Two Taps and Friends
Two Taps and Friends is a long-form conversation hosted by Defense and Litigation Attorney/Father/Husband Daniel Rosenberg with friends and guests from all walks of life. Everyday people talking everyday issues.
Two Taps and Friends
Dye, Golburgh & Rosenberg | Operation Epic Fury: Is It in America’s Interest? #65
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Host Daniel Rosenberg brings back his favorite panel — attorneys Michael Dye and Lloyd Golburgh — for a candid, unfiltered conversation on the escalating Operation Epic Fury. The three explore Iran’s shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz, Trump’s ultimatum, Hezbollah’s role in Lebanon, demands to halt uranium enrichment, proxy conflicts, and the hard questions surrounding U.S. foreign policy, alliances, lobbying influence, and possible paths forward. Maps, history, and honest disagreement included.
⏰ Timestamps ⏰
00:00 🎬 Teaser
00:55 🗺️ Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon: Mapping the Battlefield
02:03 ⚠️ Iran Rejects Ceasefire: Trump’s Ultimatum on Uranium & Hormuz
04:04 ⛽ The Strait of Hormuz Crisis: Oil, Mines & Alternative Routes
06:42 🪖 Marines Deployed: Is There a Clean Exit Strategy?
09:39 🇮🇷 Underestimating Iran: Missiles, Geography & Defensive Strength
13:36 💰 Lobbying Realities: AIPAC vs. Qatar & Saudi Funding
18:55 🛳️ The USS Liberty Incident: Accident or Something More?
28:18 🤝 Israel’s Influence on U.S. Policy: Strategy, Votes, Money or Values?
36:53 🔚 Final Thoughts with Michael Dye & Lloyd Golburgh
Is Trump’s firm stance on Iran and the Strait of Hormuz a necessary demonstration of strength, or does it risk pulling America into another prolonged conflict?
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You're again now in talks with Iran about Iran. You're trusting these scumbags to do what? It's going in circles.
SPEAKER_00Donald Trump gave an ultimatum for the Iran to open the straight over moose. And it goes back to the rules of the playground. If you don't don't set the ultimatum, because the the person is gonna they have to blow through the ultimatum.
SPEAKER_01Right. Or else they're gonna look weak. Iran still maintains they have the inalienable right to enrich uranium. And the United States, this was the first time I heard this today, Steve Whitcoff in the interview said that the United States is demanding not only that they cease their enrichment of uranium, but turn over their nuclear material to us.
SPEAKER_02You know, you could like flame the top of these things, but you still have the roots that are growing there. And until you get boots, and I hate to say this because nobody wants U.S. boots on the ground, but some form of boots on the ground, I don't know how this is solved. I don't know if there's a safe way out right now. Attorney Michael Dye. Hey Danny. Attorney Lloyd Goldberg. How you doing?
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Two Taps and Friends. Grab your favorite drink, get comfy, and let's dive into another episode of Two Taps and Friends.
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to Two Taps and Friends. I'm the host of the show, Danny Rosenberg. Today I have my favorite panel back on. I have attorney Michael Dye. Hey Danny. Attorney Lloyd Goldberg. How are you doing? We're back and we're tackling uh the uh we're gonna continue talking about this uh Operation Epic Fury that's going on because that's still going on and then and and and it's escalated in the region. Um it already escalated with some of the neighboring countries got bombed, but there are talks now that Saudi Arabia is getting involved in the side of the U.S. Um Hezbollah, Lebanon, and in Lebanon, Hezbollah launched uh attacks on Israel. And and for the viewers and listeners that don't know, Hezbollah is a is a proxy of the Iranian governor, another terrorist group that these scumbags fund. They scum, they they they fund Hamas, Boko Haram, the Houtis in Yemen, and Hezbollah, namely in in Iran. And Hezbollah, we talked about them a little bit, is the largest you know independent army that's not technically part of a country in the world. Um and they've been launching attacks from um from uh from from Lebanon into Israel. So Israel has now gone into Lebanon. Um and when they're say people say occupy, it's it's bullshit. They've pushed back because the Hezbollah is notoriously in the southern part of Lebanon. Let's pull up the map of the Israel-Lebanon border, first of all. Let's show that for the viewers and for everybody to see. Dan, whenever you're ready. So if you look, this is the top, the northern Israel, and this is Lebanon on the top there. The Hezbollah tends to be from the green marked areas down. That's kind of their area. So Israel's now gone into that green area trying to push back Hezbollah. Um, Hezbollah is a very dangerous group. Can we show some clips of what these guys look like? They're literally, they're not loose terrorists that are that are fighting in street clothes. This is these guys looking like they're giving Nazi salutes, which is pretty uh appropriate for these guys. Um and they're very organized, they're uh uh uh a trained military who are fully funded by Iran, and they're a problem, and they've been a problem, and Israel kind of hit them with a big blow with the beeper incident. Um, but that's now where Israel's focus on it, and and then and then on the Iran front, there were uh I'm turning to you guys, apparently there were some ceasefire talks, but Iran has now rejected those talks, from what I understand. So you bring me up to speed on what you know, Mike.
SPEAKER_00Okay, um yeah, I'll have heard uh recently, uh it's more of the same mostly, but Donald Trump gave an ultimatum for the Iran to open the straight over moose, and I think that's in two days, is when his ultimatum expires, and there were ceasefire talks, but uh Iran has said no. Um I don't know what exactly the sticking point is. Um, from what I heard, Iran was okay with stopping uh the enrichment of uranium, but that that's the only new thing I've heard from their perspective. Um so two days left to open the Strait of Hormuz or or what? Yeah, I mean, that's the issue, and I'll turn to you too, Lloyd.
