Pressed Into Purpose

The Sanders - Grace, Grief, And Growing A Marriage Without A Rulebook

• Valeria Wright • Season 2 • Episode 2

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We trace how Pastor Antoine and Lady Lakeisha Sanders friendship turned into a 22-year marriage and a shared call to ministry, then face hard truths about conflict, security, and grief. Obedience, community, and honest communication reshape what love looks like when life moves fast and loss cuts deep.

• origin story from choir and drums to co-parents to marriage
• trading the motorcycle for a ring and closing old doors
• process, journey, and obedience in rapid life shifts
• rejecting borrowed models of marriage and making your own
• conflict rules that forbid hitting below the belt
• 48-hour window for tough talks and building repair
• healing rejection and finding security together
• grief as a lifelong journey, not a moment
• presence over fixing and how to give space
• church community as a lifeline and “fillers” not replacements
• preparing for God’s will and praying for readiness
• carrying family legacy as elders transition


Thanks for listening! 

Until next time, continue to press into your purpose!

Meet The Sanders And The Origin Story

SPEAKER_04

Hello, and welcome to Pressed Into Purpose Podcast. Um, we are in season two, and we are having a great time talking about marriage. And today's guests, I want to tell you, well, before I get to today's guests, let me tell you that I still have a co-host here, Mr. Samuel Wright, my husband, and the uh producer and owner of uh Destiny Film and Media. He will be uh co-hosting with me today. Thank you, Sam. Hello.

SPEAKER_02

I'm grateful. Thank you, Marshawn. I'm grateful.

SPEAKER_04

I don't have no skittles though, but I'm gonna um I'm I'm very happy to have you co-hosting with me.

SPEAKER_03

I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, thank you. Um, and so let's get right into it. Today, our guests are Pastor Antoine and Lady Lakeisha Sanders. Pastor Twan is a dynamic preacher, spiritual leader, and champion of unity and purpose. Known for his powerful teaching on connection and community, Pastor Twan believes that when we link with the right people, we unlock and command blessings and next-level living. He serves alongside his wife, Lady Lakeisha, Lakeisha Janae Sanders, a visionary leader, pastor, author, and founder of Serenity Life, a faith-based organization dedicated to restoring peace and redefining healing. From her best-selling devotional, Serenity 30 Days to a New Start, she is on a mission to break barriers and empower people through conversations that heal. Please help me welcome to the podcast, Pastors Antoine and Lady Lakeisha Sanders. Welcome you all.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Go to the introduction.

SPEAKER_01

I'm looking around like that.

From Friends And Co-Parents To Marriage

SPEAKER_04

That is the two of you. The two of you. Thank you all for coming to join us today on the podcast. We are we are grateful and thankful that you would you would choose to come and share with us, but not only share with us, but share with our podcast community um about love and marriage and all the things and just life. And so I just want to jump right on into it. Okay. Jump in. Um, so we have uh in your intro, we talk about how you know you are pastors, and but before we get to pastors, I want to know about the people. Okay. Okay. So tell tell us uh how long have you all been married, uh, and if you want to share your origin story, but just how how long have we been married and um how did we get here?

SPEAKER_01

I'll let you start.

SPEAKER_04

I knew he was gonna let me start. So we have been married 22 years. Okay. It will be 23 in March. All right. Long time, long time. That's a big deal, people. It's a big deal.

unknown

Amen.

SPEAKER_00

Prior.

SPEAKER_04

Right. So I guess that's how we got here. We actually met in church. Okay. Okay. I was singing in the choir. Okay. He was the drummer. I think we were 16 and 17. Wow. Just two kids thinking we know what we were doing and we didn't. Um, we were really good friends, actually. We just had a really close friend group. Okay. And so we were all really good friends at first, and then came other things that led to having a child before marriage. Um, so we had him first, okay, and then we got married after. Okay, okay. But I think I can say we just started off being really good friends. We were.

SPEAKER_00

That's what you're gonna go with.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we were. What's your story?

SPEAKER_00

Here's the real story. So, of course, we met in church. Uh-huh. She's she's correct. She was in the choir, I'm on the drums. I came at her.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, hey, you know what I'm saying? How you doing? Blah, blah, blah. Shot me down.

SPEAKER_04

Oh. I had a boyfriend. I had a boyfriend. I didn't know it did.

SPEAKER_00

I knew the dude. You didn't get it. And you wasn't nothing. So that's what we're doing. Yeah. I'm like, look, you know what I'm saying? I'm 17, you know what I mean. You know, she shot me down, and so that was it. I wasn't coming at her no more. Okay, okay. Next thing I know, we were engaged. That's that's funny, but that's true.

SPEAKER_04

That is true. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I tried to get her to be with me that one time when we were teenagers, she shot me down. So we just were friends. We never went out on a date. I mean, we hung out and stuff like that, but we didn't date and court and all of that. We co-parented, and one day I had a conversation with my best friend, and he told me these words, he said, There comes a time in a man's life where you have to make a different decision.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

He says, This girl, he they gave me three questions. I can't give you the three questions.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, okay, all right. Go keep a little bit for yourself. Okay, man.

SPEAKER_00

The answers to all of the three questions was yes.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And he said, if she checked all these boxes to these questions, you gotta be with her.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And so the end of whatever year that was, what year was that?

SPEAKER_04

2020. 2020. I mean 2002.

SPEAKER_00

2002. I decided that I was gonna take my motorcycle money and go get a ring.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And to this day, I still don't have a motorcycle.

SPEAKER_04

Price God.

SPEAKER_00

I bought a ring and I proposed to her New Year's Eve. Well, New Year's Day, 2023. We got engaged. 2002. 2003, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04

No, it was 2002. We got married 2003.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But I proposed New Year's.

SPEAKER_04

It was still New Year's Eve. We hadn't crossed over yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So we proposed three months. We planned a wedding. We got married. Amari was born in June.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And the rest is history.

SPEAKER_04

And he's really right. Uh, and we tell the story all the time. We I literally went, we literally went from being friends to co-parents to being married. Wow. Never dated. I was never his girlfriend. I went from the mother of his son to being his wife. So how did that make you feel? Did that make you feel any kind of way? Or you were like, you know, well, this is meant to be. Like, oh, I felt the way. Okay. I wanted to be his girlfriend, like, for a long time. And I didn't know. Did you shut him down? I did. And I think he was low-key trying to punish me for that. Like, he would never give me the title. So we were like, we had a lot of mutual friends. A lot of mutual friends. So we could go out and he would introduce me as his son's mother. And I used to be like, right, right. What is that? Yeah. But it worked for us. Okay. It did. Okay. Because we were really close and we were really cool. And so when he proposed, I was really um shocked. I said no at first. Really? You did. I shouldn't have learned my lessons of saying no to him, right?

SPEAKER_00

Because I had, you know. I could have gone on back and okay.

