EP110- Rich, Visible & Neurodivergent AF, With Denise Duffield-Thomas

Can ADHD Entrepreneurs REALLY Chill & Prosper?

In this episode of Mad About, Maddy is joined by money mentor, bestselling author and fellow ADHD entrepreneur Denise Duffield-Thomas for a brilliant, honest and hilarious conversation about money, business, ADHD and what happens when big ideas meet dopamine.

They talk about money shame, spending addiction, debt, low-ticket offers, overgiving, boundaries, business models that actually suit your brain, and why ADHD entrepreneurs need systems that protect them from themselves.

Denise shares her journey from entrepreneurial kid selling bracelets, to discovering coaching, building a huge online business, writing bestselling books and learning how ADHD shaped her money story. Maddy also opens up about her own debt journey, business failure, rebuilding after shame, and why visibility and honesty have been such a huge part of her work.

This episode is for anyone who has ever had a brilliant idea, bought the domain name, overcommitted instantly, then wondered what the fuck they’ve done.

In this episode, we talk about:

•  Denise’s journey from bracelet-selling kid to bestselling author 
•  Why ADHD brains are often natural entrepreneurs 
•  Money shame, debt and the emotional side of finances 
•  Maddy’s journey from £40k debt to becoming a money and business voice 
•  Why failure can be one of the most important parts of business 
•  The link between ADHD, dopamine and impulse spending 
•  Why more money doesn’t automatically fix money blocks 
•  Denise accidentally buying 22 antique couches 
•  Low-ticket offers, overgiving and pricing your work properly 
•  Creating business offers that match your actual brain 
•  Why ADHD entrepreneurs need boundaries, automation and systems 
•  The difference between chilling and prospering 
•  How to stop setting yourself up to fail 
•  Why collaboration beats competition 

Best bits:

“Money itself doesn’t cure money blocks.”

“Sometimes we need systems that protect us from ourselves.”

“If it’s a should, it goes in the fuck it bucket.”

“ADHD entrepreneurs need business models that support how their brains actually work.”

Links:

Follow Denise: @DeniseDT
Find Denise: denisedt.com
Follow Maddy: @MaddyTalksMoney on Instagram
TikTok: @MadAboutMoneyOfficial
Book: Mad About Money: Managing Finances and Life with ADHD

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Visit Maddy's ⁠⁠⁠Stan Store⁠⁠⁠

Follow Maddy on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Mad About. I'm Maddie Alexander Grout, and this is the podcast where we talk about all things that we are mad about through a neurodivergent lens. Mad About can basically mean like mad about anything. You can be mad angry, you can be mad pissed off, you can be mad obsessed, you can be mad passionate about all of those things. Mad is a word that we throw around opposite maddy. So you know, we have we have a wonderful guest for you today. A guest that I have wanted to come on this podcast for about three years, ever since I've known about her. Um this lady is incredible, like she has done so many cool things. She has three best is it three best-selling books? Are we are we four? Sure, yeah. Three, no, three.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I'll three, yes. I'll explain why the fourth one's actually the third one. We'll we can talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah, it's confusing, but it's confusing. For us diehard fans, we know. Um, so you have got Lucky Bitch, get rich lucky bitch, which is, I'm not gonna lie, kind of like my car playlist that whenever the kids are love it. Because money mindset for ADHD, as we're gonna come onto this, it's quite difficult. So that that has basically been the soundtrack to my car journeys for the past like three years. Every time I feel like I'm slipping in my business or my money mindset's going down the pan, um, I'm like, right, favourite podcast, favourite audiobook, gotta be done. Um, and I have actually bought the book as well. Um, and then we've got Chill and Prosper as well, which is I think a fucking brilliant word name for a book. Um, so Denise Shaffield Thomas, who has 10,000 people have been through your boot camp. That's right, isn't it? That's just that's more people than have actually bought my book. So congratulations. So far. So far, so far. Like we're we're gonna get it out to the masses. Um, Denise has three children, also has ADHD, and you have two fur babies.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

