Cruise Ship Size Matters

In this inaugural episode of Small Ship Cruise Talk, we explore the world of small ship cruising, discussing:

• What qualifies as a small ship, and how many passengers can you expect
• An overview of the advantages of smaller vessels
• The unique experiences small ship cruises offer

We delve into the community aspect of small ship cruising, the cost considerations, and how these cruises compare to larger ships. 

Our discussion of some popular small ship cruise lines will excite your future vacation planning - some of which you may have heard of, and others you likely have not, but are certainly worth knowing about! 

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Small Ship Cruise Talk
• 2:58 Defining Small Ships
• 6:17 Why Size Matters in Cruising
• 10:46 Price & Value Considerations for Small Ship Cruising
• 12:50 The Community Experience on Small Ships
• 14:52 Comparing Big Ships to Small Ships
• 17:50 Popular Names You Might Know in Small Ship Cruising
• 19:39 United States Small Ship Cruise Advantages
• 20:20 More to Look Forward to with Small Ship Cruise Talk!
• 21:36 Additional Cruise Lines to Know in Small Ship Cruising

Transcript

Dan (00:03.032)
Welcome to the first episode of Small Ship Cruise Talk.

Mikkel Woodruff (00:06.888)
I'm so excited. This is awesome. I have been looking forward to this for a really long time. Dan and I have talked about this for years and now is the most appropriate best time everything happens when the stars align for a reason. I am Mikkel.

Dan (00:30.904)
And I'm Dan.

Mikkel Woodruff (00:32.284)
And we are your co-hosts not only of Small Ship Cruise Talk, but also of the small ship cruise website that we co-founded and co-create content for called Sometimes Sailing.com. We created this podcast out of a passion for small ship cruising and aim to help you understand this incredible travel option.

and this awesome way to see the world and we hope to spread the options of small ship cruising and open your eyes to not just river cruising or yacht cruising but barge cruising and expedition cruising and even some special experiences on bigger ships. We are kicking it off with today's podcast episode one: Small Ship Cruise Size Matters and talking about

why size impacts your cruise experience. Dan, what do we have in the upcoming episodes for a little overview for our listeners?

Dan (01:37.582)
Yeah, so Coming up in episode two and three... So episode two, we're gonna specifically focus on the three different flavors of small ships. So we've got river, yacht, barge cruising, and then we're gonna dive into, also talk about those price points for those particular sizes and the crew to guest ratio on each. And then in episode three, we're gonna talk about ocean versus river cruising. So ocean.

Ocean and river cruising are Completely different animals and there's not a lot of similarities. Maybe they're both cruises. That's about it. But for the most part, they're completely different. And As we go through this and as you're listening to the podcast, make sure you hit that subscribe button wherever you are so you don't miss an episode, because this is just the tip of the iceberg. Really, we're going to be coming out with a bunch more episodes and really diving deep into small ship cruising.

Mikkel Woodruff (02:34.728)
I love a pun. Give me all the nautical puns diving deep. I love it. Well, with that, anchors away if I dare say. I hope there are some corny joke appreciators out there listening, but I'm gonna go with: there are! And you're in good company, because I love them too. So let's talk about what qualifies as a quote-unquote "small ship" and establish what that means. So

It's open to interpretation in terms of the thousands of people. There's no doubt that anything 300 people or below is quantified as a small ship, right? But we're gonna define it as 1,000 people or less. So there aren't as many 1,000 passenger ships that are kind of the threshold for ocean vessels in terms of the mega ships that people think of.

Dan (03:17.922)
Yeah.

Mikkel Woodruff (03:33.576)
like Royal Caribbean's Icon of the Seas that has way more than 6,000 passengers at capacity or Norwegian Cruise Line's Encore with close to 4,000 guests which is similar to Disney's ships Treasure and Wish but 1,000 becomes kind of small compared to that and the ship size generally corresponds to guest count which equates to a physical size difference so a physically smaller

vessel. And, as an example, we've been on Celestyal Cruises which is between 800 to 1000 passengers and then you make a jump when you go on something like Windstar Star Pride that we've been on that is a sizable vessel with plenty to do and multi-decked but it is around the 300 passenger mark and then going

even smaller down the small ship cruise funnel into something like 196 guests at capacity on the AmaMagna with AmaWaterways river cruising we were just on and the smallest Dan and I have ever sailed on was on a barge cruise ship called Anjodi on the Canal du Midi in France. We were two of five passengers and we will get into that in the future but for now that's an overview.

And the size ranges as well.

Dan (05:07.054)
So Size ranges for different small ship categories. Let's talk about river cruise ships. So they're typically 125 or between 125 and 200 passengers on average. if.

