Episode 19: Acting with Purpose: Stage Play’s Impact on Neurodivergent Youth

 In this episode of 'Hear Me Out,' hosts Niki Lampi and Tamara Pogin discuss the 'Stage Play' program with guest Kate Horvath. They explore how this acting class for neurodivergent children uses theater to enhance communication, social skills, and emotional awareness. The episode covers the program's origins, growth, and the impactful collaboration between the Masonic Children's Clinic and local theater professionals.

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to Hear Me Out, the official podcast of the Masonic Children's Clinic for Communication Disorders. This is the place where we dive into all things related to communication disorders and how we can best support the kids and families affected by them. We will be talking with speech language pathologists, clinic staff, families and donors to share stories, insights, and the impact of providing free speech, language and hearing services to children across our community. I'm Niki Lampi speech language pathologist and director of the clinic, And I'm Tamara Pogin, also a speech language pathologist with a focus on working with autistic children and their families. And we are your hosts. We're so glad you're here. Welcome. Today we have someone, a blast from my past Kate Horvath. We worked together a long time ago on a very special project that's close to my heart called Stage Play. So Kate has a background as an educator. She's a BFA in theater. She has 25 years of experience in theater as an actor, an educator, and a director. Welcome Kate. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I love stage play. So excited to have you here. So like we said, we are here to talk about stage play. Kate has so much more to offer us and we hope to get to it as well because lots of irons in her fire. But, I wanted to first let the audience know what stage play is. In case you don't know, stage play is an acting class for neurodivergent kids, more specifically autism. But we have definitely branched out and we started way back in 2009. It was a brainchild of Tahara Bushy, a speech pathologist that formerly worked at the Scottish White Clinic and now the Masonic Children's Clinic for many years. So Tahara had been reading about adapted theater and specifically using improvisation techniques to give autistic adults and teenagers opportunities to increase their flexible thinking, emotional awareness and collaboration in a fun and accepting theater community. But our clinic works with much younger children. And so she was thinking, how do we help younger kids have these same benefits and experiences? So she contacted you. How did that go? Oh my gosh. It would, you know what? It went great and it resulted in a massive success.. No, um, it was actually a really fun story. So, without going too much into it, My mom was a career special educator within the Duluth Public Schools, and had worked with both Tahira and Carol Roberts previously, so I kind of knew of these legends. And the work that the clinic was providing in the community and the, um, emerging research and supports. So I was already kind of like clued in and had passion points for that. And at that point, I was maybe two and a half years in as the education director soon to become the education and artistic director of children's theater at the Dilu Playhouse. And, It was, the program was growing massively fast. We'd gone from like one or two classes and one show annually to a full theater season, and it was growing fast beyond, my capabilities as a young artist with no formal. Training and working in adaptive communities. And so I was already primed and hungry and like bumping up against rough edges of, of how I could be of service in the community. And this was the dream opportunity to partner with knowledgeable, experienced professionals and tie me in, in meaningful ways into a community that I had passion for, but didn't know best how to include support and benefit. And so. This opened the door not only to stage play and then meeting Tamara and then also our future work together, but also to ways that we were able to bring more adaptive practices, more inclusive offerings to the entirety of the Duluth Playhouse Children's theater community. Um, empowering me as a young and growing educator. And also giving me resources, tools, and community support to have my back when I needed it, to figure out how to best solve problems that were in service to the peeps, that we were supporting our kids. So it was an absolute dream that we then concocted out of nothing. It, it was amazing because it really did start with the drive and the interest and knowing that this could be a thing. This, we wanted to provide access because theater is recreation, theater is play, and so that was teera and i's buy-in. So often, autistic individuals have some language delays, have some social delays, and so in that early childhood part, which is where we do therapy, they might not have full access to pretend play. And what's acting, but pretend play poor grownups. I know. And it literally could not be more perfectly suited towards the community we were looking to support, like just the, the obvious inroads, to being able to take something and then turn it upside down to draw out a shell dweller or someone maybe language wasn't where their peers were