EP 1 Tracing 13 Women Warriors of Culture, Politics, and Power I Women And Resistance 🌍

In this conversation, Hosts Adesoji Iginla and Aya Fubara Eneli Esq. used the episode as an opportunity to reflect on the legacies of influential women throughout history, exploring their struggles, resilience, and contributions to literature and activism. The hosts discuss the importance of recognising the impact of these women, particularly in the context of double oppression and the role of diasporic women in the African liberation struggle. 

The hosts emphasised the need for personal reflection and commitment to purpose, drawing lessons from the lives of these remarkable figures.

Takeaways

*The importance of reflecting on the legacies of women in history.
*Literature serves as a powerful tool for resistance and activism.
*Bessie Head's resilience is a testament to the human spirit.
*Women have historically faced double oppression, yet they continue to fight.
*The role of diasporic women is crucial in the African liberation struggle.
*Staying power is a key attribute in the fight for justice.
*Activism requires sacrifice and commitment to a greater cause.
*Women in history have often been erased, but their contributions are vital.
*Personal stories of struggle can inspire collective action.
*The journey of understanding one's purpose is ongoing.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Overview of the Series
02:31 Reflections on the First Three Women
05:19 Literature as Resistance
07:50 The Impact of Bessie Head
10:41 Lessons from Historical Figures
13:24 Exploring Freedom Fighters
16:18 The Role of Diasporic Women
18:55 Staying Power in Resistance
21:35 Legal Minds and Rebel Spirits
24:13 Double Oppression and Activism
26:53 Personal Reflections and Lessons Learned
29:35 Preparing for Future Discussions

Welcome  to Women and Resistance, a powerful podcast where we honour the courage, resilience, and revolutionary spirit of women across the globe. Hosted by Aya Fubara Eneli Esq and Adesoji Iginla...

You're listening to Women and Resistance with Aya Fubara Eneli Esq and Adesoji Iginla—where we honour the voices of women who have shaped history through courage and defiance...Now, back to the conversation.

That’s it for this episode of Women and Resistance. Thank you for joining us in amplifying the voices of women who challenge injustice and change the course of history. Be sure to subscribe, share, and continue the conversation. Together We Honour the past, act in the present, and shape the future. Until next time, stay inspired and stay in resistance!

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:02.016)
Yes greetings greetings and welcome to another episode of Women and Resistance and before we start my name again is Adesuji Ginla one of your hosts and my co-host and my sister from Another Mother is the ever incisive Ayah Fubera NLE Esquire sister. Welcome.

Aya Fubara Eneli (00:16.926)
since.

Aya Fubara Eneli (00:25.914)
Hello, hello greetings from Luxor, Egypt. Formerly known as Waset, but you know we are, are where we are, yes. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (00:33.196)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (00:38.95)
okay. All the way on the mother continent. Okay. Okay. I see the spirit is also, you know, bubbling up as well.

Aya Fubara Eneli (00:47.735)
Hahaha!

Adesoji Iginla (00:50.222)
You're out of the belly of the beast, as they would say. So first things first, we've got to thank you for all you do, because today's episode is going to be mainly a recap of the previous 13 weeks. 13. Yeah, 13 weeks. So, yes. And the Africans will say it, we are pausing our forward march to reflect.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:07.358)
13 weeks. Whoa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19.978)
and reflect with you because we're going to stitch together the legacies of the 13 women we've previously looked at and others to understand how it is they got where they were and to help, you know, navigate where we need to go. So let's begin with the recap. We'll start with those that penned their resistance and by that

We're looking at the last titan we did. First, Ama Aita Edo, Bessie Head and Gwendoline Brooks. What springs to your mind when you hear those three names?

Aya Fubara Eneli (02:05.662)
Great question. Bessie had Amaya Tido and Gwendolyn Brooks, all who lived in different places, all connected by this one struggle that has multiple heads. It's like fighting one beast with multiple heads. Patriarchy, imperialism, colonialism, classism.

Adesoji Iginla (02:26.702)
Correct.

Aya Fubara Eneli (02:35.706)
sexism, racism, all of the isms, so to speak. And what comes to mind is just their focus and their vision and their courage to speak up and to speak loudly and speak often.

when many others may have been silent. And I would add to that group actually, Nina Simone, because she wrote the words for some of her music as well, some of the songs that we know her for. so, yes, certainly looking at these women using writing as resistance,

you see where their work was not just an act of protest. It was, I would say, a prophecy as well, speaking into us what should be, how we should be, encouraging us to remember and to stand in the truth of that remembrance in all of its forms, because we like to focus on

especially being here in Egypt on the glory days. But there is a reason that those glory days came to the end that they came to and their lessons that we should learn from that. And of course, IE Qua Amah would chime in immediately on some of those lessons, but definitely documenting, which they encourage each and every one of us to do. And if you're

If you have any form of literacy, writing should be something that we all embrace. Memory, going back, retrieving those memories, documenting them. And then, of course, using your voice to speak our own truth and to subvert Eurocentric narratives, which unfortunately make up what they call the canon, which all of us who get educated through this Western system are deeply

Aya Fubara Eneli (04:51.36)
immersed in and are impacted by even when we don't realize it. So, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (04:52.736)
in mainstays. Yeah.

So let me pose this question. How would you say literature becomes the battlefield for identity? Just not specifically those three, but in order to ascertain who they were as humans and you know what they say, he who writes

the history gets to narrate the present, the future, and the past. So how have they used literature as a means of resistance?

Aya Fubara Eneli (05:38.95)
I think what they clearly demonstrate is that the tools for resistance have varied as they should be and that we all have a tool. And as we talk about some of the other women that we've also covered. so certainly using literature, writing their own experiences, writing the experiences of other people, women in particular, but of the cultures in which they are a part of.

writing in such a way that people can easily grasp and hopefully apply. So whether you look at Gwendolyn Brooks with her poetry,

We real cool, you know, that is one example. Or Amaya Taito talking about relationships, something that is very relatable to a lot of people, but looking at it from the perspective of women and African women, a voice that is not heralded as much and giving it that legitimacy, giving it that platform. Or Bessie Head, who clearly

I mean, I encourage everybody to go back and if you haven't go back and watch each of those episodes, but that woman lived a life that many of us would not want to live. Fought through from birth, all kinds of trauma. Of course dealt with mental health illness, was in exile. Many of these women were exiles at one point or the other.

have the wherewithal to document that, which I think allows people to feel seen and heard. And I think a big part of healing is to not feel like you're crazy because you feel like your experience is just yours and maybe you're not seeing things the way you should, or maybe you're making mountains out of mountains.

Aya Fubara Eneli (07:45.854)
And so to read their work, to have someone else give voice to your victories, your triumphs, but also your pain, your struggles, I think is very affirming. And Peggy is asking which was my favorite. I'm going to assume you're asking which is my favorite of the writers out of these three. Like I said, I would also add Nina Simone.

Adesoji Iginla (08:01.858)
skin yet.

Adesoji Iginla (08:10.016)
of these three here.

Aya Fubara Eneli (08:15.41)
I don't know that I can pick a favorite just because they all told their own truth in different ways. I would say that I was very struck by Bessie Head's story and her resilience. I think a lesser human being would have just ended life early, would have just like, okay, let me take the path of least resistance, but

Adesoji Iginla (08:34.798)
would broken, would have broken, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (08:44.494)
you know, she fought to the very end and for her to have been able to get published at that time with all the obstacles and yet write in ways.

