Two Taps and Friends

Dan Gamache "Mache" | Laced in Greatness: Custom Sneaker Artist Mache’s Journey in Sneaker Art #68

• Daniel Rosenberg • Episode 68

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Host Danniel Rosenberg sits down with custom sneaker artist Dan Gamache, better known as Mache. From hand-painting his first Air Maxes with supplies from the art store—long before social media—to the pivotal moment when LeBron James posted his custom shoes and added 75,000 Instagram followers overnight, Dan shares the unfiltered story of turning a competitive passion into a thriving creative business.

They explore the early “starving artist” years, the unwavering support of his wife (who helped keep the lights on and even inspired one of his most successful designs), the challenges of pricing unique artwork, managing overwhelming demand, and protecting reputation over two decades. The conversation touches on high-profile collaborations with athletes, brands like Denny’s (the sold-out National Syrup Day shoe), Wu-Tang Clan, NBA/MLB teams, and recent projects including golf shoes.


⏰ Timestamps ⏰  
00:00 🎬 Teaser 
01:48 🌊 The Watercolor Mosh Runner
03:14 💼 Running a Creative Business
04:37 🤝 Collaborations: Athletes, Brands & Corporate Projects
06:30 🏆 Favorite Projects & Reflection
08:52 🔄 The Changing Sneaker Industry
10:48 📱 Social Media, Connection & Operations 
12:45 🛠️ Challenges & Hard Lessons
14:20 👥 Team, Delegation & Reputation – Working with a trusted assistant, family involvement, and why every shoe still carries your name.
15:55 ⛳ New Horizons: Golf Shoes, Wu-Tang Project & Personal Passions – Branching into golf, the black-and-yellow Jets-inspired Wu-Tang shoes, and designing from lived experience.
17:30 🎯 Advice for Young Artists & Designers 

If you were commissioning a custom piece—whether shoes, art, or another medium—what personal story would you want the creator to tell through the design?

#mache #sneakers #footwear #artist #customsneakers #independentartist #sneakerhead #sneakerculture #artistjourney  #creativebusiness #lebronjames #wutang  #artistlife #streetwear    #DesignProcess #Nostalgia #fatjoe #attorney#podcastcommunity #lawyer #realtalk #podcast #stephcurry #StefonDiggs #TheUndertaker #markwahlberg  #therock #shaq  #kobebryant 

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SPEAKER_00

And I saw someone doing custom sneakers in a magazine. And you know, being a natural competitor, I was like, I could do better than that. I was basically just like going to the art store and getting paint and buying some Air Maxes and painting on them. When LeBron James posts my shoes, I go to bed with X amount of Instagram followers and wake up with 75,000 more than I woke up. Wow. You know, I wasn't making money at the time. You know, she was helping pay the bills and taking care of all that stuff. We were living off the dollar menu. And she wanted to do a shoe that was inspired by watercolor. And she wanted it to have every shoe to be different. And we tried to figure out the way to make that happen. It's like we just did a collaboration with Denny's, and we did the first shoe with syrup in the shoes for National Syrup Day. And you know, it was made to be a disruption. Obviously, people were talking about it and got a lot of buzz. But you know, this the shoe sold out in five minutes. But Meth's really big in the gym now and working out. So we I wanted to make sure there was something that he could wear in the gym. Um, and he's a he's a diehard Jets fan. And originally he wanted to do a green shoe. And I was like, if we're doing a Wu-Tang shoe, you gotta do black and yellow.

SPEAKER_02

And every time I look at him, I like him more. A footwear artist and designer, Dan Gamash, aka Mosh. Welcome to the show, my friend.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Two Taps and Friends. Grab your favorite drink, get comfy, and let's dive into another episode of Two Taps and Friends.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome back to Two Taps and Friends. I'm the host of the show, Danny Rosenberg. Today I have a very special guest that I'm honored to have on. Uh, he is probably the biggest shoe designer, a sneaker designer, one of the biggest ones out there today. He's been featured on so many magazines. He's been featured on complex, not just magazines, networks, complex vibe, ABC, CNBC, Hype Beast. He's recently awarded top independent sneaker brand. He is uh a footwear artist and designer, Dan Gamash, aka Mosh. Welcome to the show, my friend.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me. Greatly appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, pleasure to have you, bro. So um I've been following your work. A lot of people follow your work. It's you you're just an amazing artist. But can you tell me a favor for listening viewers that don't know who you are or don't know much about you? Can you give us a background, your little bit of background, how you got to where you are, what you're doing, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Um, well, I I'm a footwear artist turned designer. Um, it started as just having a love of passion of sneakers and footwear. Um, I played sports um all through my life. Uh played college baseball. Um, I took art classes. Art was always very easy for me. It came very natural. My grandmother was an art teacher, so the the genetic pass down worked with me. My mom can't draw a shadeline with a ruler, but I have the artistic talent. And um, yeah, as going through school and you know, when the when the dreams of becoming a pro baseball player were dashed, um, I had something to fall back on. Um, I was working, you know, obviously not an art job, but I was working other jobs, and I saw someone doing custom sneakers in a magazine. And, you know, being a natural competitor, I was like, I could do better than that. This is before MySpace, this is before YouTube, this is before any kind of real social media. Um, and I was basically just like going to the art store and getting paint and buying some Air Maxes and painting on them. They were terrible in hindsight. And, you know, then as like anything like you're training and learning, and you know, you found out people were doing stuff, and we learned how to properly prepare shoes and paint shoes and techniques and whatever. And you know, then like like sports, you know, you practice, you get better. And at that point, I started to feel more comfortable to actually show my work to people and solicit people. And I was going to like barber shops and having my shoes in the uh the window, you know, promoting my work. I had a business card with my phone number on it, which is absolutely crazy nowadays. Right. And um, yeah, and then and then you know, the internet really took on and social media took on, and you know, getting the work in front of the eyes of more and more people, and that's kind of where the legend or the lore of what I've been doing has grown. You know, you fast forward to you know, doing shoes for all these people like LeBron James and The Rock and and uh I don't know, Mark Wahlberg and Lord and Lerners. I mean, I it's it's it sounds crazy to name drop all of these people because it sounds really like I don't know, cheesy. But but it's also that's what what people kind of measure your success by is you know who you've worked with and whatever. So you know, you kind of have to name drop every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna name drop for you a little bit, you know. No, but I mean so better you than me. I I agree, I agree. So I well listen, I mean, first of all, being an artist is uh, and I just had a really big artist on here. She's she's huge with different mediums. My wife is a uh is uh is a very skilled artist as well. Um, you know, like you said to artists, the when you have it, you have it, right? But when you started, you know, painting on sneakers, right? It was something that I don't know, the painting or whatever you were doing to start the sneakers, it wasn't something that was as done back in the day. And how old are you?

