Ashy Hands to Wedding Rings - Darian and LaToya Abrams Share Their Reconnection Journey - PIP S2 E4

We sit down with Minister Darien Abrams and Dr. Toya Abrams to talk through divorce, healing, and what it takes to build a healthy remarriage with faith at the center. We get practical about selflessness, safe communication, blended-family wisdom, and the tools that help love last when real life shows up. 

• Darien’s first marriage lessons around selfishness, consideration, and pride 
• How divorce sparks self-reflection and a serious healing journey 
• Mentors, therapy, conferences, and faith as healing tools 
• Reconnecting after 17 years and rebuilding trust as adults 
• Old heartbreak and guardedness showing up in new relationships 
• Introducing a new partner to a child with care and boundaries 
• Chronic illness, vulnerability, and learning to tell the truth 
• Hyper-independence, shared responsibility, and feeling valued 
• Apology languages, changed behavior, and receiving an apology 
• Hearing God’s voice through Scripture, prayer, and quiet time 
• Being equally yoked as spiritual balance, not a money metric 
• Advice for marrying someone divorced, including hard conversations early 

Thanks for listening! 

Until next time, continue to press into your purpose!

You can watch the video and Subscribe on Youtube.com @PressedIntoPurpose or learn more about our host at ValeriaWright.com

Transcript

Welcome And Meet The Guests

SPEAKER_07 0:03

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Pressed into Purpose. I am your host, Valeria Bright, and I'm so glad that you joined us today. Today I have a co- my co-host with me, Samuel William Wright III, my wonderful husband. Glad to have you in the building.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

I'm grateful.

SPEAKER_07 0:23

And we are so glad to have our guests here with us today. We have some beautiful, wonderful, um, God-fearing people that we call friends. And I I typically introduce my guests, but today I want to do it a little differently. I'm going to tell you who they are, and then I'm going to ask them to share a little bit about themselves. So, today's guest, we have Minister Darien Abrams and his wonderful wife, Dr. Toya Abrams. You've met her before on the podcast. So she's back again. You are actually the first recovering guest to be back on the podcast. So welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Truth be told, she reached out to the studio and said, Hey, myself first time. Can I bring this man with me first time? Can this the man right here? Okay. She didn't say that for the show.

SPEAKER_07 1:31

And we are so glad to have you back. Thank you. Um, so I'm going to start with Minister Barry. And I want you to share a little bit about yourself. Um, yeah, let's just start with share a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Well, um, I am young, able and black man's. Um, I'm grateful to be here and grateful to be anybody. Um I'm 41 years old. Okay. Um, I'm a man of God. Um I'm a husband, father. Um, many have called me a Renaissance man when it comes to the arts. Um, God has blessed me a little bit in all of the fields.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Um intentional with uh loving God, loving people, um, sharing my gifts um with others, helping others. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:27

Okay, okay. And Dr. Tomay, how would you uh get look, there's lots of things, but get just give us a brief synopsis. A little bit you uh that you want the people to know about you.

SPEAKER_06 2:40

I'm a wife, and I get I get so excited when I say that. I love it. We'll go into detail about that, but you is wife, you need to be clear on that.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Yes, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 2:50

And I don't know, I'm I'm a therapist, of course, and as we know from the last time, a person who just loves to help people. Um outgoing, love a good laugh, all of those things.

SPEAKER_07 3:02

Okay, yeah, very good. So I'm gonna do uh something a little different here. So, Darien, give me three words to describe your wife.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Um unique. Okay, uh, one of a kind. So unique, uh loving, uh loyal.

SPEAKER_07 3:30

Okay. Oh that's good.

SPEAKER_06 3:33

Um uh toy. Um compassionate, okay, patient. Um God fearing, I don't know what's two words.

Divorce Lessons On Selflessness

SPEAKER_07 3:46

Okay, okay. I think that's a good way to start this. A good way to start this. Okay. All right, so let's let's dive in. So this season we were talking about marriage, and we as we as we dive into marriage, there are a lot of different stages of marriage, and there are a lot of uh just different phases of marriage. And so today we are going to talk about not only being divorced, but remarried. And so, Darien, we're going to uh focus the first part of the conversation on talking with you and getting to know your story because you were previously married before uh before this one. And so we want to dive into that and and just try to understand some of the things that you've gained that you gained from that experience and uh potentially some of the things that you've brought into this your your new marriage. So let's just dive right in. So tell tell us how long were you previously married, and um, how long were you previously married, and how long before you got remarried?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

So I was previously married for six years.

SPEAKER_07 5:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Um that ended in 2017, and I remarried in 2023.

SPEAKER_07 5:10

Okay. So you had some time to really kind of sit and think about some things.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Absolutely. Absolutely.

unknown 5:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 5:21

And in your sitting and thinking, what would you say were the most significant lessons that marriage taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Um, I would say more than anything is that I needed to be more considerate, more selfless.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Um, and that's I kind of switched off into questions. Um yeah, that's pretty much it. That's you know, I needed to be more uh selfless and um considerate.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Um just letting you know this is a safe space, be comfortable, you ain't gotta be rigid, relaxed about yourself, okay? Because the question I'm about to ask is if you don't mind, like was the the two things that you mentioned was those the causes, or you found out that this is a reaction to what was in the previous marriage? That that like when you came into the marriage, like you got married, okay? You came in, this is who I am, but in there, was it something that grown that caused you to be inconsiderate and to be selfish? Or was that you coming into that previous marriage like that? And then then the marriage exposed it that caused it to go separately.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Um, I would say that there were things in me, especially being a uh only child on my mother's side, um that that was already in me as far as you know my mannerisms, as far as uh self, you know, being selfish in my thinking and or my behaviors. Um so yeah, that was that was already there.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

So the marriage hiding the word.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah, it it exposed it more.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Exposed it more. Okay. And was it was like a a mutual agreeance or was it one-sided to say that this has to end? If you don't mind talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah. Um It wasn't I think at first it was hard to receive and to look at yourself in the mirror with certain things like that.

unknown 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Uh because as you may know, you know, the ego doesn't like to be changed. It does not let it not to be confronted.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

So um there was a thing, you know, it may have been brought up by uh my ex, but um originally it wasn't uh uh a mutual mutual thing agreed upon.

SPEAKER_07 7:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:02

So what so you said you uh learned that you needed to be more considerate and more selfless. So what other what insight have you gained about yourself since your previous marriage? Um, and what in addition to those things, what do you feel like you should you wish you would have understood earlier?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Um the main thing is I would like I said I would say again, being selfless um and not just selfless in I like to say A and B and not C because that C can be significant to the significant other. And so it's like I could feel like, oh well, I'm doing X, Y, Z over here, but there could be I want to make sure that I'm being selfless in every area every area, you know, that I can be. Um so because sometimes like I said, you know, those little things, those little nuances, the things that you leave out, can be very significant to your significant other.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

So you divorced. You dealt with the pain of the divorce. So was it the fact of the divorce that allowed you to self-reflect, or was it something else in the midst of your life when you was divorced that saying, you know what, let me examine what went wrong? Like, was it like what was the cause of your your journey of self-reflection that you had to be today married? Was it a divorce or was it something else?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

It was definitely the divorce. Um and then everything that came along after that, um just hearing stories from others because you know, you never get married to get a divorce.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

And so, you know, initially, you know, you hear about uh statistics and you're like, oh, I don't want to be one of those type of persons, and you know, what are people gonna say or you know how is this gonna look um or feel? And so um, you know take taking time to just self-reflect um and put other people, other men specifically who have been through what I've been through, okay, and see how they went through their journey of healing, okay, um, and just restoration within themselves. Um, that was really helpful. So just having to surround a nice circle um that was genuine and intentional about your bet my betterment.

