Pressed Into Purpose
"Pressed Into Purpose" explores the transformative journeys of individuals who discovered their calling through life's challenges and triumphs. Each episode features intimate conversations with guests from diverse backgrounds who share how they identified their unique purpose, overcame obstacles in pursuing it, and experienced profound personal transformation as a result.
We dive deep into the pivotal moments, unexpected detours, and guiding principles that shaped our guests' paths. Whether through career shifts, personal crises, spiritual awakenings, or gradual realizations, these stories illuminate the various ways purpose reveals itself.
More than inspirational tales, these conversations offer practical insights for listeners questioning their own direction, feeling stuck, or seeking greater meaning. Join us as we uncover how being "pressed" by life's circumstances often reveals our most authentic purpose and highest potential.
Pressed Into Purpose
The Power of Purpose in Ministry and Marketplace
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Reverend AA Cleveland II shares his remarkable journey from church musician to ministry leader and corporate innovator, revealing how God prepares us for purpose through unexpected paths. His story demonstrates how divine calling intersects with marketplace excellence when we remain open to God's leading.
• Growing up as a gifted musician under his mother's rigorous training
• Reluctantly accepting his call to ministry at age 22-23
• Creating an entirely new product division during lunch breaks at his first corporate job
• Transitioning between roles as musician, minister, and business professional
• Learning the importance of understanding people's unique needs in leadership
• Building a ministry that bridges church, education, and business excellence
• Finding divine purpose even through health challenges and difficult decisions
• Recognizing God's presence in our past, present, and future simultaneously
• Embracing personal growth through mentorship and continual learning
• Understanding that gifts and purpose often require intentional development
If you're enjoying these episodes, please like, share, subscribe, and leave us a comment. We'd love to hear from you!
Thanks for listening!
Until next time, continue to press into your purpose!
You can watch the video and Subscribe on Youtube.com @PressedIntoPurpose or learn more about our host at ValeriaWright.com
Meeting Reverend AA Cleveland
Speaker 1Hello , welcome to another episode of Pressed Into Purpose . I am your host , valeria Wright . Let's meet today's guest .
Speaker 1Reverend AA Cleveland II is a dynamic leader who seamlessly bridges ministry , education and business excellence . As the founder and president of Salt and Light Ministries and the Al Cleveland Leadership Academy , he has dedicated his life to equipping others for marketplace success as ambassadors of Christ . With over 45 years of ministry experience , reverend Cleveland began his calling in 1989 under the late Bishop GE Patterson in Memphis , tennessee , and has served in various leadership roles , including associate pastor at New Life Covenant Southeast Church in Chicago , which serves 30,000 members . He established his itinerant ministry in 2007 , ministering to thousands across America and internationally 2007 , ministering to thousands across america and internationally .
Speaker 1Academically , reverend cleveland holds a bachelor of arts in systematic theology and pastoral care from northern baptist seminary trinity international university and is currently pursuing a master's degree in systematic theology . He founded the al cleveland training in 2014 , emphasizing practical application of biblical scholarship through hermeneutics , homiletics and apologetics . Beyond the pulpit , reverend Cleveland brings over 20 years of professional expertise as president and CEO of Hegemon Consulting LLC , where he specializes in community engagement , large-scale event management and organizational development . His work includes developing parent engagement curriculums for Chicago area school districts and delivering strategic projects that exceed community goals . A devoted family man for 38 years , reverend Cleveland is married to Lori and is the father of three children and grandfather of two . His multifaceted approach combines spiritual calling , educational innovation and business acumen to create lasting impact in communities across the nation . Please help me welcome Reverend AA Cleveland .
Speaker 2Wow , wow , wow , thank you . I sound like I know two or three things , I think you might , I think you might . Wow , it's an honor to be here . Thank you so much for having me . I am so godly proud of what you're doing .
Speaker 1Oh , thank you .
Speaker 2You and your husband . Like I stated earlier , I have known you guys since you were like teenagers .
Speaker 1Facts .
Speaker 2Facts Either you're getting older or I'm that old dude .
Speaker 1Listen , listen . We are all maturing together this is .
Speaker 2This is wonderful , and I believe that the Lord is really going to use , uh , this vehicle , uh , uh , and this space that he's given you to create and to cultivate , to bless a whole lot of people in the church and out of the church . So , hey , let's get to it , I'm ready . My wife sends her love . Hey , hey .
Speaker 2And she told me this morning . She said , boy , you kind of geek to go do this . She said I don't see you get geek to do too much , no more . I said , well , it's just the fact that I have a long relationship with this couple and to see how the Lord is using them . And so , yeah , absolutely I'm excited .
Speaker 1Well , thank you for being here , thank you for saying yes . You know , I'm always delighted and thrilled when I call and I ask and the answer is yes , because people don't have to say yes , you know . So , thank you for your yes . And going back to let's just , let's just get right on into it . So we have known each other for lots of years .
