EP 12 Mary Ellen Pleasant - Funding Our Freedom I Women And Resistance 🌍

This week's conversation, featuring Aya Fubara Eneli Esq. and Adesoji Iginla,  delves into the life and legacy of Mary Ellen Pleasant, a prominent figure in the abolitionist movement and a successful entrepreneur in 19th-century San Francisco. 

The discussion explores her contributions to the civil rights movement, the controversies surrounding her life, and her views on capitalism as a means of empowerment for the African American community.

Takeaways

*Mary Ellen Pleasant's legacy is often overshadowed by others in history.
*She was a successful entrepreneur before Madam C.J. Walker.
*Pleasant's life was filled with mystery and controversy.
*She played a significant role in the abolitionist movement.
*Her wealth was used to support civil rights causes.
*Pleasant faced racial and gender discrimination throughout her life.
*She was involved in various business ventures, including laundries and boarding houses.
*Her contributions to civil rights included legal battles against segregation.
*Pleasant's story highlights the complexities of race and identity in America.
*She believed in using capitalism for the empowerment of her community.

Chapters

00:00 The Legacy of Mary Ellen Pleasant
03:04 Identity and Mystery
05:57 Entrepreneurial Journey and Success
08:46 The Role of Race and Perception
11:34 Abolitionist Efforts and Community Impact
14:55 Funding Freedom: John Brown and Beyond
17:33 The Power of Secrets and Knowledge
20:51 Challenges and Controversies
23:44 Reflections on Legacy and Impact
29:23 The Chatham Vigilance Committee and Abolitionist Legacy
32:12 Personal Narratives and Historical Evidence
34:13 Entrepreneurship and Community Empowerment
36:36 Legal Battles and Civil Rights Advocacy
39:19 Motherhood, Reputation, and Racial Narratives
42:39 The House of Mystery and Public Scrutiny
46:47 The Death of Thomas Bell and Accusations
49:36 The Bell Estate and Financial Struggles
51:29 Legacy and the Role of Capitalism in Activism

Welcome  to Women and Resistance, a powerful podcast where we honour the courage, resilience, and revolutionary spirit of women across the globe. Hosted by Aya Fubara Eneli Esq and Adesoji Iginla...

You're listening to Women and Resistance with Aya Fubara Eneli Esq and Adesoji Iginla—where we honour the voices of women who have shaped history through courage and defiance...Now, back to the conversation.

That’s it for this episode of Women and Resistance. Thank you for joining us in amplifying the voices of women who challenge injustice and change the course of history. Be sure to subscribe, share, and continue the conversation. Together We Honour the past, act in the present, and shape the future. Until next time, stay inspired and stay in resistance!

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:00.098)
My entrepreneurial successes preceded the woman who is heralded as the first Negro millionaire, and that would be Madam C.J. Walker. I don't say that to in any way discredit her significant accomplishments, but only to say that there is much about ourselves that we still don't know, much that is still shrouded like me.

in mystery that whatever for the young women and even young men listening to me of Negro descent, whatever you dream of, you need not wait for permission. You need not wait for proof that someone of your race has done it because I assure you that someone indeed has. Yes. Greetings, greetings and welcome to another episode of Women and Resistance.

I am a co-host, Ade-Sodji Ginla, and as usual, we are looking at the lives and times of a very trusting woman, one that should echo with the likes of Harriet Tubman. But before we do that, let's bring our guest on. That will be Mary Ellen Pleasant. Welcome, ma'am. Good evening. Yeah, good evening. And for those who are probably setting their eyes on you for the very first time, could you tell us...

a little bit about yourself. You will not be the first? Well, you are not the first, and you will not be the last. Inquire as to who I am. And the answers are as varied. The trees, the plants, the waters, the very air itself. Everyone tends to look at me and decide who I am through their own lens. There are many stories which I will share without.

confirming or denying any. Well, maybe a couple. Some say I was born a slave in Georgia. Some say my mother was a big towering figure of a Negress and my father was a governor. Some have other tales. I say I was never enslaved. I say my mother was a proud

Adesoji Iginla (02:25.164)
Negros from Louisiana and my father was Hawaiian. I have told some stories, I have denied some stories and still over a hundred years since my transition, people continue to search for what might be true. They continue to search the annals. What is clear is that

As a young child, I was not raised. I did not live with my biological parents. I eventually lived with the Hussies in Nantucket. This was a Quaker family. While my parents had given money and resources for my education,

