Beyond Palatable- With Sophie Lee l Episode 104

In this episode of Mad About, I’m joined by the brilliant Sophie Jane Lee, coach for voice, visibility and strategy, and author of Beyond Palatable: A Manifesto for Unapologetic Women.

We chat about Sophie’s journey from running a successful business on paper while struggling deeply underneath it all, to doing the hard inner work that helped her step into who she really is.

We get into:
✨ success vs actually feeling successful
✨ self-worth, self-sabotage and healing
✨ the drama triangle: victim, prosecutor and rescuer
✨ people pleasing, boundaries and nervous system responses
✨ neurodivergence, relationships and being misunderstood
✨ finding the right rooms, the right people and the right way to show up
✨ pregnancy, business and why “hard” doesn’t have to define everything

This is a really honest, funny, powerful conversation about accountability, self-expression, healing, and what it means to stop abandoning yourself.

Sophie’s book is out now and available from all major bookshops, on Kindle, and soon on audiobook.

Follow Sophie:
Instagram: @electricpeachstudios
LinkedIn: Sophie Jane Lee
Book: beyondpalatable.com

Follow me:
Instagram: @maddytalksmoney
TikTok: @madaboutmoneyofficial
Everywhere else: Maddy Alexander-Grout

If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe, leave a review, share it with a friend, and let me know in the comments if this conversation resonated with you.

#podcast #neurodiversity #boundaries #peoplepleasing #visibility #selfworth #healing #womeninbusiness #adhd #autism #madaboutpodcast

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Mad About. I'm Maddy Alexander Grout and this is the podcast where we talk about all things neurodiversity, money, business, the things that we are mad about, the things that we're passionate about, the things that we're angry about. And also I have mad cool guests on with me. And today's guest is no exception, the wonderful, the fantastic Sophie Jane Lee. Sophie is a coach for voices and visibility and strategy, and also the author of Beyond Palatable, which I have got a copy of right here. I'm not going to show you that bit because it's a special one. A really special book, which I feel is going to be like a limited edition, like collectible item at some point. So I might frame it after I've read it. I'm really excited about talking about this book because it is a manifesto for unapologetic women. I knew that I was going to stumble over that word. And to be honest, I think men could read this as well, to be honest. I think anybody could read this. For sure. It's not just for women. It's not. It's really not. I mean, I get where you get where you've gone with it, but I think I mean I also like the lipstick, we can tell the lipstick matches, you can see that that's Sophie just from the mouth.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

But we're going to be talking about um Sophie's Journey, we're going to be talking about the book. Um, it's coming out very, very soon. And I'm very privileged to have actually got my hands on a coffee before the release date, which is amazing. And actually, by the time this podcast comes out, the book will be available for you to buy, which is super exciting. Um, and I it it gives me butterflies for you, knowing how exciting it is having a book coming out. Um, and it's making me want to get my next one out really fast. Um, so Sophie, I first met you. Um, well, we we we were friends online, but you invited me to speak at one of your events last year. Um, and I absolutely loved that event. It was a brilliant event, and I thought, yes, this this lady is gonna be my friend forever because I think if destroyed still true, um, I feel like we are very similar, we do very similar things in business um for very similar people actually. Um but again, like you're the sort of person that's collaboration over competition, which I very much like. Um, you know, I don't I don't collaborate or like get our souls onto this podcast. So we're just saying that me and Sophie do very similar things. Um, but this is a good thing because you know, people will like me, people will like Sophie. We, you know, and actually there are people who work with both of us, actually. We have quite we have we have a bit of a crossover, don't we? So um so Sophie, I would like you to tell me um where did your journey begin? Like, how did you get from like where where you began? Because I know that you had a bit of a kind of tumultuous is that is that a word? Have I just made that up? But it was a bit of a rocky start in your business life, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