SPEAKER_07 10:49

Okay, okay. That it that is so I I want to say this, and I'm I'm not a man, so I I don't I don't know it to be you know completely true, but I feel like from what I've heard, it's very rare to have men that are that will surround you and challenge you in a way that pushes you to be better and really self-reflect. I know we as women, we do it all the time. Like we're always like, girl, you need to that wasn't good. You need you might want to check that. But it but I I feel like from what I've heard, it's harder to find a group of men that you can trust enough to be able to um. So how did you how did you find that group or locate that group of men?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Well, I definitely had a lot of bad examples of how I could have handled things. Yeah, yeah. But then I had, you know, a lot of good examples. And just from my youth or my childhood, or just the things I was around from I was younger, stuff I saw or heard about, I'm just like, ugh, I I never would want that to happen with me, or I would never want to experience that.

unknown 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Um, I never want to initiate or involve myself in certain things that would lead me to go further on down, you know, the rabbit hole with matters. And so I wanted to go a different way. So seeing how others handle things and their and their consequences and and how they, you know, um some people recovered, some people, you know, they didn't, and they're still healing today. Yeah, you know, and so I wanted to I wanted to be better for myself, for God, for my son. Yeah, because he was definitely watching.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

You know, it was a sponge. And so I wanted to um do my best, you know, to just be intentional, my inviting spirit. Yeah, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And during your journey, the from what I'm hearing, um getting married was not like I want to be married again wasn't the focal point. It was really you becoming whole was the focal point to go through the journey of healing during your divorce, during your divorce.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Right. Um, because she could tell you, I was not originally I was not looking to remarry. At least not the time when we reconnected.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Um, because I was still dealing with some things emotionally, mentally, um, that I hadn't healed from.

unknown 13:23

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Um, you know, because after I divorced, I did date again. And even with some of those scenarios, it was like, ugh, you know, like, is this really what's going on out here? And so you're testing the water and you say it's too cold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Or no, no, this is toxic.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

You know, yeah, yeah, and and some some things reminded me of the stuff that you had just come out of. Exactly. Okay. You know, and then there were some things that I had to recognize within myself that I needed to improve in or heal from. You know, so uh just analyzing all these things, and then I had one of my mentors, uh, one of the best advice he told me, he said, uh, he said, son, you need to just fall in love with Jesus all over again. And when he said that, it was just like, you know, some things kind of go over your head. Um, you know, and I I'm a PK, been in church all my life.

SPEAKER_07 14:19

Okay. You hear stuff, but PK, because some people don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Pastor's kid.

SPEAKER_07 14:25

Okay, all right, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

That explains you. Oh my goodness. Um, so yeah, just take really pressing into that and honing into and and just being closer to God.

unknown 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

You know, getting more of my word, building more of my relationship, um, knowing God's character, learning that.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Um and something I've learned even more is just learning um who I am in in Christ, um, whose I am, yeah, and my purpose, my God-given purpose as a man in the earth.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yes. Okay. And um you mentioned mentor. I was just wondering like what all the tools help you to be in to help you through your journey. Like, you know, you had your mentor, you had your group. Well, now actually it sounds like you had a big circle that you had to bring down to the right circle. And then in that right circle, you had your pillars in the white in that circle that you leaned on, even though you got your circle, you got those other people there. I'm just like, was there anything else outside of you know, reloving and falling back in love with God, and have that strong mentor that you actually hear from, not just talk to, but hear from. Was there anything else you used, uh any other tools, therapy, anything?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Definitely went to therapy a couple of times. And um, I watched conferences online, I attended conferences, speaking of one particularly that really made it changed my life. Um, going to um one of the Merry Life conferences of uh Pastor Reg Royal.

unknown 16:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Reggie Royal in uh London Royal. Um he said something. Uh he said something. He said, um, we have to learn to kill our will for our spouse for the glory of God. And but at first he said he could just kept saying, kill your will, kill your will. We're like, what do you mean, what do you mean, kill your will?

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

So he broke it down, you know, and this is just a uh scenario. If Sam likes his toilet paper under, you like yours over, are y'all gonna fall out about that? You know, is it is is that gonna be right.

SPEAKER_07 16:53

I mean, that's important because it it needs to be over. I don't even understand.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

What you I'm gonna be honest with you. Is there a toilet paper in the bathroom? It could be sitting, it could be up and down. I need the TP. That's what it is. Is it dead or not? That's why that's that's pretty much how I am. Yeah, you know, but I get it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah, you know, not necessarily sweating this the small things or letting um a little mohill turn to a mountain, right? You know, and how to deal with those matters and navigate through that. Um, you know, and and not just ruling a household with a iron fist and like, oh, I'm the man, this is gonna be like this, and you know, being ri very rigid, yeah, and not having flexibility, um, being not compromising, things like that. You know, so that's basically what he was uh speaking about. You know, hey, I God may not always give me the answer right away, he may give it to my wife, you know, give her direction or um the know-how how to do something. So I have to swallow my pride, you know, listen, you know, and just sometimes just shut up.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

You know, and uh goodness. Listen to that. Just the little things.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

But yeah, so uh, so yeah, definitely. So I would say listening to other podcasts and conferences online, um, having a uh strong community, uh church community, um, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

And you mentioned, you know, the little things, and I this thought to me, you know, like some people may not know what's a little thing from a major thing. So, how did you define the little things from the major things? Because a little thing too may be major to another person, but they may not understand that because that little thing never existed in their upbringing. Right. But now this little thing to you is a major thing to them. So, how do you like identify or how you cope with someone who may take a little thing to you and make it major, but not to let it be come to a point where say, you know what, this ain't gonna work. Like, how do you like separate the two? Um, or even deal with that if it occur.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah. I I believe it definitely takes conversation, you know, open and honest conversation, taking notes, you know, making making mental notes, writing things down if you have to, to say, hey, she doesn't like peanut butter on whatever I may like it, you know, and so if I shouldn't want to necessarily press her to like something that I may not care for. You know, um, and so and and you know, maybe ask more questions, you know, you know, what what's the what's the background of it? Get some clarity. Yeah. You know, why why is this important or why is this not, why do you feel this is not important? So doing a little bit of you know, more investigation and you know, inquiring about, you know, those little things versus the big things and even even within yourself.

SPEAKER_05 20:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

You know, um yeah, so just and we we even did a a workbook. Okay, you know, and it it it challenged us to ask our questions to ourselves and to each other. And it helped us to be able to now communicate those things that, you know, we things that may have been going on, but we may have not understood, you know, well, why is this and why is that? So it challenged us to get more direct, got you, you know, and um more in depth.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 20:39

Go go ahead. Because I I was I was gonna I was gonna move us backwards a little bit, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Okay, but you can go backwards. I just want to ask this one question. I am gonna go backwards to be in the right direction. When you uh when I asked the question about all the tools, and you mentioned conferences and and uh sermons and talking to mentors and your group and therapy and therapy, how did you cipher what to listen to? Like, because it's a lot, you're getting a lot of information, but how do you decipher what is applicable from what you were hearing to help you get to the destination that you're going? Because that's a lot, you know. You you had a lot, which is great. Yeah, but how do you say, okay, I got a hundred things coming at me now, all this can't fit. What is it that I need? Like, what was the guide, what was deciphered to say, yes, this is it. No, this is not.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

I believe uh with me, it was definitely Holy Spirit that to help me decipher going through that to see the things I needed to bring immediate attention to for myself, whether it was just versus other things that were just good to know. You know, I may have I may have not experienced those other things, but you know, I made another, oh, that's good to know. I I didn't know about this before. Or I I can use this if in case I come to this situation.

SPEAKER_07 21:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Um, and so yeah, the Holy Spirit definitely has, you know, it helped a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

No, you can go in backwards.

Reconnecting After Seventeen Years

SPEAKER_07 22:10

So I so I want to go back, but I want to go back to understand your origin story. Like, how did you all come together? Because you you mentioned earlier that, you know, when she came back into your life. So tell us how, like, how did you all come to be husband and wife?

SPEAKER_06 22:33

Oh, thank you. Um so for those that don't know, we've been knowing each other since we were about 12 or 13 years old. Um, this is my first boyfriend in the eighth grade. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

We dated for you planned in the flag early, but you remember me.