SPEAKER_02But like I the you're again now in talks with Iran about in your uranium, you're trusting these scumbags to do what we're going in circles. Yeah, Steve Whitkoff uh gave an interview today.
SPEAKER_01Okay, tell me what you say. He said that he basically repeated the same thing that he said the other day after they you know got tired of the negotiations and said this isn't working, that Iran still maintains they have the inalienable right to enrich uranium. And the United States, this was the first time I heard this today, Steve Whitcoff in the interview said that the United States is demanding not only that they cease their enrichment of uranium, but turn over their nuclear material to us. So it looks like this is gonna be an impasse. Right. I mean, there's no way they're gonna do that. At least uh at least we sit here now. I know that in in line with what uh Michael just said, uh Trump, you know, removed sanctions on some Iranian oil and allowed it to be sold, billions of dollars worth. So there could be some maneuvering going on, you know, from an economic perspective in the background. They did something too, right? They g he talked about a gift that was given to the Hezbollah. He let non-combatant ships go through. Okay. And and and he did, but what about what is the no no, they that was the gift that they gave to the United States, allowing non-combatant ships to travel through the Strait of Hormuz. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Dan, can you put up the photo of the entire Middle East? And we don't need the Hezbollah photo anymore. Thank you. Um so as we show the Strait of Hormuz is like the the critical piece that borders on Iran in a certain area where most of the oil is getting moved out. So they just completely shut that down, right? And they're only allowing what are they, they were allowing some of China stuff out, weren't they? Right. Anybody not American or Israeli? Anybody not American going Israeli going out. But do are we are we moving our oil through there as well? We only get like 20% of our oil through there, right? What's the what's the story with the oil? That I can't answer.
SPEAKER_00Michael is you see on the south side of uh Saudi Arabia down by Yemen, there's another strait down there that uh we can move oil out of, and also what it what's that place where you go from Saudi?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And what about Qatar? And I guess we can just transport it and then go down that strait.
SPEAKER_00I think that would probably be a little bit cost prohibitive, but I know that they can uh move it down uh to the south side of Saudi Arabia and come out by Yemen or go up, uh I forgot what I'm drawing a blank. What's by the Sinai Peninsula, what's the Egypt the the the little passage that goes through there? Tehran?
SPEAKER_02The Suez Canal. Suez Canal, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_00And the Strait of South. So also you can go ahead and you can take the oil ships to the south and go up through the Suez Canal. Uh Iran did uh threaten any ships that were avoiding the Strait of Hormuz by going to the south, saying that the South Strait down by Yemen is still within the range of their missiles and drones. So I think they I think they've gone ahead and said that they will attack anything going out that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but that's a bullshit there. Listen, the Hormuz, I get it, they can stranglehold that. And apparently we moved assets and military. We're trying to do things to prevent that. Um but yeah, I mean, look, it's a quag. You got a shit show here. And the issue, and look, I turn to you guys now. The big issue is now apparently I I mean we're hearing that uh uh a unit of the of the Marines has been deployed over there, and it's gonna take some time for them to get there. But it goes back to what we were saying. You know, you could like flame the top of these things, but you still have the roots that are growing there. And until you get boots, and I hate to say this because you nobody wants US boots on the ground, but some form of boots on the ground. I don't know how this is solved, you know. But then again, Mike, you say we shouldn't be there. What now? We just pull back and pretend like you know, how would you get out of this? How would you resolve this? Because you've been against this thing.
SPEAKER_00Well, one of the things sometimes you get so far into it that there's no good way out.
SPEAKER_02But um the one thing You first of all, you think they should get out right now.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if there's a safe way out right now. But the thing is, the thing I don't like about what Donald Trump's doing right now, and I'm usually I usually support what he does, is he's given an ultimatum, all right, and saying you have two days to do this or bad things are gonna happen. That's like, you know, remember when you're about to get in the fight in the playground, it would be like, cross this line. I dare you. The line changes too. Yeah, cross this line. This next line. And then the person has to cross the line, or else they look like they're scared of you. So if you're yeah, when you go ahead, I mean, this goes back to the rules of the playground. If you don't don't set the ultimatum, because the the person is gonna they have to blow through the ultimatum, right? Or else they're gonna look weak.
SPEAKER_02Um, how would I get out of there right now? And the ultimatum is for namely, what are they gonna do? Just rain down because he stopped attacking right now, right? We're on a cease uh tentative ceasefire, I guess you want to call it.
SPEAKER_01Is that what's happening? It depends on who you're it depends on who you are listening to. Right, right. On one side, it's you know, he got himself into a pickle, didn't expect this to happen straight of Hormuz. You know, didn't plan ahead, had no exit plan, and then other people are saying that he's trying to buy time to get our troops there. Either way, it's the same argument where it's like, okay, let's do this because I'm Donald Trump and they're just gonna back down. Right. So it seems it appears to be more and more like that.
SPEAKER_02And do you think and do you think that um he didn't know about the Strait of Hormuz? Are you one of those people that says that they just didn't anticipate that they would shut down the Strait of Hormuz?
SPEAKER_00I don't think that they I think that they didn't anticipate that it would be successful. Why? It's not that hard to do. Well, it it's uh, you know, you they have to lay mines. All right. We're it seems like we're pretty surprised that they haven't run out of missiles yet. All right. So I I think we just really underestimated Iran's defensive capabilities.
SPEAKER_01And and what you're saying, and the size of Iran geop geographic. Oh my god, it's a monster. And in terms of where they can store missiles, which is all they've been doing, is building and storing missiles, right, for the last 50 years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if you see what what Hamas did in Gaza in how many years? In 15 years, 20 years, 20 years, these guys have been doing it since 79, right? Without without any oversight.
SPEAKER_01Right. In Gaza, they had to do it underground.