Adesoji Iginla (08:51.906)
time here.

Aya Fubara Eneli (08:59.032)
that just brought her words to life. She had a vibrancy to her words and it was very multi-layered. You could feel it on so many levels. And even though her life was incredibly hard, you did not necessarily feel hopelessness from reading her. There was just this sense of we fight on, right? You've got breath in your body, you don't give up.

Adesoji Iginla (09:01.88)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:22.786)
Yep.

Aya Fubara Eneli (09:25.51)
And they all suffered in their own ways for speaking up in the ways that they did. Some more than the others, course, Gwendolyn Brooks lived long enough to be celebrated in certain ways and perhaps had a little bit more support in terms of her intimate relationship with her husband. But...

Yeah, if I, again, hard to say favorite, but if I have to say the one that really truly every moment reading her was just like holding my heart in my hand would be Bessie Head for sure.

Adesoji Iginla (10:01.336)
Yeah, really painful because he also speaks to most of the teams that we're currently experiencing. One alienation, immigration, mental health. I mean.

Aya Fubara Eneli (10:20.838)
Women as second class citizens, being biracial, mental health issues, poverty, poverty was a big part of it, going hungry, literally. Of course, something that Pauli Mori also experienced, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (10:22.47)
second class citizen so she was she just she exactly you yeah yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. And we'll come to Polymory. which regards to... Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (10:45.426)
Who was another writer? And we definitely could have included her in that bunch. She was definitely a prolific writer as a poet, but also even her legal analysis.

Adesoji Iginla (10:52.803)
but.

There is an angle I'm trying to bring her in on. I mean, she crosses so many of the themes, but there is one angle where you would see where polymory comes in. With regards to this, so I suppose the question is, which is what Peggy was alluding to there?

Aya Fubara Eneli (11:02.428)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (11:24.896)
What lessons can writers today learn from this for writers, including Nina Simone, that would say this is how you blend art with activism?

Aya Fubara Eneli (11:40.254)
Would say so then we'll say five writers because we'll include Paulie Marie they actually even My god, but all she also wrote poetry as well. So these women were definitely multi-dimensional I would say that art cannot be for art's sake. I think that that's a very Eurocentric perspective we did not I Don't know you speak you're about do you guys necessarily have a word for art?

Adesoji Iginla (11:43.715)
You

Adesoji Iginla (11:52.802)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (12:02.787)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:10.512)
we basically produce things that were functional and that were necessary for our survival or our storytelling, our chronicling.

Adesoji Iginla (12:11.985)
No, Ati is…

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:22.366)
our exhortation of each other and you know Remembering the past and reminding, you know people in the present in the future So I would say that in this day and age where you know, we need clicks and as I say that like subscribe share Put your notification bell on all the good stuff That these people weren't just like using chat GPT and saying okay, what will sell?

Adesoji Iginla (12:37.774)
you

Yeah. All the, all the good stuff. Yeah. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (12:50.093)
Hmm

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:50.366)
what would be salacious enough that people are going to be like, oh, I want all the tea. They were writing for liberation. Their writing, their works were an act of not just resistance, but trying to reclaim who we are as human beings in the world. And so for people who

Adesoji Iginla (12:58.968)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (13:17.11)
know or want to develop that art of writing, whether it's literature or songs, whatever legal documents, whatever it is, I would say that it wasn't just. will take the liberty to say that their work wasn't just writing for writing sake, but they had a vision and that they had a purpose to it. And we should all find the purpose that drives the things that we do.

Adesoji Iginla (13:38.968)
Yeah, that would be.

Adesoji Iginla (13:45.262)
I mean, you said you used the Eurobaz as an example of how art is. You know how you go into museum and you see a drum and the drum is put behind a show glass. see a...

Aya Fubara Eneli (14:00.03)
Why do you say museum? Because I think, my God, we've been to, in three days, I think we've been to maybe seven, eight, nine museums, whatever, yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (14:04.248)
So.

Adesoji Iginla (14:11.404)
So I mean, so you see, you see the drums behind the show glass, you know, you're looking at it's like, this is what they used to do. The big drum, the little drum, the the pestle and the mortar, those in, you know, to the to the Europeans, they're functional. Exactly. They're functional. These tools that you see on the the the millstone, those are from the, you know, their tools.

Aya Fubara Eneli (14:28.754)
We're functional.

Adesoji Iginla (14:41.484)
yeah but you go to any European museums those stuff are now put in museums like this is stuff that it's akin to us putting a toaster behind a show glass you know you know so

Aya Fubara Eneli (14:49.307)
Art.

Aya Fubara Eneli (14:57.392)
Yeah, which they which they will do to show the evolution of toaster ovens or something Yeah, they will do but in the time that the person was actually creating the toaster it had a function now Do we led by spirit? Set you know Created in a certain way or engrave it with certain things and all of that. Yes before us at that time It wasn't i'm looking forward to my piece being hung in somebody's house

Adesoji Iginla (15:08.654)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (15:25.486)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (15:26.342)
It was, it had a purpose to it. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (15:31.022)
Okay, speaking to purpose, we go to the next group. Well, freedom fighters in flesh and fire. The next group contains the likes of Winnie Mandela, Queen Idia and Empress Tatoo Bato. Before you even go delve into who they are, let's throw, let's use the PEGI test again.

What would you consider to be your favorite?

of the three.

Aya Fubara Eneli (16:06.81)
You can't, again, it's like define favorite. I don't have a favorite. Each of these women.

Adesoji Iginla (16:15.107)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (16:15.78)
in their own time rose up to meet the challenges of their day. So whether you look at Queen Ediya who invoked music and spirituality and military strategy and nurturing of her son and you know bringing together her community and actually physically fighting for sovereignty. I would say all of these women in one shape or form or the other were fighting for

Adesoji Iginla (16:21.026)
Okay.

Aya Fubara Eneli (16:45.664)
sovereignty. Again, just used all the talents that she had and directed them towards a purpose. So, you you often talk about, you know, let's say the power of the sun. And yeah, and it's really hot here in Luxor. But, you know, the sun just shining on you. Yeah, I guess if you're out there a long time, you could get sunburned or tanned or whatever.

Adesoji Iginla (17:06.414)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (17:14.462)
But it's not until you really direct the rays of the sun. So if I take a magnifying glass, if I'm walking around with a book or a sheet of paper, no problem out in the sun, I take a magnifying glass and I direct those rays in a very purposeful way on a sheet of paper and I can set it on fire.

Adesoji Iginla (17:32.44)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (17:33.226)
And so what I see with these women is just being very directed in what they were doing. Warfare, state craft, definitely, you know, when you talk about...

Taituba too. I mean, this woman was thinking strategically, thinking about economics, banking, thinking about where do we receive our guests and how do we make sure that we have our own space and we don't have to go to a foreigners place to meet. And so set up their first hotel, which is still in existence.

and navigating some of the preconceived notions about what women can and cannot do in that whole purpose and not losing who she was as a woman, whatever that might mean to different people. So these were all of them very much cultural symbols in their own right. And definitely, if you talk about Winnie Mandela and, again, what she endured, I don't know how many of you have maybe spent a weekend alone and you're like,

oh my God, the loneliness, it's quiet, whatever. Now think about 491 days in solitary confinement away from everybody you know and love. You could have your kids there in a sparse living environment and ended up of course being known as basically the mother of the movement and being the guiding force behind

Adesoji Iginla (18:44.5)
days on FireMaps.