SPEAKER_04

So I said no because I had just found out I was pregnant with Amari. And I thought he was proposing because I was pregnant. And I did not want him to do that. Yes, yes, because that doesn't typically that doesn't end well. Exactly. But when I found out that he had been saving his money from his little motorcycle that he never got, and he was doing that even before I found out I was pregnant. Then I was like, okay, okay. So you just needed understanding. I did.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. The plan was to eventually propose, but you know, when Amai was conceived, it was kind of like, let me not wait, let me just do it. Do it now. But the plan was a year, maybe, of let me, you know, so your royals before. So let's go ahead and do it.

SPEAKER_04

And so here we are, preaching. Bless the king. So listen, how do we get from, you know, we we we we no, we're not dating. So we're friends, we're co-parenting, we're married, and then now you all are leading a phenomenal church. Like, how do you go from there to here, from singing in the choir and on the drums to preaching, teaching, leading serenity, leading, you know, how did how does that happen?

Calling, Obedience, And Rapid Transitions

SPEAKER_00

Um, process and journey. Okay, okay. Um, I think our whole life has really been process and journey. A lot of times you don't really know what life has for you until you start rolling, and God says, okay, here we go. You know, here's your process, here's the journey, we're here now. So you make this stop, you do whatever you're doing and then stop. Because there was a lot of stops along the way. And so during that journey and process, we learned, we gleaned, we grew, um, and then God prepared us for whatever we were gonna do. We went to that assignment, we learned, we grew, went through the process, and then we went to the next, and we went to the next, and we were faithful. And um, God has always shown Himself to be faithful to us. Everything we commit to do, there's always a reward on the end to it. And so, or or connected to it, I should say. And so when when when um when we got married, I received my I accepted my call to ministry. And so um right after I proposed, was it right after I proposed or right after I got married or something? It was it was the same year. Everything was quick. Um I got married, had a baby, had the baby, and preached your first time in that same year.

SPEAKER_04

Literally, one thing fast on the heels of another. Absolutely. So if I can if I can add to that, it wasn't just process and journey, but it was process, journey, and obedience.

SPEAKER_03

For sure.

SPEAKER_04

Um, because in order for things to happen that fast, you had to have just uh a level of obedience to God to just say, yes, I'm going to do that. So I believe that the the obedience part is what allowed the journey to be so quick.

SPEAKER_00

Got it. Yeah, because God figured, uh, if if this guy watched this. If this guy decides to propose to his the mother of his son and don't change his phone number. I called everybody and said, I'm getting married.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Don't call me again.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't go through the oh, I gotta change my number. I didn't. I was I'm I've always been a straightforward guy. So I made all the phone calls, I told everybody that I needed to tell.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I've had the same phone number for 30 years.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. You was locked in.

SPEAKER_00

And so it was like, hey, this is what I'm doing. I believe, you know what I'm saying? I heard the Lord tell me to go this route. I'm gonna be with the mother of my child, and this is what it is. Lose my number. And I think as minute as that may sound, for a real guy or real man, you know, that's major. Most guys, like, I'm getting married, let me change my number. I didn't. I was very upfront. And I think those were, I think that was the first step for me saying, I really want to go after God for real.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so I believe that was the first step to God saying, okay, this guy trusts me. You know, and so everything after that, like she said, out of obedience, it was kind of like, if I can trust, if I can trust the boy to not change his phone number and tell all his little girls he's getting married, you know what I'm saying? That's that's made.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so everything, like she said, it was an act of obedience, and it happened quick. And for us, I feel like every time God does something, has done anything in our lives, it's always been quick and it's been big. You know, our our wedding, for instance, we were the only, and I can say this on record, okay, out of the history of Pastor Steven Richardson being the pastor of Jordan Temple, nobody has ever started on time.

SPEAKER_04

Okay. He told us that.

SPEAKER_00

He told us that. We started on time. We were waiting on him.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00

So when he called, like, yeah, y'all ready, yeah, we waiting on you. As soon as you get out the car, uh, two o'clock. We started at two o'clock. We ready. Okay. We took our pictures before.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

The flower people was there the day before. Everything was there. So yeah, we so we was like, yeah, we're waiting on you. Let's do it. And so when he pulled up and parked, it was right close to two o'clock. She was coming out of the house, coming around.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We were ready. If I don't know, I mean, we've had a lot of major events at that church, but I think our wedding was one of the biggest ones. My first sermon was probably one of the biggest ones. I mean, I felt like people was hanging out the windows.

unknown

My first sermon.

SPEAKER_00

That's how, you know. And so I just think God, God just does us like that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_03

You got something you want to say?

SPEAKER_02

I'm just with the, well, you know, you just mentioned um process. What was the words again? Processing generally. Analogia. And obedience. I was just looking at the fact that your faithfulness through each stage of that. For sure. Cause, you know, you could be obedient, but the faith behind the obedience, that's how faith action. So you could be obedient, but if you don't believe in it, if you don't have the faith in it, it would not happen. And that's what that's what that's what's up. I'm sorry that you didn't get the girlfriend in a but. And I'm sorry that your motorcycle is on her fingers, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00

She she won't even let me get the motorcycle.

SPEAKER_04

I was supposed to say we're getting the motorcycle on the 25th minute.

SPEAKER_00

But good.

SPEAKER_04

Now I will say this about the faith behind the obedience part. Because we were so young, and we literally had nothing. Trusting God was all we had. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. He says, you know, you guys are in a great spot because y'all ain't got nothing.

SPEAKER_04

We were offended at some point. Right. But he was right. Like, no, you can build together. What? What? Because we were 25 and 26. We were still living at home with our parents. Like, oh my gosh. We got married at 25 and we both were living with our parents. We literally went from mama's house to each other. I've never lived alone.

SPEAKER_00

That's leaving Cleveland. That's Bible. That's Bible.

Building A Marriage That Breaks The Mold

SPEAKER_04

It is. It is. So trusting God was all we had because it's all we knew. Yeah. Yeah. That's all you knew. Okay. So, so tell me, let's let's get a little deeper into it. What kind of challenges have you all had to face as a couple? Um, and how did you overcome them?

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's an easy question for me. That's a tough question for her. Because I'm I'm I'm built different. Okay. Always I'm unbothered. Like even as a no, even as a young man, I just certain things just didn't bother me. Okay. And so I wasn't really rah-rah about he say, she say stuff. I I really didn't get moved by that. Um, I think one of the things that we benefit from each other is we're different. And so the spaces that I'm not so strong in, she she is. Yeah. And vice versa. And so this particular area, I guess, it helped balance her because she was the one that was moved. What people gonna say, and you know what I'm saying? It when they say if anybody feels like these two should not be married, let them speak now. Looking around. She was like, Did I see you so do so? And I'm like, yeah, I wish we both looked down, we would.

SPEAKER_04

Right. I wish I would.

SPEAKER_00

It's just um, I think um for me, just being able to, and I don't want to call it a struggle, but I think it was a big adjustment for me to understand that she was my primary responsibility. Okay, and I had the goods to take care of her.

SPEAKER_04

A lot of times we don't say can you say that again?

SPEAKER_00

We have the goods to take care of her.

