Jessica Lynch Rescue: All Intel Pointed To Chemical Attacks & The Whole City To Attack Us!

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Seth Ryan (OldRangerNewDad podcast) and Mike Burke ( his podcast is:  @LegendsOfThe75th ) delve into their experiences surrounding the Jessica Lynch mission during the Iraq War. They share personal perspectives about the invasion, communication challenges, and the ROE's (rules of engagement) that shaped the combat. The discussion also covers their training for the invasion, the intel briefings they received, and the preparations leading up to the mission to rescue Jessica Lynch. 

Throughout the conversation, themes of camaraderie, chaos, and the realities of military life are explored, providing listeners with a deeper understanding of the complexities faced by Special Operation Rangers of the 75th RGR RGT in combat. In this conversation, Seth and Mike recount their experiences during the Jessica Lynch mission, detailing the challenges faced during their arrival, the landing, and the subsequent recovery efforts. They share vivid memories of navigating through a war-torn city, the emotional weight of this mission, and how it shaped the modern day Ranger Regiment. 

The discussion highlights the sacrifices made, the unexpected realities of combat, and the importance of bringing fallen soldiers home. Their reflections provide insight into the complexities of military operations and the personal impact of their experiences.

Transcript

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Hey guys, I just wanted to do a very quick intro for my guest this week, which is Mike Burke. He's a professional podcaster and has the podcast, Legends of the 75th. And that is on, of course, every platform. And he does a very high quality show interviewing various people who served in the 75th Ranger Regiment and several Hall of Famers and things like that. If you would, go over to his page, take a look. I'm going to have the links below and then we're just going to jump right into our story today. Mike, awesome to have you brother. I've been really excited about having this conversation dude, how long have I known you? And I had no idea that you were on the, on the Jessica Lynch mission and I was Bravo company 1/75 We were the main elements. We ended up going inside the hospital. ah one quick thing. I've been listening to you on uh David Hookstead stead and the tank incident. and all of that and dude, some, some great stories you have there, but if we can just zero in on and kind of re recount everything that you remember of the Jessica Lynch mission, when you described jumping out and once you guys were landing on was a different, was a different experience from what I did. so I just want to jump into it real quick, because I'm not Jason Bourne. However, I felt like it when I got to tell my dad. that I was leaving for deployment, right? We weren't, I assume you guys weren't allowed to tell anybody you were deploying either. Right? Right. So as the Jason Bourns, we are as a PFC in Ranger regiment. I told my dad that if we're on a call and I ever say that I had been popping wheelies on my motorcycle, that that was code for I'm about to deploy. And so I'm sure that they had no idea while listening to my phones, cause our phones were definitely tapped and there was. Well, I actually got a story about one. Yeah. yeah, dude. Jump in and share it. Cause I know a couple guys who got kicked out of the regiment because they had told their parent and then their parent got onto a email chain for the whole company and send it out. Everybody pray for my son. God bless him. He is deploying to the middle East. He is in first Ranger battalion. yeah, what's your story? What happened So it wasn't, it wasn't in my platoon. I'll just say it was an individual leader in another platoon, but basically, and the only reason I got like all the details is cause I overheard the conversation. I'll explain that in a second, he got on the phone when we, you know, you remember when we deployed at Arar airport I mean, we went like 6 weeks without showers. You we were nasty. It was so gross. I remember when they put in the showers because it was this like within the same day they put in that phone tent and it was actually over by your guys's compound, by the edge of the compound. they had a recording of him saying was talking to his dad and he's like, Hey, dad, You know, I don't know if you're watching the news, but if you saw anything on the news, that was me and my boys. We had a bunch of explosives and we breached this wall and we did this. This I mean like in he I don't want to say he provided like all the details, but enough that it was cringy. I was sitting in my tent. You know we didn't have any air conditioning or sitting in the tent trying to escape the heat of the day and. he was sitting like right outside my tent because his tent was the next row over, but he just was backed up against the wall. And I was just laying in my cot and I could basically hear everything. And I guess the platoon- sergeant the 1st Sergeant and I'm not sure who else walked up and they're like, Hey, here's what we heard. You know, do you have anything to say about this? And he's like, I didn't do that. And they literally like pulled out something and they played it for it. And you know, you could hear him just go f*ck, you know, and he's like, Yeah, okay, I said that they're like, dude, what the f*ck? Why would you you know better? Like you're, you know, you're a leader within the, you know, the element I don't know if they actually sent it back. I don't recall. I don't remember if they did. But I do remember, like, it's spreading like wildfire through like, hey, they are definitely monitoring the phones, like, Don't be saying stupid sh*t. So That is funny. That's funny, man. loved I loved how you had like code words too because I've had code words with like my family and my wife and stuff like that. Like I literally one deployment I told my wife I pulled out a map. It was actually in Afghanistan. I pulled out a map and I said hey if I'm here this is this is Miami. If I'm here you know this is Bellevue you know and everything else because I knew I was going to be traveling a lot that deployment should be like. And so she said she was like at home like OK he's up here. Yeah. Well, and that's something that most people didn't understand Of task force that have been on Wikipedia. I remember being in law enforcement and somebody sent me a Wikipedia page. And it had everything had all the colors. It had everybody listed. And it's public knowledge. It's been there ever since. I've checked year after year and it's always been there. And they've never taken it down or anything like that. Yet I've had buddies who sent an email to other buddies and they use their call sign in their email. And then those emails were taken out of their computer and erased. They were magically disappeared and just like long after being out of the military, decades after out, still, those call signs are still secret, yet all that information is completely public knowledge now, you know, two privates that they were like really close. They were buddies. They'd been buddies since like grade school. So what they did was so they could communicate about what they were doing. They had an email account set up and so that it wouldn't get intercepted, know, because emails get flagged, you know, based off of words you use They would write the email and keep it in drafts. Then the buddy would get on, log on to the email and he could look in the drafts. and he could reply, you know, he could write out his response back and everything else and they kept it in drafts. I don't remember how they I think he left himself logged onto the computer. That's how it got found out or something like that. don't remember Yeah. So, so you were, mentioned, Arar airport, which 'Arar' I'll never forget that. Uh, you guys were already there, and you guys came in and helped set up all the tents. my platoon got assigned to a 'A' Company because the whole company for our 'C' Co. got deployed and then a company from Alpha Company got deployed. So they had four platoons in Afghanistan. they were trying to make out from the for the first deployment that we did the 'B' Co all went and then 'A' Co came over and then I don't even know if see a 'C' Co maybe came over for like a couple weeks or something like that. So they were trying to like make up for it for that. Gotcha. And so anyway, 'C' Company went to Afghanistan and then A Co was the main that going to be the main effort, but they wanted 3 platoons, so they assigned my platoon to A Co So Ted Kennedy was the 1st Sgt at the time And, know, just like you, you know, we weren't told much. But we expected like we were going to be flying in and like immediately getting this sh*t. We show up and it's just I mean, it is a. a nice runway, very nice runway, very nice airstrip but there's nothing. And for the next four weeks, all we did was set up tents. We