Episode 19 - with Hannah Rumsey // on the loss of a beloved friend

grief, loss, friend loss, writing, creativity, friendship, support, mental health, storytelling, healing, community

In this episode, Hannah Rumsey shares her journey of grief following the sudden loss of her friend Lauren. Through storytelling, writing, and humor, she explores the complexities of navigating grief, the importance of witnessing pain, and the healing power of creativity. The conversation delves into the societal challenges surrounding grief, the need for support, and the significance of keeping memories alive through shared stories.

takeaways

Grief is a complex and ongoing process that doesn't have a timeline.

• Witnessing each other's pain is crucial for healing.
• Humor can be a powerful tool in coping with loss.
• Creating art can serve as a container for grief.
• Friend loss is often overlooked and needs more recognition.
• It's important to talk about grief openly and without stigma.
• Grief can coexist with joy and happiness.
• The details of a loved one's death can haunt those left behind.
• Support groups can provide essential peer support for grieving individuals.
• Living fully means embracing both grief and joy.

You can find Hannah on IG as @friendsmissing friends

or by going to friendsmissingfriends.com

and check out the grief groups available here: friendsmissingfriends.com/griefgroup

You can find me online at www.dearpsychopomp.com

or contact@dearpsychopomp.com

I hope your weekend is gentle and full of opportunities ♡

Transcript

Dear Psychopomp (00:01.428)
Joining us today is Hannah Rumsey. Hannah is a writer, a performer, and a podcaster. And since the death of her beloved friend Lauren in 2015, she hasn't been able to stop writing about it. Starting with her one-woman show, 42 Days of Summer, to her memoir in progress, Alice for Lauren. She's also the founder and director of Friends Missing Friends.

which is podcast and a beautiful community that offers peer support, friend loss, grief groups. Hannah, thank you for being here today. It's wonderful having you.

Hannah (00:38.559)
Thank you so much for having me.

Dear Psychopomp (00:41.122)
Yeah, I was just listening to your episode. I forget which number it was. You're at 77 now, congratulations. That's awesome. It was the grief notes.

Hannah (00:49.471)
Thank you.

Hannah (00:55.313)
Mmm, yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (00:57.324)
Yeah, so can you tell us a little bit about like the premise of the grief notes?

Hannah (01:03.805)
Yeah, it's something I've just started. So yeah, so far there's only one. So I actually was inspired by Amber Jeffries' podcast, The Grief Gang. She's awesome. And she was taking a walk and I was very breathless when I was walking. She managed to make it seamless. I don't know how she did it. But she was just on a walk and on the notes app of her phone, she just like...

was sharing her thoughts and it felt very conversational. She was saying how it's kind of like, imagine this like is a text note from a friend. I was like, I love that. So I wanted to try it. And yeah, that episode was, I actually was walking in a graveyard because it was also, it was...

a little on the nose as far as where to be. But also it was nice and quiet. yeah, I just shared my thoughts and I want to keep that going. Not every episode, but yeah, just kind of have those kind of off the cuff thoughts as I'm walking or like outside somewhere.

Dear Psychopomp (02:00.758)
Apropos.

Dear Psychopomp (02:16.546)
Yeah, it was really lovely to listen to. You were just so raw and vulnerable and real. And I think that's what really makes your listeners connect with you. Because, I mean, I'm hooked. It's just, it's beautiful. I was going through, I haven't listened to every single one of your episodes yet. You're just like pumping them out.

Hannah (02:31.231)
Thank you.

Dear Psychopomp (02:46.446)
But I was noticing even just with the titles, the episodes that you create with other people telling their stories are legacies in themselves and that it's such an amazing gift that you give because people are telling their stories and keeping their friends' memories alive and it's out there in the universe and

Hannah (02:46.963)
You

Dear Psychopomp (03:13.58)
and the internet and it's gonna live there forever and that's just beautiful. And of course, if it's okay with you, I wanna hear your story with Lauren. Tell me all about her.

Hannah (03:20.863)
Thank you.

Hannah (03:32.241)
Yeah. Yeah, so this month is extra emotional because July 19th was the day of her death and her birthday. So every July I'm like, you know, it's just, it's more intense. And she would be...

Dear Psychopomp (03:56.59)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (04:01.983)
turning 30, I believe, which is, oh my gosh, or 31. I'll do the math later. And that just is so wild to me. that's one of the many continuous secondary losses is every year, it's like, she'd be 28, she'd be 29, she'd be 30, she'd be 31.

Hannah (04:31.231)
But yeah, I got to tell you about her so that you know who I'm talking about. This is what has been top of mind for me. our friendship started in 2009. We were teenagers. She was actually about two, three years younger than me. But she was 14 when I first met her I was 17. And then she turned 15 shortly after.