It was I wouldn't necessarily say that my business life was tumultuous or rocky in the sense that I didn't make that word up because I was like, tumultuous is a great word. It's perfect. Um so my my business started nine years ago, and Lily, now is not the time for you to get yourself involved in the conversation. Well that's all right, we have we have we have we have dogs involved a lot, so Shush, please. Um so I started my business Electric Peach nine years ago, and from the very beginning it was really successful on paper. So we had massive clients, six figures in the first year, that registered immediately. Everything that everyone says that you should be in business were, but and I should say underneath all of that, I had a raging sense of self-loathing, and I had just carried with me into business all of these stories that I had about myself and what I was not even just what I was capable of. I think deep down I've always been a massive overachiever. So deep down I I believed I was capable of a lot, but it was more I didn't believe that I was worth it. So every time something great happened, and at the time I was working with a business partner who you also know, Alice, who's incredible. We love Alice, we love her. Every time something great happened, I would sabotage it, and that usually that showed up in alcohol and drugs, and using them what felt like as an escape, but look, I look back on it and I actually just think it was too because the idea of that level of success was scary, so it would just be easier for me to escape and get absolutely wrecked, and then it would always be the night before some big important thing that we were doing, and so I would show up a fraction of my full self. And Alice was actually really the the catalyst in what changed to that because she sat me down. Actually, we were stood up, she stood me up and said, um, and said, You're I can see that you've got this big light within you, but it's like you're covered in all of these blankets and you seem to be on this route for complete destruction. And I really hope that you can find a way to come back to yourself, take those blankets off and really shine your light. What a lovely way of putting it.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

You're a complete and utter catastrophic fuck up, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, you're you're an actual you're you're ruining my life. Uh do something about it.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

She's so lovely, isn't she? That and that's that's just the perfect Alice way of of of putting it, really.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, she's phenomenal, and and I'm so lucky that I had her in my corner and that I know her, and she's in my corner still today, even though we're not in business together anymore, we're still super close.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

And she really, she really held a mirror up, and and in that process, I had to look at myself and and really come to terms with some very uncomfortable truths in order to be able to heal the parts of me that didn't believe that I was worthy, that were performing on the outside but dying on the inside, and really look at all of these patterns that I've been playing out in all elements of my life, which were leading to just drama and pain and constant chaos all the time, over and over and over again. And that process of healing, and and it sounds really wanky, but it is healing. It really was really at least I didn't say journey, I didn't say healing journey, but it was it was a process of investigation where I really had to pick apart the fabric of myself and understand what was driving so much of my behaviour, and it was an it was a very painful time, but a complete game changer for me. And the person that I am now is so different from the person that I was nearly nine years ago, almost unrecognizably different. And the reason that I choose to tell you that is because the entire time my business has been a six-figure business, the the like pinnacle of what we're supposed to be aiming for. The entire time we've been successful on paper, even when I was at my most destructive, but that doesn't mean that I ever felt like a success or ever felt like I was really blossoming in my life and business. And it's only now that I can really truly say that I am a success to what I count as being successful, and and that's really what created my insight that led to me wanting to write this book.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

I absolutely love that because you know, I mean, it's weird saying, I mean, it is it is a journey, isn't it? And healing is absolutely it is the right way to do it because I think sometimes we have to be at rock bottom to be able to help ourselves to get out of a hole. Um, you know, six months ago, I was at that rock bottom, not for the first time either. Um, and I think genuinely the I mean, ADHD does not help. Autism does not help, like, especially in my case. I have an incredibly overthinking brain, and I replay every scenario, every situation that I've ever been in. I will absolutely replay it till the death. And then I get triggered, and it's RSD and it's all of those kind of things. But I think knowing that stuff about myself as well really helped me to kind of navigate the last six months and drugs as well. Drugs, you know, I'm I mean searchraline. Um, I'm just gonna say it now. Surtraline genuinely saved my life, um, but it gave me the space away from my brain to be able to go, right? Like, I mean, especially, I mean, first of all, other people's opinions of me are none of my fucking business. Like, I genuinely now, if if somebody doesn't like me, that's their fucking fault, and it's also their fucking loss. Um, because I know that I'm a cool person, and like a lot of things that happened to me over the last six months have been because I was in a bad place and therefore I was misinterpreted and I was misunderstood and and kind of misread. Um, there were times where I was a complete and utter douchebag, like 100%, because we all can be douchebags. Um, you know, I used to say for my membership, no douchebags allowed. And then I was like, actually, we can all be douchebags at times. So fucking hell, all of the douchebags come in.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Douchebags come, but please can you heal yourself because you're only being a douchebag because you're being come to heal yourself, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Um, and that that healing process where you realise that actually you you might be impacting other people in a negative way, that really helps you to then be able to find the person that you're actually the person who you were underneath, and the person who you were always meant to be. And I think that's that's super powerful, but it it is like wankily enough, it is a journey. Um, and then you know, throw in life shit and um and and Sophie's pregnant. I mean, this is amazing, yeah, very, very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