Aya Fubara Eneli (19:07.58)
the elevation of Nelson Mandela, who obviously was fighting and we know his story in prison for what, 27 years, but there were others as well. But she's the one who kept that drum beat going, making sure that the world did not forget him. And I would say obviously played a very significant role in ultimately

Adesoji Iginla (19:17.219)
Yes, you.

Aya Fubara Eneli (19:33.362)
the apathite movement or yeah, apathite being who would say at least temporarily displaced, hopefully permanently, but at least temporarily displaced. And so you see Tatu, Batil, Queenie, Diawini, Mandela, all of them defending sovereignty, all of them really trying to use their gifts, their talents, their voice, all of their

thinking abilities to galvanize people towards their liberation of their people. And so in terms of a favorite.

Aya Fubara Eneli (20:14.91)
Can't do it. Just can't do it. The reason we're studying all of these women is to draw inspiration from each and every one of them and to understand how whatever circumstances you are dealing with.

Adesoji Iginla (20:15.47)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (20:31.666)
There is never a need to completely be hopeless, even though things may look that way, you just keep fighting towards the vision that you have. And so the question is really, what vision do we have for ourselves? Do we really believe we can be free? And are we then doing what we are capable of to work towards that ultimate freedom? And I would say many of us aren't, most of us aren't, but these three women definitely embodied it

different ways at different times, regardless of the obstacles that they faced.

Adesoji Iginla (21:09.902)
Okay, I suppose, I mean, the fact that we've done this 13 women probably answers the question I'm going to ask. Well, I'll ask him, I'll ask it anyway. You probably have a different take. What do we gain or what might we have lost from erasing these women from our military and political history?

Aya Fubara Eneli (21:35.356)
Well, you you think of if you can put 100,000 people to fight towards or work towards a particular aim and you decide not only am I not gonna use the 100,000, I'm gonna use 50,000, but part of the work of those 50,000 is to suppress the other 50,000. Very divided focus. You can see how that that would absolutely weaken you.

how their ideas that will never surface because you did not give them room, but how you're also expending your energy in ways that are counterproductive. And so in erasing women, we absolutely give over our power to those who choose to oppress us.

You set yourself up for failure in the sense that you have weakened yourself. Like I'm going to a fight and I tie one hand behind my back. How's that supposed to work? And when that hand is trying to undo itself to fight, then the other hand is actually also preoccupied not just with fighting the enemy, but also keeping that hand tied.

At some point, you're going to be in a place where your enemy can then just completely overcome you. And it might sound simplistic, but I think that to a large degree that explains where people of African descent are today all over the world is we have not played to our strengths. We have actually worked against each other.

Adesoji Iginla (23:11.67)
on the mind via.

Aya Fubara Eneli (23:17.126)
and continuing to erase these women, one propels this idea of what is all that can be.

And so men continue to perform in this way that is not helpful to us, is actually harmful to us. It allows women, because a lot of times people who are oppressed bite into their own oppression. So it allows women to feel like, yes, this is the role that has been. Yeah, and.

Adesoji Iginla (23:46.528)
equated to me. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (23:49.358)
not only am I going to play that role, if any woman decides that she's going to try and break out of that mold, yeah, I'm going to make sure that I pull her back because how dare you. And so again, you know, my whole focus in life is how do we

Adesoji Iginla (23:55.288)
You'll be pulled back into life.

Aya Fubara Eneli (24:08.68)
How do we exert our full humanity? How do we have our own sovereignty? How do we create a society that is equitable for all?

And we can't do that by erasing ourselves, erasing our strengths, erasing our struggles, erasing our voices. And that's what we've done, obviously for African people as a whole to some extent, but specifically for women of African descent. We just have not told the stories in a way that

would allow everybody to draw inspiration and to build on it. So it's like you're trying to build a house and every day you're starting the foundation again because you keep destroying the foundation. When and how will that house ever be completed?

Adesoji Iginla (25:06.35)
Speaking of the push against erasure, which brings us to the next segment. We're talking about the Diasporic Flames. Now these are three women. The two Amis, Amy Ashwood Gavi, Amy Jack Gavi, and Andrea Bluin. So the tie here is...

What's the role of diasporic women in the African and larger African liberation struggle?

Aya Fubara Eneli (25:45.17)
What is their role to be their whole human selves? And again, I apologize if that sounds simplistic, but as a woman myself, obviously, but you know, woman who happens to be a mother of multiple children, I'm a wife, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, you know, so many times the prevailing.

Adesoji Iginla (25:46.474)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (25:50.539)
You

Adesoji Iginla (26:13.431)
negative.

Aya Fubara Eneli (26:13.882)
message that you get from society is there's a way you have to be and I know I often hear of you know women particularly women who are mothers Talk about I lost myself Well, you know you lose yourself then how you gonna lead? Where what? Yeah, how does that work? And so,

Aya Fubara Eneli (26:41.134)
So thinking about these women, I'm thinking about their shared willingness to sacrifice personal comfort for collective freedom.

I'm thinking about them not restricting themselves to geographical locations or to just, hey, let me achieve personal, know, just do what I need to do for myself, but willing to make the sacrifices to organize, organize, organize, and to reach across geographical boundaries.

Adesoji Iginla (27:00.598)
Okay.

Aya Fubara Eneli (27:20.634)
And so what you see with these women is like, let's take Andrea Blu in for a second, for a moment, working in Congo. She didn't come from Congo, but understanding that our struggle is one and the same wherever we might be and the willingness to task herself intellectually and then to...

present herself as willing to do this work that could cost you your life at any moment in time. I don't know if that answers your question.

Adesoji Iginla (27:57.614)
I mean, to buttress your point with regards to Andre Bouline, she also participated in galvanizing the Guineans to say no to the pact of continued colonialism in Guinea in 1958, and is the beginning of what has now transpired into total African liberation.

at least in the French speaking part of Africa. So she is a foremost name there. She also contributed to the independence movement, at least the earlier part of it, of Congo. Being advisor to Patrice Lumumba, unfortunately he melts, you know, an unfortunate demise. So.

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:41.148)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:50.846)
His demise has been the demise of Africa. There's really no other way to say it. But yeah, please carry on.

Adesoji Iginla (28:54.222)
Yeah. Yeah. And so to the Gavis, the first and the second Gavis, they continued their, I mean, they stuck to their roles, regardless of how circumstances threw them into it. They knew what was required and they carried forth.

Aya Fubara Eneli (29:02.94)
Yes. Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (29:20.314)
And again, what you see with both Amis is that Pan-Africanist focus, that willingness to carve out space for women.

that willingness to work with people again across geographical borders, not to say, I'm Jamaican, this all I'm concerned about, but really to understand that our issues are interconnected wherever we are as Black people, as people of African descent across the diaspora.

And to carry on that work despite, again, difficulties, none of these women were wealthy.

They struggled with the everyday issues that most of us struggle with, but stayed very singularly focused as well.

on this liberation work and not saying, well, it's for somebody else to do, but to put themselves to that work. so like with Amy Ashwood Garvey, okay, yes, marriage is over, you know, but the work continues. I still hold on to these ideals with Amy Jack Garvey, like even with her difficulties with Marcus Garvey.