SPEAKER_02How are they physically shutting this down? Are they just threatening to shoot it? Or what do you mean, landmines? What are they doing? Explain it for the listeners and viewers that are unsophisticated. I'd not unsophisticated, just not knowledgeable about this.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if they've actually uh laid mines, but they, you know, then it's just like landmines, but they're in the sea. And so you've got a mine that'll be floating like 30, 40 feet underwater, and when your your ship goes by it, then the magnetic pull pulls the mine over to the ship and detonates it. So uh, you know, they can they can put uh like a minefield out in the Strait of Hormuz. The other thing that they could do is uh just fire missiles at any ship that wants to go through that. Yeah, but have they done that yet?
SPEAKER_02Because it's shut down now. Is it shut down based on threats?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. Okay. I don't think they have gone ahead and shot at anything. It's just that people weren't willing, like the private companies weren't willing to take their ships through there because they're told uh if they go through, they're gonna get sunk.
SPEAKER_01And I, you know, and I'm not saying that the United States doesn't have more leverage because, you know, if you listen to Caroline, what's her name, you know, we're gonna unleash more hell, you know, or bigger hell. Who knows what what all that means? But didn't the United States sort of lose some leverage when Qatar said to Trump, you know, you better make sure that those Iranian gas fields don't get destroyed because then Iran is gonna destroy Qatar's gas fields. I feel like we lost leverage there. Right. You know, I think that's what made Trump back down when Qatar got on the phone and said, yo, you know, Iran's gonna destroy our gas fields, make sure Netanyahu doesn't blow up Iran's. So I I I'm concerned.
SPEAKER_02The problem is the players involved, and like you're dealing with the Middle East, and I'm not gonna sit here and knock, but these Arab leaders, like, uh not a lot of them are to be trusted. I hate to say it. They have their own interests, they like to show hands here, they showed you. I think the Gulf states, I mean, I'm not sure. The Gulf states seem to be on a trend the right way, but Qatar too. I Qatar, I don't trust Qatar as far as they're they're the ones putting all this propaganda out, they're the ones funding a lot of shit that's driving all this anti-Semitism and this like anti-US interest.
SPEAKER_01They're just scumbags. Right. Tucker Carlson, like come on, you know. But what were you saying? Sorry. No, and I was I was I don't even remember now what I was saying, actually. Yeah. Um but yeah, saying about the you were talking about the Gulf states. Oh, yes. I saw an interview yesterday with a foreign minister from the United Arab Emirates, a female, she's amazing, smart, uh, very well prepared. Yeah, they're good. UAE, I like she was I really enjoyed watching her speak, and she basically said that the Gulf states have had enough of Iran, they are done with Iran, and that they all are prepared to go to war with Iran if they have to. Right. It was really encouraging.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, I mean, it's interesting to see, and now here and now the worst part of all this, and I look, this is gonna play out the way it's gonna play out, but like listening to the pundits and the podcasts and right, the anti-Semitism and the Israel, and and it's it drives me fucking insane. The same people that say that Trump won't listen to anybody, he doesn't follow any laws, he does what he wants, the same sentence will go say Netanyahu is running. Some shithead I went to high school with. I'm not gonna name his name, but I fucking unfollowed him, you idiot. But he fucking posts on his Facebook page, and this kid's notoriously a dumb fucking high school, and all of a sudden he's a political pundit and fucking he's an idiot. He puts this war will end when Netanyahu wants to end it. This fucking douchebag, I think he's a cook and fucking somewhere a chef. I don't know, he's a chef, but fucking idiot. Like he who what do you even know about Israel? The guy knows one Jew probably his whole life, me, and I haven't lived there in 30 fucking years. Right. And he's commenting based on what? Theo fucking Vaughn? Like, right, I I can't, I can't, dude. It drives me nuts. Netanyahu is telling Trump what to do. Right. As if anybody. Look, he's good at it because he wants to say something of this fucking thing.
SPEAKER_01As if anybody besides Melania, perhaps. I don't think Melania has shit to say on him either. No, she she she could looks like she could be pretty mean. I wouldn't mess with her either. I wouldn't have to fucking Eastern Slavic movement either. Just to think the idea that Trump does anything that anybody else tells him to do that he doesn't want to do is is delusional.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like the whole US, he's gonna do whatever Israel wants because what Israel has what on the US? Intel? Right. Like, come on, dude. You know, like come on. And all the oil comes from all these other bastards, you know, not Israel. What's your thought? Go ahead. Say some stupid shit about Israel. You always gotta comment, you know? I'm joking, I'm joking. So what were you thinking about Netanyahu? I know you hate him. I was just thinking about jokes I could make. I don't make the jokes, but you think that Netanyahu is telling Trump what to do?
SPEAKER_00I think he has a large influence over why because there really was no reason for us to get into this. That's your legal argument. Hold on. It's the same war cry that we've been hearing for the last 20 years. You know, Iran's gonna have nukes next week. And in this, you think he just fooled Donald Trump? So it but it's always been Netanyahu is the one who's cards.
SPEAKER_02Okay, but you're giving me a different argument. My question is, why would he listen?
SPEAKER_00Why would he listen? I don't know, there is a lot of uh financial benefits.
SPEAKER_02What's the financial benefits? Let's break this down. Ape oh stop. Do you know how much Apex money gives compared to what these other people do? I wish we would like to drop this in the fucking bucket. Correct. This APEC thing is some anti-Semitic trope that people are proud of myth.
SPEAKER_01Let's go ahead. APAC is like the 200 years. Let me ask you for the 50th biggest lobby in the United States.
SPEAKER_02Who do you think puts more money into lobbying? Qatar or APEC? Yeah, probably APEC. Are you having a fucking crazy? I'm gonna Google this shit right now. Hold on.