SPEAKER_06 22:55

So we dated for about three years off and on in our our teenage years. Um, and of course, we were still in school, still remained friends, even after the relationship kind of just dissolved. Um, and then after that, of course, things happened. He got married, and I ended up in a relationship that was 15 years long. And so I think we kind of reconnected around, I want to say 2020, maybe 2021, somewhere around there. Um, and I think, and I'm gonna be honest, because it's funny when I tell people, I saw a video of him working. And I think my first message to him was your hands are ashy, you need to go put on some loads. That was that was my message. And he responded and he was like, girl, I'm working. And so from there, it was just conversation. And it's so crazy because I tell people we had that conversation as if we had never lost contact, as if there was not a 17-year gap of us not saying anything to each other. But we came back into the fold as if we had been talking all day, every day. And there was literally a 17-year space where we had not seen each other, we had not talked to each other.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Wow. Wow. So you picked up where you left off.

SPEAKER_06 24:07

Picked up where we left off, I can say that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 24:10

From from bubbly-eyed, cheery children to, you know, now, you know, very reality-based adults.

SPEAKER_06 24:18

What's happening to that?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

With that teenager spirit behind it all.

SPEAKER_07 24:28

Okay, okay. So what made you say this is because you said you did you weren't planning on getting remarried. So what made you say, wait, there's something different about this. Maybe I should explore this more.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Come on, be honest. So um I I realized that she she was very intentional.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Okay. Um, she had a good foundation uh upbringing as a young woman. Um and in in in regards to how to be with a a man.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Um as far as respect, um, as far as consideration, um, you know, mannerisms, um being there, being supportive, speaking into, you know, your inner man, and um, you know, on all fronts.

SPEAKER_05 25:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

You know, mentally, emotionally, she was, you know, emotionally mature, emotional intelligence. Um she was stable with and I I don't mean just on a physical or a monetarial sense, but um spiritually and mentally.

SPEAKER_07 25:57

Okay. Um look, that's that's important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Um so and and uh it was, you know, I I realized that because I in the past I felt as if I had to be the one to either just always lead or always teach or always uh pour. Okay, you know, and so uh she definitely helped me to I guess receive.

SPEAKER_07 26:29

Yes, you know, where you have somebody who could pour back into you.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It was a safe place.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Okay, glasses. Wait, wait, wait. I got cruise mind. See, marriage. I love it. All right. Um so in essence, when you came back together, you saw the maturity, you saw a mature woman. So I'm gonna pose this question to you. Yes. Was that always there, or was that because of the previous 15 years you developed it?

SPEAKER_06 27:13

I'm going to say 50-50. Um, I think with my upbringing, there was just some things that were just instilled in us. There was just some things we we had to do and we had to know. But in that 15 relationship, 15-year relationship, I was much younger than the individual. So I felt like I had to grow up a little quicker than I probably wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 27:38

Um, because I was put into situations that was well beyond my years that I probably shouldn't have had to deal with. Um, and so just learning from those situations kind of made me have to get into this mature area of life kind of quick. Um, and I I wouldn't say it wasn't it was a bad thing. Um it wasn't all bad and it wasn't all good, but I I learned from that. And so I think that's what made me into the individual that I'm in, and you know, that that you see today.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

So the 15 years was the preparation for you to be the wife that you are today.

SPEAKER_06 28:15

I would say so. I would say so. It taught me a lot of what I did not want because I was only 19 when I got into the relationship. I had no idea what I wanted. I didn't even know if I wanted to go to school or not. So let alone making very tough decisions about what I wanted in a man was not, I mean, coming from the family, we we couldn't have boyfriends. And I know my family couldn't have boyfriends. So you didn't know what to even look for in a partner. Like, what do I what's my non-negotiables? What am I okay with? What am I not okay with? I had no idea. I'm I'm still a kid. Yeah, essentially. Yeah. So, and you know, I had to learn those things.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

And back to you, did but you it seemed like it was a revel it was revelational for you of the the characteristic of what she has. Was that something you always looking for, or was that something you just became aware to because of your journey from your path, from your previous uh marriage?

SPEAKER_00 29:21

I would say a little of both. Um because being in my previous marriage, there were some things that I accepted or tolerated, um, and I knew it there it wasn't maybe the best uh to my best uh benefits, okay, you know, or um or for my my health, for my health.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Um and you know, just being around her, and as we developed our new relationship, um I noticed that certain things I probably had to be maybe uh I felt kind of cautious or eerie about. Um she let me know, hey, it's okay. Um and so just being able to open up being transparent with some things, um Which was difficult for him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:24

It was very difficult. Well, how long were you all in in your reconnected friendship before you decided let's take this and and you know mer transition into a relationship?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Um this was what 2020, like after the like later on in the year, late in the year, um is when the conversation started, and um she actually opened up to me as far as how she still had feelings for me basically.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Wow, you know, from all those years from all those years past you presented, you you presented peace because he could not have received a presentation.

Guarded Hearts And Old Wounds

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yeah, no, and so she opened up by some things and I was shocked, you know, and uh there there were some things that I was just timid about because you know I was actually fresh out of a relationship, you know, the year prior to. And um, so I was discouraged on a lot of different fronts. And um, you know, I I questioned a lot of stuff. You know, and then there was, I have to be honest, you know, there was some a past time we were in high school, and you know, she she she kind of broke my heart a little bit, you know.

SPEAKER_06 31:54

Oh and so he still hung on to the listen that that that puppy love will can sometimes take you out. It it leaves some real scars, you know what I'm saying? I didn't I didn't know that. I thought he was joking, but he was very, very serious. Very serious, and I'm gonna so I had to take that into consideration.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

So y'all disgusted, you know, we did it. Remember that time I was at the locker?

SPEAKER_06 32:22

That was really a real conversation because I'm like, boy, I was 16. And then to me, it didn't hold as much weight as it did for him. So now as an adult, I'm looking like, man, that really did impact him and how he maneuvered in other spaces in his life. And so I had to bite the bullet on that one.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

So basically, you're the more I'm gonna say intimate, emotional of the two. Yeah. Because if you held on to that and she moved on, doesn't mean that means that was that doesn't thank you. Or is that more so the the the commitment you have into the relationship, the investment you put in? Because she's because you said she broke your heart and you remembered it. He did. And then I'm also in the part two, answer the foreign, in the part two, did that did that carry into your first marriage?

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

So news to make. Um I'm trying to go back. You had a load of question. Um just and I because she was like my first little puppy love you know, girlfriend. And that experience did affect the way I kind of, you know, in my development, because I was still teenagers, yeah, yeah. You know, um, you know, just going through that whole process and navigating through all of that because I didn't know I don't I wasn't aware about counseling back then. Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Um, so just try to navigate through all of that the best you could, um, seeing other examples, you know, whether it's me in my church or, you know, me and in my family or whatever. Um just yeah, just dealing with all of that and just I I think just looking at how I was functioning before versus how I could be.

SPEAKER_05 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Um, like if if there was areas oper areas of opportunity that I could make to be to be better, um just wearing all that stuff out just to see, like, I used to watch the Cosby show all the time, right? And I know this to come and fictional or whatever. Right, right, right. You know, that was an imprintation on me on my so um and it's in other shows and in other couples. Um being at my at my old church and seeing the deacons and the deaconesses and the pastors and the first ladies come in, um, and you know, I I admired that. Yeah, you know, um, that was something that I wanted to emulate um within, you know, when I did get married.

SPEAKER_05 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

And so when and then even though the family family dynamics, you know, I was real big on family. And so, you know, come from a very loving, caring, generous family. And so when something like that happened, like with that being my first relationship, you know, as a teen, and then the heartbreak, it was like, well, this is this is different.

SPEAKER_07 35:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

You know, I don't know, you know, it hurts.

SPEAKER_07 35:47

Yeah, and you don't you just don't want to hurt like that anymore. Right. So what can I do differently to not hurt this way?

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Right.