SPEAKER_00

I'm 46 now.

SPEAKER_02

Right. You're the same, I'm like two years older than you. We came up in the same times, right? Before MySpace and like you said, social media and all that kind of stuff. When you're doing that, and and you're I could literally envision you going into places and putting your work up and going into places where you think it'll get the most visibility, which is the grassroots of like growing. And especially as artists, like it's even harder to do it. Now social media's changed that game.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But when when when you're when you're doing that, what was the moment that you literally started getting some traction, or what was the moment that kind of put you, you would say, on the map? Like the big the big moment that got you the most publicity?

SPEAKER_00

Um, doing the shoes for LeBron. That was that was the kind of the one where like I've I built my reputation on the East Coast and whatever, and people in New York knew who I was. But when LeBron James posts my shoes, I go to bed with X amount of Instagram followers and wake up with 75,000 more than I woke up beforehand. Wow. That's when kids, I I I use this analogy all the time. This is when kids in Iowa knew who I was. You know, it was like a bigger thing. And granted, this is back in 2013. So like O'Bron was huge, he was still in Miami, but he wasn't the entity that he is now. Like he wasn't building schools and doing stuff, all that yet. He wasn't as big of a brand. I mean, he was obviously one of the most popular players, but right it isn't what it is now, and God forbid, if you know, if that if that same moment happened now, I I who knows what how much even bigger it could have been. But you know, that's obviously just kind of speculating or guessing. Right.

SPEAKER_02

But um, before that, that's the Iron Man, but that's the Iron Man, the Iron Man shoes you get from. I have the for the viewers, I think we have that up already on this screen. I don't know if you can see it. Yeah, those are those are those are awesome. So and then you're saying from then, and then so once you get that on, you get a bunch of followings because there's still a progression. You get a bunch of followers. Sure. So what's the next what's the next step on the ladder? Because you now eyes are on you, so so they started following your Instagram. So it was your next move to kind of just pump the Instagram and get more of your work out?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I was I was always working, you know, no matter what. You know, there was always things going on. I had brother projects, and like I actually got to LeBron through Dwayne Wade, and you know, a lot of my business back then, and still now it's all referrals and stuff like that. It's not like I'm out there going and DMing people, like, you know, um thankfully I'm I'm I'm thankful to be more a little more established now, so I don't have to do that. But back in the day, you know, like the the accessibility of these players and things wasn't as easy as it is now. Um, you know, back then you know, uh us being as the old guys, like in my day, you know, we had to go out outside and go find these people and get past security and do all the yeah, and snow with no shoes on.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00

But we had to do that, and you know, and we did a lot, I did a lot of that. You know, I was going to like the funk master flex car show to give Fat Joe a pair of sneakers, and you know, he doesn't know who me from a hole in the wall at that point. You know, that was one of the first times of you know being in that space and kind of seeing what else was out there. And that was kind of a springboard in a in a very early time. That was probably like 2000, let's say it's 2004-ish, I'd say that was. And that that's when I started to really discover there was more to it than just you know, me at me at home painting shoes and uh, you know, and just being again being motivated by other people and what they were doing. And again, going back to being a natural competitor. You know, I see people that are real doing really good stuff, and it just wants me to be better. And that's kind of been, you know, I'm pretty self-motivated, but it never hurts to see, you know, someone else doing something to push it more.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Now, let me ask you this because being an artist, you you've you've been able to run a successful business, which you know, that for a lot of artists is you know that's that's tough to do because artists.

SPEAKER_00

Starving artists is real.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it is. I mean, and my wife's so talented too, and she but to focus on the business constantly. And I remember she said to me, she does cake art, and she was like, and she does these incredible cakes, like you know, she competes with all the big guys, you know. But she said to me, like, I want to open a bakery. I'm like, well, that might be a little bit different of a game, you know, because you need the bread and butter, right? Like you, you so you have the the athlete that orders, and now you've gotten probably the momentum to where you're always working on someone else or someone else. But what was the challenge in trying to like you had to survive as as you know, you have to survive as a business. Like, what do you work with? Like, were you working with the general public too? Were you getting a lot of those orders? Uh, or you relying on going, you can't just go from celebrity to celebrity, right? Right. So talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'll start all the way back to the kind of the beginning of when I really got the battery in my back, and it was actually my wife that I credit to pushing me for it. And you know, I I think we all can can attribute our partners as motivators and her biggest supporters.

SPEAKER_01

And I'd like the good ones, the good ones, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

She she saw she saw what I was doing and she saw the potential and what I had, and she and you know, I met her at my job that I was working at the time, and she saw me doing the shoes, and she was like, Why are you here? You need to get out here and do this. And she pretty much forced me out of my job to make to go follow the passion of the dream because she saw what was going on. And while it was going on, that's where the starving artists part came in. You know, I wasn't making money at the time, you know. She was helping pay the bills and taking care of all that stuff. We were living off the dollar menu, you know, at that point. And you know, it was it was we came up together, you know, and yeah, we we were very much supportive of each other. And you know, as things grew and grew and grew, you know, we it's just been a partnership the whole time. Um, you know, she she works with me now and you know, helps me with the creative ideas, and like a lot, a lot one of my most popular sneaker designs was her idea. So, and she'll never let me forget that.