Dan (05:26.382)
They and then Moving up a little bit, we're going to go to small ocean ships. They're between 100 and 1,000 passengers. Then there's expedition size vessels. That's between 50 and 250 passengers. Barge cruises, as Mikkel talked about, is between four and 12 passengers. You will see some larger outlier, some out some larger ships out there with that. And then yacht cruises can be.

two passengers to 100 passengers.

Mikkel Woodruff (05:57.992)
That's true, and if we're Jeff Bezos on his yacht, that would be amazing. I think for this purpose. We'll focus on the yacht cruises that the typical guests can book in the future, but we did want people to be aware that obviously there's something like a yacht cruise for two people. I recall, what is that Goldie Hawn movie with Kurt Russell? Overboard! That was an amazing movie. Overboard, you know, they're just a family of...

two cruising on there before her ill-fated fall overboard, which we won't get into here. But, you know, that's to say... Yacht cruises: two to 100 passengers. But we will focus on the ones that are more so 100 passengers that you can book, kind of like you're booking a river cruise. And you just sign up and go. And you do not have to charter the whole ship or own your own ship. or own your own ship. So why does ship Matt

So why does ship size matter? And not to get too punny again, but we're going to say that small sizes are better when it comes to ship sizes.

Mikkel Woodruff (07:15.546)
Not to get too punny again, but ship size does matter. And we're going to say smaller is better in this instance because you get things like better port access and personalization. There is a better crew to passenger race ratio. There is a better crew to passenger ratio and service differences when you are one of a hundred passengers versus

one of 6,000 passengers. Additionally, the onboard atmosphere is intimate on a small ship versus bustling on a big ship and the activities are a little different as well. And here's where small ships are maybe not for somebody who needs a ton of onboard experiences. So you have less experiences on small ships versus the huge variety on a big ship.

But small ships are great because a lot of the time you're not on the ship when it's in port because you are so close to the port it often stops right in the heart of a city so you're easily able to make the destination your entertainment whether it's with an organized tour through the cruise line or on your own. And one of my favorite topics of course is eating and dining on any ship.

Dan (08:38.926)
I think that's most people's favorite part of a cruise. Right? So the thing you're going to get with a smaller ship is you're going to get more quality versus quantity or quantity of options, I should say, for when you get on ocean or something larger, you're going to have plenty of places to eat. But the attention to detail is going to be much,

Mikkel Woodruff (08:44.85)
Thanks for making me feel less alone on that.

Dan (09:07.19)
much more precise on a smaller ship. Then stability, for me, that's a big thing because I get motion sick on the big ships, but on the small ships I don't. Not as much, let's put it that way. So stability is how rough the water is going to be and how much you're going to feel it on the ship. Especially on river, you're probably not going to feel much movement at all, but you'll definitely feel it on some larger bodies of water or open

of water. And another big thing about the smaller ships is that social experience. You really kind of build a community over those couple of days that you're cruising and you're seeing the same people over and over and having dinner and lunch and breakfast and everything with the same group of people. So you quickly build that community on board.

Mikkel Woodruff (10:01.252)
That's really nice especially because we've made some good lasting friendships. And, in a nice way even if you're a little anti-social like we are sometimes, you're forced to make those connections and talk to people on small ships, which which has been good for us right like we've visited friends in Florida and Seattle that we've formed friendships and relationships with from small ship experiences

Dan (10:19.15)
Yeah.

Dan (10:26.274)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing, that small ship advantage that we find is more, it's more destination focused. You really start to feel like you're not only a community on board, but you're part of the communities that you visit. So like the example comes to mind, it's just how immersive our Uncruise

cruise was in Hawaii and how we were really just part of, felt like we were part of the communities that we were visiting. And that the crew on board also really helps with that. I find on smaller ships, we get to know them kind of quickly and they definitely know us by name, but we get to know them by name and their background. And then...

Mikkel Woodruff (10:53.0)
Yeah.

Mikkel Woodruff (11:16.936)
If I might say a note on that, As an example of getting to know them, I mean, it's not just like somebody, a captain walks around the ship and says hi and pauses for photo opportunities. I recall on Uncruise when we were in the humpback whale harbor, the protected sanctuary in Hawaii, that, you know, we were in a safe harbor and Dan took the wheel.

