Faith, Politics & Cinnabon Bribes – A Conversation with Tre Hargett

Tennessee Secretary of State Tre Hargett joins Jeff and Carollynn to talk about politics, faith, and how to lead with grace in a divided world. From social media pitfalls to unexpected Cinnabon campaign strategies, this one’s full of laughs, wisdom, and heart.

What does a Secretary of State actually do—and how does someone stay grounded in faith while navigating politics in a polarized world?

In this episode of Who Gave Jeff Allen a Podcast?, Jeff and Carollynn sit down with Tre Hargett, Tennessee’s Secretary of State, for a candid and often hilarious conversation about public service, political division, leadership, and grace under fire.

From debates over LLC letters and Cinnabon-style campaign strategies, to deeply reflective conversations about God, marriage, forgiveness, and burnout, Tre opens up in ways you rarely see from elected officials.

🗳️ You’ll hear:

• What it’s really like to be elected by legislators (not voters)
• How social media is distorting modern politics
• The importance of holding your tongue (and when he didn’t)
• Why his darkest season strengthened his faith
• How grace, empathy, and a sharp wit have helped him endure 5 terms in office
• Why “God told me to run” doesn’t always mean what people think

Join us for Jeff Allen’s Celebrity Golf Classic, a two-day event packed with comedy, camaraderie, and a whole lot of competition, all for a great cause. June 29th - 30th at Westhaven Golf Club

Your ticket includes: Dinner reception + comedy show and full tournament play. Open to golfers of all skill levels and ages.

Bring your swing, your sense of humor, and your heart for a good cause.

To find out more, head over to jeffallencomedy.com

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;02;17
Speaker 1
Hey, everybody, this is Jeff Allen and welcome to

00;00;02;17 - 00;00;15;09
Speaker 1
Who gave Jeff Allen a podcast. We're still trying to figure that out. And, I'm here with my co-host Carollynn Xavier, and we have a great guest, and she will tell you who that is.

00;00;15;11 - 00;00;32;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, the one, the only, Tre Hargett. We're so glad you're here. We love you so much. We're so glad you're here. He's the secretary of state. I don't exactly know what that is, but I think he's going to tell us it. He's been doing it since 2009. So since I was 19. Proud of you. Thanks for doing that.

00;00;32;23 - 00;00;41;00
Speaker 2
Appreciate it. And he started as a Republican House leader of the House of Representatives. Right. Yeah. I don't know what that is either.

00;00;41;03 - 00;00;44;22
Speaker 3
So, I mean, I was a top ranking Republican in the House of Representatives. Okay.

00;00;44;24 - 00;00;46;23
Speaker 2
Is that a good spot?

00;00;46;25 - 00;00;53;12
Speaker 3
Some days it was like you had a chief cat herder a lot of days. So, yeah, it was back when we were not a red state.

00;00;53;14 - 00;00;54;03
Speaker 1
Oh.

00;00;54;06 - 00;00;55;27
Speaker 3
Really? Yeah, we were.

00;00;56;00 - 00;00;56;20
Speaker 2
Battle it out.

00;00;56;24 - 00;00;59;06
Speaker 3
Yeah, it was a battle. It was a battle.

00;00;59;07 - 00;01;03;02
Speaker 2
Okay, will you tell us what the Secretary of State is? Because I don't really understand.

00;01;03;06 - 00;01;06;20
Speaker 1
First of all, I want I want to find out you're not elected as secretary of state.

00;01;06;20 - 00;01;08;12
Speaker 3
You know, I'm elected by the legislature.

00;01;08;13 - 00;01;09;05
Speaker 1
So legislature.

00;01;09;05 - 00;01;11;08
Speaker 3
There's 132 people in the state that vote for.

00;01;11;08 - 00;01;19;17
Speaker 1
Me. So we have a representative, state House representative to the people. And from that is that the majority ensures that the entire.

00;01;19;17 - 00;01;45;20
Speaker 3
The House and the Senate come together in a joint convention every four years to elect the Secretary of State, the Comptroller and the treasurer, now the control and treasurer are elected every two years. I'm elected every four years. So I was just reelected to my fifth term. And my term is also opposite that of the governor. So what that means is, you know, the governor wasn't on the ballot in 2024, but my to be reelected was determined by who was elected in 2024.

00;01;45;22 - 00;02;08;17
Speaker 3
So the legislature I flipped for Republican, a Democrat. They would have elected a Democrat Secretary of state in January of 2526. The governor was up for reelection and actually our governor's term limits. So we're going to the governor, but I'll be mid term. So that really assures it pretty much. There's always at least one of us left eight called the top tier of state government.

00;02;08;19 - 00;02;29;27
Speaker 3
If there's massive turnover and I'll say top tier state government, keep in mind if you're looking at the order of succession in state government, the Secretary of state's fourth, that sounds really impressive. But if you've watched the Olympics before, I mean, there is no battle for fourth place. I mean, so there's a pretty big drop off after the governor, lieutenant governor, speaker of the House, all the way down to secretary of state.

00;02;30;00 - 00;02;36;28
Speaker 1
Yeah. And what is your do it now? My understanding, first of all, how many states do it this way?

00;02;36;29 - 00;02;43;01
Speaker 3
A great question, Maine, New Hampshire and Tennessee. Now, that will not get you a wedge and Trivial Pursuit. So don't feel.

00;02;43;03 - 00;02;43;27
Speaker 1
The.

00;02;43;29 - 00;02;51;05
Speaker 3
Need to memorize that. But Maine, New Hampshire and Tennessee are the three that that do it the way we do it with a legislative vote.

00;02;51;07 - 00;02;53;17
Speaker 1
Okay? And the rest of them are all elected by.

00;02;53;18 - 00;03;00;14
Speaker 3
No, no, there are some states that it's appointed by the governor, like Virginia, you know, appoints.

00;03;00;17 - 00;03;00;26
Speaker 1
Roman.

00;03;01;01 - 00;03;10;26
Speaker 3
You know, new Jersey appoints. So there are states out there where it's really up to who is in the you know, Delaware is not where the governor, who the governor is in office.

00;03;10;29 - 00;03;14;12
Speaker 2
When you have it way harder because you have to convince 162 people.

00;03;14;12 - 00;03;15;25
Speaker 3
One 3132.

00;03;15;28 - 00;03;16;16
Speaker 2
130.

00;03;16;16 - 00;03;37;25
Speaker 3
Yeah. So it's, it's a lot cheaper than running a statewide election. But it's also it's nerve wracking, too, that, I don't get to necessarily go out and campaign for a year or two. And I, in my job interview is every day and how I do the job, but I wait till after I have to wait till after the November elections are over.

00;03;37;27 - 00;03;46;00
Speaker 3
Then I wound up calling the members of the legislature, going to see them and asking for their continued trust to be their Secretary of State. Okay, so so, you.

00;03;46;01 - 00;03;49;12
Speaker 2
Know, coffee every day for sure. I brought you your favorite.

00;03;49;12 - 00;03;50;01
Speaker 1
Well, yeah.

00;03;50;03 - 00;03;52;23
Speaker 3
The yard signs don't really work.

00;03;52;25 - 00;03;54;12
Speaker 2
I think outside your office.

00;03;54;12 - 00;03;56;19
Speaker 3
Yeah. Robocalls are a big turnoff.

00;03;56;19 - 00;04;00;22
Speaker 1
I would I would think Cinnabon would work really well. Yeah.

00;04;00;22 - 00;04;07;17
Speaker 3
With some that might. I hadn't thought about that. But thanks for playing that seed. And if anybody's listening now, I'm sure that the expectation the bar has been raised.

00;04;07;17 - 00;04;07;27
Speaker 2
I'll let you.

00;04;07;27 - 00;04;17;20
Speaker 1
Know. I don't want to give you a you know, and my nature, but it would certainly get my. Okay. So it doesn't take much. It doesn't take much to get mine there.

00;04;17;20 - 00;04;21;28
Speaker 3
Now my concern is four years from now, you if you're going to show up with Cinnabon for everybody, say I should be the.

00;04;21;28 - 00;04;23;21
Speaker 1
Secretary of state. Okay.

00;04;23;23 - 00;04;25;21
Speaker 2
Yeah, but by then you should be governor. Hopefully.

