Episode 10: Sound Waves: A Family's Experience with Cochlear Implants

In this episode of Hear Me Out, hosts Niki Lampi and Tamara Pogin of the Masonic Children's Clinic for Communication Disorders welcome Amanda and Kevin Sutherland. They share the inspiring story of their son Reid, who was diagnosed with sensorineural hearing loss as an infant. Reid's journey included early interventions, the use of hearing aids, and eventually receiving cochlear implants in 2021. The family discusses Reid's experiences with therapy at the clinic, the PACC program, and his adjustments to cochlear implants. They highlight the crucial role of early intervention, collaboration among professionals, and the supportive environment at the clinic. Reid is now thriving and actively participating in various activities, showing significant progress in his communication skills. The Sutherlands express their gratitude for the clinic's services and their impact on Reid's development.

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to Hear Me Out, the official podcast of the Masonic Children's Clinic for Communication Disorders. This is the place where we dive into all things related to communication disorders and how we can best support the kids and families affected by them. We will be talking with speech language pathologists, clinic staff, families and donors to share stories, insights, and the impact of providing free speech, language and hearing services to children across our community. I'm Niki Lampi speech language pathologist and director of the clinic, And I'm Tamara Pogin, also a speech language pathologist with a focus on working with autistic children and their families. And we are your hosts. We're so glad you're here. We wanna welcome Amanda and Kevin Sutherland here today to talk about Reed. He was a client here at the Masonic Children's Clinic a few years back. We found out from dad that he graduated in December, 2021, but Reid has a sensory neural hearing. And had hearing aids and then received two cochlear implants in 2021. He was seen here for speech language therapy and audiology services, and was also a part of the PAC program. So welcome you guys. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you coming here. when we were reminiscing. He's, Reid is such a dynamo that I'm like, I remember Reid we're like, he graduated in 2021. So this is a blast from your past. So we'll definitely want to hear about what he's doing now, but usually we start with your story or Reid's story. Can you tell us about Reid and how you found out about his sensory neural hearing loss? Yeah, definitely. Reed was probably, I don't know, around 12, maybe almost 12 months old. And I was in an ECFE class and speech language pathologist had come and told us, you know, your child should be having so many words at the sage. And I was like, well, he's not even really babbling. So I did have Help me Grow come out and see him and one of the deaf and hard of hearing teachers did a, tested his hearing and he did fail in his, I can't even remember now, lefty. I don't remember either. Yeah. We went ahead and proceeded to go to ENT and he ended up having severe hearing loss in one of his ears, which was kind of a shock. We weren't expecting that. So did you have any other signs that he was having trouble hearing other than the not b or not having any words at that point? No, we, we thought he heard. Okay. Our only other thing was when he was born, he did fail his newborn hearing screen probably. Three times, and I guess he should have been referred to ENT after the second. Second time. I think it was either the second or third time. But because we had switched hospitals, like he was born in the cities and then we moved up here, I think it was kind of just missed in that area. So we're not quite sure if he actually had hearing loss at that point or if it developed later on. Okay. But that was your first clue that, oh, there's something that's. That we need to get checked out. Yeah. Yep. Well, that's really nice that you had access to that education from ECFE, that's the, the public school system that you were accessing for early childhood and family education, and you're like. Doesn't hurt to check it out. And so you went through the school system to find that, and then the school referred you to their audiologist? Actually our physician, referred us to through audiology. Okay. Through the clinic or whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah. And then he had tubes at the same time that they did a ARB So they sedated him, checked his hearing then, and then they confirmed that he had severe hearing loss in his. We can't even remember now. It's been so long. Left or right here. Mm-hmm. So he did start out with just hearing loss in one ear. Um, and, and he had tubes at that time too. Yes. So was there fluid in his ears? Did they think that that was part of what was going on? Yeah. He had had frequent ear infections, so they're hoping that might have been what was happening causing some of the hearing loss. Okay. But I'm pretty sure they did the A BR after they put the tubes in. So I'm sure that fluid had been drained at that point. Mm-hmm. And I believe it was Melissa Buck who was our deaf and hard of hearing teacher who told us about the Masonic Clinic. And so she helped us get on the wait list. And I think at that point it was like. I dunno, it was insanely long, I wanna say like 18 months or something. I don't, I don't remember. Yeah, that was probably when you started, um, getting on the list. That was probably no, 2019. