
Small Ship Cruise Talk
Welcome to Small Ship Cruise Talk, your go-to podcast for all things small ship cruising! Whether you're curious about river cruises, yacht cruises, expedition cruises, barge cruises, or ship-within-a-ship experiences on larger vessels, co-hosts Dan and Mikkel, of the esteemed small ship cruise website Sometimes Sailing, have you covered.
Ever wondered what it’s like to sail on a ship with just four passengers...or 150? Want to know how to budget for a small ship cruise and what the actual costs are? Do Dan and Mikkel give small ship cruise food a thumbs up or thumbs down?
Each episode delivers concise, value-packed insights to help you navigate the world of luxury, adventure, and intimate cruising with ease.
Join them as they dive into real cruise experiences, insider tips, and expert interviews to help you plan your perfect small ship vacation.
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Small Ship Cruise Talk
All About Alaska: Sitka's Hidden Treasures
Come along as we explore the charming city of Sitka, Alaska! Find out why it has a unique character, including its rich cultural heritage and breathtaking natural beauty. We’ll also discuss practical travel tips for your vacation planning, must-see wildlife experiences, and local dining recommendations. Consider this a comprehensive guide to enjoying Sitka.
You’ll also discover the hidden treasures that make Sitka a standout destination in Alaska and what’s essential to book early.
Here are some helpful links that come up during our conversation:
- These are the most amazing binoculars that we ALWAYS bring to Alaska.
- You’ll find the binoculars and other must-pack items in our easy-to-access Alaska Packing List on Amazon, including the right clothing, rain gear, and camera lenses.
- Find out more about our unforgettable experiences in Sitka, including our Bumble Expeditions adventure, The Salty Sitkan activity (and the link to book), the Fortress of the Bear, the Alaska Raptor Center, Harrigan Centennial Hall, Sitka National Historical Park, where we dined, and more.
- The dream resort that you must book if you are staying in Sitka beyond your cruise! We had an amazing experience at Twin Islands Retreat.
- We visited Sitka to start our Alaskan Dream Cruises Inside Passage Sojourn.
- For additional reading, learn more about luxury cruise options in Alaska and compare large and small ships. (Tune into a future episode when we deep dive into this topic!)
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Dan (00:35)
Hello and welcome everybody to Small Ship Cruise Talk. In this episode we're going to continue to talk about Alaska. And this week we're going to dive in and really dig into Sitka, Alaska. A small but mighty southeastern Alaskan city. Sitka has a unique character.
It’s a cute small town with Russian history, indigenous culture, and absolutely exquisite natural beauty. The city spreads along the coastline. I think it's about what 13 miles? Probably go 20 minutes from one end to the other.
Mikkel (01:06)
Mm-hmm.
Dan (01:06)
And you are going to have breathtaking views, you are going to see wildlife, and you're gonna really get a feel for what it is to be an Alaskan.
Mikkel (01:16)
Yeah, that's absolutely true. And in the next 20 minutes or so, just to expand on what you just shared, Dan, we are going to talk about what wildlife we saw so you know what you can expect. The must-visit and must-see cultural sites and where you can really understand the unique blend of the cultures that Dan just mentioned, the Russian culture, the Tlingit culture, the Native Americans, the Haida. And also, modern day American culture.
We are gonna talk about the unique one-of-a-kind local experiences. And I have to say that of all the places we visited in Alaska, I absolutely loved the experiences that we did and had in Sitka. And we're gonna tell you why. We'll also share some practical tips, including where cruise ships dock there.
And it is different for big ships and small ships. And we'll also let you know where to stay if you are extending your trip to make the most of your time. And we of course recommend doing that, especially if you want to get to know true Alaska.
Let's start with Sitka's geographical accessibility.
Dan (02:32)
Sitka is one Alaska's largest cities by population and it's located on the Inside Passage. If you visit by small ship, you have the advantage of walkable access to downtown. We arrived very late at night and we had prearranged transfer to our hotel. I think the trip was less than two miles. It took about five, maybe seven minutes to get from the airport to our hotel, which makes the downtown extremely accessible to travelers and cruise passengers alike.
Mikkel (03:01)
Yeah, I think generally it's very accessible and easy to get to if you just have the time, of course. You need to connect from somewhere like Seattle, usually, or Vancouver flight-wise if you are starting a cruise in Alaska or from Sitka or if you are just visiting on a land trip and flying to Sitka, for example.