SPEAKER_02

What was that design? What was that design for the creative?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was the gouache runner. So I obviously we're talking about the custom shoes, but then we also have the separate entity, which is the Mosh brand, which of my own silhouettes and my own sneakers. And she wanted to do a shoe that was inspired by watercolor, and she wanted it to have every shoe to be different, and we tried to figure out the way to make that happen. And I ended up um working with my friend Brian Nadav in Philly of Lapstone and Hammer, and he was doing a special dyeing of his garments at the time, like ice dyeing. And I was like, I'm gonna tap into him and see if you know, because it looks similar to how the watercolors were. So I tapped into him and he and he was dying the canvas, and every single pair, every single panel was different, every single pair. And it was cool because you know, people you didn't know what you're gonna get, and when people ordered them, you know, then he went and dyed, you know, like I don't even know, I don't even know how much canvas he dyed, but you know, every single pair was different. And I'd see some people like in and like different uh groups and stuff trying to like trade shoes because maybe this one had more orange and then purple or whatever, and they wanted like whatever. But she um but that was that was our most popular shoe, and she always jokes because you know we've done collaborations with like Jeff Staple and you know other brands, and we outsold those. And she was like, See, I don't even need a stupid bird to outsell all these uh all these all these shoes. So it's um that's it's it's fun. She keeps she keeps me humble for sure.

SPEAKER_02

So on a daily basis, though, are so are people able just to reach out to you and and just want to shoot like a person from the public, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Like how how does that work? Yeah, so we try to funnel the communication all into one spot because obviously you get people DMing you through Instagram and all this other stuff. And I I try my best to kind of again, one of the joys of work with an independent brand is you know there is customer service and there's actually someone at the other end as opposed to a bigger brand where it has to go through an automated thing.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but we do have people that will, you know, kind of see um see uh I I totally spaced out.

SPEAKER_02

Um just gonna see what what if it's uh if it's an order that is something that can be done or kind of vet the client worthwhile, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there'll be a lot, a lot of window shoppers and you know, because people some people just don't really know how much shoes custom shoes cost. Right, right. So, you know, you know, some people might just see$200 on it at full locker. I was like, oh my god, that's expensive. Well, well, wait, wait till you see how much it costs us to commission some artwork on those shoes. Right. Um, but yeah, but in the beginning, you know, I I really was pricing stuff like you know, I I didn't know like you know how that goes. So I had some, I had I have another a manager that helps me kind of do some of the negotiations and stuff because uh again, Dan Gamash talking is like, this is crazy how much this is. But then, you know, Mosh, the brand that they're buying from or whatever, you know, that's like that's a whole other thing, and that's where you know what people perceive, you know, something's worth, but someone's willing to pay for it, you know, just just like art, as as you know. Right. So um just kind of seeing work, have people that understand the markets and you know how people work with budgets and stuff with brands and all that, and they do negotiations for me, and I just kind of leave it to the uh, you know, I leave the creative part to myself and let them do all the dirty work. Right. But then also on the other side, you know, there's people that have started with me when I was doing nothing and they're still with me, and they'll obviously still kind of get a little bit of the I maintain that communication with them because I'm big on relationships. Right. So, you know, say like someone who's been with me for 15 years may not get the same price as someone who just found me today. Right. You know, but that's only a grandfathered price.

SPEAKER_02

But that's that's fair, and that's that's that's how it works in life. Like I, you know, my my wife too, she's a cake artist, right? And I keep going back to her because I just know the art world because I I have this unique perspective of trying to monetize it and keep it as a business when it's every work you do is so unique and it takes so much of your time, it takes so much of your effort. And you're you when you have people that call you and say, Well, I want Mickey Mouse on the front or whatever, right? Like that's not how you really work with an artist. Like, all right well, I can incorporate it here and there. How how when you do pricing, what are the challenging in trying to price it, right? Because again, like you said, you have people that vet things, and that's great because you know, I have people that call and ask for a cake and they're like 250, and you know, the cakes are thousand, two thousand, three, you know. I mean, these are they're works of art and people don't understand that. So, how how do you when you do pricing, do you work on like do you think of time, hours, output? And I'm sure like if something excites you, maybe you think differently. Like, tell me about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

You you totally get it. You know, it's something where you know I've been doing it for so long that you know, a lot of the things are like I don't I don't want to just paint colors, but I also have an assistant that can help me just do that, you know, go and handle that stuff. But you know, if you come with a theme that you know maybe tugs at my heartstrings from the 80s, you want like a night rider shoe, I'm gonna get excited about that. You know what I mean? Like, like that that's something different. Um, so I I'm obviously more more exciting and ready to even like let them jump the line because I'm excited to go do it. Right. You know, it doesn't happen as often as it used to, but it it definitely does happen. Um, you know, even the NFL season, you know, like the the the vibes of you know what players get now are different than say five years ago. You know, last back in the day, I would be doing portraits and all these crazy things and they'd be on ESPN every single week. But now everyone's going back to wanting their shoes that look like Kobe Bryant sneakers or like throwback Nike basketball shoes, which is you know, it's a cool thing, but creatively it's not exciting for me. But you know, obviously, you know, you do it and you you put your best foot forward and you know, because at the name of the name of the day, your name's on it, so you have to put the best product out no matter what it is. Right. Um, but yeah, uh in terms in terms of like how to how to price it out, it really depends. Like if it's if if they really, really want it, and I don't really want to do it. I mean, I'm still gonna do it, but it just has to be the juice has to be worth the squeeze, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Agreed, agreed. And let me ask you this. So you do a lot of collabs. Uh a lot of like some of your collabs are just the pigeon and all the stuff that you've done in the past. Like, tell me about the that tell talk to the viewers about the challenges, the difference between designing your own thing, right? Like the best the best client for my wife is the client that doesn't care what the price is and just says, I want this, this, and this, right? And then you can just kind of do what you want to do, and you know that you know that money is really not the option here, right? But how do you deal with when you're collaborating with a big brand? What's the difference? What are the challenges? What do you like? What don't you like?