literally were starting to have competitions about setting up tents. We pretty much built that entire tent city. I don't want to say it all, but we built a lot of it. Man, I heard the horror stories when we arrived from guys that had already been there and I don't know, you know, who all that was. It was just because we're all wearing Velcro and we don't know. We know who the Rangers are because we have the Ranger haircuts and obviously, you know, the seals are all wearing the same blue t-shirt. Come on guys. You're not, that's not very creative and everybody, everybody, and they got big. I know. have wore like, we should have red t-shirts. should have had red t-shirts. And they had big, huge lumberjack beards, but they were like five foot two and five foot like four. And so there's all these little dudes that were, that were for whatever reason, the DevGru guys that were there when we first got there. I know because we went to go get food because they would just drop pallets of MREs. Everybody would go grab all the good MREs. They cut open MREs and take the good stuff out. everybody's already at each other's throats within the first like two weeks were there. It was like baby powder. The best way to describe that, that area is it's not like Iraq. It's not like Afghanistan that the dirt, everything that you're stepping on was baby. When you stepped a cloud of dust came up. So you literally tried to step lightly as you were walking to create the least amount of dust. And I bring that up because the dust storm. which is one of the things that my family remembers most about the news and how much they covered that. I remember that very, very well tent, I was in the tent with a Platoon Leader (Officer) and platoon sergeant cause I was Bravo company, Forward Observer I am living in there with all the, these higher ups. And so of course, anything trash, any sweeping, that's me. Yeah. Yeah. dude who's always going to be cleaning the tent. Might as well have a maid outfit with me. And so the whole time that the sandstorms going on, they're having me sweep. And so I'm sitting there trying to sand out, which is just ridiculous because the more I sweep, the more it comes in because just even having it open. ah I will say that that was one advantage we had being there so early. Our tent, like we hooked our tent up. had we had a floor, we had a liner, we'd put sandbags, like, you know, so we'd, we'd hooked it up. Yeah. Well, you know, when you're the first, there's advantages to being first. That was the only advantage, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. So you, the very first mission that you were training up for was what? Do you remember that you guys were training up for a different mission in the invasion? Yeah, so during the invasion our primary mission was going to be actually the jump into"BIAP" (Baghdad International Airport) So that's what we were training up for primarily I don't quite remember. I know we'd practiced like pre -jump stuff and I don't want to say we'd rigged, but like that's what we were primarily preparing for. And then anytime anybody went across the berm, my platoon was a QRF (Quick Reaction Force). We never we went one time. I believe. When I can't remember, I don't know if it was 'The Unit' aka 'Delta Force' or not. If it was the British SAS guys, we lifted off. We went across, we landed You know, I think somebody got hurt or something and we were going to go in and get him. But then we did. We ended up not. They ended up doing something else. So but yeah, that's really what we were primarily training for. We were monitoring 3rd Infantry Division progress They made it across and they made it to Baghdad. They started the seizure of the airfield (BIAP) and secured the airfield. Yeah, we helo'd in to Baghdad International Airport and then, you know, start running operations out of there. Interesting. Yeah. So, so we didn't do that. we were training up for the, BIAP jump and we trained for that I mean, all day, every day, that's all we did. We sat out there with the, tape and taped off how we're going to do entries. our ROE's was our Rules Of Engagement is we can shoot them if... right. That's what rules of engagement are. When can you shoot at them? The rule was if they're wearing boots, they're definitely a combatant because nobody in the airport and any of the surrounding buildings is going to be wearing military style boots. So that's definitely somebody leading you to a trap or death. And the second one that I'll always remember is if someone tries to help you, And it was like, wait, what? And they're like, yeah, if somebody comes up to you and is like, hey, hey, come over here. try to help us. That's an automatic look at their shoes because those dudes are going to be wearing boots. And this again was the Intel that we'd been given, which was there's going to be people that are being that are going to be there that are going to try to have rooms booby trapped because they know we're coming and they're going to try to have things set up that are booby traps and they're going to try to lead us into that. And so they're they might be wearing medical scrubs, but they're going to be wearing boots. So if they're if if they try to help you, immediately look at their feet. But if they try to help you, your very first key is look at their boots. If they're wearing boots, shoot them. No, we didn't. We didn't get that. We just got, mean, obviously, you know, the, they're shooting at you, obviously, but yeah, the boots, that's all we got. We didn't get the whole help thing. That's funny. That's funny. So to me, was like, okay, I guess that's this is combat. All right, we're just. Right. unfortunately. Right. I don't know. Boots he's got. He's got boots on. yeah. Yeah, it is. That was the Wild Wild West. Yeah, that's funny to look at. Well, you know, that's, that's how I describe the invasion of the, you know, Iraq. It was the wild wild west. mean, I'm not just talking about like, you know, killing people. That's not what I'm talking about. Like, I mean, it was just f*cking bonkers. Do remember when they put in the chow hall and down the debt down the street, there was there ended up being a chow hall, some army chow hall. wasn't very good food. I didn't go very often because it was just so terrible. we had all these vehicles because there's vehicles all over the airfield. There's vehicles that we just like acquired or people gave us vehicles to, know, all this different kind of stuff. But every time you went to the chow hall, you would always end up driving a different vehicle back. And the goal was to upgrade your vehicle because they were all hot wired. you'd drive something and then you'd come back and your vehicle would be gone or you'd see a nicer vehicle and be like, oh f*ck, I'm gonna take that one. Yep, so it was definitely the wild wild west. That's funny. That's funny you mentioned that because, I had never been through, like they never taught me how to do hot wiring, but I remember some of our guys from Charlie company went to South Africa to train with the South African, paratroopers or And so they got to jump and they got their jump wings. And while they were there, they taught them all the hot wire. Nice. they were just like, we're just going to teach a class. Right. And so they taught multiple classes, but the one that everybody remembers and cared about was the hot wire class. And then they broke for lunch and everybody went out and they're like, where, where did everybody go? And then they just see tractors driving by. Here's a bulldozer coming this way. Like they just went immediately and started jumping into cars and breaking into things and hot wiring everything to practice what they had just learned. I love it. chaos because they were there, not allowed to be arrested. the police are being called because all these vehicles are being stolen, but they're really just hopping in it and literally driving through the parking lots and driving around. They're not taking them anywhere. They don't even know where to go. and you know, what's really funny about that is like, I don't know about modern, like heavy equipment, but like old school heavy, heavy equipment stuff like bulldozer and is so easy to hotwire that Oh, my gosh, like, you know, I mean, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. yeah. getting back to the Jessica Lynch mission, so the BIAP mission ends up getting canked(cancelled). So we end up not doing it now. We actually did load the plane and taxi the runway. And I don't know if that was just like a psychological test to see if we would all go and do it because also the, the recce guys from Delta were like letting it be known like, guys, we're getting word from our recce brothers that are actually like the dudes that are on the inside, um, already in Baghdad living that life They knew we were coming. As we said, everybody knows that everybody knows we have to take Baghdad International Airport. And they had told us as Rangers, like on the