Ep 032: Marriage, Trauma & Tools Nobody Gives You — Except Danielle Sebastian

In this raw and heart-opening episode of She Takes the Lead, I sit down with Danielle Sebastian—a pharmacist turned trauma-partner support coach—to dive into the unspoken world of being married to someone with unresolved trauma. If you’ve ever felt like you’re walking on eggshells in your relationship, or you’re trying to hold your household together while your partner heals, this one is for you.

What We Talk About:

• Understanding trauma responses and what’s really going on in your partner’s brain
•  How Danielle went from pharmacist to author and wife-care coach
•  The moment her marriage hit rock bottom—and how they clawed their way back
•  Why setting boundaries isn’t betrayal—it’s survival
•  How to decide if healing together is possible…or if it’s time to walk away
•  Parenting while managing triggers (yours and theirs)
•  Real scripts for starting that tough convo when you feel alone in your relationship

Key Takeaways:

• Trauma responses aren't personal—they're protective.
• Love is not about being a savior. It's about being a partner.
• You don’t need a traumatic childhood to have trauma responses.
• If you're constantly trying to prevent the next meltdown, you’re not thriving—you’re surviving.
• Empathy is a tool, not a personality trait. Use it wisely and with boundaries.
  
  

Resources Mentioned:

• DanielleSebastian.com for free calls and her book
• Find her on Instagram: @danielle_sebastian_wifecare

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Disclaimer

Transcript

00:01.85

aboutablonde

All right. Um, tell me what you had for dinner last night.

00:05.66

Danielle Sebastian

Oh my gosh, I made a really quick stir fry from Costco. It was amazing.

00:10.79

aboutablonde

Nice.

00:11.71

Danielle Sebastian

Yes.

00:13.91

aboutablonde

It's actually, and ah it's a, it's the best way to get somebody to say the normal, like the way they normally talk rather than one, two.

00:20.70

Danielle Sebastian

I really liked that.

00:21.85

aboutablonde

Yeah.

00:22.19

Danielle Sebastian

That's a really good, good point.

00:22.25

aboutablonde

It's a, it's a, it works.

00:23.98

Danielle Sebastian

I like it.

00:25.49

aboutablonde

All right. Um, you look good. Yep. You look really good. OK. I'm going to do the intro like on my own, because otherwise I'll mess it up multiple times.

00:39.90

aboutablonde

um But I am going to ask you to introduce yourself, just so that you can, you know.

00:40.01

Danielle Sebastian

Yep.

00:44.21

aboutablonde

um And I'll probably like combine the two.

00:49.66

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah, so great sounds great.

00:50.49

aboutablonde

All right.

00:53.43

aboutablonde

There's um banging outside, just to keep things interesting. Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. But I think we should be okay. Since it's your mic, it'll just be me and I'll probably mute or something and if I need to. Okay. Alrighty. um Let's go. Hi, Danielle. Welcome to She Takes the Lead.

01:15.48

Danielle Sebastian

Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here.

01:18.62

aboutablonde

I'm thrilled that you're here. And I'm really excited about this conversation. um So tell me a little bit about what you do from like, not the bio, the you.

01:28.37

Danielle Sebastian

Absolutely. So i um my journey with what I'm doing right now started about 10 years ago. Now I can't believe it's been 10 years. um But I married my dream guy on a beach in Kauai.

01:43.86

Danielle Sebastian

We had a ah daughter, he had a daughter that we brought in to the family, which was so exciting. And we we were so excited to you know have some other and one or two members join the family from there. And you know the first couple of years were sort of a struggle. And I started to notice some behaviors that I just you know couldn't put my finger on that just didn't seem to make sense.

02:10.03

Danielle Sebastian

there was a deep need to control me and and the environment. It just seems like I was constantly walking on eggshells. I never knew what I would say that would create an extreme emotion that seemed very out of proportion to what the situation was. I also noticed significant insomnia.

02:32.26

Danielle Sebastian

as well as you know a need to withdraw every time there was conflict. So I'd see these strong emotions and then there would be this huge pulling away. And after our son was born, that's when things got worse. And it was only when we hit rock bottom that my husband was able to reveal for the first time to anyone a terrible history of childhood abuse at the hands of the church.

03:00.50

aboutablonde

Wow.

03:01.17

Danielle Sebastian

And I just knew instinctively that this was that thing I couldn't put my finger on, that piece of the puzzle, that if we weren't able to address what was going on there for my husband, that we were not going to make it.

03:16.84

aboutablonde

Wow, that's incredible. That's incredible. And how long between the time that you were married and then into that, what did that happen?

03:20.98

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah.

03:27.17

Danielle Sebastian

My son was born um two years about into our marriage. And then I would say we had this incident. We really struggled through for another two years. He was a toddler.

03:40.32

aboutablonde

Oh, wow. That's I mean, having a toddler in general, in the house plus a little girl.

03:45.98

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah.

03:46.14

aboutablonde

um It's that's a lot, to but to put this on it and have that kind of burgeoning secret and and also good for him for for talking to you about it.

03:56.54

aboutablonde

um That's huge.

03:59.37

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah, and what I know now um that I didn't know then is that why does it take so long? you know Why did things seem to be going fine?

04:10.33

Danielle Sebastian

And then all of the sudden I started to see these trauma emotions. And I found out that this is very normal. um That trauma survivors, really three or four things need to be in place before they sometimes can even you know acknowledge what happened to them, remember in certain cases.

04:29.14

aboutablonde

Oh, wow.

04:31.94

Danielle Sebastian

um and much less verbalize it and they need to have enough space away from the abuse that they feel safe.