SPEAKER_00

Lots of Zoom calls for no reason. That's a big one. Um, a lot a lot a lot of stuff, and and that's because there's so many people, you know, so many hands are in the pot and they need to have their thing. And and that comes with any any any bigger brand, you're gonna come with that, and you just have to, you know, let them be let them speak and hear them and and kind of take whatever it is, whether you know it's helpful to the the moving forward of stuff, and you know, and also being very I think the biggest thing is just being very transparent in communication and just letting them know and giving them realistic standards and things to expect. Because, you know, the the worst thing you can do is overpromote and underdeliver. That's obviously the worst thing you can do. So I always try to underpromote everything, and then when it actually comes to fruition, their socks are blown off and they're you know amazed and happy. And hopefully the project is early and not and that at in the last minute, you know, and you do everything possible for that. Um, I think the biggest thing with with these guys is just, you know, just hearing hearing what they're looking for and knowing that they're trusting you because you're the pro and they're coming to you to help them get that out. And I think that's the most important thing. And just also letting them know, like, hey, you guys are coming to me for a reason. You know, trust me, trust the process a little bit, don't micromanage.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. And do you think that your biggest client base has been athletes now? I mean, I see you do a lot of work with athletes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I mean, uh uh during NFL season that that's uh that's a constant for those 17, 18 weeks. Um, but a lot of these these tenth pole projects have been like corporate things. Like we just did a collaboration with Denny's and we did the first shoe with syrup in the shoes for National Syrup Day. And you know, it was made to be a disruption. Obviously, people were talking about it and got a lot of buzz. But you know, this the shoe sold out in five minutes, and you know, we made we made an X amount of pairs, and we're gonna we're talking now about doing a round two because it it, you know, we did it obviously to have buzz, but people really wanted the shoe. So we're we're gonna try we heard them, and and I know Denny's is kind of doing their thing now to figure out how to how to do a second round. So you know, things like that are fun. You know, we've done collaborations, and again, this is with the Mosh brand, not the custom stuff. Um, you know, we've done stuff with Denny's, we've done stuff with Modello, we've had collaborations with um NBA teams, MLB teams, we've done stuff with uh Houston Rockets, the Nets. Um we did a collaboration with the White Sox. I'm a White Sox fan. We did a collaboration with the White Sox. We did a release in Chicago at the st at the stadium. You know, all it it it just comes to a point where it's like, you know, this is my life. It's crazy. And I I I still I still try to, you know, get reminded, you know, Liz will remind me. She's like, you don't really realize how much stuff you've accomplished. And you know, because I'm always on to the next thing, on to the next thing. And every once in a while, yeah, I gotta kind of step back and smell those roses a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I I I've been running a law practice, very different 20 years, but I have I'm current carrying 200 to 250 problems every day, right? And and you just you knock out the the projects, right? You're just knocking out the projects and you're having fun, and I have fun along the way, and and what your craft is, right? At some point after the years and years, you you look back, you're like, wow. But it you the good thing is when you're as busy as you are and you're successful, you don't really have the time to do that too much, but you got to make yourself do that. You're just on to the next project, right? So, like, yeah, but that that's gotta be amazing to see. And uh what do you think? Like, if I if you had to rank your your top five favorite projects, and I'm gonna put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_00

What are some of your favorites? You know, it's it's like trying to pick your favorite child, because obviously when you're in it, you're in it. Of course.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I guess I can make it easier, like top five most successful ones. I mean, you want to do it that way.

SPEAKER_00

Um, are you are you gonna say custom work or like my sneakers or both?

SPEAKER_01

Both, both, just your top five.

SPEAKER_00

All right. Um, I would say my what the mosh runner was was a big one, and that that was because that was the culmination of the first uh 12 colorways of the V1, and we told a really cool story with all those different shoes, and it was also an opportunity for me to go back to my hometown and kind of tell my story a little bit um from it. Yeah, I went back to like the trailer park that I grew up at and just kind of gave was a cool opportunity to kind of kind of bring them back home, really, is is the way to say it. I think that was one of them. Um the LeBron pair, obviously, is for many reasons. Um I think the pair that Stefan Diggs wore in the for the Minneapolis Miracle that's in the the Hall of Fame now, that that's one.

unknown

Um

SPEAKER_00

Um let's see. Trying to think what other ones were big. Or what or it meant something more than others.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. Um you have a big catalog though, my friend.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I I'll maybe like going to WWE stuff. I I've had the Undertaker my shoes and uh God. I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I put you on the spot there, but you have so many things, you know.

SPEAKER_00

And the thing is, like, there's always ones that I forget, and like I'll have to go through my phone or someone will repost something. I'm like, oh my god, I totally forgot about those. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um and yeah, so as you're thinking, I'm gonna hit you with another question. As you're thinking, I said if it comes to you, it comes to you. So I like you said, like you go back on some of your other work, and uh, how often does that happen when you go back and you look at it and you're like, because I know the artist mind, you're probably like, well, I could have done that a little bit differently, or I could have done this, or I could have done that. Does that happen on almost all your projects?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I I remember back in the day, like again, I I'm always gonna keep referencing my wife because you know, she would check stuff and she's like, you know, there's paint on the sock liner, you know. And you know, me being the artist be like, no, I'm like, it's okay, it's art, you know, whatever. And she's like, bro, it's like, come on, like she's the type A, like, she's like, no, this is do it right. And you know, and I I see stuff that I did, you know, 15 years ago, and I'm like, oh my god, how did I let that go out of my my shop?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, but but at the time I was proud of it, you know, it's right, it's it's um, it's crazy to see the evolution and just the you know the quality. And and and I also just think it's just like again, with the the the name and the I guess the reputation that I that I have now that I know that no matter what, you know, ass you have to put at your best for there's no off day with this stuff because you know you could have one bad project or one bad custom, and that could ruin 25 years of a of a good reputation. So it's it's very important that you know you do you do that. And I'm I'm very aware of that for sure.