Brief note, you can also take a ferry from just north of Seattle in Bellingham, Washington or an area of British Columbia. You can take a ferry as well, but it is going to take you several days to take that ferry up there. So maybe not your best option, but if you are not wanting to take a cruise there or a flight or drive, a ferry is an option.
And the best time to cruise is May through September, which also corresponds more or less to the best time to visit Sitka if you want better weather, optimal summer time, and also more daylight, which could work to your advantage if you are walking around downtown for an example.
Also, longer daylight hours is going to give you more opportunities to spot wildlife. So let's dive into the wildlife experiences you can expect.
Dan (04:12)
We saw some fantastic wildlife and we did that through Bumble Expeditions. They had a wildlife cruise that we took and the owners and operators, Cole and Sara, were extremely knowledgeable about the area and they really brought that whole tour to life. Well, they brought Alaska to life for us really. So they offer both land and water excursions. Like I said, we did the wildlife safari with them and that was a little bit of both but it was primarily on a boat.
The advantage of taking a tour like this is with a small, like very small ship, you can get into those really tight places that other ships can't get to to see wildlife and really experience firsthand the wildness of Alaska.
Mikkel (04:57)
That's a great point. I love that you phrase it like that because it did feel really wild because they were taking us to these places that even a small ship can't get to. So you think a big ship can't access what a small cruise ship can. And a small cruise ship, if we're going down the size funnel, can't access what Sara and Cole's smaller vessel could to go into those harbors and see the bears as close as possible as opposed to a kayak, let's say that's even smaller.
Not that I would say it's safe to approach a bear in a kayak, I would not recommend it. I don't know if anybody would recommend that, especially we saw a bear with her cubs. So that was like, amazing. But everybody I think who knows anything about bears knows not to approach a mama bear with her cubs, because she's gonna go all protective mother on you!
But we did see it from a very close safe distance in their boat with Bumble Expeditions, and that was just like absolutely phenomenal. And we saw sea otters pretty darn close up and we also had the potential for seeing whales. We didn't during our experience even though
Sara and Captain Cole tried their hardest to find them for us. Luckily, we saw them later on in our Alaskan adventure, this trip that we took that we're referencing. But another great part of our trip experience with them was that they took us to their home, which is actually on a small island. There are a bunch of small islands in Sitka.
And they took us to their home to have lunch and walk around. We had free range basically of their island. So we had fun looking for critters and creatures on the rocks in the water. And also we had some s'mores. It was the most beautiful s'mores display I'd ever seen. We had fresh berries that they had picked for us. And it really was a personalized experience. I can't say enough about how warm and friendly they are and their team is.
And if you're going to Sitka and you want to really jump in and see all of the nature surrounding you from a really unique perspective and support the local economy and have those dollars go 100 % into those people, I would say don't hesitate booking a tour with them. Also bring your own binoculars. They had some that we could borrow, but it was fun that we all kind of had our own pair so we could spot the wildlife together and then tell each other like, "Oh, we see something over there. We see something over there." So it just felt more like camaraderie, I guess you could say. We also saw salmon in the distance like trying to swim upstream with our binoculars. That was really fun. So can't say enough about how great they were. We also went to the Alaska Raptor Center and this is an area for bird rehabilitation and we got to see an eagle there. I remember seeing an owl.
Dan if you remember - how could we forget, right? As soon as the morning came the day after the night after we arrived in Sitka, we were walking around the small town and we were The power just went out."
And having never been to Sitka before, we thought maybe it's common. And we came to find out that it is not common. But because the city is so small, it's just a few thousand inhabitants, I think word gets around pretty fast. And who knows what social media and everything that they all have to stay connected in terms of the news. But we did quickly find out that a bald eagle had flown into one of the power lines. And that was not common.
And we asked if the eagle was then brought to the Raptor Center for rehabilitation right after. So if a bird is injured, this is where they are brought. And that's really amazing that they have guests come here and support them and are able to see the animals.
Dan (08:54)
So another wildlife attraction in Sitka is Fortress of the Bear Sanctuary. I mean, candidly, we didn't prefer this as much as some of the other bear experiences we did in Alaska. And that was primarily because these bears are in a habitat, because they are being rehabilitated, much like the raptors.