SPEAKER_01I've done this, I've done this work. All right, hold on, hold on. Let me just tell you something, okay? This is an undisputed fact for anybody that really cares enough to look. Okay, and I'm not again, I'm not talking about the anti-Semites who never will because they don't want to know the truth, but the Arabs give way more money to this country than the Jews do.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's the way more. The places like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, where we go ahead and we're propping up dictators who are like like serial human rights abusers. Yeah, it's in their best interest to give a lot of money because we're keeping their dictator. Yeah, but I didn't I don't hold on. But the why is irrelevant.
SPEAKER_01The why is irrelevant. The fact is what matters because it's the APAC, APAC.
SPEAKER_02APAC gave $100 million in 24. Qatar gave $250 million, Saudi Arabia gave $271 million. Those are two separate, that's just two countries in the Middle East. Oops, a little secret that nobody knows. So he's just forgetting about the 600 million these fucking terrorists are giving him, but APAC has a big influence. Those 7.5 million Jews, 15 million total.
SPEAKER_00You're dealing with the dictator of an oil-rich kingdom giving 250 million dollars comparing to just regular civilians.
SPEAKER_02Civilians, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_01Civilian, successful relevance, Your Honor. What does that have to do with how much money AP, how much influence APAC has on the United States government? It's minuscule, it's stupid, it's dumb argument. Apex, Tolmud, Talmud, APEC, what was the number?
SPEAKER_02This is their catch words.
SPEAKER_01TOMUK, APEC, GUI, USIN the word GUI, people, other people, other people. Uh, what is the number? Like they're 233rd on the list of money given APAC.
SPEAKER_02They're high up in single issue. Where it's a full-time job. That's within these lies. You know what I mean? They're not gonna refute it because they just change arguments. And this is an intelligent person.
SPEAKER_00You go ahead and you have a hundred million dollars given by a group. Now they're gonna this group of uh APAC, I'm assuming, is mostly made up of U.S. citizens? Don't citizens? No, it's both. All it's they're American citizens. It's it's it's American Israeli lobby. So what's going to have more pull with American politicians? The hundred million dollar group who votes here or the dictatorship. Is he out of his mind?
SPEAKER_01Has he seen the Democratic Party?
SPEAKER_02Are you crazy? So do you know how much money Qatar put into the fucking high intellectual university system?
SPEAKER_01I don't know about it.
SPEAKER_02It's but let me look it up.
SPEAKER_00Let me look it up.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, the facts are getting in the way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It gets back to a bigger point than that. And we can take it back to a real easy one. All right, that Israel seems to have a disproportionate effect on American foreign policy. And anytime that's all bullshit.
SPEAKER_02No, I'm sorry. Qatar, $1.1 billion in the colleges last year. $1.1 billion. Right. I'd love to see. You know what Israel's influence is in the American politics? They happen to be in the middle of these fucking psychotic Islamic regimes, and that's all of the intel and geographical fucking uh assistance for the United States. They're their number one safest ally in that region. That's the only influence they have over them. An unnecessary ally. We don't need an ally. Oh, you don't think? No, we don't. I okay. Easy for you to say when you've had it the whole time and you're protected over here. But what happens if you don't have an ally and all these guys that are plotting to do what they're gonna do? And they look, they disrupt one strait and it could send our country into a depression.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's because we should be drilling our own oil. Okay, but that's you're talking a 25-year solution. This is your opinion. That's like European. No, that's a fact. It's like European.
SPEAKER_01Okay, let's you want you want to explore this? Right. If we didn't need if we didn't need uh Saudi oil, right? Or if we didn't want Saudi oil. Okay, let's use it. We want need. Right. So okay, well, let's deal with need. So basically what you're saying is that when you say we don't need anything To do with the Middle East. You're basically saying we can just cut off the Middle East and go about our business here in the United States without not only not getting anything from the Middle East, but not worrying about the Middle East as well from a security perspective.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, pretty much. I don't, I mean, I I think if the biggest problem that we have with the there's a difference between the Saudi people and the Saudi government.
SPEAKER_02You've determined this based on what? Determined this based on the people. How do you fucking know? Okay. You know all the Saudi people? So no, I don't know all the Saudi people. I do, I know a lot of the fucking people not all of them, but I've been in the Middle East and I know the culture pretty fucking well. It's based on the truth intake.
SPEAKER_00Do Saudi people like us or dislike us? I think they all dislike us. Okay. What about the royal family?
SPEAKER_02Probably dislike us, but do business with us. Okay.
SPEAKER_00We're info. There's a difference between the Saudi people and the Saudi family. They have a difference, yes. Okay. So the difference. But you know what they all hate? Jews. And Americans. I think he got it right. The Jews for sure. Right? But go ahead. So there's a there's a difference where Actually, that's not necessarily a big part.
SPEAKER_01That's not not in oh, maybe Saudi Arabia, right. We're not talking about Egypt. I was gonna say in Egypt, Saudi Arabia still, yes. In Egypt, we gotta there's a little bit of, yeah, it's a history shape.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the Saudi government, which is the royal family, yeah, all right, at least uh puts on a show of being friendly to us. Right. The Saudi people don't like us at all. The terrorists that came from the or on the September 11th plane attacks. How many of them were Saudi Arabian? A bunch. Okay. All so you know, that that's the Saudi people. You don't see the royal family hopping on a plane to uh to blow us up, all right? Because the Saudi those Saudi Republicans are.
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, that there's a conspiracy on that too.
SPEAKER_01I'm sure there is. Well, but they that but they but they're about stability too in Saudi Arabia. They're not, you know, they they have stability.
SPEAKER_00They don't give two shits about anybody else.