SPEAKER_02

That's scary. Let me ask you this. So you you came up in the same time, talk about the industry a little bit now, you know. So I remember I remember back in the day when I was a kid, like when the first Jordans came out. Like, literally, I remember it. I'm sure you probably remember it too. I would walk into the sneaker store, I would walk in the store, and they were like 130 bucks back then. Remember, like that was crazy for a sneaker in in like 89, 90. Like, we were like, I would go and I'd ask to look at this shoe, and I would go with my friends, we were mall rats. We would look at that shoe probably four times a week to where the employees are like, listen, you're not gonna buy it, we're not bringing it down for you anymore. You know, like we would just stare at this shoe to see where the the game has gone now, right? So, what are your thoughts on what is different, first of all, from when we start off with the sneaker industry to now? What are like some of the biggest changes you've noticed? Um, you know, give us our your thought on growing with the industry and watching the industry rise the way it has. I mean, now you can't even get the you can't even get the big sneakers in the stores anymore, right? So talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_00

The internet's been a great and a bad thing for sneakers, right? Um, obviously, like that the lore of going to the mall, like going into full locker with the astroturf and the scoreboard, you know, like that was nostalgic back then. You know, being able to go in and that was the only way you saw it, you know, and that I totally get it. You know, I I bought my first pair of Jordans, pair of Jordan 5s back in 1990. I shoveled driveways and mowed lawns to get my 125 bucks. And the funny part was I went in to go in the foot locker to go buy them, and I thought I was buying the Jordan 4s because that was the last one I saw. When I walked in, that one wasn't there anymore. It was the new one, and it was the five with the silver tongue. And I was like, oh, well, this is the one I'm buying because it's the Jordans.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, now the the accessibility of of you know information is so easy that you know they're they're showing stuff years in advance. And by the time the shoe comes out, a lot of people are either so um worn out by seeing it so much that they don't get that rush that we used to get, you know, back in the day. You know, I remember like, and then I'm sure you know, like the eSBay catalogs were like that was the internet back then, you know. Yeah, the first kid that the first kid that got East Bay catalog, you know, before they came out was the most popular kid in school because you bring it to school and they're passing it around and we're looking at all that stuff. Right. And uh that those days and the like that nostalgia, that's something that you know the kids today they don't understand. And and you know, that's just there's they weren't around for it, so they don't get it. Just like how I don't feel like they have connections to Michael Jordan because I never saw him play basketball. You know, they weren't there for the Bulls dynasty, they weren't there for the battles with with the Bulls and the Bulls and the Knicks and the Magic. And you know, they weren't around for it. They just see it as the old guy that was in the documentary, you know, with that has a bunch of memes. And you know, but they but they like it because you know their favorite rappers wearing them or whatever. And you know, it's just it's just different times. But then you also see that like you know, everything is you know comes in circles, and you know, things that weren't popular back then you know are popular now, and you know, it's it's gonna come back around again, you know, like the baggy jeans are back, and you know, like then it'll go back to skinny jeans again. And you know, it it it just you you gotta go with the flow. And I think the biggest thing with with me as a designer is just to be aware of the trends and not not really change my style or my aesthetic based off of that, but just maybe like how how do I say it? But also, but but being aware enough to to let them know that I'm paying attention. Like I'm not just gonna be a stubborn, I'm designed for me, I have to design for people to buy shoes, you know, and the customer and all that stuff. But you also don't want to be the DJ that that just takes requests all the time, because then it's like, what's the point?

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So it's a it's a it's a fine line you have to straddle. And um, but I do feel like the internet, again, it's a great thing because I think it gives everyone a voice, but the also the bad part is it gives everybody a voice, good or bad. And there's a lot of smart people and there's a lot of dumb people, and their voices are just as loud.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And so now in many facets of the world, not just sneakers.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. And and it's such it's such a it's such a different world with the internet now. And with your with your Instagram page, and you are you do you do your own social media or do you have people helping you with that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's still it's still me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I um I with TikTok, I I had someone trying to help me with it, because again, like I'm not doing all I I don't have time to do the editing and stuff. Well then for YouTube, I have a guy that does like the editing for the videos and my promo and stuff. But like posting and stuff, that's me. And I think the biggest thing is with you know the the brands and stuff is you know, people they they they like the product and there's a lot of great product out there, but I think it's easier to get around someone that they can connect to personally, and not saying that I'm an open book and I'm sharing every single thing of my life, but they get a good idea of how I am and how I operate. And you know, like even even your brother, you know, he knows he knows how I am and he knows how I am as a person. And I think we get along better because of that as opposed to just sneakers.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And talking about some of the evolution of the shoe, what's your top favorite shoes? Period, you growing up. That's another one I'm stuck in you with.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Well, the Jordan 5 was was my gateway drug to everything. So that's the first one off the rip. Um, and then it it it kind of goes into I was a big Harachi fan, the Harachi trainer. Oh, yeah. Um the one they had just retroed again, um, the Bo Jackson one. It was uh it was black with the with the gray toe box with the strap on them. Um that was that was one. Um I was a big Frank Thomas fan. So the big hurt reebok I liked, but the one that was actually his signature was the one with the strap. That was the it was the Reebok Arsenal. That was one of my top ones. Right and also the Shack Gnosis is is the top for me. And I had I had I still had the original pair. And I remember um when they first retroed them, I was really mad because I was I felt special for a long time because I had still had the originals, and now everyone else that could just go into a philocker could could get them and you wouldn't know the difference, so I didn't feel special anymore. Right. And then um and then uh now it's just running shoes. I mean, I'm I'm so now that I'm now that I am in my 40s, comfort is very important.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right. So we get the orthopedic shoes.

SPEAKER_00

A lot, a lot of a lot of a lot of comfy, like a lot of a lot of ASICs, a lot of new balances. Um I think um uh night Nike's been getting a little better with their comfort stuff. I'm I'm not wearing tech technical runner shoes, right? But like you know, Bomeros and stuff like that. I'll I'm I'll live in that. And then and then of course, you know, I gotta throw my own brand in there, you know. So I'm not repping myself. How can I expect other people to? So right.

SPEAKER_02

Um talk to me about your talk, talk to me about I didn't mean to cut you off. I'm sorry, uh talk to me, talk to me about your so your recent project. You were supposed to come on a couple weeks ago, and then you had to fly out. You were working with Wu-Tang clan, right? And I saw you just release that shoe. Talk to us about that a little bit. Uh Dan's putting that up. Those those look awesome. They look awesome. I was looking at him. I got every time I look at them, I like them more. But tell me about um, tell me about that project. Tell me about how that was, how was it working with those guys? Who were you working with?