So, yeah, that also has been an interesting part of the journey, um, which wasn't something that I thought was going to happen, but feels perfect. And I realized yesterday that from getting my publishing deal to being the book being published on the 8th of March was almost exactly nine months, a little bit over.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

From sperm meets egg. So you were like doing doing the deed and pitching to publishers on the same day. Well, no, because I'm not about to pop right now. So we ask you mass questions, Sophie. Like peculiar as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

No, she's she's not coming until July, thank God. I don't know what I would do if I was like about I'm glad she's coming in July because like I had an August baby, and just even like those extra two weeks of heat just she's end of July, and yeah, I mean, uh yeah, the heat isn't ideal, but I'm also way, way I would way prefer summer baby than winter baby because winter winter babies are horrible.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

I mean, like, not horrible. I mean, my daughter is I'm a winter baby, I'm 17th of December. Uh yeah, Harriet's is 15th of Feb. And I mean, we we just went to Lanzarote to celebrate her birthday so that we could have it in the sunshine. I mean, it's an expensive way to do a birthday party, but it was fun. Um Ben's in August, and he's like, he always, but he's also got the problem of like it being the summer holidays, so nobody can ever come to his birthday party. And he's saying to me at the moment, Mummy, when are we gonna have my birthday party? I'm like, sorry, mate, like I keep forgetting, and it's like because I said we could have it when we moved into the new house, so at some point I have to give my 10-year-old a birthday like birthday party because he needs to anyway. That's an important one. Is we don't we digress a little bit, but I but I said he could have a pizza and gaming party in our new house. So I love that. That's I think I'm just gearing myself up for the mental overload and the horrendous executive function situation that that is gonna be. Um having a baby, well, being pregnant when you are running a business is quite hard. How have you been navigating that?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

I don't know, to be honest, and this is gonna trigger a lot of people when they read my book, but I believe that hardness is like the story of hard is a bit of a story, and that we can choose our hard. Like it's hard, but so is everything in life. Everything worth doing is hard, and it's not that hard. And my approach to it has been like people have babies all the time, and people have babies in really extreme conditions and they manage and they don't complain about how hard it is. Whereas for some reason, in the in the Western world, we just love to complain about how hard absolutely everything is, and it's been really interesting being pregnant because before I was pregnant, I would be told because I'm near I'm 38, so I would be told a lot that having a child is my only purpose as a woman, or that I will regret it if I don't, all of these things. And now you're you're a geriatric mum, which I'm a geriatric mum, although I haven't they haven't actually used that expression at all. I really, really hope that they scrap the stop because it's becoming so much more normal anyway. Yeah, right. But then I have people being like, Oh, your life's over, oh you're never gonna sleep again. And I'm just like, what is wrong with you? Like, go stop, take your negativity away. Because even if that is true, what fucking good is it gonna do me to spend my time worrying? Like, no, just stop. And there's a part in my book where I say we love things that are hard, we love things that are hard, everything about what we're what we like on a pedestal, hard work, like all of this hardness that we love. And and I just think, what if we stopped doing that and instead we went into things like this is gonna be an adventure, this might be a challenge, but every other time I've had a challenge, I've learned something and I've grown from it, and this is an opportunity to learn some new things, and yeah, not it's probably not gonna be a walk in the park, although I would quite like to go for walks in the park with my very expensive buggy. Yeah, but like so I so I it hasn't been that hard. I think um probably part of it's been mindset, also like so grateful to my amazing body because it actually hasn't been physically that challenging. So I haven't had very much sickness, tiredness, but I'm also working a lot and launching a book. I'd probably be tired anyway, sleeping well. Like, I can't really complain at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

