Pressed Into Purpose

Divorce Without Shame: What Healed Women Wish They Knew Before Marriage - PIP S2: E5

• Valeria Wright • Season 2 • Episode 5

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We sit down with Marneshia Hiner, Adrienne Crawford, and Katina Griffith to talk about divorce without shame and what healing actually demands. We get honest about boundaries, tools we wish we had before marriage, and the hidden programs that shape how we love and fight.

• divorce as a place of learning and growth 
• marriage timelines and what changed after divorce 
• honoring covenant while still setting boundaries 
• why love alone cannot sustain a marriage 
• purpose and assignment as a dating filter 
• marriage as continual work and the power of words 
• being a wife without the tools for conflict 
• premarital counseling and the “we’re saved so we’re good” trap 
• the need for a wise village and mentor couples 
• accountability, self-examination, and getting to the root of triggers 
• generational beliefs about staying, providing, and survival 


Thanks for listening! 

Until next time, continue to press into your purpose!

You can watch the video and Subscribe on Youtube.com @PressedIntoPurpose or learn more about our host at ValeriaWright.com

Welcome And Panel Setup

SPEAKER_03

Well, hello, and welcome to another episode of Pressed into Purpose. I am so excited for you all to meet my guest on today. Listen, we have a power packed panel on today. I did say panel. We have a power packed panel on today, and we are sharing with some ladies that have uh that have experienced life in a way that is uh wonderful and unique and powerful. And so this season we're talking about marriage. And today's panel, I am talking to a group of women that have been divorced, but that are are far along in their healing journey. So I just want to introduce them to you today. We have Sister Marnesha Heiner, we have Sister Adrien Crawford, and we have Sister Katina Griffith. And I just want to say welcome, welcome, welcome, ladies, to Preston to Purpose. I'm so glad to have y'all here.

Three Words Self-Introductions

SPEAKER_03

So I want to start the conversation, and typically I introduce, you know, all of my guests, and I and I've introduced you and shared your names, but I want you all to tell us a little bit about yourselves. So I'm gonna ask that you would take a moment, and if somebody asked you to describe yourself, how would you describe yourself in three words? And anybody can start.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm Marnicia. Um, I would say that I am supportive. I'm the supportive friend, um, I'm nurturing and I'm funny.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Well, since Marnisha started, since Adrian.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I'm Adrian. I am a career paralegal professional. So I have a super serious side. I make sure that everything, all the ducks are in a row. But I'm crazy too now, you know. I'm your good girlfriend, I'm your auntie, I'm gonna give you the truth. Yes, yes. You might even get prayer.

SPEAKER_03

Come on, give it to the people, okay?

SPEAKER_01

How would you describe yourself, Katina? Okay, I am Katina. Okay. How would I describe myself? Wow. I am driven. Okay. I would say that um I'm very passionate about things that I love. Um I have two sides. I have a side that um is quiet because I am a firm believer of um letting God pour, right? And when you are a pourer, you have to take those moments to be refilled, right? Um, so I have that quiet side while I'm still away. But yeah, I got a crazy side like AVC, you know. I mean, I have and I have the humorous side too, but um absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, okay. So we got a good group of uh serious, but also, you know, humorous and laid back and just uh we we had a good group of ladies today. Y'all know a little bit about me, you know what I'm saying? I'm I'm gonna laugh, okay? I'm gonna get my laugh on. You know that about me, but I can also get right to it.

Divorce As A Learning Place

SPEAKER_03

So let's get into the topic of the day. We we are talking about divorce, um, and some people say it's a dirty word. I don't say it's a dirty word. I say that it is a place of learning if you choose for it to be that. So I'm gonna ask uh each of you, how long were you married? And

Marriage Lengths And Divorce Timelines

SPEAKER_03

then how long have you been divorced? So let's start there um with Katina.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. So I was married um almost 20 years. Okay. Um I have been legally divorced what we just almost six years now. Okay, okay, almost six years.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, Adria. Okay, um, I'm the Jah Gabor of the Guru. I've been married um to two separate gentlemen twice each. Really? Circle block on it. Okay, okay, okay, okay. She spent the first one. The first one, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, they spent the first one.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And so um the first time, the first gentleman I was married to, a grand total of 10 years. Okay. And the second gentleman, um, around that time, eight, nine, ten years. Okay. Once we wrapped that thing up.