at. And so to enable them to also engage in play at the same level as. Any other kid. Mm-hmm. Um, was super, super awesome. And we did have, and we'll talk more about this and like how we made those connections between, you know, fundamental theater education, game skills, tools, ways we approach from a craft, from an artistic perspective, how we made that then work within the adaptive space. But I mean, all of that is fundamental that I would take and, and deliver to any child. And so really the more we sought to identify barriers and identify limitations, I'm using air quotes. We can't see 'em on the microphone, but we realized that there, there were none. Like there aren't any that it is, that it really truly is for everybody and we're able just to reframe and it was awesome. Um. But also like the idea of, um, how we were able to bring that even beyond the classroom, but into production, into every aspect of the way we worked within the organization as a children's theater. So, and we did also have kids go on from stage play to participate in full productions in, you know, you know, the traditional chaos of a week long summer camp with like 50 kids. And it was an, you know, sheer insanity. And then watch them like slay. Also, there was a slay. Hand gesture there that you also could not see. But it was a definitely a good hand gesture. I think that's so inspiring and so helpful for so many families to hear that message of this is out there and yes, your child can do that and they can succeed and have fun with it and just get the joy that so many other kids get from those activities. And I think the joyfulness component of it, which we definitely, when we get to talking about like the stuff we made, um. Like our custom props, our masks, the costumes we made, one of which was like literally an identical model of left shark from the Super Bowl. If you recall that like the literal joy. That came from stage play is a palpable thing that I could call up from a sense memory standpoint. It is a very profound experience. I mean, maybe, you know, the five to six year olds are like, I'm experiencing joy right now, but maybe I don't understand profound, but everyone else does. Mm-hmm. Um, is pretty amazing. And I think joyfulness in creative play and theatrical play is at the heart of it. Otherwise, no one would sign up for this life as a professional. Like if we were not having fun. Nobody would choose this career. It's, it's really a beautiful thing that in and of itself as, an art form creates community. And this is like just a whole nother way to add a deeper layer of community on top of that. I agree. I really think that stage play helped create community. And what was so interesting is that it was we created the community with the children. Yeah. But also with the parents. As they got to see other kids experiencing joy together with their kids. And then what I want you to talk to about is 'cause it is your brainchild, is our buddies. What we decided, again, to be proactive, how do we support our kids to be able to access this theater and this fun is we designed a buddy program. So our buddies are volunteers. They were traditionally teenagers or, people from, uh, the universities. We still u utilize them today, but. It became this really cool funnel that we were educating teenagers in the theater programs that were interested in just being, the theater. Doors are open, they wanna be there. And so we were teaching them how to help, how to advocate for these charges, these other actors. So at some ways they were. Figuring out that they were even, they were both actors, but then they also were these advocates for their child because maybe this child was like, I wanna turn, I wanna turn, and maybe up on stage as the director, we're not seeing all of this internal. I'm, I'm also doing a gesture of, but, this internal, problem that they're having about just, they need to move and so then their buddy can be like, Hey, Jack needs a turn. And we're like, Jack, get up here. And it just made everything so smooth. And I think it created such great bonds. So can you talk about the buddy program just a little bit and then I'll tell a great story. I have, oh my gosh, I hope I don't tell the same story. We should have. We should have pre-planned this. There are so many, so many. Great. So being the education director when I came in, there wasn't a really strong teen culture. It was kind of like haphazard and maybe they weren't getting what they wanted or the types of shows or whatever. But anyway, that was like a, a core focus and in creating a really strong, engaged culture of teenagers who thought that this work was cool, we opened the door not only to, you know, deeper community, but a safer environment. We built in like teaching staffs and scholarships who then grew up to become educators in our program on paid positions who then became designers. They really fed back into our program in a way, which for me, as a sole. Individual in charge of hundreds of beings, um, it made our life viable. So that's like the first fundamental understanding that teen, the teenagers who grew up in our program from some of them started when they were the backbone. They were, they were literally what made it happen. And they became not only exceptional artists, but exceptional educators. So that was fundamental. So I already knew, like, who