How to Advocate for Educational Audiology When the Service Does Not Exist

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What happens when a student who is deaf or hard of hearing does not have an educational audiologist on their educational team?  Join me in this episode with Dr. Kym Meyer as she shares how her grassroots efforts have grown to provide the IDEA related services to multiple districts across Massachusetts.  She received her undergraduate degree in communication disorders and education and her master’s degree in audiology from Gallaudet University.  In 1994 she obtained an educational audiology position at the Learning Center for the Deaf in Mass.  In 2001, she started what is now known as the Public School Partnerships which provides statewide educational audiology services in 80 school districts. Dr. Kym Meyer recently received her PhD in special education policy from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst with a focus on how to expand educational audiology services across the United States. Dr. Kym Meyer continues to utilize her research and professional knowledge in supporting students, parents, and professionals through her work at the university, state, and national levels.

Please check out the resources mentioned in this podcast! 

https://www.wrightslaw.com/info/rel.svcs.ed.aud.meyer.htm

https://www.audiologyonline.com/audiology-ceus/course/to-advocate-for-educational-audiology-33424

https://www.edaud.org/position-stat/15-position-02-18.pdf

To reach Dr. Kym Meyer:  

www.KymMeyer.com 

KymMeyerPhD@gmail.com

Twitter handle is @KymPMeyer

Transcript: https://www.3cdigitalmedianetwork.com/empowear-audiology-podcast

For more information about Dr. Carrie Spangler- check out her LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-spangler/

For transcripts of this episode- visit the podcast website at: https://empowearaudiology.buzzsprout.com

Transcript

[00:00:00] Announcer: Welcome to episode 35 of empowEAR Audiology with Dr. Carrie Spangler.
[00:00:17] Carrie: Welcome to the empowEAR Audiology podcast, which is part of the 3C Digital Media Network. My name is Dr. Carrie Spangler, and I am your host. I am a passionate audiologist with a lifelong journey of living with hearing challenges in this vibrant hearing world. This podcast is for professionals, parents, individuals, with your own challenges and those who want to be inspired.
[00:00:46] Thank you for listening, and I hope you will subscribe, invite others to listen and leave me a positive review. I also wanted to invite all of you to visit and engage in the conversation on the empowEAR Audiology Facebook group. Transcripts for each episode can be found at www dot three, the number three, C digital media network.com under the empowEAR podcast tab.
[00:01:19] Now let's get started with today's episode. I'd like to welcome Dr. Meyer to the empowEAR Audiology podcast. I am really looking forward to this conversation about how to advocate for educational audiology when the service might not exist. And I'm going to just give all of our listeners a little bio about you.
[00:01:40] And I'm just going to say back to Kym Meyer received her undergraduate degree in communication disorders and education. And she did her student teaching at Millnet Manor School for the deaf after teaching for a year. She decided to go back for her master's degree in audiology at Gallaudet university, with the intention of working in the clinical setting and not in the schools she worked as a clinical audiologist for a few years.
[00:02:09] Including at the Massachusetts eye and ear infirmary. And then she position as an educational audiologist opened up at the learning center for the deaf in Massachusetts. And she has been working for this organization ever since, since 1994. And then most recently a huge accomplishment Dr. Meyer graduated with a PhD in 2021 and special ed policy from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst.
[00:02:41] And one of the reasons that she decided to get this degree was to learn how to expand educational Audiology services for all deaf and hard of hearing students across the U S and Dr. Meyer, thank you for being on the empire audiology podcast. Thank
[00:03:00] Kym: you so much. It's really great to be. And yeah,
[00:03:04] Carrie: reason to go back to get your PhD is really a central topic for today's episode, which I'm really excited for our listeners to hear.
[00:03:14] But before we dig deeper into that, I always like to ask my professional guests, how did you get into the field of audiology? Was that someone or something that happened in your life that steered do this way.
[00:03:28] Kym: So I grew up hard of hearing in one ear. And so I, you know, it was learning sign language, but I was a spoken language user.
[00:03:35] And I decided to go with a certificate deaf education, which is how I kind of got started. Actually. Before I got into deaf education, I was actually a radio major. So I truly started in radio engineering. And I thought it was gonna be a DJ or a radio engineer. I did not like it. And so I started taking, I took an intro to audiology class and sign language, which classes of undergrad and loved it.