down low, they were like, hey, just so you guys know, the whole airfield has barrels of oil stacked everywhere and they have like nets over it. So you can't see it when you're flying over, but it's there. And they've got bulldozers everywhere. And what they're going to do is whenever you guys are coming, they're going to take bulldozers, they're going to start tearing up the runway in multiple sections, and they're going to just bulldoze sections of the dirt and dump that oil into it and light it on fire. So your nods are not going to be useful and you're going to jump into a fiery death. And we're like, yay. So we're training every day to die in a suicide mission. That was the backdrop of what we all know is what their plan is to to stop us. And of course they had RPGs and all kinds of stuff that they were boxes of RPGs and everything already staged all there in that area that they were just going to shoot us out of the sky. And we're going to jump old school. Like just jump out at, I think they said 400 feet, right? Is the bare minimum. So you jump out, parachute opens, you hit the ground. Like there is no, you don't even have a secondary parachute. So that was the plan. it's cool to hear the other you know other Intel that was briefed because what we were told was the runway we didn't hear about... you know the runway getting broken up, we had heard about that the oil, I don't remember that one. I mean maybe it was but I definitely don't remember that one. Maybe I blocked it because it was like that sounds scary. um You know but the other thing that we were told was because of the AAA (Anti-Aircraft Artillery) threat the expectation was. On infill, they would lose at least one C-17 (carries up to 100 Rangers), if not two C-17s and a company (approx. 150 Rangers) worth of Rangers upon infill. That's what we were told. And we're like, f*ck, that's a lot of people. Yeah. And what were you guys told? What following missions you were going to be doing? Yeah, actually, I think we were given the deck of cards before. So I knew we knew we were going to be hunting BATH members and obviously the Republican guard. we knew we did. Yeah, that if I remember, recall right. And anybody that remembers accurately, feel free to call me out. But yeah, I mean, you you get it a little blurred after, you know, Yeah. A couple of decades, uh, passed, but, so we were, we had the deck of cards as well, but we were told specifically that we were going to be going from one of Saddam's palaces to the next. So we were going to land a BIAP and then from there, the closest one, one company's going to the next company's going to the next closest, the next closest. I was good friends with, with our medic, our doc, we're going to be doing continuous combat operations for 72 straight hours. So we were going to be stacked with, cliff bars, specifically cliff bars and, and then, and the speed and the medic would dole that out as he deemed was needed. But yeah, we weren't expecting to sleep for the first 3 days, just continuous combat. We're like, Okay, I guess we're going to like you guys, right? Just like the Jessica Lynch mission, we're packing so much ammo and just everything we can think of way more than you actually need. But again, you don't know that, right? um Yeah. And they said, you know, we were expected to hotwire vehicles, but we needed to inspect underneath them because they knew we'd be hotwiring vehicles. Intel had been that they were taking grenades. strapping them underneath with a pin, wrap it around, wrap something around the axle. So as you drive, you pull your own pin, it blows you up as you're driving. So that was, yeah, that was one of the Intel that they had already been booby trapping, trucks that you'd want to take that are in the parking lot. And everybody knows to leave it alone and wait for the Americans to come take it. we finally get the word that we're going on a mission and we get the word that it is going to be full MOPP gear. So we get all of our MOPP gear out and we make sure everybody's putting on their MOPP gear, making sure everything's good. Your, gas, mass fits everything, right? You had already done that 50 times before you deployed, but now you're going to be wearing it on an operation. you guys were. Dressed in the same or no? I don't know if you guys were in full MOPP gear. we'd already done a couple things in full MOPP Gear. That wasn't the first one, but yeah, that was definitely the most miserable one. Yeah, we'd already spent a lot of time in MOPP gear by that point, so it was pretty f*cking miserable. Yeah, we had just been practicing, but we hadn't been necessarily practicing to take over BIAP in MOPP gear. We were expecting there to just, you know, regular combat, but we definitely had to have our MOPP gear with us, which we're just like, this is a pain. And then on the Jessica Lynch mission, they're like, they didn't tell us what, obviously what mission we were going on. Because again, just like we had talked initially idiots get on the phone and say something. And it's usually always a ranger private ranger PFC who just got to the unit. Okay. Now we're going to go say something and make ourselves sound cool back home. funny about that is is that they told us before they were going and they shut down the phone to. Yeah, so yeah. a, that's a clue. You're about to do something important. They shut down the phone tent. So, yeah. So we, we don't know exactly what we're going on and maybe it just at my level, I didn't and other guys did. I had come from the Marine Corps. I was a E 3 there, which was not the same as E 3 in the army. Lance corporal, you're somebody who's tasked on a daily basis. with getting things done and then you have guys help you do it. you're really a team leader at that level. And then I go back to being a PFC where I'm too stupid to know anything or do, you know, hold any responsibility. So I probably got very little information compared to some of the guys that were on the operation with me, but I just remember getting almost no information before we fly out So where the planes, Iraqi planes were in these concrete bunkers and then we dropped the bombs on them during Desert Storm and blew all their planes up. Well, those big holes are still blown through these and it's just this empty lot of some concrete uh shade and but the sky is wide open, so you're still getting baked in the sun regardless. And that really kind of works as a little bit of an oven. We kind of learned, especially in MOPP gear. So it really was nicer to actually sit outside of it and try to create your own shade. So we weren't allowed to take any photographs. I assume you guys weren't back then either. Yeah. Well, we did take one photo, platoon photo, and I have it before. Yep. Right before we went on. Yeah, I'll send it to you. we're staging now we're there and we're staged and we're getting, we're waiting for nightfall, whatever, the first night. And I believe it was the second night was when we actually went. So I think we were there for two, two nights. Yeah. And. And that's when that was when I actually, for the first time met Pat Tillman. So he was on, did you, cause you were 2nd battalion. I don't, I don't remember which company was he. He was A Company or. Where was he there when you guys were there? Okay. So again, for, for us from 1st Batt guys, you know, he was kind of obviously everybody's, you know, idol, like, holy crap, this dude is somebody I used to watch and love watching. in the NFL and now he's one of us and he's down here doing the same stuff we're doing. So I had to act cool and literally my interaction with him, which is embarrassing, but I literally am walking by and he goes, Hey man, do you know where the bathroom is? I was like, yeah, it's over there. And then I play it cool and walk away. And that's when I realized that was, that was Tillman. was like dusk. So was kind of dark. ah That was it. That was my interaction. That was my one claim to fame for. But again, I think for most of us, which, you know, that's his bracelet I'm wearing today, like, it was just the idea of somebody, you know, who had the ability to not be doing what we're doing and to give that up, right? So was kind of an ideal of Pat Tillman, even if you didn't know him, you know, that was just something you definitely respected a lot. But yeah, so that was my one interaction with him. And years later, a couple years later, we go to Ranger Rendezvous and we're all... playing football against each other. And it was actually Bravo company that we ended up winning the whole thing. And ended up the champions because Pat Tillman didn't play like there's always an asterisk. He specifically refused to play on the football team because he knew we were he was going to definitely win. So I'm sure his guys weren't happy about that, but we were stoked. So I did. I got to see him a little bit. we actually had quite a few NFL players up at 2/75. Yeah, Keeley King, Dan Hopkins. Keeley King was a running back for the 49ers. And