would I include? My, my trusted students who, the folks I know I can count on and will show up, and then it eventually grew and expanded into including. Um, students from the university. Yeah. Which was also really cool. And so we paired them one-to-one. So not only did our young peeps, our young participants have a model. So someone to do it first, someone to show, someone to help, someone to model, but also that important like co uh, partner in co-regulation in a room, to help lend them support, to remind them to help prompt, um, and also to have like a, like, you know, when you're watching. Saturday morning cartoons and something really funny happens and you look to a sibling to be like, Hey, did you see that? It's like that they had an A given co-conspirator on the fun, on the joy, and I will say that as beneficial as it was for the young participants, the profound, again, profound word impact on our teens. Many who went on to pursue fields, not only theater, but education. We have, uh, at least one, I think two or almost two speech pathologists. That's true. Oh, that's awesome. Yep. We also have a couple medical professionals who've pursued, um, neurodivergency as a area of study based on their fundamental experiences of working with the clinic and and stage play growing up in our children's theater. That's amazing. So like, if I talk about it too much, I'm gonna get for Clint, but um, and then other people have gone into the arts. And still had a passion again for that access and that community. Yes. And have, and then have implemented elements of stage play in other communities. Absolutely. So that's what I think is amazing. That is very cool. Yeah, and, and I mean, you know, adaptive theater belongs to no one, but the ideas generated. Um, you know, like energy can't be created or destroyed. That the echoes, the ripples, the beyond impact of that is not measurable. But also too, in the last like decade since what began as something pretty niche and like we were going to conferences and that was like, felt very niche, very small mm-hmm. Is now, you know, that equitable conversation is a major conversation in all theatrical institution and we are seeing. Differently abled bodies and differently abled folks in Broadway productions, be it a wheelchair or celebrating neurodivergency or even plays on Broadway that are about neurodivergent themes. And I feel like not, I mean it all started with stage. No. I'm like saying this is really important, groundbreaking equity work that was happening across the country, but it, you know, back tying it back to our buddies, it is because important people like. Tahira, Tamara and others we're creating resources and understanding of those things that these now have ambassadors out in the world in the theatrical sense, in addition to the folks that have chosen the profession. So, but the, so you were all a part of it. You were a part of that groundbreaking movement that really went across the country and now you're seeing it on Broadway. That's amazing. I love that, that story and how that, just the reach of that and how much has developed since 2009 when you started it so much. 16 years. Mm-hmm. Yes. I mean, very cool. And that's not that, that's not that long to make that much of a change. Yeah. And really north of. I mean, there were a few things in the Twin Cities that were similar but not exact. They were not maybe housed within a theatrical institution. And one other Minnesota based educator who I know, Nikki, who has focused on this work. We were it. Wow. So there is, there was nowhere in, you know, the northern reaches of Wisconsin and Northern Minnesota over to the Dakotas that you were gonna find. I mean, really there's nothing, 'cause we made it up, but I mean, similarly themed things were, were happening, but nowhere regionally. So, and then also way back now, this is, you know, 20 years ago almost that, uh, all of the programs that we're reaching out were university based. A lot of them were university based, and a lot of them were, again, like I said, like Tahara was doing, research was about for teenagers and adults who are neurodivergent. And so we really wanted to figure out how would we get five to 10 year olds in on this. Yes. And so some of the things that we, that Tara and I didn't know was, well, what do you teach? Young actors, what, what is, what is the starting point? Because, you know, we're all herding cats here, you know, in a, in a, in a big group. And so Kate brought that expertise of a group and of putting on a show and getting those, those things together. And we took the, we took a. Five and 6-year-old class, step by step and said, how would we adapt this? And that was really how it started. So we took a foundation and went, how do we make this more inclusive? How do we make this more supportive? The first thing we did was add a ton of visuals. Yeah. So many pictures. So many pictures. So we had a visual schedule. We had, um, like a step by step, like how to do something. Um, we brought in. Masks that you were talking about. Yeah. So, so often what I really loved about kinda like the philosophy of stage play as it was growing was face body voice. So a lot of times, uh, some individuals have Alexia, which means like they have a hard time interpreting, um, emotions and facial expressions. And it's not that, that we want them to. Learn that