The Hussies chose not to spend that money on my education. And so I was, as they would say, on school. I say I was born on August 1814. Some say it was 1817. Some say that my mother was not from Louisiana, but rather she was a Caribbean Voodoo priestess. And I come from a long line of Voodoo priestesses. Whatever story you hear,

You must put it in the context of the history of the United States of America, the history of black people in the United States of America, the history of women in the United States of America. My father was a native Kanaka. He was Hawaiian. Both of them were large frame, but I think I got my physical strength from my father.

who I describe as a giant in frame. My father's name was Louis Alexander Williams, and I was named after my mother. My father was a commercial man who imported silks from India. I don't think my mother was as well educated as my father, but I don't remember her writing me any letters. I say I was born in Philadelphia at a time where we had a thriving

Adesoji Iginla (04:35.865)
community of freed blacks. Some researchers say that it is quite possible that a Pacific Islander named Louis Alexander Williams and a free black woman from Louisiana became the parents of a baby girl in Philadelphia. Did you know that back then Pacific Islanders on the census were listed as white? Interesting. Now some have done the research and they have said that according to the US census,

There was an Alexander Williams living in Philadelphia in 1810 and 1820.

He's listed as a white man. I don't recall those early years. I recall more my time in the island of Nantucket off the coast of Massachusetts. I would not be the first or the last of members, children of the Negro race that did not grow up with their own. The very celebrated Frederick Douglass did not grow up with his family.

Now, a lady who made a lot of money off of my name named Holdridge, Helen Holdridge, she wrote the book, Pleasant, to even name a book that tells, supposes to tell my story, Mommy Pleasant, is a profound slap in my face because I gave an interview in San Francisco to the papers and I told them in no uncertain terms.

I am not Mamie Pleasant, that is not my name. I am Mamie to some, but not to everyone. In fact, there was a priest who wrote me a letter and he addressed it to Mamie Pleasant. I would not so much as waste my own paper on him. And I wrote a note back on his own paper and told him that was not my name. I am Mary Ellen Pleasant and I sent it back to him. But this Helen.

Adesoji Iginla (06:35.772)
Coldridge character who not only wrote a book about Mamie Pleasant, she wrote about Mamie Pleasant and her partner. You will hear more about this. She wrote about Mamie Pleasant and my recipes because I was a very well known cook renowned for my skill. She tells a version that I was bought by America's Price, a Mizoran.

for $600 and sent to New Orleans. And that there I was educated by nuns at St. Salins' convent. Well, their convent. But because it was too dangerous to have a literate negros, I was moved to Cincinnati to live with dear friends. And those friends were called Mr. and Mrs. Lewis Alexander Williams. Moved as a bond servant to these friends when Price died a few years later.

It claims that then I was shipped off to Nantucket to serve the Hussies. Whether or not I was ever enslaved will continue to be one of debate. Of course, you must know that in those times it did not serve me to be considered once enslaved as that spoke to your pedigree and to your level of intelligence and impacted even what doors opened to you. Many though,

reveled in this idea that I was indeed born in slavery because it provided a different narrative, one of hope that someone born in slavery could rise to the heights that I did, drawing attention to the distance that I had traveled in their minds literally and figuratively from enslavement.

to becoming, it all accounts, the wealthiest woman in San Francisco, negrous, white, or otherwise. There was much debate about not just my race, but even my color. How is it that one woman is described as being light enough to pass for white by sun and simultaneously described by others as coal black?

Adesoji Iginla (08:58.52)
As I stated earlier, it seems that people have narrated me through their own lenses, whatever they may be. Of course, we know that for 19th century Americans, skin color served as an index for a range of attributes, including level of education, sophistication, intelligence, and even your ability to control yourself. Of course, the darker you were,

supposedly the more barbaric you were. Never mind that those who offered and carried out the most barbaric acts in the history of what is now called the United States of America were indeed of the lightest skin hue, commonly known as white, the projection. Some describe me as being tall and striking and very light skinned and beautiful.

and that I used my physical beauty and my skills as a voodoo priestess to enthrall and entrench and control the most powerful white men in San Francisco. But others have said, in fact, Halle Q. Brown, who was a lecturer and one-time president of the National Association of Colored Women, who met me when I was 80 years old on the 18th.

She described me as follows. She came forward and made herself known. She was not a beauty, as some have written. She was rather tall, slender with sharp features, keen black eyes, very dark, almost black. She wore a purple silk dress, black velvet cape, a purple bonnet and strings tied under her neck. Others said, I had one blue eye.

and one brown, others said I was brown skinned. I am not at all upset about all the mystery regarding me. And in fact, my mansion became known as the House of Mystery. Did I tell you yet that I had a home built, constructed in 1877 that had 30 rooms in it?