What kind of fur babies? Four now. I have four fur babies. I need to update that in my bio. I keep on forgetting until someone reads it out, and then I go, so I've got two cavoodles, and then we rescued two cats um uh last year. I know, and they're so it's so lovely because they're we wanted a kitten, and I always wanted a ginger kitten because I had ginger cats and I was obsessed with Garfield as a kid. And then I was like, we may as well get two, like may as well. And then the shelter said, Um, look, would you take the mum as well? Because you know, mums are really hard to re-home. She's had two litters, she was found under a ballet studio, which you know I love, and her name was two too, and then our kids changed the name, but yeah, it's really it's lovely. Um, and it they still don't, you know, they're still very skittish and all that kind of stuff. But yes, I need to update that in my bio now because why not?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Oh, I love that. I've got animals, I've got a cockpoo. Um you say oh, he's an absolute douchebag.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Oh, is he?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Okay, he's just he's still a puppy. We've had him for five months, he is toilet trained now, but he eats everything. Like, in particular, flip-flops are his favourite, and he oh he drive he drives me nuts. And I got him to be like an autism support dog, and I thought, yeah, he's totally gonna regulate me, it's gonna be great. And he is the cause of most of my dysregulation.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Oh no. Well, hopefully he comes down.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah, he's uh he's a bit of a pain, but anyway, anyway, this this this podcast has to not be about my annoying dog. People see enough of that on my social media. Um, so Denise, it's an absolute pleasure to have you with us today. Um, I think you are just somebody who I've looked up to for such a such a long time. It's just it is genuinely a privilege to have you on without me fanning too much.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Thanks, Maddie.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

I I know a lot of your story um because I've I've read your books, but for anybody who's listening who doesn't know you, tell us a bit about you and and your journey. Like what led you to having the this amazing success with the books, a massive, massive success of a business. Like, where did you start?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Um, I was very much an entrepreneurial kid, you know. Um, and I so funny, I'm wearing these bracelets because I was at the park the other day, yeah, so cute, with my kids, and there were these kids who had a stall selling these bracelets, and they were so cute. They had like all these little stands, they'd made these um uh like display things out of peanut butter lids, and you know, they had little bags and stickers, and I was just so thrilled to support them because that was my first business when I was nine was selling bracelets, and I was just always that kid, and yes, it's ADHD for sure, but I was like, oh my god, you could do this and you could do this. And I remember reading the Babysitters Club books, which were so popular in the 90s, oh my god, and I was like Valley High as well, yes, I did for sure, but I was like, I was I think the thing I loved about the Babysitters Club books was the business part of it and the different roles and you know the challenges that they had around their roles, and so I was always just like, oh my god, this is so cool. This is what I want to do. And so we we did a bit of babysitting, like I would always just rope my friends into stuff. I'd be like, now we've got a club that's we're the cool kids' club, and we're gonna um sell things and we're gonna have a garage sale and everyone bring all this stuff to my house. And I was always really good at that part of it, but the follow-through was always a bit tricky. And you know, like six months later, my mum would be like, What's all this crap in our garage? Or I'd be like, hey guys, we're gonna sell horse poo. So everyone come over and we're gonna collect all this horse poo, and then I'd just it would just fizzle out and I'd be like, there's just piles of shit everywhere. Like, what are we gonna do? Um, so I was just hungry for those examples, and I grew up um, like, you know, home in a way, that's kind of the town that I grew up in, like where it was like the beach, the surf club, um small town, right? And so anytime that I found any example of like entrepreneurship or business, whether it was in a movie or you know, someone who would talk about it, like my uncle had a um, he was a car salesman, and he took me once to a meeting with his accountant and just let me sit in on the meeting. We went to Sydney, like, and it was in big high rise, and I was just always hungry for that. I'm like, wow, this is what I want to do. And so um I read a book called The Magic of Believing when I was 14, and it was because I would lose my keys every day and I'd be locked out of my house that I'd have to wait for my mom to come home. So I would go to this secondhand bookstore near my house and I would sit there and just read because I didn't have any money to read and to buy the books, and um, I picked up this book called The Magic of Believing, and it talked about changing your thoughts and being able to use language and goal setting, and I think that was a real spark for me. You know, um, I watched Oprah after school and she opened my mind to all of these different things as well. So I kind of had this feeling from a young age, I want to do something with my life, I want to fulfill my potential. Where I think the seed for money was planted in particular, which didn't germinate for years later, was that I saw um the unfairness and inequality of money for women. Um, my mum was 17 when she had me, my parents were not together. But also, my nan got married really early, had kids, and my aunties had similar situations. And so, me as the oldest grandchild, they all just would always say to me, you know, make your own money, make your own money, never trust a man. Oh my god, that added its own problems later on, like hyper-independence, right? But it was just really drummed into me. We have no power because of money, so you better make your own money. And so that really, then for me, that's I'm so passionate about women having money because I see the fallout of it all the time still, where the power inequality for women and decisions and choices, um, it's because of money often, you know, and I just vowed I would never be in that kind of situation. That doesn't mean then for me it was really easy sailing because I was like I was the first person to go to university um in my family, but all of my ADHD symptoms just made it so hard, you know. Every day I'd I'd turn up for the exam with no calculator, no pen, no pencil. I didn't know where the room was. Um, and I think too, what I've been grateful about is how technology has helped people with ADHD because when I went to uni, there was no class online. You had to go to one spot where they printed out the room for the exams, you know. So all of those things just made it really tricky. And then I didn't really for a job. I was like, what am I? I know I want to do something and be someone, but what does that mean? How does that translate into a job? And so I tried lots of different things. I was a children's entertainer as well, but I was like, but that's not something you can make money out of, so I need to go and be serious. So I did a a business and marketing degree. Um, I actually finished it in the UK because a three-year degree took like five years to do. And so I lived in London for all of my 20s, and I would, I was just in this cycle where I'd be like, okay, I've got this business idea. I'm gonna write books for men about internet dating. And then I'd be like, no, but I have to pay the bills. So okay, I'll go get a job at PricewaterhouseCoopers, and then I'd be like, this sucks. I hate this. What what am I doing? Okay, I'm gonna, and so then I'd quit my job and I'd do film and TV extra work. Or, you know, it was just so just trying to find my niche. What was happening though is that the technology hadn't really caught up. I just I wasn't in the right time, if that makes sense, right? And so when I found out about the world of online business, I was like, well, this is just made for me. This is made for me. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna create my first course, and it was, I didn't know what it was gonna be about, but I was like, okay, well, I'm losing weight for my wedding using raw food, I'll just do a raw food business, you know. Same with the internet dating, I'll just teach people about what I know. And it wasn't, I think, until my late um 20s where I was like, you know what? I really want to be a coach. And I'd known about this world of coaching for a long time. I actually hired a life coach when I was 19, and I was like, this is really what I want to do, but I was just worried that people would judge me and think it's cheesy or wanky or just like this isn't a real industry. And it it kind of I did get it. Some feet people were like, who would hire a life coach, like losers? And I was like, no, I just wanted to be that person that I've always been, which is like, I've read this book. How can I help you? I know this modality, let's use it to change your life. And I think the technology just caught up. Same with what you know we were saying before we hit record. You and I probably got in trouble for talking all the time in school. Why not? Now we've got podcasts, exactly, right? And so it's like we just hadn't, I don't know, have the technology to really do what we were always meant to do. And also, we didn't know this was a job.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