Dear Psychopomp (04:33.038)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (05:00.249)
We felt like the same age, like we just clicked so incredibly well. And I, the way I like to explain it is that like all of my peers in school were trying to grow up. We're trying to be adults. And I wasn't ready to let go of childhood yet. And she was probably the first, she was probably the last summer of my childhood.

that summer that we spent together. Because we met at the Interlochen Summer Arts Camp and we spent six jam-packed weeks together. And it was absolutely... I would say I could put a stake in the ground and be like, this is the last summer of my childhood. And I think because she was a couple of years younger, she brought... It was also just her personality though, but she brought so much childlike energy and...

Like she would, like I say this all the time, but like she would just gallop like a horse because she felt like it, which is what like a five year old would do. Right. But it's just like, I just remember it blew my mind because it was so just untethered to worrying about what people think. Just like, freaking feel like doing this. I'm going to do it. Like, who cares? You know? So we were galloping like horses and like dancing and singing like.

And yeah for those six weeks I feel like more words and laughter and tears poured out of my body than they normally do in a year because she just like was so expressive and So that was that our friendship that's where we met at camp and then the next six six years we

Dear Psychopomp (06:39.694)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (06:56.233)
kept in touch and had a long distance friendship. We kept, you know, trying to get around to visiting each other, but we were in high school and like there was always exams. There was always something, right? That like kept it from happening. And then in 2015, it was on her birthday. She was studying abroad in Spain and I found out on her Facebook page.

that she had died while in Spain. Yeah, and it was obviously just completely unexpected. We had just messaged each other saying how we'll talk as soon as she gets back to the States. And it's like, there's no good way to find out, but reading a really impartial news article is not a good way to find out.

Dear Psychopomp (07:51.509)
No.

Hannah (07:54.663)
Yeah, so it

Dear Psychopomp (07:55.446)
No, it's grieving digitally is,

It's a monster. I'm so sorry you found out that way.

Hannah (08:06.847)
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, again, like, it's, there's no...

Dear Psychopomp (08:08.29)
Ugh.

Hannah (08:22.079)
It's like I don't want to compare sudden death to long death. They're both terrible in their own ways. But sudden death, because that's what I have experience in, it shakes your nervous system because you didn't have time to prepare for it. You weren't expecting it. And you remain, or I can't speak for everyone, but I remained in shock for months.

in maybe years.

Hannah (08:57.853)
I mean, it's just, because you're just like, but it doesn't make sense. Like I just talked to her. you know, it's just like, your brain doesn't want it to be true. And so it's just like, I felt like I was told that she was dead, but I wasn't given the evidence. And I remember hearing that like having the evidence really helps your brain to kind of like, come to terms with it. I don't know if you've heard that, like they did a study on like,

Dear Psychopomp (09:16.236)
Yes.

Dear Psychopomp (09:23.374)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (09:27.999)
people who were there with their pet as their pet passed on had less false cues where they thought they heard the dog barking or walking down the hallway. While those who weren't there for whatever reason had a lot more false cues. It's like their brain couldn't process that they were gone.

Dear Psychopomp (09:36.302)
Mm.

Dear Psychopomp (09:49.656)
Mm.

Yeah, it's amazing the things that the brain does. And when you go through that...

that shock and that denial, you're like, I don't accept this reality. And it just pulls the floor from your feet.

Hannah (10:08.329)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (10:13.204)
and you're trying to stand and it's not working.

Hannah (10:18.58)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (10:19.726)
Yeah.

So, so what was her... what else was she like?

Hannah (10:26.815)
Yeah, so she was so funny. it's it's always really bizarre to hear about someone you know and love after they've passed from other people who you haven't known yet. But I would hear from other people over and over, like, she's the funniest person I've ever known. She's the funniest person I've ever known. So she was just, and like, an example is like,

I would ask her to tell me the same story, kind of like a kid asking their parent, can you tell me the story of Cinderella? Even though you know the story by heart. Whenever we would Skype and be like, can you tell me that story again? Even though I'd heard it 10 times and one story in particular that I remember that she told and she was always so happy to tell it. She'd be like, yeah, of course. And then she'd launch into it.

Dear Psychopomp (11:04.425)
Yeah.

Hannah (11:22.047)
One story was that when she was in college, she went to a, I guess a farmer fraternity party and she dressed up as a farmer. She had overalls and straw hat, then she showed up and no one else was dressed up. And she was just really embarrassed. And it's a simple story, but she managed to embellish it and make it so funny. And I would be like, tell me the farmer fraternity story again.

Dear Psychopomp (11:50.414)
I love that dedication to the theme though.

Hannah (11:57.119)
Yeah, and that's her in a nutshell. She'd be like, all right, we're going to this. I'm going to freaking be dressed up for it. She would do everything 10 out of 10. She would commit. She would commit fully. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (12:06.435)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, make it an event. I love that.

I have a friend that I lost and I was thinking about it before we started recording. I was like...

If my buddy was there with Lauren, because he appreciated a good joke, he had the worst taste in humor. He would tell the jokes that you feel guilty about and wish that you were baptized before you laugh at it.