[00:03:56] Decided to go into education. I taught deaf blind adults for a year at Helen Keller national center. And really thought about what I wanted to do for the rest of my career. You know, looked at. The special education did I want to continue to be a teacher? I'm a speech language pathologist. And then I started, I did some observing of different people and observed audiology.
[00:04:14] And I said, that's what I want to do. I love the science of it. I love the, you know, kind of the range of people that you can work with. So I decided to go to Gallaudet University for my master's degree to kind of keep that, that education piece of it, but then also keep the science part as well. And.
[00:04:32] Good. And
[00:04:33] Carrie: you have done so much in the field. Why don't you say, I think I met you initially at an EAA conference. I want to say in Denver was when we met and we had a nice dinner and that's when I really got to know you. So I always find, have to connect with people all over the
[00:04:51] Kym: world. That's I love EAA conferences and can't wait till we can be all in comfortable
[00:04:57] Unmasked. That's really my hope. It is
[00:05:00] Carrie: my home too. So one of the things I know you went back for your PhD and really thinking about advocating for educational audiology to services. But I always know that. What you've done is huge. And we're going to talk about that, but it usually starts with some grassroots effort and along the way, because, so can you share a little bit about how you really got started with advocating for educational audiology services?
[00:05:32] Kym: Sure. So I was the school audiologist at the learning center for the deaf working with the deaf, deaf and hard of hearing children at our school. And I got a call one day from our, from the town that Framingham public schools called me. They knew who I was and they said you know, the special education director said we had an IEP meeting.
[00:05:48] The family moved up from North Carolina, I believe. And the, we had the IEP meeting and the parents said, well, where's the educational audiologist. And the special education director goes, I don't know what that is, but I know the deaf schools have one. So let me call them and find out. And I, at that point, explain to them, there are educational audiologists in public schools across the country, but not in New England at all.
[00:06:09] Only the deaf schools have educational audiology. And I got me thinking, why can it happen in other states, but not here? So I started doing a little more digging and I said, Especially directors didn't know they were supposed to and audiologists didn't know how to make them. So I went to some of my audiology friends.
[00:06:30] I still have lots of connections to the hospitals. And I said, I want you to start putting it into your reports. And educational audiology educational audiologists consultation is recommended. And they looked at me as if I was bonkers. They said, we don't have that. Why can we can't recommend it if we don't have it?
[00:06:48] And what I try to explain to them, you know, in my, in my special ed policy you know, PhD, I took. Special education law. And so it's not, they're supposed to do it's it's part, it's a related service under IDEA So they don't just get to say, well, we don't have it. So, you know, shook her shoulders and not do anything about it.
[00:07:08] So I to put it in and let's see what happens. And that was the trophy. special ed director. The parents were getting these reports from their clinical audiologist saying an educational audiology consultation is recommended. They were giving it to the special ed director. The special ed director was going, oh my gosh
[00:07:23] What do we do with this information? We don't have this. Where do we find it? And from there I was, I was given the, go ahead at my school to start a program 20 years ago that provided contract educational audiology services to public schools. And we have just boomed ever since. But you know, I can't, I can't, I'd love to replicate this in other places, but parents have to.
[00:07:42] We all have to work together to make this happen in other places. Yeah.
[00:07:46] Carrie: Wow. That is definitely a grassroots effort and a ripple effect that really happened in the whole process. So I think this conversation can be great because like you said, it could be replicated in other places and probably needs to be replicated in other places as well before.
[00:08:06] Too much deeper into policy. Can you just for our listeners, like start out with the why of like, why do children who are deaf and hard of hearing need an educational audiologist? Why can't they just have their clinical audiologist?
[00:08:23] Kym: You know, th that was the model in Massachusetts, before we had educational audiology and what the down part downfall of that was clinical audiologists often didn't know what to do with, with hat hearing, assistive technology.
[00:08:35] They'd just go we'll just order it, but I've never touched one since maybe college. So or it's not so much, you know, Just fitting the equipment, but getting into the classrooms and determining how is the equipment used? Are the teachers using, do they need additional accommodations? In addition to the the technology is the technology fit properly for a classroom?
