Two Taps and Friends

Dye & Golburgh | Why the Charlie Kirk Conspiracies are Falling Apart #80

• Daniel Rosenberg • Episode 80

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In this candid conversation, hosts Danny Rosenberg, attorney Michael Dye, and attorney Lloyd Golburgh break down the preliminary hearing for Tyler Robinson, the alleged shooter in the Charlie Kirk assassination. They examine the prosecution’s evidence—including video footage, incriminating text messages, engraved bullets, and witness statements—while addressing the legal process and dismantling persistent conspiracy theories. A grounded, lawyer-led discussion on justice, evidence, and the human cost of tragedy.

⏰ Timestamps ⏰
00:00:00 👋 Intro
1:34 ⚖️ Preliminary Hearing Explained
2:05 📋 Charging by Information in Utah
3:49 👤 Introducing Tyler Robinson
5:37 🎤 Addressing Conspiracy Theories
6:55 📹 Video Footage Breakdown
14:43 💬 The Damning Text Messages
19:41 🔍 Engraved Bullets & Motive
23:55 🎥 Roommate Interview Under Immunity
33:19 🔬 Ballistics Evidence & Limitations
39:40 🧠 Premeditation, Defense Outlook & Strategy
43:45 🔄 Courtroom Observations & Next Steps

How do you think conspiracy theories persist even with strong public evidence—psychological or social factors?

#CharlieKirk #CandaceOwens #JusticeSystem #LegalAnalysis #TrueCrime #Evidence #courtcase #legalupdate #investigation #hiddentruth #lawandorder #truecrimecommunity #lawyerlife #lawyer #lawyers #legaladvice #stories #legend #Podcast #CurrentEvents #PublicFigure #courtroomdrama #twotapsandfriends 

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SPEAKER_02

The Charlie Kirk um assassinations back at the forefront right now.

SPEAKER_00

I think he's a total Patsy. I think they get look-alikes and they got everybody wearing the same outfit. I think he played a role.

SPEAKER_02

They found the gun. They they show him walking with a gun. They found the casings. They found everything. They have him confessing. They have confession text. They have confessions from his lover. I mean, you name it, they have it. They have DNA on the gun. They get the guy's phone. All right. Why did I do it? Yeah. He says, I had enough of this hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence.

SPEAKER_09

Robinson says to Twiggs, you know, I want to engrave bullets. I have a hunting trip coming up. Where's the Dremel?

SPEAKER_02

We know if it was him doing the engraving, not the CIA co-op. Correct. Not the Mossad. Right. Not Erica Kirk. That's right. I mean the level of just the level of depravity of the woman Candace Owens. It makes money. Never play chess with a with a pigeon. Because no matter if you win or not, the pigeon will knock the bucking pieces on the board over and shit all over the board and act like it won. Right. And that sums Candace Owens up to a T. So I hear Michael Die. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_05

It's good to be back, Daniel. Thank you for the other sweatshirts.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. And I have attorney Lloyd Goldberg back with us. Good morning.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to Two Taps and Friends. Grab your favorite drink. Get comfy and let's dive into another episode of Two Taps and Friends.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome back to Two Taps and Friends. I'm the host of the show, Danny Rosenberg. Today I have my panel back. I have attorney Michael Bai back with us. Michael Bai. Michael Bai or Michael Dye. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_05

It's good to be back, Danny. Thank you for the other sweatshirts.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. And I have attorney Lloyd Goldberg back with us. Good morning. And I want to talk current topics, current issues. And uh one of the big things right now is the Charlie Kirk um assassinations back at the forefront right now. We covered it. We did an in-depth episode on it a while back when it happened. It is a tragic, terrible thing that took its own life, took on its own crazy life afterwards with conspiracy theories and a bunch of bullshit and innuendo, and there's characters that have made a living on this, and there's characters that are just corrupt people all around. Uh Candace Owens, namely disgusting person, um, that's just literally just clicking, getting clicks and views on just coming up with the most ridiculous theories. But anyway, it's back at the forefront because there's now back, we're back in Provo, Utah, where this happened, and there is a preliminary hearing that just got started. So uh the way it works is this is not the actual trial, right? This is a preliminary hearing. So for non-lawyers or non-legal people here, what that means is um this is a showing of the evidence. And and in a lot of states, it's not typical that they do it, but they do if there's a challenge to you know what evidence should come in, usually before trial, you know, if there's going to be any challenges or arguments about what evidence is proper or improper, or any restrictions, you know, we'll they'll do these kind of things. But this is a full-on hearing where they're displaying the evidence and and putting it up in front of the judge, and the defense gets to question some things too, and and it's a back and forth, and the judge determines what evidence gets in. So we're the first time we're really getting a showing, you know, because we saw reports and you see news and a couple of press conferences where they put out things, but now we're seeing some of the evidence that's going to be presented, and it's pretty heavy and pretty damning. So, Mike, you want to explain the preliminary hearing a little bit?