SPEAKER_04

But before you said you said she is your primary responsibility. And you and I have the goods.

SPEAKER_00

God gives us the grace to handle who he gives us.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And so a lot of times, even in marital counseling now, I'm quick to say that. Hey, before you say I do, you better understand you have the grace to say I do. Yeah. And do it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because you can say I do, but then when it's time to do, it's like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And so I realized that early. And so I think the biggest, you know, challenge or or adjustment was to not be so focused on me and understand that, hey, I'm graced to deal with her, so let me build myself to learn her and make adjustments and know how she is. To now, you know, she does it, she does, it don't even bother me.

SPEAKER_03

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00

So I think that may be the big biggest challenge. One of the biggest challenges for me.

SPEAKER_04

Okay. Mine was a little different, okay? The biggest challenge for me probably was I didn't have a healthy view of what marriage looked like. Okay. I was raised by a single mom. She never got married. And she said she never wanted to get married. Wow. Because she saw some of the struggles that her siblings went through. Okay. I was blessed to have two fathers. Okay. A biological father, and then a father who raised me. My biological father lived in Arkansas, so I didn't get a chance to see him, you know, in that dynamic with his wife. Okay. But my father that raised me was a single man. He was a bachelor. He was yeah, he had more than one girlfriend. What it do, dog, big, baby.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not sure what type of contest this is.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. So when it came to looking for a healthy marriage, I had to look outside of my home. Okay. I thought we were gonna have a cosby show. We were gonna be the Huxtables.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't.

SPEAKER_04

Because for a young girl growing up in the 80s, that was what we had to look forward to if you didn't have a father in home. It was like Claire and Heathkill Huxtable. They got five kids, this is their life. And it was the depiction of this is what a black family should look like. Yes. So that's what I thought for a long time. And so I had to unpack that narrative because that was for television and this is real life. Yeah. And so when it came time for us to get married, I had to look outside of my home to try to figure out what should I model. Okay. And that even had to be corrected because my pastor at the time had to say, don't look at anybody. You guys get to change or challenge the narrative that someone else has given you. And now it's up to you to create what your marriage is going to look like. That is such great advice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And people miss that. Because for me, I didn't, you know, the Cosby show was cool, but I was a Martin fan. Okay. So Martin and Gina, I'm like, that's life. They kicking it. You know what I'm saying? Like they live living a life. But she's right. Pastor said in one of our counseling sessions, he said, whatever your outlook on marriage is, throw it out the window. Yeah. So whoever you think you should model after, get rid of it. It's gonna be whatever you want it to be. And I I really, really took that to heart because I knew that we had an opportunity to do something that was right for us.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so our marriage don't look like it. I mean, nothing about our life look, it goes against the grain. Everything goes against the grain. We didn't date. Like who's who does that?

SPEAKER_04

Right, right. Not anybody else that I know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

You know, you propose three months, get married, have a baby, get called to ministry, and and it's gone. We all from there. I mean, that whole thing just, you know, was against the grain. And so um, I think the beginning of that really set the stage.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So a lot of the challenges that we would have had or should have had, we avoided just from taking heed to good wisdom.

Conflict Styles, Boundaries, And Respect

SPEAKER_04

I mean, for real. Because a lot of people, a lot of people don't get that type of wisdom. Right. And they're they're told, you know, that these are the things that every marriage needs to have. And and there are some things that every marriage we need to, we need the we need the foundation of love. You know what I'm saying? And there's there's some other things in there too, and trust and all those things, but no marriage is gonna look exactly like the next. Exactly. And I I feel like that's the one of the most important things that people need to really understand is you are unique, your your spouse is unique, and the two of you have to figure out what works for the two of you. Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I don't know that we were given that advice. Oh I can't say that we were given that advice. So it's it took it took us a while to figure out that it didn't have to look like other people's. Oh, yeah. One of the most dangerous things that I see probably in social media today is that our youth look at other couples and they say, These are goals. Yes. These are goals. That is dangerous. You don't know what that couple has had to go through to get there. Seriously. Because just because it looks good on the outside does not mean that they haven't had those struggles. And so when you talk about looking to someone for a healthy marriage, you gotta know what comes along with that. And so I think it's it's cute to say, oh, these are goals, this is this is what I'm looking forward to. However, it's all the in-between stuff.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Stuff you don't see. Yeah. Between the wheels. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Because people look good. I'm telling you, social media, you look at some of these people, and it's like, we we the new hottest thing. And a year from then, it's like she's not in the pictures no more.

SPEAKER_04

Like what happens?

SPEAKER_00

And they just bowed out gracefully and keep it moving. That that um that foundation is key. Shout out to Pastor Steven Richardson, Jordan Temple.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

He laid it out, you know, and he's one of those guys, he's just gonna tell you like it is. He didn't sugarcoat it. He literally was like, y'all in a good spot, y'all ain't got nothing. Which means everything you get from now, you get to create together. And I took that to heart. Like that, that for me, it made so much sense. Because, and even now, 22 years in, people just cannot fathom the thought that we have a marriage the way we do. And we do.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So when I say stuff like, I don't argue. Oh, everybody are no. Jesus Christ. I'm telling you. Now, do we have debates? Let me not front. Like, of course. Debates and, you know, heated conversation or whatever. But flat out arguing and knocking stuff off, man. Please, I'm not doing all of that. That's not that's not your makeup.

SPEAKER_04

I love that you don't that you have not let anything take you out of character. Cause I have a couple times that needs towards you. I gave people what they wanted, you know? He didn't say, we don't argue. Okay. He said, he don't argue. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

One way to break all. I don't even need to talk to you.

SPEAKER_04

But you're gonna hear what I got to say. But he has something with that though. Because he does not argue, it has made me not want to argue. Because I look pretty dumb, Martin. It takes two people to argue.

SPEAKER_02

I remember that Sunday.

SPEAKER_04

He has that part. He has a posture that says, we're gonna fix this, but we're gonna fix it a different way. Because what you're not gonna do is we're not gonna be getting loud. We're not gonna be cussing each other out. We're not gonna hit below the belt. We just not, we're not going to do that. That part.

SPEAKER_00

Here's the grace. When you understand who God gave you and you have the grace to deal with her, I let her. That's her. Go ahead and huff and puff and stomp. Get it out. You know, blow the house down.

SPEAKER_04

So you just told the world and I huff and puff and stomp.

SPEAKER_01

You know what it's bad. But you didn't blow the house down. You think you missed the man that much.

SPEAKER_00

You know it's bad when you hit dishes.

SPEAKER_02

What's wrong with you? Nothing.

SPEAKER_00

And I let her get it out. And when she done, it's like, all right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I was you. She's not moved. Here's the thing, she don't argue. I be saying that like this. She, and that's her unbothered. Or better yet, irritating me mood.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, because she I I was bothered.

SPEAKER_02

I just bothered because she's not.