And we were in the bridge - they have an open bridge policy of course when it's safe and they're not docking or anything and guests can be in there. But to your point about the intimacy and getting to know the crew not just other passengers these small ship experiences are as such that you can meet the captain and have multiple conversations with her, which was the case with Captain Tiffany on Safari Explorer a small ship with 36 passengers

Dan (11:45.453)
hehe

Mikkel Woodruff (12:13.99)
I love that about small ship cruising. And we had the same nice relationship with Captain Laurent in France on the Anjodi barge cruise for example. So I love that you highlighted that. That's a really great point about being able to have a more intimate experience on these smaller ships. Just another reason we love that.

Dan (12:35.918)
I mean, ultimately at the end of it, they're just less crowded and you're going to have more access to the crew, to the captain, things like that. But you also start to get that, it's really a community feel.

Mikkel Woodruff (12:50.408)
Community. Yeah, for sure. And Also, we know what you're thinking. Maybe, alright fine, but what does this cost us? The truth is, there is a higher price point to these experiences, but it's not really comparing apples to apples. While small ships do cost more money, and the price per day might be higher than your whole cruise, let's say a...

three day cruise costs $1,000 but on some of these expedition experiences, especially to the place like Antarctica, you're going to pay that per day. But you're not comparing apples to apples because, Let's take the Antarctica example, a lot of big ships that go to Antarctica, you're not allowed to get off the ship. So you can see it, but you can't get off. What do you think about that, Dan?

Dan (13:38.67)
That's Part of cruising is being able to visit the ports. And well, for me at least, I mean, I know there are some, yeah, I know some people it's really just being on the water and experiencing that. But for me, it's that interaction with the places that we're visiting and the ship and how the how the two meet.

Mikkel Woodruff (13:48.956)
You mean, like, making landfall.

Mikkel Woodruff (14:05.276)
Yeah, and in terms of, like you said, like interacting with the land, and that means the landscape and hearing nature and seeing bears catch salmon in Alaska, or for a lot of people, penguins in Antarctica. And also, with that, the people, interacting with the people. So if you don't get off the ship, you never interact with the people that are stationed in Alaska. I mean, you will in Alaska, but Antarctica and like the guides and everything.

It's a whole different animal because you know we'll get to that in a future episode. But let's get back to the price point. I digress. I do this a lot. Tangents, right? So Let's get back to the price point. whereas the price point is a lot higher on these small ships, you also have a lot more included. So The Antarctica example is extreme. It could cost $10,000 to go to Antarctica and the experience is completely different than if you went on a bigger ship for half the price.

But on top of that, let's say you're going on a river cruise ship that for a week is about $5,000 per person. Well, you get so much more with that price tag than you do on a big ocean ship. So small ships are great value for the money if you ask us. Of course, we're biased because we love them, but we're here to spread the gospel about small ship cruising because we're so passionate about it. So that's to say that things are included like

all your excursions on most river cruise lines, for example. All your excursions on expedition ships or yacht cruise ships that we've been on or barge cruises. So you're not gonna be nickeled and dimed. You're not gonna feel like you paid a lot of money and then you owe more money for something. Alcohol is included if you like a cocktail or a glass of wine with lunch and dinner.

And you know, I'm thinking about what you said with the crew to passenger ratio and it's less crowded. And all of this I hope is painting a bigger picture of why small ship cruising is an incredible option. Along with the price point you have maybe fewer dining options because the ship is physically smaller as well as fewer entertainment options. But a lot of the ships bring entertainment on board a couple of nights of your

Mikkel Woodruff (16:27.812)
expedition or your journey or your sailing and some ships even have more than one dining venue so you get a little bit of a change of scenery. So things to look out for when you are considering a small ship if those things are important to you are an increase in those options. And then another thing is stability in rough seas; Dan talked about how he gets a little bit of motion sickness...

A good example is an expedition ship on the ocean if there's rough seas. So we do want to point out that if you are considering a small ship cruise, you're going to want to make sure that they have stabilizers! which, you know, It's all great and smooth sailing if there are stabilizers. But as soon as there are not stabilizers, it becomes abundantly apparent that the ship is missing them. So you do want to make sure

that if you're on a ship that's small, including a yacht cruise ship that's going on the ocean, they are equipped with the latest and greatest technology in vessels on the ocean. It's not really a consideration for river cruising because there's really no waves. The only river we've been on with a current is the Garonne in France when we went from Bordeaux, but you barely noticed that. So

What do we always say about river cruising, which we've convinced a bunch of people that aren't that, or conversely, I should say, are prone to motion sickness, that river cruising is the way to go. We always joke about it.

Dan (18:09.058)
That if you need to, you can walk to shore.