Speaker 1And so I met you . The first time I met you , you were the organist for the church that we attended and I was in the youth choir . Yes , and listen , you did not play any games at all . You didn't play with the people . You wanted the tempo to be right , you wanted the music to be right . There needed to be sitting in the choir under this , you know , under this leadership , then you were going to have to get it together and learn your part and know it and know it well , and not be playing around because you didn't have time for games .
Speaker 2All of that was birthed out of my mom . She was what they would call now an old school choir trainer .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2She was . I mean , how about this one ? As a young gifted boy , I had the ability to play drums at an early age and sound like a much older young man .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2So you know , you get to feeling yourself on the drums and she's directing or teaching and you're not paying attention to her because all the people are like play , little boy , you're a poker jerk , you better play . And I'm going in and all of a sudden here comes a hymnal flying across . Oh no , she said , watch me . And then to come through the late Dr Maddie Moss Clark who , when she would come to Memphis , she just deemed me her drummer .
Speaker 1Ok , listen , that's a high honor .
Speaker 2Absolutely , and she loved my mom . My mom would work with her in the jurisdiction and then , by the time I got to high school , the late Dr Lula Hedgman of .
Speaker 2Overton High School , a performing arts school , and she made my mother look gentle , right , wow . So all of that , and I've always respected music , yeah , especially . You know my mom would say she would use the scripture whatever you do , do it wholeheartedly as unto the Lord , yeah , and she used to tell me you ought to be happy that the Lord gave you a gift . Come on To bless his people , because you know you dirty and you ain't saved . To bless his people , cause you know you dirty and you ain't saved , she would say it just like that Okay , mama , you know you dirty and you know you ain't saved , the least you can do , oh god , is bless his people and give him the best . I said you know what . You ain't lying , you not lying .
Speaker 1Wait . So now I got a question , I got a follow up question . So you grew up in the church and so you grew up with all of these great leaders , with all of these great people in the kingdom as your mentors . And you say your mom was like you know , because you know you ain't saved . So when did the transformation happen ? Where it stopped becoming performance and it became you know , like real to you ?
Speaker 2Well , it has never been performance . Okay , Okay , Uh . She taught me and others how to tap in , uh to the spirit realm when you're giving worship . So I'm never judgmental over a person's or for a person's lifestyle .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2While they're sitting inside their gift Gifts and callings cometh ETH continuously without repenting . Right Not the person repenting God never repents for the gifts that he's given or will continue to give . Right gifts that he's given or will continue to give . So , being familiar with people , you become too familiar , it becomes natural .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2I didn't , the light bulb didn't go off for me that Bishop Gilbert Patterson was one of the greatest leaders that would probably ever walk the planet for a minute until I was in my 20s .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Because my aunt used to do his hair Wow At a beauty shop . What you know what I'm saying . So I'm hanging out at the beauty shop , wow , and he getting a pressing curl . You know what I mean . This is my pastor . I love that he getting hooked up Right , wow , pressing curl . This is my pastor . He's getting hooked up right , wow . So all of that , you know when , when , when things are so familiar .
Speaker 2I will look at everybody else who are . Who are ? What's your problem ? But when the light came on , or when I started having my personal epiphanies , okay , okay , it's like you know what , al , you really need to start running toward a personal relationship with Christ , yeah , yeah . Now what is that going to look like for you , al ?
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Not what it looked like for my mom and dad .
Speaker 3Right .
Speaker 2For Bishop Patterson , Dr Clark and all of those people . So I had to get on my journey .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2So I know we sing . I looked at my hands and they looked new . I looked at my feet , and they did too . I looked at my hands they looked the same . Okay , they were the same . I had the same fleshly desires . Come on , I had to embrace . Like Negro , you got a strong human experience . You ready to happen here and you come and kicking and screaming , but at least the mind set Okay , begin
Early Years as a Church Musician
Speaker 2to form .
Speaker 1Okay , okay For me . And when was that Like your teenage years ?
Speaker 2No , baby , leave them teenage years alone . We can never pick them up , not at all . No , no , twelfth grade was a blur . I sell through twelfth grade a blur . I sailed through 12th grade . You mean you talking about sailing every day ? Look at your neighbor and say every day , every day was a day of Thanksgiving . You hear me Right ? So no , I got married when I was 22 years old . Who , uh-huh and couldn't , nobody tell me I wasn't ready .
Speaker 1Listen okay .
Speaker 2But your first knee jerk hit me about four , five years later . Ooh .
Speaker 3Okay , what you doing Okay okay , right , and I was like wait a minute .
Speaker 2Okay , and the bills and the babies and the yeah , it just started rolling . I need Jesus Because this stuff got real , this stuff got real real quick . It's like boy , you ain't gonna make it Reverend , no , sir .
Speaker 3You have tried this thing on your own .