SPEAKER_04

And that's and that's another thing Pastor Richardson told us. He said, I don't care what type of situation you're gonna get in. You're going to have situations. Yes. But what you cannot do is hit below the belt because it's hard to come back from that. Period. For real. So many. That for me, I would rather. So Sam and I would uh have disagreements and you know arguments sometimes. And he's the one that's like rah-rah rah, all the things. And I'm sitting there like, I'm I I don't I don't want to do this. Like, I don't there we can talk, but right now, like, I don't have words that aren't hurtful. So I'm just gonna be quiet because if I say any of the words that are running through my head, I can't come back from that. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? And I and I'm and I and I'm gonna hurt, I'm gonna hurt you and harm our relationship more than I want, more than I just don't desire to do that. And that takes wisdom and patience.

SPEAKER_00

That takes wisdom.

SPEAKER_04

And a lot of Jesus.

SPEAKER_03

Right, holy ghosts.

SPEAKER_00

Help me, a certain level of accountability to yourself. A lot of people just what's the word? Snap off, pop off, pop off, and you done said all of this stuff, and the Bible says, be slow to speak, quick to listen.

SPEAKER_04

Listen, that is true.

SPEAKER_00

And so we when we get in these places, we get heated and we just because we want to get it out. You want to get it out, and you don't know that you just destroyed Job's spouse.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so you gotta bounce back from that. And so that's that's key, what you said. Just be able to, I would rather you not say nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, roll your eyes at me and don't say nothing than to say something.

SPEAKER_01

No, you gotta say something to me.

SPEAKER_00

Cause I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02

You gotta say something. I need something. And a lot of times that's why the escalation takes place. I ain't got nothing to say. That's full of you get something to do. What you thinking about? What you thinking about?

SPEAKER_04

Say it.

SPEAKER_02

Nothing. So you're telling me my time and energy and effort in this conversation means nothing to you. So now I'm in another level. You know, and and shout out to Passi. It's a closed mic.

SPEAKER_03

I love you.

Security, Rejection, And Healing Together

SPEAKER_02

Love you, Pass. Love you. But uh, but yeah, it it it it yeah, mm-hmm. I was a robber, I was a furniture mover. And but at the same time, there was the problem with it is because what I hear from you two is you both were secure in who you were. You knew who you were, you knew where you where you stood.

SPEAKER_04

I was gonna put my finger up too.

SPEAKER_00

I was more secure.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um, but again, that's my makeup. I'm just built different. It's crazy. But I I am. I just I understood when I made these decisions, it's like I was raised that as a man, you make a decision, you live with it. You know what I'm saying? Whatever the repercussions are, you hit you take that. And so I made decisions, and that was it. When I made up my mind I was getting married, won't nobody gonna talk me out of it. Made up my mind I wasn't gonna auger. I made up my mind, you know, I was gonna be the best father to my children that I could be. All of those things um kind of make me who I am. And so I was I was just in that space. My wife, on the other hand, it was certain things like should I do this? What's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_04

His security made me secure, if that makes sense. Okay. Okay, and the reason being, and I just said this previously, I grew up with two fathers. Because of that, people may say, Oh, you had two fathers, that's great. But I dealt with rejection on both ends. Oh, wow. And because of that rejection, it spilled over into my marriage. Absolutely. Though he didn't do it, it was the you're a man, and all of y'all think like this. So no meant the house was about to burn down. It was World War III for me. Say that what it means. It was World War III for me. I could not hear the word no or not yet, or we don't have it. It was like it just triggered me, and so there was a sense of insecurity in myself because of the love that I needed and the security that I needed from my fathers that I looked to him to give me, which wasn't fair to him because he wasn't them. Yeah. And so when it comes to being secure, I found my security just by watching how secure that he was. That's good.

SPEAKER_00

That is because I realized I had the grace. You do just like she had the grace to deal with you, because you know, she could have cussed you out.

SPEAKER_02

At that time, I'm in love as she did. I was really, I was really sick.

SPEAKER_04

I was the trouble, wanted me to just respond. And I'm just like, I'm not going to do this. And there were a couple of times where I gave in, and I just felt horrible after because I'm just like, this is not even who I am. Yeah. But I allowed somebody else to take me out of my character, and now I have to live with the consequences of that. And it just didn't feel good. Yeah. So I can count on one hand, maybe two fingers, how many times I've allowed, you know, myself to just be out of pocket. And I was like, I don't, I don't want to do that anymore. Right. So I've got to find a different way. And so he he would tell me, he was like, listen, because I have words then, and it took me about two weeks to get words, right? Because I needed to make sure that I was calm and I sorted through all my feelings. That's good. And he was like, listen, you can't come to me two weeks after something done happened and then want to bring it back up because I done moved on. Right. He like, you got 48 hours. And I was like, how you gonna tell me? And I'm like, okay, I see his point. I need to do it quicker. So I I think I've gotten to better than 48 hours now. But at the beginning, it was like, all right, let me at least start with trying to get it together in a week. But it but you have to train yourself to get sort through your emotions differently.

SPEAKER_00

So that's good. Where do you think that comes from?

SPEAKER_04

No, you're not the host. Don't answer. No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

We're conversing. We're feeling it, we're feeling it. You really know, man. You can answer the question. What you want to say, right?

SPEAKER_00

No, where where does that come from? Like, is that just an individual makeup? Is that a learned behavior, in your opinion? Because you know, yeah, you said something key, you took the two-week process, and Sam, like, no, like you got six hours. Like, you need to tell me right away what's going on. But that type of thing, you know, we have to kind of identify that. And so I was just wondering, like, where did that come from?

SPEAKER_04

I feel like it's it's it comes from a couple places. One, I grew up in a house with two-parent household, and my parents, you know, they they argued a argued a lot. And so I didn't want, like, I didn't like it. And so, like, we even got to the point where me and my uh sister, who's two years older than me, we would, we, we talked to, we took mom aside and was like, you know, mama, like, y'all be arguing a lot. You see this coming. Can you just like, you know, now as adults, we as adults, I'm like, oof, we asked a whole lot of mama to be able to like not say what she wanted to say, but she still chose to deal with him differently, and their arguments kind of calmed down a whole lot, but because she chose a different way to deal with it. So I think that was part of it. Like, I I'd never liked arguing, but the other part of it was I know myself and I know myself well enough to know that my words can cut. And so I never want to harm people with my words. That's good. That's really good. And so, like, that that is the other part of it. So I look, I pray a lot. I believe you. If people knew the stuff that went through my head like that, they'd be like, ooh, Valeria. I'd be like, listen, I'm I pray it's hard, and I um I am very slow to speak because I just don't want to harm people with my words. And that's not to say that I haven't, but I do my best not to do that intentionally. I love that.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I was just wondering.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for answering. You could be the host of me.

SPEAKER_04

Feel free to ask any questions. Did you have something you wanted to add to that?