We did not, we did not, and and actually, I had many, many, many jobs before I came to this point. Um exactly, but my I mean my my money stuff, because because I I have taught from the heart about spending addiction for the past 10 years. So spending addiction was it all came from my story where I was in£40,000 of debt by the time I was 21. Um, credit card addiction, spending, undiagnosed ADHD, obviously. Yeah, you know, us we love our impulse spending. Um little treat. Yeah, a little treat, a massive treat, all of the treats. Shower me with treats. Um, so I I had that for a really long time, got myself into really bad trouble, um, ended up with bailiffs knocking on my door and all sorts of things. And uh I went to my mum and I said, Mom, help me. I've got a bailiff who's trying to take away my car. Um, my mum did the best thing that she could ever do for me, and that was basically tell me to sort my shit out. She didn't give me she didn't give me a loan, she didn't pay off my money for me. She basically took me to the Citizens Advice Bureau, like which is like the UK version of crisis care, I guess. Um, and they were like sort your shit out, and I worked out it was gonna take me 60 years to pay off my debts. So I had to become really frugal really quickly, um, because otherwise I wasn't gonna do it. And I worked really hard in a shitty corporate job that I really hated. I was in recruitment for 12 years, um, and it was it was a horrible hard thing to be in, but basically it just kind of it transpired that I was actually really bloody good at selling, so I bet you are. But it was the thing that kind of helped everything along the way. Um, I paid off that 40 grand worth of debt in under five years, felt really chucked at myself, and then I started another business um which went really well into the pandemic. Like the pandemic just fucked all over it, and then I was end I basically ended up in another 60 grand worth of grand worth of debt after I'd cleared the first 40. Um, felt like a complete failure, felt like actually, who wants to learn from a money expert who's got herself into debt twice? Um and then I thought then I had that comparison thing where I was like comparing myself to everybody on the planet, including yourself. Um, I can't do this, like negative, negative, negative. Like, you know, when you get into that shithole and you go right, yeah, you can't pull yourself back out. That was actually when Get Rich Lucky Bitch came into my life, and that was when I developed an incredible relationship with her. I see her as a thing, so um, so it was but it was basically that, and then I I retrained as a business coach, um, and and actually I realized that lots of people wanted to learn from me because I am actually pretty damn fucking good at what I do, but it took me a long time to pull myself out of that failure mindset and the lack mindset, and that's one of the things that I think is is quite difficult for ADHDers to do. Um, so I wanted to ask you what your thoughts are on how much, like how much more difficult do you think it is having ADHD and recovering from things like failure?