Adesoji Iginla (11:16.53)
and at that time was considered worth over $100,000. The disagreements about the color of my skin mirror all of the mysteries that people have caused to swirl around me. Some may say that I have caused myself. Of course, the San Francisco press towards the end of my life depicted me as a wizened old woman in a bonnet. There are other pictures of me

In fact, that have been widely circulated that show me as very pale, regal, dressed in the height of fashion for the times. But some say that that is indeed not a picture of me, but of Princess Emma from Hawaii, who had visited San Francisco and had gotten her picture taken at the same studio where I got my picture taken.

This was Queen Emma of the Hawaiian Islands, wife of King Kamehameha. And there was much research done into that as well. Was it mere coincidence that two women were photographed in the same studio? Is that picture me or not? What do I care? And quite frankly, what do you care what I looked like? When I lived in Nattucket, what I lost or did not receive in terms of a formal education,

I made up in terms of studying and understanding commerce and understanding people. I have come to find that there are many people with degrees who are rather dull. They have no understanding of human beings and what makes people tick. That was something that I excelled in. I should know.

that while many might be hearing of me for the very first time, my entrepreneurial successes preceded the woman who is heralded as the first Negro millionaire, and that would be Madam C.J. Walker. I don't say that to in any way discredit her significant accomplishments, but only to say that there is much about ourselves that we still don't know.

Adesoji Iginla (13:42.574)
much that is still shrouded like me in mystery, but that whatever for the young women and even young men listening to me of Negro descent, whatever you dream of, you need not wait for permission. You need not wait for proof that someone of your race has done it, because I assure you that someone indeed has. As you, no doubt.

inspired by the little I was here about myself today. As you no doubt decide to do a little bit more research about me, because what educated person, what curious person would choose not to. I caution you to pay attention to your sources. The woman, Holdridge, whom I've mentioned and probably will try not to mention again, who wrote the book Mammy Pleasant, also had this to say.

When she finally located a man who claimed to have a photograph of me, she said, yes, indeed, Mr. Coon had a picture of a coon. The man's name was supposedly Coon. And so how much credence will you give to her interpretation of my life? She who saw me as a coon. In addition to

This unpleasant moniker that they have attempted to slap on me, me pleasant. Of course, the other major issue that would come into play in my latter years is this idea that I had supernatural powers that they described as voodoo or hoodoo or conjuring. In my obituaries in the San Francisco press, they described me as a Negro.

priestess and a voodoo queen. Well, what is voodoo? If voodoo signals that I was a gatherer and keeper of secret knowledge and that secrets were precisely the kind of contraband that I collected from my various boarding houses or as a cook who was often privy to men of stature spilling their guts. I learned to make myself invisible.

Adesoji Iginla (16:07.065)
And when people don't see you and don't consider you of any intelligence or consequence, they will talk rather freely around you. Even long after I had amassed a fortune, I continued by choice to work as a domestic servant for many, two in particular, well-to-do white families. Why? I had left Nantucket. I was now in San Francisco.

My husband, my second husband, will tell you about the first one shortly. John Pleasant was a seaman. He was a cook. We often didn't live together because I lived as a domestic and he lived on the ships. But San Francisco was a place and a time where the gold rush had many people, white people in particular, but increasingly also people of other backgrounds and races.

pouring in to make their fortune and I, collecting the secrets of these men, was able to invest my money in the same things they invested their money in.

and make a fortune. But let me go back. The Quakers were deeply involved in the abolitionist movement. I was very much immersed in that world. Some of you may have heard of Paul Cuffee, and that was one of my associates. got to listen and hear from him. And I got involved in abolition work. Smith was my first husband, and he was also very active in abolitionist work as well.

Some say we had a child named Elizabeth Smith. Others say that child was born to me and my second husband. James Smith was engaged. My first husband was engaged in the Underground Railroad activity in the East. We worked side by side to help free our people, to help support those who were recently

Adesoji Iginla (18:19.769)
freed who had escaped slavery. Unfortunately, he died within four years of our marriage and I had to end back on my life initially as a single woman. It is rumored that he left me a fortune. Even W.E. Du Bois says it was in the region of $50,000. Others have disputed that.

maybe 15,000, maybe 30,000. Again, what does it matter the exact figure? As many of you, and I hope this does not come up offensive, can understand that 15, 30, 40, 50,000 is still something that most Black Americans and many Americans still don't have access to today. And so for me to have

access to those resources in the East. Whatever figure you put it at was pretty significant. Say that I then married John Pleasant, that we left our young daughter with friends because we were making our way to San Francisco and we needed to find our way and to secure a living before we brought a young child.