04:39.98

aboutablonde

Of course.

04:40.59

Danielle Sebastian

So that's why you see things later in life. They also need to be in a safe situation, meaning usually that they have somebody they trust that can handle the truth. So while it seemed like a burden to me at times, when I was able to realize that, I realized that actually I was a gift to him that made that made him feel safe enough with someone that he could actually address him.

04:49.97

aboutablonde

Wow.

05:06.10

aboutablonde

Wow, yeah.

05:06.59

Danielle Sebastian

The other thing that happens is that they need sometimes there's a catalytic event. um And so that can be a death in the family. It could be having a son who is the same age as you know when the abuse occurred.

05:21.31

aboutablonde

Wow.

05:21.82

Danielle Sebastian

There's sometimes a catalytic event you know that brings the emotions to where they just can't suppress them any longer.

05:24.07

aboutablonde

Yeah.

05:27.92

aboutablonde

Right, right, right. I mean, you know, often i I would assume and, you know, myself included, I i was married um for a long time, um you know, you you uncover something or you learn something about your spouse and, you know, it's, it's you take it in in very careful hands and you hold it and you try to help, but you, like,

06:00.00

aboutablonde

like redefined try to help. I mean, you really, you know, you have a book now, you have, you're a speaker on this. I mean, you're, you, this is your message. Like what made you, what made you go from, I'm going to help my husband to I'm going to help everybody. I'm going to help all of the wives of these men. I wanted to say also, because you're, you're What you do is help the wives of the trauma survivors, not the trauma, the traumatized. And that's an unusual, that's probably, they're not that many people who do that. It doesn't sound like there's probably a support network for that.

06:40.19

Danielle Sebastian

Yes, I had to learn it all from scratch. I could find nothing. And by nothing, I mean there was a couple of articles online. There was quite a bit, obviously, for trauma healing, but just very little for the partners and and the family members who are dealing with this and real life Stuff on what you what it feels like as a spouse. I just couldn't find it and so as I was able to Really just stumble through trial and error. I researched everything I could ah Little chapters in books would be there and I was like I when we finally got to this point where I'm like I think we made it through I think we have the tools and to be able to survive you know all these triggering events. And if we end up having a low in the future, I think that we have the tools to get us out. It was at that point that I was like, I think that I need to put everything I've learned together in a package so that it doesn't take people 10 years to get there.

07:47.33

aboutablonde

Right, right. That's incredible. and And you work with other women who are now um married or partnered with survivors of trauma, right?

07:57.79

Danielle Sebastian

Yes, I work with them individually and it's a step-by-step process that really works. And it really starts with understanding the trauma survivor's brain.

08:10.74

aboutablonde

Interesting.

08:10.92

Danielle Sebastian

What we need to realize as spouses um is that the coping mechanisms that these little kids' brains developed, how they they were changed because of the constant stress and unpredictability and fear that they were under. And they developed coping mechanisms that help them survive their childhood,

08:35.18

Danielle Sebastian

things like I talked about before needing to control whatever they can because they felt so out of control. Things like withdrawing from obviously and even just dissociating of course from their abuse. That's its coping mechanism that they use anytime they feel that they're in danger.

08:53.68

Danielle Sebastian

They also, you know, the nightmares are some of those things that I saw and pushing away, not trusting people. And you can imagine that those coping mechanisms that they use to survive just don't work well in adult relationships, especially if the spouse doesn't understand what's going on and they're taking it all.

09:10.40

aboutablonde

No.

09:13.73

aboutablonde

yeah yeah Right.

09:14.93

Danielle Sebastian

It's all me, right? I mean, I'm not trustworthy.

09:16.52

aboutablonde

Right. Of course.

09:18.32

Danielle Sebastian

I need to be controlled. He's starting to control me. No, he's not trying to control you. He's trying to make himself feel safe.

09:25.74

aboutablonde

Oh, wow.

09:27.38

Danielle Sebastian

So if we don't understand those pieces and realize what those coping mechanisms are in your particular relationship, because there's more than I just described, of course, um then you really can't get anywhere.

09:36.31

aboutablonde

Of course. Yeah.

09:40.71

Danielle Sebastian

And then once you know that, then you can start to separate yourself from those trauma responses and create new patterns and healthier patterns so that they're coping in different ways than they did in the past.

09:51.20

aboutablonde

Right.

09:54.41

aboutablonde

Wow. Wow. That's, and as a, as a spouse or as a partner, I think it's kind of amazing because, you know, there, there's got to be a boundary in there. There's got to be a lot of boundaries that you have to set.

10:07.34

aboutablonde

in order to do that successfully, because I'm sure otherwise you're bleeding into their caretaking all the time. And you've probably, I mean, and women do this kind of often in general is that we're putting other people in front of us anyway. So talk me through a little bit about, ah first about like how you work a bit, and then also about how you create um safety for the spouse to be able to do this and keep their own universe.

10:37.39

Danielle Sebastian

Yes, I have a whole chapter I think in the book that's called getting good at setting boundaries.

10:44.58

Danielle Sebastian

Because that is a key component um to this that is very difficult for spouses.

10:44.65

aboutablonde

I'll read that first. Yeah. Yeah. no Yeah.

10:53.82

Danielle Sebastian

But the bottom line is this, you need to know understand the trauma survivors brain, you need to separate yourself from the responses, but then you need to set boundaries so that you're not taking the brunt of those emotions.

11:07.85

aboutablonde

Right.