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Well, it's actually funny. Um, one of his partners I went to high school with. Oh, cool. And again, goes back to relationship building. And um for years and years, we were always talking about doing something. And um, I had done customs from FMN back in 2020. I actually went, I went down to Saturn Island and gave him the shoes during COVID. We're all masked up and gave him his shoes, and that's where we first connected. And then, you know, fast forward to 2025, um, my buddy was just like, hey, you know, we have another partner, you know, we're looking to do some other projects. You know, how do you feel about doing a decal athletics, you know, with Mosh? And I was like, Yeah. And at the time I was, I remember I remember distinctly I was in Brooklyn, I was in Brooklyn, Kiff, and I was going to a WE show. And I remember I was on the phone call, like, I was walking through, and then my buddy was with me, and I'm like, hung up the phone, I'm like, we're doing a shoe with Meth the Man. He's like, What? I'm like, Yeah, like dope. So I I jumped right to it. And I for the most part, they let me, you know, steer, steer the car for the most part. Um, they didn't really have too many inputs because obviously they already knew the shoe and they were familiar with with the silhouette, and you know, meth's really big in the gym now and working out. So we I wanted to make sure there was something that he could wear in the gym. Um and he's a he's a diehard Jets fan. And originally he wanted to do a green shoe. And I was like, if we're doing a Wu-Tang shoe, you gotta do black and yellow. You we can't start off with a green.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, maybe, you know, and he was sorry, because you know, but he he was receptive to that, like he was receptive to feedback from you and all that.

SPEAKER_00

That's great. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the I think the only the only change that we made was changing, we changed the material of the toe box a couple times because I wanted what we ended up going with was the thing I originally wanted. I wanted to do the honeycomb rip stop nylon material. So it kind of emulated the you know, the honeycomb of the bees and stuff, right? And we couldn't fit we couldn't source it, we couldn't find it. And the first sample had like a printed honeycomb print of leather, it looked really cheap, didn't like that, but we made the samples just because I wanted to get the ball rolling, and we had done variations that had um had a gum outsole, and then we had a black outsole, and like personally, I like the gum sole. I'm I'm a sucker for gumsoles, gum bottoms, and so we made variations of both, and we asked you know meth which one he preferred, and he said the black, so that's why we want with black. But I still have one pair with gum soles in my own stash while we're making the factory. I was like, let's just do one with gum just for me. And um, and yeah, it's been um it's been good. It's funny because like he's meth is uh you know, he's now he's now in his 50s, and you know, he's he's he's a homebody for the most part. He likes to stay in San Island and do stuff and you know, kind of working around him and you know, promotion, you know, his guys are doing all the heavy lifting for you know on their end for promoting, and you know, I'm doing my end, and you know, it's been a cool project, and it's obviously something great to throw in a portfolio to say I work with freaking methyman, you know, someone our age, it's like, oh my god. Right, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome. So congrats on that. And it's an amazing, it came out amazing. Um, so every artist has their story about nightmare scenarios that have happened, right? With projects and tough projects. And I remember my wife's had a cake collapse. She had a person that picked it up wrong, and like there's so many things that can go wrong on these projects, right? Do you have like can you talk to some of some of the memorable ones that you remember? You're like, oh my god, that was a tough project. I don't know if I'll ever do something like that again, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, I will I will say the the project, the the Iron Man's for LeBron were had some some snafuos. Really? Um yeah. So originally Nike was supposed to send the shoe, you know, because I was going through his people for it, and they sent the wrong ones, and they they didn't they didn't come in time. Um, I was leaving for Houston to deliver them to shoes in like two days, and and the shoes hadn't come yet, and I was like panicking. It was like two days before we were leaving, and I was like on the phone with his rep, like, yo, where are these shoes? You know, and basically I was just like, yo, I'm like, I I I can work fast, but I don't work this fast, and I don't want to rush it and give them a subpart product. So I was like, what are we doing? And you know, thankfully they got there and I was sweating bullets. But the biggest, I think the biggest um stress or whatever is more of a learning lesson more than anything, because when I started to get really popular and start, you know, building up popularity on Instagram, I was taking out lots and lots of orders. You know, I was very excited to have all that business coming in, and I was saying yes to everybody. And I got so overwhelmed and so overbooked that I was so I end up being so far behind on customs. And you know, it got to a point where you know I would post a new thing everywhere every day, and people in the comments are like, oh, I'm so winging for my shoes from for like two months ago. And you know, and I was like, all right, you know, we we're gonna pause all this and I'm gonna get my backlog taken care of again, you know, reputation. You know, I want to make sure that um, you know, people are spending their money with us that you know they're gonna get their product. Right. So I I halted for like six months, got the whole backlog taken care of, and you know, got back to it. And it was just a learning lesson, you know, to just know how, you know, not to overextend yourself and understand what your limits are. And and again, it goes back to just being being um you know very transparent. You know, that was the the the learning lesson that even when that was happening, I was always you know trying to stay in contact with people and like, hey, this is this, this is this, like there, but there was then there was on top of that, there are projects coming, they're like big projects. Like I was doing all these things and I got a project for Jay-Z and Puma. And it's like, you don't say no to that, right? But it's like, but I have all these other other orders that have to get done. So, you know, I so the biggest thing was just to be like, hey, you know, let these customers know what's going on, and and hopefully, you know, and hopefully in good faith, be like, hey, they're happy that the for me that this is happening and you know, happy to be part of the whole thing. And and for the most part, you know, it worked out fine. Obviously, some people weren't happy, but it was it was a learning lesson for me, you know, just to one, to say no, and two to just be like, hey, I can't do this, but let's you know, let's get a system. And that's kind of what we learned from that. And that's one of the things that has stayed with me for you know, that that's been over 10 years that we've learned from that lesson.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, well, I think that's the biggest challenge. I think that's always just from the outside looking in, just assessing what you do. You know, you're you're always you always you could have the big team, you could have everybody around you, but you're still you're still the guy that's got to do the the artwork, right? So like even even as a lawyer, I have we have six, seven lawyers underneath us and all that. We're we're but still like I can kind of I can delegate some of the stuff, right? I don't have to be they want the clients want me in the end, they want the the personality and all that kind of stuff. But you like my wife, she she can get a baker, right? And then she can come and do the artwork and do like the figurines and all that kind of stuff. For you, you you're I mean, that's gotta be the crazy challenge for you because, like you said, you can't say no, these huge projects, you're one person, you can't run yourself into the ground either. Do you have you ever have you found uh like any young artist that can help out on minimal things? Sure. And then yeah, tell me about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I have a guy that works with me, his name's Rob, and he's he's been with me for like 10 years. And it basically he does um, he'll do the basic stuff, he'll do the color blocking, he'll do prep, he'll do like he can do those kind of things. Like that's those are things that I could teach you how to do as a process.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but obviously people are paying for the artistry and the creativeness and whatever. So at the end of the day, um we're definitely not being an anti-warhole, you know, system over here. It's still, you know, me at the end of the day, getting getting the um, you know, the fine details and the zhuzh and all that other stuff on it. Um, but you know, when we do these high volume, say like you know, corporate orders, you know, it's a definitely a team, a team uh process. Um, you know, I do the designing and stuff, but then I say he'll get them all blocked out in yellow, and then I'll go in and you know assembly line it and we'll go through and you know, guys to some of them, you know, then they have times where my wife's lacing up shoes and boxing up stuff and doing quality control checks, and you know, it's a well-of-the-machine, but it's you know, it's all people that I trust uh with it. And you know, excluding my wife, and you know, she cares as much as I do, but like you know, employees like they'll never care as much as you do because you're their names on the box and they're not getting doing the emails and stuff. So I'm understanding of that. And you know, even when I now now when say he gives me a shoe and I look at it, I'm looking at it like it's my wife looking at my shoe. I'm picking it apart because I'm like, this is my reputation. So a lot of times then I'll go in and I'll I'll point things out or whatever, and you know, and and now I just do it myself. You know, he'll he'll do his thing. I'm like, all right, now it's my turn to turn it from from good to great. And that that that's how we do it.