SPEAKER_03

And since and how long since the second divorce? It's been about six years. Okay. Okay. All right. And Marisha.

SPEAKER_00

Uh, so I got married in 2011. Um, we got a divorce in 2017. Okay. But um, like Adrian said, we kind of circled the block a couple of times after the divorce. And so from 2017 to about 2021, we were going back and forth from whether we wanted to work it out and everything. And then so since 2021 is when we broke away. So it's been four years since we are not talking, have an engagement. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Okay.

What Marriage Taught Us

SPEAKER_03

So the the then the question becomes what did you learn about yourself in the marriage? And then what have you learned about yourself since being out of the marriage?

SPEAKER_01

Ooh, that's a deep question. So we're gonna go deep that deep that deep. Yes, we just did it. We didn't took a bunch of that. We took me all the time.

SPEAKER_04

Make it off. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So part one of that question was what did I learn about myself in the marriage? Okay. Um, that I would say that I have and always will honor the covenant of marriage. That is huge to me. And even um with the transitions and that I went through, I didn't change my confession on that to the end. So I learned that about myself, that I I still have that, um, even though I'm progressive, I still have that traditional foundation as as far as how I see marriage. So that was one of the things I learned in there. Um, outside of that, I would say the biggest lesson after that once a divorce, for me, my biggest lesson was um this might be a little lengthy. Um, we got to answer I got a few. One was boundaries. Okay. Um, I learned about boundaries. I think when we think about boundaries, we think in terms of um your enemy. We don't think in terms of as people we love, um, family, spouses, and things like that. So um I learned that even with those that you loved, you have to set a boundary. Yes. Um, if you don't, they'll, you know, it'll continue that and it'll get worse as it goes along. It doesn't get better by you saying, oh, well, because I love them. Yes, we we have grace and we give grace, but grace doesn't abound so that you can keep sinning and make you do. Come on, word. But um, just say that with it. So the boundaries was is really big. And I think that's an ongoing process for me, too, because I think when we love people, we forget about those boundaries. Yes. They fall down. Um, but those bound God even placed boundaries around us, right? Absolutely. So even with those that you love, um, you have to have boundaries, and they're not necessarily for the people on the outside, they're really for you. To protect you and to protect your heart and your heart and your joy. Um, so they're really for you. Yes. So that was that was one of the biggest things I think I I learned. Um, the other thing was um in marriage, um, you know, when I was coming up the traditional way, you you find somebody, you find, you know, you get along, you're attracted to them, you love them, you fall in love. This is a good spouse. This is a good man. And so that that that's the way that I came from. Well, fast forward, it takes more than love. Yes, yes. Oh my goodness, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do they do now? That's getting it takes more than love. So, my approach, um, and I learned this some of this inside of marriage, right? Um, some of these lessons inside of marriage, and then some um, you know, Holy Spirit taught me as as I was going through that um divorce. But it takes more than love, it takes discipline. And, you know, there's a whole slew and list of things, but looking for a mate now for me is a lot different than it was then. And the the huge thing is purpose. Yes, come on, come on, say it. Purpose. Say it on the purpose. Say that. It is about purpose and assignment. Yeah. My my 20-year-old self didn't know that. And we have to make sure that we're teaching the younger groups. Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. It's it's more than love, it's more than an attraction. It's not a business for those of those that's out here thinking that too. No, it's purpose, it's assignment. So when you think about that, you should approach it that way as well as dating. So that that was a huge lesson for me. Yeah. Huge lesson for me.