Communication Windows And Emotional Processing

SPEAKER_02

Or or I need a whole lot of help. That was all I have. It took uh what, two separations and 15 years to get to the point where I was like, all right, all this. I mean, that's like a separation was, I mean, you know, in the past, you know, we talked about this in the inner in our in our episodes, but uh, you know, you really the biggest thing is is either you'd come in, in this case, you'd come in knowing, because the fact that you knew that she is your primary responsibility, yeah, I knew that, but I didn't accept it. I knew that I was supposed to love my wife as Christ loved the church, but I just didn't accept. I didn't accept a whole lot of responsibilities, but I didn't mind being in the marriage. But uh, you know, but when you're not, also I carried a lot of stuff from the past, like you was unbothered. Oh no, I'll I'll bother, or I see some things, can't comment on things, so I find other ways to release or and it wasn't always great, or I just be isolated, or just like I kind of just avoid, and I carried it in. And so then when I and so for me, when we be having those uh highly intellectual aggressive debates, all of those went together.

SPEAKER_04

We call it heated fellowships, heated fellowships, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Um I think that was my time of really expressing my feelings because in the one I've, you know, even though I'm married, I didn't feel like I was love. I didn't feel like I had an open place to be where I'm at, like today. I could say, hey, you know, we just had a moment, I got caught. She asked the question. But we had the open vulnerability to talk. But that took, but see the fact that it seemed like at least from your side, I'm sitting in the atmosphere right now, so you go. And like you said, I have grace. Okay, go ahead. King cling, cling, cling, cling, cling. All right, now, this is what we're gonna do. Absolutely. I didn't really provide that space, and if she did, I didn't recognize the space. Because my spaces were and that's all I knew, and that and now that comes resolution, and so but now the resolution is we done on to the next one, on to the next thing, you know, you know, that's that's strong, and I think that statement that you made will help a lot of people because there are a lot of people that's that's married but not engaged in any marriage, yeah, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00

And so you feel that's interesting, even to say I'm married, but I don't even feel like I had somebody. You know what I'm saying? Like that's a strong statement. And for you to be able to say, hey, this is where I started, well, this is why you guys have a podcast. For you to say that's how I started, and then over the years we went through all of this stuff, and so now we've created a space and environment where I can say, you know, I need to talk about this, and it's like, come on, let's talk. Yeah like that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_04

It it it is because we have we have learned one each other's love languages, and we've we've learned through counseling how to communicate with one another. That was one of our key uh things. We were talking a whole lot, but we weren't understanding each other. We just talked the fucking. Oh, it was it was we were having so much so much so much discourse, but we wasn't coming away with no understanding of the other. Right. And so it just caused so much conflict and you know, pent up, you know, just a lot of Hiroshima's. Okay, a lot of Hiroshima. Hiroshimas, and then you know, the mountain that it was rolling down. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of Mount St. Ellens. And the Hills, oh here come the ads.

SPEAKER_04

But I thank God that we are at this place now where we can find the lily in the belly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then live the in the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04

Hey, hey, it's over here.

SPEAKER_01

It's over here.

SPEAKER_04

All right. So so let me let me let me kind of shift the conversation and ask a question about um, I know that you all have dealt with a lot of um grief. Um, and I don't know that I like the word loss.

SPEAKER_00

Transition.

SPEAKER_04

That's a much better word. So um you've dealt with several transitions in while while married. How have you all been able to navigate that and give each other space for your grief and then be able to know when to come in and know when to draw back? How have you navigated that? That's loaded. Um I think for me, understanding that he has the right to grieve, okay?

SPEAKER_00

Right, because my mom was first.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so we don't know the order. My mom transitioned uh 2011. 2011.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

God was so faithful that he didn't give me a mother-in-law, he gave me another mother.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Her mom was just like my mom.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

To the point where when I went to her restaurant, they thought I was the one that belonged to her. She was me.

SPEAKER_04

I was in-law. Oh, why I had to correct people and say, that's my mother. Wow. But being an only child and being a girl, she always wanted a son to the point where I was supposed to be a boy. That's another story for another day.

SPEAKER_00

But this lady, um, I'm talking about. Though you wasn't born in this era. Right.

SPEAKER_04

Um, you want to finish or you want me to finish? No, this, so this lady.

SPEAKER_00

But I just want to get a precursor. Okay. This lady really, you know what I'm saying, like loved me like a son.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So when my mom transitioned, you know, I didn't miss a beat. Cause Mama Clara just, she fell right in, you know what I mean? Like, boom. I got you, baby. But three years after my mom passed, Mama Clara passed. And so she's she's going on how to deal with Greece with your spouse from my perspective, because I was first. Got it.

SPEAKER_04

And because he was always that, he's a manly man.

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh.

Grief, Loss, And Giving Space

SPEAKER_04

So he wasn't really emotional, didn't do a whole lot of crying. Church, yes. Yeah. But just on the surface, he just did not. And so when he lost his mom, I saw a different side of him, of course. Being the only boy, the oldest child. Now, you know, his sister Candace, she was 22. You know Candace. She was 22. And we had to like take her in and show her life because she was the baby girl. They're 13 years apart. So for her, it felt like she was an only child. So, you know, um, having to navigate that space. And I think what did it was, and this is gonna sound really weird, I did not understand how to navigate grief as a wife until I lost my own mother. Because my mom was around and she loved him and he loved her so much, I would say things like, when his mom transitioned, well, my mom transitioned too. Reality said I can still pick up the phone and call mine. He couldn't do that. And I didn't understand the heaviness in that grief until it was my turn. So I literally had to, when my mom transitioned, I went back to him and I apologized. That's good. And I I apologized because I said I didn't know this level of pain until it hit my heart. So I'm sorry for not giving you the space to grieve properly the way you needed to. Wow. Because I kept trying to almost force him to see that we've had a lot. Together, like you're not in this by yourself. And he was saying, Okay, I understand that we're not in it by ourselves, but reality says your mama's still up the street. Right. And you can still pick up the phone and call her, and she can still come over. Even though she's coming over for both, you gotta understand it from my perspective. I didn't see that. So I had to apologize when my mom passed to say I didn't understand it. And so you know this now from the transition of your father, and we say this all the time. You don't really understand grief on that level until you're going through it. Period. You just don't. Period. It's hard to explain to a person. You can't explain it to somebody who has not who has not walked that path. Exactly. Because even though everybody's experience is different, there are some things that are universal. And Sam lost his father 10 years almost to the to the day of when the same day, I think she's your mother said.

SPEAKER_02

I want to say 10 They both died on, they both died on the same day.

SPEAKER_04

April, April 10th, 10 years apart. Really? And um, and that so he lost his father, and his father was very young. His father's 59. So it was like, whoa, wait, huh? What's happening? And my father was 83, and so we had a longer time, but I we were actually separated when his father passed. So we separated twice. So our first separation, his father passed during that time, and I said to myself, how would you want somebody to show up for you? Yes, you're separated, he's still your husband.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You still love him. You loved his father, his father loved you. How would you want him to show up for you if it if you were in his shoes? Yeah. And so I did my best to show up for him, and I'll let you, if you want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, she did. Um for me, handling grief is kind of weird. Sometimes I think I'm not human sometimes. You're going to die. It's inevitable. So that is literally what he says all the time. I'll be like, I mean, you know, I'm gonna die, you're gonna die, we all gonna die. Now, you know, you know, the spiritual way is where you want to go up or down. That's the thing, you know. The choice is yours.