So, I mean, the good thing, the good thing about having a newborn is like, I mean, I I found that having a newborn was the thing that actually made me really fucking good at social media because it was the only thing I could do because I had a baby attached to my boob. The only thing I could do was work from my phone. Now I hate being on a laptop because it feels almost alien to me. Like having my phone and just doing stuff and talking to clients and doing the things and like doing videos and stuff, it was like the only thing I could do when I had a baby on my boob. So I was like, yeah, I'll just do that. Um, you know, I I actually think that hard things can also be empowering things. Exactly. Like going through those hard, like I mean, I I always say that my I mean, my my labour with Harry was accidentally the most empowering thing that I ever did. Um, because my body just was like I was in hospital for two weeks before Harry came because she was rolling over a nerve and I was like in absolute agony and it was pretty bad. Um, and I had quite a quite a traumatic labour, and I, you know, I don't I'm not saying this to scare you, it's it's just it all ended up fine and it was all great, but um but basically they induced me because I was due, because I had gestational diabetes, and I asked for drugs, literally, as soon as they induced me, I was like, as soon as I start dilating, give me all the drugs, give me all of them. Like, I want every single thing that you can possibly do. They gave me an epidural, and I was like, thank God, right, the pain's gonna go away in a bit, we're all good. My epidural, my epidural failed. I had a patch on my leg that was this big that was numb, and they were like spraying this spray on me. Can you feel stuff? I can feel everything, it fucking hurts. Um, and then I gave birth at seven centimetres, um, which is not what you're supposed to do, but I could but I had the overwhelming urge to push, and she wasn't very well, so I had to get her out. So basically, my body did this miraculous thing where it was like, uh-uh, epidural, we're not gonna let you in because we know that this baby needs to come out, and if she's having an epidural, she's not gonna know when to push. Um, and it all just happened, and I had no pain relief, apart from gas and air, which doesn't do a huge amount, it's fun, but it doesn't do very much. Um then afterwards I was just like, Holy crap, I like I did something that was super, super empowering. I gave birth naturally to a baby with no pain relief.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

That's my that's my plan. Like my placenta at the moment is really low, so I might have to have a C-section, but if it moves, then my plan is to scroll.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

It can, because my mine was in a low position and it did move, so it will, it does and can happen.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

I honestly, when I look at every single part of my life, and this book is full of these stories of of things that have like a large a lot of a lot of things that I have created for myself, like fuck-ups that I have bought on myself with certain behaviours, and every single one of those things has helped me to become the person that I am, and I and that's what I mean. It's like we just need to. I'm a really, really big believer and had to go through a real challenge to get to this point that if we step outside of the victim, which is that oh, it's really hard, everything's really hard, life is out to get me, and into like you're saying, you could be talking about your tra your traumatic birth experience, or you could be talking about everything that it brought to you, and oh my god, I did this.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

My body was very so good, like it was, and and also like I was really proud of giving birth to the placenta. I mean, obviously, you have to do that anyway, but when it when it came out, I've never seen I've never seen anything so massive. So I took a picture of it and I was like, I can't believe like that. The placenta was bigger than the baby. I'm placenta's are fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Honestly, the other thing that's helping me a lot with any of the kind of less comfortable parts of pregnancy is how phenomenal the women's work.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Something can grow inside you and still be able to breathe.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

I'm like, what my body's just like 3D printing, it's like do do do do do today, we'll do the eyelashes, do do do do do do do like what?

SPEAKER_00 19:40

It's so bizarre, isn't it? The more you think about it, the more intriguing it is, and then you're like, and bodies are miraculous things, they really are. Um like but but but let let's go back, let's go back to the the victim mentality because I think when you when you understand the drama triangle, and you write about this in the book, like explain what the drama triangle is because I think it's it's important for for people to know.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

So the drama triangle is a concept that was created by someone whose name has completely left my brain off. So please can you put it in the notes? Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. So yeah, because I did not make it up. Um, but basically, it's when you the idea is that most of us, or many of us, spend our lives playing one of three roles. So we're either the victim, the perpetrator, um, or no, not the perpetrator, sorry, the prosecutor or the um enabler. So we kind of go between all of those roles. And so when you start looking at a relationship dynamic that is dysfunctional, and then ask yourself, rather than blaming the other person, because that's usually what we we do in dysfunctional relationships, asking yourself, like, what role am I playing in this relationship? So there have been times where I have been um playing, for example, like the enabler, or you could call it the rescuer, with friendships that actually weren't very healthy. And I could blame that person for that dysfunction, but actually I was deliberately stepping into that rescuer role, deliberately looking for the drama, deliberately attracted to the chaos of that relationship, which I think is quite common for people who are neurodivergent. Absolutely, and just like a chaos like metal detector, like, ooh, you're chaotic, be my friend, and then wondering why.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah, I I definitely feel, and and I also feel like I attract people who are quite similar to me personality wise, you know, they're ambitious. They get shit done. They are neurodivergent. But also, like, what comes with neurodivergence is not actually being able to advocate for yourself and the communication issues that that brings. And I know that like analysing a particular relationship that went wrong last year for me, that I acted in certain ways. I was hurt by a few things which made me a bitch, basically. And we we all have that deep within us where if you are triggered by something and you then have that thing where you then go, Oh, I'm gonna be horrible about that person because they've insulted me or like they've upset me, and like it's a values mismatch.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