00;04;25;23 - 00;04;28;25
Speaker 1
Well, after this, maybe I don't know what you actually do.

00;04;28;27 - 00;04;30;26
Speaker 3
Well, hey, that would be it. That's a great goal.

00;04;30;26 - 00;04;58;26
Speaker 1
As our, before you get to my understanding, because there have been secretary of States in the news nationally because of elections and, I remember, the name that we don't mention, Soros, was actually funding a lot of, of his people into secretary of state put positions because of that. If elections got close than the Secretary of State has power to certify, not certify.

00;04;58;26 - 00;05;00;13
Speaker 1
Do you have power to certify or not?

00;05;00;15 - 00;05;16;14
Speaker 3
Or that's not an option for us. I mean, you know, we certify the results. I mean, you know, that's a that's a basic job duty that I have. I don't I don't think that I would really ever have an excuse to be able to say I disagree with the results if they are what they are and then not.

00;05;16;15 - 00;05;18;06
Speaker 1
You can't think really hard. I mean, come on.

00;05;18;06 - 00;05;27;28
Speaker 3
And then the 95 counties have have rolled those results up to us and we total them up and, you know, it would take a court order for us not to do something.

00;05;28;00 - 00;05;28;18
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;05;28;21 - 00;05;36;03
Speaker 2
Okay. I have an embarrassing question about your job. What do you do with LLCs? Because sometimes I get letters from you.

00;05;36;03 - 00;05;40;15
Speaker 3
And yeah, we may talk to you about that. That's that's really why I'm here today.

00;05;40;21 - 00;05;42;19
Speaker 1
It's an intervention.

00;05;42;21 - 00;06;01;17
Speaker 3
No. So we, in the division of business, we have a division of business, the charitable organizations inside the secretary of state's office. And one of the first things, whenever someone decides you want to start a business like a corporation, a limited liability corporation, limited ability partnership or nonprofit corporation, they filed those documents with us to start that business.

00;06;01;17 - 00;06;18;15
Speaker 3
So we've got over 405,000 businesses in the state of Tennessee that are register with our office. Now, if somebody is a sole proprietor or just what's called a general partnership. So they're not a corporation, none of those what our niche and they don't come to our office to do that. Yeah. But LLCs register with us in the state of Tennessee.

00;06;18;16 - 00;06;21;07
Speaker 2
We should figure out why I'm in trouble at some point, though.

00;06;21;07 - 00;06;23;16
Speaker 1
Maybe we are. You. Yeah, I know.

00;06;23;18 - 00;06;28;26
Speaker 2
I get yellow letters from you and they're signed. I thought you were just saying. Hey, how you doing? Yeah.

00;06;28;26 - 00;06;31;03
Speaker 3
You're. So. They think I'm signing every one of them.

00;06;31;09 - 00;06;35;17
Speaker 1
Know. I knew you looked like a felon. I didn't know you were actually a felon.

00;06;35;19 - 00;06;49;22
Speaker 2
Actually in trouble. Okay, so you and Jeff just met for the first time today. Yeah, but me and you have met before, and, I was going to tell Jeff. Doesn't know how we met the first time. You remember how we met? The first I.

00;06;49;22 - 00;06;50;09
Speaker 1
Do.

00;06;50;12 - 00;06;52;08
Speaker 2
So you want to tell your side of the story or you?

00;06;52;13 - 00;07;10;19
Speaker 3
Well, is there are there other two different versions of it? Because, I mean, we met the same time, so I like to think that they're going to be different. But, we actually were attending, an episode of a taping of Huckabee. I was in the audience and, and my wife is a huge fan of yours, and I follow you on Instagram.

00;07;10;19 - 00;07;12;19
Speaker 3
And my wife was like.

00;07;12;21 - 00;07;13;26
Speaker 1
That's her, that's her.

00;07;13;26 - 00;07;40;11
Speaker 3
I know who that is. And and so I'm like, Dallas, we don't know who that is. I said, that's got to be her. And so after the taping was over and they had introduced me and made a big deal out of me being there, the audience and, and and after was over, though, we went over it and got to speak to Carolyn and, and also have a really good friend of mine who's also in the comedy business that has been and knows a lot of probably the same people that, you know.

00;07;40;13 - 00;07;45;03
Speaker 3
And so, we kind of hit it off and wound up going to all going to dinner together.

00;07;45;04 - 00;07;45;14
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;07;45;21 - 00;07;58;05
Speaker 3
And eating Mexican together in Hendersonville that night. And, it was a laugh a minute. I mean, it was it was a lot of fun. So we bonded over that experience. We blocked her cell phone number.

00;07;58;08 - 00;07;59;18
Speaker 2
Somehow I keep getting new numbers.

00;07;59;19 - 00;08;00;20
Speaker 3
I somehow.

00;08;00;21 - 00;08;00;27
Speaker 1
Got.

00;08;01;02 - 00;08;10;02
Speaker 3
Doctored. But, now we consider Carol a dear friend, which, you know, might, might kind of question our judgment.

00;08;10;02 - 00;08;11;26
Speaker 1
But, but but.

00;08;12;00 - 00;08;14;11
Speaker 3
You know, that's how we met. Would you agree with that story?

00;08;14;13 - 00;08;31;02
Speaker 2
Yeah. I went into Huckabee and it was my first time there, and I wasn't working it. I just got invited because Lee Hardin was on it, and he was like, you had to go. And then I see him. He's all in, like, suited up to the gills. He's got a little button that's got a flag. Really? Yeah. You were so fancy that night.

00;08;31;09 - 00;08;32;24
Speaker 2
And I'm like, he's got to be like.

00;08;32;27 - 00;08;34;23
Speaker 3
A great song, by the way.

00;08;34;25 - 00;08;35;29
Speaker 2
Suited up to the gig.

00;08;36;02 - 00;08;36;23
Speaker 3
Fancy.

00;08;36;25 - 00;08;38;08
Speaker 1
You already know.

00;08;38;11 - 00;08;41;04
Speaker 3
Anyway, I keep going. I'm sorry. So?

00;08;41;06 - 00;08;57;19
Speaker 2
So he looks all, all fancy. And his wife is beautiful, and they're there and I'm like, oh, they must be real people, like, really fancy political people. And I'm like, I don't belong here. And then I went by myself and because I was alone, I was like, nobody at Huckabee is like, what is this crazy liberal doing here?

00;08;57;19 - 00;09;16;15
Speaker 2
Like a lone gunman? Nobody said anything. There's nowhere for me to sit. And they put all the singles, like at the front of the stage while they seat everyone. And then I'm like, there's one seat next to them and I'm like, oh, please don't send me nice to the fancy political people. I'll be so stupid. Please don't sit me next to the fancy political people.

00;09;16;20 - 00;09;24;01
Speaker 2
And then they sat me there and I was sitting there, and then he leans over and he's like, oh, wow, seems to think you're someone from Instagram.

00;09;24;01 - 00;09;26;19
Speaker 1
Is that true?

00;09;26;21 - 00;09;35;25
Speaker 2
I was like, yeah. And then he goes, and then I see Don has the biggest personality to have this beautiful dress on, this gorgeous blond hair. And she's like, I know.

00;09;35;25 - 00;09;37;10
Speaker 1
It was you. So it.

00;09;37;10 - 00;09;42;01
Speaker 3
Was. Yeah, that was true. I told you, I told you, I told you was her. Yeah. I've been telling you that.

00;09;42;02 - 00;09;49;23
Speaker 2
It was so much fun. And then I was like, did I vote for you? Or how do you how does it how could you feel? I was like, who did I.

00;09;49;27 - 00;09;58;21
Speaker 1
Tell you when I first met governor? I told him straight up, I didn't vote for you in the. I just want you to know, I don't want to, you know, I don't want any thing between us.

00;09;58;21 - 00;10;01;11
Speaker 3
Nobody could accuse you of being for the church of you. You're not.

00;10;01;11 - 00;10;16;28
Speaker 1
Lukewarm. Exactly. I just told him. I said no, and we're still good friends. That's. That's the kind of character gov has, you know, but now that he's one of the ambassadorship, I did ask him, do I call you and or do I give you I don't know.

