EP108- From Cult To Courage- with Ben Gibbons

This week on Mad About, I’m joined by one of my favourite clients, the lovely Ben Gibbons.

Ben is the founder of Nimble Photography, creating a safe and comfortable wedding photography experience for LGBTQIA+ and neurodivergent people. But that is only part of his story.

In this episode, Ben opens up about growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, being outed, going through conversion therapy, becoming homeless, and the huge journey of trying to work out who he really was after years of being told not to be himself.

We talk about trauma, rejection sensitivity, ADHD, autism, religion, politics, safeguarding, visibility, personal brand, and what happens when you finally stop shrinking and start speaking.

This is a really raw, brave and important conversation about identity, survival and finding your voice.

We cover:

•  growing up in a strict religious environment 
•  being neurodivergent and feeling different from the start 
•  the reality and impact of conversion therapy 
•  losing family and rebuilding life from the ground up 
•  chosen family, healing and love 
•  confidence, TikTok and showing up online 
•  standing up for your values in public 
•  creating change through visibility 

Trigger warning: this episode contains discussion of conversion therapy, suicidal ideation, homelessness, religious trauma, rejection, mental health, and discrimination.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Mad About. I'm Daddy Alexander Grouch and this is the podcast where we talk about all the things that we are mad about in a neurodivergent way. So we could be mad about anything, we could be mad passionate, we can be mad cross, we can be mad angry, we can be mad frustrated. But mad means so many different things to so many different people. And this is the podcast where we talk about all of it. And I'm mad about the people that I always have on my show. And today's guest is no exception. Today's guest is a lovely guy given, who is one of my favourite clients. He is the founder of Nimble, which is a photography company that makes LGBTQIA and neurodivergent people feel really comfortable when they're getting married. Because the last thing we want is like posing for really horrible pictures, and we can get some really nice candidatures, right? Ben is also going to be standing for the Green Party, which is very exciting. So I'm sure we're going to be talking about politics. And he's also an ex-Jehovah's Witness. And he grew up living, in his words, inside a culture. So we are going to unpack all of that. Good morning, Ben. How the fuck are you today, my darling?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I'm good, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

It's bloody wonderful to have you on. So the first question I'm going to ask you is the one that I asked I ask everybody. But what is it at the moment that you are mad about in any context? You can be you could be mad about anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

All sorts, like I said in my video, sort of running a business that is open to all and there to make everyone feel comfortable. And I'm mad about um getting more safeguarding into faith groups, um, such as I found along my journey um growing up. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Love it. Love it. So I want to know your story. Uh, the the deep, the dark, the ugly, the stuff that we don't talk about in public. Um, I want to know like how um you have got from where you are, where you were years ago to to where you are now. So tell me the story.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Um, well, where to begin? Sort of obviously I was born into the Jehovah's Witness um religion. Um, but yeah, I was born into it um to very strong believers. Raised throughout, um, went through standard sort of bullying at school for being very different. Not only am I neurotypical, um not only am I neurodivergent, but also I have this weird religion that where I don't do birthdays or Christmas and certain things like Harry Potter, which were big back then, um, were banned along with Pokemon, which I believe is one good one. Um but yeah, and then around the age of 20, um, I was outed by my then best friend, and this led to me being put through conversion therapy. Um about that. So conversion therapy is not it's not therapy, it's a torture, um, where they try and program you into being straight, is the only sort of way, but it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Um we all know you can't you can't pray the gay away, can you?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

No, no, so like the the amount of times you say, Oh, they managed to work for me, possibly a bisexual person that is high then suppressing that side of them, or a gay person that doesn't feel safe in the environment they are, so they have to get back into the closet and hide it. Um it doesn't work, you can't we can't turn you gay, um, no matter what people say. Um I was brought up during section 28, which meant they couldn't talk about gay people in school. I was brought up in a family where even the sight of a gay person in something it was turned off. So I am the furthest from being sort of groomed to be gay, as they say. Yeah. Um, when everything I consumed growing up was straight content. So so yeah, um obviously the conversion therapy didn't work, um, and then I landed up homeless for several years. Um well, no fixed abode because I was in and out of different places. Yeah, um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