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, I think there's a massive shame factor you know for so many of us. And even if we take money out for a second, if you think of all the people that you've let down or businesses that you started, or you know, things like that that you're enthusiastic about and then dropped, um, there's a lot of shame, I think, that stops people from sometimes trying again. Um, and you know, I remember that thing too of when I wanted to first become a coach, and I thought people are gonna go, oh god, Denise, another with another harebrained scheme kind of thing, right? Um, and I think there's something, some compassion for ourselves a little bit to be like, well, I am a seeker and I am someone who is creative. I think too, the other thing of this getting into trouble, like how many times have we gotten into trouble for things? Um, because either, you know, well, people think, oh, well, the rules, you think the rules don't apply to you. And it's because we can see, well, there's different possibilities. Maybe there's an easier way to do it. That's not that fun. And so sometimes because we are either novelty or pleasure seekers, that can upset things. But that is actually how progress gets made sometimes because of our brains.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, you know, I I don't think I'd be where I am now if I hadn't failed all of those times. Like failure is actually one of the most important things when it comes to building a successful business, having a success in anything. Because if you don't have those failures, how can you improve, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Well, exactly. I think though that somewhere there is that shame, but for a lot of us ADHD people, nothing is TMI either. And you know, before we hit record, you're like, is there anything that you don't want to talk about? And I'm like, oh God, if you ask me anything, I would tell you anything. Like, I've got no filter, and that can be good and bad. Like, and so I would be terri a terrible spy because I'd be like, just what do you want to know? Like, let me tell you all the things. You don't even have to torture it out of me. Like, let's just talk about it. So um, I think that can be also such a gift now that so many of us have our own platforms, is that we can help people feel less alone and less ashamed and to really normalize the good and the bad sometimes too, around the ADHD conversation. But I mean, I'm grateful even because I probably still wouldn't be diagnosed without that. I got diagnosed at 42 and I have I had all of the classic symptoms my whole life. And it wasn't until I mean my son was going down the diag, you know, the the path, but it was because of people sharing stuff on TikTok and social media that I was like, oh my god. Yes, and then we share it with each other, right? And we're like, hey, babe. I and then someone will be like, maybe I have it. You go, yeah, baby, totally have it, like just go through the process.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

It it annoys me when people are like, oh yeah, it's so contagious because like you know, you know that you've got it, and then you tell your friend that they've got it, that they've got it. But the thing is though, like attracts like, and yeah, we we operate in circles where we feel understood and we feel validated, and therefore, when we feel that validation and we're like, okay, right, my entire life makes sense now, and then you go and tell your best friend about it, and your best friend's like, I think that might be me as well. And I'm like, Yes, it is, because naturally it's best friends for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Exactly, exactly, and I think that's okay, you know. And when people are kind of like, Oh, everyone's getting diagnosed right now, it's like, no, it's still such a small percentage of the population, and you know, it's it's okay. And I think a lot of people go through this imposter syndrome around it too, of just like, no, no, I just need to try hard enough. And that's such a wounding that a lot of us have of going, no, no, no, no, no, my brain doesn't work that same way. And the thing that I say to people too, because I am medicated and I, you know, some people have got different views on that, that's fine. But if some, yeah, if someone says to me, you know, well, what has it given you? And I'll I'm like, okay, get ready for this. I can do laundry and I can remember to take it out of the washing machine and then I can remember to put it in the dryer, and then I can remember to put it away. And you you'll see people just go, what?

SPEAKER_00 20:11

That's a new one, because mine don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Oh, it's so good. But oh, can I just tell you something really embarrassing? Um, because this uh this only happened two days ago. I took double meds accidentally. Yes, and I because I take uh I take Vivance and Dexamphetamine together because one's short and one's long. Um so I did that in the morning and then I did it again on the way to my ballet class. And I got to ballet and I was like, it kicked in and I just went, oh my god. And it wasn't, I just everything was too overwhelming, like and I I couldn't cope, and I just had to sit down and I was like, shit, I had to get someone to drive me home. And I'm like, there's no thing that's ever gonna make you perfect, you know. And I think though, that even if I didn't get medicated, the validation I got from going, oh my god, all those times in my 20s where I went to my doctor, I think there's something wrong with me. I had, oh well, let's do an MRI. Maybe you've got a brain tumor. Let's do these. Maybe you've got this, maybe you've got that. And it was like the seeking and like, what is wrong with me? Oh, I'm just lazy, I have to try harder. It's so validating. And I, you know, my um, I've got uh quite a few siblings, but one has been diagnosed, the other two haven't, but I think they've been able to understand and see how they can find better coping mechanisms, you know. So one brother is like, Well, I can see how I coped with drugs and alcohol. Okay, you know, I'm not gonna go down the meds route, but okay, I'm gonna um, you know, do all these other things to help me and ice baths and you know, he was like, Oh, that's why I've been on nicotine patches, even though I've never smoked. know uh just knowing knowing these things I think is so powerful and how it translates into business to go okay I am a dopamine seeker right and so when I was saying when you were saying you know you're a good salesperson and I'm like I've seen this happen with ADHD entrepreneurs they go I'm gonna sell oh my god I've got this great idea I'm gonna do an 18 month mastermind and they sell it because people are like oh my god you're amazing I want to do this thing with you they get to month two and they go what the fuck have I done or what have I done oh my god that's that's so I did a a challenge recently for um it was it was it was basically a lead funnel to get people into my membership which is which is something I want your opinion on actually because yes I've got opinions on it don't worry you will oh you will do you will do I am very much I know exactly what you're gonna say I'm a low ticket whore I like I I can't that's fine because and I think I think this actually comes from I I think I've worked out why I am it's because I spent so long in debt and so long struggling that I am an overgiver and I want to help people all the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