00;10;17;01 - 00;10;31;16
Speaker 2
Outside of we've laughed a bunch and we've gone to like comedy shows and stuff together, but I don't know anything about how you start it. Like, how did you. You just wake up? What did you put on? Little suits as a little kid. How does that.

00;10;31;19 - 00;10;52;28
Speaker 3
That's awesome. That's a that's a great one. So, I've always been arrested in politics, always arrested government and frankly, more arrested as a vehicle to help other people. To me, that that that's really what excited me about when I, when I would read it when I was in grade school, I read about historical figures and I read about people and the difference I made in the lives of others and thought, hey, that's a that's a place that may be one of these days.

00;10;52;28 - 00;10;53;24
Speaker 3
I get to do that.

00;10;53;29 - 00;10;56;26
Speaker 2
Which person in particular hit you the hardest?

00;10;56;28 - 00;11;13;21
Speaker 3
Well, I mean, I liked I like Washington, I mean, a big George Washington fan, Abraham Lincoln fan, but also like people like Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman. I just I enjoyed reading about historical figures, JFK, what have you. So it didn't necessary no political party or political bent. I just thought that, hey, I have a heart for service.

00;11;13;21 - 00;11;17;06
Speaker 3
And, so I was always interested in that growing up.

00;11;17;08 - 00;11;18;07
Speaker 2
Do you grow up in Tennessee?

00;11;18;07 - 00;11;21;20
Speaker 3
I grew up in Ripley, Tennessee, about an hour north of Memphis.

00;11;21;22 - 00;11;22;15
Speaker 1
And leave it or not.

00;11;22;15 - 00;11;32;10
Speaker 3
Yeah. Believe it or not, great to meet us, by the way. The best tomatoes if you ever looking around. So, and I went to college at Memphis State. It was Memphis State when I was there.

00;11;32;17 - 00;11;34;04
Speaker 2
Were you parents into politics?

00;11;34;11 - 00;11;54;04
Speaker 3
You know, I had a grandfather ran for the county commission. He was on the county commission for quite some time. Had my father, I would not say was in politics. He ran for school board, lost that race. But later on, he was the adjutant general, the state of Tennessee. And, so you had to have some element of politics and political acumen to be able to pull that off.

00;11;54;07 - 00;12;13;08
Speaker 3
So we I would not describe us as a political family. And where I grew up, I mean, frankly, it was a Democrat county. You know, I tell people, if you're a Republican in my county, people knew who you are. And, and you couldn't field a baseball team. Yeah. I mean, so, there weren't many of us back then, but.

00;12;13;11 - 00;12;34;01
Speaker 1
I grew up South side of Chicago, basically. My father was a union construction worker, and he said, you vote Democrat or I tear up your birth certificate. Oh, so so I didn't vote. I just know, but, one of the things I want to ask you, you went from the statehouse, so you ran first for the state representative.

00;12;34;01 - 00;12;52;02
Speaker 3
27 years old, right, of the state House and served five terms in the state House of Representatives. Like you mentioned earlier, Carolyn, the last two terms, I was elected to be the top ranking Republican. The House Representatives, term limit of myself. I'd said no more than two years in the state House. A lot of people thought I would run the state Senate.

00;12;52;04 - 00;13;04;11
Speaker 3
When that seat came open, I just chose not to. I had a young child, you know, toward the end of my career and, and was really ready, honestly, to be home more and.

00;13;04;12 - 00;13;31;26
Speaker 1
And I'll tell you, it, it's I moved here in 97 and, Maybe you could speak to this. Contentiousness has really amped up, yeah, as far as it goes, because I always thought that there wasn't much of a difference, you know, between the parties. And in Tennessee, you know, most people were pretty center, you know?

00;13;31;28 - 00;13;55;28
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, in one way or the other, there wasn't the contentiousness. And it seems like in the last five or so years, nationwide, it's gotten really divisive. And, so can you speak that? I mean, obviously as someone who's been elected by your peers for five terms, you've seen you've got to be somewhere centered. I mean, you're well or balanced.

00;13;55;28 - 00;14;14;28
Speaker 3
When I first start getting elected, the first time I ran, I got every Republican voted what Democrat vote, and Democrats voted against me. The next three times I had some I had, a few Democrats not vote for me. And then this most recent time, I don't think I got any Democrat votes. Right. So, I mean, it's changing.

00;14;14;28 - 00;14;36;00
Speaker 3
I think social media has ruined it in a lot of ways. I think that people in politics and outside of politics, people have their agenda, and they're trying to make sure that everybody hears their version and what they believe is right in that moment. And also not thinking about, the long term relationships that they have to have to go get things done.

00;14;36;00 - 00;15;03;20
Speaker 3
Right. And that's really the shame. I mean, when I served for ten years and House Representatives, I mean, there were days where, I mean, I, I was so mad at the Democrats for what they had done, but I could go out to dinner that night and be be at a table with several of them, and I and I could we could kind of dig each other a little bit, but I still had those relationships and, and, and I still have a lot of those today, but it's harder.

00;15;03;23 - 00;15;21;26
Speaker 3
There are some people that you know, when they want to come and give me a hug. I'm kind of shocked when they want to give me a hug. And I'm thinking, do you not see what you just typed on Instagram 24 hours ago? Are you sure you want to? And I've even had times where I've been with somebody in the opposing party, and I felt like I did them a solid.

00;15;21;26 - 00;15;30;20
Speaker 3
I said, hey, I'm going to step out of your picture. You here's what you need. So whenever you're running for office, nobody's going to use the fact that you and I are standing in a picture of smiling against you.

00;15;30;22 - 00;15;49;29
Speaker 1
I think that's tragic. As a comic, Johnny Carson had a, way of looking at it. If you tell a joke on Tuesday about somebody, you should be able to go golfing with him on Wednesday. And, I just wrote a book, and I remember the publisher pushing me to throw, basically throw my parents under the bus.

00;15;50;02 - 00;16;09;19
Speaker 1
They wanted all this salacious stuff about my mom and my dad, you know, and I said, I'm not doing that. Yeah, if they were alive, I'd want them to be able to read it and at least look at it and go, this is fair. And it doesn't seem like fairness has anything to do with it. Or give me a give me a middle ground, you know, and I think you're right.

00;16;09;19 - 00;16;32;27
Speaker 1
Social media, because it becomes you're playing for the outside, not the inside. And, and what I'm trying to ask, I'm just like, because someone obviously you've been around. I mean, you've been here, you've seen the the the change. You're not new to this. If you were if you were new to it, you just came to it. And this is what you know.

00;16;32;29 - 00;16;39;08
Speaker 1
So it my I guess my question is, has it it hasn't soured you to the point where you're ready to walk away.

00;16;39;09 - 00;16;40;13
Speaker 3
Well it's.

00;16;40;15 - 00;16;41;11
Speaker 2
Announces his.

00;16;41;14 - 00;16;46;15
Speaker 1
All right, all right. That's what I'm looking for. I think it's, it's a it's a tough climate.

00;16;46;18 - 00;17;00;03
Speaker 3
But, you know, one of the things that I take a, a great satisfaction is my job is to be obedient to God. And believe me, I don't get it. I don't always get it right. I mean, I haven't been, you know, 100% today. So, I'm a little nervous.

00;17;00;04 - 00;17;02;01
Speaker 1
Let's talk about it. Yeah.

00;17;02;02 - 00;17;03;08
Speaker 2
So you have a priest?

00;17;03;09 - 00;17;05;00
Speaker 1
Well, I got another Ted.

00;17;05;03 - 00;17;22;02
Speaker 3
I got a whole nother riff about that. But also, you know, I'm trying to be fair. Right? And, And so one of the things it's hard in life is even when, you know, somebody is trying to take your head off, God doesn't call us to get even, right? God calls us. Just do the right thing in that moment.

00;17;22;02 - 00;17;43;24
Speaker 3
And so I try to live that way. I have, as I hope you've kind of determined, I'm a have a pretty quick wit. Yeah. And I have a feeling I can have a very sharp tongue and I have to rattle that. I mean, there have been a lot of times early in my career where I said things that were funny for a moment, right and wrong for a while, then damaged relationships.

00;17;43;25 - 00;17;45;05
Speaker 1
Very true. You know.