That must have been so tough. It was really hard. Um so when you're when your best friend outed you, how did you feel about that?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Well, as soon as I'd seen that they'd seen me on a date, I knew it was coming. Um because everyone is brought up to dob on each other and sort of it's grim. But yeah. So you knew that even like your closest friends they would tell on you no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

That's really horrible, isn't it? Living in a living in a community where A, you can't be yourself, B, you're judged for being yourself, and C where you know you're already probably feeling like you don't fit in anywhere because of the fact that you're neurodivergent and you've always felt different, and being shamed for that thing. So, I mean, we've we've had conversations about the sort of thing that they used to make you do in conversion therapy. I feel like it's quite prevalent if you're right to talk about that and to tell people how it how it was.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

So I'll take two examples. Well, the begin beginning and where we progressed to. Obviously, at the beginning it was just basic Bible study, praying, and sort of repetitive as to the subject matter and what we were praying about, and it was over and over and over and over and over and over. Um, I had my life restricted to the point where I wasn't allowed to leave the house without any like a chaperone, or if I was at work or whatever, I had to have not at work, I had to have a chaperone, but anything else. I had to be chaperoned by someone they they trusted. Um then changing my wardrobe, changing my hair, taking away any kind of inju in individuality hate that word, but yeah, tried to take my individuality away. And I think as they saw my so my sort of soul breaking, they saw it as working because my jolly bouncy self had gone. Um but this progressed um over months and got to the point where they had me putting stuff onto my fingernails or straight onto my tongue whenever I had an impure thought, um, which would make me feel violently sick. Um, this is known as a aversion therapy, um, where they use something either painful or uncomfortable things like that to make you hate something or to make it so that it doesn't make you feel good anymore. They program you to feel sick. Um but that's then led to all sorts of issues throughout life um because of mental health, um, confidence issues, um, and different things that were all linked to the way that they were making me feel with these these little trinkets and whatever they are, tink tintures, that's it, um, of file tasting stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Um but find out what they were.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

No idea. Um the closest I could think would be like bitter, like I think it was bitter aloes or something that was put on my thumb as a baby um to stop me sucking my thumb. Um, so possibly they knew that it worked. So they could have got that information from family. Um but yeah, I I don't know exactly what it was. It was just in a bottle.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

It could be poison or something. It's scary, it's really scary. And and and they made you watch lesbian porn.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

They did. And to eat sweets and things that make me feel good. Which it it goes against everything because they told me I was to touch myself and all sorts when I was watching the ghost behind you.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Is it a cat?

SPEAKER_01 9:47

That'll be my cat. The spirits of the giant they come in. I told you they were watching me. Well that is that is just like yeah, like we're brought up as you're not allowed to, it's like you're not allowed to touch yourself or anything, look at porn, and then I had this elder telling me to watch porn, um, and not just any porn, um, lesbian porn because a man being in the video would have been too distracting. Right, like so not only did they get me to watch gay porn, but also to touch myself, so I'm breaking multiple of their rules in some kind of attempt for them to try and convert me, which has been proven time and time again that it doesn't work, and in fact, it pushed me to the point where a stranger on the internet talked me off a bridge on the M6. Um God but yeah, so it got me beyond any point anyone should ever get to.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

I'm glad that stranger talked you down because I like having you around.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

I'm pretty I I'm pretty enjoying life now. It's rough, rough for a few years.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

So, I mean, first of all, let's talk about the rejection sensitivity part of that, being neurodivergent and being pushed out from your own family. Like, what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Well, I think one with the sexual sensitivity also um I've stumbled.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

That's alright.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I lost myself.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Rejection sensitivity. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

It's alright, yeah. We're all ADHD here, are we?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

But yeah, rejection sensitivity obviously it's affected me because everyone that I knew up until around the age of 20 cut me off. Um but a couple of my aunts, because they're not Jehovah's Witnesses, um, they've been in and out of life since. Um but even my parents came back three times. Um so yeah, they bounce in and out. Um but uh the last time I turned around and was like, no, but that's it. I'm not re rebuilding that bridge anymore. That has led to I a lot of trist issues with friends. Anyone really, because they'd known for me for 20 years and done the whole acting parental thing and and then turned their backs on me. But we're not far off. Um I think it's four years, and Lee will have been in my life longer than my parents. So that's a little milestone I'm I'm waiting for to come along.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Yeah, but that's the thing, we we get to choose our family sometimes, and the people that we choose to be in it are often the people who are better than the people who we were born we were born into. Um, so I just well done for not going off that bridge, well done for sticking around, because now you are talking about your journey and ex-Jehovah's Witness stuff on TikTok, growing a name for yourself, helping other people who are stuck in uh religious groups that they don't feel like they can separate from. Um, and that's just that's just so admirable. Like tricky question now. How do you feel about religion now?

