EP 13 Ama Ata Aidoo - Writing the People's Dilemma I Women And Resistance 🌍

In this episode, host Adesoji Iginla engages with renowned Ghanaian author and feminist Ama Ata Aidoo (played by Aya Fubara Eneli, Esq.), exploring her life, literary contributions, and activism. 

Aidoo reflects on her upbringing in a matrilineal society, the importance of education, and her experiences with colonialism and neocolonialism. 

She emphasises the need for women to support each other and the significance of cultural identity in the face of oppression. 

The conversation culminates in a reading of Aidoo's poetry, highlighting her enduring legacy in African literature and feminist discourse.

Takeaways
*Ama Ata Aidoo is a pioneering African woman dramatist.
*Education was a crucial part of Aidoo's upbringing.
*Aidoo's father advocated for equal education for boys and girls.
*She faced challenges in her marriage but remained focused on her career.
*Aidoo's work critiques colonialism and neocolonialism.
*She emphasises the importance of cultural identity in education.
*Aidoo founded the Mbassem Foundation to support African women writers.
*Her literary contributions include plays, poetry, and novels.
*Aidoo's feminism advocates for women's rights and empowerment.
*Community building is essential for resistance and activism.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview of the Series
00:55 Early Life and Cultural Background
02:47 Education and the Importance of Writing
05:41 Career Beginnings and Feminist Ideology
09:39 Political Involvement and Exile Experiences
12:34 Literary Contributions and Advocacy for Women
15:32 Reflections on Colonialism and Neocolonialism
19:26 Cultural Identity and the Role of Education
23:07 Feminism and Gender Roles in Society
27:13 Legacy and Continued Activism
30:56 Poetry Reading and Closing Thoughts

Welcome  to Women and Resistance, a powerful podcast where we honour the courage, resilience, and revolutionary spirit of women across the globe. Hosted by Aya Fubara Eneli Esq and Adesoji Iginla...

You're listening to Women and Resistance with Aya Fubara Eneli Esq and Adesoji Iginla—where we honour the voices of women who have shaped history through courage and defiance...Now, back to the conversation.

That’s it for this episode of Women and Resistance. Thank you for joining us in amplifying the voices of women who challenge injustice and change the course of history. Be sure to subscribe, share, and continue the conversation. Together We Honour the past, act in the present, and shape the future. Until next time, stay inspired and stay in resistance!

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.538)
Yes. Greetings, greetings and welcome to another episode of Women and Resistance. I am your host, Adesuji Iginla. And with me as usual, is my co-host, my sister from Another Mother, the author of Self-Love Revolution, Ayafubara Nyerli Esquire. How are you, sister? Thank you. I am doing well. How are you? I am fine. It burning hot here, but that is okay.

Yeah. Better hold down cold, better hold down cold. Better hold down cold. Yeah. I'll take the heat. So speaking of the series so far, just before we begin next week, we'll be looking at that. We'll be reviewing the women we've done in the, in the 12 weeks preceding. So, for this, yeah, 12 weeks preceding. Yes. So this is the second group of 12, 24 episodes in.

And so for this week, we're going to be looking at the lives and times of, it's difficult to describe her. What else can be said about her? things first, who is she and where is she from? Who am I and where am I from? I am from the area in Africa called Ghana. I was born back in 1942. And some of you may have people who are still alive.

I have joined the ancestral realm, but I lived my life fully while I was here. My life, how will I even start to talk about my life now? There's so much that... Let's begin in terms of your parents. Usually that's the roots. So who are your parents? My parents. It brings back a lot of memories, even to ask me that question.

because my parents were a different kind of people and the way they raised me and what I was able to do was as a result of everything that they poured into me. I should start with my grandfather. My grandfather was actually killed fighting colonialism. I was born on March 23rd, 1942.

Adesoji Iginla (02:25.482)
in a place that they called Salt Pond in the Gold Coast. Of course, that is not. Those are not our names. Those are the names that the colonizers who are still there to self-degree. And even if they're not there physically, they're still meddling in our affairs. I was born into the Fante Royal household. And my father was Nana Yafama.

chief of Abiyadi Kiasko. And my mother was Mame Abasema. I was actually born a twin. My twin brother was Kwame Atta. But neocolonial forces killed my grandfather and that deeply, deeply influenced my family and me in terms of our emphasis on education and also coupled with cultural

consciousness and I have to make the distinction because the education was you must learn the Western ways so that you can fight but not abandon who you are culturally. So being born into this Fante Royal household, I got to learn of my culture in a very intimate way, but my father was one of

those very visionary men who understood the importance of both male and female getting educated. Back then, many times families will make the decision that only the male should get quote unquote a formal education, a Western education. And the woman will kind of be left to just be child bearers and rare-ers. But my father...

insisted on all of the young people in our area getting even that Western education as well. And so initially when I was a child, there was no school, you know, Western-style school in our area. We have to walk a long way to get to school. And my father made it possible for there to be a school in our community so that all the children had

Adesoji Iginla (04:52.694)
relatively easy access. And there was no distinction when I was growing up between me and my brother. In fact, it wasn't until I went to the university and I started to see the distinctions that I even realized that in this world, people had the notion that women were somehow inferior or should not aspire to be everything that they

could possibly be how they were made by their creator. So education was a very important piece of my growing up. So after my initial education at the elementary, primary level, I went to the Cape Coast and I attended Wesley Girls High School where I discovered my passion for writing.

