EP106- The Overlap Between Trauma and ADHD

This episode is a proper, unfiltered conversation between Maddy and Lucy Power about neurodivergence, trauma, identity, and what it really means to be yourself in a world that constantly tries to put you in a box.

From ADHD and autism to trauma responses, masking, queerness, and visibility—this is a deep, honest, sometimes funny, sometimes heavy chat about how our experiences shape who we are… and how we can start reclaiming that.

There are big conversations here. Real life. Real stories. And a lot of “oh shit, that makes sense.”

🧠 What We Talk About

•  Lucy’s journey into ADHD diagnosis later in life 
•  The overlap between trauma and neurodivergence
•  Why so many neurodivergent people carry trauma 
•  How trauma gets “stuck” and shows up in everyday life 
•  Masking, identity, and feeling like you don’t fit 
•  The pressure to conform to societal expectations 
•  Queerness, visibility, and living authentically 
•  Parenting, identity, and supporting neurodivergent kids 
•  The impact of cancel culture and social rejection 
•  Nervous system dysregulation and reactive behaviour 
•  What it actually means to be radically authentic

🔥 Key Takeaways

•  Trauma isn’t just what happened, it’s how your body holds it 
•  Neurodivergence and trauma can look very similar 
•  You’re not “too much”—you’ve just been unsupported 
•  Masking disconnects you from who you really are 
•  Identity is often a story we’ve been taught, not the truth 
•  Being yourself in a world that doesn’t get you is an act of rebellion 
•  You can build a life and business that actually fits who you are 

💬 Real Talk Moments

•  Maddy sharing her personal experiences with trauma, grief, and ADHD 
•  Lucy opening up about late diagnosis and queerness 
•  Honest chat about feeling excluded and self-protection responses 
•  The reality of raising neurodivergent kids and navigating identity 
•  A raw moment around grief and loss mid-recording 

💥 What Lucy is “Mad About”

Lucy shares what truly fires her up:

•  The way society treats trans people 
•  The impact of capitalism on wellbeing 
•  Global injustice and inequality 
•  And her deep passion for trauma work and transactional analysis

🧩 About Lucy

Lucy is a psychotherapeutic coach specialising in:

•  Trauma 
•  Neurodivergence 
•  Transactional Analysis 
•  Radical authenticity 

She helps people understand themselves on a deeper level and unlearn the layers that stop them from being who they truly are.

🌍 Connect with Lucy

•  Instagram: @IamLucyPower 
•  Facebook: Lucy Power 
•  LinkedIn: Lucy Power 
•  Email: lucy@iamlucypower.com

📲 Connect with Maddy

•  Instagram: Maddy Talks Money
•  TikTok: Mad About Money Official
•  Book: Mad About Money

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Mad About with me, Maddie Alexander Grout, the podcast where we talk about all the things that we're mad about. Mad passionate, mad angry, all the neurodivergent things when our brains go. And uh it's really exciting. Um so I'm talking, I'm joined today by the lovely, the wonderful, and the incredibly inspiring Lucy Power. Um, Lucy is a um lots of words that I can't even remember. Like therapeutic. We can't even remember what we were going to say because they were totally is basically like qualified in ridiculous amounts of stuff, including trauma, um, which I'm actually learning about myself now. And I'm like, it's helping me with me, and it's helping me with my clients, and it's helping me to understand my friends better and lots of different things. And it's very exciting. But I'm gonna actually ask Lucy to um to introduce herself so I can get the words right because it was really long, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

It was really long. Yeah, I've had my first complaint of the day that Maddy says that's really long words, all of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Long words. That's probably the worst intro I've ever done for anybody because I'm like therapeutic transformic. I can't even remember what words they were.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

I mean, you're welcome. I'm trained in psychotherapy, I'm not qualified. Psychotherapy, that was the one of the psychotherapeutic coach because I smushed the two together. I'm I'm a qualified and um personal and business coach. I've been teaching business coaches, personal and business coaches for over a decade in another long word, alerts, transactional analysis for coaches, which we're gonna I know we're gonna get on to this later because we are because my special interest.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

And also I was the person, like, and I'm thinking I'm the person who did that Facebook post about like this this this well-known wonderful coach who doesn't know what transactional analysis is.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

It wasn't about you, but wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Oh, I was I was like, oh boo. I was like, she said a nice thing, but I still didn't know what it was. But then when you said what it was, I was like, ah, yeah, totally know what that is, it's fine. Like I just I don't know, I think I don't know what I called it before. So we are going to talk about transactional analysis because I want to know more about it, and it's also very that's very difficult to say as well. So I feel like my tongue's too big for my mouth.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

I just feel a bit like I'm people must think I'm drunk because it's like I have to slow my words transactional analysis. It's there's too many vowels in it, and there there is, isn't there?