So therefore I think actually and also because I've got not just ADHD I've got like a fucking Magna Carta list of like all of the conditions and I always have like really low spoons and I think like sometimes I love my 10 pound a month membership because I can go hey guys I'm not showing up today because I'm absolutely fucked and they go cool fine and there's no expectations and my clients never hate me. And then so I did this I did this this this month long challenge where I was basically showing up every morning and doing like a 10-15 minute training and it was all around like visibility like how to show up on socials and all these kind of things um and we got to like day seven and everyone's like I'm behind I don't like it I'm too overwhelmed and I'm like oh my god I don't like it either I'm really overwhelmed but we're now on day 22 and I'm like fuck my life when is this gonna end? But it's because all of us have got ADHD and we've all got really bored and I'm like okay well you've got to take the learnings on board for this A, I was charging way too like I knew I know I was charging too little for it based on how much time it was going to cost me.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

And also because it was so low ticket people weren't bothered about showing up and I thought you know what I could charge four five times the amount that I did for this do the same thing and have better buy-in from people and actually maybe we would get to like day 22 and everyone would still be hype and still be great but we live and learn right it's it is and that is part of it right is that we're we're triers we're experimenters um what I love to do now and this is a lot of the work that I do when I do my archetypes work is to really understand who you are how your brain works how you're how you're motivated all that kind of stuff and to find a business business vehicle that supports that and so when I was saying about you know some people will overcommit because they're just excited about it in the moment and they're really good at selling it but to be able to say you know what I love to do I love doing quick and dirty instant gratification. We come together we're gonna spend six hours together and I'm gonna jam you packed of everything I know and then goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

And then you can never darken my door again.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Right and right and there's sometimes you have to give yourself permission to be like well this is what I offer it's not going to be for everybody. And you know I I run retreats very occasionally but when I was running my retreats I was like I don't want them to go for really long you know they're they were usually like three days kind of two and a half three days because I was like at day three that's when people start to be like they go into a bit of a breakdown or break and I'm like I I can't hold that for people. So I'm like it's gonna come together we're gonna give you a little light sprinkle of whatever you need be in the moment but I am not your girl if you need to work with me for 18 months. Like we might never see each other again. That's fine. That's and being honest about what you offer and that sometimes people just need and you go wham bam thank you ma'am I I knew I used to know someone who she could write a book in a weekend and all she did was she would launch really quick courses that would be like I'll never run this again literally never because it'll be off my radar um and you've got to decide pretty much today we're doing it this this weekend that's it'll be done and some people if they've got a different personality because there are people who do like to do things very much thoughtfully and slowly and that there is a market for that too. But they would be shocked by that right but but if you're in that mindset it's just like I as a consumer I am like that too right so um there'll be someone there was this great lady Claire um who did this this golden golden nugget service where she would be like okay I will um if you've got a podcast or if you've got client calls you send them to me and I will find captions or find the golden nuggets in that service and you can sign up and you get 10 a month. And I said to her can I get like a thousand and she was like what do you mean and I said well I batch my stuff so intensely right that I don't want to do 10 a month. I just want I just want to give you everything that I've ever done and for you just to give me all the stuff and so then I can just batch it out for the and schedule it for the next year. And she was like oh I've never thought about that because my clients usually you know they want it pieced out and so she just kind of cobbled together a service for me based on that because I'm like I want it quick I want it fast because I will lose interest and I'm a terrible client if we have to do things because by month two or three I'm like do I have to send that to you now I'm I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

So I'm in a mastermind at the moment and lovely lady um and I I am very much a pathological demand avoidance type of person. Yeah if you ask me to be accountable for something I'm like they're telling me what to do. Fuck you I'm not gonna do that shit. Yes. Even though I know that that has actually you know she's got my best interest at heart and it's yeah it's something that I kind of should be doing. But also if it's a should should goes in the fuck it bucket we don't should ever. Absolutely um so it's just like I'm not shoulding all over myself so therefore I am making a boundary I don't want to do the accountability and then I'm like for fuck's sake everyone else has done it and now I feel like I'm a loser because I haven't done it.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