SPEAKER_05

But let's go back because it's kind of like a procedural uh cluster here. Um there's two ways you can be charged with a crime. You can either be indicted, which is a grand jury, or you can they file an information. In Florida, unless it's a capital case or a life felony, uh, I think it's a life felony with it, then you have to be you can be charged by information, which is just the prosecutor filling out a piece of paper saying there's probable cause. Um in Utah, they again they can charge anything by information. However, if they charge the crime by information and they by and skip the grand jury, then what happens is there's an adversarial probable cause hearing to determine if there's probable cause to move forward with the case.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_05

So in this case So they skip the grand jury. Yeah, they they skip the grand jury and they charge Tyler Robinson by information. Since uh they charged him by information, skipping the grand jury, they have to go in front of the judge and show that they have probable cause to keep the case going and move it to trial. If the judge says there is no probable cause, which is not going to happen, but if the judge says that there is no probable cause, the case gets dismissed, but it doesn't bar the prosecution from taking it in front of a grand jury and getting the indictment.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So uh a lot of evidence has been coming out. So, first of all, let's just show Tyler Robinson for the if you've been living under a rock and you don't know who Tyler Robinson is. Could you flash that photo up? This is Tyler Robinson, this is the shooter. Okay, and that's clearly Charlie Kirk. We all know his face by now. He's the shooter, okay? He's right now the alleged shooter, but I have not seen it's rare in these assassination cases that you see so much evidence up front, right? Yeah, and in this day and age, it's terrible. Like it doesn't matter, you could lean it doesn't matter what you show, people are gonna say, like we talked about in other episodes, it's AI or it's this, or that's not him, or and there's people that are banking off it. So, I mean, the main showings that have come up right now um are you know, we have the the show, the recorded statement of Lance Twiggs, which is this guy's lover, roommate slash whatever. Um text, the text message. We're gonna get into all that. I'm not ready to flash those yet, but text with Tyler Robinson and and this and his roommate lover, um, the engravings on the bullets and and all of that. And and and and so it's a lot of damning evidence that's been coming out. So, and it's and it's good to see because now we're really seeing it, right? Like you heard about it, but we're seeing it, and as defense attorneys, you know, you can we can really kind of have a unique perspective on gauging the strength of a case, right? And there's a lot, there's a lot, there's a lot of evidence, and it's crazy that with all this evidence, which you know we'll go through here in a minute, but that these conspiracy theories went flying and at the behest of certain people, right? Like he was killed by the government, he was killed, but now like Charlie Kirk's wife's getting attacked. Um, if at first it was Israel, Mossad, yeah, turning point, USA, his company, the wife is getting she sued, Candace Owen, right? She has a lawsuit against Candace Owens for defamation. She's a real piece of work, this Candace Owens. But if let's show, first of all, you know what? Let's go through the the evidence first. I mean, let's go through some of the commentary since we're talking about the scumbags first, right? So let's put up what let's first of all let's start with Candace Owens. She now, even though they have this guy on video, they show a video of him. We'll get to that too. They show they found the gun, they they show him walking with a gun, they found the casings, they found everything. They have him confessing, they have confession text, they have confessions from his lover. I mean, you name it, they have it. They have DNA on the gun, they have DNA. I mean, literally, beyond a reasonable doubt, okay? Unless you fly in conspiracy theories, okay? Yeah. But before this came out, this woman was just banking on all these theories, and she's still doing it. She's the kind of person that's gonna double down. I saw a meme where never play chess with a with a pigeon, because no matter if you win or not, the pigeon will knock the bucking pieces on the board over and shit all over the board and act like it won, right? And that sums Candace Owens up to a T. So, first of all, let's play Candace Owens, this douchebag Sean Ryan, who I think you fucking quoted on shows before. I like him. Oh god. Play Sean Ryan and the Candace Owens. Just to see Dumb and Dumber talking for a second.

SPEAKER_08

With fellow adult Sean Ryan. Oh god.

SPEAKER_00

Who do you think is behind this? I don't think Tyler Robinson was there. You don't think he was there? I think he's a total Patsy. I think they get look-alikes and they got everybody wearing the same outfit. I think he played a role, and I believe that what he did was he picked up clothes and he dumped them behind the Dairy Queen. I think he had a role. But I do not believe that Tyler Robinson is the person who was walking in that staircase. I do not believe uh the person walking in the staircase was even the person that we saw running off of the roof. I don't even know what day that person was running off the roof.

SPEAKER_02

We play the video of the staircase. This is the video they played in the preliminary hearing.

SPEAKER_07

And do you believe you recognize who that person is? I believe that is Tyler Robinson.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_07

Where does he go from there?

SPEAKER_06

Uh he heads out of the parking garage on foot, uh, into the campus. Um, and actually goes to the quad area of the campus. Uh that time he makes contact with uh some representatives from TP USA. Sorry, the the amphitheater is is what I've previously referred it to.

SPEAKER_07

So he goes up on campus, visits the the the amphitheater area, the courtyard or quad. Correct. Um and and then what do we see here now?

SPEAKER_06

Uh he returns on foot back to the same vehicle. And what time is he returning back to the vehicle? Uh it's uh about 9 25 a.m.

SPEAKER_08

By the way, Tyler Robinson and the video and footage of him were identified also by his parents as being Tyler Robinson. Don't worry. Right.

SPEAKER_02

And his heart. All right, we can stop the video.

SPEAKER_09

All right.

SPEAKER_02

She says he wasn't there. So says he wasn't there. There's a video of him with the clothes matching. He goes to his car, they run a tag, the tag goes back to his car. His parents ID him, okay? As the man in the video. But this woman can get on a show and just go. I don't think it's him, it's a Patsy. And you know, based on what? And this guy, Sean Ryan, what is he, like a former special?

SPEAKER_05

He's a SEAL.

SPEAKER_02

Uh ooh. Listen, I'm thank you for your service. The Navy SEALs, they're incredible fighters. Some are intelligent, some are fucking not. This guy's a fucking retard, okay? Because if he is going to peddle theories like that.