Adesoji Iginla (30:29.302)
used a bit.

Aya Fubara Eneli (30:37.616)
still believing so much in his philosophies that she's like, I'm going to, she was the one who actually put it all in print and kept that idea of Garveyism alive. And of course we know the UNIA as we covered, it's probably the most successful Pan-African organization that we've ever had. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (30:46.06)
Yeah, compiled it.

Aya Fubara Eneli (31:05.438)
And again, when we erase those stories, we don't build on their work. We're always starting over. And if you're always starting over, how long are you going to live to be able to then complete the work? We've got to be able to build on the work each other has done.

Adesoji Iginla (31:27.136)
Okay. So you spoke to the staying focus of these women despite the lack of resources, which lends itself to the next group of women. Now we're talking Nina Simone, Florence Griffin Joyner.

They didn't have resources, but they knew what they wanted and they stuck to it.

Adesoji Iginla (31:57.718)
In what ways would you say staying power, the focus, is one of the Black women's major attributes when it comes to resistance?

Aya Fubara Eneli (32:13.278)
Okay, so again, I gotta add Pauli Murray to that list because yeah, poverty and rejection from places, both she and Nina share the story of, we're good enough, we applied to this school and.

Adesoji Iginla (32:15.854)
Ha!

Adesoji Iginla (32:22.079)
Mm. Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (32:30.192)
In her case, was very in Pauli Morris case was very clear she was denied because of race. Nina didn't necessarily get a letter that spoke to that. But there was that sense. And of course, after they die, now you want well, they tried to give Pauli an award, honorary degree. No, when she was still alive and she was like to hell with you all, I don't want it. Nina, they did it, I think posthumously. But

Adesoji Iginla (32:47.904)
I pose you most yeah. Yeah, pose you.

Adesoji Iginla (32:56.206)
Was he misled? Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (33:00.958)
I don't know. So for instance, in the case of Nina Simone, initially she wanted to be this classical pianist. She knew she had this gift. Of course, some doors were closed to her that would have been opened if she had certainly been a white male. Maybe easier to walk through if she'd been a white female, but in that black body, in that dark skinned black body. She wasn't a Lena Horne looking type or Dorothy Dandridge looking type.

Adesoji Iginla (33:23.916)
Black body. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (33:30.738)
things were a little bit tougher for her that caused her to veer into a different way, you know, way of living, starting to play music in clubs. And then it's like, hey, you got to sing. It's like, okay, well, sing I will then. And that took off. what you see with each and every one of them again is resilience.

Adesoji Iginla (33:37.526)
worldly music.

Aya Fubara Eneli (34:00.37)
One door closes, my life does not end. Let me find another way. I may still grieve over what I couldn't get or do. So Pauli Murray graduates top of her class, Howard Law School.

the, the, um, at that time, the custom was that person gets to go to Harvard Law. Harvard Law says, no, now the reason why we're not taking you is not race. It's that you're a woman. So you already been rejected for race. Now she's being rejected for being a woman. I mean, it's like, what the H-E-L-L, you know, whatever. But, um, these women,

Adesoji Iginla (34:34.87)
Exactly.

Aya Fubara Eneli (34:43.396)
in having this fire within them to do something with their lives, to do something with their gifts, just kept going from door to door and in some places just going ahead and creating their own doors.

Adesoji Iginla (34:57.39)
nausea.

Aya Fubara Eneli (34:58.338)
a great personal sacrifice to themselves again, you look at Nina Simone and then you just see you see these recurring themes of also mental health issues for for the latter For women who are in more recent times where we can document that or where they spoke to those issues.

And yet not quitting, like falling down, but getting back up. So Pauli Murray, literally being assigned to a camp because she was not eating well enough. And it's like, we need to get you somewhere where you're getting some meals. And of course she gets kicked out of there because she's reading a Marxist book, which God forbid, but.

persisting so much that they changed the world that they lived in. So whether you look at Pauline's impact on.

the civil rights movement for people of African descent, which then opened the doors for every other group. Look at it for women's rights, look at it for what she never really got to experience, enjoyed transgender rights.

absolutely a trailblazer in so many ways, but it required never giving up on yourself, even when you get knocked down over and over again. So we saw that with Nina and with Flojo. You know, there are some people who say, why would you include Flojo in a conversation on women and resistance? I mean, look around the sports world now, whether it's tennis and particularly track.

Adesoji Iginla (36:23.394)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (36:40.292)
and see how Black women now are able to express themselves. And it was really Flojo was one of the main people, not the only one, because she built on some of the work of other people as well. But just breaking open those doors to say, yes, I am an athlete, but I'm also an artist. She actually was an artist. And I also have a voice. I'm not just, you know,

Adesoji Iginla (36:45.878)
themselves here.

Adesoji Iginla (37:01.774)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (37:09.254)
an entertainer on the track field or whatever.

I will express my beauty, my femininity. I can still do my job on this track. And I have other things in life. And she actually talked about what she wanted the next phase of her life to be, but unfortunately passed away much too young from some health issues. And so the prevailing story again is who are you? What gifts have you been given? How are you going to use them?

you have, how you going to develop them? Because all of these women were also incredibly disciplined. Think of the work that it takes to learn to become a classical pianist. And then in the case of Nina Simone, the very unique sound that she created where it's like some classical music and it's, know, folksy and it's, you know, some would call it jazz and she's putting it all this together and it sounds like nothing that has been before.

Adesoji Iginla (37:52.631)
Yanis.

Aya Fubara Eneli (38:12.326)
before she even gets into speaking her truth through her lyrics and doing it so boldly as to say no you didn't just come here or maybe you thought you came here to for me to entertain you but i'm also going to educate you i'm also going to make you feel uncomfortable

Adesoji Iginla (38:26.722)
Get you.

Aya Fubara Eneli (38:29.402)
and Flo Jo the same thing. Yeah, you may have come to just see me run, but I'm coming to say I'm a whole human being and these are other aspects of me and I'm going to let them all shine and flow through and Pauli Murray, priest, poet, lawyer, activist, just amazing. so for us women, would say, and for men, because everybody should be inspired by these stories.

You know a phrase that I used to hear a lot and some of you probably still hear it a lot and you can share in the chat how it impacts you is Jack of all trades and master of not

Adesoji Iginla (39:11.266)
Master of None.

Aya Fubara Eneli (39:12.796)
And there was this sense that, which I think is a very Eurocentric viewpoint, that you have to be so specialized and just do one thing. But you even look at, if I can invoke some men, people like Benjamin Banneker, who was a farmer. And he had the Almanac, but he also built a clock. And he also knew, understood cosmology. And then he also understood architecture and design. And he wrote poetry. I mean, it's like.

We can be everything that we can imagine ourselves to be. And we don't have to be one dimensional. And even when the world is trying to put you in one box and say, this is all you can be, having the courage to refuse to be in that box, which can also inspire other people to.

allow themselves to fully develop, to be free, yes. But it's the discipline. These people got to the levels that they were, not because it was easy, but because they were willing to do the work without and before any lights, any so-called notoriety or fame, and even afterwards. Because for many of them, they did not

Adesoji Iginla (40:07.64)
be free.

Aya Fubara Eneli (40:34.855)
gain all of the accolades you know that maybe that they would do.

or if they did, it didn't last for any variety of reasons. And I think some of us quit too soon. Some of us don't, are not disciplined in the way that they should be. And I'm talking to myself as well. We make too many excuses. We limit, we put limits on ourselves. And these women, part of their resistance was taking the limits off, refusing to subject themselves to the limitations that others would impose.

on them and certainly not to impose limitations on themselves.