11:07.88

Danielle Sebastian

It is a natural instinct when you are constantly walking on eggshells, essentially, when you're afraid of the next shoe dropping, that you try and take it all on.

11:13.97

aboutablonde

Yeah.

11:19.38

Danielle Sebastian

That you try to make it so that none of those stressors hit your husband's radar.

11:26.05

aboutablonde

Yeah.

11:26.05

Danielle Sebastian

that nothing will get to him that you think will upset him, not saying anything that you think will upset the situation. But what I found is that us doing that is actually making it worse for ourselves. And it also is not allowing your partner to create those new coping mechanisms by dealing with those emotions and stressors head on.

11:53.25

aboutablonde

That is a lot.

11:55.35

Danielle Sebastian

That is a lot.

11:55.46

aboutablonde

That is a lot. do So tell me, do you have a background in this? I mean, like, other than a force, clearly, as a person and as a woman and as a partner, um how did you, like, what was your childhood like that you were able to kind of see this also?

12:12.86

aboutablonde

Like, where where was your linking? I know you love him, but where where did you link in um with this experience?

12:22.80

Danielle Sebastian

That's a very good question. um There's a couple of things. First of all, I'm a pharmacist. My profession is a pharmacist. And so I am very good at researching and getting to the meat of you know what I really need to get to and what I can take from it. So what works? um I'm really good at that. And I'm also really good at breaking things down into smaller steps.

12:45.08

Danielle Sebastian

that can be can you can step by step process break it down so that's why I was good at breaking down you know okay how did I end up getting through this what were the steps I needed to accomplish to get to the place that I am now so that's part of it I would say the other part of it is that my upbringing

13:00.07

aboutablonde

right

13:06.78

Danielle Sebastian

We didn't talk a lot about feelings. I had a good upbringing, um but I also experienced you know some of these emotions and not being able to communicate and you know sometimes silent treatment that I dealt with way before I met um met my my husband. And so I think that I'd always taken an interest um in that and communication and had done a lot of background work.

13:33.85

Danielle Sebastian

in that um on my own that I was able to bring to the table.

13:39.37

aboutablonde

oh Amazing. and and Tell me like the conversation, because it's very personal what you've put out into the world. and it's you know it's It's not easy to put personal things out into the world. it's it's You can say, this is I know how to do this, but you've really you know this is not a conversation that you can say, here are the steps.

14:01.44

aboutablonde

separated from my experience. It's really not something that you can do. Tell me a little bit about the conversation with yourself and then with your husband about getting to the point where you as you as individuals, you as partners, and you as a family were ready to share this with the world.

14:21.31

Danielle Sebastian

It was a difficult conversation with my husband, of course. I remember being on this walk and being like, I feel like I need to write a book about my story.

14:32.09

Danielle Sebastian

I made it clear that I wanted it to be my story, not our story or his story, but my ah feelings and how I felt this all came to play because of the fact that I didn't have anybody to go to.

14:34.65

aboutablonde

Yes.

14:46.35

Danielle Sebastian

And he knew that. um So at first he was like, oh yeah, you know, that sounds great. And then of course it sunk in ah to what that really means. And it was a true testament to the work that my husband has done on his healing to get to a point where he was okay with even just putting out there that this had happened to him.

15:06.62

aboutablonde

Yeah.

15:06.88

Danielle Sebastian

And it was also a true testament to the trust that we had built that he trusted me enough to be the one you know to put this out into the world.

15:19.76

Danielle Sebastian

So all the work that we had done led us to this this point.

15:23.23

aboutablonde

Wow.

15:24.81

Danielle Sebastian

But I am a pharmacist and my first instinct was just to put out all my steps.

15:26.07

aboutablonde

hey

15:30.67

Danielle Sebastian

That's easy for me, right?

15:32.74

aboutablonde

I mean, listen, you know yeah people get that get there to in different ways, but i you know that the it does like, this is ah this is a piece of the heart. you know this isn't This can't be stereo instructions.

15:44.72

aboutablonde

It just can't. um I can't imagine.

15:46.26

Danielle Sebastian

It couldn't. And so my publisher was very good at pushing me to get the raw story out.

15:53.05

aboutablonde

ah Yeah, that's amazing.

15:55.76

Danielle Sebastian

And it was hard, but it was also, and as you guys can probably imagine, it was very, it was cathartic. I had put push down how much it hurt, how much pain it was, the fear, the anxiety.

16:13.85

Danielle Sebastian

the worry of what was happening to our kids. it was I had pushed it down and i'm like and I just kind of moved on when I felt like things had gotten better, but i needed to I needed to feel that. I needed to go back and realize how all the work that I'd done and all the perseverance and resilience techniques that I had made, made me get it through.

16:41.96

Danielle Sebastian

And so it was really cathartic to do that. And now I feel like my message, I feel very open to being, you know, letting everybody know this is my story. I've been there and it's a huge part of, of my mission is to be vulnerable.

16:53.87

aboutablonde

Right.

16:58.52

aboutablonde

That's so powerful. And it's funny, that I'm very big on, you know, you're sick as as you're as sick as your secrets, right? Like ah yeah the more shame you feel, it's like the more secretive you are and the more shame you feel about it.

17:10.58

aboutablonde

And generally, you know, I always say this like, basically, we all have these things, you know, God forbid, and, you know, but we all have the secrets, we all have the an alcoholic and their family, we do, unfortunately, all have somewhere in there, some kind of abuse. like There's a lot of these things that are tragically, but not uncommonly. you know The more that I live a life, I find out that there's a lot more. And the more that I live my own life, you know i I have my own you know experiences in traumas as well. And I realized, frankly, that they're traumas. I didn't even realize what those kinds of things were doing. And so you know it's kind of amazing. like

17:54.60

aboutablonde

that's big That's a big enough pill to deal with you your own stuff, but to deal with somebody else's stuff as well and try to find ah you know um a loving place to get to as a result is just, I just commend you entirely. like It's just incredible. It's incredible what you're doing.