You know, there's so much power in words. Yes, we need engineers. Yes, we need doctors. Yes, we need all kinds of people with all kinds of education. But that part of being able to think, to read, and to write, to put your thoughts down was instilled in me at a young age. And so I attended Wesley Girls High School from 1857.

And by 1961, I enrolled at the University of Ghana, Ghana. And there I earned a Bachelor of Arts in English in 1964. I also wrote my first play, which was staged in March of 1964 at the university and then was published in 1965. That first play was called The Dilemma of a Ghost.

Then, like I said, it was published in 1965. And you would not believe this, but that made me the first African woman dramatist to be published in English. Now, I make that distinction to be published in English because it's not like women had not been creating dramas, no folk tales, the ways that we had our cultural displays. We'd been doing that, but in terms of

Adesoji Iginla (07:16.706)
Being published in English, I was the first African woman dramatist to be published in English. Didn't stop my education there. Even though there were whispers of, you're a woman, you don't want to get too much education because then you will scare men away. So I did marry quite all right. I married in the sixties. I don't talk too much about the marriage because again, a woman is a human being.

full human being when she is born. She does not only become somebody because she's somebody's wife or somebody's daughter, you know? And so I got married. That marriage did not last long, so we will not talk too much about it. And I did have my child. I had one child, one daughter, who carries on my legacy today. So I now went, my husband was a lawyer.

We left Ghana and I went to Stanford University in 1970 where I earned a master's degree in English aided by a creative writing fellowship. I have to tell this story. It's important to tell this story. At that

It was like they would find what they considered the best and brightest minds and they would pretty much just throw money and fellowships for us, at us, you know, to pay for the plane ticket, to pay for our tuition, where we were going and so on and so forth. And so I got, I went to Stanford University in 1970 and I got this creative writing fellowship.

And then I subsequently returned to Ghana. After returning to Ghana, I taught at the University of Ghana in the Institute of African Studies and also at the University of Cape Coast, eventually rising to the rank of professor and doing my very best to shape the minds of our young people that were being assaulted.

Adesoji Iginla (09:29.858)
by this notion that we imbibed through our Western education. So we got the education to be able to fight back. But the very education that we were seeking actually turned us against ourselves. You've been co-opted to the bidet. we started to imbibe this idea of we're not good enough. You you read these major writers from the West.

who, you know, ascribed us to like less than animals, that we did not even have the intelligence of monkeys. So how do you get educated, but at the same time you are learning. Education is supposed to develop you, bring out the best of you. But that educational process is teaching you that you are nothing unless you empty yourself out and take on what they're giving you.

So not developing what's inside you, but empty yourself, take on what they're giving you, which tells you you are inferior and that to progress, you have to embrace everything that is foreign to you, that is alien to you. So in 1982, I was appointed as secretary for education under Ghana's PNDC military government.

Jerry Rollins. Which was led by a man that you may have heard of, Jerry Rollins. Lieutenant General Rollins, yeah. At that point, I became the first woman in that post, but I did not last long in that post. Because like my father, my idea was education should not be the purview of just a few. It should be something that is made available free to everybody. Every child should have an opportunity.

to develop themselves. Well, apparently for some people that was too radical of an idea. And so I lasted about a year in that formation as the Secretary of Education. How are you going to be the Secretary of Education? Of course, a form of government was very much not based on our own cultural consciousness, but on copying the West.

Adesoji Iginla (11:55.758)
And then in that position, when I say free education for everybody, that is too novel of an idea. And so I ended up resigning from that position in 1983. And I felt that Ghana at that period was not a place where I could actively be myself and speak my mind freely without repercussions.

That could even include death. And so I entered into a self-imposed exile in Zimbabwe. I heard at the beginning you were talking about you've been covering a lot of women. How many of those women experienced this same exile that I'm going to talk about? Maybe imposed on them or sometimes just out of self-preservation. We had to leave the place that we called home.

the place that we wanted to build, the place that we wanted to make improvements on. It's a very painful experience. But I went to Zimbabwe, which at that point had really taken off in terms of trying to break away from their own colonial beginnings. At one point it was called Rhodesia.

And anyone who wants to know what is the, what, you know, again, the power of words, where did that name come from? If people come in where people we have our own names and then they impose something else on us. It was named after a very evil man that all your listeners, your viewers should know about. Cecil wrote. And so this place was now called Rhodesia after him.

But while I was there, the Zimbabwean government embraced me. I worked in their curriculum development unit of their ministry of education. And I contributed to the Zimbabwe Women's Writers Group. And while I was in Zimbabwe, I really focused on publishing, writing and publishing children and poetry books. Later, I left and I taught as a visiting professor in the United States and in Kenya.