They're not suited to go back out into the wild, so they have to live for their own protection and probably for everybody's protection. They have to be in this sanctuary.
Mikkel (09:21)
And to that point...
I agree with you, I'm pretty sure they're not re-released into the wild. Whereas the Raptor Center, their goal is to re-release them into the wild. If they deem after a series of tests that you can actually see them putting the birds through these obstacles of sorts, this obstacle course at certain points of the day, if they are safe to re-release to the wild and safe in terms of that they can hunt for themselves, that they can fly and everything, they will.
So it's just two different animal experiences and two different goals. But to Dan's point, Fortress of the Bear is a great place that you're going to be guaranteed to see the bears, whereas Alaska Rainforest Sanctuary in Ketchikan that we talked about last week with Kawanti Adventures is more of a true wildlife habitat that there is a really pretty boardwalk for visitors.
You're not guaranteed to see bears there because it's trying to spot them in the forest. There's a pretty good chance you're going to, especially when it's salmon time and there's plenty of salmon in the river because the bears eat the salmon, of course. That's actually for the wildlife safari with Cole and Sara with Bumble Expeditions. They knew where the salmon hatchery was and bears love to steal fish from there. That's actually where we saw them, which is amazing for everybody visiting.
I guess you could say it's a circle of life in one way or another. But Fortress of the Bear is just different and it is a bear sanctuary, but they are in captivity and it's a habitat like Dan said.
Dan (10:53)
We also visited the Sitka Sound Science Center and Salmon Hatchery. It was pretty interesting.
It was a great educational opportunity to learn more about salmon and salmon spawning. And I have to be honest, I didn't really know that much about salmon other than they're delicious before going to the...
Dan (11:12)
Sitka Sound Science Center. But I learned all about the life cycle of the salmon and spawning. It was pretty interesting. They also had a touch tank. So we saw sea anemones and we saw a starfish and we were able to touch them and pet them in the water. And it was a great preview for the snorkeling that we did in Ketchikan. It really got us used to what we were going to see when we were under the water.
Mikkel (11:36)
Yeah, and that we talked about last week. So if you didn't listen to our All About Alaska Ketchikan episode, we encourage you to do that right after you listen to the rest of the Sitka one.
In terms of the cultural heritage in Sitka, it's a really fascinating blend of Russian history and indigenous Tlingit heritage, mostly in terms of Native American heritage there, and present-day American culture, of course, because
it has been a state for many decades. So, you're going to really experience that blend in the food, in the people that are residents there, especially year-round residents, and also in the tourism activities and such and people that are moving there now. Here's some places to see that. So an overview would be the Sitka National Historical Park.
You can see the Russian influence very clearly in St. Michael's Cathedral that is downtown. It's a small church and also at Harrigan Centennial Hall. So just to give you a little bit more information on each of those places, Sitka National Historical Park is a beautiful park. There are totem poles and a carving tent where you can see the artists carving the totem poles. Every totem pole outside there along the trail is a replica just to preserve the originals.
But it's an easy hiking trail. It's pretty flat ground, I would say you just have to watch where you're stepping. And the cultural significance can be felt because of those totem poles as you walk. And there's also gorgeous views from the waterfront. The Russian influence: in addition to St. Michael's Cathedral, there's a Russian bishops house and there's also Baranov Castle State Historic Site. And there are names also that you can associate with the Russian history because a name like Baranof is from Baranov, who is the Russian founder of Old Sitka, which was in 1799. Be sure to go to the Harrington Centennial Hall, which is very close to Crescent Harbor, which is where we embarked on our Bumble Expedition from. And inside is Sitka Historical Society and Museum.
And there were really fantastic old photographs that are historical and really shed light about Sitka over the decades. There was also memorabilia and Native American pieces. Practically speaking, it's a great place to use the restrooms if you need a little bathroom break and there are water filling stations inside. And then also outside of that building, is native art. So I remember taking a photo of you Dan with the totem pole sculpture that's outside and also there's a gorgeous canoe outside of the center that you should not miss if you have the time.
Dan (14:21)
In addition to the history and the wildlife, there's also other unique experiences in Sitka. There's great dining, shopping downtown. One thing that really stands out for me was when we worked with Mike over at The Salty Sitkan and we made a metal salmon keepsake. I guess you would call it wall art, right?
Mikkel (14:38)
Yeah, yeah. Yes, we did.