18:11.78

Danielle Sebastian

Thank you. And as i read as I wrote the book, and then the book was released, I had so many people, including my sister, um come to me and say, I had no idea.

18:23.97

Danielle Sebastian

I just had no idea what what was going on you know behind closed doors.

18:26.41

aboutablonde

Wow.

18:30.22

Danielle Sebastian

And I don't take that as a compliment.

18:31.45

aboutablonde

Hmm.

18:34.62

Danielle Sebastian

I wish so badly that these people who would have been there for me, who want want to be there for you,

18:41.07

aboutablonde

Right. Right.

18:42.30

Danielle Sebastian

would have been able to help me more. And that is another thing that came out with my story that I wanted to make really clear is that we don't have to do it alone. While these things are secrets and sometimes like in my situation, I didn't know, I didn't feel like it was my story to tell.

19:02.07

aboutablonde

Sure, of course.

19:03.07

Danielle Sebastian

There are ways that you can get support without um violating my your spouse's need for privacy.

19:13.33

aboutablonde

Right.

19:13.90

Danielle Sebastian

And it requires conversations that I never had. So those are some of the things that by writing it all down, I want to be able to help others with.

19:26.08

aboutablonde

Tell me a little bit about how you might start that conversation. Like if somebody was in this listening and you know They're in this and they're they're trying to do what you did and they don't even know how to start the conversation. like what How would that begin for you? What would you advise?

19:44.10

Danielle Sebastian

It's hard when you're a wife and you know how much pain your partner is in to say how much pain you were in. But the bottom line is that it's trauma affects everybody. There are effects of trauma all across you know the friends and family and network and it's okay. And your partner knows that it's hard on you, even if they can't verbalize it. So the first step really is just to say, hey, I'm really struggling here. And I don't have the tools to get us through this by myself. and i But I want to get help. I want to have somebody that I can confide in, but I want you to be comfortable with that.

20:35.81

aboutablonde

Right.

20:36.67

Danielle Sebastian

Let's have a discussion about who that is. And usually there's one friend or family member that they're like, yeah, I would trust you um you know discussing things further with that friend.

20:47.93

Danielle Sebastian

And then there may be some friends that they're like, absolutely no. That is a no, they'll tell everybody.

20:52.46

aboutablonde

but Right.

20:55.66

Danielle Sebastian

So if you can have that discussion and really talk about it, there usually is one way. And sometimes it is somebody who does it, who is separated from it. A safe space would be a counselor. you know We're a therapist. But it's just about starting that conversation. It's OK. It's OK for you to say that you need help and you're feeling isolated and lonely, and you don't know what to do.

21:16.54

aboutablonde

Yeah. Yeah. And, and the the piece that i I mean, that I certainly relate to is sort of the but betraying of your spouse, like the feeling rather of the betrayal of your spouse is very powerful.

21:23.88

Danielle Sebastian

Yes.

21:26.86

aboutablonde

And I, you know, and I sometimes I definitely did this and ah my marriage, this was not a part of my relationship, but i I remember as I was just about to separate And it was ah kind of a surprise to a lot of my friends because we seemed like you know that perfect couple. or the you know And um I had spent a lot of time not telling anybody how I was feeling or that this was happening. He didn't even ask me to protect him, but just in protection of him and the way that they would see him if

22:01.79

aboutablonde

I said something that wasn't like, we're it's not working or I'm unhappy or he's unhappy and I don't know what to do or I feel anything. I was very, very scared to ah say anything because I didn't want to betray him.

22:16.62

aboutablonde

and And frankly, in the end, especially when he eventually did, you know, find a new home address, I, you know, ah the only person I ended up betraying was myself, you know,

22:28.92

Danielle Sebastian

yeah Yeah, I did too. I said some things to some people that ah my husband found out later and it gets a little takes a notch out of that trust, right?

22:43.12

aboutablonde

Right, right.

22:43.47

Danielle Sebastian

And so if anybody could learn from me. From that experience, that that's what I would love for people to get out of this is that it can be done, um but it does require that conversation.

22:54.71

aboutablonde

Yeah.

22:55.11

Danielle Sebastian

it can It seems harder than it is, but if you can just come at it the way that I just said and then have a real discussion about it, that you can usually come to some sort of agreement that you're both comfortable with.

23:01.49

aboutablonde

Yeah.

23:06.42

aboutablonde

That's fantastic. That's just fantastic. So, um you know, I am sure that having children and then and the this the second piece of this is you know you're making yourself whole, you're helping your husband. Let me rephrase that. You're helping your husband to be whole, and I imagine having to make yourself whole as well with this new information and really this new piece of this person that you know so well. And then you bring family and children who don't really have the same coping mechanisms or the same comprehension. how do you

23:41.43

aboutablonde

How do you do that? Like how do you in sort of make sure that they're in a safe space but also give yourselves the space to be able to, you know, work that out?

23:53.66

Danielle Sebastian

that was That was a very good question and it was something that we worked really hard on. It was a chaotic place.

24:04.50

Danielle Sebastian

for our kids to live for quite a while.

24:05.75

aboutablonde

Hmm.

24:08.56

Danielle Sebastian

And we were both able to have discussions with our kids age appropriate, because of course over 10 years, you're your children's capacity changes to what they can hear.