Adesoji Iginla (14:11.732)
And I held another scholarship from, again, the West. I was awarded a Fulbright scholarship in 1988. Again, just funding sources. You always have to question where your funds come from and their motivation for providing those funds. I also then became a writer in residence.

at the University of Richmond in 1989. And I even taught at the Hamilton College in the early and mid-90s, 1990s. And then from 2004, 2011, I was a visiting professor in Africana Studies at Brown University. Of course, again, your viewer should understand the interconnections.

because we had an Africana studies at Brown University because of the agitation of African-American students and African students who said, we cannot just come to these universities to imbibe your information, to learn to hate ourselves. We want to study our own history as well. I chaired the Ghana Association of Writers Book Festival.

from its start in 2011. And then I went on to serve as the patron of the Etisalat Prize for Literature. It's now known as the Nine Mobile Prize, which was initiated in 2013. And I was awarded the Aido Snyder Book Prize for African women's writing, obviously named in my honor as well.

So some of my publications that your listeners may be aware of and if they're not, then I'm making them aware of them now, even though some of them were published, you know, relatively, you can say a long time ago. I believe that the themes are still very relevant today. So I published the Dilemma of a Ghost, the play that I talked to you about. That was in 1905. Then I published Anowa.

Adesoji Iginla (16:32.052)
a play that was based on Ghanaian folklore. Because like I said, we have been traditions, maybe not written in English, maybe not written at all, but we come from a very rich culture. our folk tales, our folklore was a way of passing on knowledge from generation to generation. So that one was published in 1970.

Then I had a collection of short stories that I also published in 1970 called No Sweetness Here. And one of my favorite books, somewhat autobiographical, was Our Sister Kill Joy. This is one of the earlier publications of it, if you can see this, published by the Long Man African Classic.

This was a time when you can see the paper, the sheets are very yellowed now. We read that. Yes. This was a time when again, the colonizers, because they don't do anything out of the goodness of their hearts. Let's just establish that right now. But they found out we can exploit these writers. You know, yes, I'm grateful for being published.

But we can create a new market or we can tap into a new market of African writers writing their own stories that we sell back to them and we most of the money. they told me that my books were sold all over the world. But ask me, why am I still poor? Why am I still going around having to work in places for all the books that I sold? Then I published that Sister Killjoy.

or Reflections from a Black-Eyed Squint. It was a novel published in 1977. Then I now published Someone Talking to Some Time. It was a collection of poems. Published that in 1986. And then also in 1986, this was during my time in Zimbabwe, I published The Eagle and The Chickens and other stories. These were all children's stories.

Adesoji Iginla (18:47.182)
I also published Birds and Other Poems in 1987. Then 1991, I published Changes, a love story. And here is an older, there are iterations of it, but this is an older copy version again. can see again the yellow pages on this. Yes, yes. This one was published in 1991.

And it won the Commonwealth Writers Prize in Africa in 1992. I was not done writing. I also published in 1997 through Heinemann African Writers Series. Again, ask me where the money is. I published The Girl Who Can and other stories. And then in 2006, I edited African Love Stories.

We are full, complete human beings. In fact, it annoys me to even have to say that. Because who in their humanity has to now come out and every day try to prove their humanity? Except for people who their very humanity is being challenged by the second, by these colonizers. We too love...

And our love is as varied and as deep and as high and as low as anybody else's love. We have all, everything, we encompass everything. So that was published in 2006. And then in 2012, I also published Diplomatic Pounds and Other Stories. These are fairly easy reads, something that you can have by your nightstand before you go to sleep. You read a story, you get some understanding.

So as I mentioned before, husband, I married one time, I did not marry again. For reasons that you can probably figure out if you read my books. But I was married to Kofiakko, who was a Ghanaian lawyer and then a politician. And my daughter is Kina Likimani, who was born 1969 in Nairobi, because I was in Kenya at the time.

Adesoji Iginla (21:05.936)
And I raised Kina largely as a single mother. Did not spend my breath, you know, wasting my breath discussing the specifics of my marriage. was not too important. There are many awards that have come my way. I would just get this out of the way and then we can really talk about my work and my writing and the message that I believe still is of very great relevance today.

So I got the Embare Club Prize in 1962 for my short story No Sweetness Here. I also was awarded the Nelson Mandela Prize for poetry for someone talking to some time. That award came in 1987. And then the Commonwealth, as I said, the Commonwealth Writers Prize, Africa Region in 1992 for changes.

My play, Anoa, was listed among Zimbabwe's Africa's 100 Best Books of the 20th Century at the Zimbabwe International Book Fair in 2002. I was also the subject of a documentary, I think that documentary was in 2014, The Art of Ama'ata Aido. And my niece, Yababado, she's the one who...

put that together as very strong women that we raised, you know? In 2002 was when I founded the Mbassim Foundation in Accra with my daughter to support African women writers. Because let me tell you, life has not been easy for African women. Now having said that, it hasn't been easy for women all over the world either.