Hannah (12:41.137)
Hannah (12:58.089)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (12:59.906)
But the delivery was just smooth. You'd just slip it in there. It was nothing. And I was thinking about that grief note episode that you did about continuing the friendship after death. so I've been writing him burn letters. Just kind of updating him and this is what's going on.

Hannah (13:06.594)
Aww.

Hannah (13:17.182)
Yeah.

Hannah (13:24.895)
Mmm.

Dear Psychopomp (13:28.962)
wish you were here and sometimes I'll write, like I journal a lot and I'll write a letter to myself from him.

Hannah (13:39.633)
wow.

Dear Psychopomp (13:40.92)
to try and like, because I know he was just, he was compassionate, but he was no bullshit, like he wouldn't sugarcoat anything. And the way the way he, you know, dulled his edges was he would put a joke in there afterwards.

Hannah (13:57.759)
Dear Psychopomp (13:58.476)
That's he would soften things.

Hannah (14:00.701)
Yeah

Dear Psychopomp (14:03.778)
you know, I'll say like, what would he say to comfort me about this or...

you know, it'll just come to my head like, man, that's totally high five worthy and I'll just, you know, air high five. And I have this little, I guess it's kind of like an altar by the front door. And I have a little sign there. So it's like, light one up for your homies. And it has a bunch of little candles around. And so, you know, whenever I'm...

Hannah (14:18.296)
yeah...

Dear Psychopomp (14:38.68)
thinking about it or I walk by it I'll light a candle for him and you know talk to the candle or you know I have a new office plant that I named after him so I just talked to him every day and like hey buddy you thirsty?

Hannah (14:55.048)
that's so beautiful.

Dear Psychopomp (14:56.862)
and just, you know, even if all you're having is a glass of water or something, just like, cheers. But I find that the writing and the talking and, you know, there's people who had never met him, who were my friends that know about him, and they would even like...

Hannah (15:09.907)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (15:19.271)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (15:24.02)
ask me to talk about them.

Hannah (15:27.998)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (15:30.15)
and they were fine with me bringing it up incessantly in conversations like, he would have loved this. it's, I think that's how we keep it going. It's just telling the stories and showing the pictures and like, he would have loved this.

Hannah (15:35.219)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (15:41.011)
Yeah.

Hannah (15:52.041)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (15:53.227)
And then.

Dear Psychopomp (15:57.814)
and then you can finish your book and put it in the universe and it's not letting go, it's setting free.

Dear Psychopomp (16:10.35)
I understand in my own way. I'm writing a book about my friend.

Hannah (16:10.686)
Yeah.

Hannah (16:20.732)
wow.

Dear Psychopomp (16:21.926)
And I've gotten, I've gathered up all the emails. Like we never met face to face. I don't know what he looked like. He knew what I looked like because I sent him my website for my death thula business. So he knew what I looked like, but I didn't know what he looked like. And I just sent him that. like, hey, cause he was reaching out for help online. And I was like, hey, I'm.

Hannah (16:28.978)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (16:51.586)
brand new Death Dula, but how can I be of service? And man, I had no idea what that kid would give me. my gosh. And it's, I've gathered up the emails and stuff like that, but it's, as soon as I actually sit down to start writing it, it's like, no, if I write it down, that means it's real.

Hannah (16:59.432)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (17:02.947)
Hannah (17:17.471)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (17:19.746)
And even as a death doula, you'd think that I would have really good coping skills. And I do in moments. But then you forget and you have to remind yourself and it's, you know, I haven't even written about his death in my journal, I don't think, and that was back in December.

Hannah (17:31.775)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (17:46.284)
So I'm like, it's just, I know it's real.

Hannah (17:46.377)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (17:52.718)
But once it's in writing and it's documented, it makes it a different kind of reel.

Hannah (18:01.855)
Totally.

Dear Psychopomp (18:03.48)
You know? Yeah, but I think,

Dear Psychopomp (18:11.98)
I mean, he taught me just to go for it. Just live loudly and love loudly. And, you know, like the world is truly a lesser place with him gone. And it's like...

Hannah (18:18.397)
Hannah (18:28.521)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (18:36.97)
He's still teaching me things?

Dear Psychopomp (18:42.734)
Like I was taking my life for granted. Again. Still. And I was thinking about it the other day, like what an injustice.

Dear Psychopomp (18:59.627)
It was.

And I'm here taking my life for granted.

and suddenly he was my muse?

Dear Psychopomp (19:13.774)
So have this like, my little friend on my shoulder being like, yo, like, go do the thing. Go take up your space. And that's actually before he died, he called me his dear psychopomp.

Hannah (19:19.434)
haha

Yeah.

Hannah (19:29.215)
Dear Psychopomp (19:29.63)
And so this is my way of keeping his memory alive.