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Like, and I get I get this a lot. Like I was I was on my on my masterclass last night trying to say the title of my masterclass, and it came out as blue, blue blue blue, and I went, I'll put my tongue out of my mouth. What's the title? It was um why your content's not working, and it's not because it's not because it's shit. Um, but that was quite a long title. Yeah, it's quite long. It was long. I had 200 people register for it as well, which was insanity. I was so excited to watch the reading. Yeah, I mean, there was about 50 people on live, which is quite which is quite good. Um lots of people dropped off at the end when I said, you know, you don't have to buy for me if you don't want to. Bye, everybody. You know, I'm I never stress about these things, it's it is what it is. But anyway, so let's let's delve into a little bit about you. So you are neurodivergent. Um, tell me about your neurodivergence.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Well, I I thought it was pure uh no no mixer trauma for a long, long time. Eventually I got a diagnosis of ADHD, and then I went through the stage that I think so many of us go through when we get a diagnosis of thinking, yeah, but is it true though? Is it really though? I'm a really um so I went through that questioning myself. I do see, and I do know that I have ADHD. I've also um I'd like to say I've self-diagnosed, but this isn't true. My eldest child has diagnosed me as autistic. Um, they are an autism specialist, um, they're like um they're doing a PhD uh in that involves autism, it's autism adjacent, but they're also the I think their role is something to do with heading up the commissioning service for a major council in the UK. So yeah, they they really do know what they're talking about, and they're like, I don't have an official, but I'm like, no, it's trauma. So yeah, there's there's a huge intersection that I'm becoming more and more interested in and aware of between neurodivergence and trauma, and I am absolutely fascinated with trauma and with neurodivergence and how similar some of the presentations can be. Because I've always I I also have a diagnosis of CPTSD, complex post-traumatic stress syndrome disorder, something. Um disorder, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yes, I hate the fact that disordering a disorder. It's a horrible word, isn't it? Because it's like disorder makes you sound manic, and like I mean, I I always say that I think that the acronym for ADHD is rubbish because it's like attention deficit. Well, I know I've got a fucking attention abundance for loads of things, so like that's one thing. Um, you know, hyperactive. Like sometimes people are hyperactive within their brains rather than externally.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

That's the kind I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Like an inner inattentive ADHD is like the worst kind in my opinion, because like I'm I'm very much the the I'm I mean I'm combined, so I'm very much the hyperactive. I'm combined as well. Yeah. And then it's and then it's um and then disorder. Disorder makes you sound like you're some form of like reprobate that like society doesn't need that's true. Um so anyway, I went off on a tangent there, but that's but so I'm I'm not diagnosed officially well. I mean, I was told by a psychiatrist, again, it's not on paper, but during my ADHD diagnosis. Yeah, like during during my ADHD diagnosis, she was like, You're autistic, and I went, No, I'm not. And she was like, Yeah, you are. I'm like, Okay, um, well, we'll come back to that anyway. We kind of skirted over it, and uh, and then I started taking my ADHD meds, and I was like, Oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Wow, autistic things.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Yeah, so it was interesting. But I so I I think like my my views on ADHD and trauma is that like trauma trauma signs present sometimes as ADHD and vice versa, but so many people who have got ADHD have trauma because of the way that we've lived our lives, not knowing who we are, getting ourselves into different situations, and you know, I love I love the fact that like that I've learned that trauma isn't the event, it's how your body and everything feels afterwards, um, and you know, the reactions to that specific event. But you know, I talk about it a lot in my book. You know, there are a lot of traumatic things that have happened in my book. I mean, they didn't happen in the book, they happened in my life, you know. Um, and trigger warning um here because you know, there are I'm gonna mention some of them, postpartum psychosis. Um, you know, I literally wanted to, you know, unalive my child and myself um after pregnancy, it was horrendous. Um, I got raped when I was at university um by three different people in my own bedroom, like that was horrendous. Um there was you know, my my parents' divorce really, really traumatized me. Like my my I had to move house, but like by the time I'd realised I was moving house, I'd spent so much time at my boyfriend's house that my house had been moved and I didn't get a chance to say goodbye to my old house. Um, I'd dream about it all the time. It's really weird. Um, and you know, there were you know deaths and things like that that were that were traumatizing. Like my grandpa passed away, my my mother-in-law passed away. Like we we found out that she had three years to live, and then it turned out to be three weeks, and it was just super close and really, really quick. Um, and then you know, recently um my dad um then my dog died like two weeks after my dad. Um, I had the most horrendous year last year with cancel culture. Like basically a load of popular business owners were like, Yeah, Maddie's a bitch, fuck her. Um, and and and I got cancelled. I mean, I didn't, I was but you know, I just removed myself from certain circles. But there was a lot of trauma there as well. And when you've got ADHD, processing trauma is is is really difficult because we've got brains that are different.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Anyway, I went off on tangent, but um I believe that yeah, the that's really interesting, and thank you for sharing all of that, my dear, as well. But the the processing of trauma, because there is existing neurodivergence, it it stuff rattles around in us and processes differently. We have a different brain system, we we we we move information through our brains and our nervous system at a different pace, and sometimes it gets stuck, and sometimes we don't know how to process it, so it rattles around. I've been accused of being a grudge bearer, and that isn't who I think I am. However, I struggle to let things go because if they're not processed, they're still in me, they're still rattling around you. But you did say this thing in idea.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah, that's very much an autistic trait as well, where we replay conversations that we've had in our heads. Um, you know, we relive situations. What would have happened if I'd have done that part differently? Like if I hadn't have said that thing, if I hadn't have overshared, if I hadn't have done all these things. And it's it's very much like the shoulda, woulda, coulda, isn't it? Kind of it's it's hard, but we but we have had lives where, you know, I mean, even even just like you know, take the the kind of the subliminal messages that we get, it's something like 12, 12,000 negative pieces of information that that enter our brains before we're like 12 years old, which start which starts to form who we are as a person, and then we feel like actually we're shit. And then it's like you get an ADHD diagnosis. And I know a lot of people who get an ADHD diagnosis and they're like, oh my god, my life is over. Like, I cannot do that thing. Um, and one of my one of my biggest, biggest passions in life is helping people to understand that they are not broken. ADHD is not a superpower, it is absolutely 100% not is a disability. But if you learn how to manage your brain and manage and run your business around the way that your brain works and around your body and all of those things, then you can find your own personal superpowers, you can find the things that you're good at, that you're passionate about, that you love, that you can be like, yes, let's do this. But trauma comes into it, and that's the whole reason why I was like, I need to train in this, because like if I can then help my clients, then you know, then I know where I'm coming from. And I feel like it's the responsible thing to do as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