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. So that was prior to us gaining at least two more mm-hmm. Therapists. So that makes a lot of sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, but you, you got on the waiting list, you said, okay, that's what we're doing, and then we're doing, getting these other therapies started for him. Did you get him when did he get aided? It was probably pretty quickly after we got the confirmation that he had severe hearing loss in one year. And then we did have help me grow. They continued to see him like for speech therapy and everything. Um, and it was super beneficial, but it's also not as intense, I feel like, as here. Uh, so it was very. Exciting when we got into here and that we could, make more progress coming more frequently and just more one-on-one care. Mm-hmm. So when you were on the waiting list, is that when you were part of the PAC program, the parents and children communicating? Or was that at the same time you started therapy? You know, different families are on different schedules with that. Same time. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So, so definitely a lot started off with more intensity with the parents and children communicating is the five week program that is two hours long where you get the, the parent education in the beginning, well, there's some fellowship and then parent education in the beginning, and then there's time to practice those strategies with the child. And so that was going at the same time as, as probably one or two times a week, one-on-one therapy with a therapist, right? Yes. Yes. Okay. Correct. Yep. Yeah. So, yeah, that is quite intense. Yeah. For a jumpstart. Wow. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. It's, you know, you wish that more people had the opportunity to have that much therapy at once. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Good. What did you think of the PAC program? We liked it. If you remember it. Yeah. It was a while ago. I think it was a good thing to connect with like other parents too. I know like you're not the only ones that have like kids with like hearing or not just I think that not all of 'em had hearing loss, but like I think they were all late Talkers. Talkers, yeah. Is the ba is the basis of it. Yeah. So and so some people know the reason which you were thinking it was probably Reed's hearing loss and other people aren't as Sure. Yeah. Yep. But it was nice to know that we weren't the only ones that had a child that wasn't meeting that milestone too. Mm-hmm. And the PAC program for you guys, was it during the COVID time where it was the smaller group? Or did you get in before COVID? I don't remember. We were up in that Ro I, I swear there was only like, I dunno, five or six. Couples maybe. Oh, then that's before. That's because we usually have only about five or six. That's before we had to break it down to two. Oh, okay. Maybe three as things loosened up a little bit. But for a while it was just, well, for a while it was none. And then it was too long. It must have been right before. Yeah. Yeah. I remember him. I remember him in PACC Yeah. And then from what you remember how did Reed respond to therapy, not just like with. Goals of like speaking intelligibility and speaking words. But how did he respond like to the therapist and like the activities that we do here? Like what did you guys notice about that? Him and Reid had Nancy Uhhuh and she was awesome with Reid. Mm-hmm. And I would say he looked forward to every time he came to his speech class, I think, did we do two days a week Probably. Yeah. Yeah, I know he looked forward to it. Yep. Him and Nancy got along really well. She always entertained them with her games and activities and Yep. Yeah. She's fun. Yep. Yep. And they're always thoughtful. Like it's, it's, it's playful learning. Yes. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He, she had a lot of good ideas too. He's kind of a. I don't know. Sour patch kid in a way. And like I didn't always wanna leave, so she had ideas on how to make transitions easier for him. 'cause in general that was a big thing. And um, I always appreciated her advice and helpful hints for him. Mm-hmm. Because it's the whole child. It's not just. Him being able to speak more clearly or have more vocabulary. It's, it's his whole being and which is also, it's okay to leave 'cause you're coming back next time kind of thing. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. And now did he have both cochlear implants when he started here? No, I don't. 