Speaker 2Yep , now you out here , you ain't got a boat , paddle , life jacket , nothing . You getting ready to sink , doc ? Oh baby .
Speaker 1And you said , father . I stretched my hands to thee no other help .
Speaker 2I know Because my daddy said I tried to tell you . My mama said I told you not to do it . That was the help . That was the help . That was the help .
Speaker 1Oh , my God .
Speaker 2What's up .
Speaker 1Oh my God , Okay yeah .
Speaker 2People don't know all that about me , man . You know they see me now . They're like ooh , you talking about coming through hard trials , listen .
Speaker 3And tribulations .
Speaker 2Yes , ma'am , somehow I made it . All those songs were written for Al Cleveland Jr .
Speaker 1If it had not been , and the list goes on . Listen , because the mercy , the grace and mercy of God .
Speaker 2I misused both of them , abused them , took advantage of them , right Manipulated them . Just throw your list out there . They called my mama , jesus' niece , and I was the spawn of Satan for a minute . Oh no , how you put that together . Absolutely .
Speaker 1So how did you come to ? So ? You're a preacher , you have walked in the pastor seat , you are just a leader in the community , you have your business and all the different things . What would you say is your purpose ?
Speaker 2your purpose . My purpose is to be , I would say , a beacon , to say that there are , there's much more in us than we allow ourselves to cultivate . Okay , there was a point in time that if you had told me 30 plus years ago that I would be in corporate America , I would have laughed at you , because I thought the only thing that I would ever do forever is do drums and keyboards . Wow , because I was just that good at it .
Speaker 1I mean you were , you were , listen , listen , I remember , I remember .
Speaker 2You know , started playing on records at 19 and on drums and turning down R&B gigs . In my own self-righteousness I said , well , at least I ain't doing that . I should have went on out on the road . In my own self-righteousness I said , well , at least I ain't doing that , but I was doing everything else . I should have went on out on the road . So we don't explore the various gifts . So I'm always encouraging others . I don't care how old you are . Ask the Lord yeah , what else is it ? And start putting yourself out there right to see .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2And even if you find that that is not your call , who knows God would have used you in that moment to turn the light on for somebody else . It moves you on that is true , that is true .
Speaker 1So an encourager and a would you , would you ? The word that comes to mind is pusher . So , because I see you as a pusher of the gospel , a pusher of people and pushing them to purpose . Yes , a pusher of people . Yes , um , and help pushing them to purpose . Yes , um , what has that looked like in the secular space ? Um ?
Speaker 2let me start off by saying I am extremely paulinian in theology and in practice . Meaning Paul was a businessman that is never really celebrated because he was such a great pusher , forwarder of the message , the gospel of Jesus Christ , through the preached word , teaching and church planting . But he also had strong business acumen .
Speaker 1That is true .
Speaker 2He connected with Priscilla and Aquila , who already had their licenses , already had a place , and they were positioned by the Mediterranean Sea trade . So he was meeting people from all over the world and he did not want to be a burden on these two converts , priscilla and Aquila . So let me work out of your shop building tents and I'm meeting people from around the world introducing them to the gospel of Jesus Christ . Wow , al Cleveland says go tell these young ones out here , yeah , I don't care how well you can preach , how well you can sing , the Bible tells us to go into the highways and the hedges and compel people to come to Christ .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's what I do . What I do , okay , okay , my plan every day in my mission , even when I travel . If you're sitting next to me on the plane , I'm gonna let you talk and find out how can I insert jesus . Okay , okay . If I'm in the lounge chilling and we wind up sitting next to each other , my mind says God got you sitting here next to me , gotcha , just to check and see . Do you know him ?
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2Now , he that went up , the soul , is wise . How do I do that ? Do I go in and say now you say you'd be going to hell ? No , move away from me , you a creep right . No , so you , you have to learn how to get in there . Yeah , and I teach that , I teach that and opportunities have opened up for me in the marketplace . Yeah , by presenting christ , okay , wow , I know , it's just amazing . Okay , it's amazing , I'm still that preacher .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2And if you need me to sing sometime . I'm not a great singer , but I can hold that note Right ? You want me to play a little bit ? I don't care . Okay , the drummer don't show up . I'll hold it down until somebody get here . Wow , even if I'm the preacher . Wow , even if I'm the preacher Because I'm , I'm showing them . We got to come out of this mindset that you know I'm Mr Hoof Hoofy . I miss Hoof Hoofy . They love it Right , because there are younger people watching us .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2And I am still in awe of the times that the late Bishop Gilbert Patterson would come out and get on the organ .
Speaker 3Wow .
Speaker 2In the middle of a song , the great Bishop GE Wow . Or when Bishop Darrell Hines from Milwaukee would . He would come to preach for us at Progressive , and the drummer hadn't got there yet . I'm on the organ . He'll get on the drums .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 3Wow yeah .