[00:08:58] Is the teacher using it properly? You know, I, I can't tell you how many times I've walked. I've I've like tons of stories walking into a classroom and the teacher's wearing the microphone. First speaker and the speakers in the class. So, or they're using, they're using speakers when it's inappropriate to use them because it's not appropriate for the, for the child.
[00:09:16] So it needs to be an educational audiologist that chooses and fits the technology and then can get into the classroom and make sure that it's used properly.
[00:09:25] Carrie: Yeah. I think that partnership between the clinical and educational audiologist is so key for our students to be successful in the classroom.
[00:09:35] Definitely. So kind of getting to that question and really the meat of this podcast. What happens if a school district does not have an audiologist? Is this considered just nice to have if its available?
[00:09:54] Kym: So under the individuals with disabilities education act, IDEA which is special education law, there are a whole list of related service providers, occupational theory.
[00:10:06] Physical therapy, speech, language, pathology, nursing sign, language interpreters, audiology, or is listed there. Now think about what would happen if a family went to an IEP meeting and, and, and the team determined this child needs speech, language, pathology services, and the sped directors for the team chairperson who's running the meeting says, yeah, we don't have that.
[00:10:29] That's not allowed, right. Parents would go bonkers. I think the issue really is people don't know what's supposed to be there. I once asked a good friend of ours, Dr. Cheryl DeConde-Johnson. Why does Colorado state of Colorado has, has educational audiologists throughout the state? I said, how come your state has it?
[00:10:48] Mine. Doesn't. And she says, because our state followed the law. And so I, you know, and I kind of use that. It's like, okay, we need to, to, to show people what the law is. And then how do we make it available? Most parts of the country have school districts that are in large collaborative organizations here in New England.
[00:11:09] And in much of New York, we have these little individual towns. We don't have a collaborative type of program. So each individual's class district. It's town. The town I live in probably has 12 deaf and hard of hearing kids in the town. That's not enough to support a full-time educational audiologist.
[00:11:25] So there needed to be a different kind of model because a, a district couldn't hire them on their own. So so that's hopefully the, the model that we've created can be replicated in other places, states education as a state's right. What that means is states can set it up the way they want to. So in, in New England, Massachusetts, every town or collaborative town can do what they, you know, had their own educational system.
[00:11:47] In other states, they have huge regional systems which work for an educational audiologist hired in those, in those communities. Parents need to be given the tools in order to determine, you know, to, to advocate for their child.
[00:12:04] Carrie: I definitely. And like you said, you've done a lot with Wright law too. And I want to, I'm going to definitely ask you more about that document that you helped for that website too.
[00:12:17] But before we move on, I know you talked about IDEA, but what about. Some of our students who are deaf and hard of hearing may not be eligible for a specially designed instruction through an IEP. However, they still have hearing difficulties that they may need accommodation through a 504 plan. Can an educational audiologist be requested for this type of plan as well?
[00:12:44] Kym: Absolutely. 504 plans. You're correct. Do not require a specially designed instruction. That's what an IEP is for, but what for 504 plans, what they see, it's an access law. And so what the child needs is the access to the general education curriculum. And they can either use, they can use to, to, to gain that access accommodations or related services.
[00:13:07] Remember I mentioned before audiology is a related . Listed so we can provide the same kind of approach on IEP or 504.
[00:13:18] Carrie: Okay. That's great information to know, because I think most of that, I could see that fit into one of those two categories and the public school type system too. And another thing, I mean, I think educational ideologists, we went to be part of that whole team.
[00:13:35] Does the educational audiologist bring to that whole team that might be doing. Than what a speech language pathologist or a teacher of the deaf brings to that
[00:13:45] Kym: team. It's really important that those three professions work collaboratively you know, often with SLPs and I, I do training of SLPs at the universities that I work in.
[00:13:56] You know, they get one. And in, in hearing you know, what hearing loss is or technology. And so they had their expertise in that child. They might know that child really well, but how the hearing loss impacts the child's ability to access. They might not have that information. That's where the audiologists can come in, come in.