SPEAKER_02Well, they have money. Well, it has to pass. The whole country has money, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_00So it's not gonna have stability issues. That the average person in the Middle East, when you look at United Arab Emirates, uh Qatar, the there's a big difference between the government and the people who are in charge. But that's everything in the average Joe. I think that the average person, their big issue with the United States, and now there have always been issues. I know where this is going. But we go in there, we propped up Saddam Hussein, who is a ruthless dictator for how long? Right. All right, we're propping up the Saudi royal family, ruthless dictators. Right, right. All right. We have gone in there and we have advanced our own interests, which I don't have any objection to, but we have advanced our own interests at the expense of the people who are there. And I think that if we weren't there saying, look, people in the Middle East have been killing each other at record pace since the beginning of time. Since before US was even formed. Exactly. I mean, they they've been doing they've been doing it, but let them go ahead and kill each other in their own sandbox. We don't have to prop up a dictator, just yeah, but that sandbox, there's oil.
SPEAKER_02That's a big game changer.
SPEAKER_00And there's oil in Alaska.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but we're not drilling in fucking Alaska.
SPEAKER_00Because the caribou dung beetle is so vi is such a fucking caribou.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, I and this this is just my opinion. It's not based on anything necessarily, but I think that at least at least since you know the the five years before the you know the uh 1948, you know, May May 14th, 1948, before Israel became a state, um, and maybe for the five years after, uh, you know, short of those 10 years, I don't think I don't think the American uh government as a whole, whether it be the State Department who never cared for Israel or even the Defense Department gives a flying fuck about Israel. I think everything that the United States does is is for the United States' interest. I don't think that there's some, you know, feeling in our hearts for Israel amongst the American governments. Absolutely not. I agree with that. You have your Christian fundamentalists, right, that are a big voting block, and of course they have their stake in Jerusalem. So that, you know, the the Christian Zionists, right, they have to be considered. But I think at the end of the day, I mean, the Jews are so few in number that they're irrelevant.
SPEAKER_00Listen, let's get let's go back because we're talking about Israel's effect on foreign policy, right? So we're not we're really right on one issue. Let's go back to the uh just this is an easy issue to figure out how Israel has been able to affect at least uh the uh public um the public presentation of United States policy. Let's go back to the USS Liberty, all right? Now, every I mean we all know we all know what USS Liberty was. All right, it was a spy ship in the United States that was attacked uh by Israeli planes, they torpedoed the ship. Uh uh and then when people started getting life rafts, they started torpedoing the life rafts. It was an accident. That's not exactly what happened. Okay. No, no, no, let's look this up. They said, all right.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no. I'm not gonna.
SPEAKER_00Every single person who was on that ship that lived said that it was flying an American flag. Every single one, I think it's like 180 something of them left. Every single one will tell you that they were flying an American flag when they were attacked. And the response is well, anybody who says that they were flying an American uh flag is anti-Semitic. Do you are you meaning to tell me that?
SPEAKER_01How about a more logical one? You're telling the spy ship was identifying itself as an American vessel?
SPEAKER_00They were flying an American flag. They were off the coast. They were monitoring.
SPEAKER_02No, no, come on. On June 8th, 1967, during the six-day war, right, right, there was a war. Yeah, which is attacked the USS Liberty, U.S. Navy technical research tip trip, a ship, not a fucking battleship, in international waters off the Sinai Peninsula, killing 34 and wounding 171. Israel stated the attack was a case of mistaken identity, believing the ship was an Egyptian vessel. While some government officially some government officially concluded it was a no, while both governments officially concluded it was a tragic accident, survivors and some U.S. officials argue it was a deliberate attack. For what? Because a spy ship, there was a U.S. flag somewhere on there, the F-16s that attacked it from fucking hundreds of feet of air.
SPEAKER_01Even before we get to that argument, Israel's not attacking the U.S. As smart a man as you are, you know. Hold on. And you you know this without reading any of the history. Wait, let me get this point out because I want you to respond. Without reading any of the history that I have read that he knows, okay, you also have no choice but to agree that the that Israel would not have launched that preemptive strike during the Six-Day War without the blessing of the United States. So why in the world would Israel attack an American ship in the Sinai Peninsula, where the which was, by the way, the epicenter of that war?
SPEAKER_00I can tell you why, but let me back up one second.
SPEAKER_02This is conspiracy. Here's the thing.
SPEAKER_00Every survivor on that ship, including the captain, who got a congressional medal of honor for his actions while under attack on the USS Liberty, every single one of them says that they were flying an American flag, and when the first one burned down or fell down, they put up the the um what's it called, the um ceremonial flag, the huge one. All right, the huge American flag. And they So that just stops every attack. They still came back. The letters on the side of the ship identified it as a United States ship.
SPEAKER_02Let me ask you a question. If a spy ship is coming in, is it very hard for them to put up a U.S. flag and say we're American?
SPEAKER_00Why did they scramble as American uh distress signals? What? Okay, listen.
SPEAKER_02Why did they say now I know why you don't like Israel? We got it. But everybody just knows why you don't like Israel. Okay, well, the bottom line is nobody can answer these questions. And then when people are bullshit. I don't think they need to be answered.
SPEAKER_01First, you have to establish that that they scrambled the American signal. You can't go ahead and read the reports. That's like saying, you know, when will you, you know, go ahead and read the reports. It's all public record. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I'm guessing at this point where they might have scrambled any signals coming off the boat. They don't know what the boat is. So what would be the motive?
SPEAKER_00Public record because what's the motive motive? Because they told uh they told the president that they weren't going to invade uh Syria to take the Golan Heights. And so when They told who? Uh the president of the United States, who was it at the time? Johnson. Israel told them. Yeah. All right. They said that they weren't going to invade Syria and take the Golan Heights. And when they went ahead and here are we talking about 72, 67. No, no, so before Johnson. So Johnson, yeah. And so they told them that they weren't going to take the Golan Heights. All right. And that was that was something that uh our country uh opposed was them taking the Golan Heights. So right before they go ahead and take the Golan Heights, they go ahead and attack the USS Liberty because the USS Liberty was monitoring the communications.
