Lots to Unpack There
We’re Jess and Lisa, two best friends in our 40s living in Maryland. This podcast is about life, motherhood, leadership, and everything in between. We’re navigating the “messy middle” of personal and professional life and have learned that having someone who just gets it makes the journey less hard.
Each week, we’ll share something real from our own lives and unpack it together in real time. Our hope is that as we process and reflect, it’ll inspire and help you do the same—wherever you are.
Lots to Unpack There
Unpack Snack: Sharing the Layoff News
Navigating the complex emotional terrain of sharing layoff news with professional connections reveals stark differences in how people respond based on relationship closeness.
• Close colleagues often react with validating support and even anger on your behalf
• Acquaintances typically offer polite sympathy but little more, which can trigger insecurity
• Most people's muted responses come from their own discomfort or self-reflection
• Post-pandemic layoffs are widely understood as rarely performance-related
• Professional reputation concerns can make broadcasting layoff news on platforms like LinkedIn feel risky
• A phased approach might work best - starting with one-on-one conversations with key contacts
• Ultimately, accepting that you can't control others' perceptions is freeing
We can only control how we share our news, not how others perceive it. Focus your energy on connections who truly understand your value rather than worrying about judgments from those who don't know you well.
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Music Playing.
Speaker 2:Good morning, hi. It's an unpacked snack.
Speaker 3:I'm ready for it. I'm ready for a snack.
Speaker 3:All right what are you snacking on today? Oh, what am I snacking on? Do you mean actual snacks or do you mean unpacked snacks? No, unpacked snacks. Snacking on, I mean, do you mean actual snacks or do you mean unpack snacks? No, unpack snacks.
Speaker 3:Well, I was noodling over something which was the idea of for those who listen to the larger podcast, our regular podcast, you will know that I was laid off recently from my job in a big corporation, big global corporation, and I have had the somewhat displeasure of having to notify everyone that I work with that this happened because, of course, it's quite a private, quick conversation with my manager, and then I have a month of working in my job, so both people inside and outside of my job that I have to tell that this happened. And I've noticed there's a very, very big difference in telling people who I worked closely with and telling people who I worked not closely with, so people who I might have had like some interactions, but they're not in my organization. And for me this is many, many, many, many, many people tens, maybe hundreds of people, not necessarily people that I'm having a one-on-one conversation with about this, but people who I work with but don't see me every single day. Don't see me at every meeting. They see me in passing, like in specific situations.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right right. I can think of that echelon of people from my own corporate experience where it's like you've been in maybe you worked in a project together once or you had just a passing meeting with, but not closely continuing, or even people that you meet regularly with, but they only see you in that one context, Sure sure, sure Right.
Speaker 3:So I found that when I am notifying people who I work very closely with, who are in my same organization, it's a very, very nice validating interaction, because they go what? This is crazy. There might be explicatives there might be. You know there's lots of that kind of thing there might be. You know there's lots of that kind of thing. And when I tell people outside of that, that group, that core group, I feel like and this is this is what I'm unpacking is like is this in my head or is this actually happening when I feel like they initially go like, oh no, that's terrible. And then I feel like maybe again, maybe I'm projecting this, but then they start to think of like reasons why that happened and they're kind of in their head going oh, maybe she wasn't as great as I thought she was, because she's being laid off, and anyone who's been laid off knows that that's not really part of the calculation.
Speaker 3:But there's many many, many people who are not laid off and don't realize the performance piece is not usually impacting the layoff choice very much. Sometimes I'm sure it does, but most of the time it's not really about performance, it's just about the numbers or the situation or the pay or whatever the case may be. And so I've noticed people that I work less closely with. I get definitely a less effusive response and in my head I was like, oh, they're kind of going back into all of our interactions and looking for reasons why they either didn't know me well enough or didn't know me to the point where they could say she was wonderful and this is crazy. Or they're just saying like, oh, obviously she was not nearly as good as I thought she was because she laid off so what other options are there?
