so suddenly this switch, lots of our young people who are carrying a high stress load they need support with this for longer before they become independent self-advocates. It's really hard work if you have to advocate with each teacher in high school, and it's much easier if you have a learning diversity coordinator or a year level coordinator, or a wellbeing coordinator who can have those conversations with all the teachers, and convey information to all the teachers. You still have the one-on-one conversations with teachers, by email or in face-to-face meetings, but there should be one person who's responsible. If you've got a young teen who's vulnerable in any way, who's likely to have a poor transition experience just because they're carrying a high stress burden.

Louise White: 26:44

Yeah I would add to that because we're on this journey now the very first thing I did even at my son at when he went to the interview at the school was I actually had a letter from his psychologist that had recommended strategies for what could be useful for him through the transition. But also I would really encourage parents and schools not to think of the transition just as from point A to point B It's the ongoing support that's required. So we had a letter ready and we gave that letter to the school at the interview. Then it was a reaching out to me actually They reached out to me so we had a meeting and we discussed what was feasible for the school. He's having extra visits to the school. So they often do the usual transition days where they take the whole cohort but he's actually getting I think two or three extra visits and one of them's a really fun visit. It's a scavenger hunt and you know they they're making it really fun He's seen the place he can go when he's not feeling regulated and ready. He's seen that place. He already feels comfortable in that place. So it's that, I'm gonna say my P word again, proactive. He's feeling ready because these steps have been taken now. So that all came from reaching out and being prepared as a parent Like I'm I'm coming to this party and I want you to see that I'm supportive of my child and I wanna support you and let's work together. So it's very early days but so far he's gone off today and he was he was happy to go to to one of these transition days So to me that's a huge win.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 28:11

That contact starts the year before. We don't wait. It starts the year before. And it might happen in the way of visits to school. It might happen in the way of, a one-on-one with a homeroom teacher or, learning diversity coordinator so that they feel safe. We're building safety and connection. I sometimes use a resource, supporting families with this and my own daughters use this resource by, Lori Desautels called 2x10. The instructions are really simple. It's this idea that over two weeks, every day a teacher will have a two minute conversation about a topic that's of interest to your and show interest in something that they're interested in. it builds this lovely connection, this warm regard where a teacher's showing interest asking questions and showing interest. It's not rocket science, but the experience of the child's nervous system is up. This teacher likes me, you know, they, they see me and they're interested in me. And that just promotes that sense of safety. Our kids feel really vulnerable, I think, because of past experiences of feeling unsafe or, stressed at school. So it's really helpful for them to feel connected and liked by people. They're much more likely to seek out support if they feel safe with the staff.

Leisa Reichelt: 29:39

So I have a child who, I have two who have transitioned to school, one did okay. And the other one. less well. The one that did less well was the one where we did the most transition preparation. There was a learning support team. We had lots of Zooms with them. and they gave me to feel as though they had everything entirely under control. And in retrospect, it was a lot of talk and not a lot of actual material support. For us, pretty much in week one, it became clear to me that they hadn't really done anything to help and support. I look back and I just like, ugh, I just should have, I should have been so much more demanding, but I know what to demand now. I didn't know what to demand then. I was very beholden to their expertise and they were very willing to tell me that they had a lot of expertise. How can other parents not fall into the trap that I fell into?

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 30:43

I dunno, you, stuff happens sometimes, Leisa, but as you were speaking, I just remembered one of the things that I often say to families is if your child has a Educational Learning Plan at primary school, get it updated before the end of the year and have one of the goals to have a positive transition and list all of the things you think would make for a good transition. It's in writing. The primary school signs it and says, this is the advice. You've got something in hard copy to go back to and say, well, look, we agreed to this, this is what was advised and we agreed that this would happen. You sometimes do have to fall back on written documents and say, Hey, can we pick up the pieces here? it's helpful if people can say Sorry, because stuff happens.

Louise White: 31:36

I think having it written in the document by the primary school I would say one thing that's been really super supportive for us in this transition is that the primary school have actually kind of taken charge of it because it is in his plan. I made the initial contact with the school and I've had conversations with them but the management of these extra visits it's all been done between the schools and that means that like Leisa I'm sorry you went through what you went through cause your cup's empty but I don't have to drain from my cup because there's other people who are doing it for me right now. And my indicator of whether that's been successful will be his mood this afternoon. So I've got a good measure. And that's probably really great advice to get it in that plan Yeah