SPEAKER_02Do you know what the the six day do you know that was on Yom Kippur? Yeah. Right, right? The six day was Yom Kippur? No, that was 73. Okay. All right. I don't agree with you. There's no official conclusion that Israel ever attacked the U.S. in any skirmish, in any confrontation. For sure attacked us. No, they didn't, but that was an accident. It was never on purpose. A deliberate attack never happened. Okay. Either way, what does this have to do with your argument that it let me ask you this? Okay, hold on. Hold on. No, no, no. I got your arguments. I'm you were done. All right? Now, no, no, I'm just saying, like, I get it. I I've done this with you for fucking 20 years. We're not going to get anywhere new today. My question to you is if we did what you say, right? We pull out of the Middle East, we drill here, we set the infrastructure up, and in 20 years we have nothing to do with the fucking Middle East. Do you think the United States gives a fuck about Israel?
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Why? Because of seven million Jews that vote out of the fucking two billion people?
SPEAKER_00Half of whom vote Democrats of whom vote vote. Yeah, that's a question I gotta ask you guys about in a minute. But uh the thing is, yes, we do because it's still self-hatred. I already answered your question. Okay, there you go. Yeah. That's like buying an odd out of your BMW. Please like sorry.
SPEAKER_02Whatever. They're made in the US now. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00All right. So at any rate, um, do we still give a fuck about Israel? Yes, we still give a fuck about Israel because we have enough people here that vote, we have enough people here that give money, and on top of that, there is a cultural similarity between us and it's predominantly a Western European.
SPEAKER_01You think that might be why we have an interest there?
SPEAKER_02How many Muslim Americans versus there's a cultural similarity, there's voting, and there's money.
SPEAKER_00It's still we're still gonna be interested. No way.
SPEAKER_01Uh-uh.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Not for long. It's about even six million Muslim Americans, six million is Jewish Americans.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but who have who gives birth at a much greater rate?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Muslims have like five kids each, right?
SPEAKER_01Jews have one kid and they're all popular. And they're not even Jewish anymore. Yeah. They're marrying Christians. So the answer is because we have a much larger Christian Zionist population in this country than we have a Jewish Zionist population. That's the answer to the question. Oh, yeah. And that's a voting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but it's not Israel that's good. Dude, Israel's had this Iran problem since 79. Everybody's had an Iran problem. I understand that, but why now? Now, now Trump just got influenced by Netanyahu unless he saw a real threat.
SPEAKER_00I didn't say it was an imminent problem. I said it's a problem. You did, you're right.
SPEAKER_02Okay, but now he just decides now to do it after all these years. Israel's wanted Iran gone for 79. But now it's they just have this overwhelming influence. Meanwhile, Jews are getting shit on everywhere I look, everywhere I hear comments on this show, Jew. That's the comment. That's the fucking intellectual comment that's like. Jew. Yeah, yeah, they're calling you Jewish too. You're Jewish now, too, by the way. Just so you know. So just so you know, like now all of a sudden that he just has such an influence, it's bullshit. This is a trope pushed by anti-Semitic, the pro-Palestine, the same bullshit argument people.
SPEAKER_01I don't know what to do. It doesn't mean they aren't politically aligned and motivated for that. For sure. So of course, you got you know, you're gonna get two guys in the room that think alike, you know, and you might have certainly that would be the reason, you know, that Netanyahu and the Israelis see this as a a window that's closing. Trump's not looking out for the interest of the Republican Party, you don't think?
SPEAKER_02You don't think he's thinking, oh, come on. I don't think this helps our national. Well, clearly now, because you guys, we thought the Republicans were getting stronger and got their shit together, but you're fucking half of half of which are fucked tarts too. I'm not a fucking Republican. Look at whatever you are. But look at, I'm not you, I'm not you're you're you're consistent. I'll give you that. You're the most steady ship in the United States, too. Okay. Listen to this. But look, you get a Tucker Carlson, you get these conservatives that are fucking just straight Nazis now. That's why the Republican Party is paid.
SPEAKER_01Right. I wish Laura Loomer would stop the Candace Owens uh game where she pretends or she says I have all this information but doesn't give us any.
SPEAKER_00They never do, right? The problem that you have with what's going on, like why did they select now? Well, uh Netanyahu has been saying like saying this shit like a broken record for the last 15 years. Yeah, so why now he says the same shit. So why now? So he gets somebody in office that he can go ahead and will listen to him. Trump? Yeah, Trump will listen to him, whereas everybody else was like, whatever, dude, you're a broken record. Well, that's the point I was making.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so wait, let me get this straight. Biden and Obama, you're saying, were the reasonable heads. Everyone's and Trump is the unreasonable one. You're saying this, Michael Dyes.
SPEAKER_00Every occasionally, occasionally, I will give it Obama credit for saying that. There it is. Well, if it's at the expense of Israel, sure. Why not, right? What was at the expense of Israel? Because nothing was at the expense of Israel. I am telling you. I am not sure.
SPEAKER_01How about the blocking of the uh UN resolution or the the dec uh what was it? He declined on the UN resolution to um uh I guess call them occupied territories. Is that what it was? Was it Trump? Well that I understand that. I agree. We all agree on that. It wasn't what the UN says, it was what a the first president since the formation of the state of Israel to decline to vote on that resolution.
SPEAKER_00And that that's what Obama did. That's that hurt Israel's feelings. Listen, give me a fair. I mean, reputation matters.