It's really responsible. I as you said, when we grow up neurodivergent inside a family that doesn't understand or accept us, inside a society that doesn't understand or accept us, inside a body that we don't understand and accept, and haven't got any support or help to do so, we we end up um splitting off parts of ourselves, not owning, not accepting, not claiming, not homogenizing those parts of ourselves, and then we start struggling. And in among all of that, trauma shoots up like little caring mushrooms in the middle of our neurodivergency, and then we're then we present as we present, and some of it is trauma, and some of it is neurodivergence.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

It resurfaces as well, doesn't it? Like, you know, so so I mean, my my dad passing away that was really traumatic. Like, I I had no no clue that it was gonna happen. Like the last time I saw him, he was the best he'd ever been. Like, obviously, you know, you know your parents are gonna die at some point, but it was just massively unexpected, and that sent me into the biggest trauma. And then I was like, Did I do enough? Did I do all these things? And it's just in my head, and you know, I I've spent the last four months processing that, and it still creeps in. Like, like yesterday, like I was I was telling you before that I found out um how my dad died last night, yesterday, kind of afternoon, and uh it wasn't what I was expecting. And the the response to that phone call that I had was for me to burst into tears um outside the passport office, and the policeman being like, It's not the end of the world if you can't get your passport, you know, you can you can apply again, and I'm like, It's not that, my dad died, and he was like, Oh my god, I'm really sorry. And I was like, It was four months ago, don't worry about it. But the thing is, I mean, grief is very traumatic, isn't it? Like and that's the sort of thing that plays and and traumas can resurface. I mean, like the the time that I that I had like in the business world where like this whole cancel culture thing was going, like I had past traumas from like being bullied in the workplace, being bullied at school, like being triggered by that. Yeah, and it wasn't necessarily bullying, but I felt like I was being cast aside and kind of you know, like almost people being like, don't talk to Maddie because she's a horrible person.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

When I would call that bullying lady, I would call that weird.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

It was hard, and like the thing is like the more the more that I recognize this, and we've been talking about this a little bit in our sessions, haven't we? That I didn't do things the way I sh should have done. Um, you know, I said a few things that I that I definitely like regret saying. There are ways that I behaved that I regret, but the reason I did those, it was kind of like a self-preservation thing because I could see it coming. Um, and so I kind of put this barrier up around myself where I was just like, I can't talk about this. Like, and actually, these people are being horrible to me. This is what's happened to me. I need to vocally process it. And I wasn't meaning to be a horrible person, I wasn't meaning to be a bitch, but I ended up getting that label because I was processing out loud, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

It really does. There's nothing bitch about you at all, and you've shared that you know, you you you've obviously got great pattern recognition because of your AD. We often know what's coming, and then we start to prepare for it. And if you're if you knew what was coming was that you were about to be excluded by a group of people who you valued, you're going to exclude yourself before they can do it to you.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, which is it's self-sabotage, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

But I definitely trauma response and it's also a really clever ADHD response. It's a it's a look, I can see this coming. I'm going to take control of it so that it's not done to me. It's something that I'm setting up for myself, and then at least I know it's going to happen. And it's a it's a way of calming and regulating your nervous system.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yes, yeah. And and and it's it's really tough actually when like and I think I've got ADHD do not have regulated nervous systems as it is, because there's so many things going on, you know, we're tapped out most of the time, we're like really low on spoons, we're low on energy. Um, and actually, all of those things that that come together make us just sometimes a little manic, and like we don't think through situations and we react, we're very reactive people. Um, so sometimes that can get us into trouble.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

I find where we are dysregulated, we're much more likely to think and feel and behave as we did when we were younger. So we will be more impulsive. Um, not necessarily reactionary. I'm I'm being careful about the words I use, but we're more impulsive, more spontaneous in our um in how we present to the world. But that can come across as being like a manic bitch. But actually, what we are is we're in survival mode within. That would be great. I really mean merch.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah, I mean, I do have some merch a little bit, like I've got some t-shirt design. Yeah, manic bitch, lovely.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Manic bitch, manic bitch with ADHD.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

I come on this podcast, I'm like, I've got new ideas. This is the problem in ADHD brains. We have too many things that go all of very exciting. Oh, interesting. So, how did you get into doing what you do?