Dan (14:42)
Make sure you make a reservation because these workshops fill up pretty quickly from what I understand. But what it is is ultimately you get a piece of metal that's been cut into the shape of a fish or octopus, sea turtle, or bear, eagle. Yeah, it's going to be you get there's a smorgasbord of animals to pick
Mikkel (14:59)
You pick. Yeah, you can select your shape.
Dan (15:05)
And then for two and a half hours, Mike walks you through how to finish this piece of art and really make it your own. So there's some grinding, there's some burning, burnishing, there's a lot of different techniques that you can do to customize this piece of art. And it was a lot of fun. And we actually have our salmon hanging in the shed right now.
Mikkel (15:12)
Yeah. Burnishing? Yeah.
Yeah, I would say it's great for somebody who likes working with their hands, who maybe has been to Sitka before and is looking for something really different because you are inside his studio, so you're not exactly seeing the nature in Sitka, but you are making this awesome keepsake that reminds you of the nature you saw. I mean, one of my favorite things about having our salmon in the shed is that we saw a ton of salmon during that trip so that was really cool.
So definitely sign up with Mike for an excursion at The Salty Sitkan if you are interested in that. And like Dan said, it fills up quickly because there's limited space and obviously a limited number of classes per day. And you can do that if you are there just for a few hours from the cruise port. But you can also do it like we did if you're there for multiple days and you want a variety of things to do. This really adds to the variety of Sitka.
There are downtown highlights. It's incredibly easy to walk around Lincoln Street. Like Dan said, Sitka is only a couple miles long and the heart of Sitka is within, I would say, one square mile. So pop inside the galleries on Lincoln Street. There's awesome signage all around downtown, so it's really hard to get lost. There's also a public bus called, quote unquote, "The Ride."
It's $2 for an adult for a ticket or $1 for a senior or child. You can go shopping at one of my favorite places. I always love collecting salt - for better or worse because we have so many salts now in our kitchen. Dan has rightfully so told me to curb the salt purchasing because we don't use it as fast as I buy it. But Sitka has a place called Alaska Pure Sea Salt Company and it was started by a couple. One of the fun things to get in Alaska is Sitka Spruce flavored things that they make from the spruce tree. And then there's also Sitka Lighthouse Company store, which was another personal favorite.
They had some apparel and some tchotchkes to buy, like really nice high quality stuff. And then another place we really loved was the Alaska Designs sticker shop, which actually the only sticker I have on my water bottle that I take everywhere - my reusable water bottle - was from the sticker shop. But what I really loved and I appreciated because I'm an artist and Dan's an artist is that it was supporting local artists who made these incredible stickers.
And you could get something that was very Alaska themed like the state flower or a sea otter or a whale to remember your time there and maybe what you saw or just like kind of fun things. I remember getting a girlfriend, the Russian dolls that go into each other. Somebody made like kind of like a sexy lingerie one that I thought was really funny and like reminded me of one of my friends who I thought would appreciate it, so I bought that there too.
Dan (18:27)
So after you're done walking around Lincoln Street, I'm sure you're gonna be hungry. You definitely wanna check out Pel’ Meni. These are Russian dumplings. Now this place was very casual, but very delicious. When I say Russian dumplings, think little baby pierogies.
Mikkel (18:43)
Yeah, that's a great analogy.
Dan (18:44)
So they come with, what there was, sour cream, chives, I believe, were on top. And right, that's where it was.
Mikkel (18:46)
…sour cream. You could ask them what you wanted on the side. And it was totally casual, really delicious, affordable, so all great things. And again, very much central to downtown.
Dan (19:02)
The other place we stopped in for lunch was Beak. And that was, it's kind of, well, I don't want to say, it's kind of octopus themed, but it's more of, it was just their logo. But...
Mikkel (19:12)
Referring to the beak of an octopus for our listeners who are still learning about marine life and don't know that octopuses have beaks.
Dan (19:21)
Something interesting about Beak was that their menu prices include service gratuities, so there's no need to tip. And they had a pretty wide-ranging menu of just good comfort food, and everything was great there that we had for lunch.
Mikkel (19:35)
Yeah, it's really popular there. So have some patience. If there's a little bit of a wait, I would say expect a wait and then be delightfully surprised if there isn't. But it was fun just to kind of linger outside and enjoy the mild weather. Hopefully it's not raining when you're there. If it is, there are covered areas to wait. They don't take reservations.