24:19.46

aboutablonde

Right.

24:21.71

Danielle Sebastian

But we were very honest. they When they're little, the biggest thing they need to know is that it's not them. Those little brains, you know, are thinking that they've done something wrong to upset something, you know, to upset people and those kinds of things.

24:29.74

aboutablonde

Right.

24:36.35

Danielle Sebastian

So we have lots of discussions about how we were going through a hard time. Daddy was going through a hard time, but it wasn't, didn't have anything to do with them.

24:47.96

Danielle Sebastian

And it was nothing that they did. So lots of reassurance when they were little and trying to keep it as separate as you could, you know, from, so the kids didn't see, you know, the, the big agar you guys, we did an okay job with that.

24:52.34

aboutablonde

Yeah. Right.

25:03.05

Danielle Sebastian

They, your kids sense that something's going on. So even if you think you're doing a good job, I would recommend that you say, we're having a hard time and we're doing our best and we're getting help.

25:14.07

Danielle Sebastian

But if you, you know, if I just want you to know, it has nothing to do with you.

25:17.86

aboutablonde

Right.

25:18.75

Danielle Sebastian

When they got a little bit older, um we did have a conversation with them about how there's bad people in the world and bad people did things to daddy that he is healing from and that we're trying to hold those people accountable. And that again, it has nothing to do with them and that we're working really hard.

25:42.14

Danielle Sebastian

um on making things better. And now my daughter is a 16 year old and I am teaching her the same techniques that I teach my clients on how to handle the triggers.

25:57.40

Danielle Sebastian

How to separate herself from the triggers, yes.

25:57.75

aboutablonde

Wow.

26:01.36

Danielle Sebastian

And how to set boundaries in some cases. When those things are occurring so you can see how this whole thing has evolved um And come full circle so that hopefully my kids are better able to deal, you know Everybody has triggers right every relationship you're gonna have is gonna have triggers.

26:17.35

aboutablonde

yeah Yeah, wow.

26:20.73

aboutablonde

If you're in the same room with another human being,

26:20.92

Danielle Sebastian

Hopefully they're better able indeed Hopefully they're learning something from what we learned as well

26:23.25

aboutablonde

yeah

26:28.80

aboutablonde

Right. What a wonderful gift that you're giving her. And what a wonderful teenager to receive that and want it and, you know, be in the game about it. That's that's a pretty spectacular, very mature place to be because it's, you know, that's also, you know, it's your mom already. thats And then it's, you know, the information and that that kind of um You know, the the idea that there's trauma in the world in general, and you know it, I guess teenagers are different at this point also, but they're far more aware than, you know, certainly we were in the Gen X universe of that.

27:01.80

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah.

27:08.41

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah, it's been it's been good to see it's also been heartbreaking. I mean, because I'm like, I'm sorry that you're in this position where this has to be a discussion.

27:19.42

aboutablonde

Right.

27:19.67

Danielle Sebastian

But you know, nobody asks for this, you know, to happen to daddy and for this to be the place that he's in.

27:22.87

aboutablonde

right

27:25.23

Danielle Sebastian

And so we need to do whatever we can. you know, to help him heal.

27:29.96

aboutablonde

Right.

27:30.08

Danielle Sebastian

So having a lot of that empathy too for I know this is an adult discussion that I would prefer not to be having.

27:36.79

aboutablonde

I see.

27:37.17

Danielle Sebastian

um But this is really this is where we're at.

27:40.92

aboutablonde

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the truth is, I mean, I'm sure that that's, it's very hard, but also, like, as you said, you know, if you're having any relationship with anybody, there are triggers and, you know, it doesn't I can't imagine that the tools that you're teaching her don't apply to other experiences. I mean, hopefully not this level and um depth of trauma, but um the just the the tools to be able to you know help somebody else help themselves and also help yourself while doing it.

28:17.07

Danielle Sebastian

Absolutely. I've even had clients and I'm hoping this is the case for her where the tools don't just work with your spouse. They work with your coworkers. I have a client who's in HR.

28:29.22

aboutablonde

Yeah, I was thinking that. That's what I kind of was like, you know, you you you use it on the big stuff, but then at some point you're like, oh, okay.

28:37.25

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah, I don't think this is about me.

28:37.95

aboutablonde

Yeah.

28:39.57

Danielle Sebastian

I don't think this emotion.

28:39.61

aboutablonde

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have definitely had those moments it's at work where I'm like, who hurt you? You know, where I want to get mad at them.

28:48.12

Danielle Sebastian

Yes.

28:49.38

aboutablonde

But I'm like, no, this is coming from a real place that's not me or that I put that in the wrong spot or something like that. It's like, yeah, you've you've got some stuff.

29:00.57

aboutablonde

I'm going to, you know, you shouldn't be taking that on me, but you've got some stuff also that, you know, to address trusting.

29:01.69

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah.

29:05.46

Danielle Sebastian

Right, right. So hopefully that's that's the that's the thought.

29:08.77

aboutablonde

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. No, but it and that they also the piece about empathy is a big one.

29:13.74

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah.

29:15.84

aboutablonde

you know It's like empathy. I see it with my kid. you know she's got she's ah She's unusually empathetic. for She's six. She's a baby, but my parents are in our lives, you know and my father's 88 and has help some health issues, and my mom is blind.

29:30.53

aboutablonde

And she's, it it's, you know, that's hard for her. It kind of breaks my heart sometimes because I'm like, I had a baby late. She didn't have, you know, like them young and they're awesome. Even that, you know, like at all the ages, but like they're for them too.