Speaker 1Okay , okay , so you've watched and learned and seen a different type of servant leadership , absolutely so . Wow , you know , I hadn't really thought about it like that . So basically , you're just continuing to walk out servant leadership .
Speaker 2Absolutely .
Speaker 1In the different facets of your life .
Speaker 2Absolutely . I'm of the persuasion that says I love the name my mother gave me .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Because she loved my daddy so much . I'm going to name my first boy after this man Like dude , what you do , boom Right , I got to get a wife and do that Boy . After this man like dude , what you do , boom Right , I got to get a wife and do that . So I'm not hooked on titles . Yeah , because , unfortunately for you , you would be upset if I showed you my birth certificate and you don't see pastor . You don't see rim . You don't see elder . You don't see apostle you don't see elder . You don't see apostle . You don't see it doesn't exist . It don't say that .
Speaker 1That's my call Correct In the spirit realm .
Speaker 2Yes , so I let people call me what they see . That's why some call me Dr Cleveland , okay . Some call me Bishop Cleveland . Okay , some call me Apostle Cleveland .
Speaker 1Okay . And the list goes on , but when I come to the mic God bless you I'm Al Cleveland . Okay , okay , okay , all right , listen , because that's the name your mother gave you . That's what my mama named me .
Speaker 2And I convinced my wife to name my first son . I know my son convinced his wife to name his son . This thing ain't working for me . You gonna stick with it . I'm gonna stick with it . Y'all need to follow me . I'm telling you it works . Be okay with who you are and walk in your call .
Speaker 1Now , how did you get to the place where you were okay with who you were and walking in your call
Finding Personal Faith Beyond Performance
Speaker 1Like when did you even accept the call .
Speaker 2Now , that's a great story . Okay , I accepted it as a way so I can get some sleep , not to actually do it . I just . I just said yes , lord , that will you leave me alone . Y'all want the truth , or you want me to make it ? We want the truth . The people need the truth . I need to go to bed . I was 22 , 23 years old , can't rest and I'm hearing sounds . Just tell me yes , okay , yes , yes , I'll preach One time my child's sermon and I'm done . I said yes , right , one time . One time I was cool . One time , 45 years later , 45 years ago right , wow I didn't , I wouldn't run it .
Speaker 2Running towards this I've always known , but I'm just like how long can I push this ?
Speaker 1off Because you knew what came with the call Absolutely and you didn't take it lightly .
Speaker 2Absolutely yeah , even after telling the Lord . Yes , I knew my life was still kind of raggedy . I gotta clean this up and clean that up . Wait , that's too much . Yes , I knew my life was still kind of raggedy . I got to clean this up and clean that up . Wait , that's too much . That's too much work in this .
Speaker 1Yes , Listen that , yes , had you out there .
Speaker 2That , yes , had you out there , your flesh was like don't do it . Yes , said now you know he's going . He's like see , this is why I didn't want to talk to you in the first place exactly .
Speaker 1This is why I didn't want to do this , because you're gonna be ever present .
Speaker 2Ain't nothing like trying to do wrong and you hear right . Talking to me , said some of these other folk . They ain't got this problem , they just do wrong , that's true .
Speaker 1And keep it moving , that's true . And don't think . Don't think nothing else about it , nothing but those of us first thing you're coming for is their sleep so when you accepted the call at what you said 22 , 23 , somewhere okay , that's , that's pretty young , that's pretty young . What do you remember ? Your first sermon ?
Speaker 2absolutely okay . What was mine ? Uh from from the scripture that says uh , when I would do good , evil is ever present .
Speaker 1Lift that .
Speaker 2I promise you . And it was dealing with the warring in the spirit realm within yourself . Yeah yeah . The title of the message was no More Excuses , Mm . I still have the cassette tape . Bishop Patterson allowed my father to introduce me , which is the funniest thing ever . Okay , Because he was just like . I can't believe this is getting ready to happen .
Speaker 1I know this is God .
Speaker 2The annex is packed with like 600 people because the word got out in the city . Wow , al doing his trial , sermon Hoo they coming . Got to see it for myself , got to see it for myself . All of the community choirs and musicians . They was just like no , no , no , no .
Speaker 1They came from far away .
Speaker 2Twinkie Clark was in town , okay , and she came by and she sang before .
Speaker 1I preached , oh wow .
Speaker 2Now it was me and this other guy .
Speaker 1Okay , he went first Okay .
Speaker 2Have you ever seen someone stand at a podium and a mobile mortuary comes out the back ? Have you ever seen someone Stand at a podium and A mobile mortuary Comes out the back and just plugs the embalmer and just put up in it ? Baby , he died . Do you hear me ? It was just set up like that . If you can't win after this one , you ain't got nothing . His little notes fail . And I was looking at him . I was like you better die , just die , oh , lord , I'm so come on 22 , 23 . Bishop patterson looked over at me like you better not laugh . But I know he was silly too . He wanted to laugh . He knew if he had to start laughing , it's a wrap , it's over . I would have came to the mic still laughing . Yep , so preach the message . Here's , here's , here's a grace of God . Okay , show showing up . Almost 60 to 80 young people came to the altar . Wow and gave their lives to Christ .