then Dan Hopkins was a defensive line for the Dolphins, actually. So So yeah, we won a lot of football totables up at 2/75. And we had actually on the officer side, the only year that we almost didn't win was Chad Jenkins, officer Platoon Leader (Officer. He was the quarterback for West Point for 3 years. Yeah, and he was f*cking good. He was good. He's one of my best friends now. I love that dude. But yeah, Yep. so there we are. We're just kind of hanging out. honestly, you know, they're just kind of telling us it's, we, we don't know what you're going to expect, but we're, just going to have to be prepared for whatever. So we're going to wear MOPP gear when we get on the ground, you know, that, that call is going to be made there, but. until further notice, we're going to be wearing MOPP gear expecting to take, you know, some type of chemical agents in an attack and the hospital where she's being held. And I'll never forget this where we were at. They, did the calculations and they're like, we, we're exactly 9.1 miles to the hospital from where we're sitting right now. So when we went to go to pee, right? Whenever we went to the bathroom, they just had like a whole dug. And I think that was actually from. a bomb dropping and hitting the ground. And so it's obviously disgusting. Everybody's been using it, but they, so some guys would try to walk past it and that like, there's a little bit of a berm. And a couple of times dudes got freaked out on because they're like, Hey idiot, like somebody from the town, it's nine miles away. They could come over here and be sniping you. And of course we can't see any, it's just this big flat kind of space. But I remember that. them just being like, we're not in a safe area. This is not Arar anymore. And I was just like, okay, next level ramp it up a little bit more. This is combat again. Okay. That's right. We're in combat. haven't got shot at yet. I haven't done anything yet, but you know, it's. First deployment. Yep. were what rank were you at that point? How many deployments do you have? was a team leader, and this was my... Okay. Cause you'd been to Afghanistan previously. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. and, that's something that other people don't know, especially with the task force, because sometimes we were in Iraq and then somebody is in Afghanistan and they would fly us to Afghanistan. So it wasn't a, you're in Iraq for this deployment. Sometimes we would go from Iraq to Afghanistan to other countries that we were never in all that fun stuff. So we moved wherever the worst of the worst were. And that's what we went after. So this was being my very first combat mission. We had the Air Force TACP _ We went up and actually got on top of, this is the only picture that I have, and I'll have to send you a copy of it But I'll always remember that picture because again, we weren't allowed to be photographed. And so it was the Air Force guy who has a camera and takes a picture. We're all in our MOPP gear or least our suspenders. got our pants on and the air force guys are in, you know, little tiny, you know, the workout booty shorts, and just chilling, you know, while we're wearing, still wearing our MOPP gear. But I just remember that's always because again, I hadn't experienced combat and now we're going to go get this girl, but there's an entire military barracks and this unfortunately is left out of this, scene, but. to give everybody a picture. you got a wall that was, I believe it was like eight foot cinder block concrete wall that went the entire, went all the way around the entire hospital. And again, as not like what's depicted in comics, the hospital was, it was modern, but it wasn't beautiful. And the military barracks is, was right behind it kind of wrapping around in the courtyard. And that was, if I remember correctly, it was somewhere between 500 to a 1,000 members could be in those barracks. that's the size of the element, And so we were expecting to land, we were going to walk in one click so that way they wouldn't hear us coming necessarily, even though they knew we were coming, obviously. were taking, know, 46 is 47 Chinooks. 46 is the adaptation to the Chinook. Yeah, so they can land on aircraft carriers. Yep. And so we, we land a click away. And so that I just remember, I think I was on the third relay of guys coming in and I was with the doc. our medic and he had lit, they had literally just experimental had went to Bass Pro Shop and got like something you could carry big game with. when you went hunting and it was like this bit, it was big, huge wheels, but it was like tires for a bicycle, like a big tires. and then it was like, it was kind of an L shaped like gurney thing. And on it, we had two AT4's strapped to it. we had a lot of medical things all on the, on the actual handles of it. I forget what all ammo or other things that we had in addition strapped to this thing. And so it really took more than one person to carry it. And they draw the when they drop us off, they come pick us up. I go to get in, which I'll always I'll always remember this. go to get in and I'm walking in and there's already a dude that's in there. Why is there a dude in there? It should be empty. We're trying to do combat here. What's happening? And this guy's wearing. a camera on his face, a big camera. And I'm like, and I literally looked to one of our guys. I don't remember which one it was, but I was just like, who is this dude and why is he here? And he was just kind of standing there, just camera. So obviously that footage that we all see that was declassified came from somewhere. But I don't know why this guy was just taking every trip. Or if this was his first time, I don't know if he just magically appeared in the helicopter that at that moment. And then I go load in, but I had never seen him before. And he's in this on our third trip over to drop us off. So he's in, we go ahead and get out and he stays in. He didn't even get out. At least when we got out, we go out off and it was just normal. We dropped the ramp down, we go off and it's sand. And then there's a big berm to get up. And so I helped doc. grab a hold of that and, and help get that up to the top. And when I get up to the top, now I can actually see, and Chinooks took off. And I don't remember if they were going to get a fourth group but we're already in a line. Everybody's already moving toward the hospital, I can clearly see it's one click away. So it's not that far. And it was like this big wide road with like rice patties on the sides. Mm-hmm. some type of mud or, know, that's what it reminded me of because I lived in California around rice patties in Northern California. And that's what it reminded me of. Like these just kind of big things with just mud or something, but it was too dark and we had monoculars. So it wasn't, you know, beautiful, but I will always remember when I got to the top of this berm and we're, and we're in Ranger file lines on both sides going, I had never been to a music concert to that point in my life. However, I had always heard of Pink Floyd's laser light show. And this was the closest thing I could imagine to that. Everybody had their PQ2 on and it was everywhere in the sky. Not like they're just flailing around, but it was like everybody's moving and searching and looking. And so there's just lasers all the way down. And now I can see how many dudes are here because again, as I said, I know I'm Bravo. But I know that there's second battalion guys, there's third battalion guys, there's SEALs here somewhere, right? There's all kinds of other moving parts to this. So when you land, if you would just kind of walk us through where you landed in reference to the hospital and kind of what it looked like for you. So I don't remember the orientation of it. I want to say it was to the south of the city itself. And 'B' Company our primary mission was the cordon of the hospital. So we were basically supposed to move and kind of wagon wheel formation almost kind of around the hospital and set up perimeter and take over the buildings, get to the, you know, the high vantage points So that You guys could come in. The seals could come in, you know, because there was also ground element for 1/75 convoy element as well. So when we landed, It probably about a click. I don't really remember, but when we landed, I just remember that the aircraft kind of landed and you you could see out the back of the ramp. And then it kind of went down a little bit further. And then it went down a little bit further. And you're like, what the f*ck? You know, like, felt like we landed and then it and then it stopped. And then they went to go put the ramp down and it did go down very far. We're like, f*ck. So we're like, OK, I guess, you know, we're getting off. So, you know, we like to scramble up the ramp and we, you know, like pretty much throw ourselves off. Luckily, it wasn't very far of a drop. And it was a really soft landing. You're like, what the h*ll? Like, what am I