So I don't want it to seem that as they would like to say, the Afghan woman is so wretched. We're no more wretched than any other group of women because patriarchy is a poison that flows freely throughout all the world that came into Africa and upended some of our traditions, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (23:20.566)
And now African men are carrying that patriarchy on their heads. And if you read my books again, you will see that theme of this struggle that women have not just against African women have not just against colonialism and neocolonialism, but also now within their community, within their very homes, that issue of gender and gender roles and identity.

and the impact of patriarchy on it. And so that was the reason that we started the Ambassador Foundation to support African women writers, to encourage African women to write our own stories, to give, to share our own perspectives on any manner of topics. And then of course, in March of 2017,

They launched the Ama Ata Aido Center for Creative Writing at the AUCC in Accra. Of course, named obviously in my honor. I was most definitely a critic of post-colonial governance and nationalism. I believed and continue to believe in African identity and that that African identity must be centered in intellectual and cultural life. It can be

I learned this and I'm this over here. And then it's this other thing on the side over here. African identity must be the center. It should be the foundation upon which we build anything else. And so, like I shared, when I tried those reforms in the education ministry under Jerry Rollins and they were blocked left, right and center, I resigned from that post. I am.

I believe and I know this to be true even amongst my detractors. I am respected for my outspokenness on feminism. Now I can give you my definition of feminism because you know, when people use terms, it's important to define what those terms are. Feminism for me, it's an ideology. You know, it's an ideology that means that anybody can be a feminist and should be.

Adesoji Iginla (25:39.548)
Because everybody should be okay. They should be settled. They should be fine with women being their full selves, being their whole beings. That is all that means to me. I don't know how other people define it. I'm not struggling with anybody beyond that. Everyone should embrace the right for women to accomplish at whatever levels they're capable of, just like men do.

white men, of course, in particular. So very outspoken, I was very outspoken on feminism, which did not endear me to both men and women, because let me explain this for you. Any oppressed class, when you study it, one of the reasons they are oppressed is that they participate in their own oppression. And so what you would see is that even amongst women, the white oppressors,

Patriarchy is so heavy and is so interwoven now into all aspects of our existence that women themselves have a problem with fighting against what has been presented as the way things should be. So when you are a woman that is saying, no, the way things are is not the only way it should be. There are different ways.

Then you become a threat even to women who are saying, you're a troublemaker. Why are you, you know, trying to use a Western euphemism, trying to upset the apocryphal? Just follow along and know your place, you know? And I was never one to allow other people to determine what my place should be. I also was very outspoken against anti-imperialism. I spoke up against imperialism.

and of course preached what should be the religion, if you will, the theology of African autonomy. What group of people do not want to be autonomous? My views sometimes challenged both traditional and Western paradigms because wherever it was coming from to make women less than who we are capable of being, I was going to challenge it.

Adesoji Iginla (28:04.4)
And of course, this engendered some very vigorous intellectual debates. And in some places, the doors were open and in some places, the doors were, they attempted to nail the door shut. When I think about women's, African women's marginalization, you know, one of the things I've said is that the decay of Africa's social, political, and economic systems is directly related to the complete

marginalization of women from developmental discourses. So you have a group of people who make up arguably at least half of the population. then when it comes to any conversation on how we develop, how we move forward, you leave their voices, you leave their perspectives, you leave their, their input out. How is that supposed to work? When I wrote my book, Sister Killjoy,

I very much critiqued Africans who lose their cultural memory when they're educated abroad. But here is the tragedy. son. Now we don't even have to go abroad to lose our cultural identity. So this Western education has so seeped into our psyche that the elites perpetuate our own inferiority. And so now instead of eating fufu with my hand, if I eat it with my hand, I'm,

I'm an animal. I must eat with fork and knife. I can't with fork and knife, yes? No problem with that. But why does one have to be seen as better than the other? When if we really do a critique, you understand the intimacy of taking in food. If you're now afraid of your own hand touching your food and touching your mouth, and you need some external object,

It's symbolic of our issues. So I very much challenged, and this might be a challenge to you because I understand you are based in the UK. I very much challenged my brothers and sisters who would go and get the white man's education and then abandon everything that their people stood for in total, completely.

Adesoji Iginla (30:29.15)
And you now want to out white the white man. And then you bring those ideas, if you bother to come back, you bring them back and poison the waters where we are. And you wonder why Africa is still not liberated today. Well, before I take your questions, and I want to read some of my poems to you as well. I made my transition to the ancestral realm where I continue to fight.

Um, 31st, 2023, I was at the young age of 81. And it's such an ironic thing that the very government that at one point did not value me and my message. Now honored me with a state funeral. You know, now they're going to embrace me daughter of Ghana, one of our own and

My services were even televised from July 13 to July 15, three days. I laid in state in my hometown in Abiazikiako, and then my burial following a Thanksgiving church service was held on July 16th of 2023. And I am buried in my hometown community, resting with my ancestors, although many of us are not at rest.

We are fighting because there's so much to, to, huh. You know, I had, as I shared briefly a little bit, I had many lectures and lectures. I had many residencies in American institutions. I, including the University of California, Smith College and Mount Holyoke. These appointments were very helpful since I did not see the money from my books. And they allowed me.

to be in a position to mentor students, to mentor African students wherever the boat had dropped us off or whether we had stayed in our countries and now traveled, but to be a mentor to the students, to share African feminist and post-colonial thoughts, and of course, to continue my writing. I did not live in Europe necessarily.