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Um, I don't mind religion. Um I I have no problem with anyone being religious and having beliefs. As with everything, it's it's free country, you can have it's it's the moment it crosses the line of not being your belief but you trying to get others to be believers. I understand asking questions um and trying to hint at religion, but actively trying to convert or to push your values onto others who have different values. That's where religion it's it's it's I'm not that about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

No, um I'm I'm very much the same. I mean, I'm I'm not not a religious person. Um I have I have friends who are very religious, like my my best friend is very religious. I would never ever dream of of saying anything to her about her religion, it's important to her. That's the like I've got my stuff that's important to me. So like I wouldn't say I was religious, I am spiritual. Um I you know I do tarot cards and I have loads of crystals, and you know, I definitely think I was a witch in a previous life and still am, but I don't know. But I I also think that anybody who is a witch or was a witch in a previous life is probably also neurodivergent. Um that was that was us trying to trying to be different at the time and just them going, you crazy people. But it's but it is interesting to think about, and I think there are there's lots of you know, one of the reasons why me and religion are not, you know, don't always see eye to eye is I think that it causes a lot of problems. You know, one of the there are really only two reasons why countries fight, it's religion or it's land, that that makes it a scary concept, but it doesn't mean that I'm not happy to listen to people's religions, hear their beliefs. I really want to. I think it's really important that we try and learn as much as we can about how other people see the world, because I think that's that's just that's that's experiencing other people's life. Um but it but it is it is a scary, scary thing, I think, and when you don't know as much about it.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

So I think there are some fascinating religions out there as well, sort of, and ones that aren't what I'd stereotypic call a religion, or that are more theologies and like Scientology and stuff. Well, not that one. It's another cult. More like sort of Buddhism where it's it's treating others respectfully and sort of I love that. Was the that and I think it was Wicca were the two belief systems that I that I've taken a shine to. I I'm not religious and I would never pick one, but they were the only two that I've found along my journey so far that have really sort of oh, I like I like them.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

And it is fascinating to learn about all these different cultures and religions.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, so how so how did you go about rebuilding your life? Because I'm assuming you you had to literally start from scratch with nothing. Like, what was what was that journey like having no money and bouncing from sofa to sofa? Like, how did you start to get yourself on your own on your own feet?

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Well, I started with some money that that eventually ran out very quickly. Um, because at the beginning I was doing everything to numb. Numb. Um, I had no one, um, although I say no one, I had the person I'd been on a date when it had all kicked off eventually and I was made homeless. I was on a date with someone, and they took me in. Um and we had a relationship that I don't think any of us were ready for.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Because of circumstances, and it led to breakdowns. Um but like I I was drinking all the time, I didn't really try and fix stuff, I was trying to find people. Um and and I'd found that the the easiest way to find people, especially in England, you go to the pub. All else fails, you go to the pub, and you'll meet people. Um so I I took that very literally um for a a good while, um about a year or so. Um, and then that eventually led me to being assaulted um on a night out after being spiked. Um, and my parents took me back home. Um then they kicked me out again when they found out that hadn't straightened me out either. Because the only reason it happened was because I was gay. And I was just like so they kicked me again. Um I landed up with a lovely pair of lesbians that I worked with. Um, because that by then I would what I was working on bars.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

And so I landed up living with a lovely couple of lesbians for a bit, um, and then I was in and out of different situations and bits until one fateful time about 14 14 years ago, I think. Um, where I met Lee at a train station on the way to a date with someone else.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Wow! I love that. So it's like sliding doors.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, I'd been invited to a date, and um Lee was there as um their friend.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

So you went with the so you went on a date with somebody and Lee?