SPEAKER_00 15:45

I mean, probably special interest. I mean, uh initially I was a social worker, so I started off being a support worker for vulnerable people, mainly at that point, people with learning difficulties with a diagnosed label of having a learning difficulty, a lot of who were newer divergent. I was really, you're gonna be like, oh yeah, really drawn and really fascinated by autistic people at that point in my life. And I ended up fostering an autistic two and a half year old. Um, I offered respite fostering for him, so he came to stay with me every two weekends throughout his life until he was, you know, turned as an adult by social services. So he's the one of the best things that's ever happened to my world, and he still comes to stay quite regularly because we've got a drum kit mainly. Nice of the drum kit.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

I want to come and stay because you've got a drum kit.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

He's very welcome to come and stay, have a go on the drums. We've got a drumming room down the end of the garden.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

I'm terrible at it, but I love drumming. Like, I I mean it was when I was at school, I used to like boys who drummed um because it was just I don't know what it was. It's just like just it's like ape aggression, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 16:52

It's great, yeah. I love to watch drums. She's good at it. She's really good. But yeah, so I was really drawn to to neurodivergent people, really drawn to kind of people that lived on the edges of society for some reason. I didn't understand it in myself, so it's very obvious now why. But um, slowly and surely I came home to myself, understood that I'm queer, that I'm neurodivergent myself, that I carried the scar tissues of some early childhood trauma, attachment trauma. And then I started to understand myself and others in tandem, and I developed what is is termed in society it's expertise, which you know we know is special interest in transactional analysis, trauma, neurodivergency, and kind of all the different places that they intersect, and yeah, that that stuff fascinates me.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Um I think as as soon as I realized that I was neurodivergent, and like weirdly though, I never accepted that I was neurodivergent. I didn't see dyslexia as being a neurodivergent thing. And I got diagnosed with dyslexia when I was like seven, so I've always been neurodivergent. I just didn't like see that, I didn't really realise that other things came along with it. And then like I got my official ADHD and my autism kind of at the same time, which was not really official, but it was official if that makes sense. Um, and then I just through through doing my qualification, I learned about all of the rest of it. And I was like, oh, okay, I am dyspraxic, I am dyslexic, I've got dyscalculia, I've got dysgraphia, um, I even have I've got mild Tourette's. I have ticks that people do not know. I mean, the thing is though, if you if you if you know about them, you know about them and you will notice them. But my my husband is the worst. I do this like, and I I do a lot of stimming as well. There's like I do this like it's kind of like a sexual grunting um when I'm concentrating and like when I'm doing certain things. Um I've got a shoulder twitch that it just it does its own thing, just randomly.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

My partner has both of those things.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Yeah, um and shoulder. My eye, I've got a twitchy eye as well. Like, but sometimes that's more tiredness. Yeah, that's just being a mum and like having a fucking new puppy that gets up at four like 5 30 in the morning, and a husband that doesn't get up with him sometimes. Like this morning, Rufus woke up at 5 30 and I was just like kicking James, and he was just like, I'm tired. And I was like, fine, I'll get up with him. So I got up with him, and then two seconds later, James got up. I was like, You could have done that earlier, and then I wouldn't have had to get out of bed.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

God James.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Like men. I'm not a man hater, by the way, just my husband.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Neither am I. I'm just a lesbian, that they are different things.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

There's difference, yeah, just because you you don't have to hate men. Like men aren't the the source of all evil. I mean, some of them are, but patriarchy is, but men are yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely, and yeah, we can be mad about that for sure. Absolutely. Um, so how old were you when you discovered that you were neurodivergent?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Actually discovered, went for a diagnosis and got the diagnosis. That was in 2020. Wow, actually, really recently. Yeah, I mean, I think I'd suspect it, and that was 27. Pardon? You're what, 27? Yeah, I'm 27 now, obviously. Yeah, it's painful all to see that I'm 27 now.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yes, clearly.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

How old was I in 2020? I think 40. Was I 49 in 2020? Yes, because I would have been 50 in 2021. So I was born in 1971. Yeah, so I was relatively very old, really. Um, and I don't know what led me to go for the diagnosis either. Me and my partner did one together in tandem. We did it privately because we couldn't be waiting.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

That's like a romantic expedition type thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