Speaker 1Come on , Jesus .
Speaker 2I ain't cried so hard , I'm just like this got to be , the Holy Spirit . Yes , this is not me .
Speaker 1I'm a mess , right Like , do you know ? I'm a whole mess over here . This is not me . I'm a mess , right Like , do you know I'm a whole mess over here . And you used me to do this . Wow , yeah , wow .
Speaker 2Yeah , sure did , no more excuses .
Speaker 1Huh , so no more . So it sounds like you were preaching to yourself . Absolutely , like , absolutely .
Speaker 2Absolutely , and I was too young and stupid to know it until I went back and listened to it Like this is eerie .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , Wow , Wow . That's pretty amazing . If you're enjoying the episodes like share , subscribe , leave us a comment . We'd love to hear from you . Today's episode is brought to you by Destiny Film and Media . Go to destinyfam1.com for all your media needs . Destiny Film and Media your destiny through film and media . Through film and media . So you do your trial sermon and like what happens after that . What do those years , those first years , look like ? Being a young minister , newly married and still figuring out all the things . What does that look like for you and how are you navigating that space to be able to not embarrass God ?
Speaker 2Well , first thing , let's go back to . I meant what I said . Okay , I didn't have to preach again after that . I was not looking for preaching dates . Right , you start talking about a preaching date . I walk off Doing that again . Like I'm done , I'm done .
Speaker 1I did what you asked me to do .
Speaker 2I thought we were good . I'm back on this organ teaching the choirs . Listen , I'm gone , Okay okay . Honestly Okay , honestly . It was when we moved up here . My wife's aunt , the late missionary Janet DuPart , a living theologian who never accepted her call . I just called her missionary would sit me at the dinner table and rake me over the coals yeah , she was just like you smart , you gifted , but you don't know nothing . Wow , you got to read this and she would give me stuff to read . Okay , every family function was at her house in Maywood .
Speaker 1So you had to be there it was all the food .
Speaker 2I'm young and poor , so we going , we going , because food was going to be everywhere and they all could cook . I'm like , oh yes , be there . And I tried to dodge that kitchen table . Wow Sit at the dinner table , her and the late Miss Edwards . They would sit there and pick the Bible apart . Wow , they never called nobody else to the table but me . Really , yes , she said . God told me he's going to use you , come on . And you got to get ready .
Speaker 1Wow , yes , so she was obedient and just poured into you . Yes , so she just she was obedient and just poured into you .
Speaker 2Absolutely , and you . She was , like you know , say , the queen of my wife's family .
Speaker 3So yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2You can't tell auntie that no , no , no , no . And you can't get sassy and you can't just get up from the table .
Speaker 1You bet not .
Speaker 2That's going to be a whole problem and the rest of the family would walk by the table , pat me on my back and get your hand off of me . You ain't sitting here . Don't be touching me . Y'all know how we do . We'll be already aggravated . My wife and her cousin was peep around the corner she's getting them again , getting them again but . I thank the Lord . It's just like she picked up right where my mom left off , because we used to have Sunday school on Thursday nights .
Speaker 1Okay , so you grew up in one of those houses too ? Yes , Okay . Okay , listen , we didn't play .
Speaker 2It was not a game At all . You got to open and press scripture you better know it , the review , all that and that was your homework . You better know it . But I got homework for school and you better have this ready for Thursday . And her switch sitting right here . Ooh , not with the switch too . Yes , I would get up and try to fluff through the general review . Sit down , you ain't studied nothing .
Speaker 1Oh , wow , and you're doing it .
Speaker 2You're doing the new review Next week and you're going to end Recap with this one that you fluffed over .
Speaker 1Oh , wow , okay . So I guess my daddy wasn't that bad Cause . Listen , we just had to sit there and listen and learn and be able to review and recap . But , like at eight , we had the . He was pulling out the concordance . Sir , I'm a cordon , sir , I'm eight , I don't care . Like what , you need look this up , look this up . You need to know how to do . You need to know how to look this up , you need to .
Speaker 1And I didn't , I didn't understand that at the time he was because my , my dad did go to uh , uh , he went to moody uh , for a season and I didn't , I didn't . But before that he was , you know , in the brotherhood , in the baptist church , you know , going all over the country and stuff . I didn't realize that he was like the like now , you way better at this than than I am . But the hermeneutics , the , the hermeneutics , the homiletics , the , all those things I didn't read to exegete , the scripture I didn't realize that that's what he was teaching me , teaching us how to do . But when I got older and I started hearing all these times , I was like , well , what is that and what is this and what's ?