'cause he got the first one in August of 2021. Okay. So he just had, or was it No, August of 2020. Was it? I don't remember. I thought. I was thinking he didn't get implanted until after he graduated from Masonic. Well, you thought it was in 2021. So he, he just had hearing aids because he graduated from Masonic, you said in December, 2021. That's right. Yep. And so he must have had one then at least one cochlear implant in one. Yeah, he might, he might've had one. He might've had one. It was in, um, it was in 2020 that the audiologist through the school system had like, checked his hearing and said, I really think he has like some mild hearing loss in his good ear. Um, but our clinic audiologist disagreed, so we had to get a referral to children's down in the cities. And of course it was a second opinion and they weren't doing second opinions at that point. So it took us quite a few. Months to get in. And he was very inconsistent once we got in with like booth testing and everything. And so then once we did an ABR she did confirm that he had, like at first it was mild, but then within the span of probably like three months, he ended up with severe or profound hearing loss in both years. So, oh, so that's, we went from like, yeah, just having like bilateral hearing aids to hearing, he needs cochlear implants and probably. Three or four months. And so that was something that the audiologist at Masonic was kind of monitoring as they, she had like periodic appointments and was noticing this downward turn. Yeah, it was actually the school district audiologist. Okay. But she worked in collaboration. I think it was Linda that was here with her, so they would talk too. So that was a pretty rapid progressive loss then for him? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How did he react to it when, when what he was hearing was changing so quickly? You know, I don't know if we really noticed that he couldn't hear or that he could communicate that he couldn't hear as well. And maybe for him it was more behaviors, looking back at that. Sure. 'Cause he did have a lot of, you know, yeah. I wanna say like meltdowns or, you know, cope issues. Coping with things. Big feelings. Yeah. Big feelings. Exactly. Yeah, and it's hard because they don't, when you're little, you don't have the language and you don't know what should be versus what is. Mm-hmm. So you just kind of are frustrated if you're not. Able to. I always that way with my glasses. I got glasses in kindergarten and I didn't know, I couldn't see until I got my glasses and I was like, wow. Yeah, I didn't realize everything had been so blurry. There was missing. Yeah. Yeah. He was in implant in August of 21. His first Okay. The first one, so yeah. And then of course that the whole process of, of implantation, you get implanted, but then it doesn't get turned on. Yeah. It was only, I think we only had to wait a week. Nice. For fast wasn't a week. I think it wa a week. Yep, yep. So that was originally, they were thinking about doing both sides at one time, but we were a little bit nervous about that, you know, 'cause just totally turn off all of his sound for a week, so we decided to go one ear first. I forgot. Right here. Left ear. Can't remember now. I know. Anyway, but he did one at a time. Yep. One at a time. He responded really well to the first, implant. So that means that this, the new sounds that he was hearing made sense to him. Yep. And he was able to adapt really quickly. Yep, yep. Yeah, we were nervous he was gonna tear him off right away. Right. Because it sounded different. Mm-hmm. He, he's, he wore 'em the whole time. Yeah. We were down there. He's never, disliked him. So that's, and he had this at Children's? Uh, that was at Mayo. We actually At Mayo. Wow. We actually ended up going to Mayo because they activate the implant a lot sooner than Children's. Okay. I think Children's was a month. Mm-hmm. And because they were like. You know, we have to wait for the incision to heal. And then Mayo had done some new research that it didn't really make a difference if they waited for it to heal or if they turned it on sooner for, for some adults, I think they activate the same day or the next day. Oh, wow. Something like that. So that was pretty, that's pretty much what sold us on going to Mayo. Mm-hmm. Besides being male. Yeah. Well, right, right. Such a good reputation. Yep. And like you said, having him be, a month without anything in that one ear would be. Right. I'm sure frustrating for him. How did he respond then, once it was activated? Yeah, I did. Did he notice it, you think? Or I wouldn't say, say it was like, you know, where you see those videos on, on like Facebook or whatever that are like, oh, I can hear sound, and they're like smiling. Like it wasn't that type of, you know, I don't, I don't think we really noticed until like later on. Yeah, he didn't like, like I said, he never tore 'em off, you know, like mm-hmm. He'd get these off of me, I, and it was certainly an adjustment for him, but he, uh, he responded pretty good over time and, um, and now he wakes up in the morning, he puts 'em on, he. Routine. He does. He does like the times where he has 'em off, little break from sound and, oh, we heard that from another parent too, that their child was Yeah. When they were done. Yeah, when they were done listening, they take him off like, I can't hear you, but for the majority of the day, he