SPEAKER_07 35:55

And protect.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

You know, and I'm thinking, and she would say she would she watch the shows and stuff and things too. So I'm thinking like, well, you know, we we have built a friendship. So I'm thinking, like, well, how can this person have hurt me like this? You know, and so it uh made me more cautious.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Um, it was a blow to uh, you know, my my conscious, you know, just even being sure of who I am, yeah, you know, as a man, and not use that, let that pain turn me, you know, into a like a negative type of vibe, yeah, you know, going with people or with the relationships, you know.

SPEAKER_07 36:37

So more you say more cautious, more would you say more guarded as well? So as you as you move forward, you're not, you maybe, maybe you weren't as open, or maybe you were just looking for any sign of what you experienced before because wait, hold on, that might lead to some heartbreak. Right. So let's not go down.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Right, exactly. Yeah, most definitely.

SPEAKER_07 36:59

I mean, because we we are human, we adapt. So, so as we go through and as we go through life, have different experiences and experience different, you know, trauma, we learn how to adapt so that that doesn't happen again. I mean, you know more than more than most. So yeah, uh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Yeah, so I was just asking the question because, you know, uh, like our pastor said, historical makeup. And and because of the fact you was an early age, like you said, you didn't have the counseling, you didn't know how scarring and deep that went, that it could have built the uh what was it you uh uh could have built up that character that when you went into that relationship, that uh that inconsiderateness and all that stuff, because in essence, you felt that she was inconsiderate of your feelings at that time when she hurt you. Right. Yeah, and so you know, because it's a breeding ground. Like, oh man, hold on now. Yeah, I get you tuna fish, and you did, and I brought it to you, and you did this, you know, and I ain't trying to go deep, but I ain't gonna lie, we can talk offline, but I wanna know what did you do to hurt my man? Hey, and I'm gonna be a big thing.

SPEAKER_07 38:17

Okay, moving on, moving on. All right. No, no, no, you're gonna answer.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

No, no, no, and it's on a serious note, and another thing I want to mention is that um, you know, I had to realize too that just because I was around that culture of married couples and seeing that reflected on TV, the cosmic shows and all that stuff, I had to realize that not everybody wanted to be married. That's it. Or under or or had that desire to have that type of lifestyle, you know. Um, so yeah, I'm so I'm thinking like marriage is great, right? You know, this is something that we should want to do, and it's you know, it's a God uh point of thing, and um, you know, but everybody has their journey.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Everybody has different historical makeups, and some people may put on a front because it feels good or it looks good, or I want to, yeah, I wanna I wanna shoot for that way, but in reality, behind closed doors, you're not you're not really even mentally ready, emotionally or spiritually. Yeah, you know? So, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 39:26

So you you mentioned that you have a son from your previous marriage. Um, and you do not have to answer this question if you do not want to answer the question, but the question is to the two of you how have you navigate, how have you been able to navigate, you know, the you know, that still rearing your son, because I know that you're very present in his life. So how have you been able to navigate that space and and and and you two you navigate that space, but then also navigate uh with the previous relationship and then navigate within your marriage?

SPEAKER_06 40:06

Um, for me as a person who who does not have children, he made that process easy. The person um I dated before had children, but I had no interaction with them. So there was no, you know, let's go out to dinner, get to know your kids. It was it was none of that. Did I see them? Yes. Did I speak? Yes, but there was no relationship coming in um and and dating him. The first thing I was like, I don't want to ever meet anybody's kids right away. Like, I want to get to know you first, ease that in because you know, as even having gone through that as a child, I'm like, I don't want to meet somebody right away because I don't know if you're gonna be around long. See, you know, see. So he took his time with that, okay, which I I appreciated. And it wasn't, it was like, this is my son, and I respect it. Like, this is your child, your child comes first. Um, but he eased me into that situation and I appreciated that. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 41:08

Okay. Oh, we can move on. If you don't want to talk about it, ain't no problem. We don't have to.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

No, that I I was I was very cautious, you know, about um breaking my son, you know, around uh another person or my significant other.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Um and you know, because I'm always gonna be his father, he's always gonna be always gonna be my son. Um and so just even navigating that whole piece of you know, letting my son know that hey, as he got older, because the question did come up, well, what happened what happened to you and mom, you know, and going from there into now me being with someone else.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Um and then as it got older, you know, hearing his voice, his his opinion on things, yeah, you know, and what he felt, um, even about her.

SPEAKER_07 42:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

So um that was important. So I I took time with him.

SPEAKER_07 42:11

Okay. I respect that. And I that that's a that, and I know you can't speak for your son, but it's it sounds like you did your best to make sure that not only you were comfortable, but he was comfortable and she was comfortable. Yeah. Because everybody needs to coexist. Absolutely. Exactly. Peace.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Very good, very good. Um in that comfortableness, I'm just wondering how the ex, how you dealt with the ex in that situ in this situation. Because you mentioned, you mentioned you being comfortable, your son being comfortable, and you're being comfortable. But through him, she's in this as well. So, how did that work out? How where she's, you know, if you don't want to talk about it, I because I know she's not here to speak on it. Right. So I do want to respect that, but you know, if you don't want to talk about it, we can move on.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Um I would just say that it's a process.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

It's a process. All right. So all right.

SPEAKER_07 43:14

So on that, um, a question for you, Toya. Um you, as you came back into his life as a friend, and you have had to watch him uh navigate some things. Yeah, how do you feel like the I guess that's really not because you because you really hadn't talked for 17 years, yeah, I guess that's probably not a not even a question, a relevant question. So I might just skip that one. I'll just edit that out. Because when I was going it might be relevant. She's interested in them, you know. I'm interested. Well, the the the question I was gonna ask is how has Watch Watching his life after divorce, like how has that shaped your understanding of marriage?

SPEAKER_06 44:05

Ooh. See, that is a relevant question. Okay, all right. Watching him, and he and he mentioned um something earlier about him being guarded. It's her it taught me patience, which is something he can tell you. He's been knowing me a long time. I do not have. I have no patience. But it taught me how to be gentle and how to be a safe space for him. Um, and and and in us being married, it took a while for him to actually open up and share things with me because I know there was probably a time, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, where sharing things probably just fell on dry land. It just didn't land where it was supposed to. He didn't feel safe in those spaces. And by me being a therapist, by training, some of that came into play. I was never trying to be his therapist, but those skill sets were useful in our marriage because it was like, I needed, I'm the type of person, I'm gonna say what I want to say, when I want to say it, how I want to say it. Okay, okay. Your feelings at that time did not matter to me. But when it came to him, yeah, I was like, I can't use what I used with somebody else with him. I can't bring that type of dynamic into this relationship because this is a tightly different person. Okay, and so I it it taught me how to be patient, how to be, and how to be a safe space for him. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

He mentioned the Cosby shows and the church. So what so what was your examples of marriage? Because you had a 15-year relationship, but you technically wasn't married.

SPEAKER_06 45:49

Praise God.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

So, you know, in the state, that'd be like common law. I don't know if you live together, I don't even know. But I'm just like, what was your examples? What was what helped mold you and say this is what marriage is until you got married?

SPEAKER_06 46:08

You know, when I was younger, I had my my grandmother and my grandfather, but I was very young, so I can't really remember much of them, their marriage, but I remember that they they got along and they loved each other. Um it was a lot of TV, like he mentioned, and then just seeing other people out in the world. And there were some examples where I was like, I would never. I I don't I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:35

Um, but even for the women who were not married in my family, they still gave great advice.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 46:41

You let a man be a man. If you all are having trouble, you don't let the world know that you are having trouble. You handle that behind closed doors, but in front of everybody, you hold a hand, you kiss, you hug, you talk lovingly to each other. Um, so I use all of those things. Okay, and that's what kind of helped me come into this marriage. And then I think we were just learning from each other.

SPEAKER_07 47:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:06

Um, and I'm the type I love to ask questions. What are some things that you would like to see in this marriage that you didn't see in the first one? Okay. How do you want me to show up in this marriage?

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:18

Um, those were some questions that we asked that I asked collectively, and then I had to ask myself, like, how do I want to show up in this space? Because I knew how I was showing up in this other space.