Mikkel Woodruff (18:12.196)
True and because the river is often not even you know more than six to ten feet deep So that's something to consider as well. And I wanted to touch on a good experience that we are able to compare a big ship to a small ship such as in Alaska

And a lot of people are familiar with Alaska and the cruising possibilities there who are listening. And it's such a different experience going on a smaller ship. We went on a big ship and it was great and we completely respect and appreciate that there are so many options in Alaska. But when you go on a big ship, you don't feel as close to the glaciers. That's a big reason why a lot of people go. You feel like you're one of

tens of thousands that might make landfall, so to speak, in that port that day. And a great example is Ketchikan. where they literally have the ships posted on the board.

Mikkel Woodruff (19:23.196)
When we were there, one of our favorite things to do was go look at the board of the passengers coming. Because we were staying overnight after our Alaskan Dream Cruises experience that disembarked in Ketchikan, and we were spending a few days there, staying overnight at a wonderful hotel that was walking distance to the ports. And I remember going every day to look at the board at the guard shack, so to speak, that had

the big ships that were coming in and what did we see? It was like, you know, today's grand total 7,000 people or 20,000. Do you remember?

Dan (19:57.967)
Right, yeah. It was, It varied, but there was a couple days, it was like 15,000 people. So just the population of Ketchikan increased by 15,000 people.

Mikkel Woodruff (20:12.8)
And it's wild. It's like this small town that generally you rarely even see people walking on the street past 5 p.m. and the restaurants close at 8 or 9, you know, right? So it's like such a difference. And it really depends on your preference, what you're looking for, what your budget is, the kind of experience you want to have, who you're cruising with and considering their likes and dislikes. But when we went

Dan (20:24.003)
Right.

Mikkel Woodruff (20:39.74)
with Alaskan Dream Cruises to Alaska as opposed to the big ship we went on - and we went on Celebrity Edge which was also phenomenal - it's just a stark contrast. And small ship cruising really provides a phenomenal bang for your buck and you pay more but you get more and you feel more special.

Dan (21:01.39)
that You kind of bring up an interesting point in that we were on a small ship, but we went to a port that big ships went to. we were, Maybe there was only 25 of us getting off the ship, but there was still 10,000 other people getting off the ship at the same time. So that happens, but then it also happens where the smaller ships can just go places that the big ships, it's just not possible to go.

Mikkel Woodruff (21:31.474)
I love that point. Yeah. Say more about that. That's so true. We've been in other places and have seen that too, like Iceland.

Dan (21:38.712)
Well, even last week when we were in Europe, so we were in Budapest and we were parked too wide on the river cruise. So there was at least, I think at least three or four river cruise ships there that were unloading. So you're still getting the crowds, but it's slightly less. Maybe it's a third of what one big ship would be. But the trade-offs though...

You're going to there is a possibility that you're going to run into those ports like that. You're just going to be over overrun with cruisers.

Mikkel Woodruff (22:19.548)
in the small ports.

Dan (22:22.242)
I don't know where I'm going with this. couldn't tie it back together. Yeah, cause as I was saying that it didn't, it didn't make sense cause there wouldn't be two. I think there's only a small example of where big ships would be mingling with small ships.

Mikkel Woodruff (22:25.68)
Okay, I wanna understand.

Mikkel Woodruff (22:45.596)
Yeah, and we're gonna do ocean versus like smaller ships to like ocean versus river, but that's a good point for like the future Okay getting back to it So I think For brand recognition, right because that's so much in this industry or any industry people know brands like Nike or Lululemon or Dove, you know? let's talk about Let's throw out some names people would know. let's go every other that'll be fun. I'll start wins. Okay

Dan (23:14.155)
Okay.

Mikkel Woodruff (23:16.296)
Windstar: that's a small ship cruise. There are about 300 passengers on their Star Breeze, Star Pride, Star Seeker, etc. They have a small but mighty fleet and we absolutely love them and hope definitely deep dive about Windstar.

Dan (23:33.486)
I would say everybody knows Viking.

Mikkel Woodruff (23:35.804)
Yes, Viking is great.

AmaWaterways, a leader in river cruising for sure and one we love.

Dan (23:48.984)
Yep. And then, well, It's gonna be interesting because Celebrity is gonna come out with river cruising coming up soon. So, but as of right now, let's say, I would say Emerald or maybe Scenic, both of them, maybe lesser known, but still, you see them pretty often on the rivers.

Mikkel Woodruff (23:56.168)
Good one

Mikkel Woodruff (24:14.288)
Yeah, and for our listeners out there, it's lesser known - the names perhaps - but we've been on them and love them. And people that go on river cruises and look into more river cruising options do quickly realize they are strong players in the river cruising space. They also do yacht cruising and expedition cruising. And little inside info, they are an Australian based company and Scenic owns.