SPEAKER_10

Well, yeah, well. I agree with you on that. Yeah, of course we do. I wonder why you don't like them. You know? Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um the little hat. Yeah, yeah, I got you. You you gotta, he's got he hang, he likes a couple of us Jews. You know, I'm just messing. These two. Michael Dye is not anti-Semitic. I am just joking with everybody. But and and Ben Shapiro annoys a lot of people. You know, but um it's just it's the eyebrows. This guy, Sean Ryan, the fact that you that they're just fueling this bullshit at the expense of this guy is just pathetic. We watched this guy get remember we did a whole segment. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05

Me and you did the segment about the angle of the bullet, right? Bullet trajectory, the types of things.

SPEAKER_02

You still think it was from behind or the side or multiple shooters.

SPEAKER_05

I have not seen, I've paid a little bit of attention to this. I still haven't seen anything which would get me to conclude it was anything other than the whatever his name is. Tyler Robinson. Yeah, Tyler Robinson. I was about to call him the furry fucker, but the Tyler Robinson. If you're playing Clue, it would be Tyler Robinson on the roof with the 30-6.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. And this is Michael disbelieves everything, right? And it's like in your face. Like it's in your face. There's nothing. And this gets even crazier. Play the Jesse on have you seen this Jesse on Fire douchebag? No. He's got a huge following too. Play the Jesse on Fire Dan.

SPEAKER_05

He talks about mixed martial arts mostly, and he's okay with that. But he's kind of oh god, so what?

SPEAKER_02

It's like Joe Rogan. I like Joe Rogan for some things. Yeah, some things he's a fucking idiot on, you know? Not qualified. Play the Jesse on Fire Dan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think this thing is a hoax. I don't believe that Charlie's dead. The standard pushback that I get has always been so what? Charlie's just gonna take himself and live like in the in the wilderness, and he's never gonna see his wife and kids. I'm like, what are you talking about? Charlie's a wealthy person. Charlie is is in in league with the most powerful people in the world. Charlie would be in a self-sustaining 25,000 square foot, you know, doomsday home in Montana, and his family is there with him. They're homeschooling their kids, they're all there, they're interacting with all the top people all the time. Charlie's still running TP USA. That is exactly why Erica becomes the CEO absolutely inexplicably for any other reason. How would she become the CEO immediately after that?

SPEAKER_09

It's all feelings, like but facts don't matter. There's no attempt to you know establish any of what they say. It's just how they feel.

SPEAKER_02

But they get views and people parrot it to me. Well, then yeah, it's it's that's scary. Oh, did you hear? I I heard he's in Montana. Uh yeah apparently he's in Montana. What's your take on that, Michael Dye? That's stupid.

SPEAKER_05

I'm I'm not calling it retarded because there's uh people in my family that are retarded that are much smarter than I. Um I thought he was gonna say because it's politically incorrect. Uh but the the thing is, I mean, I I don't know how you come up with he's not dead or uh what what evidence that you have that he's living in a doomsday bunker in Montana. You know, if you remember what was it, um on Walden Pond, uh throw. Remember, and he it was about when he like isolated himself for a year and he basically came to the conclusion that even when he was isolated, societal expectations still drove his daily life. Right. You know, people are meant to be social creatures. Um living in a doomsday bunker with uh just a limited amount of interaction that would drive anybody crazy. Well, first of all, it's it's just dumb.

SPEAKER_09

First of all, well, so that's your reason for debunking. I'm just gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02

Well, how you're not the fact that we watched it. Charlie likes hanging out, right? He likes hanging out.

SPEAKER_09

There's no way he's living in the world.

SPEAKER_02

We watch the most vulgar, obscene assassination in front of our eyes.

SPEAKER_05

I'll tell you this the the the thing the reason I disbelieve it is because there's no evidence behind it. And it doesn't make sense. Yeah, that's the reason. It when it doesn't make any sense that somebody would isolate themselves in a doomsday bunker and giving it up.

SPEAKER_09

I'm still back on on Walden Pond. Yeah, I know. I saw your face, you got it. How about it's it's on Golden Pond and then Wall just Walden Pond. It's not on Walden Pond. But I got what he was saying.

SPEAKER_02

Dude, everybody said it was 15. Yeah, I got it. He mixed the movie with But no, but the point is, is like I'm hung up on the fact that I watched him get shot. Yeah, that was terrible.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I watched it. I saw it once. My son was driving the car together.

SPEAKER_02

That's all you should have watched.

SPEAKER_05

He goes, Charlie Kirk's dead, and I'm like, really? And I'm like, did they announce it? And he said no, and it held it up, and I was like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_02

That's exactly what I thought too. I did the same thing. Once I saw that once, yeah, yeah. I was like, and apparently in the in the in this preliminary hearing, the the judge winced. I saw the face. Did you see it? You didn't see it?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, I did. Yeah, it was yeah, he was brought me right back to the scene.

SPEAKER_02

Nobody wants to see it. It's disgusting.

SPEAKER_05

That was you know, websites that have like all sorts of gore and stuff that are breaking it down. And it's like I can't watch that stuff.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, yeah. That made it real. That made that made gun violence real, that that shot on live TV. Yeah, that was fall off the chair and it was just terrible. But can't get out of my mind.

SPEAKER_02

So let's just let's do some of the evidence they showed. Uh I think I'll I'll let you handle the interview because I didn't watch the interview with the uh with the the boyfriend. I think that's the very most damning piece of evidence. Well, the first if you could show a picture of the phone text. So they get the guy's phone, all right. We're not gonna we're gonna read the transcript later, but see, this is Tyler Robinson texting the what's the guy's name? Twigs. Twigs, right. Texting Twigs. Can we show the transcript and the photo? Let's see, yeah, let's see the photo first. Let's see if I can read this here. I'm still okay. I'm stuck in the uh, you weren't the one who did this, right? This is where you ask him, you weren't the one who did this. First he tells him, look under the keyboard. And under the keyboard he finds a note, I understand, that says something like, if I get a chance to take out Charlie Kirk, I will, right? Yep. So he goes, You weren't the one who did this, I am, I'm sorry. I thought they caught the person.