29:43.68

Danielle Sebastian

Ah.

29:44.61

aboutablonde

But she's, as a result, gained this empathetic eye that most six year olds have no idea what's going on.

29:52.28

Danielle Sebastian

Ah.

29:54.92

aboutablonde

You know, she was on a

29:56.10

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah.

29:56.65

aboutablonde

a seesaw a couple of like two weeks ago. And she saw a little girl crying by the seesaw and got off her seesaw to go check on the kid. And I was like, ah you know, it's it's a ah empathy is such an underrated quality and a human being because you don't get paid for it and you don't have accolades for it. But, you know, a lot of what you're doing is is is about empathy. I i would think, you know, it seems like

30:26.86

Danielle Sebastian

It really is.

30:28.03

aboutablonde

Yeah.

30:28.45

Danielle Sebastian

ah the I love the the quote. I think I heard it from Mel Robbins when she was talking about boundaries, speaking of.

30:33.73

aboutablonde

Uh-huh.

30:36.78

Danielle Sebastian

But she said, there aren't toxic people. There are toxic behaviors.

30:42.33

aboutablonde

Right. Very wise.

30:44.11

Danielle Sebastian

And in the case of the of a trauma survivor, and what I referred to about those coping mechanisms can seem so toxic. It is a behavior, it's not them.

30:55.23

aboutablonde

Right.

30:57.17

Danielle Sebastian

And I think a lot of times we we as a society, you know or there's a lot of, they're a narcissist, it can't be helped.

31:08.63

Danielle Sebastian

Where I think that if we were more empathetic to the fact that often these things are behaviors and not the underlying you know person, I think that maybe we could we could make make better relationships.

31:18.06

aboutablonde

Right.

31:22.71

aboutablonde

That's amazing. That's amazing. um what So my the but opposite side of this, my question is, so you know I date, there's a lot of women who are divorced or what have you, and they they're or or new having new relationships, obviously, like just starting to have relationships. you know I imagine that there is, and i I hope this is okay to say this, but I imagine that there is also the moment where you're like, I can't do anything about this and this is them, to they have to do this and I need to leave. like do you Does that come up as well? Because what you're doing is really like, it's incredible that you're you're um empowering women to be able to

32:10.94

aboutablonde

show up to their they their husbands or their spouse, but I'm sure sometimes it's like, that's not going to work. do Or do you get that? I guess is my question. Do you get it where sometimes when you're working with somebody that you're like, I mean, maybe you're not saying that directly to them, but you're like, this is actually, this is them needing to do work for themselves and you probably can't do that. Is is that something that you've come across or

32:38.32

Danielle Sebastian

Yes, hi absolutely. the the um There is a whole section in my program called, should I stay or should I go?

32:50.31

aboutablonde

ah

32:51.17

Danielle Sebastian

And one of the things, of course, is if it's, if you're scared, if, you know, if you're feeling threatened, those are things where that is, you know, not, not okay. And those are some situations. But what I do is I take the wives through a process of what would, we've made this much progress. Is it enough?

33:17.32

aboutablonde

Mm.

33:17.64

Danielle Sebastian

Is it enough? And if you're still like that, we did make some progress. We're able to have conversations without it escalating, but I still feel very alone. I don't know if we're ever going to connect. I don't know if that intimacy is ever going to be there. Then we talk about what, what would it take for you to get there? What would it, what would it need to change in order for you to get there? And then what, you know, the decision would be made, you know, if you can't.

33:47.89

Danielle Sebastian

So I don't want anyone to settle in a relationship that they're not happy in. We should be on a journey with someone. We shouldn't make them be our journey.

33:58.95

Danielle Sebastian

So really having that, yeah, Jay Shetty, love that.

33:59.11

aboutablonde

That's powerful.

34:02.98

aboutablonde

Oh, wow.

34:03.17

Danielle Sebastian

um

34:04.13

aboutablonde

That's very powerful.

34:04.60

Danielle Sebastian

and

34:04.93

aboutablonde

Yeah.

34:06.00

Danielle Sebastian

who And that's that's ah my my stance on that is that while progress can be made, in some cases, it isn't enough. And what are those for you?

34:17.71

aboutablonde

That's really spectacular. You know, because I think that you really, it it it It feels a little more, it feels out here very binary, you know?

34:28.77

aboutablonde

You're either like, I'm gonna help or I can't do this, but it really doesn't have to be. Is that what I'm hearing?

34:34.89

Danielle Sebastian

It doesn't, it doesn't.

34:36.03

aboutablonde

Yeah, yeah.

34:37.42

Danielle Sebastian

You want to get to a place where there's a more equal partnership. It feels very unequal when you're the support, you know, it feels very unequal.

34:50.46

Danielle Sebastian

And that isn't the goal. The goal is to be on equal footing, to be able to support each other. You also want to get support from your partner.

34:56.63

aboutablonde

Wow.

34:59.53

aboutablonde

Yeah.

35:00.52

Danielle Sebastian

And that's, that's where you want to get to.

35:01.07

aboutablonde

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I have one more question about it. What if you are a trauma survivor and maybe you've done work or haven't, and you see that your spouse are showing signs of something that you recognize, does that come up?

35:20.44

aboutablonde

How how would one handle that? How would one even approach it?

35:26.47

Danielle Sebastian

that if you, if I had the trauma symptoms.

35:30.13

aboutablonde

If the white, it yes, if I was married to someone who was a trauma survivor going through that, but it's also triggering my own trauma because I'm also a trauma survivor.