SPEAKER_04

You know, it's so black and white.

SPEAKER_02

But like, I remember uh my mom told me to say, hey, your dad, your dad wouldn't you come pray for him? I was like, all right, on the way, dad. I said, Lord, if this is his time, just give me strength.

unknown

Prepare.

SPEAKER_02

Now, were they married at the time? Yeah, they were married, they were they was already, yeah, my parents. Okay. My parents was always in there. Um, so I did grow up, I did grow up in a uh uh two-parent household. Um, but yeah, I was on the way and I was like, well, that, well, God, I can't control your time frame. If this is it, let there be peace. Let me move forward because at the end of the day, I can't say, keep him being. Hey, look, you you brought him in, you take him out. Wow. So what am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_04

I mean, I I always cringe because I just be like, dang, that is so. But when his father passed, like, he grief, he his grief was very different than I expected. Because I expected, like, you know, like tears. Like, I feel like you were you were trying to get him to maybe like, okay, calm down his grief. I was trying to get him to like emotes and and and and and have grief that I could see. So I could know that he was grieving.

SPEAKER_02

Like even during that separation. If she didn't come over, okay. Came to the funeral. That was the one time. My breakdown was when I saw him in the cassie. That was it. Everybody thought my mom was gonna go. Nope. I went. I'm the one broke down. Then I think the rest of that day after that, life move on. Wow. And literally, life moved on for him.

SPEAKER_04

And not that he doesn't stop and talk about him and think about it and all those things, but like it's just something switches in him. It's the way he processes grief. Yeah. And we all do it differently. Very differently. I'm I'm a very in-your-face type of griever. Like I can be sitting here and just, I don't like the way it feels when I cry over my mom. So I suppressed it for a long time. And he used to say, girl, cry. Right. Like that was your mama. You was the only child. You had her for 37 years cry. But because I didn't like the way it made me feel, I was like, I don't want to cry. He's like, why?

unknown

Cry.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And we kind of went through the similar things with age. Since mom was 54. Wow. My mom was 64. Gotcha. But my father passed last year. He was 87. Got it. So the way I grieve my parents looks different because of the age. Yes. And my mom wasn't sick. She was at work one day and her heart just stopped the next. Like, no high blood pressure, no issues. She had just gone to the doctor. They told her she was very healthy. Wow. And I just equate that to it was her time, and that was it. My dad, 87, went through those stages of dementia to eventually. I had to watch him decline. So it's different. Yeah. It's different. And the way we sh um operate in our marriage with grief, the spaces were different. Like he literally had to carry me through, my mom. Yeah. With my dad, he didn't have to carry me through so much with him. It was more so struggles with family. Got it. With his children. Because I was not biologically his. Got it.

unknown

Got it.

SPEAKER_02

So everyone, everyone deal with grief differently. And the thing about grief, and it and it's what's more important is like you said, given the space for that person to grieve.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, like um, I know quite a few friends who lost their fathers. And you know, a lot of times, you know, I say, man, I, you know, you call them up, first and foremost, I don't know what you and literally, every time, I don't even know what to say. Because my parents are here, so what? How am I going to turn around and say, hey, man, I feel your pain. No, I don't. I don't. That is one of the worst things of the world. I don't know your pain.

SPEAKER_04

But even if you've lost a parent, or the same you still don't know my pain because you didn't have the relationship I had with my parents.

SPEAKER_02

I can equate with you because, but, you know, I can equate with you because I lost my father too, but my how your relationships, I don't know. Exactly. Very different. So I can't cross that line. But as as far as I know how I grieve, but I'm always good for people when they look when they ain't going through. I can attest to that. Like when she when she was crying, I was like, just cry. Like you said, just cry. And she would cry for other people that died. Like it was a zero, it was a zero cry.

SPEAKER_04

I'm very empathetic.

SPEAKER_02

No, ain't no more. Come on. What's going on that we need to talk about?

SPEAKER_04

Do we need to have a different company? So empathetic. Yeah. But you also know what's going on. But he also has like the one thing I told him, and and you all might be able to relate to this. When so I went to a large church growing up. So a lot of those people have been transitioning over the last five years. So I've lost more people, and not just COVID, but just people just people leaving here because it's their time to leave here. And they've been transitioning back to back to back to back to back to back to back. And I'm just like, all these people were a part of the fabric of my life and shaping who I am today. It's not just, you know, it's sister so-and-so that did this for me. It's brother so-and-so who's impacted me in this way. It's, you know, along with my dad, and along with, you know, it's okay. I'm like that with my mother's siblings. Okay. My mother was the 15th of 18. Did you say 15 of 18? My dad. My body. My biological dad was the 15th of 15. With the baby. That's what it sounds like.

SPEAKER_03

Their purpose was to was to be fruit.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, they bore fruit. Yes. My mother was the 15th out of 18 children. Out of those 18, there are two left. Wow. No, three left. Um, my mom's baby sister, a sister that's right over her, and then I have an uncle that's in his 80s who has dementia. Wow. So I understand that dynamic because it's like the fabric of who I am is leaving. Yes. And now it's up to us as cousins, who now we the aunties and uncles, to try to carry on this generation, and we do a horrible job. We've done a horrible job. Like, yeah. I don't think these, I don't think our generation got it the way our aunts and our parents got it. That community part of family. It's different. It is very different. It's different.

SPEAKER_02

It is different. And one thing I'm I just keep in my mind or keep hearing is that, you know, when it comes to, there's a history, and when they pass, they become legacy. So you gotta look at how you transition. Man, that's part of my history, but now it's a legacy, so how do I carry?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We're not taught to carry legacy. Um we we've dropped the ball in so many areas.

unknown

Uh-uh.

Community As A Lifeline

SPEAKER_00

Um, especially when you start talking about those generals in our families and matriarchs, patriarchs of the family. Once they start transitioning, it's like we got all of this legacy, so now what we do with it, and we get caught up in well, I ain't calling everybody to come. Hey, we ain't having we ain't having Thanksgiving at my house. Right. And the next thing you know, you go five years and see nobody.

SPEAKER_04

That's the truth. That's the truth. That's the truth. So if you had to, if you all had to talk to somebody and tell them how to navigate grief with your spouse, what are some of the things that you would share? Like just key nuggets. Well, give them give them grace to grieve. There is a grace to grieving. And when I say grace, I don't mean there's a right way and a wrong way. There's a healthy way.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And you gotta give them grace to grieve the way they feel like they need to grieve in order to get through the journey.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Because grief is a journey as well.

unknown

It is.

SPEAKER_04

It is not just um, it's not a moment. Right. It is not. It's not a moment. And I I say that all the time when I'm doing grief counseling. Like, it's not a moment, it's a journey. It's not something that you turn on and turn off because you want to, but you gotta go through that journey and that process because in Sam's words, it it's inevitable. It will never go away. Grief will be with you your entire life. So go through it with grace, give your give your spouse grace and know that it's a journey, and you get to go through that journey with them.