SPEAKER_02I I challenge you. If you're gonna talk this much shit, you give international. At least give the respect to come to the country. Right. I don't want to go. I know you don't want to go. But no, if you're gonna run your mouth about Israel, come to the country. Come on. I will pay for your ticket. I will buy your ticket. And even now, as expensive it is, I will buy you a ticket if you come.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like leaving the United States. Okay. Canada is Well, you're an isolationist. Yeah, Canada's. It's like they smoke in malls and shit up there, too.
SPEAKER_02No, but so let me ask you this. You think that Israel has such an influence on Trump that he'll send ground troops now to the fucking Middle East?
SPEAKER_00Well, I don't think he would have, but now he's gotten us into quite a fucking pickle. Well, he knew what he's getting into.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't know. You think he thought he can go there, knock out Iran, and be home? Yes. But but he's not considering the Iranian-enriched there's no you don't think he's gonna put ground troops in. No way. That's a good American president.
SPEAKER_00With the numbers. Agreed. I don't I don't want it either, but ain't happening. With the numbers that they're talking about, like the 82nd Airborne and a couple marine divisions, like that is not ground invasion numbers. Yeah, you could be taking out that Bustille unit or units that are on the ground.
SPEAKER_01It could be there for special forces security, protection, that kind of thing. I don't, but I don't think you're you're sending infantry. No, I I don't see it happening. I know, by the way, I'm not I'm no military expert. I don't know if you're not going to be able to do that. No, I'm not either, but I can tell you that politically it doesn't make sense for any president to do that.
SPEAKER_00The the 82nd Airborne and a couple marines is not enough to send in to Iran and expect them to come home safely. Right. It's just not enough. So I don't think he's preparing for a ground invasion because of the fact that the numbers just aren't sufficient for a ground invasion.
SPEAKER_01Right. Did you hear the uh uh did you see Michael Rappaport's uh Instagram today? Apparently Hassan Piker is the nephew of Sink, what's his name? Chank Yoger? I knew that. I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_02You didn't know that? Oh, yeah, they're on the young Turks, those shitheads together. Okay, I didn't know they were. You like Chen Kogre? Uh he's a dumbass. He's a fucking idiot. Did you see him screaming on Pierce Morgan? Like, he's a fucking ogre. Yeah, you know, he's an ogre. Yeah, yeah, but I mean the issue is still, you know, there's a there's a real issue in Iran. They they knew for a fact they had to get uranium. And here let me ask you this. You're saying the protesters aren't out and aren't doing anything, right? Not that we know of. But they're the bombs are still dropping right now, right? So you think when the bombs are dropping, there's a chance they come out and they can do something on their own? There's a chance I don't think it's gonna happen. We don't even know.
SPEAKER_00I mean So you never know until it happens. But I think there's a blackout.
SPEAKER_01How will how do we know what's happening on the street now? We don't know. There's no internet, there's no phones, there's no self-service. How do we know what's happening?
SPEAKER_00Well, we don't have any reports from like our government would be the first to tell us that hey, they're rioting in the streets, they're taking back their country. This is a success. Right. Nothing like that.
SPEAKER_02But you see the Mossad obviously knows. But do you see the missiles and the artillery they've been using? Of course they do. No shit. The most intelligent, they do everything. Yeah, yeah. Um they're amazing. But you see that the uh the missiles they're using and the artillery and all the stuff that they're using. You say they, which is Iran, Iran, the IRGC. Is it not troubling to you to see how much stockpiling and what they've been doing and the fact that they can launch things and they're now threatening to shoot all the way to Europe? They have stuff that can get to the end of Europe. You don't think they're working on getting to us?
SPEAKER_00Well, okay. But here's the key issue is do they have shit that's capable of getting to us? If no, equals not our problem. So when does it become your problem? When they're getting close to getting shit that's capable of us. How do you know when they're getting close? You think there's an announcement? We we do spy on them a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and we just invaded them. Yeah. Well, we don't. So do you think that there's a correlation, maybe? No. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00No, I I think this was, you know, it's like know your audience. How we when we talk about like selecting juries, and then you select your argument, right? That's appropriate to the people that you even got on your jury. You know your audience. All right. Netanyahu knew his audience. He knew that he could go ahead and oh, and influence Donald Trump. Yes.
SPEAKER_02The guy that like fucking takes a shit while tweeting and and and tweets the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Natanyawa has complete control of. I can't get it. Any influence whatsoever. You don't think he has any influence whatsoever, or no? No. I think Donald Trump gives him influence because he wants something. I think Donald Trump is playing, he's a he's a fucking CEO and he's gonna do deals that make sense for his business. That's the way he's doing business. That's the only way I've ever seen him. I think he's definitely can be an asshole. He says some dumbass things. He's got the emotional maturity of a fucking eight-year-old at times. Okay. Sometimes I sometimes I agree with what he says, but uh, you know, a lot of times I don't. Most of the time he makes me cringe. Yeah, he's a he's cringe, but like I think he's operating as that.
SPEAKER_01I I I have to I agree with you 100%. I think his whole mindset is focused on money and not just his own businesses, certainly his businesses, but I think he wants stability in the world so that the economy can run smooth so that he can continue to make money. That's what I think is his answer.
SPEAKER_02And I think if if you classify him as a narcissist, which could be he could be classified as a narcissist, right? I think that he sees the U.S. as an extension of himself. And he's protecting his own interest.
SPEAKER_01I don't think you can love your grandchildren like I see him love his grandchildren if you're a narcissist.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm not saying a text he has narcissistic tendencies. Let's just say that. Not a textbook sociopathic narcissist. Those are dangerous motherfuckers, you know, and people would say he is, but I think all successful people probably have narcissistic tendencies, but I think that he sees the US as an extension of himself. Yeah. And and all the the the making fun of you can of him, a lot of it's justified, you know, but I just don't see where the leader of a tiny country can influence him like that, you know. Be it a tiny powerful country. You know?