Adesoji Iginla (41:17.294)
So what you're advocating for there is a bit of a rebellious trick in this women, which brings us to the next group.

Aya Fubara Eneli (41:25.564)
We're only rebellious because we live in a world that doesn't want us to live free. Otherwise, why would me expressing who I am be so threatening to you that you've got to squash it? Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (41:34.674)
considered rebellious. So, I mean, on that fairly innocuous spirit, we go to the next segment, which is titled Legal Minds and Rebel Hearts. You've always wanted to speak about Pauli Mori, which is she comes in this group. And so it's Pauli Mori and Lucy Parsons.

Aya Fubara Eneli (41:56.796)
Good.

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:03.012)
Lucy Parsons, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (42:04.771)
Yes.

So.

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:08.062)
You want to refresh the listeners on who Lucy Parsons was?

Adesoji Iginla (42:14.638)
Okay, so Lucy Parsons would, I mean there's a book, the best description is the one that the Chicago police labeled her. She was considered more dangerous than a thousand rioters. She fought for workers rights, free speech, and was against state repression during the Haymarket affair. For those who don't know, that was the beginning of what you now know as the trade unions.

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:26.128)
Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:32.721)
Adesoji Iginla (42:44.802)
So despite her erasure, her anarchist vision still lives on. So which brings us to this question. How do women navigate the movements they find themselves in, especially when men are at the core of these groups, which is one thing Lucy Parsons sort of experienced.

pre and post the Haymarket effect.

Aya Fubara Eneli (43:17.682)
Yes, and again, for those who are just hearing her name, go research this lady. For those of us who have any labor rights that we have right now, an eight-hour workday, the right to take breaks, those kind of things did not just come about because capitalists were being benevolent. They had to be fought for. Every right that any of us benefits from today, someone sacrificed for it. And so for us to now enjoy those rights and then to feel, I'm so comfortable. I don't need to speak

Adesoji Iginla (43:27.448)
Mm-hmm. Bakes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (43:47.568)
because I'm afraid I'm going to lose them. That is incredibly selfish. What you see with all of these women was, is resistance through performance. They were out there performing, putting body and presence, speaking out, all of them, especially in the, those in the more recent times, surveilled by the

Adesoji Iginla (44:16.952)
the authorities.

Aya Fubara Eneli (44:17.102)
systems of their time, know, here for those in the US, definitely the FBI all over them. And yet, choosing to disrupt and to disrupt publicly.

Adesoji Iginla (44:34.094)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (44:35.452)
right, not just behind closed doors, not just on the internet, you know, all of our internet warriors. But in real life, you're doing absolutely nothing. Well, I shouldn't say absolutely, but you know, not doing as much as you can do. These women demonstrated a willingness to pay the cost for being exceptional in both.

Adesoji Iginla (44:41.112)
keyboard warriors.

Aya Fubara Eneli (45:02.718)
in all spaces, but certainly in what would be considered white spaces. They were just like, no, if we're going to live, then we're going to live for something. And I think it was Martin Luther King Jr. who said, until you...

until you find what you're willing to die for, I'm paraphrasing, you're not yet living. And so what is it that we are willing to die for? And so certainly Pauline Murray with the work that she did, and eventually even going into the priesthood was about trying to make sense of what would be the pathway for peace and liberation for people.

Adesoji Iginla (45:26.154)
If you, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (45:33.294)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (45:50.534)
and of course became the first African-American woman bishop, believe, in her, in, in, in,

Adesoji Iginla (45:56.142)
Yep, yeah. Episcopal. Yeah, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (46:01.384)
Psicopaic Church, yes. And Lucy Parsons, definitely one would argue ahead of her time, but then again, if you study history, not at all because there were women before her who also fought in their own ways. We're going to be next week, I think, talking about one of them who is one of the female pharaohs here in ancient Egypt. And so,

Adesoji Iginla (46:16.356)
yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (46:32.548)
Again, the lesson I take from these women is...

Aya Fubara Eneli (46:39.516)
willingness to stand for something and to understand that

it takes sacrifice to achieve whatever it is. There's a quote that comes to mind, let each woman remember her duty to liberate her land, her spirit and her people. And that's what I see each of these women doing in their own way, in their own time. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (47:13.966)
Okay, so one final question on that group. What would you say Lucy Parsons and Pauline Morrie did to speak out against double oppression? I'm sure you know what I mean by that. One, they were women and they were also black.

Aya Fubara Eneli (47:31.623)
Yeah.

Well, in the case of Lucy Parsons, I don't think she ever claimed that she was Black. She's an interesting character.

Adesoji Iginla (47:40.62)
Yeah, but I mean, the yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, she passed for white, as they would say. But to a larger extent, she is pigeonholed in non white. Yeah. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (47:51.422)
She's definitely considered non-white by many people where it's, we're very suspicious of her story. So ask the question again, what the double oppression that they were dealing with and how they faced that.

Adesoji Iginla (48:03.64)
So, yeah, how did they deal with the double oppression?

Aya Fubara Eneli (48:12.35)
probably the best that they could in that time. Lucy Parsons.

Adesoji Iginla (48:20.44)
She went into the clergy. She was effectively the first face polymory.

Aya Fubara Eneli (48:25.566)
No, you mean Polly? Yeah, she did. But she went into a lot of spaces where women were told they shouldn't be. So we know her story at Howard Law School is that she was basically fighting the black men in the group. like, wait a second, how are we supposed to be fighting Jim Crow? But at the same time,

Adesoji Iginla (48:45.293)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (48:48.12)
you guys are excluding me from things based on me being female. And of course she ended up graduating number one in her class and they did not want to make her Chief Justice, which was the norm for whoever was number one. And then eventually people could to be capitulated. And even with Brown B Board of Education initially, for the most part, people like Thorgan Marshall did not give her her flowers for the role that she played in in.

that argument on which desegregation really was argued and won. And we know that

Ruth Bader Ginsburg did give her credit when she used Pauli Mori's argument to advance women's rights. But even that was kind of buried because, we're going to hold up the white looking woman. We know she was Jewish, but we're not going to speak to this other lady. So that's Pauli Mori in the sense of Lucy Parsons.

maybe that was the reason why she felt, you know, being married to a white man gives you a certain level of protection. But I think she got to a place where it's like to hell with all of y'all, especially after her husband was executed. I will express myself sexually in the way that I want to. So there were some, you know, stories about her in that sense. You know, her sexual freedom, even though she was preaching, you know, purity for women, so to speak. But it was also her bold

Adesoji Iginla (50:20.482)
Celestial stories.

Aya Fubara Eneli (50:30.624)
in speaking up in so many forms and writing. She also was a writer. Writing or writing. You can go and read her speeches and read her writings, making her arguments and forcing.

in certain spaces for her voice to be heard. So there are a number of occasions where, she's invited, but you're not to speak. And she's like, no, I got something to say. I'm going to say it. And I think there are many times, and I'm speaking for myself here, where I'm in spaces where it's like, OK, don't ruffle any feathers. Don't rock the boat. This is not the time. And you talk yourself out of seizing the moment.