It's beautiful dates.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

I love that. Hey, let's go get diagnoses together. It's really bonding, isn't it? Couple who diagnose together stay together, I really I think that theory is good because it means that you can understand each other better, and I love that. Like it's definitely the way forward. Like, you know, I I always say about my my my husband pretending. I mean, he doesn't pretend, like he just he is a very like neurotypical presenting man who seems neurotypical.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I think I'm high masking. I I once had a compliment from this one. I'm masking in all sorts of different ways. I've I've hidden my lesbianism for all of my life. Um and now I'm hiding it, but some but um why is that just fear of judgment and homophobia?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Yeah, the I mean it is it's a it's a genuine fear.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

It's dangerous out there for the gays. It really is. I remember I was I had a director's job and it I was really proud of myself. You know, I was very, very successful at that part of my life. And this other director, she was the sister of the owner of the company. She came up to me and said, Lucy, I've got a compliment for you. And I was like, Oh, lovely. I'd recently had my hair done, I've regularly had my hair done, and I was excited, I was about to be given this amazing compliment. We were all going up for dinner that night as well, so I was like, Yeah, make me feel good. Come on, give me it.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

I wasn't like you're the biggest twat I've ever met.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

It wasn't you're the biggest twat I've ever met, but it was you don't look like a lesbian. And I was like, super confused about it. Well, obviously, I do look like a lesbian because I am a lesbian, and so therefore, this is what lesbians look like.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

I mean, no, I've had that as well. Being neurodivergent, like they don't have a look, do they?

SPEAKER_00 22:24

They don't have a look. I mean, there is they do have a stereotype.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Stereotype, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

But not a look, not a vibe.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

You know, because there is the stereotypical. And you know, and on autistic Barbie, I do think that she is a very good idea. I think there needs to be something out there for young girls to be able to go, I see myself in that person. We need a queer, we need a we need, we need a we need a queer Barbie.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Why is it that's a piece of trauma for certainly for me? Grew up with ADHD at the very least.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Um, non-binary Barbie called Barbie.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah, we do need a non-binary Barbie. Why is it like she's a Mattel right now, Maddy?

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Because because my daughter would not fucking dream of playing with a Barbie. Never in a minute. No, neither would ours. No, but if there was a non-binary Barb, then possibly. Like, because my my daughter, like, and I'm I I'm not gonna put a label on her, I'm not gonna say she's trans, she's not non-binary. At the moment, she is happy being a girl, but previously she wanted to be a boy, and she from the age of like 18 months, and people are always like, How can they tell you 18 months? Well, trust me, she was a good in we were in the pandemic, we spent a lot of time at home, and she was like, I want to be a boy mummy. She made my my 90 odd year old grandmother refer to her as a boy. And if my if if if if my grandmother ever said you're a good girl, Harriet would be like, I'm a boy. Um she decided she didn't want to be Harriet, she wanted to be Harry. We were fine with that. It's a good danger. I mean, like we didn't plan that, but it but it's worked really well. Harry with an eye. Um, and and it was like, do you know what? Like about a year or about a year or so ago, she went, Mummy, I think I'm gonna be a girl now. I said, That's okay, darling. You can be whatever you want to be. Like you you can be a boy, you can be non-binary, and we've we've explained to her what non what non-binary is, we've explained to her about trans because we had um we had an incident in the playground where a boy shouted and pointed, your sister's trans, uh, to Ben. And he was like, What? Um, and I turned around to the boys and I said, So what if she was? But she's six, she's fucking six. Like, do not come and say something like that to her, and like if she was, absolutely fine, but like don't fucking judge somebody before you know. It's not good to say either.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

It's for us all.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

They were learning about it in PSHE, which I think is a good thing. You know, it's very it's good that, but but it's not something to take the piss out of somebody for, and it was an accusatory you're trans. It wasn't like, hey Ben, is your sister transgender? Because that would be totally acceptable. Um, and even then I would be like, She is six because she's fucking six, you know. She doesn't know when saying she doesn't know her own mind is not what I'm gonna say because 100% there are lots of trans people that I know who knew from that early age. So and and actually, so that you know, therefore, we have him like if she wants to be a she, like she's happy being a she at the moment, so Harry is a she, but whatever she decides in the future, it will absolutely not surprise me, and we will be there for her, whatever she decides she wants to do. Um, and I and I it it just it wouldn't surprise me if it was if it was either way. Um, she doesn't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

I would love to hear more parents talk like you are buddy.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