[00:14:14] There is, you know, teachers of the deaf Certainly that's all they do. But my, my dissertation, my PhD dissertation was actually on the teacher of the deaf shortage in our state in Massachusetts. So, you know, we don't have enough teachers of the deaf either. So, you know, it would be great if, if they had children who had both access, but, but truly on 504, as I mentioned before, 504 is an access related services, audiologists related service.
[00:14:39] So audiologists can provide that service on 504. Teachers of the deaf educators usually cannot. So that's why we kind of be important part of how the technology works, how the how it impacts the child, how it's used properly. That's what a, an educational audiologist can bring in. In our, in my program our teachers of the deaf in our educational audiology, Work very collaboratively in order to make sure that, you know, when there's technology questions, my audiologist will step in, in other districts.
[00:15:09] The audiologist is the only one providing the service. And so supporting the public ed, the regular classroom teachers on a regular basis.
[00:15:17] Carrie: Yeah, no dig a little deeper and a hearing assistive technology. Can't they just order that and get it out of the box and be ready to go
[00:15:26] Kym: Yeah, they can, I can they can and I've seen so much bad happen on that because I I'll tell a story.
[00:15:36] Cause my students know that I'm always full of stories. I once was asked to you know, go into a classroom and the, it was a, it was in February, I think. And they asked me to the school district, asked me to come in and said, well we've, we've just, we've decided to stop using the equipment on this child.
[00:15:57] That was a child I'd never met. I didn't fit the HAT quipment. And the parent and the district decided that they were going to take. The FM had equipment because it wasn't working, but the parents kind of pushed back and said, I want an educational audiologist to come in and look at the system.
[00:16:14] So now this February, so back in September, they did the school district. Did exactly that the speech language pathologist ordered the, the HAT system fitted on the child's a six year old child. And they said his behavior got worse. His you know, he just stopped. He wasn't making progress academically.
[00:16:35] So in February I get called in, I go in to check the hearing aid. I check the hearing aid. I listen to the hearing aid. It shut off. Every time you put the FM, the audio shoe wanted, the hearing aids shut off. So he had no amplification from September to February. And I'm like, and you didn't think that this was a problem back in September, October.
[00:17:00] I tell that story because it's the most frightening thing that can happen. They said, well, we did everything we were supposed to do. I said you didn't bring in an audiologists and you know, tons of stories like that, kids having equipment that doesn't fit with their, their hearing aids or their cochlear implants.
[00:17:17] You know, there's just so much not, not being done well. You know, you're going to, if an audiologist, I mean, sorry, but speech, language, pathologist, or a teacher the deaf does it, they're putting their license, their state license, their teacher license. There has somebody licensed at risk because they're not, it's not within their scope of practice in order to fit this equipment.
[00:17:39] Carrie: Yeah. And that's a great point. So you may have a director or administrator that Say to the SLP or the teacher of the deaf, you know, this is part of your role. And I , especially in some, maybe rural areas where they don't have a lot of outside connection. What would you say? You know, advice, can you give to that?
[00:18:06] Professional.
[00:18:07] Kym: Right. So, yeah, I get that a lot. I, you know, often I'll go into a, you know, I'll meet SLPs or I'll meet teachers and they'll kind of on the slide. Tell me, you know, I, I tell my sped director that I can't, but you know, they say I have to, it's my job and really. I want to, I want to tell all of those people listening today, that this is not your job.
[00:18:29] If you're not a licensed audiologist in your state, it is not your job to fit equipment. And you're functioning outside of your scope of practice. And I would say exactly that this is outside of my scope of practice. It's putting my teacher license, my SLP license and the school district In, in potentially a litigious situation.
[00:18:51] And you know, it's better if we get, if we get an audiologist it's not better, we need an audiologist. You use actually words, and this is what we need. We need an audiologist to come and fit this equipment. Or, and when you mentioned this earlier, if the child if you don't have happen to have an educational audiologist where you can't find one, then the clinical audiologist needs to do this.
[00:19:12] You need to pay the clinical audiologists for that service. And then the child will bring the equipment back and we'll make sure that it's, that it's, you know, functioning in the classroom. But to say that it's now the SLPs are the teacher of the deaf job. It's pretty frightening. I mean, I, I look at a lot of you know, groups on Facebook that she showed the deaf groups and there are just some pretty frightening things.