Adesoji Iginla (50:57.582)
to

Adesoji Iginla (51:14.808)
saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (51:15.872)
to speak up and I think the lesson from these women, not I think, I know that the lesson from these women is the time is now. I mean, yes, you move with wisdom, but the time is now. And.

Black women, women of African descent should not have to fight for quote unquote the race and be silent on patriarchy. Nor should we go to the other side where all we're doing is fighting.

for women's rights in humanity and then ignoring the issue of race, which is very important. And we can take it further for those who might want to fight for gay, lesbian, bisexual rights, not to say, okay, well then this is my one thing and I'm going to be quiet on race and gender. That again, if you're functioning as your full self,

Adesoji Iginla (52:14.328)
the order.

Adesoji Iginla (52:22.062)
You can do all of that.

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:22.492)
where does I'm African stop and I'm woman begin? I'm all of those things all at the same time, all the time. And so, yeah, unfortunately we then find ourselves having to fight on multiple fronts, but fight we must, otherwise we lose every battle.

Adesoji Iginla (52:32.49)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (52:48.334)
Okay, so we're fast reaching the close. Yeah, it's been an hour. In all these 13 women, what would you say you personally have learned, you personally have learned from these 13 women?

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:53.662)
my goodness.

Aya Fubara Eneli (53:08.862)
wow. I would say the first thing that I've learned is there is nothing that I'm dealing with that is brand new. You know what I'm saying? It's like, if you're ever, if you've ever had a pity party or if you've ever felt I can't, you go and read these women's stories and you're like, wait a second, what am I complaining about?

Adesoji Iginla (53:30.21)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (53:31.994)
you know, we have so many, of us, have access to so many more opportunities than they did. And look at what they were able to accomplish. And we have their stories to encourage us and to build on. And so the biggest thing for me has been now when things happen to me, and this is even as I say this, it's a real reminder for me, even when things happen to me not wanting to give up or not giving

giving, let me rephrase, not giving into the feeling of giving up. But to say, okay, this is actually not unique to me. Women who look like me have been fighting this for centuries. Don't take that as hopelessness again, but to know you're not alone, you're not crazy.

And yes, expect opposition because if these women were opposed in the way that they were, what makes you think it should just be easy peasy for you?

Adesoji Iginla (54:35.36)
Easy for you. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (54:41.36)
So that's the first lesson I would say is just understanding that whatever I'm dealing with is not unique and it's not unique to me and that other people have faced it and found ways to still make an impact and so can I. The other thing that I take away from these women is being about the work and not just the talk. Like these women put in the work, they put in the effort and they did it consistently and they did it against all kinds of odds.

Adesoji Iginla (55:07.416)
this part. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (55:10.462)
And so same thing is, what are you doing with your 24 hours? Yes, yes, we know you should sleep because your body needs rest to rejuvenate and all of that. But what else are you doing? And we are in a society, think now, I should stop saying I think, we're in a society where I know that so many of us are distracted, know, dump stuff like, oh, women love to shop, retail therapy. Like really, really? Capitalists got you in the, got your head all messed up.

Adesoji Iginla (55:15.022)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (55:38.424)
the truth in a choco. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (55:40.368)
that you're gonna work so hard and all you're gonna do is to feel better, is to give it away and to buy and buy and buy. Yeah, so, yes. So the discipline, having a purpose for your life. Like.

Adesoji Iginla (55:48.014)
Only to be told you still need some more.

Aya Fubara Eneli (55:56.702)
each of these women, even though it might have taken them a while to figure it out. You look at Andrea Bluene, how she started and how she ended look very different, right? You know, at one point, kind of chasing snow buddies because that seemed like the path to a decent life, which was understandable given, again, like Bessie had an incredibly traumatic childhood, incredibly traumatic childhood. But then realizing, no, there is a purpose for my life.

and I'm willing to risk my life, which she did, to fulfill that purpose. And even after the world forgets me, even after what I've done, I'm still finding a way. So she still wrote this biography, which makes all the difference. So again, whether we're looking at Amad Tayedow, whether we're looking at...

Nina Simone, whether we are looking at Winnie Mandela, Gwendolyn Brooke, all of these women that we've mentioned, these are women who we're like, beyond the pain, there is purpose. And I'm focused on that purpose. Whatever path I have to take, glass I have to walk over, I'll crawl over.

this is the work that I came to do. So I ask myself, what is the work that you've come to do? And I'll share this in very practical terms. I know as we wrap up here, I am in Kemet in Egypt. It's not an inexpensive trip. And while I've been here, there've been multiple opportunities to do some other things, buy this or experience this other thing or even lunch.

So our initial amount that was paid covers breakfast and dinner, but lunch, we're typically out at sites and everything. So lunches, you you pay for yourself. Now, I pretty much just looked at the cost of what lunch is and being very transparent here and I'm like, we've got salaries of like 28 people to pay each month. For those of you who are aware, I

Adesoji Iginla (57:55.266)
No discretion, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (58:13.946)
assist with the library and a school in Opomo in Nigeria. This one lunch that I'm going to have will cover the salary for a teacher for a whole month. I can skip lunch. Like my body would be just fine eating two meals a day.

Adesoji Iginla (58:29.966)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (58:37.948)
Those are literally like, I mean, like for some people it's like, that's not a big sacrifice. You already flew and you went to Egypt and how many people get to do that? I get it. But for me that it's those simple things. It's just like, okay, this money could cover a salary and that person's salary is feeding a family. That person's salary is allowing them to come to school and to educate these kids.

Adesoji Iginla (58:39.874)
sacrifices yeah

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:06.222)
So we're going to skip lunch. We're going to skip.

some of the frou frou things that we do. And I'm not saying that everybody needs to that. Everybody needs to figure out what their thing is. But I'm just giving an example of how that shows up in my life. It's like, yeah, I could watch TikTok or watch some movie, or I can read this book because I need this information, because I need to be able to communicate some things. I can sleep or work on my business, or I can go knock on doors.

Adesoji Iginla (59:16.16)
is not necessary. Yeah, yeah, it's just priorities. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:41.744)
to encourage people to go out to vote. So we each need to be asking ourselves, what are we doing with this life that we have and what legacy do we want to leave? And I don't know that any of these women necessarily sat down and said, well, this is the legacy I want to live. But I think that maybe they did. That maybe they said, you know what? I'm going to die standing up.

I'm going to stand up for something. Whether the world remembers me or not, whether the world celebrates me or not is not relevant. What's important is I made my life count. I didn't just come here and eat and excrete and die.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:14.2)
probably so.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:29.518)
and all the foo foo.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:34.556)
to be trying to be a little classy about it but yeah so what what are you gonna do with this one life you've been given yeah

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:42.498)
Mm-mm. So,

Would you care to share with the audience what goes into your preparations for your preparations every time we have a new person? Bearing in mind, we're going to be speaking about Hepsisuit next week. Hepsisuit, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:01:06.398)
Hatchimson, Hatchimson next week. You know what? I actually have a little concern every time we choose someone to cover. So some of you have heard this story. I love history.