I think I think we should. I think we should be more open about it um and more open about it with our children so that they don't suddenly go when they're 16, oh my god, I wish I was, you know, I wish I was a boy, I wish I was a girl, like I've I I'm born in the wrong body because they do know when something doesn't feel right, when it's early on. Yeah, we get to trust them with that, and we get to show them that they can trust themselves with that. Because they know themselves, they know who they are. Like, and Harriet is the most headstrong person. Like, you know, I'm more worried about her being a criminal than I am her being trans. Because she's a stealer, she steals everything. Like, she's she's like she's a bit of a sugar addict, and she's like, I'm going to have this, and I'm gonna stash all the wrappers under my bed so mummy doesn't know about it. And I'm like, hmm. She'll either she'll either be a really good business owner, like a lawyer or a barrister or a salesperson, or definitely a criminal. We're hoping to steer her away from the criminality part. Maybe. Yeah, I think more if more people talked about, you know, and I'm hoping that actually the the the edits of this, like that me talking, because I'm I talk about it very openly. I've had a lot of abuse talking about how my six-year-old could be trans or could be non-binary.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Um, but we six-year-old could be anything, our potential is infinite, and it and we get to choose how to define and you know, present ourselves and how to know ourselves as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yeah, and and also as well, I think it's a really good message for all parents that your child could be trans or non-binary, even if you don't see it, they could be.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

I've seen this somewhere. If you are not willing to accept and love and embrace your child as queer or as as as as um gender variant uh or as neurodivergent, do not have fucking children.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, if you're neurodivergent, I mean like I I'm talking about this in the press actually later today about the fact like I I was asked a question, would you have had children if you'd have known you were neurodivergent? And I honestly don't know if I could answer that question because like yeah, it's a but it's a weird one because like I I think if if I think if I'd have known I was neurodivergent, I still would have wanted to have children. Like, I don't know why I wanted to have them, like having them, the the reality of having them is so different to like wanting to have um I love my kids, like I love my kids more than anything, like they are adorable dickheads, but they are also my adorable dickheads, and like both of them neurodivergent, like Ben's Ben's ADHD um and autistic, Harriet is just super autistic, she's just very autistic. And like I think if I had known that I was neurodivergent, I might not have had two. Um, I might have just stuck at one because one was overwhelming, and then accidentally Harry came along, and like she's just been a whirlwind of crazy since then. Um, and I definitely would have got a fucking puppy. Like, I mean, I knew I was neurodivergent when I got a puppy, but how did I not think, oh my god, this is just gonna add so many extra layers of complication to my life? He took a poo on my bed this morning.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

What a wazook!

SPEAKER_02 28:56

He's not my friend anymore. Like, I've left him downstairs. I'm like, no, not talking to you. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go and play with him in a minute, but he's like definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Dolly's not my friend at the moment. He nearly murdered someone who came to the door last night, someone who we absolutely love. So he's not my friend. I'm just ignoring them. I'm gonna take him for a very long walk to try to run his.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah, Lucas can't go out. He can go out from tomorrow. Oh, he had his cabs on Monday. So, um, so I'm gonna take him for his first walk, and I've decided I'm gonna get one of those extendy leads because there's no chance I can't lead. I'm too terrified. So I'm gonna take him out, and uh that's gonna be my first job for like tomorrow after Ben's football, because I have to be a football mum, which like for anybody who's listening who's a football mum, like why do we do this to ourselves? Like, I 100% love my kids, but football, I don't like it. Yeah, it's annoying anyway. That's a that's another story. Anyway, so we were talking about you, like so one of the themes of this podcast is visibility, and we talk a lot about like unmasking, showing up as you, like the real you, without without fear, without judgment, without like has that changed a little bit now that you've got older? Are you a little bit more brave about going out there and I mean obviously you're doing this podcast, so people are gonna know that you're queer, people are gonna know that you have had trauma and all those kind of things. But let's talk a little bit about like the visibility and like how you can actually like own some of those things so you can like and I always I've I've got my uh my my own your soundtrack tattoo, which is uh which is this. It's my like my my tape player with my heart. Um it's all about like owning your soundtrack and just knowing that you are you and that actually if you're scared of being you to the to the whole world, it's the world that's the problem, not you.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Absolutely. So I've always been there. This is nothing to do with my journey into accepting my neurodivergence or or queerness either. I mean, I've known I was queer since at least by the time I was 12, and if not before, I just don't really remember much of my childhood. But um, so it's never been a secret, and I've always been completely out about it. So by the time I started my business and came into the online space, I have been uh openly queer, proudly queer, and you know, I define as a lesbian, um, not I have no problem with that word.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I know a lot of queer people do have problem with that word because it's it just feels it's a long, it's a long word and it kind of like it's a long word. I don't know, like it just it sounds very lesbian. It's I think it's a weird do you know what I mean? I think it's because I've heard it a lot in my time as well. Yeah, and it's it's kind of a jeery word, isn't it? But it also does it's not a nice sounding word.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I'm quite happy to reclaim it. It has been a jury word. Me as well. But yeah, so there's no secrets in me at all, and I haven't made a business out of my neurodivergence, my queerness, my anything like that. But I have made a business about helping people to become radically authentic, which is about despite the fact that we live in late-stage capitalism, despite the fact we live in a heteronormative patriarchy, let's be authentic, let's be ourselves, let's see what it is that's hiding the light of ourselves, and that can be trauma, that can be secrets that from ourselves and within ourselves, that can be the multi-layers of the impact.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Another podcast that you'd be perfect for, actually. Like, I'm just gonna give a big massive shout out to my friend Jen Wilson, um, who runs the Irregular Humans podcast. Um, oh you know Jen, yes. You know Jen. Jen is a very good friend of mine, and like they are does all the things you've just said, it's just like absolutely all of those things. Like, I just can see you guys getting some genuinely good chats going.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah, I've got my eye on Jen, and I do think we've got on really well actually. Yeah, that's all.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Like, Jen is one of the most like loving and supportive humans that I I think I've ever come across. Um yeah, yeah, but but also they're not afraid to call me out when I'm being a twat, which I really appreciate from a friend, because sometimes we don't need that. Yeah, we all need that. Yeah, it's nice, but anyway, yeah, I'll I'll hook you guys up.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Um, more about being radically authentic and helping people to discover sometimes for the first time who they actually are and find ways to bring that out of themselves and be who they are. So I know people that have have run businesses that is like helping people to come out as their true selves, but I don't want to link it necessarily to anything particularly queer because that's just that's just not my vibe.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