00;17;45;05 - 00;17;59;11
Speaker 3
And so I try to think about a lot of times, when I've got Francis. Well, you should say so and so so and so and let people know about that. I'm like, you know what? That's on them. They're the ones got to live with that. You know, one of the best things that helped me with that, though, was becoming a father.

00;17;59;14 - 00;18;19;03
Speaker 3
Is I really before I became a father, I really saw things and like, hey, I want to be right. And I'm going to say whatever I want to say when I want to say it. And I for my child, my first child was born. I started thinking, you know what? That person over there, when I cut them down, when I make them feel less than half the more they got to go home.

00;18;19;03 - 00;18;29;01
Speaker 3
And I take that home to their wife. They take that home to their kids, they take their home, their their dog. They go home and kick the dog. And I'm like, you know what? What should I do? I shouldn't be doing to treat people that way?

00;18;29;01 - 00;18;33;06
Speaker 2
So that's so bad that maybe they go home, they kick. No.

00;18;33;09 - 00;18;35;10
Speaker 1
Well, I was because I tried.

00;18;35;13 - 00;18;42;13
Speaker 3
Well what's it, what's the old what's the old saying is somebody goes home and you know, they take it out on their spouse or spouse, takes out the kids and kids take it out on the animals.

00;18;42;13 - 00;18;44;20
Speaker 2
And oh, that is actually yeah.

00;18;44;22 - 00;18;45;25
Speaker 3
I've heard that before.

00;18;45;25 - 00;19;01;01
Speaker 2
And you were talking about Instagram. I'm sorry to interrupt you. You're talking about Instagram. And do you feel like when you got into the political scene, like you were there for a heart to serve, like you were talking about, and your faith played a huge piece in that? And then people bring it to Instagram and social media, and then it's all smoke and mirrors.

00;19;01;01 - 00;19;21;13
Speaker 2
So it's like it just solidifies this idea that it's like, oh, well, this is my outward presence. I'm this staunch Republican or the staunch Democrat that wants everybody to think that I'm that person. But you're saying no, I want to come at it without the smoke and mirrors, and I just want to be a real person with real relationships, but still has a heart for service.

00;19;21;13 - 00;19;24;25
Speaker 2
Do you feel like there's less people that have a heart for service now?

00;19;24;25 - 00;19;45;13
Speaker 3
No, I wouldn't say that. I think they're I think the views of a lot of politicians are much more at the extremes than they used to be. And I think there's a, even if their views are not that extreme because of having that who they're having to play to, to, to try and get reelected, get their point across, they feel the plight of those extremes.

00;19;45;16 - 00;20;05;26
Speaker 3
Yeah. And there's a lot of people out there, Democrats or Republicans that you see one way on Instagram and then you have a conversation with them. I'm like, well, I didn't really realize that's how you felt, but because it's a little milder than what you might have thought to start with. And, and what you really hope is that everybody's won't have a conversation about something.

00;20;05;26 - 00;20;26;25
Speaker 3
And there are people out there, you know, there's a Democrat legislator who stopped by my office of the day who, she and I disagree on several things, but I love her. I mean, she's fantastic. And, she had brought some people by to meet me, and and we were having this conversation, and I said, hey, I know there's days that she's ready to take my head off.

00;20;26;25 - 00;20;44;10
Speaker 3
She just absolutely cannot agree with me on this, I said, but I also recognize her constituents feel that way, too, in many cases. And, and every day she does things that I don't agree with. But as long as you know that that other person is coming to it with the best of intentions, that makes a world of difference.

00;20;44;10 - 00;20;56;08
Speaker 3
Whenever somebody is coming into it trying to think about, here's how I'm going to score points, and my goal is just to score points and not really makeup. Make a policy change, not make a difference. That's really where I have trouble dealing with you at that point.

00;20;56;10 - 00;21;07;27
Speaker 2
But after all these years, can you see right through that? Because in entertainment, like, you know, people that are just trying to use you to better their career or whatever, so do you feel like you kind of have your key on people, right? When they.

00;21;07;29 - 00;21;10;13
Speaker 3
I tend to trust very easily.

00;21;10;15 - 00;21;14;01
Speaker 2
Oh, I have that same problem. That's why I'm divorced. High five.

00;21;14;03 - 00;21;15;14
Speaker 3
I'm not divorced. To be clear, I'm not.

00;21;15;16 - 00;21;20;18
Speaker 2
I know you guys are like, not you're not old, but you're the oldest married people I know.

00;21;20;21 - 00;21;30;15
Speaker 1
Well, for all intents and purposes, we got divorced and then we stayed together. But we had the papers, we notarized and we were driving. And then ten minutes while. Let's go home.

00;21;30;18 - 00;21;38;24
Speaker 2
How long have you been married? 30 years. And you guys have two boys and boys? Yeah. Oh, my gosh, they have two boys and they've been married 38 years.

00;21;38;26 - 00;21;39;27
Speaker 1
38. Yeah.

00;21;40;00 - 00;21;45;04
Speaker 3
Which I'm not trusting easily. I came to trust and she proved to me that I can't trust you.

00;21;45;21 - 00;22;01;11
Speaker 3
And, and so there's a group people, and that's a not a huge group out there, but people who I know that they're in it for political points. They're not. They are going to do everything they can to take me down. Yeah. Because they believe that's what they have to do in their job to get to get their point across.

00;22;01;11 - 00;22;10;23
Speaker 3
And that's up to them. And I just choose to just say, I don't have to deal with that person. I'll be nice to them. But as far as a real conversation, I'm not going to invest my time in that.

00;22;10;25 - 00;22;22;16
Speaker 2
Has there been a time where you've really had to go against the grain to abide in your faith, even if it made you uncomfortable? Or Tennessee leans pretty Christian, so it wasn't too bad.

00;22;22;18 - 00;22;40;25
Speaker 3
Yeah, I can't really say that. I've had that poll where I thought, I really want to do this, but my faith tells me to do that. I mean, I like to think I'm pretty pretty aligned. You know, there's certainly decisions that each and everyone of us make every day that if God were to come back today, it's like, really?

00;22;41;02 - 00;23;01;11
Speaker 3
That was the decision you made in that moment. Yeah. But when I think about politics, I really think of those now. I can't think about moments where I've said things where I wish I hadn't said. I can think about the tone in which I said them. It will ask us that wasn't very Christlike and that that was not the right way to do that.

00;23;01;13 - 00;23;04;06
Speaker 3
And, so I have those moments, of course.

00;23;04;12 - 00;23;17;18
Speaker 2
Yeah. We going to Christ like outside of his office. I wrote this in the notes. I don't know if you saw it, but it's the coolest thing. Right outside of his office, will you share the story of when there was a duel and they shot inside?

00;23;17;20 - 00;23;22;21
Speaker 1
Yeah. What? Capitol. Oh, you did. I did read it. There was a there was a ricochet marker.

00;23;22;23 - 00;23;53;19
Speaker 3
There's actually a bullet mark up in the banisters that connect the first and the second floor of the state capitol. And so during, during the days of the Confederacy, I should say in Tennessee, the, the, the past days, the Confederacy, when there was the, the battle over recognizing the, the freedom and the rights of a black man, there were legislators who wanted to leave in order to not so that they didn't have enough people to vote on that issue.

00;23;53;21 - 00;24;02;04
Speaker 3
And, and, and security, you know, shot guns to get them to go back upstairs and do their job. Do their job. Don't do your job.

00;24;03;02 - 00;24;07;08
Speaker 2
We're talking about, like, the smoke and mirrors on Instagram. They used to get shot.

00;24;07;10 - 00;24;42;14
Speaker 1
You know, you're say, oh, man, you read our history. There were people were beat downs in the at the federal level in in the chamber and with gains they just pounded on. I mean, it was always gotten contentious, but like you said, they had meals together. You know, you'd finish up and you know, okay, man, we we battled, you know, but yeah, there was enough respect for one another, you know, and I think with, with, with the social media, which is why I think it's gotten the way it is, is, I started on Twitter when it opened up and I realized really quick I wasn't made for Twitter.

00;24;42;17 - 00;24;59;26
Speaker 1
I'd make a comment, and then it hit me from every side, and I'd make two volleys and realize I'm bored. And then I'd ask people because they'd call me, you know, all these ad hominem things, and you go, what's your end game? Yeah, they go, what do you mean? Are you trying to change my heart? My mind?