this is Happy dot smiley face, because that's not how it looks on every individual. So what we were able to do is, well, this is how John looks happy and this is how Stacey looks happy, but it's all happy. And so we did things like fa just facial expressions. We did things like we had masks that we made. Well, Mary Plaster, right? Oh yes. I definitely wanted, she was the amazing, she did so many props in costumes for us. So Mary Plaster created these, these, Masks that we're like happy masks and angry masks and they are sta they are holding up to this day. And that way we could take away that facial expression part because that was static, but it was still on our person. And then they could focus on the body language of what a happy body looks like. That's so funny. We could focus on what happy sounds like. So we have, we have videos. Of adults doing this, of kids doing this. And it's amazing how that changed because we were able to break it down from the, what does the face look like? But then we add what does the body look like? What does, and then can we combine 'em together? And we were mix and matching and it was just so much fun. Yeah. We can make anything into a game, honestly. Um, and I do wanna shout out Mary Plaster because her support, she, is an incredible, artist with, She fabricates like enormous puppets and made all of our sensory friendly costume pieces and came into observe and work with us to figure out how these would work for us. And I mean. The costumes themselves, like took a beating. And the fact that the masks are still functioning is amazing to me. Mm-hmm. Um, because some of them, they have, they were made out of like paper mache and so we do protect them. But the costumes, you're right, that was an important part because we want, again, to be accessible. Like sometimes, you know, like if you've ever been in like in a dance recital or, or been in or had to be in a part of a band, and the costumes they give you are like tight and itchy. Oh, tight and itchy to the extreme. And so we wanted them, we wanted them to be representational and fun. But also accessible and comfortable and something that they could wear. And so they are these little over the head hoodies that, again, we, we can put on multiple kids for multiple years. Someone might be five feet tall, some of them might be three feet tall with a little pins to keep it. Yeah. But, uh, yes, that was a, that was brilliant of her. Yep. She's awesome. Um, and I, and I was thinking too, like even having the, the seamless shift between having, like the buddies utilize and then. You know, then shifting it to the participants themselves doing it, and like the sharing of that and the collaboration of that, of being like, well, I'm gonna do this, so maybe you do this. And then hatching a little conspiracy together. And that sort of, um, relational play. And again, the joyfulness of that I think helped make some of those, um, things like with mask work, it, I, it is an amazing tool to unlock any actor mm-hmm. Physically, bodily and with their voice. So to then see. The benefits of that just, um, build one on the other and on the other, with both participants and teenage participants, I'll be like, Hey, remember that time you did that thing in stage play? Why don't you bring that into this room? Like, it is it, there is no limitation on some of those very simplistic experiences that we just made up and created from standard exercises. That benefited all. Mm-hmm. Going in every which way and then bringing the buddies back, like, exactly. So we used visuals, but then the visuals were also the buddies. So you're right. Anything that we wanted to introduce to the kids, we would have, maybe buddies acted out first and so they would be examples, and so it was so funny. Kate would always say your inner child guys like tap into your inner 5-year-old, because again, they had to act and show what maybe a five and 6-year-old would like to do. And they were great. They committed and it was so much fun. 'cause every once in a while, you know, you're like, I'm a cool teenager. Yes. And I'm just gonna kind of do, you're like, Nope. Commit. This is all in, this is a part all in. Yeah. It's like you are playing a turtle. Go. Yes. And you know, honestly, you only have to give, especially a theatrical teenager like me permission, maybe like three or four times. Then all of a sudden they're like. Yes, I'm letting that out, but I'm letting my inner turtle out. Oh yeah, exactly. Well, and that bond that they create with each other is so powerful and my, one of my daughters has been helping in stage play the last few years, and so, yay. Yeah. And she's been a buddy and mm-hmm. Loves it. And I can just see her. Transform up there when she's working with her little friend and mm-hmm. Um, last year, one of them actually went to the same school, but the elementary school and she was in, in high school. But this little girl who's so quiet and reserved would see her every once in a while through the hallways and get so excited and wave and, hi, is he, hi, is he And, oh yeah, that's my buddy. It was really, and that surprised me that, that she. Took that outside of the theater with her and Oh yeah. Made that connection and I'll, I'll like level that up. So like yeah, the families, I mean, the families were so awesome, but families would bring their kids to the shows. So like, there'd be like a big teen show or something and they would bring, the participants would come and. They would literally be like, as if, you know, we just watched Lin Manuel Miranda walk out of Hamilton. Like, the stars are my buddies. And I mean, we would have the hollering, like shouting out from the audience. Like, that's my buddy. Like, oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And in the middle of the show, which is awesome. And, and also, you know, to tears' point about the visuals. Okay, now, now look at them, do it with lights and weirdo costumes. Mm-hmm. And then, and then created. What did you think of that? And like again, just a way to recycle experiences through the community and reciprocate that and then bring that into the next stage play. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's just a symbiotic way of having an adaptive program housed within a children's theater that's like doing all the stuff and just opening up more and more and more ideas and like, wow, what EI could do that. And yeah, it doesn't have to be this exact same every time. The other thing that we used a lot, um, with the buddies was. They created that bond with the child. And so they would do at um, scenes together. But then it was a great pivot to be like, okay, so you and your buddy are doing a scene together so that the actor, the child actor is learning about turn taking, waiting for the next person's line, improvisational techniques. And then they're like, okay, now you're ready to do it with another peer actor. And that would not have happened week one. No. No. And so, or it would've been harder for a lot of our kids. Yeah. And so it's just this natural progression of like, look at your, this person is your advocate. This is person is your, you know, is is your buddy and we're gonna do stuff together and then we're gonna open it up. And it was amazing to see a lot of those successes. Some of my favorite videos are. Two guys doing, um, fake actors introductions. Oh my gosh. So fake, fake introductions. So we always teach kids you need to say your name, your age, and then act out like mime something you like to do. But then we. Opened it up to other actors and said, okay, now you're going to introduce Kate. So then you have to find out about her name. You have to find out about her age. You have to find about what she likes to do. And then, but the kids were like getting it wrong and everybody was laughing and we're like, oh, oh, oh. You can fake introduce someone. So they have to do the real. And so we have somebody like, this is John. He's a million trillion. Bazillion years old and he likes to eat cheese. I mean, they were just having so much fun. And, and also it let them, 'cause sometimes they would be like, they would wanna introduce their partner, but they would only want to say the thing they liked to do. Yes, yes. And then they would get mad and be like, that's not what I like to do. That's what you like to do. And so it gave us permission to like expand on that and then turn that into something intentional. Mm-hmm. And also like create the spontaneity. Of like And the flexibility Yeah. To come up with an idea. Yes. And then like, but then riff with a partner. Yes. So yes. And so that brings us to the whole idea of improvisation and how that helps a neurodivergent brain, but everybody to have fun and learn flexibility and learn collaboration in this way. And what stage play does is we take a game and it's predictable, predictable, predict. Punchline, and that's like the, and that's the improvisation. So that's what a lot of our improv games are. There are some improv gaming out there that we sometimes introduce that are way out there. But we start with something where it's, um, very like only like one rule. Like I love the, um, we call it like pass the sound in motion where someone comes up with a. An act, an action, and a sound. It can mean something as simple as woo. And they do an action with it, but then everybody around the circle imitates that. So they have to focus and pay attention. So we have that shared attention and they all do it. And again, we're seeing how it's all a little bit different, but they're kind of trying to focus. And so that's like the simplest improv game where it was just like, we're just like being in the moment together. But then the other ones that we do. We have a setup where we have this empty box and it's a present. And so every child, like the present is, we show them the box is empty. You have to put something in there in your imagination. And some kids love doing that. And some kids are like, Tamara, I'm sorry to break it to you, but there's nothing in this box and that's okay. Everybody's different. And so, um, but then again they learn that fun and that that's like planting ideas in their head. I think sometimes because the, the, um. The predictable part is, Hey, Kate, I got you a present. But then Kate gets to use her imagination and be like, oh, thanks. She opens up the present. It's empty, but you get to put something in that box that's been so fun. We've had everything from stinky bananas. Oh my gosh. That's, it's one of my favorites to an elephant, to cookies. Yeah. It's just so much fun. It is. That was a good one. Yeah. And so that's like the really, like the predictable parts, but like, can you, where was another one I wanna talk about