[00:19:33] You know, teachers that have her saying, I've got this child with a Baha. And I, how do I fit the, the FM to it? And I'm like, please don't please. But, you know, sometimes I'll, I'll, I'll message them privately and say, you know, just that please don't. And they say my job is on the line and that's just scary.
[00:19:55] And so how do we, we need to get more word out to parents so that they can help advocate for their child and for their selves
[00:20:02] Carrie: I'm sure a lot of it also got comes down to, they want to make sure whatever child they're working with is getting what they need. But you know, some of these, the other stories that we can probably both share about hearing assistance technology I don’t know, non-functioning because of the related service of educational audiology, not being there is really critical.
[00:20:30] Kym: And that happens, I think more often than any of us will ever know, because people don't know to check it. Don't know how to check it. Don't know that they're supposed to check it on a daily basis. That is actually in the law as well. It is a. Tell special, special education directors that it's supposed to be checked on a daily basis.
[00:20:49] I've been called a liar. And and I said, well, here's the here's the the guidance in IDEA here's, here's the, the, you know, the the section that you should read and, and it's, you know, that is supposed to happen. And so when parents learn the kinds of things that their school should be doing to make sure that the equipment and the technology is functioning on a daily basis, and then they can advertise that they can advocate for their child as well.
[00:21:15] Carrie: And I think that checking on a daily basis is so critical to, and I'll just tell them real quick story about non functioning technology too. There was a district that didn't have an educational audiologist, and I think it was probably a year later that we ended up contracting with that district. And I was brought in and I went in same thing, check the equipment.
[00:21:38] They had all the right pieces and parts there. And I went to listen to it and I'm like, this, the microphone is not working, you know, everything's on. And this was when we still had the little stickers and the contacts before the hearing aids and. It would say it was connected, but there was no sound.
[00:22:00] So this student for a whole year, they were doing this whole process of putting on audio shoes and connecting. And the child was never hearing out of that microphone for an entire year.
[00:22:14] Kym: And I think, you know, that going back to the six year old, same kind of story, one of, you know what I told me, the speech language pathologist who fit the equipment and shouldn't have you know, he's not hearing anything.
[00:22:26] Well, why didn't he tell me because he's six. And I think often what we see is the expectations of an adult told me to wear this equipment. I'm going to do it even though, you know, and it becomes this kind of self gaslighting of, well, I don't think it works, but I don't want to tell them that. Or if I tell them that they're going to tell you I'm wrong or, you know, so it's, you know, I once got called into a school district and they were, they were telling me that the the child is not, you know, they're just making stuff up.
[00:22:55] And I, I never go there first because I just don't. And so I went in and I listened and I said, he's not making this up. I'm here, it's intermittent. And that's part of the problem. When you have intermittency, it doesn't always not work when you want it to not work. So but I sat there for a whole day and I listened to him.
[00:23:15] This child is not making this up, this needs to go out for. And so, so that when that becomes the go-to, oh, they're probably making it up that that causes children to say, you know what, I'm not going to say anything we have to believe. Right.
[00:23:28] Carrie: And then adding onto that when someone's getting HAT for the first time and it doesn't work.
[00:23:36] The student doesn't know what it's supposed to found. Like I don't have, so of course, you know, that like, okay,
[00:23:44] Kym: exactly. When I got that six-year-olds equipment to work, I went outside the door and I always play Simon says or something. And so it was a door with a window. So you can, I can see each other.
[00:23:53] And I played Simon says, and he, his eyes were like, oh my gosh, is that what I was supposed to be listening for? I said, it's supposed to. And I told him, I said, this is what it's supposed to sound like if it doesn't sound. Tell a grownup, but that it's not working. Okay. I will. But it's so heartbreaking that it was February from September to February, that child did not hear it.
[00:24:13] And that's, that's one of my worst stories, but not the only one I have.
[00:24:18] Carrie: I know, but it highlights the importance of why the educational audiologist need. Figuring out what type of technology is appropriate to put depending on what they have personally, as well as, you know, classroom acoustics and all of those other things that are important for access in the classroom.
[00:24:40] What have you found as some of the main challenges for schools not to be able to find or access an educational audiologist?