00;24;59;28 - 00;25;11;04
Speaker 1
Calling me those names is not exactly the way to go. I'm just telling you how I'm wired. So to do you. Are you able to just let it roll off if they attack.

00;25;11;04 - 00;25;18;14
Speaker 3
You, I've got a lot better. I don't know my Twitter passwords, so. Oh, good. I'm good. Good. I don't I don't I don't get on there and look at that. Oh what I.

00;25;18;14 - 00;25;22;28
Speaker 1
Mean even in the chamber where, if they do a face to face where they.

00;25;22;28 - 00;25;39;16
Speaker 3
You know, I have a lot of respect. This guy walks up to me and just says what they're thinking about me and says, hey, I disagree with that. And some of the people who are who I really have had a hard time with, politically, I actually have respect that they will sometimes. Can't we just say, hey, I don't like this.

00;25;39;19 - 00;26;04;12
Speaker 3
And here's what I believe you're trying to do. And we can get nose to nose over a little bit. And there's one legislator who, one night I mean, I did something that they really thought there was something nefarious. I was trying to uphold the law. It was a not a well known law. And they were screaming at me, and I was screaming at them, and, and, and I wound up a couple weeks later saying, calling them and said, I yelled at you and I shouldn't have yelled at you.

00;26;04;14 - 00;26;11;19
Speaker 3
And I said, and that's my fault, and I shouldn't, I shouldn't have done that. And to their credit, they said, I shouldn't have yelled at you either.

00;26;11;21 - 00;26;11;26
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;26;11;29 - 00;26;29;25
Speaker 3
Said, you know, I still don't agree with you, right? I still don't understand why you did what you did. I shouldn't have yelled at you and even during some of my darkest times, I mean, and I'm like, think I've done this for other people on the other side of the aisle, too, that I had a lot. I had a lot of Democrats who have reached out to me and said, hey, I'm praying for you.

00;26;29;25 - 00;26;48;13
Speaker 3
Hey, I'm thinking about you. Hey, I wish I could vote for you politically. I can't, I've I've called I've called the people on the other side of the aisle during this last election and said, don't put yourself in political harm's way. For me, it's going to be okay. You ought to vote for me if you can't. I mean, if you want to vote for me, it's probably not the right vote for you.

00;26;48;15 - 00;26;50;20
Speaker 3
Let's just all move on, get past this.

00;26;50;23 - 00;26;51;15
Speaker 1
So cool.

00;26;51;18 - 00;26;53;08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Maintaining those relationships.

00;26;53;09 - 00;27;19;27
Speaker 1
Yeah. I had a club owner years ago. I said some, harsh things to. And the guy that booked me was out of Atlanta. This was in Texas. He called me and asked me if I said those things, and I said I did, and I called him back. After we hung up, I said, I want to apologize if I said anything that puts you in a compromising position with the guy in Texas for that.

00;27;19;27 - 00;27;38;12
Speaker 1
I'm sorry, but I said given the same set of circumstances, I'd probably say the same thing, but I didn't mean to put you in the middle of what I well, I did not realize that by me saying those things drove you into the conversation, but, yeah, given the same set of circumstances, I'd probably react the same way.

00;27;38;14 - 00;28;01;24
Speaker 1
You know, but, I do apologize for that. And that's the way adults should. I mean, we all make mistakes. But again, when you get in the public, it's interesting all these videos come out of people who've been and certainly the federal level for 50 years, 40 years, and they were saying things 20 years ago that they're totally against today.

00;28;01;24 - 00;28;27;22
Speaker 1
Anything you see the video and you go, do they have any any desire to come out and at least answer why they flipped or changed or, does that come up in private conversations? We're just going to go, hey, look. Well, if by the way, you did mention something to I want to yeah. What's the obscure US law that's been on the books since like 1841?

00;28;27;29 - 00;28;30;26
Speaker 1
I don't know, you know, how to get into that.

00;28;30;29 - 00;28;56;02
Speaker 3
I could dig that deep, but, yeah, you know, I watch the news like you do. Yeah. I mean, you know, and there things that you, I mean, I, I've seen people here in Tennessee who when they were first elected, they felt one way, when they were leaving, they were totally different. I can go back to votes that I made when I first got in the legislature and statements that I made, and less than ten years later, I made a vote that was in contradiction that, I mean, I'll give you an example of one.

00;28;56;05 - 00;29;14;25
Speaker 3
My first term. I'm I'm 27 years old. Not a lot of life experience that somebody says to me about having voting rights restored, you know, for a felon to have their voting rights restored after life after they finished their sentence. And I thought, well, lose your voting rights party or the punishment for that, and very black and white to me.

00;29;14;28 - 00;29;43;26
Speaker 3
And after I served and finally my last year, there was a bill that came up about making changing the ability of felons to get their voting rights restored and to streamline that a little bit, like a little bit easier. And, and I voted to do that. And so it was really 8 to 9 more years of experience of hearing will live stories often having, you know, probably for me also seeing other people go through different things in their lives, realizing that things aren't always as black as white, black and white as you think they are.

00;29;43;28 - 00;29;46;12
Speaker 3
And so, my vote changed.

00;29;46;15 - 00;29;46;22
Speaker 1
On.

00;29;46;22 - 00;30;04;05
Speaker 3
How I felt about that. And, and so I also try to give grace whenever I see somebody on TV. Right, who says one thing today, but they were different. 10 or 15, ten, 15, 20 years ago. Now, I do get concerned whenever they're one way today. But 30 days ago it was totally different line, right?

00;30;04;05 - 00;30;06;09
Speaker 1
But you also have a reason why you changed.

00;30;06;11 - 00;30;32;15
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so I think that's one of the hardest things for I think officials sometimes just recognize that, hey, you may have changed your, your method or your method of thinking on an issue. The value of going back and talking to your constituents and explaining why your, your vote change or your reasoning changed, to help people walk through that with you.

00;30;32;17 - 00;30;44;22
Speaker 3
This is really a bad example, but I'm going to use it, back. Well, you know, you mentioned all was being divorced, and Lord knows there were times where I didn't like Donald and I were going to make it to year ten, but I was.

00;30;44;22 - 00;30;47;16
Speaker 1
Going to ask you, maybe she feel about you.

00;30;47;18 - 00;30;50;21
Speaker 3
You know, she's great. I mean, you know, wives take it harder than I.

00;30;50;21 - 00;30;51;18
Speaker 1
Was going to say because I know.

00;30;51;20 - 00;30;59;07
Speaker 3
Just take it harder because, I mean, there are things that I've had to tell down over the years. I'm like, hey, you got to let that go. That that when you you got to let that go.

00;30;59;08 - 00;31;00;08
Speaker 2
And she's a firecracker.

00;31;00;08 - 00;31;01;07
Speaker 3
That person is our head.

00;31;01;07 - 00;31;02;00
Speaker 1
Space, Tammy.

00;31;02;05 - 00;31;21;03
Speaker 3
But there are times when you are telling a family member or a friend about you, you won't believe what my spouse did and you won't believe this and what we're going through and, and, and then, you know, two days later, you and your spouse are good again and everything's good, but you typically you don't go back to your friend or your family member said, hey, all that stuff.

00;31;21;03 - 00;31;30;08
Speaker 3
I say we're good, so disregard that. So you're constituent the same time, hasn't had the opportunity to kind of walk through that and see your evolution of reasoning.

00;31;30;10 - 00;31;56;15
Speaker 2
Yeah. Do you feel like your faith plays a big part in that? Because I know you when you use that analogy about, felons and stuff. I always was like, yeah, lock them up. Who cares? I was super pro-death penalty. And then when I became a believer and had the idea of redemption and God's grace and growth and mercy and somebody that's actually unbelievably close to me, a family member, became a felon and lost their right to vote.

00;31;56;17 - 00;32;21;16
Speaker 2
And it was just one of those things where it was mixed medication, was driving, got super erratic with the cops. And it not saying that that's an excuse, but it was just like, truly these things came into place and this happened. And now it's like there's no going back. And it's just. So anyways, with does your faith play a part in it and have you grown in your faith during you mentioned the dark times.