And I think that's the problem sometimes right is that we want to put ourselves in situations where we can thrive where um our personalities can shine and it reminds me one of the masterminds I joined one time where everyone else had a very thoughtful measured personality and they wanted to go quite slow. I felt like such an asshole all the time because I was just like well let's do a quick and oh my God and then someone would talk about an idea and I'd go I just bought the domain name for you let's do it and then they'd just be like what you know I felt like I was just trampling over people all the time and it just wasn't the right fit for me. And you know a lot of us have experienced that in jobs for sure but we can experience that sometimes with our clients where it's like I'm not for you and that's okay as well or maybe you you know I'm for you in one format you can buy my book but actually I'm not good to work with one-on-one with you and that's okay too. So there's a lot of work around that that I think we all have to do and I mean that's why I love doing money archetype work where you can kind of go okay I am an accumulator I need this thing or oh I am an alchemist so I am going to buy another domain name because I need that little instant gratification and finding ways that we're not being harmful to ourselves and others in that um in that situation and that just takes knowledge really compassion yeah and and this is one of the things that I am very very very keen on when when I'm talking with ADHD business owners is finding passion finding like your purpose and aligning yourself with your values so that you can show up authentically like to me it's so important like people know like my social media audience know me inside out there's probably not a huge amount that people don't know about me because I am so open.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

I'm like ah like I'm having a shitty day I'm gonna go onto TikTok and I'm gonna talk about it like oh my dad's died fuck like you know like I am I am just like all I'm just an open book all the time. And people are like how do you deal with that? And I'm like because it's just me. Like I if anybody doesn't like me for it they're not my people because yeah the only thing the thing that I know is I'm being a hundred percent authentic the whole time and if people don't like me for it fuck them. Like it is it's genuinely kind of easier to show up for yourself when when you're in that in that place. But I think when you have ADHD that that can be quite difficult and there can be those mind monkeys that come in and it's not always necessarily imposter syndrome it could be like just fear of being yourself because we've been judged for our whole lives and and actually quite difficult.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

How did so when you when you first discovered that you had ADHD were you quite like hey I've got ADHD now or was it kind of like a gradual thing where like actually at the beginning maybe you didn't want to talk about it as much no I was so excited I was like give give me the t-shirt like oh my god I'm so excited um no I loved it um no yeah did you find that it made your money story make more sense oh absolutely and you know very similar to you I got on in a lot of debt in my 20s too because of not knowing how to regulate and of course you know I was never taught about money at all but I think it was that instant gratification dopamine stuff and I think this is important for people to understand too this is where the money conversation starts to come in is that money itself doesn't cure money blocks. Money can can absolutely you know if you don't understand who you are and what your patterns are you can see that money could make some of those ADHD things worse because it's bigger you know it's bolder and I this is this happened to me just before I was diagnosed right so I was um I bought a farm this is totally an ADHD thing too right is because I was making more money and so it started to become bigger things. I was like this would be amazing and I can see a version of myself that would you know love this farm and it was so much fun. But um I was in a thrift store and I found this couch um and it was like I can't remember they call them it's like you know the kind of ornate scrolled backs and the things they call it like a queen yes exactly right and I saw this couch in the thrift store and I was like this would be amazing like we can recover it right and then um so I was like I'm gonna buy this and then I went into another thrift store and there was another one and I was like oh is this a thing this style right and they were like oh yes it's called a queen it's like queen not queen annex something like that right and I was like oh my god this is a thing so Facebook Marketplace heard me because our phones uh hear us now and then they enable us so then they were like did you know that that like there's this other couch okay so here's what I did and you'll understand this I hired a truck I only got my driver's license when I was in my early 30s by the way right so I hired a moving truck yeah because I lived in London I didn't need one um oh sorry I did get my driver's license early but I never drove a car in or had a car until I was like I kind of wish I had a car in London today because there is a tube strike and I got a taxi I got a taxi from one end of London to the other end of London and bearing in mind I take taxis all the time anyway because as an autistic person the tubes just freak me out.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