landing on? You know, because we expect the same thing, you know, and I. This is one of my first time landing in a helicopter in combat. So, you know, you're expecting sand or gravel or whatever and, maybe even a field at least, but it was very different. And then, you know, kind of fighting to get on your feet and everything else and kind of get oriented. And then you realize I'm like, this is trash. Like this is garbage. You know, this is, you know, all kinds of different stuff and it stinks. It's just absolutely horrid smelling. And so basically like kind of swimming almost, you know, like trying to fight through this trash. That's like up to, you know, freaking your waist, like trying to pile out of this. We landed in a landfill. And so, you know, we're in full MOPP, full MOPP gear, you know, rubber boots on the back, you know, freaking, you know, P mask on the hip, everything, you know, gloves in your pocket, all this different kind of stuff. And finally get out of there and we're just like poor or smoked, you know, so get out of landfill, you know, orient ourselves and like, okay, there's the hospital because I do remember you could kind of see where the hospital was. There wasn't like a light on it, but I want to say it was the tallest building. There was a lot of tall buildings, but it was like the most predominant and it looked like a hospital to like actually look like a hospital. So we're like, okay, that's where we need to go. So then, you know, we start moving through the streets. And so Nasiriyah right Nasiriyah? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the power had been shut off there. Come to find out. And all services been shut off there for over a year. Because they've done something I don't remember what it was, but Saddam Hussein basically cut them off, cut them off of water, electricity, trash services, all this different kind of stuff, cut off the city for a long time. And as soon as we started moving through And you know, trying to get through to where we needed to go, Quite frankly, it was a sh*t show. And the reason it was a sh*t show because every ditch, every time you stepped off the road, any time you stepped where human traffic would not normally go, you work in mud or sh*t. And there's multiple stories of dudes like literally. septic tanks and stuff like that are like major ditches because you know, yeah, we have the monocular. If I remember right, it was kind of a dark night to, you know, falling in, you know, and dudes having to grab them and everything else and then coming out and they're just covered in human feces like covered. All of us were it was through a landfill. Now through human feces. And I just remember by the time we got to the building, all of us were like, f*ck this. Like, this is not what I signed up for like what in the h*ll man. the rest of the company apparently didn't all land in the landfill and they were smart enough to not get off the road. I won't say who the squad leader is that was on point that night, but you know, he definitely wasn't the best land nav expert him and his team leader. So they took us like this wonky route. And I remember the squad leader at the time, I was like, you know, after like the 2nd guy, you know, my 'SAW' gunner Chris Pritchard, like, you know, he fricking fell into a sh*t ditch. Like Mark, we just got to stay on the road, dude. He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm like, we're not following. Like we know where we're going. We know where we're oriented. Like let's just stay on the road. So we did some of those other squads didn't. And man, it was, they, they really, really did pay for it. We got to the building and had like this. So I knew where we needed to go and everything else. was a point team leader. I was alpha team leader and. They had like this chain around it and I remember I'm like Mark. I'm gonna blow it. He's like OK cool so it was like down this really really like tight alleyway right? And so I put the charge in between the the chain and everything else. Pull off the lead and I'm like hey I'm a pop this. This is like I think it was a 3 second time delay. It might have been a 6 second I don't I don't quite remember. I'm like, I'm a pop this and then we're just going to run, you know, because it's real tight. We don't want to be, we don't want to be right next to it. And he's like, okay. So, you know, he's up there, you know, pulling security with me. So I pop it. And the way I tell the story is because, you know, I love to give Mark sh*t is he sabotaged me because I think he wanted to get a good laugh. There was a barrel and he says that like his P mask hit it and tipped it over. I personally think that he tipped it over on purpose. So anyway, So we're trying to run out of this like tight little frickin alleyway. and this barrel falls over and before I could react, I frickin trip over it and I go A$$ over frickin tea kettle. And then the charge goes off and now I'm trying to get like back on my feet. And it's funny because we we clear the building, the building was empty. And then we realized, okay, hey, we don't actually have a good good vantage point. So then we went into the next you know, we went into the next building and it's funny as sh*t because we bust into that one. And I think we busted through like the cupola or something like that. And we went downstairs and there was a family in there. Like there's this dude in there. And, know, so my team, you know, my team's behind me and we bust into this, this room. And I just remember, you know, like I'm scanning, looking, you know, looking, okay, it's all this dude's family and everything else. And then I look and there's just lights on his feet. And you know, cause my saw gunner and my, you know, my two or 3 gunner, they're just looking at his feet. Cause the ROE was if they have boots, you kill them. And I'm like, Hey, like first look to see if there's a weapon. That's what you want to look through first. You know? So, but anyway, you know, so then we, get up to that, get up to the rooftop and you know, um, it was, know, pretty anticlimactic for, Bravo company. Um, after that, to be honest with you, we, you know, we just sat on 'BP' (Blocking Position) but there was a ton of buildup, you know, and that that episode that I did that you've referenced a few times, you know, some do you know, some people have said, that's not true. Like, you know, all this different kind of stuff. I'm not saying it is true, but the Intel we got the Intel we were told was that this city had been so fortified, had so many, you know, Iraqi Republican guards and military units and, you know, tanks and all this different kind of sh*t that the Marines had actually gotten pushed out of the city. and they were in an outer cordon. Again, I'm not saying that's actually what happened. I'm just telling you that's what we were told. So we were told you're going to fight your way to your 'BP' Blocking Position is going to be a movement to contact building to building to building and you're going to be fighting. So that's what we were prepared for after this g*ddam, you know, trunch through the frickin landfill and frickin sh*t ditches and everything else. And, know, You know, I told my mom I wouldn't die covered in sh*t. So now I'm like all pi**ed off that I think I'm gonna freaking get smacked and you know, my remains are gonna be covered in human feces. So I'm pi**ed you know, but anyway. yeah. So, but I mean, after that, you know, we, ended up moving and we ended up collapsing a couple different times and moving around and everything else, you know, because, you know, we get reports that, there might be people in here and stuff like that. So after we'd kind of set up security, but again, Yeah, I think there was like one shot fired and it some dude that came out on his roof and his AK and he got smoked. You know he's wrong place wrong time. But you know other than that it was pretty benign. You know for Bravo Company you know we saw the helicopter come in with the DevGru-SEALs you know but you know 1/75 they're the ones you know that you know set up the perimeter. around the hospital itself and kind of had the events that happened there. And then obviously the bodies in the soccer field, they're the ones that did all that stuff. So the biggest thing that happened to us was we, I had this squad leader again, another squad leader, another platoon, was the same one that was a point one. They lost a bandolier of 203s. So we had to literally do this online thing trying to find this bandolier of 203-Grenades Yeah. oh the most impactful thing that happened for 2/75 Nice. Well, I can somewhat relate, not fully, because they didn't drop us into the landfill. But so whenever I went over, of course, where you guys were allowed to bring your own knives, right? Right. So of course, the regular military, though, that's not necessarily the case. So I still have the knife from that mission and I still have some of the mud that I laid down in. I just went ahead and kept