Hannah (19:35.455)
Wow, what a beautiful way to honor him. my gosh. And I hadn't previously known what that word meant for some reason, but I looked it up and I was just like, what a beautiful word. And so like, yeah, just the fact that like, cause I heard on your previous episode that you had a dear friend who called you that. And I looked it up and I was like, my gosh.

Dear Psychopomp (19:52.334)
Right?

Hannah (20:04.371)
Like is it, how would you describe it? I know what the internet said, but.

Dear Psychopomp (20:11.572)
well, the way it was described to me is a living guide for living souls to depart. So there's kind of, like it's not to be mixed up with a grim reaper who kind of takes you the rest of the way, which, I mean, I think the grim reaper has a pretty like...

Hannah (20:25.321)
Yeah.

Hannah (20:36.297)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (20:42.7)
Ref go, because he's just there making sure you're not alone.

Hannah (20:46.557)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (20:47.726)
He's good company, you know. He does, he does. And he's just trying to make sure the transition's smooth, that's fine. And just the way my friend described it as a guide for living souls, oh.

Hannah (20:49.823)
He gets a bad rap.

Hannah (21:00.051)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (21:12.351)
So beautiful.

Dear Psychopomp (21:15.016)
I started crying, obviously.

Hannah (21:18.111)
Okay.

Dear Psychopomp (21:22.51)
Part of me was just so honored and humbled and whoa. And part of me, my ego was like, I finally have a nickname.

Dear Psychopomp (21:40.558)
Because you can't give yourself a nickname. You have to earn it.

Hannah (21:40.671)
It's a great nickname.

Aww, yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (21:46.636)
I like, yes, I have a nickname.

Hannah (21:50.473)
So would you talk to him on the phone? that how you, or how would you communicate?

Dear Psychopomp (21:55.32)
Yeah, we did. We started with emails. I actually met him on Reddit.

Hannah (21:59.942)
wow.

Dear Psychopomp (22:01.37)
And he was stage four and he must have been having a really hard day to post what he did on Reddit. And I was like, the way he wrote...

Dear Psychopomp (22:16.394)
spoke to me. was, I don't know, it made me like, I'm gonna randomly message this internet stranger and I was like, hey, I can help you with resources.

Hannah (22:17.769)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (22:30.943)
Hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (22:32.831)
And then he just opened up. so I was, at first I was happy to be able to practice my, my dooling. And then he started asking about me. He wanted to know about me and then we're sharing stories and now we're friends. And he sucks at battleship by the way. I will never let him get away with that because he was awful at it.

Hannah (22:46.194)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (22:56.325)
Hahaha

Hannah (23:00.506)
Ha ha.

Dear Psychopomp (23:02.008)
but he always wanted to play. And we talk mostly on Google Meet.

Hannah (23:04.223)
aww

Dear Psychopomp (23:11.246)
Just no cameras or eventually we went to WhatsApp, but again, you know, no video, just voice. And he was actually over in India. So there was that crazy time gap. And he would actually wake up at one o'clock in the morning and give me a call, because he knew I'd be up. And it was just the...

Hannah (23:12.799)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (23:30.655)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (23:37.567)
My car.

Dear Psychopomp (23:42.552)
Like it was humbling again, like the efforts that this almost complete stranger is putting into caring about me had me in awe.

Hannah (23:56.285)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (23:57.335)
And I just.

I think my main thing right now is the injustice of it. I only knew him for a few months. I wasn't done yet. We weren't done yet.

But he was. Like he was ready, he accepted it. That was one thing that we worked on. And by the end of it, he was like, you know, I accept it and I'm okay with it and I'm ready. And to be able to give someone that is just like...

Dear Psychopomp (24:33.591)
No.

No words, no ego, human beings, just it was intense. Yeah.

Hannah (24:37.705)
That's a huge gift, yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (24:48.877)
Yeah.

Hannah (24:49.631)
So beautiful.

Dear Psychopomp (24:54.178)
Yeah, unfortunately his story ended on a very tragic note. And I won't go into detail about because that would get political.

Hannah (25:07.051)
I hate it when death and grief become political, you know, and then, yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (25:08.035)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (25:13.088)
I know. Well, because he wanted medical assistance. it's, you know, he couldn't get it here, and he couldn't get it here, and he couldn't get it here, and it's illegal here. And it's just...

Hannah (25:19.529)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (25:34.594)
It was hard, but he'd call and you could hear the pain in his voice.

when he was talking and he would still be laughing and cracking really bad jokes.

Hannah (25:45.599)
my gosh.

Dear Psychopomp (25:50.614)
And then I'll be having a bad day just because of whatever is the worst part of my day. And I'll think of a crappy joke and remember that if he can still find laughter through all that, then so can I.

Hannah (26:12.404)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (26:16.364)
you know, not to compare his...

stage four cancer with my like coffee maker not working. But to be like

I can do difficult things.