SPEAKER_03

I I I want to talk about, we're gonna get together. We're gonna get together. But I'm gonna have some discourse around this. Um, so you mentioned uh one of the things was boundaries. OMG,

Boundaries And Self-Respect

SPEAKER_03

how many of us don't have boundaries? How many of us walk through life, not just not just you know, in marriage, but we don't have work boundaries, we don't have family relationship boundaries, we don't have uh, you know, partner uh marriage boundaries, we don't have friend boundaries. We we we just walk around and what it just whatever whatever is is gonna happen, it's gonna happen. No, sometimes you have to, and really all the time you need guardrails. Yes. Because nobody is going to, if you don't treat yourself well, nobody else is going to treat you well. If you don't respect yourself, nobody else is going to respect you. You have to show people how to treat you by the way you show up. And showing up includes what are my guards, what are my boundaries? What are my what are what are the things that I'm just not going to tolerate? What are my absolutes? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Talk about that. Talk about that. What are my absolutes? It's just so funny that I was listening to Katina talk about what we are preconditioned to do. And with my first marriage, I met somebody, I liked him, he liked me, and I thought that little sanctified girls got together with little sanctified boys, and God was gonna bless it, and everything was gonna combine. And that is so not all of it. Yes. Um, as our pastor says so eloquently, two things can be true at the same time. It is accurate, but it's incomplete. Yes, God will um bless it, but you gotta know some things about the person and and and recognize things about an individual and compatibility and and alignment with purpose and all of the things. Yeah. And so it's funny, it's strange. I'm gonna back out of that one. I'm gonna back right back. Tough like that.

SPEAKER_03

They are tough. But so uh I want to also want to talk about another thing that you see you mentioned. You said love is not enough. So I didn't always believe that to be true. I didn't always believe that. I was like, love is all you need. As long as you get love, love as long as we love each other, it's gonna be all right. And then you get in that thing, and you like, what in the what is happening in here? What is going on? And um, wait, we might need, we might need a little respect. Yeah, absolutely. We we might stop we we might need some uh finances. We might need to be on the same page about more than we just love Jesus. You see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02

You have to like them. You have to like them. For real, and that was one of the things that I hung my hat on with number three and four. Um if I can laugh about this, anybody can laugh about it. But that was my friend. And so I went into it not under the oh, that's my boo. He's so fine, and he can really dress, and oh, he's anointed. That was my friend, that was my boy, and so I recognized shortcomings. I recognized when I liked him and then the personalities that I didn't necessarily gel with. And so you think that you have all of the information, but oh, when you don't, yeah, yeah, it's rough, it's rough, but you have to like them. You gotta like them in all of the seasons. In all of the seasons, in poverty and riches, sickness and health. Sickness and health.

SPEAKER_03

So, what did you learn about yourself?

When Marriage Pulls Out Shadow

SPEAKER_02

Tell us. I always like to tell people that I pride myself of being a woman of dimension. And so during my marriage, particularly the second numbers with the second gentleman. Okay, I realized I had this distinct personality in her name. I've named her. She's Shakuita Watkins. Okay, okay, okay, all right. I don't like her. Oh. I don't like her. She's mean and she's just a little, but that person drew that personality out of me after a lot of a lot of forbearance, a lot of love, a lot of grace, a lot of understanding, a lot of cash. And then you get Shaquita when none of the other things line up. So I learned that as a whole, I learned that little sanctified girls do get together with little sanctified boys, and we pray and ask the Lord to bless it, but there is more work to be done. Absolutely. Um, there I also learned, as with gentleman number two, there were no less than 40 or 50 prophetic words over our lives. We would be in church services, you know, we're a church culture, and prophets would come and we would be on opposite sides of the room serving, and they would connect us in the spirit and say, I do you know this woman or do you know this guy? And thus saith the Lord. And we believe to be, we began to believe what God had spoken, but there's got to be a condition to every prophetic word. We believed it and walked out on it, but as you walk out on it, you have some parts to play. Absolutely. Otherwise, you begin to treat it like a magic trick. Absolutely. Like, you know, he that findeth a wife obtaineth favor from the Lord. And you want the favor, but you don't want to be the covering.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Yeah, you gotta you gotta be this is work. Yes, it is. If if I've learned nothing else about marriage, I've learned that it is work. It is work, and and so I knew it was work going in, y'all. But what I didn't know that I was gonna have to keep working. Yes. That was the part that I that I felt like after about five, six years, we was gonna be able to coast. No, and when the coast never came, I was like, what is happening right now?