And I also do a lot of motivational speaking and most of my books are along that self-help line. And what I wanted to do was to combine both. I wanted to find a way to share history and encouragement for women and also

motivate us to do a little bit more, right? So my idea, okay, I'm not going to say the idea because somebody's going to listen and then go do it before I execute. But anyway, so I started to read and study and take notes on these women. And of course, I was having a conversation with you. You're like, we should do this. And I was like, I'm not ready. But anyway, so here we are. doing it. And I don't know how many episodes we're in now. Like, how many women have we covered?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:46.734)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:06.254)
that's 26 now. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:02:09.406)
26 women, amazing. So anyway, so let me start with the very first one, Billie Holiday. So part of my process, of course, I'm reading their biography. If they wrote anything about themselves, I want to start with that, right? Then I might read what other people are saying about them. Now, in the case of Billie Holiday, there's so many biographies on her.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:16.866)
Billy Hogan, yeah, with the flower.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:26.498)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:02:33.532)
So I think I may have read like four or so, like skimmed through some more. I watched every documentary on her. I basically immersed myself in her music and her performances for weeks. You know, if I'm driving, I'm listening to Billie Holiday. If I'm going to sleep, I'm listening to Billie Holiday. And what happens, which was not what my original intention was, is that I feel like their spirit just comes and sits with me, right?

And so in the case of Billie Holiday, I was actually racing back from court to get home in time to do this recording with you. And there's no one in the car but me. And I swear I hear this voice like, so what, you're just going to get on there and just talk about me? I was like, what? You're not even going to wear a gardenia? And I'm like, are you serious? What?

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:22.638)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:03:30.662)
And so as I'm driving, start calling florists in my area to see if anyone has a gardenia. Nobody has a gardenia. I stopped at this store that sells fake flowers and stuff. They don't have a gardenia. She's like, you can't just, do you know who I am? I'm Billie Holiday. So I ended up just getting a white flower.

And I get home and I'm rushing. She's like, you gotta, so I'm looking for like a strapless gown and the diamonds and all of this stuff. And I did not know what to expect. I had my notes of what I was going to share about her life. But I really feel like with each of these women, they just rise up. Now I'm not a trained actress, so can't necessarily do their voices and no, don't have, you know, a wardrobe of a budget and all of that, but.

Each of them, I feel, wants me to.

So the goal was to speak about them, not to speak in their voice. But Billie Holiday got the ball rolling and she was just like, no, you're going to embody me. And that has been the case. Now with some of them, like when we did Nina Simone, I was like depressed for a week.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:28.43)
Thank

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:04:43.142)
depressed and angry at the same time. Her energy is very strident. Like she's still, she's still fighting wherever she is. Yes, like she's taking no prisoners. She's saying it as it is. And I had to like, okay, bottle that in, save that for when we talked and not use that on my kids or my husband in courts. You know, that kind of thing.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:52.012)
I mean, you watch her interviews alone. It comes out.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:12.926)
Or like when we did Nanny, like I really feel like their spirits rise up in me and sometimes it's a little scary because I may not be able to control it. Who was it that I did and I was trembling the whole time?

And I actually had to do a cleanse after it to like, okay, you gotta leave it. I know this sounds kind of crazy to some people, but think about it. Like if you go to church and there's certain music played, those of you who just watch Sinners, you feel a spirit come over you. These things are real. So one, it's a lot of reading, a lot of reading, a lot of reading.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:45.058)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:51.83)
lot of reading. Yeah, three times.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:55.678)
And some of them are a little bit more obscure, so it's harder to find information about them. So it's research. And then you've got to double check because there's some false information out there as well. For those who have recordings or movies or documentaries that have been done on, it's watching, sitting, listening to what is shared, but what isn't. Like whose voice is not heard as well in the case of Andre Bluene as well.

But then also having fun with them. know, like I wore the sunglasses for Andre Bluene because that woman was, my God, she was smart. Yeah, the cigarette with Laurie Hansberry was fun. was like, this is a lot of work. It's a lot of work to just hold that cigarette. This is crazy. So it's been fun. It's been enlightening.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:29.71)
You held a cigarette for...

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:38.837)
Larry Hasberry,

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:51.932)
But it's also been, you know, I hear that song from Whitney Houston. Well, I guess it was Shaka Khan first. I'm every woman. It's all in me. Listen, not taking anything away from men because you guys are all amazing as well. But women, when you really think about who we are and how our bodies are made and what we're able to do.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:00.533)
Every woman. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:07:16.12)
The only word that comes to mind is divine. So yes, a lot of reading, a lot of sitting with the spirit. There was one, gosh, who was it?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:07:29.278)
I'm not recalling exactly, but like up to an hour before we were supposed to get started, she was like, no, I'm not doing this with you. Don't talk for me. Don't. And I was like, what was it Tony? Yeah. So I ended.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:46.734)
That was when we had the thunder strike.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:07:53.586)
Yes So I ended up going to the lake pouring libation You know, and I think she felt like I wasn't as prepared as I could be and I was like I'm not I cannot be an expert of all of you. I'm just Maybe for some people reminding them about you for some people introducing you to them and then they can go and do more research I'm not right, but she had an attitude with me

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:08.046)
That was.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:20.888)
That was the one way. That was one way.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:08:21.178)
I was like, my God. Yeah. And then we, and yes, and then we have the thunderstump. was like, hey, I know what you're doing. Click, we're turning this off. Literally, literally, literally. Yeah. We didn't complete that one.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:34.158)
Yeah, yeah, half done. So it's technically 26 and a half. So she will be the half. It's 26 and a half.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:08:42.854)
Yeah, that was that. you for reminding me. She was I was like, I got the wig. You know, yeah, I got the the afro wig. My daughter had it from something else you've done. And I remember that. But she was just battling me the whole time. I was like, well, hey. And then, yeah, thunderstorm and the Internet went out and I couldn't get back on. Let me see. Lorna says.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:48.133)
Hahaha.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:58.942)
It was dedicated by my hair.

Mm. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:09.244)
Learning about these women of resistance gives me encouragement. She thanks both of us. Thank you, Lorna. We feel it when you get in character. You're such a blessing to these answers. Thank you, thank you. She says you aced Nina Simone. I watched it twice. Yeah, Nina's energy was ridiculous.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:14.179)
Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:22.421)
Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:26.774)
I mean, the woman is... Yeah, yeah. Listening to our interview alone, you get a sense that what it would have been like being around her. You'll have been, yes. I can see you over there. You look very ravishing.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:29.624)
She was a whirlwind. She was a whirlwind.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:40.86)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:53.096)
She was definitely gonna speak her mind. So even like when we did Miriam Makeba, she has a very sweet spirit. But that exile really impacted her. Yeah, it really did. She never told, and when her daughter died,

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:55.086)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:06.082)
really crushed that. Yeah, it crushed that. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:10:13.616)
it was really hard for her to continue with life. But she did, she persevered. And of course we know worked on right to the end, died literally a few steps from the stage. Yeah, yeah. So, but definitely they say, there's a saying that we die twice. One when we...

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:22.184)
Yeah, she died. She died singing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:10:38.44)
physically die and make our transition into when people stop calling our names. And so the sense that I've gotten from this, these women is also just besides mama, Tony Kade is gratitude, you know, for, keeping their names alive. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:44.174)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:53.708)
Yeah, she moved different. She moved different. And so yes, it's on to the next 13. Next week, you want to tell the audience who were.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:11:07.666)
Well, you know, so next week we are hoping that it's gonna be Hatshepsut. I'm going to her temple. We've already seen so much of her at the museums that we've already been to. Right now, her energy has not given me an okay yet, but we still have a week to go.