They're open Wednesday through Saturday. And I really did appreciate that there gratuity-free model ensures that the people working there have a consistent living wage and can be full time employees there. And the food was good, I would say not mind blowing, but I really appreciated the variety. There was chowders - and who doesn't want a warm soup on a cold day? Even during summer, it's a little chilly there, of course, it depends on the exact day, but they had salads, sandwiches and fish tacos. So all in all good. It’s a crowd pleaser, I would say. And supporting local very much.
Dan (20:29)
When you're ready for dinner, make sure you go to Ludwig's Bistro. Now, reservations are almost a must here. 'Cause it’s very popular and it's it's going to fill up. They recently celebrated 20 years in business. So, you know, it's a local staple and you're going to see a lot of locals when you go in. It's a little bit nicer - more of an upscale dinner.
But the portions are huge. So make sure you go hungry or bring somebody that you can share your entree with. The other thing to keep in mind is they're only open from Wednesday to Saturday and dinners only.
Mikkel (20:56)
Yeah.
Dan (21:02)
It is a great splurge and it's gonna be a memorable evening out because the inside is very eclectic and it feels very Alaskan when you're in there.
Mikkel (21:11)
So you can't go to this if you are only in the port for a few hours because they don't open until I believe 5 p.m. most days. But if you are staying in Alaska, you should for sure add this to your must-visit restaurant list.
Let's dive into practical tips for cruisers, especially small ship cruisers that are extending their trip or even just visitors hanging out for a few days. including where to stay.
So like we said, downtown Sitka is very central and very easy to walk around. For our Alaskan Dream Cruises embarkation, we were driven the very short five minute drive from the hospitality suite that was at a downtown hotel that we'll tell you about in one minute. But it was a 30 minute walk or 1.5 miles.
Nobody was walking with their stuff. They transfer your luggage for you. But I just mentioned that to tell you how incredibly close it was to the small ship cruise port that we embarked on our inside passage showjourn with Alaskan Dream Cruises. Now that is very different from the docking area of a big cruise ship that visits Sitka, which is six miles from Lincoln Street and you cannot walk it. They bus you in and out and that is a stark difference between a large ship and a small ship if you are visiting Sitka.
And we're going to discuss this even more next week's episode discussing the Inside Passage Two Ways: Big Ships versus Small Ships. A little bit of a David versus Goliath in Alaska.
Dan (22:43)
When we talk about recommendations for places to stay, we absolutely loved Twin Islands Retreat.
Mikkel (22:49)
Mm-hmm. That was like such a favorite place of anywhere, I have to say, and let me know what you think. Anywhere we've stayed anywhere. It was so special.
Dan (22:58)
It truly was special. The owners, Merri and Larry, put so much time and effort into the smallest details that made the stay extremely special and definitely one of a kind.
Mikkel (23:11)
Yes, absolutely. And even you just saying that reminded me of so many things that Merri takes so much TLC with. So it is an island retreat, which means that Larry's going to pick you up in the motorboat from mainland, so to speak, Sitka and take you on the boat across to the island. And like we said, it was the same with Sara and Cole. Their home is also on an island. Merri and Larry do live on the island too.
But what this island gives you is really unmatched views, the gorgeous huge windows in the room that we stayed in and the room next door. We had a queen bed. It was just absolutely phenomenal waking up and going to sleep to that every night, especially because of the extended daylight hours that Mother Nature gives us, that the universe gives us during summer. So we could see the gorgeous view well into the night. And of course there were shades so we could block that out when we wanted to go to bed, especially if we wanted to go to bed early. She put an eye mask next to your bed that of course she washes between visits. So if you do need an eye mask to block out even more light, she gives that to you. She gives you fresh water by your bedside. She does turn down service.
There are comfy, cozy robes. She really thought of everything. And together, they offer their guests excursions. If you do want to upgrade and do a fishing excursion, let's say guided by Larry, and Larry knows where to go, or hunting, Larry knows how to hunt. He's been a hunter for years. And even the cocktails she welcomed us back to after we went out on an adventure in Sitka were just top notch.
So we do have an article explaining everything we did there and more, including the berry picking we did on their island or the fire pits. Oh my God - having a glass of wine at night by the fire pit and Merri made sure that we had throw blankets next to us to snuggle up, you know, was amazing. So please see the show description for more information. Again, we love supporting the local community and they are residents, and they do live there year round, so that is a great place to consider. Another place was Aspen Suites downtown.