And what would normally have been a 25 pound taxi ride do you want to guess how much it cost me today? Oh I hate to even think 68 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Oh I was cross like yes I bet but that's but that's a really big example of oh wait it gets worse like it gets worse right so um I hired a truck yeah a moving truck and I got on marketplace and I found 22 of these couches 22 I was driving into these little places I was hauling them into the truck myself I had to hire a storage unit for these for these things right because when I was and this whole thing about the farm which is just about to sell thank God because I can see this is pre-diagnosis where I was like oh I can have things I can rescue things I've got money to do all of these crazy ideas I've always had and I found all these enablers and people who would be like I can do that for you. I didn't even have to I didn't have to renovate those those couches myself. I had someone who painted them had someone who upholstered them and I was like look I'm I'm supporting all these other makers and entrepreneurs and and it it literally came from me I wanted a little holiday house for my family and then I was like but this could be a wedding venue. Oh my God this could be a conference venue. But when people come from other conferences I don't want them to sit on boring chairs. I want them to sit on upholstered antique chairs that have been upholstered by this local lady and have honey from my bees right and so I found someone who will bring all the hives and do all the things because I'm I signed up for a bee making course and then it rained on the day and I was like I don't want to go I don't want to go so you know those those are the things where I was like oh I've without money a lot of these things would have fizzled out yeah with money it just got bigger and bigger and then I was like oh I need another storage shed for my chairs. I need this thing. And so that was all pre-diagnosis. And so then a lot of people who followed me were like oh my God I'm so inspired by your farm. But it turned into then well now I have to run retreats here to pay for the farm. So now I guess I'm running a retreat business. Well you know what we need to do Airbnb because we don't live there all the time. So I guess I'm running an Airbnb business now. And I think when I was uh finally you know when I was diagnosed and I started taking meds and I realized I was like oh a lot of these things were dopamine type things that would have been harmless or actually probably not because like you credit card debt same same numbers are different but it's the same feeling but now I've got money and a team to enable me to do all of this stuff and so I know it sounds like lucky bitch problems but I was like oh I don't want to do that anymore. And so then when I said to people you know well I'm selling my farm there were a lot of people who were really upset by it because they were like but we bought into this like I want to come to your farm and I was like I'm sure you do like it's a great place but it's not for me anymore and that's okay too and I had a I had the same shame that I had as a kid of going wow I just got all these people invested into this yard sale we're having and I don't want to do it anymore. So I think what now I understand too is like you can let some urges pass and it's okay to not have everything be for you and it's I think that's a really tricky thing to deal with but and the reason I'm saying that not to be like oh I'm so rich I can just it's like the compassion for yourself too is that that is going to be you forever and the money itself is not going to make you suddenly more responsible. You have to you have to watch that and you have to ask what actually do you want and so what actually I really wanted I wanted a creative life and so now I'm not working to pay for my farm because I actually you know shit I've got all these things I have to deal with now. I'm going to ballet all the time that's my thing that I'm mad about you know I and I love it I know I know um but it's like I love being able to pour my creativity into that and I still overdo it sometimes because my dance teacher will go I think we're gonna do a dance about this and I go I know what the costume's gonna be I'm gonna go thrift it and I'm gonna spend the next five hours looking for things that are this particular colour I see that in myself and I have to temper it and I go what what do I really want here and it's okay for me to be creative but what's the line where does it tip over into addiction into unhealthy behaviours and it's I think that's a really tricky thing for us to know because it's hard for us to regulate that ourselves it it really is.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I think like I I also know that when when I'm dysregulated I my spending addiction comes back in and I I slipped a disc in my back about six weeks ago and I was basically just I couldn't move so I couldn't walk I had to when I did walk I had to walk with a stick and it was it was just horrendous and I was like we we we spend money sometimes to try and fix our problems right so like so I bought myself a really expensive walking stick. It had to be a rainbow zebra one because I was like I couldn't just be a boring you know Amazon one. Of course I spent shit loads of money on like chiropractors and like a massage gun because obviously I definitely needed one of those and then as soon as I started to feel vaguely better I went and joined the most expensive gym possible. And the reason I did that was because I know that if I join an expensive gym I'm gonna actually fucking go because like otherwise I'm just like cheap gym whatever like I there's no commitment there. And I think it's a really interesting lesson isn't it because actually you know running a low ticket membership and people like not always showing up for themselves it's like well actually I know that because I've paid a lot more money for something I have to show up for it. And that's it it is an interesting thing but that that should you can feel it slipping because I need to pay to to fix this problem and I think ADHD is often have that kind of that impulsive I want it all fixed now. I need it all to to to be right and to be on the right track like so there are I mean I've still got so many questions for you.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