SPEAKER_01

You dig in. It's continual. Yes, it is continual, and not just in marriage, but any relationship, right? Yeah, um, in order for you to grow. It is a continual process. And I am a firm believer that all the fruits of the spirits, all of that is practice in marriage.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

You last how else, how else are we, how we, how else are we gonna obtain it? You obtain it in relationships, yes. Yes. How do I know peace unless I have chaos? And you know, and I learn how to respond to that. What does God say about that? How should I respond to my maid and how my partner unless I have it?

SPEAKER_03

If we did more of that, God, how do I respond instead of just responding in our flesh? Yes. If we did so much more of that, oh my god, just and it don't have to be a shana, you know what I'm saying? But but just the just a moment. Yes, yes, just pause for a moment. But before I say something, yes, let me okay, I don't need to say that. Okay, okay. Because a lot of times God be trying to stop using. He really does. He does. He like, don't, don't, and we like let me tell you, you know. God is like, we look up and I had it, I had it, but you took you just snatched the button. And now we all on off all the wheels. You know what I'm saying? And then now we now we in territory we can't even come back from. No, because we didn't listen to that still small voice and said, no, don't don't say that.

SPEAKER_01

And words do hurt. They really do. They do. The biggest lie I've ever told is that they don't hurt, they do hurt, and some things are hard to come back from. Absolutely. There's life or death in the tongue. Yes, yes. We have to choose, you know, how we're gonna build with that brick that we're given. Are you gonna help me build this house? Are you gonna tear it down with that brick? Are you gonna throw bricks at me and tear this house down? Right. Absolutely. Yeah, we're we're all guilty of those moments. Yeah, absolutely.

Wife Heart Without Wife Tools

SPEAKER_00

Miss Marnacia, tell us. So I echo everything that Katina and Adrian said, but one thing that I would say is um for me, what I what I learned about myself within the marriage, um I was a wife and I had the characteristics, but I didn't have the tools to be a wife. Umpack that for real.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

You know, we are I think that some of us are created to be wives. Like we're just have that innate ability to be one. And as you grow up in the Baptist church, you know, you see all these wonderful couples, you hear all the um marriage talk, you hear that, you know, you're supposed to be married. You you you you meet this sanctified boy, and y'all just say, y'all come together and y'all just gonna get married. Yeah. And that that was what I heard at the age of 30 when I got married. Um, and so it was like, okay, this is what we're doing. You know, he liked me, I like him, but I ignored all of the red flags. I heard about us. I ignored all of the um, you know, he had previous children before we got married, um, and I ignored the relationship we had with the mothers. I ignored um different characteristics that he carried and and and and different little things that happened. I just was so smitten about being married that and wanting the fairy tale, yeah, white picket fence, the house, the kids, all of the things. Yeah. Um, and so when I say about wife things, that's that's wife things growing up. Okay, okay. But I didn't have the tools and knowing how to keep marriage, how to um, you know, come against the conflicts that were coming. I didn't have conflict resolution, I didn't have, you know, um the ability to know that I had a voice in my marriage. Come on. And to know, to tell, to say, I need this, I want this. Okay. I thought everything was just supposed to be we're riding in on this, you know, white horse, and we're gonna get this house, we're gonna have these kids. Yeah, yeah. That's the way it's gonna be great. That's the way the life is supposed to be. I didn't know nothing about having a conversation. I didn't know nothing about communicating and knowing what I needed in the marriage. And so I I lacked those abilities and I didn't know how to have boundaries or to know to say that no, I don't like that. No, and have a conversation about it. And so yeah, that's what I learned about myself inside.