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Somebody, and then I went home with their friend Lee.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

And we're now married.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

That is amazing. Um, and like I I love I love the the way that you talk about Lee as well. So, like, you know, he is a rock in your world, and you know, there have been times where you've struggled with mental health and with trauma and not really knowing who you are and what you want to do in the world, and I would very much assume that that's come from years of being forced to be somebody else. Yeah, like and he has been so wonderful in that journey for you, and I just I I just I love it, it's really nice. And the fact that he is a neurodiversity professional as well, he knows and understands your brain as well, which I think does help. Yeah. How old were you when you discovered that you had ADHD in autism?

SPEAKER_01 20:45

16. Wow, so I'd I'd left school, I'd left school, no, maybe 17. I'd left school, and my mum my mum had always been telling the doctor that um she thought I had ADHD, especially when one of my cousins were diagnosed with ADHD. Um and the doctor was like, You're just not punishing him enough. It was it was like the 90s, so like it was just mum was seen as a paranoid mum that didn't punish me enough, and I'm sat there going, I was punished.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Was this was this doctor a Jehovah's Witness, or was this outside?

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Outside. No, he he was just old school. I don't think he liked the idea of ADHD back in the 90s.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Many people did, but I I think it's it's it's interesting that it's not something that was kind of frowned upon in in the Jehovah's Witness community. It was still something that actually existed there as well. So that's really good.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Well, yeah, so when I got to um college, uh they knew something was up and they pushed for my dialogue. Diagnosis. Um, and I left school with nothing qualification-wise, and then I left um college with all merits.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Which is wild. They didn't they the one that couldn't do anything, literally left with nothing, and then flew through you and cut college.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Well, I mean that there is a so I mean it's interesting to to see that they you know they didn't try and kind of get the ADHD out of you um or blame you for being gay on the ADHD, because I've I've heard of that happening with people.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I was told to um just treat being gay like another disability, like I do with my ADHD, and just ignore it.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah, like I mean I love I love seeing people ignoring their ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

It's the it's the same mentality of just trying to pack yourself into the box.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Right. It's just a what? No. No, but but but there there is actually they love masking, yeah, right. There is a very strong link um between people who have got ADHD and people who are queer though. Um, and I think that is mainly because I maybe we're we're more intelligent, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

We're built different.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Um but I think because we're used to feeling not typical, we can we can actually expand into maybe other areas of our lives. So it's not just we're already outside the bus. We're already outside the business. So we can go we can go outside of that realm. You know, I mean I am a straight presenting in a heterosexual marriage, like, but I would still probably describe myself as queer. Um I always have done, you know, there have been dabbles over the years, and I think you know, there's there's always always kind of that part of me which I think if I wasn't married to a man could have been there. Um could and maybe still will at some point. You never know. Um I do think it is extremely common. Um, and I think there's there's also a lot of other things that we that we do differently, and and actually that I think that at some point uh we're gonna realise that there are more neurodivergent people in this world than there are neurotypical. I think neurotypical is the is the abnormal. Because if you think about it, like, and this is just the theory here, and I you know, don't come at me, all of you neurotypical people who don't listen to this podcast have probably got no interest in it whatsoever. Um I just I just think that at some point we will be like, actually, do you know what? Everybody everybody is neurodivergent, but there are so many different types of brain um that neurotypical is something that doesn't exist. Um but we all have our individual things and our individual traits which align more with different things. Um and it's and it's it's an interesting thing to think about. But you know, I think we we have to find that identity and finding your identity, and you know, another thing that we we talk about on on this podcast is visibility and how to show up and how to be brave. I mean, fuck me then, you are being bloody brave with all the shit that you're talking about online. How do you how did you go? Because when we first met, I hope you don't mind me saying this, you were you were quite introverted, quite shy, and actually not in the best of places when I first started coaching you, which you know, and I'm not gonna take credit for all of it, maybe some, but you have just absolutely gone and you have changed into this like confident TikToker and somebody who is like confident enough to go and stand in an election. Like, where did that come from? It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