Adesoji Iginla (32:47.058)
But I traveled extensively for literary festivals, for conferences, for speaking engagements. And I participated in many lectures, many panels, even across the UK and continental Europe, particularly in support of African literature and feminist discourse. But in the early 2000s, I returned to Ghana to live permanently.

after my many years of sojourn in what we call the abroad. And in Ghana, I was able to return to my culture, to my life in a more meaningful way to continue my cultural work and my education activism, because what are you if you are not building at home? So if you will permit me, I want to... Shut up and read.

I'll share some of my poems. This is from the African Poetry Book Series. This one is called After the Ceremonies, New and Selected Poems. And let me read some and then we can be in conversation and you can ask me any questions. There are so many poems that, many of my poems are a little long.

So I, I try to choose some that are not too long for your, your, your audience at this time. So my understanding is you have at one point reviewed a woman who was very dear to me. Her name was Bessie Head. And so I'm, going to read a poem that I wrote for Bessie Head and it is titled for Bessie Head. Bessie Head's life really ca-

It shows a lot of the struggles of African women on our own continent. Any of you viewers who did not follow along when you did that, you need to go back and not only hear what you shared, but read her words for herself, for yourself as well. So to begin with, there's a small problem of address. Calling you.

Adesoji Iginla (35:05.33)
by the only name some of us knew you by. Hailing you by titles you could not possibly have cared for. Referring you to strange and clouded origins that eat into our past, our pain, like prize-winning cassava tubers in abandoned harvest fields. Some of us never met you, and who would believe that?

but those who know the tragedies of our land, where non-meetings, visions on opening, and other such abortions are early and everyday reality. To continue a confession of sorts, Miss Head will just not do. Bessie, too familiar. Bessie Head.

Your face swims into focus through soft clouds of cigarette smoke and from behind the much harder barriers erected by some quite unbelievable 20th century philosophy. Saying more of your strength than all the tales would have us think for the moment. For the moment we fear and dare not accept that given how things are, poetry

almost becomes dirges and not much more. But we hold on to knowing, knowing ourselves as daughters of dark-light women who are so used to life, giving it, feeding it. Death was always quite unwelcome. Taking them by surprise, an evil peevish brat to be flattered, cleaned, oiled, pomaded, overdressed,

and perfumed, we fear to remember. Fatigued as we are by so much death and dying, and the need to bury and to mourn, Bessie heard. Such a fresh ancestors. If you chance on a rainy night to visit, if you chance on a sunny day to pass by, look in to see how well we do.

Adesoji Iginla (37:28.348)
How hard we fight. How loud we scream. Against the plot. To kill our souls, our bodies too. To take our land and feed us shit. Turn benevolently. Dear Fresh Spirit. That rejoining the others. You can tell them that now more than ever, do we need the support?

the energy to create, recreate, celebrate nothing more. Absolutely nothing less. And I will share one more. This one is titled, A Question from the Expatriate Community. To Kari Dako for her good natured cynicism and Kina for her educated.

Propose or something other that I cannot remember and smug in the plans for our own future. He had asked me, with a frankness born of long friendship and short memory, deliberately cultured, whether I can see myself growing old here. And I remember you and your clear views on Ghanaian

emigres the whole world over. Forever postponing life and living as we ready ourselves for a beckoning old age. When as elders of the clan and our hairs died beyond infant black, we shall sit after a little something in the morning, a little something at noon, a little something in the evening.

cared by siblings and other ancillary brothers and sisters who could never have done as well as we, since they stayed at home and held with due respect in the caring arms of their offspring, our grateful nieces and nephews to whom we dispense our black market-supported favors and wisdoms. Both the hard currency and the experience

Adesoji Iginla (39:51.812)
acquired from unspeakable humiliations in other people's lands. We shall try then not to remember the daily insults, promotions denied, our children having to move to harsher climates in pursuit of education. Since as the dependents of foreigners forget how high their grades or how keen their desire, they simply cannot get into the army.

or schools for would-be doctors, engineers, lawyers, our wife. The list of exclusions in these foreign lands is very long. But mind you, all Africans treat all other Africans from beyond their borders like shit or at best as floatsum and jetsum. My friend, where were you all the time?

I was asking if you can see yourself growing old here. In my mind's eye, the image of me as the adored elder of the clan recedes, I do not tell my friend what I am thinking, that if what I am feeling now is not old age already, then frankly, it signifies little where the real thing finds me. I shall be beyond caring.

an unprepared, unsecured wanderer. In any case, remind her such questions are meaningless for those who are not at all sure they have a choice. I will stop there. The two poems you read, the words are... Can you speak up a little bit? I can't hear you so well. I said the two words. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay. So the two poems you read are powerful...