Emerald. So scenic is a little bit of their higher end line and Emerald is their lower cost option but I hesitate to say that because they're still a high end brand.

I'm gonna go with American Cruise Lines. And that's in line with lesser known names in small ship cruising, which is funny because they're actually one of the river cruise options with the largest fleet comparable to Viking and AmaWaterways. But I'll let you, I teed the ball, but I'll let you hit it and say why American Cruise Lines is special and unique.

Dan (25:02.903)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Dan (25:19.587)
Yeah.

Dan (25:29.586)
First, would say it's Interestingly overlooked where a lot of people just don't think about cruising in the United States. And if they do, they automatically think Mississippi. And they don't talk about the Columbia or the Snake or the Rio Grande or the Tennessee River. All of those are viable options that nobody talks about. But it's also, cruising in the United States is so interesting because it's easy.

Mikkel Woodruff (25:34.567)
Yeah.

Dan (25:59.554)
Like you just have to get to the port. it's probably not going to be a six or 22 hour flight to get to your port. It might be a 45 minute drive or it might be a three hour drive. So the accessibility is there and that's just that comfort of not leaving the States.

Mikkel Woodruff (26:22.31)
I love that you said that because you just reminded me of another fantastic aspect of small ship cruising in the United States that is unique to small ships. Because big ships cannot do this because they have to make a port of call in a foreign port. So whereas you go on a big ship and you might leave from Seattle to go to Alaska, you would have to stop

in Canada, which means you need your passport or your birth certificate depending on the cruise line and the current rules and regulations. to do inter-country travel. And on small ships in the United States, you don't need that. You're probably only going to airports that are domestic travel. Even if you fly from somewhere like Florida or New York or Minnesota or Utah or California to Alaska,

Dan (27:08.747)
Yeah.

Mikkel Woodruff (27:17.06)
it is domestic travel. It's the same with Hawaii. We flew to Hawaii via California from Florida... you only need your driver's license. And we even had a conversation about a driver's license. We felt so weird going across oceans not bringing our passport, remember?

Dan (27:35.928)
Yeah, yeah.

Mikkel Woodruff (27:37.97)
But ultimately we decided the passport was for sure not necessary and left it at home even though it felt weird not traveling with it. But I love that you brought that up because you don't need your passport for an Uncruise adventure in Hawaii. Or, another name if we're name-riffing, Alaskan Dream Cruises in Alaska.

Throw me one more cruise ship and we will wrap it up with their one more cruise line rather and we will wrap it up there to keep the small ship cruise names top of mind for our listeners.

Mikkel Woodruff (28:21.232)
European waterways.

Dan (28:23.443)
You

Dan (28:31.18)
Last but not least, I would say just with our experience and what we've gone on is European Waterways. Nice barge cruise. Definitely not on a lot of people's radar, so a hidden gem.

Mikkel Woodruff (28:39.24)
Good one.

Mikkel Woodruff (28:44.264)
True.

Dan (28:54.446)
but not to be overlooked.

Mikkel Woodruff (28:56.904)
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited about this podcast because you just reminded me, you just reminded me, Maine Windjammer is also another one. Okay, I have to stop because we could talk about this forever, which is why we have a podcast about this. So

ship size is important.

Dan (29:21.646)
Ship Ship size is important. We've talked about a lot of the pros and cons, but really you're just going to get more of a destination focus. You're going to get that personalized service, less crowds, less crowds on the ship and at the ports. Those ports are going to be unique and more, as you're cruising, you're going to build that community. So you're going to build it with not only the crew, but your fellow passengers. And you're going to have to...

Mikkel Woodruff (29:24.872)
Mm-hmm.

Dan (29:50.454)
Have a connection to the communities that you visit.

Mikkel Woodruff (29:54.625)
I love that.

Dan (29:57.142)
So as we're building this out, I want to invite all of our listeners to share your own experiences, share it on social media or leave us a review and just drop it in the comments and let us know what you want to hear and what topics really resonate with you that we can talk about with your small ship cruising. So You can visit us on all the major social platforms @SometimesSailing and then

you can also visit our main blog at Sometimes Sailing. You can also visit our main site, SometimesSailing.com, and get ready for episode two, Three Flavors of the Small Ships. So We dive even deeper into river, expedition, and yacht, and the barge experience.

Mikkel Woodruff (30:40.84)
I am.

Mikkel Woodruff (30:50.988)
I am so looking forward to that. Thank you so much for listening. We are so grateful that you spent some time with us today and we are looking forward to the future of Small Ship Cruise Talk. Speak to you soon.

Dan (31:07.574)
Bye.