I I asked myself that question a lot. Um I came I came out of therapy and I had I had a lot to say. Um and I started to slowly talk on the internet, and then obviously I joined forces with you, and we started to see some um improvements on my analytics and things were starting to gain traction.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Um I mean you were going viral quite a lot. It was you know, there was there was virality there in the past.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

There was there was in place, yeah, in places, and sort of I I went from when I started sort of about 300 followers and now I'm about to about to get to 2200, which big achievement sort of sort of celebrated as I get to each each sort of little milestone I make. But yeah, sort of it's it's strange to me that people want to hear what I have to say. Um it's a very niche subject. Um I mean, although there is a lot more ex-Jova's Witnesses now coming forward and talking, which is amazing to see. Because the more people that talk about it, it's not just oh, they're just they're just feeling salty after being we booted them out. That is not what we're on about. Sort of we don't want to get rid of the religion itself, um, but it needs systemic it needs big changes to happen. Yeah, um to protect people and and let them leave if they want to leave without the threat of losing everyone and everything.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Um that's terrifying and scary and just yeah, not not not pleasant. But no, I don't I love it. And and this this activism that you have got that is going forward and the desire to want to make things better in the world is what has led you to running for the Green Party. So let's talk about that because that's really fucking exciting.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Well, yeah, so um I am part of a hidden group of ex-Jehovah's Witnesses as well where we we we communicate with all kinds of people, um, and we arranged to all go down to an APBG um because a few ex-witnesses were already going, and um they they approached me and said, Do you want to come with us? So I uh I against every every bone in my body took myself, this was just before therapy as well, took myself down to London and met these sort of internet friends that I'd I'd made um who have become really good friends now. Um and we went to the APPG for safeguarding in faith communities, where we are trying to put in safeguarding for children um and vulnerable people throughout, and eventually also anyone sort of because we want to help those that want to leave to leave, um which is it's so hard in that religion, um, and so I've been going that going to that now. I think we're coming up to the third year uh of the ATPG, um and due to me spending a lot of time around political people, um I am I have been talking to different politicians, I have been reading all the manifestos, I have I have sunk a lot of time into research, and so I joined the Green Party because that most aligned with me.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

This is again, you know, where when we show up in alignment with our values, we find the right people to hang out with, and then it opens up doors and it opens up the these opportunities. So I have also recently joined the Green Party, and I am now the visibility strategist for my local constituency, and I'm helping them with social media and helping them with like advice and stuff like that, and you know, how to show up, how to record videos, because you know, just because you're a good politician doesn't necessarily always mean you're gonna find a camera. Um, so you know, I've been helping with that, and it's it's really nice to actually be involved with something that's really important. And I think for the first time in in a really long time, like the Green Party's actually got a really, really good chance of making a difference and actually getting in. I mean, I think what was it like last year? I think maybe they got in like two or three areas, like, but this time I think so many people are campaigning.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

The the effect of last September when Zach became leader, yes, I think has been huge because obviously we stand on green issues and environment and but everyone knows that the Green Party is there for the there for that. So I think now that we've got Zach talking about all the other policies and other bits and bobs that are going on, yeah. People are like, oh, so they're not just they're not just going to be putting solar panels everywhere, which we're not. That is not that's not there's a lot of misinformation of what the Green Party want, um, but they're realizing that they also want to help people who want to start a family that want to start a home, um set down roots, and actually have some achievement. We were promised, we were promised we'd go to college and uni and all this, that, and the other, and we'd have a well-paid job. Two parents, two children, like the the standard thing, it was just laid out that was expected from you, and that was what how it was gonna go. And then we a couple of decades later, we're all sat here like, where's our house? And a lot of people are stuck in renting because of costs.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