35:31.19

Danielle Sebastian

but

35:38.49

aboutablonde

Like what would that, I mean, that's, you know, that's gotta be a piece of it.

35:40.97

Danielle Sebastian

Yes.

35:44.01

Danielle Sebastian

There are, it is complicated, um especially if the drama responses are opposite. So one withdraws and one fight, you know, get gets the into the fight mode.

35:51.22

aboutablonde

Okay. Right.

35:57.28

aboutablonde

right

35:57.36

Danielle Sebastian

um And so, but the tools that I give for to but responding to triggers, it's the same.

36:00.39

aboutablonde

hu

36:05.75

aboutablonde

oh

36:05.88

Danielle Sebastian

It really is no good conversation. Nothing good can come of trying to push a conversation when somebody has been triggered, or if you've both been trigger triggered.

36:12.61

aboutablonde

Oh, oh yeah. Right. Right.

36:19.38

Danielle Sebastian

So it's just about diffusing that situation, taking time and I don't know whoever you know came up with the expression of don't go to bed mad, but they clearly were not married to someone who had trauma responses because that is not the case.

36:36.20

aboutablonde

Wow. Yeah.

36:38.90

Danielle Sebastian

I often recommend days if it takes days.

36:43.11

aboutablonde

Wow.

36:43.22

Danielle Sebastian

to come back to that conversation.

36:44.11

aboutablonde

Wow.

36:44.86

Danielle Sebastian

And it seems very counterintuitive, but I promise you, if you can start the conversation in a place where neither of you is triggered and you're both in a calm and better place, then the follow up is much better.

36:47.47

aboutablonde

huh

36:58.45

Danielle Sebastian

So the key isn't letting it go.

36:58.63

aboutablonde

Isn't that interesting? Right.

37:01.50

Danielle Sebastian

It's about having that follow up, but waiting for the right time.

37:06.86

aboutablonde

That's really a great piece of advice in general, I think.

37:12.25

Danielle Sebastian

Yes.

37:12.64

aboutablonde

um Yeah, because just because you're ready to talk about it doesn't mean they're ready to receive it or even go there.

37:20.34

Danielle Sebastian

Most of the time I hear people say, i but it's bugging me. I want to talk about it.

37:24.81

aboutablonde

Right.

37:25.49

Danielle Sebastian

I'm like, well, do you want to talk about it so it goes well? Or do you want to talk about it when it's too soon and not have it go well?

37:30.05

aboutablonde

right

37:33.64

aboutablonde

Right, right. And that's also when that your supports need to come in. Like if you need to talk about it, then you need to go to the supports that are going to support you to talk about it rather than going to the person who's who's doing it.

37:37.37

Danielle Sebastian

Yes.

37:44.84

aboutablonde

That's never going to work. it now It just doesn't ever really work that way.

37:48.87

Danielle Sebastian

You got it. That's exactly it. I have that support built in that person who you've agreed with can be your support during those times.

37:53.52

aboutablonde

That's right. her

37:56.80

Danielle Sebastian

So you're not just sitting there, you know, but just wallowing in it.

38:01.91

aboutablonde

Yeah.

38:01.92

Danielle Sebastian

No, no, you're getting the support that you need, but you're going to have that really good conversation um about what's going on and how you can make it better when it's the right time.

38:12.28

aboutablonde

Wow, wow. What? What? What is trauma?

38:20.79

Danielle Sebastian

That's a very good question. um i I think you know that really, so some some of my clients don't, their husband has never really revealed a trauma history. It's suspected, right? And so I would say if you're having those coping, if you default to those coping mechanisms that I talked about,

38:45.28

Danielle Sebastian

and that they you seem to be triggered by certain things, I would say that that's when these tools can really come into play, despite what the trauma is.

38:58.25

Danielle Sebastian

And yeah I would say that in general, I know some of you know my my husband's history, but there's a lot that I've had to let go that I'm not ever gonna know.

39:07.80

aboutablonde

Oh.

39:10.57

Danielle Sebastian

Why is the fall a terrible time of the year for him?

39:16.22

aboutablonde

Wow.

39:16.25

Danielle Sebastian

I don't know.

39:17.26

aboutablonde

Right.

39:17.88

Danielle Sebastian

I don't know why that is.

39:19.48

aboutablonde

Right.

39:19.60

Danielle Sebastian

But it just is. And so knowing that this is always a bad time of year for him, we can do the things that we know, keep us keep us healthy and keep us on in, you know, in a healthier environment.

39:35.42

Danielle Sebastian

So I would say I don't get so much into what the trauma was, just if you're having those behaviors, why they could be happening, knowing that there might be a trauma history there.

39:44.63

aboutablonde

Right.

39:47.24

aboutablonde

Right. Okay. Yeah. but ah I guess I asked because I, you know, I i have this conversation more so lately, but um there's sort of a low hum of trauma sometimes. It's not dramatic, air quote, dramatic.

40:08.07

aboutablonde

It's not, um and and thank God, let's just, let me just say that. Like fortunately, and you know, some traumas are really just the the venomous of human beings, just like the worst of human beings that have been, you know, affected children in this way or something like that. But I guess what I'm saying is that others I find often, um sometimes there are um people who have had trauma but it's like a low hum because it's not actually, oh, wow. Okay. I'm going to go back for a second. Cool. Um, um, the, the, okay. Low hum where someone is, uh, has had a great deal of trauma and has the, um, but it's, it's never been, um,

41:04.08

aboutablonde

It's not big, it's not big, it's very much present, but it's not big in terms of, you know, I think that often, I will get to this, I i feel like I'm inarticulating, not articulating this the way I want to, but um there's a piece around um when you experience trauma that is, well, somebody else had it worse, so that's not technically trauma.