I know I'm just I'm going oh we've got like five minutes left we have to focus what's the what's the what is the question that you want to know because we'll have to I'll have to come back another time on for part two I mean I think one really important question is like what is more challenging for ADHD is is it chilling or prospering oh that's a great question I have to um do things in spite of myself sometimes so what I love talking to people about too is like how can we automate things how can we set things up so we don't get ourselves into trouble you know so a really good example of this is that sometimes I overgive overcommit and so I was getting to a point where I'm like I love batching interviews but five in one day is too many. And I I I hate hated to even admit that. Two two right but really interesting thing that happened around that is that I'd go I think five is starting to be too many and so one person would always cancel in a day just randomly and so but what I had to do is take that next step go to my Calendly account and set it up that it can only be a certain amount of people that can book in and so that's an example of going I'm not gonna change my behavior because I will say yes. Same with like the reason why I can't be the first person in my inbox because I will say yes to everything. Because if someone gets me on a good day sounds like a great idea no problem. So that's another example of going I'm not gonna change my behavior so what can I put into place? I don't know the password to like I'll have to go look it up to get into our customer service system. So it's just a little barrier right that I've I'll have to look it up. I um someone else is going to be in my inbox first to filter out things and we've got things in place. If someone says do you want to be on a summit I have a black and white I don't go on summits. I don't have to use spoons thinking about it. So sometimes it's like making a rule having a bad cop in your business um having automation so then I'm not choosing every time oh am I going to do four podcasts or five podcasts go to my Calendly it will tell you the slots right and you know someone was like I can't get until June and part of me was like I'll find a spot for them and it's like okay that's fine you know to just to be okay in that moment of going Cool. You know, and so I think it's that next step sometimes of going. I I know myself I'll always overdo it, I'll always overcommit. So I have to like put that chill in place with very orchestrated things. That makes sense. And same sometimes with the income stuff, right? The prospering stuff. I never remembered to pay my credit card bill. I had to set up an automatic thing. I had to set up an automatic savings account because I never thought savings, whatever, who cares? I'll just make more money. Um, I have to, you know, automate a lot of those things in my business. I have to have a bookkeeper because otherwise I would never do my taxes. Right? I just never would. I'm not gonna get better at that. And so I think again, there's that acceptance, but finding ways to not set yourself up for failure is a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Um, and I've got one more question for you. And this one is a really personal one. Um, so um, my second book is gonna be coming out later on this year. It's called Mad About Business. It is the uh the second book after Mad About Money. I would absolutely be so fucking honoured if you would get involved with it and help me by writing my foreword. Do you think that would be something you might be considering?

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Yes. Well, you did ask me beforehand, I said yes. But no, this is a good lesson for me too, right? Is because I I get asked all the time, right? And so it's all the time. And as I said to you, it's often ADHD people who are like, and I need it by tomorrow because my publisher needs it. And I and I said that to you, but also it is it is tricky for me to say no to things like that, you know, and it's like, cool, send it over, and you know, but don't everyone listening ask me.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Don't everyone no, don't because also I can't do it for 500 people special and only do mine because like because that that other one I don't I don't want to share you with anybody else, really.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

That's the secret, right? I've got terrible boundaries uh around stuff, and so that's why I have some it's a whole it's a whole other podcast episode boundaries, it really is. One thing around this too is speaking geeks. So my husband Mark, he you know, negotiates all of that, and I'll get somewhere and they go, Oh, Mark said that you um won't be coming, you know, to our gala dinner, or you won't be and I'm like, oh, ignore what Mark says. I'm here now and I have no boundaries. Like, what do you need? Like, let me help you put chairs out. Like, oh, what do you need? I'll come to everything. And yeah, so I have to put those.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Like, just yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Oh, what do you need? It's totally fine. Um, so yeah, that I think that's such been my big lesson around ADHD stuff is that you know, left to my own devices, I will fuck some shit up sometimes. So I have to just be compassionate with myself, not set myself up for failure. Um, you know, do as much as I can without me involved, as in automating, delegating systems, rules, batching, all that kind of stuff really help. And that's I talk about that in my book, Chill and Prosper, if people are curious about that, about how it works.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

I was gonna say, what are you promoting at the moment? Like, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Oh, yes, DeniseDT.com. But I'd say follow me on Insta, um, Denise DT on Insta, just to see, you know, if you like me, all that kind of stuff. You can read one of my books, um, and yeah, just get into get into my world.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

They will. You're like, well now, I I I would like to say I'm the I'm the English version of you, but I don't I don't think you'd want to be the Australian version of me, but it may be, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Yeah, well, there's room for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

There is, isn't there? And this this is the thing, and that was another thing I wanted to talk about, is like the collaboration over competition thing. It's like we I mean, obviously, you're like 10 years down the line from where I am, and we do do different things, but that's similar things. So I really appreciate you coming on today.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Oh, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

So lovely to have you, and so fun.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

And I love talking to someone else with a hyphenated surname. I mentioned mentioned was gonna mention that at the front. So fun.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

It just makes us sound more posh, doesn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_01 48:22

It totally does.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Thank you so much for coming on, my love. Um and yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure. Um, everybody go and follow Denise. Like, she has been an absolute legend. Um, she will still continue to be as well. Um, if you like this episode, um hit subscribe. Um, you can follow me as well, Maddy Talks Money on Instagram, Mad About Money Official on TikTok. Buy my book as well, Mad About Money, Managing Finances and Life with ADHD, and uh the new one, which is coming out later this this year.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Mad About Business. Love it!

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Great title. Yeah, the audiobook for Mad About Money as well is coming out in the next three weeks. Very exciting. Um Tonisa's gonna go, and I've gotta go to bed because it's like a it's like midnight here now.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

So uh I'm gonna go do another podcast. Thanks, Maddie. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Thank you, everybody. We'll see you next time.