Speaker 2:that's a very specific sort of story you're telling yourself yes, it is a very specific story I'm telling myself.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of this is my own projection, like I like I kind of teased it at the beginning, which is like I think this is more or less kind of what I do when I hear this information from somebody that I maybe don't work very closely with Maybe we don't even work in the same company and I'm going back through all of the people that this has happened to over the last couple of years, and there's a lot. I have a whole pile of people that I'm close with professionally that this has happened to. I have a whole pile of people that I'm close with professionally that this has happened to.
Speaker 1:And I don't think that I've done this with them.
Speaker 3:but I could see myself doing it right. I could kind of envision a scenario where I would be thinking these things like oh, maybe they were actually crap and they just saved all their best. You know quippy things for me, you know, I don't know, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So I can offer a reframe. I would love a reframe. I would love a reframe, I would take one. So most people are thinking about themselves. Yeah, I'm just going to say that, in general, most people are thinking about themselves, and so what I'm imagining is actually happening is they hear this news and they think, whoa what? And now it feels close to home. And if it was you and they had this vision of you, then it could be them. They could be asking themselves what does this mean for our relationship? What does it mean for our company's relationship or our organization's relationship? Just trying to put all those pieces together. And then, on top of that, I think there's this human part that's like I have no idea what to say. I have no idea.
Speaker 3:That's true enough, cause that has definitely been me where I'm like. I have no idea what to say to this person that is going to be in any way helpful and not triggering of additional like hurt somehow, but accidentally, right.
Speaker 2:And so I'm thinking back to all of the times and, as we have talked about, I didn't really have the opportunity to have that conversation with people because it was so quick, there wasn't this weird 30 day thing. But I think if I were encountering it now, one of the first things I would ask would be how are you feeling about that? Because everybody's reaction is so different, and I have one client who was recently laid off and she's saying I'm okay and I'm grieving. But I have other people who have been laid off and the primary response that they're having is I'm scared and I'm angry, but it can range, the full range of human emotions.
Speaker 2:Other people, as we talked about, might be experiencing relief and so kind of knowing that those are the questions. But if they don't know you well enough, they're probably not going to feel comfortable asking you that, and so I wonder if there's anything you might do to kind of sort this story out from the get-go as you're having these conversations.
Speaker 3:And I think where I kind of got to this story in the first place was that they tend to not say very much at all, whereas the people that I'm close with are incredibly like. They're angry on my behalf, they're shocked on my behalf. They kind of take on the persona of me and they go what is this all about? How can they do this? I mean, they do all of the things that you would expect somebody to kind of go through in their head as somebody laid off, whereas the people who are slightly more removed from me tend to say very little other than that's terrible, I'm so sorry this is happening to you, and then that's sort of it, that's the maximum. Oh sorry, this is happening to you, and then that's sort of it, that's the maximum. And maybe that's exactly why is that they don't know what to say.
Speaker 2:That, I think, would be the primary culprit for that and you alluded to it, but kind of, the view of layoffs has changed a lot since the pandemic I think before the pandemic, if there were a layoff since the pandemic, I think before the pandemic.
Speaker 3:if there were a layoff, most people would say oh, it's job performance, unless it was part of some sort of bigger corporate restructuring. Right, this whole organization is being dismantled, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:But now, and I think even the way your company does it is very, very granular. It's down to the position and not even within the organization, and so I think that could be playing a part of it, but most people, I would say now, judging by my LinkedIn network, layoffs are not at all, or if they are, they're very little performance based. I mean, performance might be the last thing that gets checked off, but but it's like even a strong performer might not be enough to save the position if the company is doing these really big productions.
Speaker 3:And it might never get factored in. It might be that cost is the first line item and that's the only box that needs to get checked. Right, yeah, exactly, because once you check that box, you're like okay, great, this is how this is going, because that's the exact amount of money that we need to save. So, boom done.
Speaker 2:And I think in some ways that makes it a lot easier for the decision maker because you don't have to think about the human aspect of this. I mean, it has to be done from that perspective. Okay, so you have dueling stories that could be happening. Okay, so you have dueling stories that could be happening. Yeah, is it knowable? Is it something that you can find out? Absolute truth to no.