But that's the persecutor. So that's like you stepping into that. These are all of the reasons why that person is wrong. Like, you know, like persecution is essentially saying that person is wrong, you're like not sorry, not the the prosecutor. Yes, my brain. There is the prosecutor, the victim, and the um not the labeler, oh my god, uh no, it's not it's um the prosecutor, the victim, and the this is this is where we look it up in the book, isn't it? I feel um because I just my memory before. Um my memory was terrible anyway. Added pregnancy, and my brain's just like mush. Um but we but we have this the rescuer, the rescuer, the rescuer, the rescuer. So that so what you're describing is the prosecutor, and if you think about prosecution in terms of a court, and the whole point of the prosecution is to say all of the reason why the other person is wrong, and you've wronged me. And see that that is part of the drama triangle, and in the moment where it we're doing that, we feel vindicated because we've been hurt, because the other person maybe has done stuff to really warrant the ways that we're kind of accusing them of, but it's the way that we then do it that makes that the prosecutor, so it's the energy nerve rather than going, I'm hurt, that was really unhelpful the way that person behaved, but I'm gonna do whatever I can to heal it, learn from it, move away from that person, but not go into this prosecutor energy. And I feel these days that I've got quite a good grip on my victim, but the prosecutor and the enabler, the enabler being the one where you go in and you're like trying to rescue everybody, and it's not even called the enabler, it's called the rescuer.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

I am definitely I and I can see myself in all of those parts of the triangle for sure. Like, but I think the rescuer, I am 100% a rescuer a lot of the time. Um, again, I think my my victim, I I have moments when my mental when my mental health dips where I do become the victim. And I'm I'm the like everybody sucks, everything sucks, why me? Like, and then I was just like, actually, why me is not like why not me? Like, why why not me? Why why actually am I sat in this like place where I'm feeling like I can't achieve great things because of the stuff that's going on around me? Why can't I just move from the stuff that's been going on around me to a different place? And and that and that kind of like it weirdly changing environments helped me so much. Like I was stuck in a house that I really hated, but I was telling myself that I hated it all the time, and it was just being in that negative space made me in a negative space as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah, it's amazing. But this is this is the thing, our self-talk, the stories that we tell ourselves are so potent to how we show up in our lives. And and you said earlier before we came on that there will be people who don't like this book, and it's true that if people are married to their victim, which at one point in my life I definitely was, I found it, it was my comfort blanket, and I had some really shit things happen to me, and I felt like I absolutely justified the victim label, but it was really unhelpful for how I lived my life and how I showed up in relationships and how much happiness and joy I allowed myself to feel, because it directly impacted the stories that I told myself, and this is really the kind of undercurrent of the book is about taking accountability for our own lives, for the ways that we show up, for the impact that we have, and for what we create. Because as you're saying, the and you you are someone who has a really good understanding and handle of this anyway, but this is what makes our life good. It's not what happens to us, it's how we react to what happens to us that determines whether we have a joyful life or not.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah, and this is and as somebody who is who is just I am training at the moment in uh trauma response.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Oh yeah, I did that last year, and it's so important, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So good, and it and it and it is it is the understanding that the trauma is how we process something, not the actual event. Um, and if you get stuck in that victim mode, it is really difficult to get back out because the more you tell yourself, well, the more the the things kind of pile on you, the more you're like, why me? It's I'm also quite a spiritual person, so it's almost like you're manifesting more shit. So, like when the good stuff's coming, like, you know, I I kind of just almost put it all to bed and kind of changed who I was at the at the back end of last year. I reached out to people who I thought I'd done wrong to, I apologised to them. Like some of them accepted it, some of them accepted it in a kind of almost like a passive-aggressive way. Um, some of the some of them were just like, thank you so much, it really means a lot. And I've actually become friends again with those people who I wronged in the past. Um, there were a couple of people who I didn't apologise to at all because actually I I no longer cared for them. But that was because I knew that that was me moving on from that situation. Good for you.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

It takes so much courage to do that.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And you talk about boundaries in the book, and like I think boundaries are hard for neurodivergent people. So let's talk a little bit about boundaries, shall we?