Some say I traveled alone and then my husband came. I say I arrived in San Francisco in 1849. Others dispute this date and state that it was 1852. Again, what does it matter? Some say that I took the long route to get to San Francisco. Yes, indeed, going through New Orleans and

It was a four month trip because I was trying to escape the authorities who were hot on my trail for my work in the abolition movement. Perhaps what is true of that time and should be true for those of you who today are continuing the work to fight for the freedom of black people and all people. Is that a little bit of mystery? It's to your advantage. How?

Adesoji Iginla (20:45.079)
Do you fight these battles while exposing everything about yourself? Makes no sense, does it? And I arrived in San Francisco at a time where there were fewer than 500 black people in San Francisco. And the black men outnumbered the black woman three to one. There was plenty of work. They call us lazy, but they can't wait to employ us to do the jobs.

that they are too feeble and too lazy to do themselves. It is said that I presented myself as a beyond excellent cook and that there was a bid for my services and the winner bid $500. That was the winning bid. Whatever the case, I proved myself time and time again. And the establishment where I held Sway as Cook was

always filled to the rafters. People enjoyed my cooking. They drank and they liberally spilled their guts. I came to know not just about their business and their investments and how to think through what was coming. Some today might call it insider trading. I also came to know about the more salacious parts of who these people were. You know, sex.

has probably always been the primary commodity. Particularly in here, the United States of America, with these so-called Puritans, they needed outlets for their more barbaric thoughts and acts, of which I was privy. What is known is that I did own laundering, laundries. In this time, people had to go to public laundries to get their clothes washed.

It was a very lucrative business. I also opened boarding houses because again, as people rushed to San Francisco, they needed places to stay. I learned how to identify real estate and I also had ownership stakes in restaurants as well. I did eventually close my laundries. And at the time that I did, 85 % of the laundries in San Francisco

Adesoji Iginla (23:08.545)
were owned by the Chinese. Would you like to know why? Please don't. The Chinese too had come seeking their fortune in the gold rush. But there was a foreign miners act that taxed them at rates that made it very difficult for them to realize a decent profit from their mining activities. And so

They saw laundries as a way to still make a significant living from miners. And that history remains. I would love to hear. I understand that with your technology today, there are people here who can tell you what they're thinking as I'm speaking. How many of the laundromats, how many of the dry cleaning services in your community?

are owned by people of Asian descent. And please feel free to tell us what community you reside in. You see, there are things that are right before you that you have not had the curiosity to examine why. It's also accused of being a madam, of running prostitutes, of owning brothels. I'm not even certain that that dignifies a response.

from me. It is curious to me that in this day and age in which you all live, there are plenty well-heeled, well-respected individuals who own all kinds of, what do you all call it now, pornography sites who peddle and make great income from, what do you call it, OnlyFans? So once you legitimize it,

or once you sufficiently hide behind corporate names and the such, those people are sanitized. They're probably sitting in the front pews of your churches. They might be in your Congress. As a matter of fact, they might be sitting in what's left of your White House. I don't know. I'm speculating in the same manner that others have speculated.

Adesoji Iginla (25:34.101)
about me. But let me tell you something that I am incredibly proud of. Well, a number of things. Whatever they say I am and whoever they call me, because one of my other names is Mother of Civil Rights in California. What is clear is that I used my intellect and the privilege of my resources to free my people. It is well documented that my second husband and I

traveled to Chatham, Canada and that we were part of a committee of 14 who met with and supported John Brown. I bet you know that name. Yes. Or perhaps you have heard of Harper's Ferry. O'Brien, yeah. What is proven is that I funded John Brown and his very ambitious goal.

to free my enslaved brothers and sisters in the South. Research has been done to show that before I traveled to Canada, I changed a large sum of money into Canadian money. Now some have subsequently tried to claim that it was not my money. I invested $30,000 at that time.

in what is now called John Brown's raid. Some, after the fact, say that it was not my money, that it was indeed donations given by various Blacks, San Franciscans, and that I merely had collected the money to pass on. Again, what difference does it make? The fact that I had the mindset, the courage, the fortitude, the ab-

ability to do such a thing back then should be enough. For those who dare to disparage my name or my legacy, I have but one question. And what have you done with your life? Now, John Brown. In addition to funding that liberation cause, a liberation cause that we still need to fund today and many of you listening probably don't even contribute a

Adesoji Iginla (27:59.127)
Farthing 2.

in any way. I fought in being a Some being a penny. Some say that I also served as a jockey. And in that role, I dressed as a jockey and drove through various plantations in the South, alerting the enslaved about what was to come to prepare them so that when the hour arose, they would be ready to rise up and strike.