41:31.99

aboutablonde

and it still presents itself in the same way. It's, you know, you're withdrawn or disassociated, or you have these very specific triggers, or you can't deal with the fault. You know, there's a lot of these things that that are often disregarded because, well, it wasn't that bad, so I'm just gonna leave it alone, that still very much live in your body um and in your behavior.

41:57.59

aboutablonde

Um, is that something that you find in this, in this, you may not, I don't know, but I, I, you know, like in terms of when you're, when you're working with, with the spouse spouses, uh, is that something that, that ever comes up?

41:58.15

Danielle Sebastian

It is.

42:10.76

aboutablonde

I'm just curious.

42:12.54

Danielle Sebastian

Yes. and I would say that I do have some wives who are like, i i don't you know it wasn't some big thing. It was just that they had an alcoholic father.

42:24.61

aboutablonde

Right.

42:24.97

Danielle Sebastian

you know He didn't hit me or hit him or any things that we consider big.

42:28.57

aboutablonde

Yeah.

42:31.00

Danielle Sebastian

but that they felt abandoned.

42:33.81

aboutablonde

Right.

42:33.99

Danielle Sebastian

And so they have these you know coping mechanisms that are seriously seriously affecting their relationship. Absolutely. I don't think there's any big or small trauma.

42:47.45

Danielle Sebastian

I just really don't. I think that we all have some some some issues in our past that we have trouble getting over.

42:57.35

aboutablonde

right

42:57.49

Danielle Sebastian

um And you know the more that it's affecting the relationship, the more I feel like we do, especially as women and wives, we try to say, why can't I figure this out?

43:09.60

aboutablonde

Right.

43:09.62

Danielle Sebastian

I have my whole life, everything else in my life.

43:11.83

aboutablonde

hey Right.

43:12.98

Danielle Sebastian

figure it out, but why can I not figure out this one small thing? Why is this one stupid fight happening over and over and over again and I can't figure it out? Don't worry about it.

43:23.66

Danielle Sebastian

just Let's just try some new tools and create some new patterns and just do it. Just do it. Don't worry about you or whether or not the trauma was big enough to come to needing help.

43:34.73

aboutablonde

right To need help, right.

43:37.25

Danielle Sebastian

That's the issue. Yeah.

43:39.28

aboutablonde

Right, right.

43:39.42

Danielle Sebastian

The issue is just let's try and make a life that we all deserve.

43:43.38

aboutablonde

Right, right, right. That's fantastic. I mean, it's really like, that's such a, I feel like that's such a ah big piece of it. And your book, your next book will probably be how to just have a healthy relationship with your partner.

43:56.24

aboutablonde

Because it sounds like a lot of these in a different scale are very fundamentally necessary to have a healthy, loving, supportive and be supportive relationship.

43:56.35

Danielle Sebastian

Yes. Yes.

44:07.16

Danielle Sebastian

I agree.

44:08.06

aboutablonde

Amazing.

44:08.08

Danielle Sebastian

I agree.

44:09.19

aboutablonde

Amazing. You're spectacular. I just think it's an incredible what you're doing.

44:14.15

Danielle Sebastian

Thank you.

44:14.91

aboutablonde

have

44:15.13

Danielle Sebastian

I'm so happy. I'm so thankful for you for allowing me to come on and tell my story so that nobody else has to suffer through it alone like I did.

44:25.27

aboutablonde

Yeah. Yeah. We do not have to suffer alone. We do not have to suffer in silence. We can, we can be around people and also have support while we work through our stuff.

44:35.54

Danielle Sebastian

Yes, 100%.

44:35.90

aboutablonde

For sure. For sure. so tell me so So tell us where we can find you. Also, where we can find the book. that That's a big one.

44:45.13

Danielle Sebastian

Yeah, so my website is the best place. It's where I have all my repository of resources to help people.

44:51.62

aboutablonde

here

44:52.55

Danielle Sebastian

So, and it's easy, www.daniellesevastian.com.

44:57.74

aboutablonde

Got it.

44:57.85

Danielle Sebastian

I offer everyone, if this resonates with you and you are wondering if this could be that piece of the puzzle that you can't put your finger on in your relationship,

45:10.15

Danielle Sebastian

that I have for everybody a free call. A free coaching call where I talk about what you're experiencing and whether or not this could be what's going on and I give you real life tools to help you deal with some of those patterns. So I offer that. It's right on my website. You can book a call. I also have other free resources there. I have a page for my book, but you can also get it on Amazon. If you put my name in there, then my book comes up.

45:36.19

Danielle Sebastian

um Same thing and you can purchase that and hear my story in deep, deep detail.

45:41.43

aboutablonde

Amazing. and We love that.

45:43.35

Danielle Sebastian

thanks

45:43.73

aboutablonde

Amazing. Thank you.

45:44.31

Danielle Sebastian

in

45:44.77

aboutablonde

And and social media, do you are you do you do social media?

45:48.49

Danielle Sebastian

Instagram and Facebook, Danielle Sebastian underscore wife care.

45:55.46

aboutablonde

Oh, I love it. Okay.

45:56.76

Danielle Sebastian

Thank you.

45:57.22

aboutablonde

Well, thank you so much. This has really been very eye-opening and such a it's such an important untouched area. So thank you for coming on and talking to me. It's been great.

46:08.45

Danielle Sebastian

What a wonderful conversation. I loved it.

46:11.33

aboutablonde

Good. Thank you. Same. All right.