SPEAKER_00

And even that's that's you know, the the the going through the journey, because when you've never been there, that makes it different. And so, because my mom transitioned first, there was a lot that I had to deal with that I knew she didn't understand. Um, my mom first got diagnosed, they told me like she has three moments. And a part of me felt like, nah, because my mom is a woman of faith.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And we got all these books, she was at living word, and we got all these faith to heal books. And my godfather pulled me to the side, and he said something to me that just changed my whole thought process about how we view things. He says, whenever you pray that God's will be done, because we always say that we just want God's will to be done. God's will is what I want, but we never ask God to prepare us for whatever that will be. Okay. And so I'm believing God to heal my mom.

SPEAKER_04

Right, on this side. On this side. On this side.

SPEAKER_00

But he told me, he says, son, he said, we believe in God. But you also need to ask God to prepare you for whatever his will is. Because if it doesn't go the way you think it's gonna go, you're gonna be a wreck. And so I had three months to really deal with preparing myself for whatever God's will is. And I I don't think we and I'm I'm just being very transparent. We never asked God to prepare us for his will. And so when it happened, that's why you got people climbing in the cask. Right. But when you understand if we're gonna trust God, we gotta trust God all the way.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Does that does that exclude us from having moments and hurt and the pain? No, the humanity. But you gotta know, and so that I was dealing with that and she had no idea, you know what I'm saying? And so uh I was having moments while she was in the hospital. Um, but she didn't know that. Because I'm thinking to myself, what if this is not real?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so, but even thinking about that, the reality, once that reality hit, that that hit me in a way that you know I I've never been shook like that. That that I'm talking about, that shook me. Like, I don't think I went to work for a month. Like, they called me, like, do you still work here? Like, give you your your grief time, but you like three weeks past that. Like, what's going on? Yeah, I'm like, I don't want to go, you know, that it just it just shook me. Yeah. And she did the best she could with supporting me, but because she didn't understand, it was just hard. And I think um that space thing is key because at the end of the day, as much as you saying, baby, what you need, what you need, what you need, I don't know what I need. Right. So just be my wife.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, cuz what because what I what I really feel like I need is my mom back. Exactly. That's it. And and I know that I can't have that. Right. And so the space thing is important in a marriage as it pertains to grief, because your role or your responsibility is just be there. I'm gonna give you the space to cry and grieve and fall out and do all the things that you need to do without the all right, that's enough, or that's okay, or your time is up. No, let me give you the space, and it is my job to say, you want some water? Did you eat today? You got a headache? Okay, let's go take a let's go get some air. Let's get out the house. Like those moments, you don't think that in a marriage it makes a difference, but it makes a difference. Yeah. Because it's just showing that I'm there.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Like I don't I don't need you to say the right things. I just need you to be there. Yeah. And that's it.

SPEAKER_02

During her journey, um, and I agree because when my dad died, I was like, uh. But again, I already prayed. Hey, if this is it, listen, hey, all right, who am I to tell you now you're wrong?

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_02

You're God. So I was in a different place uh with that, but when it came to her, I said, okay, I've been there, but I deal with life differently. I view life differently. She is not me. She don't view things like me. She don't see, perceive, or see things, or experiencing things like me. So I was like, well, Lord, this is your daughter. Just show me what I need to do.

SPEAKER_04

That's good.

SPEAKER_02

Because you know her. You know her on a deeper level than me. You know the heart. And so, whatever you have me, whatever you need me to do, Lord. And that's even through marriage, even I say, hey, I would just be going through the store and say, here's some flour. Okay. Because I don't know what this is gonna do. I don't know what this is for. But I know he said, do. And so when it when she came to her grief, I'm just like, hey. And even then, that came to a point, I say, I feel like she's about to cry. And she does. And then I'm like, there are times we just be netflixing and chilling, something comes on, pause. You alright? Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_04

That never goes away. I am not.

SPEAKER_00

And then I know this is gonna happen. Are you alright? The difference between me and my wife is I don't suppress nothing. And I'm a I'm a I'm a real man and all of that, and all, but when I feel it, it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, we've been in the movies, lost it. I don't even remember what movie, but a couple of a couple of them movies, I lost it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like I had to leave the theater.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But that was my moment. I got it out. Once I got it out, I'm good.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I don't, I, I just, I'm not built. Let me get it out. If I hear a song, if I see anything, I I get it out. Her, on the other hand, she, err, you know, be a man. Like, don't cry. Don't cry. And I'm like, listen, this is my healthy way of grieving.

SPEAKER_04

I have learned that. So now I don't suppress at all anymore. Therapy has helped me. Man, I'ma tell y'all something. Like, this church that we are, you know, a part of. Mm-hmm. I ain't cried. I've cried more in the past, we've been listening 2019, in the past six, I've cried more in the last six years than I've cried my entire life. Because I was the person. I was like, I used to be the person like, um, what we crying for? Get it together. You know, get it together. We got stuff to do. Ain't nobody got time for that.

SPEAKER_02

I need to cry.

SPEAKER_04

Get it together. But it's funny that you say that about our church. Because they saved us many of Mother Days. Mother's Day was.

SPEAKER_00

Shout out to Lifeline Church. Lifeline system of churches.

SPEAKER_04

They saved us. The mothers are were just like, because my last encounter with my mother was at Lifeline. Oh, wow. She passed the week before, the week after Thanksgiving. And so she came to a night of Thanksgiving with us. Oh, wow. To church. And then that Tuesday, she transitioned. Gotcha. And so to be in church with her that that Thursday, so all the mothers knew. So walking through the door on Mother's Day was like, I want to crawl under a rock, but I'm going to walk literally into all of the, like they just knew. We didn't have to say anything for years. They just would be like, come here, give me a hug.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Sometimes they didn't even have to be a Mother's Day. They would just, by way of Holy Ghost, they would just see it. Yeah. And come here. Come here, son. Give me a hug. I know you miss her. It's alright.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And it's a rap from now.

SPEAKER_00

Those hugs, you definitely need a community like that. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

Your community is important.

SPEAKER_00

Transition. Because our our when when her mom passed that next year, I think that's when we shut the church down.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

And well, that's a whole nother story.

SPEAKER_04

I was gonna say, we didn't even touch on that. We'll come back to that though.

SPEAKER_00

So when we transitioned, you know, to Lifeline, my wife. Was like zombie fied. Like she was like I was done. And we sat for a year, and they literally, every Sunday, they just walked my wife through this grief until she got on her feet.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And um, that was incredible. That is. That was incredible.