00;32;21;16 - 00;32;31;15
Speaker 2
I don't know if we're allowed to talk about those, but we talk a lot about if I don't time, there's a lot of, did that kind of mold and shape you. Did it make you closer to God? Did God bring you through it?

00;32;31;21 - 00;32;47;08
Speaker 3
You know, I, I really think that during those dark times, you really have an opportunity to lean into your faith. I think, unfortunately, it's a gift. Yeah. And I think a lot of times when things are really good, you kind of say, hey, God, I've got this. You've got God, go get a cup of coffee. I'm good for.

00;32;47;08 - 00;32;48;13
Speaker 2
My well, I'm.

00;32;48;15 - 00;33;08;12
Speaker 3
I'm good. And so I think whenever you go through really difficult times and, you know, we all have those, I mean, some more serious and others that, that God is there for you. God's always there for you. But I think we're probably seeking out more on those, those difficult times and that we do when times are good.

00;33;08;12 - 00;33;26;29
Speaker 1
Yeah, we're we're, doing a thing in my show, but tikkun olam, which is the, in the Jewish faith, the way I set it up is in the Jewish faith. When you get on your knees and complain to God about a broken world, his response to you is, you know, I know. You know, it's not like he's up there going what?

00;33;27;02 - 00;33;48;18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Who told me I was so focused on Jeff's three foot pots I completely lost sight of that human trafficking thing. So his response is what are you doing to repair what's broken? And I think that he just wants to hear from us. And the older, the longer I walk in my faith, the more I realize it is that simple.

00;33;48;20 - 00;34;10;08
Speaker 1
Just wants to hear from us. Our pastor did a whole sermon about knocking and his example was my kids know our bedroom door is closed. It's off limits, but if they want us, they'll knock. And no loud and no knock and no knock and no knock and no knock until someone comes and answers that door and he said, that's the image I have.

00;34;10;10 - 00;34;28;14
Speaker 1
He has a special needs kid. And he says, I pray every day of my life for my son to get up out of that chair every day for 15 years, morning and night. And I want him to get up. That's what I'm I'm I'm honoring him because that's what he said.

00;34;28;17 - 00;34;50;13
Speaker 3
You know. Well, and we know that our God's powerful, powerful enough to do anything that he wants to do. And, so I a love that we use that story just gave in that expression about knocking. And he expects us to have that relationship with him. He expects us to ask, expects us to talk to him. I gotta tell you, sometimes over the years, I have found myself in prayer thinking, oh, that sounds petty.

00;34;50;13 - 00;35;12;10
Speaker 3
You've got God. You've got so many other things to worry about. You worry about human trafficking. And I'm worried about this. And I remember going back to my very first race in 1986, and I came here praying at night and and seriously, I would say, no, no, God, I want to win. I should I would like to win, I said, but if you think I need a good a paraphrase, a good weapon.

00;35;12;10 - 00;35;15;20
Speaker 3
Yeah. I said, I'll take it. I'm not gonna like it.

00;35;15;20 - 00;35;16;09
Speaker 1
Right.

00;35;16;11 - 00;35;33;21
Speaker 3
But and I'm working for it if you're playing this and I think that's the hardest thing a lot of times is recognizing he is. He is so much wiser than we ever thought of that being. His plan for us is so much greater than anything we could ever have for ourselves. And try to turn that over and trying to say, hey, I don't really understand why all this is happening.

00;35;33;24 - 00;35;40;16
Speaker 3
But hey, you're going to do something with this. God, I don't know exactly what that is, but you can do something I by myself. I can't do anything with it.

00;35;40;19 - 00;35;40;28
Speaker 1
Right?

00;35;41;04 - 00;35;57;05
Speaker 2
It's so wild to me that in getting to know a little bit more about you and your job and listening to how you interact with everyone, whether they're Democrat or Republican, is, it's like, I feel like there's probably people that are like, I'm going to get into politics and I'm going to network with this guy, and then I'm going to do this for this guy and kind of that.

00;35;57;12 - 00;36;09;27
Speaker 2
And it seems like you've gotten as far as you have, and you've been reelected so many times, just by seeing everybody in the Capitol building as the image of Christ and just treating everyone Christ like, oh.

00;36;09;29 - 00;36;19;17
Speaker 3
Let's not make me out to be a saint, you know, there have been days where I have said things retreat is somebody in a, Christlike way.

00;36;19;19 - 00;36;19;27
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;36;19;28 - 00;36;30;11
Speaker 3
And unfortunately, they have shown me great mercy and forgiveness and allow me to continue to talk to them, to work with them, what have you. So, I mean, you know, it's not a place where there's perfect people because there's no perfect person.

00;36;30;17 - 00;36;30;27
Speaker 1
Right?

00;36;30;27 - 00;36;50;13
Speaker 3
And so we're all just trying to do our best. And I'm trying to recognize that whenever somebody does something that, that is harmful, hurtful to me, that, hey, they're they're having a moment. That's like the moment I had two days ago where I said something, did something I shouldn't have done that I wish, I wish I could have a take back, and that's that's the real thing, is trying to recognize you.

00;36;50;13 - 00;36;53;13
Speaker 3
If you ever want mercy and grace, you barely won't extend it to somebody.

00;36;53;14 - 00;37;14;24
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, that's it. I, I come from a 12 step program. I'm 37 years sober, and when I got there, they told me it's principles before personalities. So every time I'd complain about somebody to my sponsor, he goes, what do you care? It's a personality. It's the principles. And you're, you're you're you're you extend the same grace that has been extended to you.

00;37;14;28 - 00;37;26;18
Speaker 1
It's the first time I heard about it when I read about it, in the Bible years later, when I read that verse where Jesus said, be very careful, because what you use to judge another, I will use on you. Yeah.

00;37;26;18 - 00;37;27;16
Speaker 3
You're looking at.

00;37;27;18 - 00;37;28;11
Speaker 1
This as,

00;37;28;13 - 00;37;30;17
Speaker 3
You're looking at a log. You better look at the log in your eyes.

00;37;30;18 - 00;37;54;10
Speaker 1
That is pretty eye opening. Yeah. And, no pun intended. And as someone who has someone who has committed felonies and just didn't get caught, you know, I when it comes to extending grace to felons for voting, I'm. You're right there. Yeah, I know I, I was I performed at prisons. I talked about my addictions and stuff and, eye opening line was.

00;37;54;10 - 00;37;58;09
Speaker 1
But for the grace of God, I'd be sitting where you're at, you know, and,

00;37;58;11 - 00;37;59;25
Speaker 2
And they were like, wait, what about me?

00;37;59;25 - 00;38;29;07
Speaker 1
God, that's. But that's the but that's the, Holy Spirit on my best day prior to that, you know, I, I didn't see that. I couldn't see that, I was narrow minded enough to not know the depths of my depravity, you know, and then, so when you're working with 132 other. I mean, I can't imagine personalities.

00;38;29;09 - 00;38;38;00
Speaker 1
How do you keep it focused on the principle of what you're trying to get through legislatively or you're I mean, you're are you involved in legislation?

00;38;38;00 - 00;38;55;28
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. We've got we've got bills that we we support. We've got bills that we oppose. We've got bills we they ask other people to sponsor for us. It gets heated sometimes. Yeah. And and just try to recognize that, hey, regardless of what the other person and opposition to me is saying about me, I know who I am.

00;38;55;28 - 00;39;13;20
Speaker 3
I know what I'm about, I know what I'm trying to accomplish and just trying to get through that. And, you know, there have been some horrible things that have been posted about me, tweeted about me over the years and, and, and I just, you know, you tell yourself, hey, that's just not who I am. I mean, that might be that person impression of me.

00;39;13;23 - 00;39;24;06
Speaker 3
If I ever had the opportunity to sit down with that person, and I felt like they had an open mind and want to really hear from me. Glad to have that. But, you know, unfortunately, we also live in a world, too. Now, do your.

00;39;24;06 - 00;39;27;05
Speaker 1
Kids read any of them? And they're old enough now.

00;39;27;05 - 00;39;54;18
Speaker 3
Yeah, I've got a 22 year old, a 17 year old. So, you know, and my oldest was not really active on social media. He has a he is very much an old soul. He's, my children are believers, but never really got into social media and and consuming it that way. My youngest, you know, he's consumed a lot of social media and, and I think it's it's probably been harder on him.