Well, I neither. I give it no credence. I don't refute it. You do you think through it yourself. That would have required some daring, but of course we know what Harriet Tubman, whom I knew personally, did. And she did make her way through various plantations. But whatever the case might be, John Brown jumped the gun literally and figuratively. He struck before

for the agreed upon time. And that attempt to free slaves became, the enslaved became, a huge fiasco. But that it had worked out differently, we would most definitely be telling a different story today. He was hanged, executed, along with 10 other men, including two of his sons. It is reported.

that in his pocket they found a note and that the note was signed UEP. Well, that note was actually from me and because of my poor penmanship, MEP was read as UEP. And of course, they attributed anyone being able to fund and support him at that level as most likely a white man. I should tell you,

Adesoji Iginla (29:58.732)
that members of the Chatham Vigilance Committee that I talked to you about, that my husband and I joined, included some of the best known Black American leaders of the time. Martin Delaney, Mary Ann Shadcarry, William Howard Day, and Osborne Anderson, who was the sole Black survivor in a

October of that year, Mary Ann Shadd, who at the time was the editor of the Provincial Freeman, had requested funds to defray the expense of the trial of John Brown. And my husband and I were listed, 1858, as members of that 14-person vigilance committee. There is no doubt or question about that, or my role as an abolitionist. 1901, when I...

narrated my autobiography to Sam Davis. I shared these words with him. But before I pass away, I wish to clear the identity of the party who furnished John Brown with most of his money to start the fight at Harper's Ferry and who signed the letter found on him when he was arrested. Some say I made that up. The note, the letter found on John Brown stated as follows.

The axe is laid at the root of the tree. When the first blow is struck, there will be more money and health. The newspaper stated that the letter was found and signed UEP. I was happy that they could not decipher my writing and that they were looking for the wrong name and person. And I left and went to New York as fast as I could. I suppose not being educated.

Formerly had helped me after all. But one of the things that I asked was that when I laid my head to rest, that on my gravestone, I wanted it to be written. She was a friend of John Brown. Now, that didn't happen initially. It took until 1965 for that inscription to finally be added to my gravesite.

Adesoji Iginla (32:20.892)
Many others have written about me like Lerone Bennett, who I'm sure some of your listeners have heard of, great historian. And he says that in terms of my involvement in the raid, and I quote, there is no documentary evidence to support her story. But she maintained with all her might until her dying day that it was true. Who plans such a raid?

and leaves a trail of evidence. Would that not be like signing your own death warrant in the event that things don't work out?

Please use your common sense as you read through the various interpretations of my life. But there are yet others like Delilah L. Beasley, a historian of black Californians, who in her 1916 study, after interviewing many black people in San Francisco, said William Stevens of Oakland, while employed on Crocker's private railroad car, said that

He met a man whose father, a Canadian labor commissioner and abolitionist, had seen pleasant, referring to me, give a large sum of money to John Brown. My grave today is in Napa, California. 1895, San Francisco examiner said of me, no more independent woman ever wore shoe leather. Not only was I active in the abolition movement,

When I returned to San Francisco after my foray in work in Canada, trying to free my people in the South, I returned to my entrepreneurship and I also was very active in helping to fund various institutions for black people in and around San Francisco. Churches, schools, newspapers.

Adesoji Iginla (34:26.134)
You know, black people today seem to have forgotten that we didn't just wait around for white people to tell us our stories. We actually had thriving black and we funded it ourselves. Upon my return, I concentrated my efforts on fighting segregation in education and public transportation and fighting for the right to vote.

This too is well documented. I challenged institutions. This is very easy to prove, even though some of my earlier work isn't as easy to prove. And there are many cases that I was involved in, either in funding them directly or in being the plaintiff in those cases. I supported key institutions like the Pacific Appeal, which was a black newspaper.

who on July 25th, 1863, and again in 1870, praised me as an ever earnest lady and a Christian for organizing a local benefit and celebration. I fought for our rights in the courts, and the courts in the cases that I fought brought me a lot of notoriety. Even though at the time I was already known as a very wealthy woman, even nationally, because the Black

Press in Cleveland had earlier reported about my immense successes, financial successes in San Francisco. But you have to understand that any time that a black person is succeeding, a negro as we were called then, that certainly brings a lot of scrutiny from white people who would prefer that you not know your place.