[00:24:50] Kym: It is challenging and certainly our program would not be here if we didn't set it up. The
[00:24:57] you know, one of the things I would say is, is, you know, contact your, if there's a local parent organization, like a Hands and Voices. Do they know of what do they, is there a neighboring town that has one contact and see if you can contract with them? You know, contact one of the things we're starting with the educational audiology association.
[00:25:17] It's not really out a lot. There is contact EAA our parent organization and see if their state representatives were I'm one of the I'm the Massachusetts state representative. If you contact the person who can they refer you to, that can provide educational audiology services at the very least, if you can't get any anyone use the clinical audiologists that the child already goes to and, and partner partner with them.
[00:25:40] And these are some of the ideas that I put in the Wrights law document that I, that I published a few years.
[00:25:48] Carrie: Yeah. And can you share just a little bit more about how you got involved in that that Wrigth’s Law document and what that Wright’s Law document really would benefit for those who are
[00:26:00] Kym: listening today or so rights law is a website that was created by a special education attorney Pete Wright and His wife, who's a parent
[00:26:12] Right. And it, it really is quite rich in explaining the special education to families. Lots of parents, they do webinars and they do in-person trainings all over the country. I've been in their training. It's wonderful. One of the things that they they do is they put information out about related services, you know?
[00:26:31] And so one day they put out some information about a related service, a list of related services, and there was a whole list and audiology was missing from it. Now I I've gone back to, I wanted to make sure at the time did IDEA, especially law change. And I did not know it because. That shouldn't be but it did not.
[00:26:50] Audiology is still listed there. So I reached out to them and I said, you forgot audiology. And, and can you put it into that list? And they came back and they said, well, we don't have anything on educational audiology on the Wrights law website, would you be willing to write something? And so I did, I'd never done anything like that kind of writing before.
[00:27:09] And so it is on the website that I think it was in 2017 or 2018 that I wrote that. And They and what I have since learned is families around the country are using that document to advocate for educational audiologist services in their child's school as to why it's needed informing special ed directors, that it's a related service under IDEA.
[00:27:29] And so it's just basically a list of everything we're talking about today. You know, what happens if, if, if something. They don't have them have one. What can an educational audiologists do and, and provide some, some support and information there. I've been also contacted by you know, parents all over the country as well about that.
[00:27:47] So it's kind of really nice that it's making the waves and it's kind of getting out there. Yeah,
[00:27:52] Carrie: it's a great document. I know I've looked at it and been able to share that with, I had just, not only parents to direct too, but it's just a well written document that really explains what our role is and how IDEA supports that role too.
[00:28:09] Kym: Thank you. Well, I'm hopefully, hopefully it'll stay up there and be used by people. And I know that
[00:28:15] Carrie: you've done some webinars, for audiology online, teaching clinical audiologists that had an advocate for education audiology. Do you want to share any more about that
[00:28:25] Kym: webinar? So that was very specific to clinical audiologists.
[00:28:30] At the beginning of this. Remember I talked about putting you know, making a recommendation in the, in, in, in a report. You know, that's the clinical that's one of the critical pieces is we need to get the word out that this is what the clinical audiologist is recommending. You know, most AUD programs.
[00:28:48] I don't want to say most, I don't know how many AuD programs. It would be progress, but I know that there are 80 programs that never really even mentioned educational audiology in their, in their clinical training. So most audiology many, including, oh, y'all just may even not know about what do I need to do. This is what, so basically this was laid out.
[00:29:05] Step-by-step what clinical audiologists can do in order to advocate with their parents. About educational audiology services. One of the things I say is every time that parent leaves, they should get that Wrights Law documents. Every report they write, they should put in that recommendation that they are making a you know, the child needs an educational audiology consultation.
[00:29:26] The more they can say. The more, the district is going to start listening because, you know, if you say it once I, you know, I've worked in education, my whole career almost especially directors will go, yay. Yeah. When they get four or five reports from different audiologists that say the same thing, they're going to start to say, maybe I have to do something about this.
[00:29:46] And that's how change is it it. Yeah,
[00:29:49] Carrie: definitely. Do you have any other thoughts? Like it just kind of rang a bell in my head about how do we educate maybe more at a grassroots, but also at a national level for special ed directors. And what our role is as educational audiologist
[00:30:08] Kym: One of the, one of the challenge.