It's about owning owning who you are. Let's be honest, not who you think people want you to be, right? Yeah um I I have I have this a lot, um, you know, in in my world where like you know, no, I'm I'm an open book, like everything that I talk about, people are I don't think I mean I could I could tell people that I was a secret belly dancer or something, and people would be like, Oh cool, yeah, whatever. Like, yeah, that genuinely I don't think I could shock anybody. Um just so me all the time, and I'm just like unapologetically, like this is me, fucking like it or lump it. Like that's how that's how like we're meant to be in the world, like and and there's there's no but like but I and I did I was talking about this on my on my masterclass last night, like all of the things that that go on in the background um that stop us from showing up, and there is you know identity such a big thing, um you know, identity confusion, and I'm not saying like you know, you're not you know, like gender confusion, but but being being unsure of who you are, um and trauma can really link into that, can't it?

SPEAKER_00 35:03

It really can. And I see identity as the story that we tell ourselves about who we are, and it's not always necessarily accurate, true, or reflective of who we actually are. Yeah, you know, I'm a cis woman and I was raised by heterosexual parents who assumed I was gonna grow up and marry a man, get a golden labrador, have two children, possibly called Quinton and Henry or something. Oh love it.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Oh, Ben was almost Henry, I'm so glad he wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Godved out path for who I was meant to be, and who I really am couldn't fit into that at all and was never going to. And I spent some time, there's a thing called compulsory heteronormativity, and there was some time that another long word, Maddie, I know. There was some time that I thought, right, no, I I need to sort this out. I need to be able to get a boyfriend, I need to be able to fulfil my parents' expectations of me in societies because that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

My dad actually was convinced that I was going to be a lesbian. So my best friend, Rach, like we she's my wife. Like, we like if if I wasn't married to James, I'd be married to Rach because she is just like my she is my probably my second favourite person. I mean, let's not count the kids, but like we've been best friends since we were 11. And my my dad just all the time used to drive, he used to be like, So, when are you guys like coming out? Like, what when's it when's this happening? Um, and it's it's just I think my dad my dad was actually really, really accepting of that. And and my mum was like, Don't be so stupid, Bob. She's not a lesbian. Look at that, all the boyfriends she's had. I was a bit slutty back in my youth.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Not always a thing, though. I had a lot of boyfriends as well, but that was compulsory heterosexuality.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Like, really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah, finding ourselves to be really hard, neurodivergence can make it so hard to actually go on a treasure hunt and find out who we really are.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

We can get lost so easily, we can go off down tracks that aren't really linked to our identity and who we truly are. And oh, it's yeah, it's tricky.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

And it's it's that conformity, that social, that social norm, but also in a world like we're in today, fear, like massive fear. It's like, you know, if if if anybody says something which doesn't conform to the stereotypical, like what a normal person should be, um, then they get they get persecuted for it. They get like they they get taunted and bullied and horrible stuff. But do you know what though? I think the youth of today are so much better at it than we were.

unknown 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Because there's also that generational thing. It's like I um like one of one of my best friends, um, like actually, I can't really tell the story because it's not just going back on myself thinking because it's not my story to tell. Yeah, yeah. But a very good friend of mine um told me like that that their their sister had had had come out and said that they were dating a woman. Um, and that and that is not something that I was shocked about at all, because I think new. Um but it but it's that thing where I think there is because being non-binary is is actually quite a like normalized thing now, and teenagers are hearing more about it on social media, etc. I think that that generation is gonna change the world. It's our generation, I think, that's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

And our parents' generation.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Oh, those more than us, obviously. Yeah, but I but I think it's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 38:38

So I my oldest child is a millennial and very much a millennial.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Like, so I'm not sure where I sit anymore. Like, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