Speaker 3:I don't think that's the case in this particular situation.
Speaker 2:What do you need to do to choose a different story? Gosh.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I think that's the reason why I haven't gone wide with this information, like, say, on LinkedIn, for example, because that's so many people who are very, very loosely associated with me, rather than people who are there. Obviously are people who are close to me on LinkedIn, but for the most part they're people who are just threads Right throughout the you know, my network, and so that's why I worry. I'm like, oh, if I, if I put this information out there, there's going to be a certain percentage of people who just assume I did this to myself somehow by being a bad performer, by being, you know, troublesome or difficult or something I don't know, and I think I think that is actually true. There is a percentage that will get there.
Speaker 2:Right, but what bearing does that have on you? Who are those people to you in this greater looking for what's?
Speaker 3:next chapter. I don't know. I guess I assume that it will kind of bring down my social status by a percentage or a fraction of a percentage, and I think status is really, really important when your industry looks for experts, which I am an expert, and I don't think that would change my expert status, but I think it might tarnish it like a slightly patina piece of silver.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking about the conversation we had about my middle daughter, who told everybody that she was really good at swimming and everybody believed her Right, and wondering if maybe there's some crafting of language that you can do here that will put the message you want out.
Speaker 3:Right, I think you're absolutely right. That is definitely possible to say like, even though this did not have to do with my performance blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it's still. You know, it makes whatever I haven't really thought about it.
Speaker 2:I mean, do you even have to tell people that your position was eliminated? Can't you just be looking for a new?
Speaker 3:role already know. I don't know. I don't know. I think, as long as I can get on board with the idea that certain percentage of people will put on their judgy hat and make assumptions which is true no matter what you say truly, and that doesn't really have an effect on me or who I am or how I show up I think maybe just accepting that there are a certain number of people that will do this and those people don't know me very well, I assume that this sort of job change announcement or notification on LinkedIn is a means to an end, and that is finding another job Right Exactly, and so I wonder if you even need to broadcast it, or if you just need to tell people in your network who can help you find what's next.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was a piece of advice given to me to do this, to announce it to everybody and to be very open about it, and I was like I don't know if that's me, I don't know if that's who.
Speaker 2:I am.
Speaker 2:I think it's true that you never know who in your network might step up for you and have an opportunity, and that's kind of the upside here, but if what you're worried about is tarnished reputation and the potential downside that comes with it, I think that's really the question is are the people who can help me not going to? The only way they're going to know is through this blast, or do you know in your network who you might want to reach out to individually? Right, and then, maybe this is a phased approach, maybe it's not an all or nothing. Maybe the beginning is to have these one-on-one conversations, right, that's sort of how I've approached it up until this point.
Speaker 3:But as I start to transition out of my company for good, I feel like it's going to become more black and white and less in this gray space where I'm working my way through it very slowly and mindfully with specific people.
Speaker 2:So, yeah. Okay, so what's one next step you want to take?
Speaker 3:I think, getting on board with the fact that the more people know, the more likely this is to to be that way and being okay with that, to accept that for what it is, but have the belief in people that they are the people who truly know me even if they know me you know slightly less than my core organizational group are going to give me the benefit of the doubt. It's like assuming positive intent to assume positive intent. It's like two positive intents removed and also there's a little bit of like who cares?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so maybe there's a little bit of like acceptance and release of it.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah, the letting go piece where you can only control so much, right, why?
Speaker 3:bother thinking about it. Anyway, it's so far out of my control what people think in their own minds and don't even express Like what a silly thing to have take up space in my consciousness. I think yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, thanks for that little unpack snack.
Speaker 3:Thanks, I feel very snackified, that's not a word.
Speaker 2:Snackified, sated, I don't know. No, that wasn't it.
Speaker 1:Jess and Lisa here to brighten your day. Quick chats and laughs. We're on our way. Got the scoop. You didn't expect Unpacked snacks. Short but perfect. Funny tidbits and moments. We share. Stories so light they'll float in the air, tune in fast as the bite-sized flare. Unpacked snacks we're always prepared.