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:29.901)
Aya Fubara Eneli (01:11:33.562)
So we'll see, she's already, I think she might change her mind, but she's already said, don't even try to dress up like me. And I was like, you know, because then I'll have to find that beard and all of that stuff. don't know. So the goal is Hatshepsut next week while I'm still here in Egypt. And that's going to be interesting because

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:42.836)
I got you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:49.389)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:11:59.068)
the energy and it's almost a full moon and there's just a lot going on. And so we shall see. At any rate, we will talk about her however she wants to be talked about, we hope. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:16.044)
Yes, yes. Thank you to you. On to the next.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:12:21.576)
Thank you to you. This wouldn't be happening without you. So thank you to you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:24.618)
Now, well, thank you for allowing it to happen because it's one thing for you want to speak to what they intend to do. It's another thing allowing somebody else to, you know, nod you in that direction. Let's just say that.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:12:39.774)
Well, well, and since we're being relatively informal today, people should know like you want an Adesoji in your life. He's, he's on a very personal note. My brother, I'm third in my family, he was number four, became an ancestor in 2021. And I really feel like God was like, okay, we're to give you

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:48.446)
God.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:13:08.814)
we're going to give you another brother. It doesn't replace your brother, but we're going to help you out here. And so, he's truly like a brother from another mother to me. And he's just so pushy. Like, you want people in your life that, and I think you see that also in the lives of the women that we've talked to, we've talked about.

is they did not move alone and they had some community at different points in life. There were different people who motivated them and kicked them in the butt and supported them to some extent. Even though they were also intense moments of loneliness for most of them. And so you want someone like a deserger in your life who says, okay, that's just not going to be an idea. That's not going to be something you're talking about. Like we're going to do it. And here's the date.

and we're pressing record and you're like, oh my God, I have to, you know, like get it. Cause I probably, I not I probably, would, I know I would not have been doing this. You know, I didn't think I had the time. I did, you know, I had all kinds of reasons why this was not the time. Yeah, you, you made it happen and I don't like you, but I appreciate you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:08.3)
Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:26.702)
I know, I know, I know, know. mean, when that first list of 10 came your way, you're probably screaming your head out like, what? Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:14:36.742)
Yeah, and there are times when I'm like, how am gonna read all these books? You know, some are refreshes, but some I'm reading for the, I'm like, my God, because it's every seven days. And I have this other life and other things, but like, okay, we're gonna do it. So it's great to have someone like you who doesn't take no for an answer. And yeah, thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:40.334)
Y-

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:46.604)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:00.044)
Yep.

No, you're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. Glad to be of help. Glad to be of help. Because I find oftentimes what happens is reading Aiku Amaa, you find if you just listen, not just even read the books, sometimes just listen to yourself read the book, you find there's an element of loneliness in

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:15:09.288)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:33.118)
vision he holds. holds a vision that things can be like this but because you don't have that support structure you find you're just traveling down that road and sometimes the anger or the disappointment also comes out in said writing. You see it and you know so

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:15:50.994)
Yeah, yeah. So I have to ask you a question. What has been the impact on you hearing all these stories being part of this?

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:03.982)
So for me, it's not just the fact that they were women, it's the fact that they were black women.

I mean, let us settle in. Everywhere these people have been, they've been impacted by things that were completely out of their control. But despite that, they've said, you know what? I am going to tunnel, thunder through this thing and nothing. So sometimes you find, even when it seems as if the odds are real, what's the lady we did, the Haitian lady?

my name escapes me now where she knew she said she looked around her they didn't have they didn't have that many bullets but she looked to the men and she told them we are going to battle through this half of the problems we have in the world

can be won just by a change of mindset. Because we have this thing about, what am I going to do? What can I do? know? Exactly. But sometimes, you know, like, you know what? I am willing to sacrifice myself for this thing. Because after the times, the people who oppress you or who exploit you exploit you because

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:17:19.42)
or we're waiting for someone else to do it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:37.806)
They have this feeling that you're not gonna fight back.

And so they ride on it. And you know what a bully does when a bully can get away with something. He's not going to leave you just because he did it the first time. Keep coming back, coming back. So for me, the lesson I take from it is the resilience. That resilience is like, you know what? I am going to do this. I am regardless. Lucy Parsons.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:18:00.446)
See

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:18:08.638)
So how have you felt when we talk about the aspects of these women's lives of that double oppression, of their relationships with men? How have you felt about almost the recurring theme with how men are interacting with women and interacting with black women?

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:24.332)
Yeah, yeah, I mean.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:31.146)
Again, you know, not making excuses. Again, the way you the way society has socialized the two genders, first and foremost, is you've been told you can be like us if you do certain things. Now, the question is, who is us? You are only as good as what they allow you to be.

But here are the women telling you, no, I'm not going to take somebody's seconds. I am going to be a first in my own right. And so basically, this is what we're going to do. And like you were saying earlier, it's not just the women that will say, get back in line. It's the men that will also say, get back in line. And so you find oftentimes they're not, it's the men who are

even they are the invisible guardians of colonialism, of imperialism, they're there, they're like constantly telling you this is your role, that is your role. I was talking to somebody the other day and they mentioned this thing that

We often look at the world through the lens of those who have oppressed us until you get a redress which regards to the mindset. All your problems will continue as long as you see you have that focus that you talked about earlier. You work all the time. And for you to relax,

You go and spend the money to relax, only to go back and work. you have this circle of... You know, so it's mind boggling that sometimes you just need to sit still, which brings us back to what we do here. The reading allows you to sit still and then you can even... You then notice things that have been around you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:49.15)
all this while they're like, that's there. That's there. This is there. this is why this happens. That is why this happens, you know, instead of constant churning, you know. So for me, it's what I've gained is the ability to further see still. That's one. And two is also to learn from the women.

as to

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:21:19.582)
Well, but you've been learning from women because I know that you've talked about your grandmother's impact on your life. Yeah, so that makes a difference.

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:25.518)
God. Mm. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So you, you get a sense that that is an added bonus. I mean, sometimes just listen to the women. Just listen. You know.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:21:44.252)
Listen to us, not sometimes, all the time. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, I get what you're

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:48.054)
Yeah, but you know, I'm just saying, I mean, you're not going to be around them all the time. But when you do, just listen. Just, you know, just listen. And you're getting something. So, So.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:21:57.64)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:22:03.322)
All right, let's see if there are any other comments before we sign off here. someone says you seem so sweet and so very smart.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:06.19)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:14.222)
thank you.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:22:21.35)
Yeah, so what I think some of you have been here from it seems like day one actually here in Egypt I've met Lisa she introduced herself and she says I'm the one who's always typing I watch you guys she's probably asleep now because it's Three almost 3 30 here And we were up early and we got in late and we got to be up tomorrow morning by God's good. Well up later this morning

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:36.886)
It's two, three, yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:22:47.55)
But so we're very grateful for all of you who've watched and given feedback and it makes the work. I mean, it's work I would do anyway, but it's certainly helpful to know we're not just talking to ourselves.

Adesoji Iginla (01:23:00.992)
ourselves.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:23:04.921)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:23:06.574)
That's true, that's That's true, you know. It's yeah. So that said, we're doing who we do next week. OK. Yeah, if you get the if you get the permission to do it, yeah, we'll be doing the episode and yeah, do all the good stuff. Share, like, subscribe and until next week.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:23:18.654)
by God's grace.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:23:37.406)
Thank you, appreciate you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:23:38.988)
Until next week, it's a good night and God bless.