00;39;54;20 - 00;39;57;16
Speaker 1
Do they talk about it at school as a, as a, you know.

00;39;57;18 - 00;40;11;24
Speaker 3
If they, if they do, you know, we don't he hasn't really mentioned that to me. But there are things, you know, even thinking about 2026 and past political opportunities. He's asked, you know, he he'll ask me questions and says, hey, I read this. What are you thinking?

00;40;11;24 - 00;40;14;13
Speaker 2
And can I ask it, are you running for governor?

00;40;14;15 - 00;40;15;04
Speaker 3
You know.

00;40;15;07 - 00;40;16;06
Speaker 2
I love that.

00;40;16;08 - 00;40;18;13
Speaker 3
You can ask that. I don't have to answer.

00;40;18;15 - 00;40;24;12
Speaker 1
No. Okay. No, I didn't even I wasn't even thinking of going there. Well, now I'm really.

00;40;24;15 - 00;40;41;18
Speaker 3
Honestly on what I'm trying to figure out is what am I supposed to do with the rest of my life? What am I supposed to do with the day? What what does God have planned for me the next year? What's left me to do? You know, and I think there's a lot left to do. I don't know if that's politically, you know, I don't know if there's something outside of politics or social to be doing.

00;40;41;18 - 00;41;04;01
Speaker 3
I really try each and every day to think about what am I supposed to be doing and what I'm trying to do. For right now, it's put one foot in front of the other every day and trying to go be the best secretary of state. I can be the best husband I can be, the best father I can be, and I'm trying to think about those things and hopeful that that I'm smart enough to realize when God slaps me upside the head, it said, hey, it was this.

00;41;04;01 - 00;41;17;01
Speaker 3
This is what you're supposed to go do. Yeah, because, you know, some of us are stupid enough, like me. I need to see. I need to see a ram stumbling out of the bush. Mean, I need that. I need a burning bush running across the interstate. Yeah. Do you give me a sign?

00;41;17;02 - 00;41;19;21
Speaker 2
Well, last week that was probably a possibility.

00;41;19;24 - 00;41;20;09
Speaker 1
Okay.

00;41;20;12 - 00;41;27;11
Speaker 3
So, you know, I think about that. We're fortunate that there's a lot of great people in this state who are capable of being governor.

00;41;27;13 - 00;41;28;00
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;41;28;03 - 00;41;29;10
Speaker 3
Who can go do a good job.

00;41;29;10 - 00;41;32;11
Speaker 2
It sounds like he's going to be governor or plant a church, right? It's like, I.

00;41;32;11 - 00;41;35;00
Speaker 1
Don't I can't tell. Is he going to be a.

00;41;35;02 - 00;41;40;25
Speaker 3
Well, what I would tell you what planning a church may be? Maybe a lot more kingdom focused than being governor. So, yeah.

00;41;40;25 - 00;41;41;09
Speaker 2
That's so.

00;41;41;09 - 00;41;54;25
Speaker 3
True. So, you know, that's really it. The the day, trying to figure out what God, what you do. And obviously a lot of times I don't always get it right. But you're trying to put your head to God's chance and figure out what his heartbeat is for you.

00;41;54;28 - 00;41;55;18
Speaker 2
Oh, I'm going to use.

00;41;55;24 - 00;41;56;17
Speaker 1
I like to.

00;41;56;20 - 00;42;17;24
Speaker 3
Be flattered if you did. I mean, and that's what you know. None of us get it right every day. Or every every hour even. But really, if you if you're trying to visualize that, in this moment. What what what? God want me to do? In the long term, I mean, what, you want me to open my heart to that I'm being calloused about?

00;42;17;26 - 00;42;22;05
Speaker 3
So, you know, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm just trying to grow up like everybody else.

00;42;22;05 - 00;42;38;23
Speaker 1
Yeah, we have a rule of three in our house. If we try to push our way through something and usually financially, we would try to, like, make some purchases and we get the door shut three times. We just. Okay. Yeah. Because the times we've pushed past it never ended well.

00;42;38;26 - 00;42;57;15
Speaker 2
We're actually all in the same scenario right now because you were talking about, oh. I wanted to be Secretary of State because I wanted to be home with my, children when they were younger. More I, I stopped stand up, which you guys know to be home with my son. He's moving out of stand up in time.

00;42;57;15 - 00;42;59;14
Speaker 2
He's on his farewell tour. Potentially?

00;42;59;14 - 00;43;03;27
Speaker 1
Not yet. Next year is my first farewell, farewell, farewell. First one.

00;43;03;29 - 00;43;04;20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I get it.

00;43;04;20 - 00;43;05;28
Speaker 1
We're going to do 3 or 4.

00;43;05;28 - 00;43;07;06
Speaker 3
It's more for the Rolling Stones.

00;43;07;06 - 00;43;11;04
Speaker 1
I it's everybody. Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, I'm just doing the first one.

00;43;11;09 - 00;43;30;18
Speaker 2
His wife Tammy is like I'd like to, you know, see you in my lifetime. Right. And so we're all kind of in the same where it's like, how do we build each other up and use our gifts that God has gifted us to help and serve the community in any way we can, but also put our family first and listen to that.

00;43;30;21 - 00;43;34;07
Speaker 2
And it's so difficult to have the discernment for that.

00;43;34;09 - 00;43;47;19
Speaker 1
Yeah, and not be selfish about it. You know? I mean, I love when someone says, God told me then, you know, go, boy, it sure worked out for you. Yeah. You left the debris behind you. The full family and I have a really good.

00;43;47;19 - 00;43;49;09
Speaker 3
Friend about who I have known for.

00;43;49;13 - 00;43;49;27
Speaker 1
For.

00;43;50;00 - 00;44;06;04
Speaker 3
30, 30 plus years, but I say 30 days, about 30 years that, you know, when people get right, run for office or say, well, you know, God really wants me to do this, and I and my Francis, why does God always tell people to run for jobs that pay $100,000.

00;44;06;09 - 00;44;07;03
Speaker 1
100,000.

00;44;07;04 - 00;44;10;02
Speaker 3
Dollars, but never tells it to run for town aldermen that pay a few hundred a.

00;44;10;02 - 00;44;11;01
Speaker 1
Year, right?

00;44;11;03 - 00;44;11;26
Speaker 3
Why is that.

00;44;12;03 - 00;44;13;00
Speaker 1
Right?

00;44;13;02 - 00;44;31;20
Speaker 2
I should maybe close on this, unless you have another question, Jeff. But I was wondering, because I don't really understand. All political stuff works. A lot of people think because I moved here on my Instagram presence, that I moved here because I'm thinking of Republican conserve. I moved here because people were nice and there was no trash everywhere.

00;44;31;21 - 00;44;54;19
Speaker 2
And they were just I wanted to raise my son here. So I want to get involved in, community. Like my community. I know I can make a difference there. So how would you recommend what boards do I go to? What do I start to not be a just help my community? How do I start? Where do people start that want to help their communities politically, whether it's the school or whatever?

00;44;54;19 - 00;45;11;27
Speaker 3
So so politically, I tell people that, you know, start off by talking your local alderman or your county commissioner and just telling him, saying, hey, I have a heart for this. Whether it's parks, whether it's, if you have a passion for waste water.

00;45;11;29 - 00;45;13;28
Speaker 1
You know what? If you have a passion for.

00;45;14;02 - 00;45;15;28
Speaker 3
It, go to say, hey, I think I'm good at this.

00;45;15;29 - 00;45;26;06
Speaker 1
So if somebody's watching us going, that's great, I could well be praying like this one, right? This is my this is it wastewater. I think I couldn't put words to talk.

00;45;26;06 - 00;45;34;22
Speaker 3
Them and said, hey, I'm interested plugging in. And here are things I like. Here are things I don't like. If you see an opportunity for me to plug in, let me know.

00;45;34;28 - 00;45;37;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, I've just had to do what an alderman is, but I'll figure out.

00;45;37;15 - 00;45;39;10
Speaker 3
Typically, an alderman is like a city councilman.

00;45;39;10 - 00;45;41;14
Speaker 1
Well, in Chicago, that's pretty powerful.