Speaker 2I was like oh , it wasn't until I entered uh uh Northern Baptist um seminary . When I first entered , they had a dual track where you get your bachelor's and your master's at the same time . And they were asking well , what is your seminary background ? I don't have any . It was like yeah , right , the class go on and I'm just engaging right . I'm firing on all cylinders because I hadn't , as you , I hadn't paid attention to like my mom was a theological genius yeah right , yeah , and she was just pouring into me , pouring into me .
Speaker 2So all of the professors not all , but like two or three of them invited me out to lunch . My wife said you know they , they just want to pick your brain .
Speaker 1Because they they try not to say it .
Speaker 2And they had me to explain my upbringing . And they said you've already had systematic theology .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2And . I said my mama don't know nothing about no sister or nomadic . Trust me , loretta didn't know none of that Right .
Speaker 3That's it .
Speaker 2But she had that Catholic school upbringing . On study she was at the top of the Baptist training union sessions and all this kind of stuff .
Speaker 2Right . So she was , just like my kids , going to know this Bible because my grandfather used to tell her you got them down there with them sanctified folk , and they ain't learning nothing . So she was proving him wrong . Okay , so all of that , all things work together for the good of them that love the Lord , who are called according to his purpose , his prothesis , like his pointed mind about our lives . Yeah yeah , wow , I know it's crazy .
Speaker 1It's crazy , so as you .
Speaker 2So when was the next time you preached the sermon ? When ? Well now , my father had a little church , uh , at the same time , and I blew him off for like a year , year and a half , until I couldn't blow him off . So he did a little church , but he had , he had grown into like two , 75 , 300 people . Yeah , and you know , I'm so glad that there are no tapes of that mess , because I wouldn't study , you wouldn't study . I was gifted to sing and move to people , read a Bible verse , give you some water down , wow . And afterwards my mama used to shake her ass and say
Accepting the Call to Ministry
Speaker 2that was a mess . That lady boy , I'm telling you , you didn't even try , you didn't even try . I said , but the people were blessed . Mama , she said that was your gift , that was not your word . Now I said something right there . Say it again that was your gift and not your word . Come on Now . How many folk go to church every Sunday and they call the gift the word ?
Speaker 1Well , well Amen .
Speaker 2Let all earth be silent before me . Listen .
Speaker 3You're right .
Speaker 2And I'm not . I'm gonna jump off that train .
Speaker 1Hey , hey , right , okay , what's my next question ? So how ? So what made you come to the Chicagoland area ?
Speaker 2You ask great questions . Good questions Made me as operative . You're so on point . Okay , I had no plans to be here . My wife was like I'm going up to Chicago to help my mama with these kids .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2And then she called me one day and said I ain't coming back , so if you want us to stay , you better come up here . I'm like what Wow ?
Speaker 1Are you serious ? Your wife is a G , she from the west side .
Speaker 2West side . I mean , she just pumped me out , I'm on the phone , like she got to be playing .
Speaker 1She can't be serious .
Speaker 2So I said , alright , we're going to stay up there for about six months , eight months , and we'll come back home . She was like never agreed , never disagreed to this day I can't say she lied she said I'm so young and stupid . I should have caught that .
Speaker 1Hmm , I should have caught it was a lot in there hmm , yeah , okay .
Speaker 2Now how many years later ? Right 36 years later , I'm still here still here , so yeah , that's she got a job at the post office and that's pretty much landed .
Speaker 1I'm still out there playing the churches , so you win okay , okay , okay okay , you got benefits .
Speaker 2I I get a check on sunday yeah , right , there's a difference . There's a whole difference . There's a difference , so yeah , oh , wow , yeah , wow but it it . It introduced me to my first run with Corporate America .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Because this same Aunt , jeanette , was the office secretary for a fine pewter gift company and they had an opening for customer service . Okay , and she told them about her new nephew and I came up in my church suit , I was ready .
Speaker 1Listen , I know you was clean .
Speaker 2I was cutting edges , baby , the wind was saying ouch , I'm cracking with , check , check Coming in there , socks , suit , Ooh , ooh , ooh . When did the service stop ? Listen ? Okay , it's like this ain't no service . This is having an interview , because I'm ready , I'm ready , church ready . And God had it where the national , the guy who was over the national accounts , was coming back from lunch and he was a nice dresser , okay . So when he walked in to see me he was just like and who are you ? And of course he didn't say that you know he was . I said and I stood up how you doing ? I'm , I'm here for the interview for uh , customer service . He said oh wow , I heard him on the other side of the office talking to the president and the vice president that I and uh they sent for the manager of customer service . She came and got me whatever . She went back and told them . I later found out they said just introduce him to the company okay so he can learn the product .
Speaker 2You know . I got a weekly check and I'm playing for a church .
Speaker 1Come on and .
Speaker 2I got benefits .
Speaker 1Listen , you doing good , I'm doing good , yeah , oh yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2And one day during lunch , it just dawned on me there is no African-American representation for this product .