it. And I cut the smiley face off of it, but I put a sticker on here that says smile. God loves you. And this was my knife for whenever I went over and it has the pen, the retention pin. So when you push it, then you can still jump with it. And that's why I have it set up the way I do. And it still has my 'B' Company fists. If you find this knife, it's mine. But I have this knife for that reason. And I never got to use it, of course, but. Yeah, that was that was my big claim to fame. I'm wearing this thing and we get up to the hospital. I kind of describe for you. We're walking down the road now before my chalk landed or somewhere in there. Some of the guys had had mentioned that while they were walking, a couple dudes came out from the city, from that area, at least not from the hospital, but from the city area with a case and they wanted to meet Allah and they got to meet him. So a couple of our. machine gunners 240s and saws just obliterated them. And so that was the only interaction. I think they said there was only two guys that got smoked there. so when I get there, We're just kind of all walking. Now I remember S.O.A.R. Special Operations Aviation Regiment guys right.. So our little- birds are flying overhead and I remember them having the InfraRed spotlight. on the hospital, like they, as they're doing rounds, they would light it up. So it was obviously the one we're going to. Yep. That's what. Yeah. So, so once they're doing that, but the SEAL-Team 6 haven't landed at this point. So we're, walking in, we get to the outside of the wall. Now the front of to give you an orientation. So think of the city is to the right. The hospital is, is to the left, but The gate is all on this side facing the city naturally so they can drive into it and drive out this way. But it's all completely walled off. There's no entrance as far as I know, all the way around that concrete wall. There might've been on the other sides, but I don't know of it. So our idea is they're probably going to try to, you know, have any ambush thing that they would have would be on that side. So naturally we're going to blow a hole in the side of the wall and go in this way. And then we'll start attacking the buildings from here. So we get our, uh, our 'LARGE Rangers'. So we had one dude who was 6' 6" 300 pounds and he was solid muscle. And yeah. And so he was carrying the C4 explosives the, 240B FULL-Auto 7.62 Machine Gun the, sledgehammer, everything, right? So I remember he goes up him and, uh, platoon sergeant, they go up and they, uh, our team leader, whoever it was with him and they They start stacking the, the explosives. We got fires. We're still control. We're still talking with, them and I, and if I remember correctly, we had AC-130 Specter Gunships for that, but I don't recall because I never, we never saw spooky, but I remember obviously that, that we definitely had the little birds obviously buzzing around. So we're going to blow the side of this. And they said, all right, we're putting pounds of C4 that they're stacking on this wall. And so everybody's got to get down and we didn't know what we're getting down in. So we just get down as we jumped down into the mud. That wasn't mud. And so we start smelling as we're laying in it and we're like, hurry up and blow that. We're laying in poop. We can smell. This is definitely feces. And, then they finally blow it. When they blew it, they hadn't something. I wasn't in charge of the. the fires at that moment. I'm, just, you know, the RTO there going along. I've got my M4 Rifle and I'm going along until somebody needs a call for fire. Aside from that, I'm just, you know, in the stack with them, but I'm hanging out with a Platoon Leader (Officer) and so I'm waiting for this to blow and the little bird goes right over, right as the explosion. And so luckily it didn't get hit, but I'm talking as close as you could possibly get to not getting hit. the sh*t out of them. Yeah. miss and immediately everybody's freaking out. But, you know, again, it's combat. You, you've just got to roll with it and somebody will get chewed out later. especially me and my, FO because like, holy crap, that was, that was a near miss. We can't afford for this to be "Little Bird Down." And so we're, going to go through the hole. it didn't blow a big enough hole. It blew a big chunk. So now we have our Big Rangers. grab the, the sledge-hammers and they start going to town on this wall. And of course their construction isn't great. So it didn't take, but you know, a minute or two to get a huge, massive hole knocked through this thing. We get into the, once we start filing in, everybody starts splitting up and kind of going into what the military barracks is all right there. We're still watching in case that there's some snipers in there, which we expected or something like that. Now, right before we're blowing the hole is when we hear that the DevGru land. We can see the helicopters come in and we can see them land. We're blowing the side of the wall and they've already landed. So now they're supposed to check the, I think it was six stories, if I remember correctly, I think it was a six story hospital, six or seven. Yeah, six or seven stories. And so they're going to land. They're going to start at the top. We're going to come in from the bottom and we'll be searching going up that way. We blow, they land. We're supposed to kind of synchronize this. We kind of do, we get through and by the time we make our way over to the actual hospital building after we'd cleared just a few little buildings, it's obvious they've abandoned it. There's nobody here. We're not getting into the big massive gunfight we thought. We get over to where the front of the hospital was, which wasn't very far. Again, this courtyard isn't that large, but I get over there and take a knee and I'm not in the shot that you see, but I'm there by the front of the hospital. and they're like, take a knee, take a knee. She's coming out. And I'm like, I had already heard on the radio, them go, we, got her, we got her. And I was just like, we just got in here. It's been like two minutes. You cleared a seven story building. in two minutes. That's insanity. That this makes no sense. So you just sprinted through the hospital and now there could possibly still be booby traps is what I'm thinking is PFC, you know, Ranger here. And I'm just like, OK, I don't know what that means. They really have or not. But we're all going to go over here and pull security. So we go over and just get down. We're just pointing out waiting. And sure enough, here comes the Air Force PJ and the SEALs and they go out and actually the, you know, the helicopter's kind of waiting for them. they come up and loader and then they take off. Obviously our heart is just kind of, I mean, amped up and I'm just expecting something to go wrong because again, with the buildup to this and my first combat mission, this is combat and we explosions. There's near misses already laying in poop. and some of the guys had, had jumped down and laid down and this hospital, as you mentioned, they hadn't had trash services and, they don't necessarily have the cleanest practices anyways. They had a pile of human parts that they had just been throwing out onto the ground. And that was the pile that some of the guys laid down in. So it could have been worse, actually. And so, yeah, I just remember. I'll never forget that. And these guys come back and they're like, well, this is what I was laying in. And I was like, yeah, I guess the mud was a little better. so I I was actually there to get to see the bird lift off. And it was, it was such a crazy thing for me to experience Um, but now, now where, where are the others? Right. the interpreter that we have, is trying to get information out of the people in the hospital that are there. A few workers were there and they keep saying the soccer field, the soccer field. And we're just like, okay, what does that mean? Is there a building by the soccer field? So I just remember there was that, this time period where we were just like, okay, they're in the hospital, right? So we need to go back in. And that's when I go back to what I just said, we thought... They just ran down, found Jessica and ran out. And now we've got to go back and clear the whole hospital because there must be the others are here somewhere. And so that's what we didn't know at that moment that, that the, was the only one that survived. And of course the, what we were told was that there was a doctor from the hospital who had walked, you know, nine or 10 miles to get to the Marine checkpoint that said there's a female, her name is, you know, Jessica Lynch. at this hospital and gave the info. And that's all he gave, though he didn't know about any of the others, according to the info, again, PFC, that I was being told at that point. So we didn't know, but we were hopeful that we're going to get others out. And there was at least 3 others that we expected to be with her. finally get the translation to