[00:30:10] So I'm a member of the council for exceptional children, which is a special education organization. There's not one overarching group where all sped directors belong to. And that's part of the issue. CASE is one special ed director group counsel, I'm not going to get the acronym, right? It's CASE And maybe split directors belong to it, but not all of them.
[00:30:32] And so kind of in my, you know, my next kind of iteration, I wanted to think about how do we get our, get, get the information out there. But more broadly to the special education community so that they can then advocate you know, further you know, so I'm hoping with this podcast, we can help with, you know, getting teachers and SLPs kind of the wording that they need to know with the, the webinar, the audiology online webinar, the you know, having educational clinical audiologists provide the you know, the wording and how to, how to do things from their perspective, by the way that, that podcast that Webinar is free to access for anybody to access.
[00:31:08] And but, but I don't think that's going to, that we can't, I can't end there. We can't end there, but we need to continue to, for all of those deaf and hard of hearing kids living, particularly in places like rural communities you know, how can we provide services now with you know, since COVID sadly we've now used more.
[00:31:26] Zoom and use more opportunities for remote work. How can that factor into, you know, if you have a child living in, you know, some rural county and they're the only hard of hearing child, you know, in a hundred mile radius, it's probably a realistic to say it, audiologists going to drive there every week, but, well, how can we use remote technology in order to connect with the school districts and do, do some observing and give some feedback and.
[00:31:52] The people that are there in order to make sure that the child is really is accessing their school
[00:31:58] Carrie: good outside the box, thinking for that too. Right. And I know I can actually link in the show notes the Wrights law document, as well as your audiologoy online webinars. Because I think both of those are great resources, but people did to click on too.
[00:32:16] But I know you are an active member of the education audiology association, and there's also a number of documents there. Do you want to just highlight some of those in case people want to reference those or go look at that?
[00:32:30] Kym: So one of the, one of the documents that I share with my students, I share with my, my staff know about this and, and special ed directors, which I think is really important.
[00:32:39] I think one of, one of the issues about special education or special ed directors is they. Hearing loss. Deaf and deaf, hard of hearing. Children are a very, very small number of what they do. What we know is it's, it's less than 1% of all children are on IEP, how hearing loss as a primary disability. So because of that, they don't really know.
[00:33:01] They just know hearing, you know, hearing the teacher does as hearing SLP does hearing. So that's why they kind of lump them in. There was a great document that that EAA put out a few years ago, it's called shared and suggested roles of educational audiologists, teachers of the deaf and hard of hearing and speech, language pathologists.
[00:33:18] There is a lot of overlap in what we do, and there's a lot of things that, that an SLP can do it where I can do depending on what it is. But there are things that only in SLP. Things only a teacher of the deaf can do and things only an audiologist can do. And that shared, suggested roles document from EAA really outlines what, everything that needs to happen for a child who is deaf or hard of hearing.
[00:33:42] And then which person is the only profession that can do it. And then. There are checkboxes in those that are already there saying this is the job for an audiologist, selecting, and fitting how adequate that is an audiologist job, but then there's some, some you know, boxes that aren't checked, which means anyone can do it, but who is assigned to do it?
[00:34:03] That's also important. One of the things I mentioned before is daily checks of hearing aids, cochlear, implants, and HAT. That doesn't have to be on by an audiologist or even a speech language pathologist, but who is going to do that? And it needs to be intentional. We need to be talking to school teams about, okay, well, it has to be done.
[00:34:23] And the classroom teacher is not the right person to do it because they are busy with 23 other people. So what else, who can we teach? You know, I basically say I'll look at a group of teachers or a team and say, okay, well who who's got the, the tech team. It's got the technology gene who will, who likes doing that kind of stuff.
[00:34:42] And then I grabbed them either the nurse or the teacher's aid or someone who's available and accessible to check the child's equipment on a daily basis. So all of that information is in that shared the shared resources. And then you can go through and kind of write in whose job is it to do that. And who was their backup?
[00:35:02] And it's a, it's a, it's quite extensive, it's an extensive document. And I certainly recommend that people will look at it because it's also good for advocating. You know, if, if a parent is learning that. A computer tech is fitting their kids equipment. I've had it happen. They can use this document to say, you know, this is an audiologist job, not the computer tech people.