00;45;41;15 - 00;45;49;03
Speaker 3
You know? And, you know, and if that person never calls you back or doesn't really follow up, you know, go see another county commissioner.

00;45;49;06 - 00;45;49;15
Speaker 1
That whole.

00;45;49;16 - 00;45;50;28
Speaker 3
Process or go see the mayor.

00;45;50;29 - 00;45;54;19
Speaker 1
I mean, while not too powerful, but yeah. Chicago. Yeah. A little.

00;45;54;19 - 00;45;56;10
Speaker 3
Difference between all of Chicago and.

00;45;56;17 - 00;46;00;20
Speaker 2
Well, that's not fair. When they get caught in Chicago, they get moved to a whole.

00;46;00;20 - 00;46;02;13
Speaker 1
And they can move to a whole.

00;46;02;15 - 00;46;18;21
Speaker 3
So, I mean, I tell people that I may and you may wind up getting an evening to tell the mayor your town said, hey, or city manager. I love the circle of board. If you think they're I know you're always looking for people who are willing to serve on these unpaid boards, but I can do research. I'm willing to study.

00;46;18;27 - 00;46;27;29
Speaker 3
I want to make good, intelligent decisions. You know, how how can I help move the city or how can I help lead this county forward? Yeah. You know, look, for things like that.

00;46;28;01 - 00;46;29;13
Speaker 2
I'm going to get my alderman.

00;46;29;15 - 00;46;50;29
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, we have a guy at our church that I got to know very well. He was running for city commissioner and Fairview, and, I said, that's great. I mean, that's basically a volunteer job. I mean, you're not making any money on it, and it's, it's a I want to give back. And, I've, I just, you know, travel too much.

00;46;50;29 - 00;47;16;14
Speaker 1
But again, I'm, I'm kind of in your boat. I'm 68 years old. I've been doing this for 40 whatever years. I'm. What is the next five years? Looked like this when I called Carolyn about doing the podcast. Was like, at least we can maybe, we'll see where this goes. But, I, I do want to see my wife, and I do want to spend time with her and.

00;47;16;16 - 00;47;17;24
Speaker 2
Not just next to her plot.

00;47;18;01 - 00;47;39;25
Speaker 1
Right. Well, that's what you know. And she is, She's pretty direct, you know, like, I have a a gene that it's a precursor to Alzheimer's and sugar feeds it. So every time I have a cookie, she goes on, it's okay. You don't remember your grandchildren's names. That's a no no. It's so.

00;47;39;27 - 00;47;48;17
Speaker 3
I. I want to correct you on some. I did not go from the legislature. The secretary of State's office. I actually retired and went back to private sector full time. Really? And didn't think I was going to return.

00;47;48;21 - 00;47;49;09
Speaker 1
Really.

00;47;49;11 - 00;47;49;22
Speaker 3
I was what.

00;47;49;22 - 00;47;50;23
Speaker 2
Were you doing in the private sector?

00;47;50;23 - 00;48;10;08
Speaker 3
I was I was vice president of a publicly traded company. Oh, wow. That's really exciting. I know, and really thought I was done with politics and got a phone call from Lieutenant governor's chief of staff. Several conversations occur, and they asked me to come back into an appointed role that he appointed, confirmed by the legislature. And I really thought, hey, I've got a six year term.

00;48;10;08 - 00;48;15;18
Speaker 3
I've just got to do that and I'll go back to the private sector. And, about 11 months later, I became secretary of state.

00;48;15;20 - 00;48;20;16
Speaker 2
So how did that if we if we have time. I know you're on a oh, we're on a time crunch.

00;48;20;16 - 00;48;21;28
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.

00;48;22;01 - 00;48;26;18
Speaker 2
Well, what how do you want to close us up?

00;48;26;20 - 00;48;29;25
Speaker 1
What do you got? So anyways, this year, last term.

00;48;29;28 - 00;48;31;14
Speaker 3
I just got reelected.

00;48;31;17 - 00;48;33;09
Speaker 1
So that's right, because you say when.

00;48;33;16 - 00;48;34;13
Speaker 3
So I'm still going.

00;48;34;13 - 00;48;35;06
Speaker 1
To be midterm.

00;48;35;10 - 00;48;37;00
Speaker 3
We've still got 40 plus months.

00;48;37;00 - 00;48;37;27
Speaker 1
And you got a new governor.

00;48;37;27 - 00;48;39;06
Speaker 3
Left in this one. So.

00;48;39;09 - 00;48;44;24
Speaker 2
And I'm dying to know how you became. Is it quick. Can you share it quick. How you ended up Secretary.

00;48;44;27 - 00;49;02;00
Speaker 3
Yeah. Just real quick. You know, I had several friends who were in the legislature who said, hey, we'd like you'd be a great secretary of state if we get control, the legislature. Republicans gain control of the legislature in November 2008. And, there's a lot more to the story. But the other day, I want to win in that race.

00;49;02;04 - 00;49;08;20
Speaker 3
And I said, hey, if you think I'm the best person for the job, then vote for me. You think you can hire somebody else to do it better? You should vote for them.

00;49;08;23 - 00;49;09;18
Speaker 1
Yeah, and it.

00;49;09;18 - 00;49;10;08
Speaker 3
All worked out.

00;49;10;11 - 00;49;24;22
Speaker 2
I love that. Okay. So one people will it'll be listed where people can find you. And then I, you gave me you and another senator gave me the most beautiful Capitol tour ever. And your wife was there. Can people tour the Capitol?

00;49;24;22 - 00;49;32;03
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. They can tour the Capitol. It's open every business day. Tours at nine, ten, 11, one, two and three. It's open to the public, free of charge.

00;49;32;03 - 00;49;35;08
Speaker 2
And can't they come watch Congress do their thing.

00;49;35;10 - 00;49;43;16
Speaker 3
Then come watch the Senate. They do have a ticketing process in the House now, but certainly they they're welcome to go and watch the proceedings. I can watch committees, I can watch and for China watch.

00;49;43;16 - 00;49;44;16
Speaker 1
Your government at.

00;49;44;16 - 00;49;57;16
Speaker 3
Work. Yeah, yeah. And when people watch that too, I think they're going to be pleasantly surprised how few things write down on Partizan issues. There are so many decisions each and every day that Republicans and Democrats work together to find the right solution.

00;49;57;16 - 00;49;59;29
Speaker 1
All right, but that doesn't make news.

00;49;59;29 - 00;50;02;06
Speaker 3
No, that's a man bites dog story, right?

00;50;02;08 - 00;50;03;21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00;50;03;23 - 00;50;05;15
Speaker 1
Well, thank you so much for coming in. Hey.

00;50;05;15 - 00;50;07;10
Speaker 3
My privilege Joe. Thank you. Nice to meet you.

00;50;07;11 - 00;50;08;13
Speaker 1
Nice to meet you as well.

00;50;08;13 - 00;50;09;14
Speaker 3
I thank you, Carolyn.

00;50;09;19 - 00;50;10;27
Speaker 2
So good to see you again.

00;50;10;27 - 00;50;11;27
Speaker 1
She's a fan girl.

00;50;12;00 - 00;50;14;27
Speaker 2
I am really so funny. I love.

00;50;15;00 - 00;50;19;26
Speaker 3
This word. This is the death of your podcast with me on it. So I'm looking for the reason we.

00;50;19;26 - 00;50;21;00
Speaker 1
Haven't killed it by now.

00;50;21;00 - 00;50;24;06
Speaker 3
I look for the rebound, the next one after me.

00;50;24;08 - 00;50;26;22
Speaker 2
No. You're amazing. This is so fun.

00;50;26;25 - 00;50;33;19
Speaker 1
Thank you so much. And, we need you to subscribe wherever that is. Hit the subscribe button.

00;50;33;19 - 00;50;35;02
Speaker 2
Yeah, we're trying to retire.

00;50;35;03 - 00;50;52;05
Speaker 1
We need you to download it. That's important. It changes the algorithm. Download it. We don't even care if you listen to it. Just download it. Give it a five star review. Because you know. And I know nobody likes a whiner. Okay, so give it a five star review and God bless you guys. Be safe and we will see you next week.

00;50;52;08 - 00;50;52;29
Speaker 1
God bless you.