leaves him on and, okay. Yep. He does like time in the mornings, with them off little quiet time. Start to adjust from waking up to, you know, getting going for the day and then, yeah. He doesn't take 'em off until he goes to sleep at night. So nice. Yeah. Well, and I think that shows how important it is to have that early intervention, so the earlier you can get them on, it's, it's probably a good thing. It wasn't a huge reaction from him that like, whoa, what's, what's going on now? This is all different. It was just a nice progression and you grow and you're used to it and it's not, not that big of a deal. Like you said, he doesn't. Perceive himself. I think we were talking before, right? We started recording, but he doesn't seem to perceive himself as having cochlear implants, right? Yep, yep. So as he was getting, different services and things like that. Did, how do you guys feel about how Masonic, Nancy and his school team, or his medical team, like, did they have the opportunity to collaborate at all or to do you know how they, they connected? Because I know that Nancy usually. Tries to connect with the speech pathologist or the deaf and heart of hearing teacher. If that, if, if that is the case in some ways, either by email or, or anything like that. Did you, did you get in on any of that kind of action or was it just all behind the scenes? No, I think she like emailed them and I think when the school audiologist was saying like, I think he has hearing loss in his Goodyear, Nancy was kind of saying, you know, they were talking and saying, yeah, I haven't seen him making quite the progress that I would expect at this point. Like maybe something else is going on. Mm-hmm. Okay. So putting those pieces together as a team? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is one thing that we really. Value here is that we have time built into our day to, reach out to a school person and, and they want to too. But then we could say, oh, when is a good time for you? And then we can kind of pencil that in. Whereas they're like a little more like, I have you, you know, only, only this much time. And so we're like, yes, we will call you for those 10 minutes. We got it. Yeah. And so a lot of times we can do that. So that's. Really nice because it is those things about, are you seeing what I'm seeing? You know, are we, you know, on the same level? And sometimes it's actually different. So just that, that sometimes maybe Nancy could get something to happen in an individual one-on-one setting that would be different than in a school setting where a. He either isn't able to do 'cause there's more distractions or vice versa. We might not be able to see him as well as with his peers because he's seen individually here at the clinic. So that's why it's so important. Yeah. Yeah. I like that point that you brought up because, you know, someone asked me once, who's your main competition in the area for therapy? And I'm like. We don't have competition, like we all work together and we all see such different pieces of the children when they're here versus at school. And, school is able to see how they are with peers and in a classroom it's we don't get that here but we can see how they're doing in a quieter environment and really dig into the language piece. So yeah, every place has its purpose. Mm-hmm. what do you feel like were was the benefit or the highlight of coming to the clinic, do you think for you guys, not just for Reid, but for you. What you got out of it. I know it felt like a second home for a while and I, uh, I was honestly so sad I cried I think when we had to graduate. I was like, I'm not gonna find, someone else that is gonna care this much about Reed or put this one-on-one attention that we've been getting. And honestly, we didn't find someone else that, lived up to, like what Nancy did for him. And he did make progress obviously through school speech therapy, but we tried a few other therapists and he never really connected to anyone quite like her. And Nancy's pretty special. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. So what is he doing now? I mean, he's eight. Yeah. So he's, he's going into third grade. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, he's doing really good. What's he doing now? He's not really big into sports. Mm-hmm. Uh, he does some downhill skiing with me. He doesn't, he's not really into team activities right now. We've tried baseball and, uh, he, I guess he got a little bit into track and field. It was kind of an informal league. But yeah, he's. He's a busy, creative little kid. He enjoying being a kid. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Always building things at home and yeah. And two little sisters. Yep. Right. Mm-hmm. And how old are the sisters again? Uh, Reagan is four. She'll be five and October. And then Mave is almost 10 months, so. Okay. And what does Reagan think about the cochlear implants? I mean, she's always known him with him. She's always, yeah, she's always known him with him. Yeah. I don't think she knows any different, she like knows when he doesn't have them on. I was just gonna ask that. Does she notice like Yeah. Switch switching to some gestures here. Excuse me. Yeah, sometimes I'll be talking to him and she'll be like, dad, he doesn't have his hearing aids on. I was like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. That's why he's not answering. That'll help. He, and then we, we did attempt to like to learn some ASL with him, but he absolutely did not enjoy, and this just happened within the last couple years. We're like, well, if something happened and you couldn't hear without them, you should learn sign language. But he is always like, but I can hear. Oh, sure. So it's been, it's been so reliable. Yeah. And so he just has no interest in learning, signs or even watching us do them. Mm-hmm. Um, but it, Melissa Buck said, I've had kids who are like resistant to it in the beginning. Then later on when they get a little older, they ask me to teach them, more sign language. So, so the door is open? Open, yeah. The door is open for him. And the same thing probably as he's getting older, doing some kind of writing notes or anything like that too, as that backup. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. A very big note writer. So, yeah, he has that outlet. You know, when you're little or, and you don't have that ability yet. You're, you are limited, but he, he has another quick way. Yeah. And so you guys, again, we were just off, off recording, but you were saying stuff of the other opportunities that you've had because Reed has cochlear implants that you're heading out to a camp. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. We're heading to Estes Park, Colorado. At the YMC of the Rockies for the Listen foundation, they do a cochlear implant camp for kids his age or around that age group, is it kinda like an eight to 10 or a six to No, I think it goes up to seniors in high school. But they do, they split up the age group, so they have a June camp and then a July camp. So, so is this something, because you said this is something that you've done repeatedly? Mm-hmm. It's our third year. Yep. Yep. And the whole family's invited to go. So they've got activities for kids of all ages, and then the parents get to, get together and collaborate or, just talk about. Yeah. Or experiences and yeah, just a good networking opportunity. Finding somebody who's opportunity, finding someone who's been through. Right. A little bit of what you've got has gone through. Yeah. and then if you do sign up, you gotta sign up right away on the day. 'cause it fills up within like two minutes or something. Oh, wow. Stressful. They only have limited spots and they're always trying to expand too, Do they have that in other states as well? You know, I haven't heard of it. The people that actually run this live in Texas, so people come from all over. Um, wow. I'm, I haven't heard of anything, but I did notice that Cochlear sent out an email and they're gonna be having some sort of family camp or activity, uh, in 2026 in Colorado. 'cause their headquarters are out there, so. Okay. I'd be curious to see what that is. Yeah. One thing we talked about was, having you here to help share your story and help others who are going through similar situations. So if you were talking to a family who just found out their child had hearing loss, what would your advice to them be? I would say, don't look at tomorrow. You gotta look ahead. And also if someone tells you one thing don't always take that advice. We had someone when Reid was first implanted, tell us that, you know, he was implanted late. He'll never catch up to his peers. And, um, that really was like, wow, really? He's never gonna catch up with his peers. But if I could see myself that day and where he is now, I would just be amazed like. I don't know. People always say like, oh, don't worry, it'll get better. And when you're in that moment, you don't think it will. But I am continually amazed where he is today with his speech, writing, everything. That's great. You never know. Yeah. You never know where they're gonna mm-hmm. Where they're gonna end. Right. And find a program like Masonic. Yeah. Well, we love them. We love, we love our kids here. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I do think that was like one thing Nancy was always really good about seeing the silver lining and everything and like, yeah. It's, it's not hopeless. Like there's always mm-hmm. Um, you know, there's always gonna be progress and you'll, you may not, you may take baby steps and then soon you'll see like this big huge step that he made. Mm-hmm. That's great. Yeah. Just like everybody. Yeah. We're not, we're not done yet. We're still all still growing. Yep. Yeah, Nancy and Reid had such a good connection and she was pretty special to him. Special to us too, but yeah. Yeah. What were some of his favorite things to do when he came here? I know he liked to color. Yeah, color some games. Reed likes to do things his way. So sometimes, Nancy, she had a, you know, certain way of doing things, to, get through to him and With his therapy. And if he didn't like, going that direction, he'd, he wouldn't like that I guess. But he likes to be in control. Yeah, I don't know anything in particular. I can't think of. It's been too many years ago. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It goes so fast. Yeah. And then we'd have to ask Nancy to make sure that this is correct. 'cause again, I'm just a, was a therapist that was on the sidelines sometimes, like they'd come to like story time. So a therapist would come with each individual client that they had, and so. what I noticed that Nancy did really well for Reid was sometimes she would have a schedule, but then he'd get to pick the order. Yes. Oh, exactly. And he loved that. Yeah. So it was doing things that she had planned that were going to improve or work towards his objectives, but he's like, I get to be control. Yeah. And so she would bring that. and maybe story time was one of those things. And so we were doing story time together, but then he, he would be like, okay, and now I get to go to the garden, or now I get to go play this game, or something like that. And so that seemed to work for him from what I remember that, the little interaction I had. Yep. Good memory. Yeah, I, I forgot about that. she even made us one for at home, two for getting ready for bed and stuff. So. Yeah. Yeah. Very helpful. and that's kind of one of the things too, that we as therapists just be like, oh yeah, visuals we throw, wanna throw them out like candy. Mm-hmm. But then it's because so many times, right, like you're like, oh yeah, we can try that. And then it worked. Maybe he didn't use it for, you know, he's probably not using it today, but in that time that he needed that. Mm-hmm. It was there for him. I had just one more question. how often does he go in for cochlear implant, like maintenance or what do they call that one? And they, 'cause they change some things around for the processors. Mapping? Yeah, mapping. He does that once a year now. Once a year now. Yep. he was doing every six months for a while. Mm-hmm. And then. I think after he is, had had both of them for a year, then they said it was fine to go yearly unless we felt like he needed to go back in sooner. So he goes, we go down to the mail once a year and they check his processors out and Remap 'em if necessary. he really does enjoy going to see the hearing doctor. That's what he calls her. Yeah. That's nice. Do you ever have problems with them breaking or needing them to be, repaired or sent in for something? the coil part we've had break and I've, it's pretty common, but that's under warranty right now. So usually if you call cochlear, they'll replace it. And then your insurance will cover like extra rechargeable batteries too. Oh, nice. If you call them, and he, I mean, I think some kids have to switch out their batteries halfway through the day. But, it's interesting because every kid has a different type of mapping that can require more power, which I just learned recently because the audiologist was saying, yeah, his like left ear is gonna die maybe sooner than his right ear, so you might have to switch out batteries during the day. And I was like, oh, something to check. Yeah. Something new that he gets to learn about. Yeah. Yep. But he is pretty responsible with 'em. Keeps him charged, takes care of him. You know, he knows if he's going in the bath or the shower, he is gotta take him off and swimming. Swimming. he'll give him to us and we'll put him in a waterproof, we call 'em his water ears, but they're like a waterproof case. You put 'em in and, yeah. He's really, really good with 'em. Takes care of 'em. So his water ears, can you wear them still? Yep. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, we just went to Wisconsin Dells and you'd wear 'em the whole time and, yep. No, so nice. Yeah, it's, yeah, like Amanda said, the coils. Sometimes wear out. I think it's just an electrical connection or something, and they're just, they're easy to replace and we've got one or two laying around as spares, so you get to be experts pretty fast, I bet. Yep. And Reid too, now that he's like probably seven, eight, I do know that we had another family here that they were saying that their child was already like. In charge of them when they got there. Like especially if they did any, like taking out those home ones and putting on the school ones. Mm-hmm. Yep. or if the teacher uses any kind of fm or, or direct to their ears, giving it to the teacher and from the whatever. So does, do you think Reid does stuff like that too? Does that as IEP. Yep. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I think Melissa Buckhead, like they went over it together and added that into him, like taking care of his own implants and once in a while he'll come home with the receiver from school, but not super active. He'll forget to take 'em off, you know? Yeah, yeah. He'll come home with it. You are like, oops, switch out. Yeah. He makes sure to bring it back the next day and yeah, and that's really cool because that's, I his own self-advocacy then to be like, I'm in charge of this, right. This is my, these are my, you know, my way to learn and Yep. That's awesome. Yeah. I'd just like to say I'm really grateful for the services you guys have provided, Reid. It's really gotten a long way to, his. Speech and we're just really grateful for Masonic. Yeah. We're