SPEAKER_01 28:22

The boundary chapter was by far the hardest chapter to write and the most uncomfortable. I I find setting boundaries so challenging, and since I have been writing this book, living and breathing this book, I've really had to hold myself accountable to the way that I protect my boundaries. And it's so hard. Um but and it's really it's really important to know for me. It's really important to know that when you're saying, like to know what a no is for you, to know what a yes is for you. And this does also wrap into people pleasing, which is the nervous system response. People demonize people pleasing, which I think is really sad for people pleasing because it's not this evil thing, it's it's a learning it's us being nice, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:21

But it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

It's not, it's actually not us being nice at all. It's it's a it's a control, it's a control mechanism, it's a deeply insidious form of control, but it is a nervous system response to perceived threat. So you have your fight, flight, freeze, and fawn, and the fawn is people pleasing. And if you've been taught your whole life, especially when you were a child, and maybe you grew up around unstable adults, or for some reason the adults in your life didn't feel like safe spaces for you to be your full self-very common for millennials who are neurodivergent, especially girls, because we had to mask all of the time after living in our own homes, wasn't as much understanding as there is now. Because we were always told that we were too much, weren't we?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Like dramatic and like stop being a drama, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Yeah, and and also maybe our behaviour for whatever reason, but the the point is more interesting to look at adulthood of when that creates behaviours where it feels really unsafe to say no or to set a boundary, and so it's just feel safer, and and we feel so much less anxious to just be like, okay, sure, I'll do the thing, even if it's sacrificing ourselves, and so that's why boundaries are such an important part of this book because the whole thing is about moving away from self-abandonment into true self-expression, and the I mean, I read the book, and there's so many examples in there of different types of boundaries, different ways of setting them. I've even given responses you can use, all of them made me cringe inside my body, and but the main thing for me is to really understand when it's a fuck no. Because there's this whole thing of if it's not a fuck yes, it's a fuck no. And it's like, are you do you live in the real world?

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

When like for me, it's it's never gonna be a fuck yes to do half of the stuff that I do because that's what life is.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

I find it easier to say fuck no to stuff now because like it's if it doesn't match up with my values and my time and my energy, I'm like, fuck no.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Exactly, and that's the more important part. And budgeting knowing no is the more important part. The like it you have to realize, we all have to realise that realistically speaking, not every single thing in life is going to be this, yeah, I can't wait to do this thing. Like, that's not how life works. But but self-sacrifice is when we do the thing that's actually a fuck no over and over and over and over again, and that self-sacrifice, that self-abandonment is so toxic for our nervous systems, for our health, for our trust of ourselves, for how we can connect to others. And that's the thing that's more important to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I spent years going to events that I didn't feel welcome at. And basically every time I went, I would be like, Oh, I've got, you know, I I'd make all the excuses. I'm I'm neurodivergent, I'm awkward in public, I have uh prosepagnosia, which is face blindness. So like when I go to events, I get re I get really panicky that if somebody knows who I am, I'm not gonna know who they are because like I've met them, they they came on a podcast with me three years ago or whatever, because I'm quite memorable, like in a in a good way or a bad way, I don't know. Um but but I realized that I was going to all these events and like putting so much pressure on my sp on myself, spending loads of money being there, spending money on like advertising or like sponsorship or whatever, and just feeling super uncomfortable because they weren't the right rooms for me. And then I was at an event on Friday, and I there was a couple of times where my prostapagnosia got really like really bad. And there was a lady who came up to me, she was like, Maddie, hi! I messaged you earlier, I could really do with a hug, and I was like, Hey, hug. I was like, nice to meet you. She was like, We met last year. I'm like, I'm really sorry. Um, and I but I didn't feel awkward about it, I didn't feel uncomfortable about it because I knew that that room was somewhere where I felt safe. And learning what rooms I feel safe in and what rooms a fuck knows has like like I'm coming to your event. I am not scared of your event in any way, shape, or form because I know that the people there are gonna be people who are my type of people, and I'm not gonna feel like I'm an outsider in that room. No. Even some of the most inclusive rooms that I've been in. I've I felt like I just don't belong there because I know that there are people who just they have a a conception of me that isn't necessarily what I would like them to think of me, but I but I realised I was spending so long trying to impress people that I that I thought I needed to. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Oh a hundred percent, and I think that's the that's the biggest tragedy for so many of us who've grown up feeling like an outsider in most occasions, most situations.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I thought I fitted in the business world until last year, and then I I just I didn't fit. I didn't fit, and I felt really lost.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