SPEAKER_07 47:27

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_06 47:28

And I didn't like it. Okay. Um. And so I knew that I couldn't bring that residue into this situation if I wanted it to work and to last.

SPEAKER_07 47:37

So it sounds like you you took some good inventory. I did. And and said, let me do some work.

unknown 47:44

Yeah.

Chronic Illness And Radical Honesty

SPEAKER_06 47:44

And even, you know, coming into our marriage, I still had a lot of work. He can tell you. I I communicate because that's part of my job, but there were still some holes that needed to be fixed, and how I talked about things and how sometimes I'm very private. He knows that. I was private in our marriage. It's like, what's going on with you? And I wouldn't share because I didn't have that safe space before. Um, and so one of the things I do want to touch on, because when he came back into my life, I was not doing well physically. So for most people didn't know, I um was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. And so when he came in, it was at the height. I was not the best physically or mentally. And so he came in on that and he hit the ground running with the things like you shouldn't eat this, you shouldn't be doing this. And so I wasn't used to that. And so I wouldn't tell him everything. So he'll be like, How you feel? I'm fine, and life is in shambles. I am not feeling well, I'm hurting.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

You just didn't want to be challenged. Don't challenge me.

SPEAKER_06 48:50

I didn't want to be challenged. And don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me what to do. But I also would hear people say, you know, I wouldn't tell a man that I have something physical going on because they wouldn't see you as a woman or they may think less about you. So I would be like, I'm okay, I'm good.

SPEAKER_07 49:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 49:08

And all the time I'm like, bodies feel like somebody is like ripping the skin off of me. Like, you know what I mean? And so he's like, you have to learn how to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Yeah. So you prov you presented a safe space for him, but you didn't recognize the safe space that he presented.

SPEAKER_06 49:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Because of what was been because of the blockers of what you were to do. And did you feel that you presented a safe space or you had to or you still developing it when y'all got back when you finally like got back or at that moment?

SPEAKER_00 49:45

I felt I I was presenting a safe space. Um but then just from what I had learned from being able to listen and read between the lines with things in general, and this came through my healing and everything, uh, from as far as what I learned from my previous marriage, learning when to listen for what's not being said.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Um, and then I was able to pick up on certain cues from her.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

You know, um, so just correlating all that stuff together, I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_06 50:20

You say you okay, but no. Oh, he's good at it, actually.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

So yeah, you know, and uh just being able to discern, um, you know, having a gift of discernment with things, you know, definitely helped.

SPEAKER_07 50:32

So one more divorce question. Um what advice would you offer somebody who's recently divorced and is beginning what we hope would be a journey of healing? Because I I realize everybody doesn't go on a journey of healing. Some people stay and they hold it and they never get rid of somebody else. Yeah, but it, but if, but you you you did the work. Yes. You chose to do the work, and so my my question is what advice would you give to somebody who is starting uh a journey of divorce?

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Don't be afraid to take that journey of healing, take that first step. Whatever that first step is, whether it's just you sitting down and talking to somebody to say, hey, I recognized I was at fault, or these are my areas of uh improvement that I need to make. Um take that first step. Whether it's talking to a mentor, talking to a pastor, talking to a counselor, um, don't be afraid to be challenged. Um it's all it's it's all gonna uh mold you to be better, yeah, you know, help you heal. You you don't wanna um get out get out of mess with mess and go into something else with mess. Right. You know, and so you and you don't want to bleed out on other people, you know. Um so yeah, definitely take that first step. You know, hold that mirror up to your face and realize hey you ain't got it all together. You know um and don't hold yourself in condemnation. Um and it's okay. Like like I said, I was caught up in the and thinking about the worldly stuff as far as the the statistics and oh this percentage of people is is uh getting divorced and how that's gonna look and you know, worrying about your image and all that stuff. Um and that's something that I learned. I had to let go of that pride.

SPEAKER_07 52:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

I had to let away that pride because you know pride is it goes before the fall.

SPEAKER_07 52:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

You know, so um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Would it be safe to say to ask the question of for those who maybe were male or female going through divorce, ask the question from the you know, granted you still need to be healing, but was it should I even consider being married again? You know, look at your lifestyle, you know, like especially depending on how the divorce is. We know every divorce is different, every reason is, but you know, I think that because when we were separated, that was a question we had to ask ourselves. And then, like, okay, do we want to be married? Should I be married? Or do I want to be married but not with you?

SPEAKER_07 53:42

Right. Do I still want to be married to you?

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Right. Like a legit question. Yeah, you know, and I think because of the fact that if you answer if you ask those questions first, then you can really say, okay, this is I don't want to be married, but I do need to work on myself. Or, or even then or whatever decision is, oh yeah, I want to, whatever the question you answer yes to, then you gotta ask yourself, okay, do I want to stay the same? And this hope someone could deal with all my my my insanity and all that. Or what can I change? What do I need to actually confront? Because, you know, because nothing too, you just want to make sure that after you've been through what you've been through, you actually come in out better than what you to be better than what you're doing. That's the goal. That's the goal. That's the goal.

SPEAKER_07 54:33

That should be the goal. That's not that's not everybody's goal, but that's that should be the goal.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

But we're encouraging people today that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

Absolutely.

unknown 54:41

Yeah.

Independence Inside A Marriage

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Ask the, you know, ask the question, okay. First of all, do I want to be married again? Okay, cool. Do I want to continue to be the person or do I want to be something different? You know, or no, I just want to be by myself.

unknown 54:51

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Because you know, a lot of times, like in my case, I came from one dependency to another dependency. So I've never been independent.

unknown 55:00

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

And so for the second separation that I had we had that year of being independent. It was very comfortable. Now I ain't gonna lie, it was cool being independent. I wish I had done it early.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Yeah. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Because that because it really prepared me to understand how to deal with the world. So when you come from one dependency to another dependency, you don't really know how to handle things on your own. Right. Because you automatically, well, I'm coming from my parents, and I'm with my wife. And you know, well, I don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_07 55:28

And I well, I what I what I'll say to that is being independent and living on your own, it builds your character in a way that you you don't really you can't nothing else can build your character like living on your own.

SPEAKER_06 55:43

Right.

SPEAKER_07 55:43

Um, because you're responsible for everything. Right. And you really get to see yourself before you point the finger at somebody else. Right. Because I I I feel like it it helps you to get to know yourself. Yeah. Um, not that everybody has to, you know, live by themselves or any of that. Some people some people can can do that introspection and they can have that introspection without that. But there they I feel like there are some things that you just don't know about yourself until you are literally by yourself and you're the only person in the space. So, like, even stuff as simple as, you know, stuff people get upset about, taking out the trash, uh cleaning up the house, and da-da-da-da. It's like, well, okay, are you really that clean on your own?

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Right.

SPEAKER_07 56:31

Right. You're you're you're upset and you want somebody else to do all of these things and bring all these different things to the table. But you don't do it. But you don't even clean your own house.

SPEAKER_04 56:40

Right.

SPEAKER_07 56:41

Like, you know, so okay, let's let's let's back this train up and say, oh, well, maybe, okay, maybe we both need to contribute to this activity because neither one of us enjoys cleaning. We know this about ourselves, but we know we can't live in a pig pen. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 56:59

And I think in that too, can also I think another thing people don't consider is hyper-independency. Because I'm very hyper-independent. Okay. I am very, I will get it done, do it on my own, listen to the couch. Okay. Who you telling, huh? It was, it was difficult being married and like having to realize, like, oh, there's this other human that lives in this house. But that would actually say, like, you know, I can I I'll do that. But I'm like, I was so used to just doing things on my own that it was like I forgot that there is another my husband in here lightened the load, but I was just like, I can do it, I'll get it done, and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wait, slow down. Because in a sense, that's this that disregards him.