They don't call it avocado on toast, they call it avocado toast. Avocado toast, yeah. Um, so I'm Generation X and some coronaphoning me.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Let's okay, let's see what the coroner has to say. Hello yeah, speaking. Oh, hi uh yes, yeah. Okay, um, can I give you a call back? Is that all right? Because I'm just in the middle of a work call and I haven't got my diary in front of me. Okay, that's fine, I'll give you a ring back. Oh yes, I do. Yeah, I'll just take the number. Hang on, uh just hang on, eight two. So can you give me the whole thing, including the code? Is it oh one? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, lovely, that's perfect. Thank you very much. Okay, thanks, Sam. Bye. I have to go and register my father's death. That's that's a really morbid thing to do, isn't it? Sorry about that. I'll quickly cut that bit out. I didn't I didn't realize I mean it because it is it's a registering of births and deaths, isn't it? You have to do it. Oh well, it looks like I'm going for a trip to the RFI. Are you okay, Maddie? Yes, no, I'm fine. Absolutely fine. Like it's you know, it's it's part of the process. Like, I probably won't be fine when I actually do it, but you know, talk about it on the phone. Yeah, it's all good. Anyway, where were we? We got sidetracked. We were we did get sidetracked. Silly coroner, sorry. Well, I have got just had a pass a message from the passport office saying that my passport is ready. See yesterday is is done. Things and roundabouts, fucking yesterday. By the time this podcast comes out, yesterday will probably be about eight weeks ago. So, like, you know, we're good.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Well what else do we need to talk about? Let's let's get on to that.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

So I want to ask you what you're mad about. We're gonna talk about transactional analysis, weren't we? Yeah, we're mad about that, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Yeah, ask me what I'm mad about. Have you just done that?

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah, what are you mad about?

SPEAKER_00 41:04

I'm mad about. I mean, I asked you what mad meant earlier. Like, what does it mean? Is it is it what am I angry about? Because I'm angry about a lot of things. Or what is it? I'm so enthusiastic about that if you get me on the subject, you'll have to kind of wrench me off it.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

I might have to wrench you off it because we've got about five minutes left.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

But what can then be? I'm mad about the way trans people are treated by society. I'm mad about the way capitalism wrenches the goodness out of everybody. I'm mad about the all the shit going on in America and how terrifying it is. For the people that live over there, especially the gay ones, especially the neurodivisible ones, especially the immigrants, especially the people who live on the edges of American society. I'm really mad about all these things.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yeah, I'm really mad about them. But I'm mad about transactional analysis and trauma. They are my special interest since I've discovered both of them. I'm absolutely mad about them, and I'm really excited that I've recently had one of it's a programme I've been offering for quite a while, and it's something I've been teaching for well over a decade, but transactional analysis for coaching and leadership. I've recently had a certification accredited by the International Coaching Federation, so I'm really excited about that. And that's my like signature programme that then leads on to my diploma in integrative therapeutic coaching, which is transactional analysis heavy, but also loads of other therapeutic methodologies as well, and with a lovely. I know I'm so totally doing a business that expresses who I am and what I'm mad about, what I'm really, really passionate about in my life. So I'm in joy when I talk about all the things I offer and do.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

And do you know what? This is like this is what I talk about as well. You know, when you when you are passionate, when you are in line, when you are ethical, when you are doing something that completely aligns with your values, you can be mad about it and you can make shit tons of money. And this is what I teach my clients, and I fucking love it. So that is the most perfect answer ever. Um, Lucy, how how do people find you? Where are you? What's the best place for people to connect?

SPEAKER_00 43:14

So I am on um, I mean, I am on email, which is Lucy at IamlucyPower.com. I am on Facebook, Lucy Power, I'm on LinkedIn, Lucy Power, on Instagram, on at Iam Lucy Power. Like my name's Lucy Power, and I'm not going to hide up.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Like, she has the power. I love the fact that your surname is power. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

I love it so much. I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

It's literally the best surname I've ever come across. I kind of feel like I'm I it's just, yeah, I want it. I I do want it. Like, can we get married so I can have your surname? Yeah, of course. Like that would be I mean, I mean power is definitely better than grout, though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 43:54

I mean we can write it. Grout, power, power, grout. I don't think that'll work. Maybe power grout. Power. Something you might buy down by being cute, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Grout power sounds like some weird vibrator or something.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Maybe we should design what Grout Power looks like. But you know, if we collaborate, that's totally what we've got.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

We could brand it, couldn't we? We could have a personal brand for our new marriage.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Power Grout. I mean power grout. Oh no, no, no. Here we go. This is a marketing thing. Power Grout. The thing that glues you together.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Oh gosh, that's absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Okay, right. On that note, on that note, we have to say goodbye to the fantastic, fucking wonderful Lucy Power. I have loved this. I'm loving her programme. Um, just loving being in her world, actually. Um, so thank you so much, Lucy. Um, this probably won't be the last time we see you on here. Um, we'll definitely get you back. Um, if anybody has liked this episode, please hit the subscribe button. Um, give me a follow as well. Maddie Talks Money on uh Instagram, Mad About Money Official on uh TikTok, and uh everywhere else, just Maddie Alexander Grout. And buy my book, please. Maddie Alexander. Yes, really good. I'm reading it. Managing Finances and Life with ADHD. Um, this will help you. Um and uh yeah, I'm Maddie. I will see you next time. Thanks for listening.