Yes. So there was a case that I filed against the Omnibus Railroad Corporation. I did withdraw it after the company promised to carry black passengers. And then there is Pleasant v North Beach and Mission Railroad Company. I won at trial and the jury awarded me $500 in punitive damages. Of course, the California Supreme Court could not let that be. And on an appeal, they later reduced the damages.

Adesoji Iginla (36:51.606)
This litigation helped to end segregation on San Francisco streetcars. And this is regularly cited as an early California civil rights landmark. Now you have to understand that up until the 20th century, the latter part of the 20th century, women weren't really, wasn't an easy task.

for them to get loans, for them to own property in their names. So you can imagine me doing this way back in the 1800s. And I found it necessary to, at a point, bring on white partners and to invest through white partners because it allowed me to invest and move in ways that I couldn't as a black woman.

Some say that I had earlier passed for a white woman and that it wasn't until the eight sixties that the U.S. census I identified as a black woman and that in that census I also identified that I was worth over $30,000. Of course I was worth more than that, but at least that's what was reported in the U.S. census. My second husband died. There are some who claim

that I met my second husband who was definitely a black man. My first husband, people wondered, was he white? Was he mixed race? There were all kinds of stories. Some claim that my first husband owned a ranch and that my second husband worked on that ranch and that we met. And then I, using my voodoo skills, killed my first husband and ran away with his wealth, which he had left me.

with my second husband. Again, consider the sources. Eventually, I did. My second husband made his transition. My daughter Lizzie did come to San Francisco to live with me, and I arranged a marriage for her with a rather wealthy Mr. Barry. And yes, it is true that he was considerably older than she was, but it was a good match, befitting a daughter of a woman of my stature.

Adesoji Iginla (39:14.656)
Some say my daughter was vexed and as a result that marriage did not last long and she went on to remarry. But that my daughter and I were at loggerheads. It was important to sections of the community, the white community in particular, to paint me as a bad mother, one who had abandoned her child to seek fortune, one who was a madam.

One who manipulated young women and men and blackmailed people because I had their secrets and that's how I made my fortune. And that I forced my daughter into an unsavory marriage. And that ultimately my daughter rebelled against me and became a drunkard. I will say that my daughter died rather young, 31 to be exact. But I will also say this to any of you.

who have had parents who have ever not seen eye to eye with your parents, or any woman who have had a spat with their mother. How easy is it to exploit any disagreement between a mother and daughter and blow it up into a narrative to suit your nefarious goals, which is ultimately to discredit me. They just threw everything they could at me until they could find something that would stick.

Because who supports a woman who is a bad mother? And of course, at that time, there was this notion that black women could only care for white children, but cared nothing for their own. Who benefits from such a narrative? There's still so much to say, and yet I know that your listeners have other things that they must do with their time. So.

I will end with just a few more stories. After I built my mansion, Thomas Bell, who was my protege and my business partner, lived in that mansion with me and all those who helped to serve and run the mansion. It immediately was labeled the House of Mystery because what could I possibly have to do with this young girl?

Adesoji Iginla (41:37.824)
white man who they considered of great means even though it was my intellect and my resources that helped him to acquire what they thought was all his. Although much of it was also mine. Later on, Thomas married Teresa Bell, whom they say I introduced him to, and they had children and I lived in my home.

my mansion and so did the Bells. And yes, I did present myself as the mammy because that was again something more palatable to the white community who were very curious again as to what was going on. Mr. Bell came to an untimely death. As the story is told, I was accused of being a black leech who had fastened herself.

on bell money sack until it was dry as a sucked orange. This was from the San Francisco call in 1899. Wow. There had been a case before that that involved a Senator, Senator Sharon and a divorce. And again, it was, I featured prominently in this case and in the testimony of young Mrs. Sharon, was

clear that I was a confidant of hers and the story sold to the press was that I had used my power over the young Mrs. Sharon to get her to entice the senator who was already married and with my voodoo skills got him to marry her. And so when he now attempted to leave her and she sued that I was the mastermind behind it all.