And it's all about fixing everything.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Um communities that need it the most, like the disabled community. I mean, like, God, if reform or restore get in, or you know, I was saying this to you yesterday. I mean, it's like when when you think that the Tories are the best of a bad bunch, you know, you're you know you're right, don't you? It's so bad. And then you know, we we have so many things that are changing for disabled people. Yeah, we have access to work being stripped, we have benefits, but you know, the benefit system is a lot harder, it's so much harder to even get a pick. You know, I've got people in my world who are so disabled and they're having to jump through all of these hoops to be able to get something that they should be entitled to. Because it's all about equalising and and actually, you know, it's it's the equity, it's not about everybody being treated the same because we can't fucking treat everybody the same. If we treat everybody the same, then we end up with uh disabled people not being on the same platform, yeah. With the LGBTQIA community not being on the same platform, um the black community, anybody who is who is you know an immigrant from or somebody who's coming in because they're fleeing war, they're not being treated as equals, they're being treated as lesser. So we need this equity piece, we need it, and I think that's one of the things that the Green Party is bringing to the table, um, which is why I think so many people are going down that route and thinking, yes, actually, and also having a leader that's not afraid to swear or speak his mind and you know actually call out the bullshit that's yeah, it's so important.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

And it is so refreshing to see when he's asked questions, he will answer them. Like he won't like we're used to politicians where they're like they're they're just sat there and they they then skirt around the answer because they don't want to say the thing, whether it's because it's going to harm their reputation or whatever. Whereas Zach just sits there, he's like, This is it. He just lays it out. Yeah, love me or hate me, this is it.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

And I and I think that that level of honesty, like it. I mean, obviously, I'm not a politician, I would never ever want to be a politician, just to clarify for anything that that might be a good idea, not happening. Actually, I am like, I'm incredibly good for standing up, you know. I'm I'm good at standing up for disabled rights. If there was a dis like, I mean maybe I could be like a disabilities, but I don't want to be the disabilities minister, but I could be. Okay, maybe that's something anyway. I've gone off on the hand. But it's and I lost my train of thought because I got distracted by being by being the disdam it.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

You done me.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah, so so it it's I think it it is about standing up for what you believe in. Um again, it's about like the opportunities and those doors opening for you if you align yourself with your values and the things that you genuinely believe in, and not going, do you know what? I'm gonna actually skew my skew my views or my judgment on this because actually I think that somebody's gonna not like me for it. Um, you know, I have some very polarizing views about stuff, and I just don't care. I'm like, do you know what? That's how I see it, that's that's how it is in my world. I totally allow you and respect your opinion unless you're a racist or a homophobic or a transphobic cunt. Sorry for that sort of bomb drop. Um but it's really important that we do allow people to have other other opinions and to be able to have intelligent discussions about these things. But only if they are willing to listen. And I think that's the thing. But I think it's really exciting. Um, so tell us a bit about your constituency, like how how can people get behind you?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

So we're very rural, um, we're in the middle of Norfolk, um literally, um politically, it's mid-Norfolk, but it's Breckland, so it's fairly central of all most of Norfolk. Um, but they are currently struggling with EHTPs, they're struggling with provisions and communications um between families and schools. Um, and I want to get that sorted. Um obviously with Lee and the charity, um daily nearly I'm hearing bits and bobs that are going on.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

And just give Lee's charity a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Need to be changed.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Give it give Lee's charity a bit of a shout out.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

So yeah, Lee runs ASD Helping Hands, which is the biggest autism charity in East Anglia. I think it's East Anglia, but in in Norfolk at least. Um but yeah, and they are swamped. Um kind of mad. There's a there's a lot of need in Norfolk, and that's one of the main things I'm standing on is is to try and improve things for SEND in the local area. Um but yeah, because schools are a nightmare over here.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Yeah, I think they they are in a lot of places, but but it's a really good thing to be focusing on and helping people with for sure. I think um I also want to talk a little bit about you and your personal brand because this is just like your photography business is growing and it's you're starting to get more clients and like have different things, different things to sell, etc. But the amazing thing about this is because you have been out there, you've spoken about your values, you're now part of the green party, you've got this, these extra things and these extracurricular activities that you're doing that are all actually things that you are really passionate about, it's helping you to grow your personal brand, which is increasing your visibility around your business, and you but just by doing stuff that you love. And I love that.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