Because in the beginning, you said something along the lines of choosing names, being called names that you have no powers in doing so. So that will form the basis of my first question, which is when you- didn't tell you, you know, my name was Christina. Which is what I was coming to. Okay. Okay. Okay. Ask your question then. So I noticed when you started publishing with Dilemma of a Ghost,

Adesoji Iginla (42:18.347)
The name you published or the pseudonym you went on that was Christina Amah Aito Aido. Yes. But over times, Christina made almost a... to go. Was that a conscious decision? Absolutely it was a conscious decision. The more I learned about our colonizers, the more it made no sense to me that we have our own names with our own meaning.

tied to our own culture, and then we abandon those names or add those names to the names that will make us more acceptable. Who am I trying to prove myself to? Christina? No. I gave that name up and I focused on a name that reflected my cultural heritage, even as they do. I have no problem with anybody's names. They answered John or Peter.

or Svetlana, whatever they answer. Why can we not answer our own names? Why are we the ones? And the Asians do this too. Colonized people do this. You want to be accepted. And you think that the more you give up of yourself, the more they will accept you. But let me tell you about these people. In case anybody is still unaware. In the 500 plus year history.

What these people do is they take and they take and they take, they take everything. They take our food, they take our cocoa, they take our rubber, they take our gold, they take our diamonds, they take our plutonium, they take our timber. Where will Europe and the West be without all the things they have looted from Africa? Where?

You want to call us third world and underdeveloped. Where would they be without all the things that they have taken and continue to take? And they were not content with that. Then they had to take our bodies. And if we allow them, they will take our souls. Now they have taken our memories. The reason why I write, we must remember.

Adesoji Iginla (44:42.017)
They take your memory. are you a zombie? You just do their bidding. That and this. Listen, you can compromise with these people. There's no insatiable. A pit that can never be filled is what they are. There's no level of they will take to one level and then they will say, okay, let's remain this part for you. You have this part of any of your things and even of yourself.

They want to own you completely and everything. How can you embrace that and buy into that? I had to give up Christina. Yes. It was a very conscious decision. Okay. you, mean, with the last quote you gave explanation, you talked on the next part I was going into, which was neocolonialism. You made mention of the fact that at some point you had to leave Ghana and make your way to Zimbabwe.

Yes. Did you experience the pressures of new colonialism in Zimbabwe whilst you were there? Is there a place on the face of this earth where you will not experience the greed of white people? Is there, is there, is there a place? Even the people minding their business in the Amazon forest, they've gone there to bother them as well. I'm telling you that there's not.

Yes, for a country that had been previously named Rhodesia. Yes, of course. But you find ways to still try to work. Cause what will you do? Will you abandon your people? You try to find ways to still figure out places where you can work, where you can help us to remember, where others can help you to remember. We have forgotten so much, my brother. And that is, that is a very, that

Physical death is not the issue. We are living and dead spiritually. Off, like that fork and knife. from the very thing that would feed our bodies and our souls and our spirits. So yes, Rhodesia was a place of refuge for some time from the very repressive regime of Jerry Rawlings. Yes, he had some good points and some things that he did, but,

Adesoji Iginla (47:07.745)
This tendency for autocracy, this tendency of patriarchy to again, similarly to how neocolonialism, colonialism, colonizers take from us, then our men now want to subjugate and marginalize and crush women and fit us into their very narrow

ideas of who we should be and what we could be. But there were still issues in Zimbabwe as there continue to be issues all over the continent of Africa and everywhere that oppressed people are. Everywhere. The issues are the same. amongst the white women, I mean, the whole idea that they came up with their feminism, and I understand, again, that's why I defined it for myself. They know the struggles they have with their menfolk.

But this is the thing about these white people, how they poison. We did not have tuberculosis before these people showed up. Go and ask the Indians who died in mass of smallpox and all kinds of diseases. They did not have those diseases before. Of course, we know in their case, these people took blankets.

that were used by people with the disease and brought them as gifts. need to be, you need to know your culture. You need to remember so that you be careful what you're accepting because you have a mindset of how you treat people. know, Africans were very hospitable people. You also assume that this person coming smiling and bringing you a gift that they come in goodwill. No, they came to take, they came to poison. They brought all kinds of diseases. Let me tell you AIDS.

A B, they were saying something about, oh, it came from monkeys, so on and so forth. What did they not manufacture it in their labs? All the ways that they have conspired to eliminate us. now, both the education that I was talking about, but even how we eat. You know that there are diseases that we're dealing with now in our countries that were unheard of when we were eating our food. But they come and then they sell you on, you want to eat like us.

Adesoji Iginla (49:23.605)
You abandon your traditions so much so that if someone brings Ugali for you now to eat, or Gali, that is not civilized. And you just go along with them and it's killing you. And you are not even aware anymore. What are we chasing? Africa must remember and for us to remember all of you that are listening now.

You need to be reading and you need to be writing. One, we must write about our own experiences. Who is going to tell our stories if we do not find ourselves valuable enough to tell the stories? Now, it's one thing to value yourself and know your story, but we also have this other issue of time. Again, all the ways that our very souls are stolen from us.

One of the reasons I could write as much as I did, publish as much as I did, if you ask me, if I was telling you, just me and you talking, although I know we have an audience, what, because I was no longer under the rulership of a husband per se, that should not have to be the case. Because what you still see, even amongst educated women, hold over, not just African women, but world over.

We're now out, well, I say now out for the industrialized world. Of course, African women, were always part and parcel of our communities. We worked, we brought in food, we did, you you understand what I'm saying? But to the extent that we're now out working these jobs, we will go out and work the same hours as the man is working for less pay while worrying about childcare.