Hannah (26:32.159)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (26:33.166)
He taught me that I can do difficult things. People can be happy and sad at the same time, and that's okay.

you can be sick and happy at the same time, which I find a lot of people struggle with. Like I'm chronically sick. I have Crohn's disease and I've lost how many friends because of it. You find out who your real people are. And I was having a discussion with one of my friends before.

Hannah (27:05.256)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (27:12.01)
And like I'll get random shooting pain. It comes for half a second. I'm doubled over and then I'm like, okay, I'm good. Like, and I'm back. And I'll be back to talking and laughing or whatever. And she was like, how can you do that?

Hannah (27:22.579)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (27:32.632)
Like if I had crowns I'd just be miserable all the time.

And it's like.

Well, that sounds like a waste of time, first of all. Time is precious. But also, like I was diagnosed in 2009.

Hannah (27:42.814)
Ha ha ha!

Hannah (27:47.005)
It is.

Dear Psychopomp (27:53.358)
So it's been, you know, a couple years and for the first, I want to say three or four years, it was grief. I was grieving.

I couldn't pursue the career I wanted. I couldn't eat whatever I wanted anymore. My life was upside down. I was on 44 pills a day. And so I was miserable for years. I thought I was ruined for all relationships because who's going to love me?

and

then I kicked out of it.

Dear Psychopomp (28:41.506)
And then my dad died.

Hannah (28:43.964)
Dear Psychopomp (28:45.858)
Yeah. And we were estranged and he was an alcoholic and it was just...

And it's.

Obviously I would change some things, but...

Dear Psychopomp (29:01.26)
I wouldn't change.

I didn't leave anything left unsaid.

And I learned so much about myself because every time you go through a loss of any type, it rearranges your world. And you have a new reality that you have to now integrate. And people these days see grief as an emotion or an event that you just have to get through. And once you're on the other side of it, you won't be grieving anymore.

Hannah (29:37.159)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (29:42.382)
It's like, well, no. Yeah, ding. Yeah, done. And it's the thing I find, like the worst part about it is people trying to put a time limit on your grief because they're uncomfortable with you still grieving because they're comparing it to themselves and they're like, wow.

Hannah (29:42.688)
Mm-hmm. Like it's done now.

Hannah (30:07.081)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (30:11.212)
If Anne-Marie can't get over it in this amount of time, like, what am I gonna do? So she better get over it soon. It's like...

You don't get over it.

Hannah (30:22.953)
You don't. And then there's the whole diagnostic DSM-5 where, well, least David Kessler said this recently, where the diagnosis for prolonged grief is one year. And he was in a meeting when this was announced. I don't know the details, but someone was announcing it and he raised his hand. He was like,

So you're saying if a year passes after my son's death and I'm still really sad and I still think about him a lot and I'm still deeply grieving, then I have a diagnosed condition?" And they were like, yes. And he was like, okay. And yeah, just like...

Yeah, I mean, the whole time thing is even put on medical diagnoses. Like it's everywhere. It's the air we breathe. It's it's infuriating.

Dear Psychopomp (31:23.416)
Well, yes, it really is. And I think the people writing the DSM are scientists and doctors and everything like that who death is another Tuesday for them.

Hannah (31:43.455)
Right? That's true.

Dear Psychopomp (31:45.314)
you know, get me a panel of my peers from around this neighborhood and let's talk about grief and then we'll get a real timeline. Because of course, being a death through the eye compartmentalize death differently.

Hannah (31:53.233)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (31:58.696)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (32:08.664)
than someone who's never had a big loss before at all.

There's, you can't, there's too many factors, there's too many variables.

Hannah (32:19.347)
There are, yeah. And that's why David Kessler was saying, he thinks, unfortunately, diagnoses are important in order to get you care sometimes. And you need the diagnoses for your health insurance to kick in, or at least in the United States, you do. And he was saying, instead of being time-based, he thinks it should be activity-based.

Dear Psychopomp (32:34.519)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (32:48.615)
in which whatever the time is, if you can't get out of bed and you can't go to work, then you get like that medical help. Not that it's been a year and you're still sad. You know, it's just like, how is it affecting your activities? How is it affecting your ability to live? But it's a whole can of worms. This whole thing of like...

Dear Psychopomp (32:56.686)
Mmm.

Dear Psychopomp (33:03.639)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (33:12.458)
Yeah, right. I mean, it's hard because you go to a doctor these days and say like, this is affecting my quality of life, and they don't listen anymore. Because now everyone's saying it because that was the buzzword. And now it's like,

Hannah (33:22.441)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (33:31.766)
You know, my doctor is working on a diagnosis for me, potentially fibromyalgia. So I did what any person would do and I Googled it. Just to know, I want more information. I want to understand it better. I want to know what questions I should ask because you don't know what you don't know. And the next time I had an appointment about it,

Hannah (33:39.071)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (34:00.258)
I was like, yeah, I checked out on Google and he rolled his eyes.

Hannah (34:04.159)
else are we gonna freakin' do? Like-

Dear Psychopomp (34:05.922)
I'm just gonna sit here and have a panic attack for two weeks and... Like I wanna know!