SPEAKER_09

And that was actually the note said, I'm sorry to interrupt. The note said, I have a chance, I have a chance to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm gonna do it. Got it, right?

SPEAKER_02

And then this. What he talks about is listeners and viewers, when right after it happened, they tackled some guy, and and they everybody was like, Oh, they got the guy.

SPEAKER_05

It was a it was an old guy who was like, I did it, I'm the one who shot him. Right.

SPEAKER_02

He was like saying and he was standing weird or something, but it wasn't him, obviously. Um and he says, I had planned to grab my rifle from drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. So he left his rifle and he's trying to get his rifle back and he's talking about him. Why? Why did I do it? Yeah. He says, I had enough of this hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to achieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it yet. How long have you been planning this? He asks. Robinson says, a bit over a week. I believe I can get close to it, but there's a squad car parked right by it. I think they already swept the spot, but I don't want to chance it. Robinson, I'm wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my old man would do if it didn't if I didn't bring back grandpa's rifle. And if I if I uh I don't know what that says, I don't know if it had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about prints. I had to leave it in the bush where I changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring it with. I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find prints. How the fuck will I explain losing it to my old man? Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in the towel. Remember how it was engraving bullets? The fucking messages are mostly a big meme. If I see notices bulge uh UW on Fox News, I might have a stroke. All right, I'm gonna have to leave it, and that really fucking sucks. Uh people are saying that this is fake. Listen, you and I, we see shit like this in crimes all the time.

SPEAKER_09

I think it was within a couple of days he voluntarily turned over his phone. This wasn't something that showed up later.

SPEAKER_02

This is fucking real. This guy's trying to get his gun back. Yeah, he he references the engravings to sit here and say this was some hoax where someone thought out and sent this text message to a fake person and talked about grandpa's gun and all this. It's too much shit to connect. Like it just that's not reality, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it's all and then go ahead. All of the conspiracy theories that I've been hearing involve these just random points all over the place. Right. And it just there's no logical, you know, uh there's no logical chronology of events.

SPEAKER_09

Right. I mean they're not gonna be able to debunk this text message. This guy's going fucking down. I mean, it's right there. You weren't the one who did it, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I'm the one that did IMC. And I heard, and I'm not gonna name names. And he said it's like a big thing. Someone said to me, Do you think that tech the text messages look like someone his age texting? Well, yeah, but like some kids text in abbreviations, there's abbreviations in here, but the to fucking stage this conversation, to think this out as some kind of a plot, it's just ridiculous. And and the engravings and all that's just not what happens. Now like people that watch movies and live in that room, we live this shit. Yeah, we know what real shit is. This is real. Yeah, I can tell you this is real. Can you show the next text? What's the next transcript? I think it has more on it, Dan. No, no, the one, the the full transcript.

SPEAKER_05

I am stuck okay.

SPEAKER_02

I'm still okay, uh that won't be in the transcript.

SPEAKER_09

Look under my keyboard. What? Yeah, this is it. Where is it?

SPEAKER_02

Look under my keyboard.

SPEAKER_09

And he reads the note and then it begins.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, what do you do? Look under my keyboard, but looks under my. I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it. You said you're joking, right? I'm still okay, but I'm stuck in Aurum. What does Aura mean? I don't know. Uh shouldn't be long until I come home. I gotta grab the rifle still, to be honest. I'd hope to keep the secret till I died of old age. I'm sorry to involve you. That's it. Okay. All right, so we have that. Uh and then you weren't the one who did it, right? I am. Yeah. Jesus. Sorry. Right? So then we go to the engravings. Can we do the engravings, Dan? All right. This was engraved in the actual cartridges. Yes. You saw images of this. People said it was fake, it was AI. They are now presenting this in a preliminary hearing. You are not presenting AI fake pics in a preliminary hearing, okay? Anything that's coming into this courtroom is 99.999% fucking real. Okay. And if it's not, it will be scrutinized by defense counsel. Okay. So this is what the guy puts in there. It goes right to his intent, it goes right to his motive, right? Like the guy there is he was he's gay, clearly. Is he a trans? Somebody was like somebody was a transit.

SPEAKER_09

Uh Twigs, the the lover is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Transvestites.

SPEAKER_09

Sometimes he said it depends on who he's talking to.

SPEAKER_02

You know, uh, you know, Charlie Kirk had his very strong opinions about transvestites, you know. Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_05

Transsexual. Transsexual, whatever. I don't know what you mean. Transvestite is a derogatory term.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not trying to be derogatory to any trans anything. I just don't know. Right? I am just saying what I I have no problems with any groups. You know, everybody can have their opinions about it. But the problem is that, and Charlie Kirk, you know, he had strong opinions as a religious guy, but I don't know that he was just saying, like, he his quotations get taken crazy out of contact. Yeah, that's a whole show. They do the same shit with Trump. And they and look, they all have their things, and there's definitely things that I don't agree with and don't agree with, things about Trump I fucking don't like, things about Kirk that he said I didn't agree with and didn't like, some things I thought, but Kirk was a brilliant guy. I mean, the guy could debate fucking your pants off. I watched him do it, and he would go do it respectably, yeah, and never with violence. No, he was not a hater. He was not a hater.

SPEAKER_09

No.