Sarah had portrayed Sharon, the senator, as an adulterer, unable to control his sexual impulses, and had presented herself as a scorned wife. My power in how I was portrayed was that my wealth, my secrets, and the comfort white America invested in the role of the mammy that I

Adesoji Iginla (44:05.088)
had served to orchestrate things behind the scenes. When Sarah on the stand testified that Pleasant, meaning me, had guided her through difficulties, but only as a great and true friend, you understand. Mammy expected nothing in return, absolutely nothing. Of course, they chose not to believe that. I must have manipulated this young lady into

his graces so as to extract money from him. The public scrutiny of the 1880s when this case took place, the racialized and scandalous cartoons and the headlines definitely helped to begin to away at my finances and my businesses and contributed to my financial decline. And so by the time I had to

fight for my assets in the 1890s before the very same set of judges. You can imagine that I did not have much of a chance at all. In my days, I experienced long periods of illness as evidenced by my frequent visits to Dr. Kearney, whom I paid for my services. I had a ranch as well as my mansion and friends would come and visit.

After nearly two decades of living in my mansard-roofed mansion on Octavius Street, I was kicked out of my own home. I spent the latter part, the better part of the 1890s, in litigation over the Bell estate and my own estate. These dramatic series of events started in October of 1892, October 15th to be exact.

It's 1661 Octavia Street where my mansion used to be. Today there are two eucalyptus trees that I planted still standing. There is a bronze marker and they say it is the smallest park in San Francisco. And it is a park they claim I hunt. Yes, now as a ghost I haunt that park.

Adesoji Iginla (46:22.636)
It is said that on this date, October 15, 1892, Bell had retired to his bedroom at about 8.30 PM and that I was also in the house. Of course, it's my house. Teresa, his wife, was at my ranch in Sonoma County and the three youngest children were in bed. According to the police report, I stated that at about 10.30 PM, I heard Bell's voice then the fall.

and the servant screams. Thomas Bell had fallen 20 feet to the basement floor where one of the servants had discovered him lying unconscious. The doctors were called immediately and concurred that Bell had had a concussion, but he never regained consciousness and was pronounced dead at 1.30 p.m. on October 16th, 1892. He was 72 years old when he died.

The newspapers reported the death as an accident and a coroner's jury confirmed that. However, there was an informal inquest held at the Bell and Pleasant households. Theresa Bell, his wife was there, but she remained silent. The coroners concluded that Bell's death was caused by falling over the balustrade of his residence and his death was entirely accidental. Pleasant.

They say me made it clear to the reporters that no one would ever know what really happened that night. Now, why would I say something like that? When I already know that I had been previously accused of murdering my husband, of being a voodoo priestess, they say that I said, of course, we don't know just how the accident happened. Nobody knows that. But we think Mr. Bell must have been dazed when he started down to the kitchen.

I think he got to the bottom of the upper flight and then fell over the railing from the first step. There the railing is low and it would be an ease and it would be easy to fall from the stairs. The examination of Bell's death provided the curious with another opportunity to question my relationship with him. And because Thomas Bell had been a leading figure in one of the West's largest institutions,

Adesoji Iginla (48:43.776)
the San Francisco's Bank of California, and partly because of my reputation now from the Sharon trials, the accident received a lot more attention. Did I tell you that I predicted Mr. Sharon's death and he did indeed die? At any rate, the years after Bell's death, his wife and I were accused of mismanaging

the Bell estate. The estate was vast. In addition to real estate, there were millions of dollars worth of stocks, mining claims, and cash. The Chronicle claimed that the Bell estate yielded $40,000 a year at the time of Thomas Bell's death. Now, what happens when there are great sums of money at stake?

Greed. Greed. Yeah, greed sets in. Theresa Bell was mentioned in the will of Thomas Bell as well as Bell children. But Thomas Bell left me out of his will. And I told a reporter that I held the deed for one of the San Francisco lots and that I definitely had proof that I commissioned the construction of the mansion

and it did belong to me. So intricately, where my, was my wealth intertwined with Thomas Bell's wealth, that though we were in court for years, it was virtually impossible for me to prove what parts of that wealth actually belonged to me. And of course, who would listen to a mere mammy of voodoo?

In the end, of Bell's sons, Thomas Bell's sons, in a guardianship suit was able to wrest most of my assets from me. He chose not to have any issue with the Bell children, but instead to call out the greedy attorneys. And on November 9th, 1899, the San Francisco Call reprinted experts and excerpts of my letter.

Adesoji Iginla (51:09.674)
to Judge Cuffee, who was in charge of Fred Bell's guardianship case. The article was titled, Mammy writes and grills the bench and bar, Voices her opinion of executors. And here is an excerpt. Mr. Bell would have soon silenced those who said I had too much influence. I have a good deal to say about the executors and lawyer for the Bell estate, selling their assets to pay their own debts.