SPEAKER_07 57:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 57:48

And makes a person not feel like they're part of the equation. Like they're not needed or valued. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

And go ahead. And in that experience, she's I almost like you hyper-independent, but I am independent. She's very strong. She's not independent, she's not hyper-independent, but she's strong independent. I've come a long way, people. I've come a long way. She's strong independent. She now having she now has no problem saying help. Right. But the one thing, you know, and because, well, beginning of the marriage, I wasn't really the helpful person. I admit it. You know, I'm more helpful now, but one thing I did tell her, well, one thing I knew, but I'm sorry, the one I was trying to get as is this. Knowing who she is, Flir is gonna do it. She's gonna call on me when she needs me. I'm here. If she needs me, she needs me. And when she called, and and that's this is just me. When you call me, though, and then I and I still help. That's just who I am.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

But but but it but it took us to learn, it took just to learn, learn that, and then the media's okay, you know way. That's what you want, because that's what she likes. She's very hands-on, and every and that's what you gotta understand about the other person, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 59:00

And every once in a while, now he'll he'll watch me struggle with something. He's like, Do you need some help?

SPEAKER_06 59:06

Sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_07 59:08

And I'm like, Yes. Right. Literally.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

I'm sitting there watching the movie, I'm like Are you good?

SPEAKER_00 59:27

And apologizing. She almost threw up the first time she had to look at it.

Apologies That Actually Repair

SPEAKER_06 59:41

I really did. You know, I think I think when people I feel like, you know, before everyone gets married, I really do feel like everybody needs to go to premarital therapy and blah blah blah. Because it made me realize that in my family, we don't apologize. And so it took the my generation to realize that these people in this family really, we really don't apologize. Like we don't hear, you know, I'm sorry. It was always, I'm sorry if you felt like that's not an apologize. And so when I was going to therapy, you know, my therapist was like, well, did you apologize? Apologize to your husband. I said, Well, I'm saying I'm sorry if, and she was like, that is not an apology. And so when I really had to sit down and learn to say, I'm sorry, I thought I wasn't having a shit. My child, I literally ran out of the room. I told him, I'm thinking I said, I will be back. Before Anthony said, I'm sorry, I was breaking. And I was like, I'm so I had to like get myself together because I'm like, and my mind admits defeat. And I was like, okay, we gotta practice. So I'm gonna get me in the mirror, like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So I I had to practice.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

We went to the extent of researching, just like there are uh the five love languages.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

There is apology languages.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:21

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

Yes, by the same author.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:23

Okay. We took the test because it was mad.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

It was that.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:31

Oh wow. Yes, your apology language.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

Apology language, yep.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:35

Okay. Not to check that out. Yeah. I've got I've gotten better at uh like he, so he's I feel like he's always been pretty decent at apologizing. But like when I say pretty decent, because there's one, it's one thing to say the words, I'm sorry, but it's another thing to action. Yes, for the action to change. Yeah. You you see what I'm saying? So that's why I say always have been pretty decent.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

We're talking about saying the words, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:04

He was good, he didn't mind saying he was sorry, but it's like, okay, but is there changed behavior behind that? And so, but I I struggled to say I'm sorry. I it wasn't that bad, but I struggled to say the words because it was just like, and and maybe maybe it was feeling like I was I was feeling defeated. Like I don't know, I don't know, but like I'm I now uh it doesn't take anything for me to apologize. I like it used to take like weeks. Now in minutes and hours, I can come back like you know what?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:38

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:39

Yeah, yeah, I I was going through this, I was feeling this, I am sorry, that's not the way I wanted to come off. Da, woo woo, like with and and and it it has, I feel like it has helped us.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

And and to tag on to that, I had to learn the fact that even though what she did hurt me, that doesn't mean she didn't love me. Um, because in the beginning, when that happened, I'm like, what the world? You ain't gonna, because she didn't see the fault in it. But even though this is what you did to me, but the fact was because of what I did was magnified by the the like Hiroshima Nagasaki when she had a firecracker too. But yet to me, the impact of that firecracker was like Hiroshima, yeah, and that's going back to the little things is major to some, yeah, and what's little to you is major to another. Yeah, and that's where that and so but I had to learn that even though in that there's still love.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

Because it wasn't malicious, or in some cases it may be because of the fact that the emotion took over over the intention of the love that said, Hey, I'm being serious, but I don't want to hurt you. Right. But you know, when things like that happen, like this recently we had something happen, and and I ain't gonna lie, the Holy Spirit lets you know assess the situation, you see what's happening, think about what led up to this. You trying to do something, she's trying to do something. Right. So there's a lot of going on, it's not intention, but it did come out because she got the all the things that's going on came out this way. Yeah, right. And next thing I know, I'm like, all right, ain't nothing. I'm just gonna go on about my business. I feel and yeah, and she heard it in my tone, but I know she loved me. Next thing I know she got in the call. Hey, look, it was not my intention to come out that way. I know it may sound this way. I'm sorry, it's just a lot going on. And I even say a lot going on, but I also learned is I receive.

unknown 1:04:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:43

So a lot of times you can get apologized to, but you never say I receive. Then are you really open to the receive the apology or you want that person to really understand the the depths of your pain? And I know you want to punish them. Or you want to punish them. And and there are some times, and I ain't gonna say I say I I receive right away. Right, yeah, right, right. Because I might hold on, we make sure am I in the position to forgive you. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:10

Because you might not be.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Yeah. Or that might be time, say, look, let's take a moment. I need to explain certain things. I need you understand why I felt this way and why this happened. And but that also takes time of one presenting yourself as a safe space and identifying the safe space.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

And then that's where love of God comes in because every marriage should be founded and centered around God. Yeah. Because He is the expression of love. Absolutely. And in that we we we become become, He's like the conduit to help us to understand.

unknown 1:05:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

And that's what we'll be learning in a second.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Yeah, we we definitely can relate because there were times when certain things would happen. And I would either convey something to her, um, and it may have been in a passionate way, and she may have you know and I heard it in a different way. And so sometimes when I what I've meant, what I was meant, what I what I meant for good, yeah, or to help her, you know, she was offended by it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

You know, and it wasn't necessarily just me, I I wasn't saying in a meaningful way, but it was just I guess she had never been challenged at a certain area before, you know, and so I would, when she would react, I would pause to say, now wait a minute. Is this something, are you taking this out? Is this something that I did or I said that's making you feel this way? Or is it something from your triggering from your past that you're experiencing that's causing you to receive or think that I'm attacking you? You know? So we have to deal with that and navigate through all of that. So um I would definitely encourage couples to do that. Um, and to also, you know, you're a believer, know about being equally yoked. Have to be equally yoked.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:16

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

It's not necessarily not everything is 50-50, not everything is 50-50. Um she may be stronger in one area, I may be uh not as strong in another area, but it balances out, right? I may be I may be more knowledgeable in something and versus her, you know. Um it as long as it balances out, you know, that's where you know, some people they they get it twisted thinking that, oh, well, I gotta be making$100,000 a year, and you gotta be making$100,000,$100,000 a year. And, you know, if if it ain't that, we can't we can't roll. We can't roll.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:54

I mean that's ideal, but that's not reality. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

You know, I I gotta I gotta be a size, whatever the women's sizes are that are the ideal. The women's size.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:05

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

You know, like I, you know, you gotta be you gotta weigh this much, and you know, I I'm weighing this much, or you know, I drive this type, I drive I drive this type of car, you gotta drive this type of car. No, um it that's not uh what equally yolk is about. Um you have to be uh spiritually disciplined. Um mind you everyone is on their own journey. Never neither one of us have arrived.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

Uh we're still growing.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:34

Um, but even in coming into our relationship, you know, um, yes, I understood church. I had a relationship with God and everything. Um her story is a little different. She'd been in church when she was younger, you know, but as she got older, she drifted away, which we all have done at some point in time. Um, and so just coming to understand what it is, having more of a relationship with God, you know. So she was able to receive, you know, me teaching her things with that. Um you know, because and just because a person if if they're more seasoned spiritually doesn't necessarily mean they're not a good person that fit for you. True. You know what I mean? Because if if their heart is pied up and ready and ready to receive, then we can grow. Right, you know, even when even with that. So um so yeah, definitely make sure you're equally old. I always encourage, um, like I mentioned before, know who you are. Um, I I would even say first, know whose you are. You know, that's knowing, getting to know God more, getting to know his character and his word. Um, because as you do that, you will it will be revealed who you are in him. You know, those characteristics and qualities that make you unique and different um and make you special. And so uh thirdly to know your purpose as a man or as a woman in the earth. What will you put into this earth for um in a relationship? What is the man's role? What is the woman's role? Right?