grateful for you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Any, anytime anyone's like, oh, my kiddo is behind in speech. I'm like, well, you should go to Masonic. Get on their waiting list. Mm-hmm. Yes. And our waiting list is better. It has gotten crept up a little bit more recently. We've been getting a lot more referrals, which is good. And then if we get more donations, we can hire more staff and, And one thing that we're really working towards is hiring a full-time audiologist. Cool. Now I think you saw Linda when Reed was here. Yep. And she's retired. And so then we had Amy, who you knew from the school. So she came on board and now this year she retired. So we thankfully have three local audiologists who are helping to fill in. But it's always been just a really staggered schedule. of maybe five to seven hours per week for an audiologist. And we're really, really hoping that we can find a donor who will support a full-time audiologist so that we can help more kids, help more kids, but also help the current caseload have the appropriate follow-ups that they need. Yes, yes. So often like how you were talking about with Reed, with that gradual loss. that was difficult for you guys to catch, but it was caught by the, the differences between the schools and the, and here and things like that. And so that's what we're really hoping for, to catch. And for me I don't have very many clients that have sensory neural hearing loss all but. Those kids that have the fluid in their ears and how they're like, oh, it'll dissipate in three to five months. Well that means we need to get an audiology check in three to five months. And yeah. Boy that's hard to get appointments. Mm-hmm. So we're hoping for, for someone that can be here on staff and catch all those kinds of things for families. So from a family perspective of a child with hearing loss, what is that impact of access to an audiologist? what does that mean to you guys? I think, just having it in coordination with speech therapy, especially someone that, an audiologist that works with kids specifically, because I think that's where we kind of hit a roadblock with the clinic is like Amy had said, they're looking more at what adults hear versus what kids hear. Mm-hmm. Oh, what kids here? So, um, that, that's why she was saying Reid had the hearing loss because he should have been hearing at different frequencies than what adults hear. Mm. I remember when we had a, our. Our podcast with Amy Packer and Linda Kelway, they did talk about the difference between rehabilitative hearing, like after having lost, after already having learned language and having to under and being able to understand it that way. And a child who needs to hear to learn is very different. And and I like how you're saying like with somebody who's focused on kids and has that experience, and so it's, it's not even just that they can be fun because Linda knew how to be fun. Mm-hmm. But it's also the, the knowledge that it's a little different. That's interesting. Yeah. They're not just kids aren't just little adults. They're not just little, they're different. They're kids. Mm-hmm. How long did you have to wait to get Reed in for hearing checks when he was little? I don't think it was a super long wait except for that wait, during COVID to get into Children's? I Now, we're not set up to do ABRs, but uh, we do have. Quite actually, I don't know if you've seen it, but we've had some updates in our audiology booth. Now we have like fancy lights and we have some updated video equipment that grabs a child's attention. Like when I saw the little rainbow chasing lights, I was like, Ooh. You know, 'cause a child will respond to different things. Like we used, we, we used to and still have like maybe it can show a video clip. Yeah. But even then, just some of that, that immediate like. Spinny lights, like, oh, okay. I like that. Everybody's Yeah. responds to something differently, so. Well, and I think we've been so fortunate to have, Linda and Amy, who are so, so good with kids and they just know how. They just know how to get the best from the children when they're working with them. Mm-hmm. And I'm thankful for the audiologists we have filling in right now too, because they're the same. They're just so Yeah. Good with the kids and they understand. And I'm appreciative of the time that they, that they do have that there is no pressure. Yes. The best thing I really liked about Linda here, she was always saying Amy did it too. It was like, we're gonna leave them happy. We will if they start to get a little antsy and they only got one OAE, like one insert tube or whatever, she's like, let's reschedule, let's do the next one in in, in two weeks or a month. Mm-hmm. And you know, and so we don't wanna have it stretched out too far, but also it's like, let's leave 'em happy. Yeah. Come back for more. Right, right. well thank you guys so much for coming in. We so appreciate your time and sharing your story and helping others out there. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. That wraps up this episode of Hear Me Out. Thanks so much for listening. 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