I told it to the lawyers and now I have told it to you. These are the kind of things I have been saying that makes me such a bad woman and the estimation of people that are not straight themselves. I have said to them, to the principals themselves, of the two I would rather be a corpse than a coward. Now this woman who has respect for the right and the truth would like to have you use your influence.

Now what judge wants to take a public spanking from a mere mammy? Over the years, I have been featured in all kinds of plays and cartoons and novels and people mischaracterizing who I am. But I am here this evening to say to you, that I was an uncommon woman. I am an uncommon woman, but I did things that were not common.

for that age or even today, that I used my considerable talents for the good of my people. And although I die relatively poor, I was never a coward. And that my legacy, however shrouded in mystery it might still be, should be one that causes others to rise up and use whatever power and influence they have for the liberation of their people. Thank you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. But one final question before you go. You describe yourself as a capitalist by profession and that your wealth was meant for survival and empowerment. Could you just, I mean, you sort of told us earlier, but could you just expand on that a bit? I believe that wherever we find ourselves, we fight with every tool at our arsenal. Our fight from

Adesoji Iginla (53:32.23)
slavery till now has always required resources. We can get only so far depending on the benevolence of others. And so yes, as a capitalist, my goal was to look for the means, and I would say means that are not harmful to my people, to make the money that would allow me to do the work that was required for our liberation.

of what use would it have been for me to have had the knowledge to acquire great wealth and to choose to live in poverty and not be able to assist. In fact, if you go through the annals, you are going to read about specific individuals Archie comes to mind, Archie Lee, who had a quote unquote master

who was trying to force him back under the Fugitive Slave Act was trying to force him back to the South. And I was able to help fund his legal defense as well as hide him. And he wasn't the first and he wasn't the last. You need resources to do some of this work. Today, and wherever you are living as a person who we now call ourselves as we actually did back then, Africans,

We had the African Methodist Episcopalian Church. We knew we were of African descent. Wherever you may be as African around the world, do we not need our own resources so that we stop begging people who have only ill wishes towards us? Yes. So I was a capitalist, but never to harm my people, always in service of my people.

Can the two be done? I know is the follow-up question. That is one that we must grapple with and how it's done. But we do know that we have resources that are a form of capital, owns it and to what use it's put to, I think is what's important. True, true, true. I mean, my follow-up question would have been, is there such a thing as a compassionate capitalist?

Adesoji Iginla (55:55.358)
You sort of answered. With all of the words, it would be important to find out how indeed people are defining the words, because what I may consider a capitalist might be different from what other people consider that a capitalist. By all accounts, from black members of the San Francisco community, they will tell you that I...

put my money in service of my people. It was not just about living ostentatiously, of course, even back then you really did not want to do that anyway. But what I never did was abdicate my responsibility to my people, which is something that I would say quite a few modern day black or African capitalists do. They are more interested in their

personal comforts than being of service to their people. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And before we leave as is customary here next week, we are going to be revisiting the last 12 that we've looked at and including Miss Pleasant. So that will be Miss Pleasant, Shirley Chisholm, Nehanda, BD Mason, Abby Lincoln, Julia de Borges, Mr. Mugo, Asata Shokur,

Ellen Johnson Seleff, and we're sort of going to be looking at them through the lens of today, how they would have reacted to certain things that we're experiencing in our present day. And so next week, it will be a revisit of the previous 12 that we've looked at. And I think it would be interesting maybe next week as you're all of your guests are in conversation with each other.

To look at what our relationship is and ideology is around money and this idea of capitalism certainly would not be so... I would not be so naive as to say that it is not... That the greed of human beings is not the root of most, if not all of the misery that people face across the world. But I would also say...

Adesoji Iginla (58:20.937)
that as we try to, as I tried, let me speak for my time, as I tried to re-imagine a free society for my people, I could come up with no cogent argument that me being mired in poverty was going to assist us in our quest for liberation. As they will say, there is no free lunch. Again,

Thank you very much for coming through and for our audience. Thank you as always for supporting this podcast and I'll have you know your downloads does help with regards to Apple recognizing the fact that it's pushed to other people and yeah. So continue to do the work and thank you for coming through again until next week. It's pleasant. this. Thank you for listening. Be careful.

how you judge people and times, even as you evaluate your choices in the present times. Whatever else you say about me, I should be celebrated. And the reason that I am not as well known as many of the other abolitionists has everything to do with what you all will now term respectability politics.

That's another rabbit hole. My flaws were a little too pronounced to fit into the nice neat boxes. Rosa Parks versus Claudette Colvin. And I would leave it at that. And thank you for your time. No, thank you. And yes, for me until next week, it's a good night and God bless. Yeah.