Leisa Reichelt: 32:19

So things that I, looking back on, wish that I would've known upfront. And again, maybe just, I'm an idiot for having thought about this beforehand, but other people can learn from my lack of foresight, just organising a locker. It's a skill, right? And some of our kids don't have that skill at the best of times. And when they're overwhelmed, they have even less of that skill. That whole thing of being able to know where to go. Be able to time when you need to leave to get there. My little fellow, carrying heavy things around was just exhausting for him. But he had to carry all of his heavy things around because he didn't have the wherewithal to work out what he needed to take with him and what he could leave behind. And he was so worried about not having what he needed that he just carried the whole lot around. So by the end of the day, he was exhausted. Who sits down with a kid and helps them think about how to organize? Tiffany does. It just never occurred to me that that was a thing that I should be preparing my child for. But that like a tiny thing was a massive thing for him.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 33:24

Learning to read a timetable and, work out what you're gonna need. There's a lot of executive function skills there,

Leisa Reichelt: 33:31

Right?!,

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 33:32

so just on lockers, a couple tips and managing stuff. The first thing about lockers, often our kids to use combination lock for the first time in their lives. Go get the lock. If the school dispenses the lock, then you are not supposed to provide them yourself. Go and get the lock in December and practice over the holidays using it. Your young person's gonna be able to show everybody else how to use their lock on the first day. I would suggest asking the school if you can choose a locker or have a locker assigned before the school holidays so they know where locker is, and so they get a say in whether their lockers up high, down low, at the end or in the middle, near a doorway or not near a doorway. And just a thought about those sorts of things and how those, the sensory aspects of the location whether somebody's gonna be reaching over you or not, or, how all of that feels. you've got some choice. Then in terms of managing stuff, they will give them some support in learning how to read their timetable, but often not until the first week of school, and that'll happen in the homeroom. You can colour code things, these, folders with the zip around where you can put everything inside a folder with a zip. If you get a red folder for maths and a green folder for English or humanities or whatever, and you put a set of pencils and everything they need into these little zip up things, then all they have to do is grab the folder the end of the lesson zip it all back up. I think another thing is, knowing what to bring home when it's often a real big challenge too, and having duplicates of things. A lot of schools use online textbooks now, so you just need to make sure you've got your device with you.

Leisa Reichelt: 35:24

But then also making sure that you as a parent have got access to knowing what's expected as well.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 35:29

The schools have all of that online now. So you can log in, a parent can log in and see what's gonna happen that week in the class. But they often don't give parents much training on how to use the system. And I think it's, it's reasonable to ask, given that you're gonna be providing some extra executive function support to a stressed young person, to ask for some extra support yourself in navigating your way around that system. So ask for it if you need it.

Leisa Reichelt: 36:00

it might sound stupid, but just expect that you're going to have to do a lot of this executive function support for your kid. Because you'll hear a lot from the school system saying, this is the time for the child to step up and do this and do that, and they're gonna be independent and, you know, they shouldn't be relying on mom and dad anymore. you just have to ignore all of that basically, and just do whatever you need to do.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 36:20

They often need support for longer.

Leisa Reichelt: 36:22

I had a very stressful, busy, full-time job at the time as well. So I actually didn't really have capacity to do what was needed, but that's a whole other thing. The other thing that I really, really wish that I knew very early on is that kids don't have to do every single assessment or they don't have to do all of every single assessment, and the world won't end if they don't do that. We didn't find that out until everything was hitting the fan. Right. And if I'd have known that from the beginning and we could have gradually worked up and built up the expectations around assessments and work, I think that would've gone so much better for us. But instead it had to hit a crisis. And then they're like, oh, well what assessments would you like to do? It's like, what do you mean? This is the conversation we can have? I had no idea. And you know, again, maybe this is just me being embarrassingly ignorant, but

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 37:12

You're managing a nervous system and energy and how much energy and what nervous system state the young person's in, and you can ask for any kind of adjustment that's gonna help keep them in a state of functional capacity. They can be graded only on the work they submit. Unless they're in the final years of school and trying to complete a certificate at the end of year 11 and 12. And we need to remind schools that they have a duty of care to reduce stress so that we protect mental health. Because when they are chronically stressed, mental health starts to suffer. And then we really struggle to get to school. By the time they stop coming to school, often they've been distressed for a long time.

Louise White: 38:02

Yeah I think I would add to that as well. In some of the research I'm currently doing, homework has shown up as a big stressor. I know of schools that have written into plans that students don't have homework and those students are okay That's something we can do to reduce that stress know that the child can come home and decompress which is what they need to do. The other thing I would add is thinking back to that concept of intolerance of uncertainty. The first time of doing something can be really tricky. I remember when I started high school and I I just think back now and I think if I just experienced drop off for the first time before it was the first time. So you know we are doing little things like I'll pick my son up a little tiny bit early from school and we drive to the high school and we drive through the drive through pick up zone so that it's not the first time when he has to do it. As an autistic person once I've done it the first time I'm like yeah I'm sweet. But in the lead up to that first time, goodness me like the world's ending But then I've done it and then it's like oh no I've got it That's good

Leisa Reichelt: 39:00

And there are so many first times

Louise White: 39:02

So many! The first week is just a series of first times. New teachers, new classmates If you're in a school where they move them around different class like it's just so many firsts. So if there's any of those firsts that you can envisage and kind of take away as a first that gives them more capacity to navigate the actual firsts

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 39:21

it's not ridiculous to ask to go on a tour of the toilets at school.