Hannah (34:12.325)
Let me pull up my medical book. wait, I don't have one. I have Google. Don't freaking roll your eyes at me, mister. God, that's so annoying. What else are we going to do? That's how we find out information. Gosh.

Dear Psychopomp (34:19.234)
Right? Yes. Seriously.

Yeah, and I just, I seek to understand and I know that there's people who see the internet as fact, but that's a whole other discussion.

Hannah (34:39.263)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (34:42.444)
Yeah, the internet doesn't lie.

Dear Psychopomp (34:47.796)
It would never. So anyways.

Hannah (34:51.145)
Ha ha ha ha!

Dear Psychopomp (34:54.465)
Yeah.

Hannah (34:59.443)
May I ask your friends? I'm so sorry.

Dear Psychopomp (34:59.566)
So what do you, no go ahead.

Hannah (35:03.807)
I was gonna say, maybe it's private or personal, but I just wondered if you wanted to share your friend's first name.

Dear Psychopomp (35:11.502)
Mmm.

Hannah (35:17.182)
What?

Hannah (35:22.473)
Thank you for sharing him with me.

Dear Psychopomp (35:23.032)
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing Lauren with me. That's, she sounds awesome.

They're definitely up there having a wonderful discussion. Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah (35:36.127)
They're sharing jokes. Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (35:44.044)
What would you do?

Dear Psychopomp (35:49.868)
if you had like five minutes with her.

Hannah (35:57.129)
So hard.

Dear Psychopomp (35:57.378)
Like just a quick little tea party. You know?

She'll be all dressed up.

Hannah (36:06.611)
Hahaha

Well, you know, it's funny because the closest I came to having a conversation with her, I'll share this briefly, because it's the closest I've had to this whole, I had five minutes with her thing, which was several years ago, maybe just like a couple years after she died, and it was New Year's Eve, and I was on the train, and my phone started buzzing, like in this really weird pattern.

Dear Psychopomp (36:21.933)
Hmm.

Hannah (36:36.595)
like Morse code, like, you know, just like de de de de de de de like that kind of like rhythm. And was like, what the heck? And I had no notifications. I was so confused. And then I was just like, Lauren, like, is that you? And I just remember it was like, like, it just like went crazy after I said that. And then like, I would ask her a question. It would like be silent as I asked, and then it would respond with buzzes. We went like that back and forth for a while.

Dear Psychopomp (36:39.342)
Mm.

Dear Psychopomp (37:07.148)
No way.

Hannah (37:08.773)
Yeah, it was that frustrating, like, I don't know what she's saying in response, like she's speaking another language. And I remember being amazed at how I ran out of questions because really the main question I want to know is like, are you okay? Like, are you at peace? And it's like after that...

I was just stunned by like, oh my gosh, I don't know what else to ask. That's like, it was the heaviest question I was carrying. And then we were silent for a while and then it hadn't buzzed in a while and I panicked and I was like, Lauren, oh my God, oh my God, are you there? Don't leave. And it buzzed three times and I actually heard words in my head, I'm still here.

And yeah, that's like the closest I've had to like conversing with her since she's passed. So that's a long-winded way to answer your question, which is like, I would just...

hug her and ask like, you at peace? And like, then we just might sit in silence together. Like, because it's so hard to know what to say. It's like words aren't enough, you know.

Dear Psychopomp (38:26.702)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (38:34.254)
Well that's why hugs were invented, so that your hearts can talk to each other. Yeah. What is it like?

Hannah (38:37.253)
Yes. Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (38:44.846)
Hugs have to be 20 seconds long to get the nice brain chemically stuff. Yeah.

Hannah (38:51.667)
Really? Wow, 20 seconds is pretty long. Like most people don't hug that long. Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (38:58.178)
I know, hey? I was like, I'm really connecting with my cat.

Hannah (39:02.396)
Hahaha

That's why we love our cats so much.

Dear Psychopomp (39:07.008)
Yeah. Right. Do you have cats?

Hannah (39:10.911)
no, but I want one. I love cats and dogs.

Dear Psychopomp (39:15.548)
Dear Psychopomp (39:18.988)
We have a couple.

Hannah (39:20.958)
Really?

Dear Psychopomp (39:21.868)
Yeah, you can have them. I'm just kidding. They're my babies. We have three cats and two dogs and two parrots and two lizards.

Hannah (39:33.439)
Dear Psychopomp (39:35.85)
I love animals. And my black cat, his name is Slevin, he's 19 years old this year.

Hannah (39:37.119)
It's amazing!

Dear Psychopomp (39:45.294)
And yeah, every morning the void demands the snuggles. And I have to hold him like a baby and I have one of those baby wraps so that I can hold him and still like get stuff done around the house because he's just, he's turned into a Velcro kitty in his old age. So I think it's because he knows like the crumbs will fall and then he'll get more treats.