While dealing with pregnancy and worrying about, would they now say, I'm less valuable because I had children. But being told that my sole value is in woman, is no, is in motherhood, not even womanhood, is in motherhood. And I'm the nurturer. So when I finished working the same hours that the man worked for less pay, a woman who has the same education, but will be now treated

Adesoji Iginla (51:45.547)
by her peers who are male as though she's a servant in the workplace, serve as secretary, so on and so forth. Then you come home and then you continue with all the quote unquote traditional roles of a woman as well. So yeah, you're up before the sun. You are the last one to go to bed. You're exhausted in body, mind, spirit. And then you don't have time to write.

You see how all of these things conspire. And then when you don't write, then it's like, what have women contributed? We have a lot of work to do. And I'm encouraging all your viewers. If you are a male, become a feminist. Support women and of course men, but support women in being their full selves. Don't be threatened by them. And if you're a woman.

Stop buying into your own oppression and being that woman who will point at another woman doing something that you're not doing and tear her down and question whether she's really a woman and see her as a threat because she is doing something that you're not doing. Don't participate in your own oppression. One other question. Would you say your background?

being from a matrilineal society helped form your character in the sense that every you got, I mean, you started with the fact that your father saw the importance of educating girl who will then become mothers, grandmothers and what have you. But particularly that your society is a society in Ghana because of its matrilineal

position from the nucleus of your resistance with regards to external forces, neocolonialism and the attacks on culture. Would you say that's the case? Without a doubt. Like I said, until I entered university, at this time I was a young woman. I'd pretty much, you know, gone through my, you know, basic formative years. The concept that because I was a woman, I was less than.

Adesoji Iginla (54:11.445)
was something that had not crossed my mind. So in that matrilineal society, in that cocoon, men could be their full selves, women could be their full selves. It might look different, it might look the same sometimes, but it wasn't a hierarchy in that sense. And that was the sensibility that I took to college, to university. So when I was now being challenged,

Quite frankly, the people who are challenging me looked to me to be ridiculous. Now for a woman who may have been raised in an environment where she was already from childhood, taught that because she has excess chromosome, that somehow has made her deficient as a human being. Then you can see how that will play mind games with you.

And that you, you, it becomes a, what do they say? It's self fulfilling prophecy. When you have, you have taken in that information and you have let it permeate your whole body. Then that is how you move as a result. So yes, definitely my upbringing and that matrilineal society. And you'll even see that for men who have been raised.

understanding, if I may use this word, the equality of all human beings, male or female. They also see things differently, even though I must say this patriarchy is so insidious that none of us quite escape it, male or female. Just the ideology that we cast sex, some of the language we use, very similar to how

The ideology of racism and the inferiority of African people kind of seeps through everything. So I believe it was in the United States that they did that doll test. Many decades ago, I believe in the fifties and even black girls were rejecting dolls that looked like them in favor of European looking dolls. It seeps into your psyche. have to.

Adesoji Iginla (56:37.141)
Be very much aware of how it is just in the air and in the atmosphere. And so you have to be extra vigilant to counteract it. And one of the ways is to make sure you're plugged into a source that is purer, that connects you to your memories, your ancestral memories of who we are, what we've accomplished.

what we continue to accomplish now that other people take credit for so that you don't lose your sense of self. Because once you've lost your sense of self, in fact, you know, I don't know if I can find it quickly. I'm looking at the time in my book, my sister, Killjoy, there was a humorous book. you know what? One of the controversies that came about as a result of this book is that in this book, to some degree, I explore

a romantic relationship between two women. And of course, for some people that was absolute taboo. But one of the themes that I explore in this book is this notion of Africans coming to the West, getting their degrees, and then losing themselves. So let me just read this. Postgraduate awards, graduate awards, it doesn't matter what you call it. But did I hear you say awards, awards, awards?

What dainty name to describe this? To describe this most merciless, most formalized, open, thorough, spy system of all time. For a few pennies now and a doctoral degree later, tell us about your people, your history, your mind, your mind, your mind. Tell us boy, how we can make you weak, weaker than you've already been.

And don't you get any ideas either. No, no radical interpretative, interpretive nonsense from you flat-nose. My brother, there should be no misunderstanding, no malice intended. Indeed, our dear academic doctors deserve all the worship they get from our poor administrators at home and more. They work hard for the doctorates. They work too hard, giving away not only themselves, but

Adesoji Iginla (59:01.037)
all of us. The price is high, my brother. Otherwise, the story is as old as empires. Oppressed multitudes from the provinces rush to the imperial seat because that is where they know all salvation comes from. But as other imperial subjects in other times and other places have discovered, for the slave, there is nothing at the center but worse slavery.

Weather warming itself up in a single cold room by a paraffin lamp, covering its nakedness and disappointed hopes with the old tickets of the football pools are glorious with degrees. Above all, what hurt our sister, she stood on the pavements of London and watched her people was how badly dressed they were. They were all poorly clothed. I could go on. One last one that I'm going to read also from this book.