here? Um, oh, like. Being a theater educator, how would you talk about the rules of the improvisation games? So like what I get from it is what Tara Bush, she calls predictable uncertainty. So it's even a part of the routine is predictable, but maybe one thing is subject to change. So that's why we, we at stage play target improv games. But then I just wanted to know, like in the theater world, what is the importance of improvisation games? Yes. Um, I mean. Improv is often used as a warmup. Um, and so it's a way to like, turn on participants in the room, like turn on listening, turn on noticing and observation, turn on nimbleness, responsiveness, and acuity. So there's, you know, there's that. And then like the fundamental rule is you never say no. It's always yes. And, and so, you know, sometimes working within our, our, um, participant community, like no is a first response like, oh. Wait. And so like coming back to that and then creating a space where it's always okay if, if no, how can I make it a yes and, and then change it, adapt it, and work on that focus. So, I mean, I think that those two things as a way of turning on. Awarenesses, which is somewhat sensory and then also coming to the Yes. And part of the show is really where the highlight is. And also like any sort of like social listening, social skills, awareness, and like observing their body language and like diagnosing that, being like, well, what do you think? It all ties back into the fundamentals of like our mask games. Identifying an emotional state to know then, is what that actor's saying, is that a mad voice? And then putting the voice body face all together, where are they going with this? Where are they going with this? So that I am, I am negotiating and responding in alignment with the scene, again, in air quotes. Mm-hmm. So, helping them, we've broken it down in a lot of the different activities that we've done, and then can we put it together in a way that is more immediate and responsive? And then also, like, it's silly. There's so much, so much permission giving. To be outta the box, to be silly. And maybe, I mean, teenagers for sure are being put in boxes and labels all the time, but little peeps have maybe been like given lots of correctives. Yeah. And then this should, is, should, should. Yeah. You should be like this or you should be doing that. But what if we take the rules away of that and so long as everybody is safe. You could make a fart noise if that's really what's calling to you and if it's appropriate to the scene. You know, like, so, um, I think finding more avenues for them to access comes through game playing and that permission of playfulness. Mm-hmm. And I also like the permission to, like you said, as long as everyone's safe to use their body in a very communicative way, so we're not just focusing on the verbal language, which of course we do, but we are gestures, we are well, how, how does it look like to be, to use big voice, big gestures, and then gives giving the permission to move around and dance and have joy. And yeah. That's really cool. And, and again, like you were saying, like it's, you know, structure, structure, structure and then whatever this is, whatever the improv portion is. Yes. And theater's all about process. So how we make a show has a process, how we run a class has a process. And so, you know, to kind of tie back to the earlier part, yeah. We used a lot of the techniques from stage play. Like every rehearsal had a visual schedule. Every class, every class at the Playhouse had a visual schedule. Mm-hmm. And so we, you are able to bring a lot of techniques into every classroom for every participant. But the process of theater is pretty baked. Like you do a show, you rehearse it, it goes blocking, and then you have memorization due date, and then you go to the stage and then you go to tech and they add the lights, the costumes, and the sound one at a time. And all the things happen in order. And that's fairly. Routine and replicatable. So if we can do that on a production scale with hundreds of different participants, dozens of creative contributors, we can definitely do it in a classroom. We can definitely take what we do in a classroom so that participants could come to an experience like that and give it a go. Mm-hmm. I really appreciated you when we wanted to create our own productions for stage play. We didn't go out and buy. Annie Junior, we didn't go out and buy, you know, west Side story. We're like, what do the kids want to, oh my God. Talk about what do the kids want to put on for a show? And you really wrote a lot of, I would call the templates of our stage play scenes, skits, productions that we still use today. There's a, you know, a couple out there like, um, Q wrote a couple for us. Yeah. She was a student. Then just then educator for a while. And it really helped me because what I did then is like, I'm a kid. I know Johnny, I know how much, how many lines Johnny wants to say. So we would take, or I know Johnny really loves Bluebirds, or I know like Johnny loves pigs or loves Mario, and we're gonna write it into the script. I think custom script building was one of our superpowers. Oh my goodness. Goodness. Because we knew our demographic and it was hilarious. It was so good. And the Playhouse does that today in some of their classes. But again, since we're working with a