SPEAKER_07 1:10:12

Um and that could look different in every relationship. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:15

Yeah, you know, so um the basis, but the but the basis, you know, should be biblical, right? Yes, yes. Um, the man being the provider and the protector and the priest in the household, um, the woman being the nurturer, you know, those type of essentials. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:39

So when you we you you actually actually answered one of the questions that I was going to ask, but no, it's no, it's good. I I like it. I like it. That means that the conversation is flowing just as it should. Um, so because the question was gonna be like, how has your relationship with God influenced uh influenced you? And it and it sounds like it has definitely guided you through every stage of the the the your journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:08

Um so would you go ahead how God influenced you?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:13

Because that's what he said, how it influenced you with in this and like he said, I I'm just re not just but reconnecting to God and doing all of that stuff. And I had to in this space, I had to learn how to hear from him because I was so used to just let's follow my own advice. Okay, okay, okay, okay. The greatest. And so I had to learn how to center myself and learn how to hear his voice in this process. Um because there are times where I'm in the beginning, because we we've had our some challenges in in the beginning that kind of just had me question, like, Lord, do I even do I need to be married? Should I be married? Is this the path for me? Um, and so I had to learn how to just stop talking and learn to listen and learn how to hear his voice and and and understand the woman that he wanted me to be within this marriage. That I had my own idea of what it was, but I think God had another idea of what it should be.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:19

So some people would ask the question, like, Well, what do you mean by hear God's voice? And how do you hear God's voice? And so can you kind of unpack that a little bit?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:27

Yeah, so I think we have a lot of worldly things that we turn to as far as when it comes to marriage, but I had to learn how to get into the word. Okay. And he's taught me that. And I had to get into scripture and learning how to put scripture to the things that were showing up in our marriage to kind of fix those problems and not leaning on because it's easy to go outside and ask somebody, you know, Valeria, what would you do and get that advice? Don't use it. Might be good, might be trash. You know, it might be a little trash. And you know, you you don't want to start bringing all those outside influences to your home because now it becomes something very different. And you I've always wanted to keep my marriage sacred to us. I'm not saying not take advice for the people that love you and want to do better, but you got to learn how to decipher. Yes. And what to keep and whatnot. And so I was like, you know, I'll turn to my mom. That's shout out to Sylvia Patterson. I love my mommy. Um, because she was a big part of this. And so I, you know, I listened to her, but she'll also tell me pray about it.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:37

See what God wants you to do. And then she said, because I know as a mother, she's speaking from a motherly place, right? What she wants for her child. But, you know, talk to God and see where He would lead you in these places. So I would definitely say for me, reading the Bible, praying more, um, just spending that quiet time has helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:59

Um, do you we we've mentioned purpose a lot, excuse me, in this uh in this conversation. And so do what do you all believe is your purpose together? Because I believe that every uh that when God brings couples together, that He brings them together for a purpose. So do you feel like you all are still discovering what your purpose is, or do you feel like you know uh what your purpose is together?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

You know, um it's funny that you mention that it was always a desire of mine to um be in a power couple um where we are movers and shakers in in God's kingdom. Okay, um, where we're helping others, we're doing ministry together, um, making an impact in the kingdom for his glory. Um and so just simply being obedient, you know, to God and um just following his lead and helping helping others as we help ourselves. Um and her coming in, she was she was already in the mental health field. And I told her, I said, You have a you have a gift, you have a gift of helps, you know. And so, and I know I have the gift of helps as well. So I believe, um, like I mentioned before, part of coming to know you who you are, who you are in Christ, uh, that definitely helps helped us to realize that we're supposed to be helping people.

unknown 1:15:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

Seriously, like having couple helping couples. You know, we're not perfect by a long shot.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

Um, but we've, you know, through the grace of God, we've learned, we've experienced things, we've gained wisdom and understanding how to apply that wisdom. Yeah, you know, um it's uh like I mentioned before, it's it's a lot of bad examples out here. You know, we got stuff on television, media, whatever. And you know, a lot of people that have twisted views about marriage. Um you know, and so just us us hold up holding the standard, you know, of what God intended marriage to be. Um, I believe that um he has called us to not only be an impact or be helpful toward towards each other, but towards the world, you know, in our communities, our our little world. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:35

So how long have you all, I should have I should have asked this earlier, but how long have you all uh been married?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:42

Two years and four months.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Okay, how many days she had the months on now?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:49

I had the months is you know to be four months on Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:52

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:53

What's happening to Wednesday? So you all have really, it sounds like because you've you did so much work prior to and you did the premarital counseling, like you did your individual work and you did premarital counseling, you all have been able to establish uh pretty quickly what you wanted your marriage to look like.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:15

Yeah. I would say so.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

You came in with wisdom, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:19

And I think we kind of knew like this is what we what individual, like this is what I'll stand for, this is what I can't, these are things I'm willing to compromise on. Yes, yes. Um and I think that was something I was like, look, what are your non-negotiables? Because I don't want to do anything that's gonna trigger you or remind you of something. So we have to talk about what this is gonna look like. Because I told him I say I can't come in on shaky foundation, like we can't start things.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:47

Come on, come on.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:48

Um, and I was like, it's like with anything you build, you can't build it on rocky ground. So I was like, we have to have some type of understanding when we're coming into this space with one another, what we want that to look like. Yes. Now, are there gonna be some chips and some cracks along the way? Absolutely. But can we remodel this? Yeah, we can. Can we fix this? Of course we can. So but having those conversations first, and I feel like starting out as friends, being this is as a person that I liked as a human, even and I told him, even if I were not married to you, I like you as a person and I will have you as a friend.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:21

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:21

And so having that understanding made it easy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

So is his hands ashy now?

SPEAKER_07 1:18:29

No, it's a bunch of that's what that's what a good help me to do for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

It can't be with a man with ashy hands. Working now, your hands better than being ashy even while you were hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

Hilarious.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:48

So I guess to kind of wrap things up, as a because I I would still consider the two of you newlyweds. Um you're in this newlywed stage, and I I love it for the two of you. Um when I when I look at you, I can see that you love one another. I can see that there is intention. Um and coordination.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:15

Yes, always always the coordination. The coordinated combination.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

What's the landing looking like?

SPEAKER_07 1:19:27

Yes. Um I I can I can see the intention and the and and just it's sometimes you can uh no, I don't want to say that, but I can see from the two of you that it is important that you honor one another, yes, and that you respect one another, and that you love one another. Like that, that is it in early conversation when I first, you know, met you, uh, because I knew Darren first, like when I met you, I was like, she is very intentional. Like, you know what I'm saying? And so I I I can appreciate that about you, but I can appreciate that about your relationship because I I you all both want to be here. Yes. Right. And you both want to be in it for the long haul. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:22

My favorite tagline is I don't play about my husband. Don't, don't, and you don't.

Advice For Remarriage And Trust

SPEAKER_01 1:20:31

Tell about the smell. Yeah, that joke-like smell. She don't play with me, y'all.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:40

So what kind of uh what as you have, as you are building this marriage to last, what advice would you give to um, I asked you about advice that you would give to uh a man who is navigating this new journey, but now to to you, what kind of advice would you give to a woman who is entering into a relationship, a marriage for the first time with somebody who has been previously married? Like what kind of what advice would you give?