through that, that they're deceased and that they were buried in the soccer field. obviously all of our hearts just sink right now. This is a recovery mission and So what happens is we all start moving over there. My F O, hands me hands off control to fires to me. And he's doing something else with the Platoon Leader (Officer I forget what he was doing. There's a whole sand table inside the hospital that they're taking a look at and they're gathering information, taking pictures and all that kind of stuff because they had left it completely intact. We don't know why, but they did. And it was literally the whole city of all Nasiriyah, all of their main positions and where they had stuff set up, I guess, bridges to blow and that kind of stuff. And we don't know if any of that's real or not, or whatever. and we find out that the, the remains are out here. I was able to go in and just literally take a quick look and see the sand table. and it was massive in scale and it was really well made. It's not as good as, know, Rangers, do the, do in Ranger school, but it was pretty good. So we get out to the soccer field and that's where the. The digging starts by hand because again, we're, we don't come with big shovels getting ready. Like, you know, he's got, we've got sledgehammers and we've got things to break doors in with. Um, so, so a whole lot of just digging with whatever was had, um, I think a couple of guys had some e-tools, uh, you know, and that kind of thing with them, but not all of us, because again, we were all expecting ammo and grenades and the fight of our lives not to be digging slit trenches. What else are you going to be digging? Right. So when, when that digging starts, we're hoping that it's, we're still hoping it's a mistranslation. We still hope that this guy's wrong. We hope this guy's just a jerk. We hope that, that this isn't true. We hope that they're still alive somewhere and there's still some way we could, we can save these people. And then the first body is found. And it's, and it's, it's just kind of one of those deals where, know, you, you know, that they met a very terrible, you know, end and, know, you know, Jessica survived you know, God saved her. She's still alive to this day. but it was, it was very, rough just for us, I think, after the mission to sit and sit with that and just be like, you know, we weren't expecting this. at one point, just forget what I'm, I just lose my mind evidently and just decide dudes are dudes are digging and digging, but guys are getting exhausted. We're still in MOPP gear. And, and finally somebody say, okay, take your MOPP. jackets off. We're fine. Take off the MOPP jackets. Let's do it. And so finally, dudes are doing that because guys are just getting exhausted and sweating and, super bad. It's like literally you're wearing a sauna suit times 3 in while you're trying to actively dig. And so They weren't buried shallow, but They weren't buried very deep at the same time. But but as they were, you know, getting to the bodies and there's another body and there's another body again, because we didn't know how many there would be. You know, the smell of being there, you know, I just, again, I kind of forgot where I was at the moment or lost my brain because I want to help and I'm a dumb private. So of course I can, I can dig, but I start making my way toward and my FO is like grabs a hold of me. You've got fires. If we get attacked, you are the one calling in. What are you doing? He had just walked up and I'm just like, I'm an idiot. Yeah. You know, I'm just, felt like such an idiot at that moment, but the dudes that, that had to, that had to do the digging, you know, there's a reason why they're, know, they're not going on podcasts and they're not necessarily talking about that. And again, I don't have, it's not my place to really share other than just as a. American who did not expect for that to happen and to, you know, see and smell and experience that that's, that was the end of, of these, you know, brave people who, you know, didn't, didn't deserve that. And, and it's really unfortunate, you know, that their vehicle broke down and all the things happened as they did. But I will always be proud that. We were able to get them and bring them home. You I think that's the consolation is, know, Rangers let never leave anyone behind And it didn't matter how long we were going to be there. And I remember it heated conversations between guys digging and guys not digging, you know, who were wearing higher, brass that were, you know, suggesting we need to, you know, we need to do this. We need to do that. And, and. heated discussions in which, you know, people were just like, F off. We're, digging bodies out right now. We don't need to hear you, hear your mouth at this point and, just continuing to do the mission. And you know, that it took a very long time because it was not, these people had been in the ground for a minute and they had been decomposed. So it took a lot longer to dig, cause you have to dig all of them out. You can't just dig a dig onto their arm, and you pull them out. It's not, it's, it's not like that. And, I, I remember the mission. Okay. The mission's done. Now we've essentially, once we've got the bodies out, Jessica's already gone, you know, now it's time to exfil. The exfil is the part that is the least memorable to me because the smells and the sights is what's burned into my brain. And then I just remember. The sun is coming up and we're being dropped off back where we were at the bombed out airplane hanger. And the sun comes up and we made it and these people are back and immediately everybody's getting sprayed down. They found some type of decontamination thing and everybody's getting sprayed down, especially the ones that were digging number first and foremost. Even though we're laying down and poop, that's fine. that these guys, you know, needed, needed cleaned off. And it was surreal because again, first combat mission is that, you know, so it's just like, well, everybody's going to hear about this mission and, know, and at all eyes and the whole world we're we're on Jessica Lynch. Can we get her out? Is she still safe? Can we get her back to her family? And, and we do. And I think that that set a precedence for me that, just in my own mind, because the reason I left the Marines was to make a difference. years later, I ended up running into one of the Marines that I'd been serving with at that time. And I literally got to find out what would have happened had I stayed in my unit in the Marines, and infantry heavy weapons. They went to Djibouti Africa and did gate guard for a year. So. I just want to be a part of something bigger that, that made a difference in the war. And from, seeing the towers, you know, being hit to there and having, you know, at least Jessica be, be rescued and she's alive and, and these bodies being recovered. just, for me, I was on cloud nine personally and You know, no matter how much I got smoked after that didn't matter. and no matter what mission I was going to go on after that, even the missions that were deemed suicide missions, was like, I'm ready to meet God. I've already done what I needed to do here. And, and I come from a very, very religious, strict religious background, which is the reason why you notice I never curse and I never drink alcohol my entire life still haven't. and so I was a weird ranger, obviously. a lot of dudes did not like me because, know, immediately just my face is very offensive to some, also, you know, once you find out that I don't curse and I don't drink, that's an automatic, you know, I want to see you in pain, but, it's, it's, it was an experience that, that I'll never forget specifically that mission because again, you know, it was a mission accomplished for me. know, there's, Bush gets a lot of flack for that mission accomplished. And that sign and that's something he'll always be mocked for. but, that morning, seeing that sunrise and I had made a difference. I don't know for me as a young ranger, very first combat mission, that was, that was a high point. And, and what I've also noticed is my buddies that have died afterwards command Sergeant Major, right? Dudes that have gone on to do amazing things when they pass away. Command Sergeant's Major Barrera's, which was my 1st Sergeant 'B' Co. Gunny Barrera's. He passes away in a firefight as a Command Sergeant's Major in Afghanistan. And what's the writeup in the news stories? Everyone Jessica Lynch mission. That's the one thing that he's remembered for out of all the things that he's done, all the things he's accomplished. same thing with, when my buddy ended up passing away in a, in a parachuting accident, free fall parachuting accident. he was an instructor, you know, guy that was on the Jessica Lynch mission passes away. So to me, it's like, it's, it's going to follow me the rest of my life. And when I die, hopefully an old man, the one thing it won't be my podcast. That won't be anything else I've done. It'll