I was gonna say, when when I when I was first approached, because they approached me about being a candidate, I I did say that obviously I I go to marches um and I am active in an APVG um and showed them some of my content and it was like this is who I am. I was like, I don't change. I changed before and sort of I've I've now sort of this is but I think that's where I'm authentic because like because I am exactly who I'm saying I am, and I don't plan on promising anything to anyone in that politician way of I'm going to do this and then nothing. Nothing, yeah, nothing, nothing for what they've promised. It it shows up. Um, and that's more frustrating when you voted for someone for something specific. This is my biggest beef with the Tories because back in the day when I did my first vote and it was very unil-informed, I voted Tory because they said they were gonna they were going to ban conversion therapy, and here we are, here we are, and it's still not banned. Um and so that's my biggest gripe, biggest gripe, and another reason why I go to the APPG to try and get that brought up in front of the safeguarding for faith communities, because a lot of a lot of conversion therapy is done in the name of Sun God.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Um so let's talk about that, you know, because we're talking we're talking about safeguarding, let's talk about because there because there are lots of people who listen to this podcast who don't feel safe to be themselves. Let's just talk a little bit around that because you are a gay man who has uh a lot of trauma from past history, ex-Jehovah's Witness, now somebody who is who is part of a political party, which there's a lot of hate for. Like, yes, there's a lot of love, but there is also equally a lot of hate. How do you feel and and how do you make sure that you feel safe showing up online when there are potentially things that people can call you out on or just discriminate against you for?

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Um I I try to make sure that everything I have factually backed up. Um I always bring receipts because I I'm having posted online um against a religion. Um I've had hate for a while. So I've got used to that. Um it's so it I've been preparing without knowing I'm preparing, because this came this kind of came out of sort of surprise when I got asked. Um but so it's as if my body's been trying to prep prepare for it. Um I've been going to Parliament, um, and I think Parliament's more scary than Council. No, it doesn't happen to everyone. Never been to the House of Lords. No, I took lead to that. Slow going in the House of Lords. I think I want to go to the House of Commons next.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yeah, too. It's like I'm definitely more common.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Come on, but I think you have done so so so well, and I think like it is just it's wonderful to see somebody who has been able to unmask so much, step forward into a role that you are so meant to do and be actively challenging the world and all of the bullshit that it is in it at the moment, because that takes a fucking massive amount of bravery. Um, and without sounding too patronizing, well fucking done. Because like more people need to do this, like, stand up for what you believe in, go and talk about the thing. Like, you know, I did I lost loads of followers yesterday because I went and talked about the band that I went to see who are like so fucking politically charged and amazing. Um, Millie Manders and The Shut Up, they're called if anyone wants to go and check them out. Um, but if you are um if you are somebody who hates Donald Trump, hates reform, um, you're neurodivergent, you're queer, you're trans, you're you're somebody who has been oppressed in any way, then you will probably really like them, even if you don't like the music. Really good. But I did it, but I did a video about it, and I just I lost like 150 followers yesterday, and I was like, bye bye, trash.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Um scrape when it takes itself out.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Um you know, me me proudly proud proudly sportsing my uh my my trans rights t-shirt, and I'm just like, do you know what? Like we need we need more people who are prepared to stand up and fight against the patriarchy and the shit that's going on at the moment. Um, and you're doing fucking well. So, Ben, where can people find out more about you?

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Uh on my TikTok mainly. Uh so if you go, it's Ben the XJW with an app, and you'll find me on there and Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Amazing. Um, and what's your website for your business?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

That is www.nimble norfolk.co.uk.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Amazing. And if you are looking for somebody for your wedding who absolutely Understands neurodivergence and knows that posing for photos is the fucking worst thing ever. Get in touch with Ben, he does travel as well. So thank you so much for coming on today. Thanks for having me. Absolute pleasure. And thank you for doing what you do because it is so needed. If anybody has liked this episode, I hope hopefully, like we will put a trigger warning at the beginning of it, just to make sure. But if anybody has um been triggered by this episode and you want to talk in a little bit more detail, please come and hang out in the Maddiverse, which is my free community where I help and support people. All you need to do is go up to my well, any one of my social media um platforms, go and find it. The Maddiverse is a free place and there's lots of resources and help and support in there. Also, as well, follow me on my um my various platforms. Um just yeah, Mad About Money Um official on TikTok, Maddy Talks Money on Instagram. Um, and yes, we will see you all later. If you've enjoyed this episode, give it a like, give it a subscribe, and uh, we will see you for the next one next week. And it is so fucking exciting who we've got. So yeah, stay tuned.