SPEAKER_04

And because I've never experienced that before, because you feel like people don't have to be nice. My mom used to say that to me all the time. People don't have to be nice, and they definitely don't have to be nice to you. That part. So the fact that they took time out of their lives to say, I can't replace her, but if you need a mama to talk to, I'm here.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I can't cook like her, but if you need some nana pudding, I got you. Like all of the all of the things. And so I didn't call this. Yeah. I thank God for having fillers. Yeah. Not replacements. Right. But fillers. That when I'm having a mama moment, I can just pick up the phone and just say, hey, I just want to hear your voice because I'm missing my mama today. Yeah. And so I just need a little wisdom. I love that. I love that and I love community. Yeah. Because that's really what it is. It's community. Like our the one, the slogan, don't do life alone, you know? Absolutely. And it and it's important that we aren't on an island by ourselves because when we, if you, if you are not a part of a community or if you don't engage with the community, when things happen, people can't surround you because they don't even know that there, that there's a need. That's right. Because you haven't engaged. So I I want I want people to know. Find you a community. A faith community that you can be a part of that will embrace you and that you can embrace to so that when things happen, and not just bad things, but celebrate with you. That will, that will, that will, that will, they'll cheer for you. They'll, you know, and when when it's time to grieve, they'll grieve with you. You know what I'm saying? And help walk you through that. That's that's so important. It is. And I I feel like a lot of people miss that because they don't have, whether it's a church community or a friend community, but you just need to have community.

SPEAKER_00

Time out for doing life by yourself. Yeah. Is is just, you know, who wants to do that? Like, think about that. I don't. Can you imagine just getting up every day? You have nobody to do life with. You can't go call get call somebody and go get coffee or go to lunch or, you know, talk to why talk about sports or whatever. Just, and that was never God's intent. And so, especially as believers, we we just that we shouldn't even accept that. Like, it was never God's intent for us to be by ourselves.

SPEAKER_02

Right. I understand. Sam now. No, no, seriously. I passed, and I on the other hand, I didn't mind being by myself. No, I'm but what but was it good and healthy for you? Uh depending. Depending, because one, well, I think the reason I didn't mind being by myself, I was afraid to get in trouble when I was younger. Because the way it made my household, man, you know what? I I'm just not gonna risk it. Now I did try. I'm not gonna risk it. I'm done. Don't risk it, doc. It ain't worth it. It ain't worth it. And then when, you know, when when I got the permission to be, to test the waters, I'm like, okay, it's a little cold and I just feel this other wave in here. You know what? That's riptide. I don't want to get, I'm just gonna swim on back. But when I finally, uh, even though I, you know, we came from one church to another, it was really being a lifeline that really let me know the importance of community. And the biggest thing, and I want to piggyback on what Valeria said, that yes, being a part of the community is important. You need that community, but also be open to be a part of that community. You could be in the community and not in the community. Because I was good at being in the community and not in the community. I wore a mask to make it look like I'm a part of the community, but this I just don't want you bothering me. So I could look like I'm a part of the community, but not a part of the community. You weren't really engaging. I'm not engaging with you. And I have my reasons, okay. You don't call me, so why should I call you?

SPEAKER_04

But it didn't nobody call nobody.

SPEAKER_02

Because I don't know nobody. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

Ain't nobody getting no calls.

SPEAKER_02

Well there, I call you, leave a message, one, two, three, four, five times. Okay, no what? This is not community. But when we see each other in the community building, hey, and I'll tell you, hey, I called you three times last week. Oh man. It ain't look as good like it. Because it's like, but then even in the midst of that, yes, it is important to have community. But you have to be ready, because if you're introverted or you just like, you know, I don't want to deal with people, you gotta ask yourself, then then ask God to lead you to that community that's gonna help you out. Or it's okay, like, or be like, I ain't gonna lie, being part of my media squad ministry and uh community update uh team, then let me be myself, my married my wife, but it took years because the first community, if you're married, is here. If you can't be open here, right. Yeah, yeah. And then almost, you know, we had uh there was a couple times I was gonna be a damn man hanging from the news, but praise God.

SPEAKER_04

Not by me, people, no.

SPEAKER_02

Not by me, but I'm talking about like, well, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I go extreme in my divorce. That's what I'm talking about. And then it was like, let's be clear. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. That wasn't her. No, but ultimately, if you the biggest thing is to be a part of the community, you had to be open to community.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And you had to be in a position to say, okay, I'm not gonna wear no mask. And and again, shout out to Lifeline. The first time I went there and I saw a group of men hug another man, and that man, the pastor, cried. That was enough for me to say, okay, I need to be a part of this place because I didn't feel like a place I could cry. And then the brotherhood, and even then, I still, you know, okay, I'm like, cool, cool. Cause you know, I ain't too cool. Cause nothing, like the ditty.

SPEAKER_03

No diddy.

SPEAKER_01

No diddy. No diddy at all.

SPEAKER_03

But I'm gonna say this.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

Practical Keys For Grieving With Your Spouse

SPEAKER_02

If you, if you, if you, like in my case, didn't really know what love is, then you don't know, and here's the thing love is so broad, but it has uh specific based on who you do that love's for. There's a friend love, there's the marital love, there's the brother love, there's a sister love. It's still a part of the love, but if you don't know what love is, like the song, I don't know what love is, I wanna know what love is.

SPEAKER_04

We do not own the rights of the music.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And so um, I have to learn a lot. And I'm not gonna say I'm fully there, but I will say this. Y'all hugs, help the brother. I love you. I ain't gonna even lie. I mean, I mean, I I would tell I was gonna say this is a testimony right now. Uh-oh. Testify. You, and I ain't gonna say all the brothers don't do it, but when you come, like when you say you, you, you make your way, Sam, and I see you, you will make your way to give me a hug. You will that right there is just like wow. Now I know that's love is. Absolutely. Because there are times I go always to the brothers, but when I see a brother coming for the brother, it makes a difference. It makes a difference.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And those are the things that moves me. I love that one. So thank you, brother.

SPEAKER_00

No problem. We spent plenty of days on that stage on Austin Drive in that corner. Hey, I ain't been to the title now yet, so I don't know what it's gonna look like next week.

SPEAKER_04

Let's set. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Pressed into Purpose. We will see you next time on the next episode of Pressed into Purpose.

SPEAKER_02

A thought came to my mind when you were talking, and the fact that, and the reason the thought came to my mind because of your response to the action. Did do you feel that there, even though you love God, but do you feel that there was a battle between who was first in your life? Was it God or was your mom? Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

That's heavy. So anyone that knows me, my mama was my everything. And I would dare to say that though I had a relationship with God, my relationship with my mama was stronger because she was my voice of God for a long time. She was the voice of God in my life for a very long time. So I did not even know how to build relationship with God as it pertained to grief because she wasn't here. Everything that ever, that's good, Sam. Wow. Everything that ever happened in my life, I called her. She was the one that pushed me back to God. I couldn't calm her down.

SPEAKER_02

You have no choice now.

SPEAKER_04

I have a choice. So now I gotta go to God for myself, and I had to carve out what that looked like for me. It didn't make sense. So now wow, that's really good. That's a really good question. No, because I never really looked at it. He asked it, you had a mediator. She was she was the voice, she was the she was the voice of God on earth for me.