SPEAKER_02

Right. That's so it's funny because every artist usually has a wife or a or a husband that's more of the type A personality. Like I'm the type A personality, right? I find like the the successful couples are usually you got the art mind and then you got the type A mind, and they work well together. The people that you think would not work well together work the best together, you know. Um yeah, and I I can see that, you know, I can see still though, with the artists, it's difficult. It would be, I'm sure for you, it's difficult, just like you say, it's your name, your brand, to find that balance of I gotta let go, I can't be involved in this. I gotta be able to let go or let this person do this, right? So I I'm sure you you you still have that challenge on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, every single day. And it and that's and that's the challenge of growth, you know, is you know, you can you you have a limit of what you can do. Right. And you know, and and that's a whole other thing is just finding people that you know believe in the mission and all that stuff that care enough to do their part and do all that. And you know, you you have your very small circle of people that you know help out, and you know, and that that's great. You know, and if you know someday, you know, maybe it's in five years, ten years, some big hedge funk the lumber wants to buy me out. Well then let's go for it. But yeah, you know, at this point, the the the creative part's always gonna be the fun part. I still enjoy it, I still enjoy creating. I always have my my uh iPad and I'm sketching things and you know, I have I have an idea. We're working on our next uh V3 runner now, like silhouette, and I already have a bunch of themes I'm already thinking of that I have jotted in my notes on my phone, you know, just how to because a lot of times like when I started doing customs, I have an idea when I'm in a dream or I'd sleep or I'd pull out my little notepad and I had a little notepad of all my themes and ideas. And um, yeah, it it's it's yeah, obviously evolved over the last 20 years, but it's uh it's still the same, you know, get an idea and figure out how to tell that story without just making it literal. I think that's a good challenge of you know, being a shoe designer, you know, you could do a metallica shoe, but you don't want to just have a you know a Metallica logo on it and whatever you want to figure out how to tell a story with materials and you know stuff without just putting branding on it. That's lazy.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So and so that is that the project that you're working on currently? Is that your like your focus on? And I'm sure you got multiple projects, probably.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we have a bunch.

SPEAKER_02

Um yeah, give us some of your new project that you're working on that you don't mind revealing to listeners and viewers, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we we we last year we branched into golf. Um, we have golf shoes as well. And I I picked up golf again. I play baseball, so my swing is horrible. I'm still trying to get the baseball swing out, but I've been full, full swing in that pun intended. And we have a couple really cool colorways coming out in the spring. Um, we had one that was ready to come out last year and ended up getting held up in customs with all the tariff stuff and all that nonsense. So we put it on the back burner. Um, but now we're you know for spring, we're gonna have a bunch of different colorways, locked and loaded. I'm really excited about um that's awesome, obviously.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's awesome watching it's watching watching people like the artists are growing up or like musicians, whatever, as they get older, they they start to you're doing golf now, right? That's what we're playing. Like I'm playing golf now too. So now you're making golf shoes, you know. I think that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

You know, it's funny, and you know, and the thing is like any of the projects that I always had some kind of personal connection. Like I did a gym shoe because I got back in the gym and was again back on my fitness stuff, you know, and just telling the story, and you know, and again, people relate to that stuff. Um, but the golf, it's funny with the golf because you know, some of my friends are in MLB, you know, they're all golfing now. So like I'm sending these guys golf shoes. They're like NFL players that are golfing and they're taking it up. Like I gave Steph Curry a pair of golf shoes when I saw him because now he's a free agent. So I'm like, I know you're not gonna sign with Mosh brand here, but you know, let's let's get some Moshes in your arsenal now. You can wear them. So uh he's someone I've worked with for for a couple years now. Um we actually I did something with him um back in November uh when he just announced that he was leaving Under Armour and he's just having fun. He was like, dude, he goes, I have 365 days worth of shoes I've been dying to wear. So it's not gonna stop for a while. You know, he's just he's just enjoying himself right now. But um it's it's just yeah. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