SPEAKER_02

Because you're literally you want freedom in this country, right? But when someone says something you don't like, you don't want freedom anymore. That's right. You want to shoot them in the fucking throat, right? So like it's just who's the more dangerous one, right? Who's the more dangerous one? So first one is notice bulges. Oh, I guess the joke is tired of the jokes, I guess, about Bulges in the Pants, I assume is what that is. Hey, fascist catch. How much more direct could that be? Bella Chow, you know what that is, right? Do you know what the Bella Chow references? The Italian anti-fascist. No, it's the Spanish anti-fascist. Oh, is it? No, no, it's yes, it's the Italian. So it's the anti-fascist, they fought, and it's a big song that they they they played it. It got a lot of play in that Spanish show that was just out um The Heister or whatever, the papers. It was a big show a couple years ago. They put that it it came back in the forefront. And if you read this, you are gay. It's just literally memes.

SPEAKER_10

No way away. Just now, dude. You read it? That's why I had a flash.

SPEAKER_09

I didn't, it didn't even occur to me, but of course to him it did. Yes. Why are you gay?

SPEAKER_10

You are gay. I'm not gay. You are gay, he said.

SPEAKER_09

People that are gay deny that they are gay. I'm not gay, you see. Let me tell you something.

SPEAKER_02

You know what's the best sense of humors? Gay guys. Yeah. They're the best. They're the funniest motherfuckers. And my closest friends that are gay, they're the best. They're the best sense of humors. And they would think not the assassination, but they think reading that thinking you're gay was funny.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah. My brother is gay. He would fucking love that.

SPEAKER_05

He would think that's hilarious. It's dangerous. You can just be like reading something and then the you My older brother, not the one the one you know.

SPEAKER_09

That was weird. Right, right. He was there with his wife. That's cool.

SPEAKER_10

Got a couple lines? No, no, that's my thing. Because I met him with a wife and kid. Yes. Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. But yeah, I'm not judging. But wife could be a transformer. Jesus. Yeah. But bottom line is.

SPEAKER_09

This is important for a different reason. I think that if you just if you're just looking at this, you're like, eh, why who cares? I mean, this could have been anybody. Um but he references it in the text. The roommate does. Right. The roommate said, not only does he reference it in the text. I don't know. Talk to me about the watch recording. Right. Not only is it is it like you said, he mentions it in the text about do you remember when I was engraving bullets? Right, but hold on, let me stop.

SPEAKER_02

Listeners and viewers. So he didn't testify. Twigs comes, doesn't testify in person. There was a big hoopla because defense wanted to be able to cross him.

SPEAKER_09

Yep.

SPEAKER_02

Judge says, hey, it's preliminary hearing. You'll get to cross him at the trial. I'm just trying to see if what he says is relevant. All right. Not the veracity of what he says. Not meaning veracity for non-lawyers, it means that the believability, not the believability, not you know, you'll get a chance to rip him apart later, defense, if you want. Right. This is just we're gonna so they played a video that I didn't watch because it came out yesterday, but it did. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_09

It was an interview with it with Twiggs, his roommate slash lover, who said that about approximately a month before this went down, uh Robinson says to Twiggs, you know, I want to engrave bullets. I have a hunting trip coming up. Uh where's the Dremel? Which is the little tool that's used to engrave the bullets. Okay. It's called the Dremel. It's called a Dremel. Dremel tool. Yeah. A little Dremel tool. And uh uh Twiggs, the the roommate slash lover, said, you know, here's where the Dremel is. You know, just make sure that you don't set off a bullet in the house. You know, that was it. So he they were like engraving bullets for still. He was he said that he had a hunting trip. So he kept uh uh Twiggs in the dark about what his plans were. Okay. So that's that's the way that he was able to s you know throw him off the scent, which was by saying, Oh, these are for a hunting trip I have coming up with my father. And he's engraving hey fascist catch. Yes, and those those were the engravings, and and that was corroborated by Twiggs, who said a month before he asked me for the Dremel. So that's the case.

SPEAKER_02

So it we know if it was him doing the engraving, not the CIA co-op. Correct, not the Mossad, not Erica Kirk. That's right. I mean the level of just the level of depravity of a woman Candace Owens. It makes money, it's clicks. You know, she didn't even, I mean, I'm not this is people you don't have to go to college to be intelligent, but she toasts herself as some like intellect, she dropped out of school. Yeah, and that's okay too. Listen to those, like you don't have to go to college. Most I know a lot of billion people don't go to college. Just at the point, the point is she's a fraud. All right, she's a fraud. She's a fraud, she lies about everything. She is intelligent, and you know, and she she is articulate. I think she's dumb. Uh I used to think that no, because she can articulate, yeah, but she gets caught. She doesn't know how to use certain words. Have you seen the videos of her? She fucks up a lot of words. She doesn't know she's not. She's not unaware of it. She knows how to, she's a fraud. There's a difference. Yes. A con artist can sound however they want to sound. You all three of us know con artists. Yeah, they can sound brilliant, they can pretend they know things. That's what they do. Yeah, she's a con artist. Yeah. I am telling listeners and viewers I defend con artists. For 20 years, this woman is a con artist. You viewers that listen and hang on every word, she's conning you. You're being played a fool, right? So she I lit when she first came out, I'm like, oh, this lady, she's pretty, she speaks well, and you know, and if she's talking about a topic that like you want it to be true, you're like, oh, she's brilliant. Yeah. But then if she hits on something, you're like, wait a minute, that's you like, wait, I know that green isn't blue, right? Right. But green, she's just adamant about it, like, oh, she's a fucking idiot, right? At some point you just realize, and that's what it is with her. But to attack the family is crazy.