smaller population, it was so individualized. Yes. And it continues to be. We try and that's what was so rewarding, because again, it's what the kids wanna say it, we would just like. Make it cohesive. You were magic about that. We're gonna make something about pizza and Mario and Bluebirds. Cohesive. Thank you. It can be done. It can be done. And so that was really exciting. So we did the improvisation games, we did the structure of like, um, how to co-regulate with other kids, and then we put on a little show and it was really interesting. Um, stage play started. We've been in every, I guess we've. Every theater venue that the Playhouse has, has had. So we've been down on First Street, we've been at the depot, we've been where they are currently now. And it's amazing that, you know, we can, we, so we adapt the setting, we adapt the place. We have the same costumes mostly. But, I think it's time we do an update on that. Yeah, it's, it's in the works, but, um. But that's what's really, that's what's really exciting, that it's like it can work almost anywhere. And you know, as long as we have the volunteers and as long as we have, the kids that wanna join and create that accessibility in that community, we just really love that. Um, the Playhouse has made a place for that and that they've. Find that in the community that that is worth it. And so we had the vision and then, you know, through COVID, through changes in funding, we've found a way and people have said, no, this is worthwhile. Resource that we wanna keep going. 'cause we didn't, we you started, you found some great funding when there was the Minnesota State Arts Board. Mm-hmm. And so that was like several years. That was like every year you're writing grants, making it happen. 'cause what we wanted to do is we wanted to provide access, which means we didn't want it be a financial burden for, for families. Yes. Children with disabilities often are very expensive. They have other, they have to pay for therapy, they have extra insurance things. And we wanted to make it accessible. We wanted people to join. And so being able to make it at no cost to them was fit with, with the Masonic Children's Clinic or then Scottish Right. Clinic's philosophy. And you really took that on. And that was really amazing. And so there were grants that were housed by the clinic. There were grants that were housed, meaning like. Took care of the administrative portion of it by the playhouse. And now there is the Thompson Family Scholarships where they, wanted to make sure that stage play could continue because they knew about our difficulties over COVID. We actually had to, we had like maybe three students. We were trying to like limit students, you know, during COVID and then we wanted to get the. The word out there that we were back, you know? And so they said that they guaranteed one class a year for sure. That will be in perpetuity with their trust and oh my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah, so that's, so it's great that even after I'm gone, there's the structure in place that it can still happen. And that's just so cool. Yeah. The Minnesota State Arts Board was super instrumental in that. Um, and I worked really closely with their granting officers on figuring out what the right fit for us was that wouldn't impact other funding for the organization. And so that was, a huge, huge boon to us and allowed us to do things like build the, The resources, like the costumes, the masks, hire an artist to work with us to do something. Sensory friendly, all of that stuff. Yes. And, and that also led to us getting more education as well. Yep. So, um, can you talk about your, uh, connection to, uh, yes. To Andrew Nelson? Oh my gosh. So, yeah. Um, Andrew and I are very close and we went to college together and then he moved on, from his theater work. To work with the Autism Theater Network, and is doing additional. He was just in India working, in community there and building really global co coalitions around this work. And so when we, you know, in the beginning of our conversation when we were talking about this as a movement. He's on the cutting edge of it. He was really on the cutting edge of it and so proud of him and the work that he's done and contributed to. And he's le leading, you know, multiple initiatives within nationwide organizations here, but also participating in this at the global level. And I could probably come up with more resources about that if we were to wanna direct folks to what that work looks like. Mm-hmm. I think that'd be cool. Um, but, but yeah, but truly. He's a great resource. He's always answered questions. We ended up being in community with them at the conference at Tim and I attended together, which was super awesome. And so like, yeah, I, I think thinking of the little microcosm of Duluth and the region, but as this, this really is a landmark program in the lifeline, the lifespan, and certainly in the length of its, endurance. In this movement. So if folks are considering giving, supporting, or creating more resources for stage play, they are contributing to something that is. Part of a global movement towards supporting neurodivergent peeps. Ooh, that's amazing. Mic drop. Yeah. Oh yeah. Put me on a podium. But, and that's why we, I love why we get to talk about it. 