Louise White: 39:26

No

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 39:26

a toilet that feels comfortable to you.

Louise White: 39:28

Yeah

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 39:29

go to the toilet at school.

Louise White: 39:31

Oh even today my son is going to go to the tuck shop with the big kids. The big kids are gonna be there and he's gonna learn how to use the tuck shop because that's you know you think imagine if you never get tuck shop because you can't do it that first time. I'm really grateful that all these things are happening for him because that's one first that we've now taken away

Leisa Reichelt: 39:50

Two weeks into my son's year seven was a school camp.

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 39:54

Why on earth do they do that to us? They put it in the first couple weeks. It happened at my kids' high school too. Dreadful.

Leisa Reichelt: 40:01

yeah, they do it because they want the kids to bond together as a year group. I kind of feel like school camp could be a whole other episode really, couldn't it?

Louise White: 40:09

Yes, we need an episode on school camp.

Leisa Reichelt: 40:12

I understand the rationale behind it from a neurotypical point of view, but getting them through those two weeks and then school camp, you must be kidding. Yeah. It's intense. We are pretty much at the end of our time together. I wonder, Louise, was there anything that you think is really important in the context of transitions that we haven't covered so far? Anything from the research that you wanted to make sure we're aware of?

Louise White: 40:38

The message I wanna get across to parents is that you are your child's advocate. No one in the world loves that child more than you. In some cases you are their voice because their voice is not being heard. All the research says that you are the best chance your child has of having those good outcomes. And you have a right to be in there and asking for your child to have their needs met. There is no wrong in that.

Leisa Reichelt: 41:04

Tiffany, any final thoughts from you?

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 41:06

We know that transitions often lead to School Can't, and precipitate School Can't experiences. And sometimes they make it through much of that first year after a transition, but the energy just runs out and the scars start to form towards the end of that year or just going into the next. The honeymoon period's over and they realize they just can't sustain the energy. Hindsight is such a cruel thing when you know after the fact that you should have maybe played your cards differently, done it differently. Do look with softer eyes and be compassionate for yourself and also for your child. If it doesn't go well, don't ignore signs of distress for too long.

Leisa Reichelt: 41:53

But do ignore a lot of those very generic messages about how this is the time for your kid to become much more independent and you should step back and let them thrive. Like I,

Tiffany Westphal (she/her): 42:02

Yeah.

Leisa Reichelt: 42:02

Be ready to be the extra bit of prefrontal cortex that they don't have access to just yet.

Louise White: 42:09

One of the words that seems to be being used a lot at the moment is resilience I've had that word said to me. He needs to be resilient. My response has been, how do you teach resilience? I've been a teacher for a long time and I don't know how to teach it. I know how to support someone so that they have their needs met so that their capacity is greater so that they are more likely to be able to navigate challenges. But I don't know how to teach resilience. And when you phrase it like that, it makes people realize we just don't make someone resilient. It's not possible. You put them in an environment where they're able to face challenges more effectively because their needs are met. And when you phrase it like that they need to be independent.

Leisa Reichelt: 42:51

it's almost like you need to teach them how to make sure that they have the conditions for their needs to be met so that they can be resilient. Mm. Fantastic. All right, Are there any resources that we should be pointing people to that might be helpful?

Louise White: 43:07

I think the I CAN Network produced some pretty lovely stuff about transition to high school That would be a resource I would look at if you have an autistic child.

Leisa Reichelt: 43:16

Thank you both so much for your time and experience and expertise today, Tiffany and Louise. Really grateful for your time.

Louise White: 43:23

It's a pleasure Thank you.

Leisa Reichelt: 43:25

I really hope you found that conversation helpful and that you feel informed and confident to help support the young person in your life through their upcoming transitions. And particularly to engage with the school to ensure that they are also giving all the support that can make such a huge difference for our young people. I have put a link that explains the 2x10 method that Tiffany described, as well as a link to the I CAN Network for their fantastic resources on transition to high school for autistic students. If you have found our podcast helpful, please do take a moment to subscribe or give us a rating or review. This makes a huge difference in helping us get the podcast in front of more people who have School Can't kids, who haven't yet found our community and all the information that we share. If you have some feedback for us, a suggestion for a future topic or speaker, or perhaps you've been inspired to share your own lived experience story, please drop me an email to schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com I would love to hear from you. If you're a parent or carer in Australia and you're feeling distressed, remember you can call the Parent Helpline in your state or reach out to Lifeline on 13 11 14. A link with the number for Parent Helpline is in the episode notes. Thank you again for listening, we will talk again soon. Take care.