I mean to keep cutting you off. I wanted to finish your thought.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, no, no. I was just gonna say it's it's just cool to work with people that you know have a have a genuine, you know, appreciation for what you do. You know, Steph appreciates the Process and trust me, you know, because I've done custom stuff for him in the past, whether it's for basketball or for golf, I've done for both. And um, yeah, it's it's just really dope. And again, the fact that I can just go and text him is like crazy. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, so yeah, he's probably he's a sneaker head, I can tell. And uh, so I'm sure, dude. How is your sneaker collection? Last couple minutes here. Like, I do are you uh my wife wants to kick my closet out, she wants to kick all this stuff out. I I can't I gotta stop buying shoes. I gotta stop. I don't know what to do. I'm like a crackhead, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, well, I have a room, and uh it's a room, and the thing is, it's it's between both, you know, shoes that get sent to me, shoes that I buy, it's both accumulated. And I've been a collector for over 20 years, so there's a lot of things that aren't even wearable. Like I have original Bo Jacksons from 1990 and Agassiz where the soles are crumbled, but you know, I'm not gonna get rid of them because they're the artifacts at this point. And but but I will say my wife does um, she supports it. She's talking about building, you know, a whole special sneaker room for me. So it's she's she's all for it. But I did I did get rid of over 400 pairs last year just to make room because it was just like it's got to a point you can't even get to them, you know. Like even if there's a pair I wanted to get to, I wouldn't even know like the the things were stacked from like layers against the wall, ceiling to whatever, and uh I just it it was just overwhelming.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

It's like freaking shoes. But right, it's um but yeah, it it's yeah, and I still love I love shoes.

SPEAKER_02

My brother, you know, Eric, he's got a crazy collection. My brother, like yeah, he's at a point where he's got storage units and storage units, and like I I'm I'm trying not to get to that, but like you said you threw four in a pair. That must have been hard. Like, how how hard was that? Yeah, but it's liberating afterwards, though, right? You feel a little bit cleaner, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So much better. The fact that I actually walk in the room and not have anxiety was amazing, right? To see the floor, it was amazing, right? And um, yeah, it was um again, it was tough, but you know, there was a lot there's shoes I didn't know I had, you know. There's shoes are there to like, you know, if I haven't tried to find them in the last five years, they can go. Yeah, I'm not gonna miss them because obviously I I didn't know they were there in the first place. Right. And that's kind of how I looked at it. Like a lot of the Jordans I got rid of, like I said, I'm not gonna wear them, you know, like anymore. Like all those old Nike basketball, like all those old LeBrons, I'm not wearing those, not now.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, uh yeah, there's if there's like a you know a significant story, like there's customs I I obviously kept, but like just regular, like you know, when Nike was really seeding me stuff like every single week, you know, they would send me so much stuff, and you know, I gave away a lot of it, I sold a lot of it, you know, whatever it was. Um, but you still there was just so much, so many, so many pairs.

SPEAKER_02

Right. But at least you know what you at least you've monetized it, it's your business, it's your career, so you can get away with your your wife actually wants to help you build something to put it in. My wife's going for it, my friend. You know, my stuff, my stuff I gotta get rid of really quick, you know. But listen, in the last few minutes, uh, this has been great, man, talking to you and like getting the insight here. Your work's amazing. But in the last few minutes, is there something that you would like a message that you would give to young artists coming up? And not necessarily sneaker artists and designers, young artists that are trying to monetize, that are trying to grow a business because doing what you do on the sneakers is one thing, but running a business the way that you've done it and and creating your brand, your brand's the one of the top ones out there now. Like, what is a message that you would give to young artists listening and watching this? Now, I know that's a hard thing, but what if you had to give a message, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00

Don't be discouraged by other people. Um, I think you know, I I get caught up with again being the competitive person, you see what other people are doing, and sometimes you kind of look at yourself like, oh, I should be doing more or whatever. But and I think it's good to be motivated by other people and things, but also, but not negatively impacted. And, you know, I could be a little bit of a hypocrite by saying this only because it's a lesson that I'm I'm still learning. Um, but I think doing it for yourself and just getting it out there. I know it's it's really cool to see that custom sneakers has be almost become like the paper root now for these kids. Because you know, when we were younger, paper roots was how we made money. But now these kids can just go out and get some angels, paint some Air Force Ones, and and you make a couple hundred bucks. It's it's great, it's awesome. And uh they don't have to brave the elements.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But um, but yeah, I think I think the the biggest thing is you know, they have all these tools and resources that they use them, you know. Like I I was the old guy wait waving my hand at the cloud, being like, you know, when I was around, right? I couldn't just DM someone, you know, like I didn't have a built-in fan base. I had to go seek people out because people didn't know what this was. I had to explain what it was. And I and I think just um yeah, just do it for yourself. Don't don't listen to people, you know. I think you take constructive criticism and just also know if someone's giving you criticism, it's not hating. Especially that's another thing. I think we're all very defensive, um, especially these days, with with again, with everyone having voices and stuff, not everyone's out to get you. And um, yeah, I think those are the two or three things. I mean, I don't I don't know if there's any like concrete facts or steps that I gave from that, but that's those are just things that I've taken away, you know, over the years.

SPEAKER_02

But listen, they're watching you, you know. So you you're a trailblazer in the game, man, and it's been an honor having you on. I I'm a big fan, I'm following all your stuff, man. I can't wait to see what your next stuff is. Um, and that's the biggest thing you could do for these. You've done a lot for these young guys coming up doing what you're doing. They're they're trying to follow your your your road, your your path, and everybody has to trail, you know, blaze their own trail, you know. But you you you're doing it, you're doing it every day for them. And it's an honor to have you on, man. I can't wait to see your next projects. If you don't mind holding on a second while I sign off, so I can just talk to you for a minute afterwards. Yeah. Um for sure. But thank you for coming on, my friend. Thank you for everything. And uh, I look forward to seeing you or maybe having you back on here again after your next project. See if we can grab you again in between your touring between some of these places.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. Thanks, man. I appreciate the time.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much, my friend. To all my listeners and viewers, thank you for watching two taps and friends. We're gonna tag uh we're gonna tag Mosh's stuff up, Dan's stuff up is all over. It's incredible stuff to follow. We'll tag it all up so you guys can all watch it. Thank you guys for watching 2 Taps and Friends. Please like and subscribe to the channel. I'm being told I have to tell you this every time. If you like and subscribe to the channel, we're live. We're able to bring more people like the amazing Maj on here. Um, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, we're on YouTube, we're everywhere. Marketing team does a great job. Thank you guys all for watching. We love you. See you soon. Goodbye. Cut