SPEAKER_06 1:21:08

I would say definitely be open with the communication, have hard conversations. I feel like a lot of us shy away from conversations because we are afraid of what our partner may think and or say um during those times. But be open with your communication, be transparent about how you're feeling within your marriage. Because when you're first starting in, you want to be this bright-eyed, bushy-tailed couple. You want all of these things, but there may be some things that come up and know that your spouse should be, it doesn't happen all the time, but they should be your safe space. You should feel comfortable enough to say, hey, you know, babe, I'm I'm feeling X, Y, and Z. Um, but just being transparent, being open, being honest about however you're feeling or whatever is coming up for you in those conversations. And just be okay with having uncomfortable conversations. Ooh, we it's difficult. It's difficult. It's it's just like I tell my students when you're doing therapy. It's okay. You have to have those uncomfortable conversations because if you don't, you don't grow. Correct. I don't know. And be open to receiving feedback. I don't call it constructive criticism, I call it constructive feedback. Okay. Be open to that because I need to know how I'm showing up as a wife. And I do check-ins with them. How are you feeling in this marriage?

SPEAKER_07 1:22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:29

How am I showing up as a wife? Are you satisfied? Are there areas of improvement? Because I can't grow as a wife if you if I'm just always shutting him out, not asking the questions.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:39

I feel like both the spouses should do that. And I told you. And you have to be, but you also have to be open to receive what the other person is saying. Yeah. Because you it that could go left. Yeah. But if you're op but if you're open to receiving, you really want to do the work, then it it it can make a it would make a grand difference.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:00

And I couldn't come in just because we've been knowing each other almost 30 years. I couldn't assume that I knew him.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:05

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:06

I had to relearn him as a grown man that has had a past, that has a you know, a son and all of these things. So just because, like, oh, I've been knowing him since I was 15, I you can't assume that because if we should always be evolving, and if we're not, that's a problem. But yeah, we should always be evolving as humans, and so that's why I always check in with him. Like, hey, like, how are things flowing? Is it something we need to work on? So, yeah, those are the things that I I would say. Okay, okay.

unknown 1:23:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

Anything you well, I know it's directed, but you're now married.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I would just say, just learn to be selfless. Um, you know, one thing my pastor Royal mentioned before, he said the biggest problem in relationships um is selfishness. Everything stems some some from selfishness. And so whether it's like infidelity or uh abuse, abandonment, neglect, whatever, it all stems from from selfishness. So just analyze where you may have a lot of selfish ways within your thinking and or your behaviors, um, and try to heal or unlearn some stuff some stuff. Um and you know, get growth, get help where you need it and grow. Um, you know, you should always want to, like she mentioned, you know, you should always be going to the next level and something growing. Um you know, you you may have been uh this this 20% may have worked with this person before, but now you're with someone else, so now you may need to increase to 40% or 60%, you know, however that may work out for you. So um, but yeah, just be just learn to be selfless. Um it because that that thing it helped me and not just marriage, but in every type of relationship business, um, family, um, just try to be selfless and and and give people grace. Yeah, you know, God gave us grace, he forgave us, learn to forgive. Forgive yourself.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:17

Yeah, forgive yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:18

Forgive yourself. Don't don't hold, you know. I keep saying my pastor, um, but he mentioned everyone is greater than the last mistake. Yes, you know, you are not your last mistake, you are not what you did um that may have offended someone or you know, harmed someone. So yeah, just you know, learn to deal with those inner things, wickedness within yourself that you need to rid yourself of and heal from. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

And I want to piggyback on yours. Everything you say is true, but I just want to add one thing. Um, and you kind of said it, but I just want to make it a little to me just the way I process. Yeah. If you're with man or man or woman, if you're looking about to be married to go into a marriage with someone who's divorced and you love them, but if there's something in there saying no, listen.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:17

Yeah, agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:19

Just because you love them and you want to spend your life with them, but there's something in you that's like, no, yeah, either this is not the time, or you should just not be yoked up with them because listen to because you got only you can protect you.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:36

Exactly. And address and if it needs to be addressed, like she said, bring it up and address it. Because if you don't if you don't address it, you continue on, and if you address it before marriage, it's a lot easier to come up out of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:52

But if you wait and go do go past goal, don't collect$200, and you're now in it, yeah, and then you address it, and the response is not what you desire. Now you've yoked yourself up with this person when you could have just asked the question sooner and made a decision. You know what? As much as I love you, this isn't this doesn't work for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:17

And I'm glad you brought that up because, and this is why I say shout out to my mommy, because when we were dating, she was that person because she, going back to being uh diagnosed with MS, she had seen all the ups and downs, the good, the bad, and the ugly with that. And so her first question to him, she was like, Look, I'm gonna just tell you, okay? My daughter has some health challenges. This is my child. Okay. And she was like, I want to know, can you deal with that? She said, because she don't always have great days. Some days are good and some are not. And I need to know are you able to handle that? Because if you can't, you need to leave her here. Come on. So I can handle it. Because I can handle I'm her mother. But she was like, Like when I give her to you, she's yours. Shout out to Mom. Yeah, she didn't play. And she, I was like, Ma, she was like, No. She was like, Because I need to know. She said, because I don't want you to get out here and somebody can't take care of you, and then you gotta come back to me. And she was like, I want to know. So she was giving him the hundred degree. She did not play, but those were conversations that I wasn't gonna have with him. She was like, Well, if you don't do it, then I'll do it for you. And so she did. And sometimes we need advocate.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:33

That, yes, an advocate, whether it's a good girlfriend that knows you and that can that can that can ask the question, which is this is a whole nother conversation. But I I have to say this do not yoke yourself up with somebody in a silo.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:51

You need a village around you, even if that village consists of two one or two other people. Exactly. You need somebody else to see from the outside, looking in, somebody that you can trust, somebody that's integral, somebody that, you know, knows, knows God, who can help you see what you can't see.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:13

Because I'm seeing from love. I'm I got all the butterflies and all the things, but my mother's like, while I like him, I need to know that he can take care of my child. Because, you know, I don't her thing was I don't want you to go out here with somebody, you get misused or whatever. She was like, I know he's not gonna misuse you. But she was like, I know what comes with health challenges. It can be a lot for people. She was like, so I wanted to know if he could handle that. So yeah, baby, mama, shout out to mama because she's always on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:48

And see, we even got uh counseling before we got engaged. Yeah, okay, we did, you know, I wanted to take it take it a step up. Wow because uh, you know, I've made a I've made a mistake before getting engaged, it didn't work out. Gotcha, you know, gotcha. Um, so save yourself time and energy and money.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:07

Okay, listen, and money. You know, come on, let's be real. And I want to shout out the Sanders because they were the ones who canceled us and they gave us some really good nuggets. We took a lot of things away from them, and so kudos to them because they they got us together. Oh, listen.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:25

It's it sounds like that lifeline community that we're a part of is pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:30

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:33

All right, well, I any any other questions you have?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:38

No. I think I've I think I was hard on DA enough for the You came in hot, you came in hot of water so I can keep moving.

Final Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_00 1:30:54

I love her big roll.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:55

Well, I really appreciate you all taking the time to come and talk with us today and share your story and share your journey in a very honest and transparent way. And I know that this is going to bless some people. I know that it's going to help help some people, and it is our prayer that um that you can take a step back and see yourself maybe through somebody else's story, and it will impact you so that you can maybe make some different decisions.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:27

So um I want to say thank you all for listening. So yes, thank you all for being here. Thank you for co-hosting with me. He's great. He does all right, dumb.

unknown 1:31:39

He does all right.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:40

And I want to say thank you to the listening and the viewing audience for tuning in to another episode of Preston's Purpose. Until next time, continue to press into your purpose. A good one. On the next episode of Preston's Purpose. We resist the sandpaper. If we resist it, we just gonna be out here rough forever.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:09

The biggest part of what you said is um, and what going back to your question of what I learned about myself um in the marriage, I learned that I didn't know anything about myself. So that's hard to come to. Okay, when you say you gotta come knowing yourself. When you don't know yourself, then it's hard to even convey that to somebody else. And when they come to you and say, well, you got this issue, you got that issue. Now, what I know now outside of the marriage is that I know that I did have those issues, but back then all I knew was I wanted to get married. I didn't know I had to know anything about myself.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:14

See you next time.

unknown 1:33:16

Um