Hannah (39:49.403)
Hahaha

Hannah (40:02.139)
my gosh.

Hannah (40:11.025)
my gosh, that's so sweet.

Dear Psychopomp (40:13.708)
And he's a little catnip fiend.

Dear Psychopomp (40:19.114)
We have to hide it in the fridge because he can open cupboards and drawers. Yeah, he's not quite street smart, but he's not quite book smart. Like he's...

Hannah (40:23.638)
my gosh. Wow.

Hannah (40:37.236)
Uh-huh. Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (40:40.142)
You know, he's read a couple books, but yeah, that's my boy.

Yeah, so can I ask you, what is 42 days of summer? What inspired that?

Hannah (40:59.613)
Yeah, so I took in 2020, like right at the beginning of the pandemic, I took a storytelling class. And it was at an acting studio in Chicago called Green Shirt Studio. And it was three levels that led up to writing a one person show. So like we started with five minutes stories and then we went to 20 minutes stories and then we shaped it into an hour long show. And

Like I basically put a flag on that time in the timeline of my life of like this is when the most healing happened in the shortest amount of time. Because like really like our stories, our pain needs to be witnessed. It has to be witnessed. And in modern day life, that doesn't really happen. You have to make it happen. Like you have to find ways to make it happen.

Dear Psychopomp (41:39.15)
Mmm.

Hannah (41:58.917)
And like therapy is great, of course, but like that on its own, I don't think it's enough as far as being witnessed.

Dear Psychopomp (41:58.926)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (42:06.638)
No, for an hour every week, every two weeks, once a month, that's... No.

Hannah (42:15.711)
Yeah, and it's also one person. You want to be witnessed by more than one person. would be nice. I was going to say a number and I'm like, I don't know, more than one. Yeah, so it's just like...

Dear Psychopomp (42:23.478)
Yes.

Dear Psychopomp (42:28.269)
Yeah.

Hannah (42:32.799)
I don't know, like being able to tell the truth of how I was doing and what was going on in an hour and have people listen and cry. Like I had so many friends, was shown over Zoom because of the pandemic. I had a lot of friends text me like I was like bawling, like just sobbing. And it's just like the fact that I was able to...

I don't know, like emotionally connect with people and also like be witnessed and be understood was like, it was like, I felt like a different person. I felt like a different person. It was like a weight, like it's cliche, but like it was like a weight was lifted from my shoulders. I felt lighter, physically lighter. And I called it 42 days of summer, cause we spent six weeks together at camp, which is 42 days.

Dear Psychopomp (43:13.954)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (43:31.758)
Hmm.

Hannah (43:34.137)
and the play was all about like kind of like the first few years of grief and like in the very beginning I I

get ready for a Halloween party and I dress up in joy from inside out. Which is like, one, is real. I did dress as joy like five Halloweens in a row because I'm lazy and I just reused the same costume. And two, like it's like it showed I had to put on the costume of joy every day because I was grieving. And I

Dear Psychopomp (44:07.704)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (44:21.223)
in the very beginning, like before I reveal like what happened or, you know, why I'm grieving, I'm like leaving work. And then I pick a random skyscraper and I count up nine floors. And I would do that obsessively because I heard she had fallen nine floors. She died falling off a balcony. And so it's like, shows that like the details of someone's death and someone's suffering like becomes this.

It haunts you. It haunts you. And especially in the beginning, like it was like, it was like a film just running in the back of my head constantly, just like that number, the number nine never left my head. And I'd be counting without even like realizing I was doing it. And so then for the rest of the piece, I...

Dear Psychopomp (44:52.046)
does, yeah.

Hannah (45:18.825)
kind of go back and forth between that present day scene of like going to the Halloween party wearing the Joy costume and then back to like memories of my time with her. yeah, anyway, so putting it together, putting it together in like an artistic way was also very helpful because it's like,

a container, it's a container for it. It's not the perfect container. It doesn't contain it all, but it contains a piece of it. And I feel like a container for our grief can look like a million different things.

because otherwise it's like a swirling hurricane, you know, in our body and soul. And it's like I was able to like kind of like trap a little bit of it. I don't know if that makes any sense, that metaphor.

Dear Psychopomp (46:15.864)
Yeah.

It does. It's a beautiful metaphor. You caught the wind.

Hannah (46:25.469)
Yeah, it's like catching the wind. because... And there's something very satisfying about that. Like if I ever freaking finish this book I'm writing, which I hope and pray I do one day finish it, it will be a huge relief too, because it'll be like this book is a container that is an expression of my grief and my love. It's not the ultimate expression. It doesn't say everything. It doesn't fully...

Dear Psychopomp (46:28.142)
Yeah.

Hannah (46:56.349)
honor her entire life because that's impossible to fully honor a human's life. But it's a piece of it and it's like I got that there and it exists in the world. So fingers crossed I can get there.

Dear Psychopomp (47:12.258)
You've got this. I believe in you.