SPEAKER_00You know, it's uh he's been saying the same shit. You have too for the past 30 minutes. But I've been right. And so he's been saying the same shit for the past 15 years, and now he's got a president in there that will bite. The anti-Semitic truth. No, no, but that's the argument that I make. Antisemitic truth? That's just that's a Netanyahu thing. That's not a okay. Look, all Jewish people are not Netanyahu. Who's the Prime Minister of Pakistan? Are you sure?
SPEAKER_02Because we're all being Who's the leader of Pakistan? Fuck, I don't remember. Who's the leader of fucking uh Oman? Do you know the leader of Oman?
SPEAKER_00Uh uh Sheik Mohammed Abdullah.
SPEAKER_02Stop, stop. You know everybody knows Netanyahu. Why do you think everybody knows Netanyahu? Because he's always like he's always on TV. Stop. Give me a few Jews.
SPEAKER_00When's the last time that the the Sultan or whatever of Oman was on American news?
SPEAKER_02No, he's on TV. Nobody gives a shit. He just looks like he looks like another you know Sultan.
SPEAKER_00There's no news, no news there, no Jews, no news. Okay, that's what it that's what it's all about. It's not that it is.
SPEAKER_02Let me ask you, Pakistan's gonna try to help. They want to offer, they want to help. What do you mean? Do you trust Pakistan?
SPEAKER_00The Grady Judd of political fucking I love Grady Judd though. You're an idiot. The safest place in the world is between Grady Judd and a television camera.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. Let me ask you this. Do you trust Pakistan? No. They want to help us. Okay, fuck them. We don't need their help. Yeah, we don't need according to you, you don't need anybody.
SPEAKER_01We do need their help according to our our our tech guys. Because they said that that's where the weapons are coming from, and we can't get close to those. I mean the weapons.
SPEAKER_02Oh, because Pakistan is in control the weapons route.
SPEAKER_01Right. I think that's what they said, and that so that if Pakistan steps in, maybe they cut off those missiles.
SPEAKER_02Israel cut off those missiles. And the only reason Israel's not doing it is because the US won't let them do it. You know, it's an influence on who? Yeah. U.S. on Israel. Yeah, exactly. Okay.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't Ariel Sharone who.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we're back to Ariel Sharone?
SPEAKER_00He's been dead for 15 years. They still have him hooked up somewhere. You know, in his debate with who was the to all the listeners and viewers, thank you. Yeah, the other listeners. Ariel Sharone said, You can you keep telling me that the United States will do this or do that, and I'm telling you that we tell the United States what to do. Oh, and because he said so, that makes it the prime minister. Oh right.
SPEAKER_01Now he's the prime minister. Because Israeli would never boast. Um the other day. Let's end on a real note. Let's end on a real note. The other day, two weeks ago, two weeks ago, apparently Netanyahu went rogue and bombed a portion of those gas fields in Iran. And he got sent to his room by Donald Trump for doing that. So let's talk about who is influencing who.
SPEAKER_00Well, we don't even know if Netanyahu's alive. Oh God.
SPEAKER_02You're on that route? You think he has six fingers in the photo? You're one of those conspiracy guys?
SPEAKER_00It was on a video. He gave a live press conference. What about the him at the coffee shop where his wedding ring disappears at 45 seconds and the coffee he's drinking never goes down?
SPEAKER_02You know what? I saw that right after that whole article about fucking the earth being flat. Change your fucking website. I love you. Anything else? Closing notes besides now that we've done every conspiracy theory? The earth isn't flat. Have we been to the moon, Mike? Do you think we've been to the moon? Do you think we've been to the moon?
SPEAKER_01The government of Lebanon wants Hezbollah out to Yes.
SPEAKER_02I saw that. I saw, by the way, if you speak to the people of Lebanon, they don't like Hezbollah. You know why they don't like Hezbollah? Because it's Iran. And it's that simple. You have anything you want to add about that? Is that Israel too?
SPEAKER_00No, I don't care about Hezbollah. Okay. Okay, here's the whole thing. This is like me not giving a shit about things.
SPEAKER_02How do you think this ends?
SPEAKER_00Final thought. Uh they're gonna open up the Strait of Hormuz again. And the gas prices will go back down. Donald Trump will declare a victory and pull out troops, pull out everybody, not not just stop bombing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the mulahs will remain in place, right? And the Iranian people will suffer. Yeah. That's how it's gonna end. So what came out of this? There'll be no nothing. Nothing. There'll be no regime change. Waste of time. Wow. You know what might come out of this? Hezbollah and Hamas go away, and then there's uh an accord whereby everybody in the in the Middle East makes money.
SPEAKER_02Do you think there's a world where Iran does a real deal where they just stop doing what they're gonna do? No. Alright. Well, at least we all agree on that. Alright. Well, we'll be watching, and we'll be back. So to all my listeners and viewers, thank you for watching. Two taps and friends, we'll keep covering this very hot topic. Um, we asked you guys for your opinion in a post the other day. You guys had a lot of good feedback. I'll ask you again, give us your opinions, try to keep it positive. We know it draws a lot of emotions. You can see all of us yelling at each other here today, but um, you know, try to keep it positive. Tell us what your thoughts are, how you think it's gonna end, if it's gonna end, all that stuff. You know, um, we appreciate listening, we appreciate your opinions uh and we value them. We'll talk about them next episode, too. So thank you all for listening. Uh, please like and subscribe to the channel. Uh, like I say, if you do that, we're able to keep doing this, have a lot of more debates, bring more guests on. Uh, we're everywhere on Instagram, Facebook, on Apple Podcasts. We're everywhere. So, thank you guys for watching, listening. We love you all. We'll see you next time. Goodbye. Cut