'cause I knew that our passions co-align. It co-align. Sorry. Our, our passions align so much about this, and you can hear it in our voices and you can see it, and we've seen it through different iterations with different, with different kids. Like I know that. It. There's, there's kids I see in my head. Now what we also have is that we have from 2009 to 2024, we have videos. I know on the stage play YouTube channel because why? That's so, the technology that came, you know, that made it easy. So YouTube came in 2007, I think. Yeah. And so. It was the perfect timing to help us out because we use the video models To this day where I was looking at my very thin self from 2016, hello, same, but it was the, it was the perfect video model that I could say, okay, kids that are coming up. Tomorrow saying This is a game that we played in 2016. This is a game we're gonna play tomorrow. And you watch this and then you know that yes, it's, it might be a different theater, it might be different kids, but these are the words that you can say, these are some models, these are some ideas in your head so that you don't feel nervous about what's gonna happen. You kind of know. And so we have the visuals, but we also have the videos and then also we have videos of. They're successes. So I take videos almost, almost every session, and then I cherry pick, wow, she did something amazing. This was hilarious. And then we can put that on their greatest hits. And so we have the greatest hits at the end of the season and they can show their grandparents, they can show themselves. And sometimes I just, like I said, I go back and there's a couple that I just, oh my gosh, if there's a bad day and never anyone's having it, they should be watching most videos. 'cause 2010, they're giving 2010. Michael Jackson. That's all I have to say. I, I am right there with you. Cody James Bond. There was some friends that, they chose personas when they acted, and so we had Michael Jackson and Cody James Bond. Awesome. And we can put a link to that. They were great. Yeah, we'll link it in the show notes. So fun. That'd be perfect. And so now you, like you said, you are staying in the theater community, but you are also expanding. Can you talk. Your treat, your Oh yes. Things coming up. Promote, promote. Um, you know, I've, I've always sort of been like a polymath and I never am doing one thing, and anybody who's listening to this will laugh when they, when I say that. But, so, um, I left the playhouse in 2017. And took a job as an executive recruiter with a Duluth based firm called Samala. So I'm working in the corporate sector with a lot of folks in like digital marketing and strategic communications on different types of topics. So I'm working again with communicators, and again, stage play really helped me for this. 'cause I can talk, well, I've always, I've always had a knack. I can talk to a concrete block, but now I have even more skills to unlock, more diverse communities when I'm in conversations with them. And that's, I, I do. Resource that for myself very often. But, that's like the primary thing that I've been doing with my time. I'm still involved in our theater community, which is beautiful and diverse and vibrant. And last year, uh, performed in a production of Macbeth over at Zeitgeist. And before that, the sold out production of potus, directed that. And in addition to that, I do run, um, I co-run a yoga company with my very good friend, Miriam. Focusing on international retreats and community accessible yoga. And the reason why this relates is because I focused on getting certifications in trauma conscious yoga, which again, is a way of, increasing and fostering accessibility, not just for differently abled bodies, but for different. Lived experiences in a room to make sure that, participants are able to embody and enjoy the art and practice of yoga in any state that they might find themselves. And so again, that is, that is, seeded and inspired by the work and the power and the profound nature of working with stage play. And also, um, you know, my lifelong course as an educator. You know, I am, I'm uniquely bent towards justice on that front. So, um, yeah. And meeting people where they're at. Yeah. Yeah. And so those, those things are like fun facts about me. But, um. Yeah, I've definitely had a diverse career since leaving, my primary leadership at the Duluth Playhouse, but I miss it every day. I love stage play. I probably talk about it three times a week, um, with other people in different walks of my life. And so it's something I'm super proud of and I'm really grateful to be here today to be able to share with you a little about our storied origin. Yes. Thank you very much. I appreciate so much like how you, your passion and how you kept it going, and then your advocacy now. Yay. Yay. Thanks guys. Yeah. Thank you for being here. That wraps up this episode of Hear Me Out. Thanks so much for listening. Be sure to subscribe, share the podcast with others, and join us next time as we continue learning from the professionals, parents and donors who make this work possible and celebrate the amazing kids we serve. To learn more about the Masonic Children's Clinic or to support our mission of providing free speech, language and hearing services, visit our website and consider making a donation. Every gift helps us give children the voice they deserve. Visit us at masonic children's clinic.org.