SPEAKER_09

Well, and you know, her strong point is that well, everybody was wearing a maroon shirt and light shorts that day. So how can you say it's him?

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, at some point she blamed the Ben Shapiro guy. Yeah. Because I guess he asked his detail to check with Charlie's detail, get updates for me on Charlie, because they were close friends. Yeah. And there's a debate, oh, he was turning on the Jews. Okay. Yeah. But they were friends. Okay? And he's checking on his friend. If my friend got shot, I'd be checking on him every second. I'd be there, right? So she just you know, but what does he tell me about the interview?

SPEAKER_09

Evangelical Christians don't turn on the Jews. Come on.

SPEAKER_02

Uh yeah, I mean, look, he that guy knew more. I watched him debate someone on the Talmud. Yep. People throw Talmud out. That really pisses me off because it's that is like a the rabbinical arguings. It's armed. That's what it is. Arguments. It's arguments, right? And and but he knows them and he read them. And and whenever it's so, oh the Talmud says that they should hate all Christians and kill babies and Muslims. And they just make this shit up, right? So he's which by the way, but I read that. If you ever watch that debate, well, you shut up. If they if they wa if you watch any debate with Charlie Kirk, look that one up because he says, Oh, really? He goes, So you read the Talmud? He's like, Yeah, what book? Yeah. There's three. He's like, Well, which uh he goes, Well, I read all three. Oh, yeah, what which what are the names of the books?

SPEAKER_09

And he just starts Well, really, isn't that but isn't that what happens every time that you you know challenge anybody on facts like that, especially when it comes to the Jews or to Israel or to Zionism? It's always when you start challenging them to give you the facts, instead of just arguing back and forth, you say, How do you know that? Oh, well, you know, I heard that on TikTok.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Sean Ryan told me. Yeah. Candace Owens. Yeah, Joe Rogan said. I had a niece, and I love her to death. She's very smart, but she doesn't know. She's young and she just Candace Owens. And she's conservative, the niece. So Candace Owens was like a conservative channel. Yeah. And now they're this woke right. They're more dangerous than everybody. You know, like they really just bought into the conspiracy. They're fucking whack jobs, you know? And uh I don't even think they have a clear agenda. They're just whack chops. That's the crazy thing. The the far left have an agenda. Right. They have an agenda. Yeah, they're sinister. Correct. The far right, they're just retarded. I I'm sorry. They're just dumb people, right? You got like Jesse on fire.

SPEAKER_10

He's in a bunker. Clearly. Clearly. He's connected to high-end people. He's in the bunker. He's not gonna be walking around like this guy is just I can't. He's in a box. You have your eye.

SPEAKER_02

Watching Joe Rogan's podcast, too. I love Joe Rogan. Yeah. I watched him. No, I liked him as the fucking UFC guy, right? I'm a UFC fan. Like he has no business debating any intellectual anything. The man's dumb as fuck. I'm sorry. He that's interesting. And he's stoned and on Royds, and his head's this big, and he fucking looks like a goddamn alpha fucking ape. You know, I'm sorry. Never read a book in his life. He shouldn't be listening to it. He brings a guy that sounds good. Ooh, interesting. And the guy's a full retard. And you get all you gotta do is Google the guy's name and Nazi. And like you get like eight pages of Nazi shit. And yeah, it's just it's so bad. Now we're at the hard evidence. What did Twig say in that interview? Can you can you give me a story?

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, he he corroborated the text message too. So when when Tyler Robinson shows up at the apartment afterwards, he says in person the next day after the text message came. The next day he says uh to uh Tyler Robinson, he says, you know, was everything that you said last night in the text message true? And he said that Tyler Robinson said, Yes, it is true, and they both started crying a little bit. And then uh Tyler Robinson was kind of like just moving around the apartment, sort of trying to reduce his own anxiety. Right. Um and uh, you know, he basically was saying that he was gonna turn himself in and that that Twiggs didn't want to be there. But he corroborated the the the Dremel story, you know, with the engraving of the shells, and he corroborated uh separately the text message from the night before, where that's twice now he's admitted to being the shooter.

SPEAKER_02

What it's a did has he has Tyler Robinson confessed in a in a statement himself? You mean twigs? No, not Robinson himself. No, no, no, no, no. Just in the text message, but he turned himself in because there was a warrant out for him. Right. Yeah. So his position is I didn't do it, we don't know. He just hasn't given a position yet. But not guilty. That's all we know. He hasn't spoken to anybody. But this guy, is he coerced to testify? He's been giving it. Not coerced. Is he g oh he's given a mm? Can we talk about that? Yeah, talk about that. Absolutely. No, no, use immunity only. All right. So explain what use immunity is.

SPEAKER_05

Well, if the if the state uh subpoenas you to testify or somehow forces you to give a statement under threat of criminal prosecution, nothing that you say in the statement can be used against you in future proceedings unless the state is able to prove that they got it from an independent source other than the statement. But that's a real high bar for them tough to understand.

SPEAKER_09

It's tough to understand. In other words, not only is the statement that he gives under oath inadmissible and can't be used against him, but there can be no connection to any other evidence that they may derive as a result of that statement is also inadmissible against him. But that's a super gray area because you know that's where the fight ends up. You know, where law enforcement's gonna say, well, we independently, you know, found that evidence had nothing to do with his statement.

SPEAKER_05

So then they have to forgive that evidence back and show that it came from a completely different chain of evidence. That's right. And they don't do that.