Speaker 3Ah , so instead of going to , lunch .
Speaker 2For a week I stayed during my lunch break and the Holy Spirit just gave me the idea of starting with the HBCUs and the fraternities and sororities , creating the same logos that they were creating for Penn State and Delta , chi and all these , you know , know , predominantly white fraternities and sororities , and they were moving millions of dollars of this uh product . Oh wow , doing lunch , I created it and then I start calling , cold , calling these places , these hbcus , okay , I convinced the same guy who had seen me come in months earlier and I was dressing like this every day coming to work , because that's all you got .
Speaker 2That's all I got right I got him to go to the vice president and ask them to create some mock product .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2I said to ship it to them . Every HBCU got it , the Divine Nine got it and the phones went crazy .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 2They said they called me down one day . I'm just , I'm finna get fired , what's going on ? And they said we're moving you out of customer service . You will now be our regional manager over African American products because you created it . Wow , and I started flying all around the country with this product .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 2During those years I went to every conclave ever . Wow From the drums to the organ . That's why you can't talk to me about marketplace , got you ? That's why you can't talk to me about marketplace , Because if you put yourself out there and allow those gifts to come alive , scripture says he will lead and guide you into all truth . There's a scripture that we quote in the westernized text that says trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not until the all own understanding , yeah but in all your ways , acknowledge him and he shall direct your path .
Speaker 2The original transcript says lean on the lord . Okay , with all your heart . Uh-huh , don't trust your own understanding . Don't trust , don't trust it . My understanding was I need to find a bigger church gig . My understanding was okay , I probably need to go on a gospel
Breaking into Corporate America
Speaker 2tour okay , listen , that was my understanding .
Speaker 1That's where the money was that's where the money was .
Speaker 2Okay , okay , but he was just like , if you do it my way , this is just the beginning of what's in your future . Wow , I teach and preach a message . All the time he says Jesus Christ . The same yesterday , today and forever . Yeah , I tagged it . God is in your future and he can hear you over there . Come on , when is the last time you took a pause just to talk to your tomorrow ?
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Okay , okay , because if he's omnipresent , yeah , he's there , right , he is , he's already there . He is . And guess where else he is ? He's still in the past , where you done forgot .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2Because when you look back and you see what his presence and his grace did to get you to today , right , it ought to make you confident to know . Well , if he kept me from my foolish self yesterday , surely I got some halves of a good mind right now .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2He's in my tomorrow waiting .
Speaker 1Okay , listen , wow , wow , that is Amazing . It waiting . Okay , listen , wow , that is Amazing , it is . It's amazing . You literally walked in off the street .
Speaker 2Off the street .
Speaker 1Because your aunt said you need , I got something for you . Come on in here .
Speaker 2And you ain't going to tell your niece , my wife this Negro don't want to work .
Speaker 1Listen what you're not going to do . You're not going to say that to her . You're not . You're not . You're going to show up in your Sunday suits . But all of that worked .
Speaker 2For my good . Wow , it set me on a path .
Speaker 1You created a whole new division . Yeah , you created a whole new division , yeah a high grade C student .
Speaker 2High grade , baby high grade I mastered the C . Can't nobody make a C like Cleveland . No , ma'am , my sister did all that A's and I threw this too much . My daddy said don't bring no F's and I threw this too much . My daddy said don't bring no F's and D's in this house .
Speaker 3I said it's a C-O-K .
Speaker 2I got you daddy a , c it is . I did nothing extra . Now here I am getting on planes going all over the whole region .
Speaker 1Wow , wow . And you said it came because you stayed during lunch . Yeah , and said God what you want me to do ? Yeah , no , don't make it that spiritual ?
Speaker 2okay , some days I didn't have no money for lunch . Just might as well sit on down here and try looking at everybody else . You see , just stay up at your desk . You said it wasn't that deep it wasn't that deep . I'm not that preacher to hear a little thing , and you know , the spirit of the Lord moved . I was hungry , just flat out hungry . Couldn't afford nothing .
Speaker 2So I'm gonna write out something , something got a break , something got the break . I thank god for this check , but we don't get paid till next week . Come on , okay , okay , just practical , absolutely absolutely .
Speaker 1And out of that struggle , wow week .
Speaker 2Come on now . We got to rev this up , just practical , absolutely , and out of that struggle came that .
Speaker 1So you did this up until .
Speaker 2Until they moved to San Antonio and my wife said we ain't going to San Antonio , she just been running it Because we're here Because we're here . I meant to be here when you got here . I meant was already cemented , right ? So yeah , so that was who was born . Then , uh , it had to be like 90 , 91 , all the way up until like 95 , 96 . Okay , okay , and then the Lord opened up a job for me to become a sales analyst for Inland Steel . I know .
Speaker 1What , what .
Speaker 2I'm managing .