Dan (25:29)
Our experience with Aspen Suites was through the hospitality suite.
Mikkel (25:33)
Though we had a limited experience, I will say that the inside of the hotel looked like an awesome option. If you do want to stay in the heart of downtown Sitka, I appreciated the style of the hotel. The staff that greeted us was really nice, not just Alaskan Dream Cruises crew that greeted us, but also the hotel staff. So we just wanted to mention that as an option downtown because we've been there and we've seen it with our own eyes and can vouch for the quality.
Dan (26:03)
Yeah, so those were just two of the recommendations, but there's a couple other places to stay in Sitka as well. So you will not have problems finding a place to stay.
Mikkel (26:13)
But to Dan's point, you want your preferred hotel, your number one choice, book early because it could sell out. Of course, it depends on the amount of people booking in advance. But I agree, you're not going to have a problem finding somewhere to stay. But if you want your preferred hotel and it's a popular hotel... for example, Twin Islands Retreat only has a handful of rooms. So definitely book early if you want your number one preference.
Dan (26:42)
As you're exploring Sitka, keep in mind you are in Alaska and the weather is going to change and the daylight is going to be different. So seasonal planning and seasonal packing are extremely important. Parts of Sitka are in a rainforest, so you definitely want to be prepared for rain. That's as far as footwear and just rain gear.
Check out the Amazon packing list that's in the show notes and for some insider tips there. Another thing to keep in mind is longer daylight during summer. When we were there, we did experience some of it, but be prepared depending on the time of year that you're there. Daylight may last a lot longer than you're anticipating.
Mikkel (27:21)
And conversely, if you for some reason decide that winter is the time to go and maybe it's because you want a better chance of seeing the Northern Lights, you're going to have a lot less daylight. So of course the cruise season is not over the North American winter, but it is a consideration to your point.
Dan (27:39)
Also, thing to keep in mind is Sitka is popular. People want to go there and a lot of people are going there. to make sure you have your preferences, book ahead, book early, and get reservations for those must-do and must-see for both dining and there is a peak season and there are plenty of other tourists that are going to be there in Sitka.
Mikkel (28:00)
And I think that's a great place to end. There are plenty of other tourists in Sitka because it is a phenomenal place to be. I am so glad we were there for multiple days and three nights before our trip. And I can't wait to go back one day.
Join us next week when we talk about versus Big Ship experiences in Alaska. Any final thoughts?
Dan (28:27)
Sitka was a surprise to me and I wasn't expecting to like it as much as I did. I was really looking forward to Juneau and more Ketchikan, but in my opinion, Sitka is a, a hidden gem.
Mikkel (28:29)
Hmm. There are so many hidden treasures in Sitka. hope that for you listening that we've opened your eyes to that.
Dan, do you feel like your mind vastly changed about where you would recommend somebody go? Is it in addition to Juneau and Ketchikan or where would you rank Sitka? For me, and I like this about us, that you've said that Ketchikan's your number one and Sitka's my number one. So if that is still true, where would you rank Sitka and why?
Dan (29:07)
It's difficult to rank because each one of the ports that we visited in Alaska is so different.
Mikkel (29:14)
Mm-hmm.
Dan (29:14)
Sitka was unique because of the proximity to nature. In a very short period of time, you're outside the city and then you're up close and personal with all the wildness of Alaska and the wilderness.
Mikkel (29:27)
So it feels like you're closer to wildlife, not that like Sitka is wild in terms of its modern amenities. It's more so that the wildlife is an arms reach away, so to speak.
Dan (29:39)
Yeah.
Mikkel (29:40)
Yeah, that's a great point. It does make it extra special. And as we've titled this episode, more of a reason to see this hidden treasure that is Sitka.
Dan (29:49)
I definitely look forward to going back. I know there will be more to explore and that makes me happy and a little sad. I like it being small and staying the way it is, but on other hand, it's fun to see what they're going to do next.
Mikkel (30:03)
In terms of tourism?
Dan (30:11)
That's right.
Yeah, it is exciting. Well, may we be lucky enough to go back and experience it for many years to come. Thanks for listening. We will catch you on next episode discussing The Inside Passage Two Ways.