be that I was on that one mission that one time. And that's what the write-up will be passed down for my kids. That's why it was so important for me to just tell that story and just kind of share that I was there, what I saw and what we accomplished. Again, more so everyone else that was there other than me. I felt like I was just a front row seat to the coolest mission on the planet Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, I can't thank you enough, you know, for for sharing that, you know, and it definitely impacted us all. You know, not all of us were in the soccer field or near the soccer field. But, you know, when we talk about, you know, Ranger missions, you know, and the suicide mission, things thrown out a lot, you know, but it's it's not wrong. You know, how it plays out is, you know, always different. But there's still been plenty of missions that I've been on to that, you know, it was It should have went a different way. It quite frankly should have went a different way. You know, but training and perseverance and just sheer violence of action ensure that it didn't go that way, you know, and that's kind of a story of, you know, Ranger Regiment as a whole, but then also, you know, other units also, you know, that were able to do that. but when we talk about, you know, the Jessica Lynch mission in particular, That was the first prisoner of war that was taken in the global war on terrorism. And we unleashed everything and we focused the entire battalion and other units and every asset available in order to rescue her and then also rescue all the bodies from the soccer field. And the reason I highlight that is because that is something that is important to us. And that's not shared. across other militaries, know, other militaries tend to look at people as numbers. And you know, even like Russia doctrine, if you study Russian doctrine, it's all about mathematical equations, you know, this city has 75,000 people at it. So therefore, this is how many bombs we need to drop, this is how much ammo or ordinance we need to shoot at it. And this is how many Russian soldiers we need to throw at this problem. And we will take the city how many Russians we lose in the process is not the point. We captured the city and then that's fine. It doesn't matter if it's 70,000 Russians died, we captured the city and that was a strategic objective. And us as Americans, don't view that. We will throw everything, we will jeopardize copious amounts of life. I don't know how many people were part of that mission, but let's just say all said and done. the amount of Rangers that were on the ground, the SEALs the aircraft and the pilots and everything else, it's probably over a thousand military members there on that target to save one person and to recover some bodies. And there's power in that. And that is the American way. And we got to be a part of that. doesn't matter. It's honestly irrelevant what actually transpired on the objective. We were prepared for it to go very different. And we went in with a mind frame that it was going to be very different. It wasn't a gunfight. It wasn't this rolling gunfight that we ended up having to do. that's really, to be honest with you, irrelevant because we all stepped on the helicopter. We stepped off the helicopter thinking that this is what we're going to be required to do. And we're all willing to do it. Because quite frankly, you didn't have to get on that helicopter. You could said no, you know, given the odds, given everything, you know, obviously your military career would probably have been cut very short, but you get my point. Like we had a choice. We made a choice, you know. And I think I think that's an amazing thing. And that's why things like that missions like that, you know, that we got the fortune to be a part of are so historically important. And then I would also add in to that. There's. One parent got to see their daughter again. And she gets to go and live the life that she gets. We wish the others hadn't died, but the parents, the husbands, the wives, maybe children and everything else, they know what happened. They don't have to be left wondering. Where is this person? Are they still alive? you know, studying on prisoners of war in Vietnam. But there's still belief that some of those prisoners of war that are MIA at this point, that they're still alive. You know, that's how many years ago? 50 over 50 years ago. Can you imagine carrying that burden? You know, and then I read, you know, and we can go to Vietnam. You can go to Vietnam tomorrow. You know, you can go visit Vietnam. Iraq. None of us are going to visit Iraq. You know, like we might not know if we hadn't recovered those bodies. Who knows what would have happened? We might have dropped a bomb on that city and, you know, deleted any evidence that ever could have existed had we not done that. So my point is, It's important that we did that. And yes, a lot of dudes made sacrifices and a lot of people carry that burden of what they had to do that night with them. And it's unfortunate and it sucks. And I know a few of those they're Ranger buddies of mine, but you know, that's what we signed up for. You know, that's what we did. know, it's an honor to sit here and talk about that with you, you know, and I appreciate you sharing that. And, you know, I appreciate you being part of that as well. I appreciate it. you know, one thing that separates the Rangers from, from many other units, obviously, is you can quit any time. And every single day you are reminded in the Ranger regiment, you can quit any time you want. And there will actually was a couple of guys, I think there was like two guys the whole time I was in the. First Battalion that actually quit and their life was not fun after that. And it was really, it was hard to understand why somebody would do that. But then again, like, especially after an event like that, where you know that you got to be not just a part of history, not just because people are going to know about this, not just because that's going to be in the headline when you die, but because like you just said, like, we're bringing our soldiers home to their families. to lay them to rest in America where they belong. And so their families can go to their gravesite and talk to them just like we want to do with our relatives. And these are a bunch of 18, 19 year old kids, you know, and some dudes that are 21, 22 that are team leaders and whatever that are down in this hole digging. Not a single one of them flinched. You know, I, again, I'm right there with them as this is all started. none of the dudes were like guys were being pulled out by other guys that were, they could see that they were exhausted. and guys were helping each other the, level of intensity and the level of dedication that they are to do this mission that they were never expected to, they weren't mentally prepared for, and they're just like, dig, and we've got to do it before the sun comes up by the way, because that whole city is going to come alive and come kill us. If we're still here during the daylight hours. So they're digging as fast as they possibly can. again, I appreciate you being here, you know, and, jumping in on this podcast. I think that it's very powerful to keep sharing this story because Jessica, what she went through and what, what our other soldiers went through and that their lives mattered. And we lost 11. soldiers, know, some died immediately when they got hit with the RPGs. You know, all those names need to be kept alive. And those people, it's not just their families that need to remember the ones that we recovered. It's everyone that needs to remember that. I obviously love your podcast, everything you do, bringing to light the legends of the 75th like these guys that, you know, we all looked up to and served along with one of the guys that was just on not too long ago was the instructor for RIP when I was going through. And so now I've connected with him that I never, I would have always been intimidated to reach out and connect with him, but he was on your, on your podcast and man, Al Pertus, and after you talked with him, I felt like I knew him after the conversation. And, and it's just, it's great because again, it's the like mind of, of these guys that are just willing to do anything at the drop of a hat to, do what the mission is required. you know, to help another soldier doesn't have to be a ranger. You know, they're, they're those types of people. That's what I love most, you know, because Marine Corps ranger, I get it. I always get the same question, but, know, I, obviously I have a love for, for the Marine Corps as a whole and for fellow Marines, know, Rangers is who I went through combat with Rangers are who, who I was galvanized with. And that's, that is the thing that I will always carry with me to the grave. obviously anytime you want to come back, you're always welcome. so appreciate you brother. Thank you for having me on and thank you for what you're doing. Absolutely.