Speaker 1What I know , that's a major international corporation . What I know , Like this , is that's a major international corporate .
Speaker 2What With corporate cards and everything . I'm just like Wow , and I never talked about it , because I'm like I'm just taking care of my family .
Speaker 1Right right .
Speaker 2That's it .
Speaker 1That's what it was about .
Speaker 2That was the old school mentality from my dad . I'm like I'm why I'm trying to break . To me what everybody else was doing was far greater than anything that I was doing .
Speaker 1Wow , because I didn't have no degree , right , I wouldn't , so you didn't even .
Speaker 2Wow yeah , two young ladies , one from the church and her friend who was a supervisor up in there got me ready for the interview . We would practice . That's what's up . I'm from rehearsal . I understand practice . Yes , yes , yes . And they told me what to say , how to say who to look at when I say this . And da da , da , yes , yes . And they told me what to say , how to say who to look at when I say this . And da-da-da-da-da , okay , yeah .
Speaker 1Wow . So let's , let's , let's . So now I'm seeing the theme . I'm seeing a theme of preparation , even when you weren't necessarily looking for it Amen . So you were as a child , you were , you know , prepped to and you saw musicians , you saw ministers . You , you know , your mother , you know , displayed uh , excellence in , in , in , teaching , and of the , of the music and all the things . So you sat up under that tutelage and , but hold on .
Speaker 2And I don't mean to stop you , but all the greats were at our house , the baddest musicians at the time yeah , yeah , they came through your house , they was like mother's calling and they call either Mother Red or Red or Loretta .
Speaker 2And then , when they start accepting their call to become preachers many of the older preachers down there who are apostles and bishops now they came through on my mama's couch . Wow , they accepted their call to the apostleship , they accepted the call to become a senior pastor . I'm 14 , 15 , watching the older guys crying I was like , oh , she got you on that couch , she got you , she's going to feed you real good and she's going to take that Bible and just go at you . So at the time again back to when we first started talking- yeah yeah , it's just started talking .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , just the norm . Yeah , it was nothing major .
Speaker 1Yeah , and now you see , Now I see that it was all like it was a setup from the beginning .
Speaker 2From the beginning .
Speaker 3Wow .
Speaker 1Yes , Wow , wow and wow .
Speaker 3So , question .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm while , so question all of I'm trying to ask a specific question . So all of the things that , all the experience , that you experiences , that you had , and you know all the experience that you had , and you know all the experiences that you had , and then you become a pastor . What was that season like for you and
Leadership Lessons from Pastoring
Speaker 1what ? What made you accept that call to pastorship and then what made you transition out of it .
Speaker 2Um , honestly , I I knew that this call uh had always been on my life . Problem was , I wish I would have had more training first . Retrospect is everything .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Okay , okay , uh , uh , not just teaching and preaching , but how to lead people , how to deal with uh different types of people , different types of uh nuances , yeah , yeah , because nuances yeah .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2Because everybody is not the same . They're not , and I feel like I could have done it better and I , early on , I could have built something more sustaining if I had had that part together .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2A lot of times when you're super gifted , you just expect everybody to come on Because that's all I had seen . But what I did not see is those times that these great people would have private conversations with these same people that they're giving marching orders to , and see them studying their nuances and knowing when to back off , when to apply ointment .
Speaker 3Yeah , right , yeah .
Speaker 2Because the other three they find oh , that's Al child , but the other one messed up . I done messed him up , right .
Speaker 3Okay , because .
Speaker 2Al , this is not a choir rehearsal . It's not . This is building a church . There's not .
Speaker 1This is building a church .
Speaker 2There's a difference .
Speaker 1There is a difference .
Speaker 2So I don't like that term . Collateral damage no , just own it . Yeah , you messed up , so you want to do it again . Okay , no , okay .
Speaker 1You blew it . I mean that's pretty honest , um , and I appreciate the honesty , um , I guess what ? So what would you say to somebody who has stepped out into something that is a good thing , mm-hmm , but they're not , but they feel like , well , I guess the question I should ask before that is what made you say it's time to transition out of this .
Speaker 2Well , lifestyle lifing .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 2Okay , out of this , well , um lifestyle lifing okay . Okay , the the uh uh second uh , aortic aneurysm .
Speaker 1Shut it down on the next episode .
Speaker 2Press into purpose what would your mom say ? You ought to be happy , come on and bring it back you got something that still blesses his people . Wow , then you add on to this and he done spared your life . How many times , boy ? Come on , that's a great checker . Come on , I started getting it together . Yeah , we have an assignment .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , you remember that first time , al . That could have been the last time you remember that first time out . That could have been the last time you remember that second time out . Yeah , that could have been the last time . How about the third time now ? Surely Right . And then he gets me right together .
Speaker 1Okay , today's episode is brought to you by Destiny Film and Media . Go to destinyfam1.com for all your media needs . Destiny Film and Media your destiny through film and media .