Hannah (47:15.085)
Thank you

Dear Psychopomp (47:19.042)
Yeah, think it's, no, that's beautiful because, I mean, that's all, that's all we get from our friends is just little bits at a time. Little bits of who we are and who they are and then it intermingles and so if you keep...

You know, sprinkle here, sprinkle there.

Dear Psychopomp (47:43.054)
It makes you seen, it makes them seen. And I love how, I don't want to say popular, I love how...

People are becoming more aware of or vocal with their grief and talking about grief and talking about death.

Hannah (48:08.393)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (48:11.756)
because I think that's part of why grief is so hard because, you know, North America, we're like, we don't talk about that. Good vibes only. It's like, no, no, that's no, but when you can.

Hannah (48:20.615)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (48:32.472)
just sprinkle in, like they say that wholeness is not happiness. Wholeness is balancing out every single emotion and recognizing, acknowledging, validating all of the emotions.

Hannah (48:51.497)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (48:53.302)
including the ones that make you uncomfortable. Because especially today, we hate being uncomfortable.

Hannah (48:56.671)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (49:01.484)
yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (49:02.991)
We like our creature comforts and that's okay, but that's made us just terrified of talking about.

Things that aren't only happy.

And then on the other end of the spectrum you have people who do like the trauma dumping and they're focusing only on the grief and there's people focusing only on happiness and it's so finding that that sacred balance.

Hannah (49:35.283)
Mm-hmm.

Dear Psychopomp (49:37.518)
of everything in between is just, it's hard. It's daily. It's like hygiene. You gotta work on it every day. There's no one who's one grief.

Hannah (49:44.841)
Mm-hmm.

Hannah (49:53.267)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (49:53.487)
They didn't beat it. They didn't win gold in the grief Olympics. was just...

Hannah (49:55.633)
Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (50:03.202)
they accepted it and you accept happiness. that's like one of the sayings I have is, you know, if things are going bad, this too shall pass. And if things are going good, this too shall pass.

It's recognizing that it'll also come back, but then it'll go away again.

Hannah (50:29.599)
It's so hard. It's so hard to accept that.

Dear Psychopomp (50:29.911)
You

Dear Psychopomp (50:33.962)
Living is not difficult because you're doing something wrong or anything like that. Like living is hard because being alive is difficult.

Hannah (50:47.443)
Yeah, it is.

Dear Psychopomp (50:49.29)
It just is.

Hannah (50:53.439)
Yeah.

And that's why I like my

Hannah (51:01.897)
word goal isn't the right word but the way I want to live rather than like my goal the way I want to live is I want to fully grieve and fully live and like and that's like what you're saying like fully experience my sadness my grief my anger and fully experience my joy my going out to the world and doing things you know whatever that is meeting people

Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (51:34.455)
Absolutely.

Dear Psychopomp (51:38.766)
Yeah, well, thank you so much for sitting and having a chat with me today. It's been absolutely lovely. And do you want to let the listeners know about your grief groups?

Hannah (51:48.105)
Thank you.

Hannah (51:57.279)
Yes, yes. So I offer friend loss grief groups, their peer support. Right now they're virtual on Zoom. So you can go to friendsmissingfriends.com slash grief group to see what's available. Reach out to me if you have questions, friendsmissingfriends.gmail.com. Yeah, and I wanna continue expanding what I offer because friend loss is...

disenfranchised and widely ignored by our world so there are not very many resources out there. Yeah.

Dear Psychopomp (52:33.922)
Very true. I'm so grateful that you've created this platform for this grief because it's...

It is, it's disenfranchised, it's...

It's not romanticized or anything like that. It's just we're supposed to be like, a friend. You know, even when you get like time off work, briefmint leave or whatever, if you're not immediately related to them.

Hannah (53:01.619)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, too bad.

Dear Psychopomp (53:07.018)
It's like, okay, even though I was closer with them than I was with like my own family, sure. Great. So, I digress. It is.

Hannah (53:13.425)
Mm-hmm. It's infuriating. It's a whole thing. I can rant about it for hours. I'm mad it makes me. Yes.

Dear Psychopomp (53:21.198)
me to tune in for the next episode where we just roast the system.

Hannah (53:33.341)
Which system? All the systems.

Dear Psychopomp (53:35.886)
All of them. That'll be next season.

Dear Psychopomp (53:42.348)
Awesome. All right, thank you again for being here. It has been so lovely. And thank you for listening to this week's episode. Once again, you can find Hannah online at friendsmissingfriends.com or on Instagram at friendsmissingfriends. And if this episode hits you in the feels, please hit the like button, share, follow and subscribe. If your platform allows, leave a comment and let me know what you think.

Hannah (53:42.42)
Yes.

Thank you so much.

Dear Psychopomp (54:12.738)
Your support keeps this podcast going and you can find me at dearsycopomp.com or contact at dearsycopomp.com. Death isn't a secret. Let's talk about it.