SPEAKER_09

And he can still be prosecuted. So he can be prosecuted for any evidence of his involvement outside the state. Outside the information he gives. Yeah, but I we've done that plenty of times. Or if he lies under oath, I believe that he loses his use immunity if he doesn't.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I have a lot of experience with that in the federal courts, and and what happens, they generally don't do it. They don't want to discourage people from they, you know, they if they do that and they uh you know they want disc they don't want to discourage people from cooperating, right? So they're not gonna do that unless they find out something really egregious. Or if you lied. You lie during it, it's all off. That's like uh if they find and that could they'll find out. They they they're very good at what yeah, especially the feds, you know, because the the feds, this is a state crime, right? No, it's a fed crime or a state crime. This is being prosecuted, but this is you type. But the feds are like uh assisting in this or heavily involved in the state.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, like the ATF was the one who did the examination of the ballistic.

SPEAKER_09

I believe FBI was involved too. The U.S. attorney's offices of the they were involved in some of the state.

SPEAKER_02

They have endless resources on this case, right? It's a very high-profile case. Yep. So I mean, listen, uh this yeah, this is seems like a very rock solid. And they have DNA on the engravings, right? They have DNA on the rifle on the rifle, right? There's DNA on the towel. And the but the bullet, they did they do ballistics on the bullet that came from Kirk, did they trace it to the gun?

SPEAKER_05

No. Well, that well that's the problem. All right. Explain that the for the casings. Okay, here's what happened. Uh one shot gets fired, the bullet goes into Charlie Kirk's neck. Now, a lot of people, you know, and we went into this before, are saying there's no way that that was a 30-06, and uh the bottom line is we still don't know what type of bullet it was. We do know that the bullet fragmented, and uh there was uh part of the it was a copper jacketed bullet. So they were able to recover the copper jacket, okay, which measured about, I think it was 30 millimeters, which is uh they could confirm that it came from a 30 caliber gun.

SPEAKER_10

Which is what the gun is.

SPEAKER_05

Correct.

SPEAKER_10

Right.

SPEAKER_05

And so but the problem is is that the the bullet was so deformed and fragmented they couldn't do uh like a ballistic analysis for the from the rifling.

SPEAKER_09

Right. The conclusion was they couldn't rule it out, but they they couldn't definitively say it came from that gun.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. But the the problem there becomes people are people.

SPEAKER_09

What did it hit? Where it didn't fragment hitting its neck. No, it did.

SPEAKER_05

It did fragment when it hit its neck, which did leads me to believe exploded. That's it.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I saw the neck. Oh, it was terrible. It just it cut off his artery on the brace of the only good thing is that he died on impact. Oh yeah, he was something that he didn't feel, he didn't know what happened, which was a good thing. But it was horrible.

SPEAKER_05

Like I said, we still don't know what type of bullet it was. There are they do make frangible 30.6 uh rounds, frangible that are just designed to burst on impact. Um, I've never personally seen like a varmint round that was uh made in 30.6, but I'm sure they have it. This was also an antique rifle, so they have low power 30.6, uh low power frangible 30.6. There's a lot of stuff there that um, but because of the bullet was so fragmented, they couldn't directly trace it back to that gun. However, there's other ways to identify. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna be a problem. Uh there's other ways to identify uh, you know, bullets and bullet cases. We know that the there was a bullet casing that was shot, all right, and they can do a firing pen analysis because firing pens are kind of like fingerprints, and they can do a fire pen analysis on the primer. Um the the bullet that they did find the jacketing of the bullet inside was consistent with a 30 caliber rifle, which this was. Um on this one, you know, a lot of people jumped on the fact that they said the the ballistics testing was inconclusive. Um but all of the circumstantial evidence surrounding the bullet trajectory and the where they found it where he was, where he was on the roof, video him on the roof, coming off the roof.

SPEAKER_09

Well, I think that's gonna be a bigger problem than the ballistics. I think that the fact that when the uh the deputy with the body cam, you know, when they were up on the roof and his camera shut off at the very time that they located the evidence on top of the roof, right? The the impressions of the knees and the the elbows on the on the roof, his body camera shuts off at that moment. I think that's gonna be a bigger problem for the prosecution than the other. Yeah, but it gives you something to talk about if you're a defense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because there's not much to talk about. They're gonna talk about what he just talked about. Yes. They're gonna talk about this. Right. And they're gonna try they're gonna try to impute all these different theories in. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_09

Well, they're gonna try to implicate twigs too. He got use immunity. You got immunity, didn't you? You know, so I think that they're gonna try to go after him, but you know, you've got to be careful there too. You know, if you go after twigs too hard, you know, he may give more information than he initially has, yes. Right.

SPEAKER_05

Here's one of the things that when people were talking about the ballistics testing, you the uh person who I guess was the medical examiner, the coroner, whatever they use out there in Utah, they recovered the fragments from Charlie Kirk's body, multiple fragments. And bullets are weighed in what's called grains. That's how you know you'll have like a for a 30.6, the low power ones can be like 130 grain bullets, and they go all the way up to I think 220 uh for the really huge uh heavyweight 30.6 bullets. If there were a discrepancy in the weight of the bullet, all right, when they recovered the fragments, they would have known that. Okay, we only found 60 grains worth of material. This obviously is not a 30-6. The weights appear to be consistent, the jacketing is consistent with the 306. The people who are talking about 30.6 will do so much damage, they're getting I had to tell my son this. I said, Stop getting your ballistics information off TikTok.

SPEAKER_09

Right, right, because getting any of your information off TikTok.

SPEAKER_05

It's always some redneck guy who's like, I went hunting once with the 306 and got a caribou at three miles and went through completely, through and through, and the hole was this big. It's all bullshit.