[00:35:26] You know, one of the things I mentioned about whose job is it, you know, teachers, the teachers of the deaf and. SLPs, aren't trained to fit equipment. They're not trained to select a pro to select the equipment they're trained to maintain it. They're trained to, to, to, if there's something wrong to maybe fix it or get started at fixing it, but that's not their training.
[00:35:47] And so that's what an audiologist is trained to do. So that's shared and suggested roles of educational, audiologists, teachers of the deaf and SLPs. That is a great document for people to take away. And I learned what, who should be doing what.
[00:36:00] Carrie: And I think your point earlier about the fact that whether it's on the 1% of a very small percentage of students who are on IEP, who have deaf and hard of hearing as a primary disability, this document is so important for, like you said, it's a checklist it's very detailed for these teams that are not used to having a student in the district who needs these services.
[00:36:25] Kym: They don't know what they don't know. It's, it's just that they don't know. They think, you know, when you and I have both had this experience where they go, oh, those hearing aids or those cochlear implants, they're just going to fix everything. And they're just going to be like glasses. I'm wearing glasses.
[00:36:40] You know, my glasses make me see 20, 20, it's the same as hearing. And we all know who work in audiology. That's not the case. And so, you know, and, and so they just assume that the technology is the only thing the child needs and. Nothing, you know, the accommodations are lesser and there's just so much that needs to happen in order to have high expectations for deaf and hard of hearing kids and to make sure that they are reaching their potential.
[00:37:05] Carrie: Definitely. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you're like, I wish I would've asked you that you want to share with all of our listeners
[00:37:17] Kym: So a few years ago I, I did this kind of this presentation to mainstream conference, Rochester, New York. And one of the things, because, you know, I, I knew what I thought I knew, but I said, I want you, so I did one of those, you know, they can type into their phones and it comes up on a screen what they're saying.
[00:37:35] And so one of the questions was why do you as teachers of the deaf, why do you need education on. And I was kind of, it was just so nice to hear there and I still have it. You know, I, I don't know the most current technology to support the student as well as the interpreter with hearing aids and cochlear implants to troubleshooting.
[00:37:54] As a teacher, I spend my time researching best practices and teaching. I don't have the time to learn all the tech as well on they're the experts, the audiologists are the experts. And so it was really kind of, I, whenever I need, I feel like a little down, I go back to this list because it's important to say, you know, they don't, they don't want to do teaching job.
[00:38:13] That's what they want. They just don't know how to, to navigate their administrator to say, this is not my job as well. I'm not everything with deaf and hard of hearing and SLPs. My, no, even less about deaf and hard of hearing, like I said, they have one class. So we need to provide that, you know, we're here to kind of give you the terminology so that you can kind of move forward and, and maybe get educational audiologist in your district, either hired by your district, a consult model.
[00:38:41] You know, at someone at, at at least to make sure that the clinical audiologist is part of the team.
[00:38:48] Carrie: No, this is a wonderful information, and I hope that our listener to this today. We'll be able to use our, these incredible resources and your webinar in order to create that ripple effect. If they currently don't have an educational audiologist, how, how do they access one or get one in one shape or form, if I listeners would like to get in touch with you, how would they do that?
[00:39:13] Kym: So I'm very active on Twitter at K Y M P Meyer. And so that's one way to get in touch with me. I have a website, it's with some still building it, but it's kymmeyer.com and you know, and what we'll do is I'll put in the show notes, my email address, certainly if anybody wants to contact you.
[00:39:33] And I
[00:39:33] Carrie: can also put your Twitter handle and your website address in the show notes too, so that our listeners can get a hold of you that way. Well, Kym, I just want to say thank you so much for being a guest on the empowEAR Audiology podcast. That was such a positive, I guess, empowering conversation about educational audiologists and how we can help our students who are out there in the schools who had deaf and hard of hearing to really get all of the services that they need.
[00:40:01] So thank you for being a part of this.
[00:40:02] Kym: Thank you so much for this opportunity. It was wonderful. It was great talking to you and seeing you again.
[00:40:08] Carrie: All right. Thank you listeners for listening and tuning it.
[00:40:12] Announcer: This has been a production of the 3C Digital Media Network.