This again, like I said, slightly autobiographical. I was often challenging my brothers and sisters who were in the West and could not possibly see themselves coming back home to work. And as I talked to a brother who had shared eloquently about all of his accomplishments,

Let me see if I can find that piece in my book here. Anyway, the point that I was trying to make is that he felt he had to prove himself to the white man. He felt that being here allowed him, being here, and I mean in the Western world, allowed him to show the white man just how smart we were. And my question is, what are you?

Trying to prove my goodness. I cannot find where that is at this time Well, I will leave it at that but the point that I was making was not only was he trying to prove himself to the white man at large I noticed that he also had on his arm a white woman and It seemed to me quite funny that not only was he performing

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:21.436)
For the larger white audience, he had also chosen to bring into his home a white woman whom he had to perform tricks for and have a private audience. But you will have to read the book itself. You know, I wrote this book a long time ago, can't not find that. But it's a quick read and it is a funny read. And I certainly encourage your.

your guests to pick up our sister, Killjoy. Okay. I'm just, I just want to summarize some things with regards to what you've told us so far, which regards to the question of food and culture. New colonialism has done a number on us. You mentioned the idea of that. You mentioned something to the effect that when you were in the government of Jerry Rawlings, even though

supposed to be a revolutionary government. Your quest to ensure that everybody got free education was undermined. Well, that's neoculinarism in effect. When you have the IMF, World Bank come in and they offer to help you, one of the things they expect you to take off the table is educating your masses, feeding your masses in taking care of their health. Those three things are the first thing they call

In other words, beware the smallpox coated blankets. Yes. They don't give us any aid. They're not aiding us. They're aiding themselves. So it will be important that those in the United States at the moment understand that that colonialism that was previously outside has now come back home. So taking away of Medicaid, undermining the education ministry and making your food much more expensive.

On existence, when you take our land away from us, when we're growing things that we can't consume and selling them for pennies. Yes. And then using that money to buy guns or to fund conferences for a select group of elites to travel, to discuss in foreign lands, what must be done on our land while they spend money and buy up.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:41.948)
property and things in other people's lands, but don't take care of their people and think about it. Africa today has the youngest population. The vast majority of Africans are under age 30. When you don't educate those masses, what state do you leave them in and who benefits from the destitution of the whole generation?

And that is not how our education used to be when we talk about our rites of passage or any of the things that we did to educate everybody had a Everybody was going to learn a skill that allowed them to be useful in their community So how do you now? embrace an ideology that says only a select few and then those ones lord it over everybody and the people who are put in these positions

are the ones who are most disconnected in their cultural memory. Cause they have emptied themselves out and put in Shakespeare and Marx and everybody else. I cannot even speak their language. Do you know what is communicated through language? We could go on forever. Yes, we could go on forever. We'll go on forever, unfortunately, you know,

mama, you've left for the ancestral realm. But there is one final point I want to make. When you talked about women should support other women. She had a very dear friend and there was something in preparing for this program that I noticed. What did you notice? She had a dear friend whose name was Misseri Gitaemuggo. She met Miss Muggo in the 60s.

She followed the advice of Mithirumugu to who herself was exiled to Zimbabwe. And then the United States. He votes, know, so that friendship, you know, culminated in long years of writing and what have you. So when... And sharpening each other's minds. is not work you do in isolation.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:06.628)
You want to be partnered with as many critical thinking people. Exactly. And then that friendship culminated in a reader, a collection of writings in honor of Ama Aita Edo that was written when she turned 70. The book was released in 2012. The book was dedicated to their mothers, to their mothers, to Ms.

Gita Emugo's mother and Ama Aita's mother. Well, here's the key card. They both passed on in 2023, month exactly to the day of each order. So talk about spirituality moving in motion. So for those who want to delve more, that's the book. It's Ama Aita Aido at 70.

There's actually put up a book. They picked a nice picture of me. Yes. That is how I would just look at people. What are you saying? And your point is, are you even listening to yourself? Does what you're saying make sense? Does it lead to our liberation? Yes. So, and there is an interview that was conducted by Mr. Igboots.

That the two ancestors sat and spoke and it was very, very, very insightful. It's talk about the, they talked about everything. Their writing, their building of community, how they got to know each other. It was- And that's what we women do though. When we are connected, we build community. So who are you building community with?

Some people just want to be the only one bright shining star and everybody else they feel threatened by. Who are you building community with? I became more of who I was, better, sharpened, challenged by my dear sister. And I know I did the same for her. Yeah. So I would want to leave on that note. Who are you building community with?

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:24.068)
Because for them to resist, needed people around them to be able to resist. They didn't resist in isolation. It's just that each story is unique, but it's done in community with others. So question is... And that was one of the things that caused me so much pain is that for too long, my sister Bessie Head was in a position where she did not have...

that community around her. So yes, the call to action is who are you building community with? On that very motivational note, I would like to thank Amaaita Edo for taking time from and talking to us. Thank you very much for coming.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:19.382)
to our listeners and audience, the audio version of this presentation can be heard, can be downloaded at all, you know, all podcasts platforms and you be well. Next week, we're going to be looking back at Mama Idol and the other 12 people before her. So we're going to be doing a review. So if you have questions, please do bring them.

Until next week kids, good night and God bless.