And I think it's how you it's the one it's the places that you choose to fit into. Yes. So there are like there are gloriously lots of spaces in the business world, and I feel very ingrained within the business community in the UK, very, very, very grateful to the community that I have, and they've been incredible in in the launch of this book and the creation of the book. Yeah, but there are certain pockets that everybody raves about that that like people love, and it's not even that I'm like, I don't like those people or like nothing like that matters. No, no, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Like I mean, the the events I'm referring to, I love the people who organise them, they're they're brilliant people, but it's just but there are certain ones, like certain, especially the ones that are the most kind of big and loud.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

I just know that I would not like that, and that and I think that's the thing. It's like there's the best the best thing is that there's space and room for all of us, and the great part of learning about yourself more and more, and building those boundaries and building that self-trust and learning to listen to more than just your noisy brain, is you start to become more discerning about who you say yes to, and then when you do say yes to them, the experiences are so much richer, the connections are so much stronger.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

I get asked, I get asked all the time. Like it's it's wait, sorry, go on, I interrupted you. Sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

No, you're good. I'm just saying it's because we're we're being navigated from a sense of our own truth rather than a sense of what we feel we should do. Yeah, exactly. And and also all or like if if for me, if ever I feel like I need to be someone that I'm not or impress somebody, I know immediately that they're not my people, and not even because of them, but because of me, like some kind of something in me is not being its best version in the context of that group or those people, and in that case, I'm just like, okay, I wish you well, but you're not my people because I can tell my people immediately because I of how do you find that if you're in the wrong room, do you feel like your guard goes up?

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Because I thought because I think that was where my my my problem was. I was in the wrong rooms, and because I felt under threat in those rooms, I turned into a bitch, and it was because I was in the wrong place, I think.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

I think I just I just more become more quiet, and and because I do a lot of public speaking, so I find myself in events that I probably myself might not go to, um, and with people who are like not necessarily my people, and in that instance, I just will make changes like I won't go to the speaker's dinner, I don't go to the drinks, I don't like and I don't do that to be rude or because I'm being judgmental, but because I feel uncomfortable. And so why would I want to put myself in a situation where I feel uncomfortable? I don't. I really I hope they go and have loads and loads of fun, but I disagree, it's just not for me. Whereas there'll be others where I go and I'm like, this is incredible, and I'll go and be the life and soul. And so it's uh it's not so much that it makes me have my guard up, it's more that it I will just retreat and I'll let myself retreat now rather than forcing myself to do something because I feel like that's what people expect from me.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah, so important, and I think it's you know, I have utmost respect for for people who put on these big events, like they are super stressful, it's it is hard, no matter what anybody says, it is hard to fill seats, and you know, it's they're all massive, massive things that these people are doing and putting, you know, putting big risks out there, and I have so much respect for those people. Um, you know, people ask me all the time, like, are you ever gonna do Visible Fest like in person? And I'm like, maybe I might do at some point, but it's not gonna be a massive, massive thing. It will be like hundred people. Um, you know, it will be a very, it will be quite a low-key. It's not gonna be a busy hype, lots of music, lots of loudness, party vibes. It will be a considered type of event that my autism can deal with. Um I love that event. Yeah, I mean, I I just I don't want it to be like, I mean, people see me and they're like, oh Maddie's big and bold and flashy, and like she wears bright colours and it's all very blur. But but this event, I don't, you know, the event that I'm trying to plan in my head is is not that. It's not a circus. It's I'm not saying not saying that big events are circuses, but it but it's not that kind of that that flamboyant type of thing. Like, I actually think that I need to make something that's a bit more considered and a bit more casual and a bit more calm and a bit relaxed. That's that's where I'm going with mine anyway. Anyway, I went off on a tangent again. Um, so the book, what's what's its launch date? When's it out? Where can we buy it?