SPEAKER_10

Right.

SPEAKER_05

Um, you know, we we until they tell us what type of round it was, we just don't know.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Well, I mean, uh it's very rare that you see this much evidence this quickly. This kid uh it was very s I mean that's a but the conspiracy theorists usually well, well, he would have he was so sloppy, he would have been but he he was just a kid trying to do something stupid. There's cameras everywhere, he's on camera everywhere, he's just not a good criminal. He's not, he's not a criminal. The guy never got in trouble before. Does he have any priors? I know now he is. He wasn't though. Yeah. Was he? I mean, clearly there's something wrong with this fucking guy if he took it upon himself to do this, but he doesn't have a does he have a past? Does he have a history? No arrests, no nothing. No. People can argue that he's got him, you know, they're if they were smart, they would argue mental health. Yeah. Right? But I don't think they've even pledged that yet, right? No. Because he's very the premeditation. It's all there. You know, one of the previous things.

SPEAKER_09

The premeditation is insane. Yeah. Started a month before at least a month before.

SPEAKER_02

He's engraving fucking cartridges.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, you know, a month out.

SPEAKER_05

Fascist. One of the things that you know people people want to point to a conspiracy. And well, I'm not gonna say that there wasn't some sort of conspiracy behind this. I I believe it's pretty obvious that there were other people that were in the no and involved.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, stupid Tyler Twiggs, Twiggs?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, well, Twiggs obviously knew something was that's fine. Okay. I don't know if there's anything anything.

SPEAKER_02

You think there was a government agency involved? Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Not going there. All right, good. All right, no, no, just say no. What I'm saying, you said obvious, so that you know, that means what I'm saying is it's pretty obvious that there were other people that were in the no and possibly involved. All right, but that doesn't take away, that doesn't disprove that this Tyler Robinson was the one who shot Charlie Kirk. He's the one who did it. Whether there's more information that comes out later on to uncover this massive conspiracy, whether it's the furries or a governor, who cares?

SPEAKER_10

I think the furries are completely different people.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the furries are the people that think they're cats or something, I think, right?

SPEAKER_10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But the the big thing is who pulled the trigger on the gun that killed Charlie Kirk, all of the evidence points to Tyler Robinson. All the evidence I've seen points to Tyler Robinson. And anything beyond that, we're just not at that point yet.

SPEAKER_02

We never were. We never were, and I don't think we will be. Unless he takes the stand. I don't think he'll take the stand. No, dude, no. Zero chance. No. The only guy that takes a stand is Murdoch. Murdoch.

SPEAKER_10

Yeah, Murdoch, he takes the stand. He takes a stand every time and twice on Sundays. Not this guy.

SPEAKER_02

He's not taking a stand. You know who his lawyer is? No, who's his I don't think it's some big like big wig. I don't know who. Because that nobody's gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, but when you when you're in small, when you're in smaller areas, better to have the you know uh they have the local big shot that's I mean. Yep. It's probably that guy.

SPEAKER_10

Probably that guy, right.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, his family doesn't come for money, right? They come for money as a family. No, I don't think so. Well, I mean, but there's people that are probably donating to his cause, uh like Candace Owens fans.

SPEAKER_09

And then there's also the fact that I mean, i if you're uh On court TV yesterday, they made a big deal that his his his main lawyer, who's a female, uh, was not sitting next to him on the last two times in court, which I don't know. Where was she saying like uh uh there was someone sitting between them.

SPEAKER_02

That's strategy. Yeah, it could be.

SPEAKER_09

Well, we do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like especially you know, we do that.

SPEAKER_05

But yeah. You know, the thing is if you're if you're an up-and-coming lawyer, I mean we've seen it before where people just take on these big cases to get a name for themselves. And um I don't know, like, you know, Jose Baez, I don't know if he ever got paid for the Casey Anthony case, but he blew up.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, yeah. No, I don't he didn't get paid for that case, but he wrote the book.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and so I mean he knew he was a good lawyer and uh he knew that he could uh do something and get a good name for himself, so he took the case and it worked.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_05

So you don't know uh if somebody's taken the case just to get a big name. But if you do something like that, you better not fuck it up. You know, if you get up there and ass out in front of the world, you know, you're gonna be doing document reviews for the rest of your career.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. All right, well, we'll be watching the trial in depth and uh see how it goes. And see how it goes and be covering it here. And I'm sure it'll be a lot of action, a lot of craziness coming out of that trial. I don't know when it is. Do they know when that is? I don't know. You haven't said a date even, no.

SPEAKER_05

Because that the judge hasn't even ruled on whether there's probable cause.

SPEAKER_09

Right, right. To bind the case over. I you know, and Erica's crying in the courtroom, so I don't know how that's gonna play out in front of a jury of how the judge deals with something like that. Right. You know, it's gonna be an issue too. Oh God. She can't keep it together.

SPEAKER_02

So she's been there and crying. Yeah. That's terrible. All right. Well, thank you guys for coming on. We'll be covering it again soon. And uh, I'm sure it'll be a lot to talk about. And uh to all our lists and viewers, thank you for watching two taps and friends. Please like and subscribe to the channel. If you like subscribe to the channel, we can keep doing this and bringing uh bringing new viewership in and covering more and more topics. Uh, we're gonna be covering this topic uh a lot when it starts to heat up a little bit. But thank you guys for all watching. Uh, you can go follow us. We're on Instagram, YouTube, we're on Facebook, we're everywhere. The recording team does a great job. The marketing team does a great job. Thank you guys for watching. Love you all. See you soon. Goodbye.