SPEAKER_01 39:34

It's out on the 8th of March. Um, you can buy it on pre-sale now, but this podcast won't be going out until after. Um and you can buy it at all major bookshops, um, so wherever you get your books. And it's also available on Kindle and it will soon be available on audiobook. So you can get it wherever, wherever, in whatever way you need to digest your information.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

It's very exciting. Um, it is a brilliant book. Um, I am so excited to properly, properly sit down and like devour it. Like, I'm gonna take it on my solo holiday, I think, this year, and it's gonna be my, I think probably one of my life-changing books. Like, I've got I've got a little pile of them, and you know, I have obviously I've read some of it because obviously I wouldn't be able to talk to you about it. Um, I haven't completely finished, but what I have read has been just so super validating. Um, and you know, we we kind of touched on the fact that you know there are going to be some people who don't like this book, and I think it's because there are some bloody uncomfortable truths in there.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah. You won't like it if you are a trans-exclusionary, white, supremacist feminist. You won't hate it then. You won't like hate inclusion, which I don't think anyone who listens to your podcast will. I just like it.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

I mean, I think my podcast audience are probably the people who are gonna probably love your book more.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

I think so too. Um, but it does, it is, there are some points in it that are really uncomfortable. And I last year I trained as a trauma-informed somatics practitioner, and I have done my best to make it considerate and trauma-informed, and not in any way judgmental. So there's a lot of there's a lot of um, I guess in a way, caveats, but not caveats if that means no apologies, but ways of saying this is how you can read this book and be responsible for yourself and where you're at right now, your nervous system and your trauma, because some people just will not be ready yet for some of it. But that doesn't mean that, and it it's not to be invalidating for anybody's experience either. But for me, these lessons have been genuinely life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

And a and a book that is hard to read, not as in like the readability of it, but a book that is hard to read because you can see yourself in it, is probably the best book in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

So people go and buy it, like and sometimes those books you you start reading them, you're not there yet, you make the author you're like, fuck you, fuck you, Sophie, good, and then maybe you come back to it in five years' time or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Um I don't think I could ever say that about you. Um I'm also I'm really excited about actually being able to talk to my audience about this book because I think it's a fucking important book. Um and you are an important person doing fucking brilliant things, so it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. Um book Beyond Palatable, Manifesto for Apologetic, Unapologetic. Why can't I ever say that word? Women, men, trans people, non-binary people, like all the people, it might say women on it, but I think everybody can read this.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, in the in the introduction, I do say this is not just women, but but my publishing, it's kind of hard if you put like lots and lots of different monikers in there.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

I had like the like, because I I really wanted like my book to be um like mad about money, um, the ADHD guide to life, and they were like, no, you have to put finances in there because it's for the SEO and blah blah blah. And I'm like, oh for fuck's sake, like everything that like now I get all the feedback, and people are like, This book isn't just about money, is it? I'm like, no, but people think it is, and that's why they don't buy it, because they're like, my money situation's fine. I don't need to read this book. It's like you still need to read the book, you still need to read the book. Yeah, big books. But I've got exciting news as well because um, after a year of battling with my publisher, they have uh decided to release the rights to the audiobook to me. So there will be an audiobook format about money coming very, very soon. So perfect. So important for neurodivergent. I'm gonna get a new mic. And everything, although this baby, like which I'm not getting rid of you, darling. Like she's my friend. Um, but yeah, super excited. But anyway, um, where can people follow you?

SPEAKER_01 44:10

On you can get me on LinkedIn, um, on Instagram, uh Electric Peach Studios, and you can find out all about the book on beyondpalatable.com.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Tell us in the comments if you are gonna be buying this book. Um, if I I've actually bought a copy of it as well as the one that Sophie sent me because I, you know, I just like to support. Um, very excited about the book tour as well. Um, that is gonna be super good. There are still some dates available for the book tour, aren't there?

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah, we're going to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, York, Brighton, Sudbury, randomly. So that's where my mum lives. Um, so yeah, we'll always get for a free bed for the night, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. Um, for everybody listening, um, I'm Maddie. I've I've been Maddie throughout this podcast. I always say I've been Maddie, Alexander Grout, and then I'm like, no, I no, I still am. I'm I haven't changed. I haven't changed. Um, you can follow me as well, uh, Maddie Talks Money on Instagram, Mad About Money Official on TikTok, Maddie Alexander Grout, everywhere else. Um, if you've enjoyed this podcast, please hit the subscribe button. Um, leave us a review, leave us a comment, um, share with your friends because that is how this podcast will grow. And if you haven't listened to it already, go and check out our 100 Neurodivergent Voices podcast, which was my 100th podcast episode, which um aired fairly recently. Um, so yeah, thank you all for listening. We'll see you again next time. And thank you, Sophie. Thank you.