SPEAKER_03

You made me think about a question. So

Premarital Counseling Myths In Church

SPEAKER_03

in in each of your stories, um was did you all have uh premarital counseling in any of those, in any of your situations?

SPEAKER_01

I think that's a really good question. Yes, it is that I would love to share on because um we I think we all kind of talked about um so we didn't choose people that weren't in Christ. We we actually chose people in the church. I was married to a minister. Um one of the biggest facades, I believe, that um the enemy put on us was that you both say, you know the word, you'll be okay. Right? Um from my end, I thought there was more that we needed to do counseling. From his end, um he was like, we're straight, we're good, we both go to church, we're in Christ. And that gave the enemy a foothold, right? Because I was in there and I still did my work outside of him, which is which is I think it's very strange. Um so I went, I still did some marital counseling, which was outside of him, right? Um before the marriage with yeah, prior to the marriage, you know, because he was just like, oh yeah, I can't make it, but we're good, you know. Even, you know, um his mentor who was married us, he even said, like, oh, you guys are good. And I think that that was the biggest trick trick. Like I was doing my due diligence um to equip myself, but my mate wasn't. And I think a lot of that was why we had a lot of strife, right? Because it was, you know, his his concept may have been um, I'm saved, so we good. I'm I'm I'm just gonna know what to do. But you haven't walked out those fruits of the spirit. Yeah, you know, um that's a trick of the enemy. You know, you need more in common than okay, uh we clap on the two and the four and the three. Right, right, right, yeah, right. We both know who God is, yeah. But have you sat with God? Do you are we living and becoming those teachings? Yes, I was about becoming those teachings. You have to have someone who understands that you should always be growing. Yes, there's always work to do. You just can't be like, oh, I've arrived. I think that's the biggest trick.

SPEAKER_03

Because we've never, you've never arrived. If you're still alive, you have not arrived.

SPEAKER_01

Never listen, never, and I have not. I think that is one of the biggest tricks, and why a lot of people are getting divorced. You think you've arrived. You know, I'm we're speaking from uh a Christian perspective, and we know God. And right we know the word. What I think is a trick. Oh, I know I'm not knowing the word. No, there's still work to do to every promise. There's always a condition listed before every promise. There's still work to do. And when you get in a space, um, both spouses, whatever side is, where you think you don't have to work, that's when the enemy, yeah, let me step on it. Yes, let me step on it.

SPEAKER_03

All he needs is a little crack. That says, and he will walk right on in and tell some stuff to tell stuff. And he don't, he don't come in all the time like with the sledgehammer. He just comes in little little little thoughts. Yeah. Little it's a gradual thing. Little, you know, little things that'll that'll happen. And then you you're like, wait a minute. No, that ain't that. That can't be that. And and you brush it off, and then that same little thing come back up maybe a year later, and you like, what no, that ain't. That ain't. We're not looking at the patterns. No. We're not because we're thinking it's an isolated situation. Let me

Private Marriage Versus Wise Village

SPEAKER_03

let me ask this question. We talked about this a little bit before before we were uh before we start recording, but in a lot of African-American homes, we were taught, we were told, you keep, you don't, you don't, what stay what happened in this house, stay in this house. You don't go spreading your business, you don't go, you know, talking about what happens here. The gener our our parents' generation, that was what we were taught. Now we're coming to a different understanding that no, you don't have to tell every detail of your business, but you do need somebody to talk to. You do need a and and and not just anybody to talk to, right? You need somebody that has some wisdom. Yeah. You need somebody who has um who has your best interest at heart. And so can we talk about a village? Like, do you do you have or did you have a village at that time? Do you have a village now? And like, let's just let like just in the marriage, let's talk about in the marriage. Did you have a village or at least somebody that you could reach out to and talk to that would give you sound advice that wasn't I gotta I gotta put this on there, that wasn't based solely on their experience. Because you know, sometimes people mean well and all they have is their experience, but they don't, but wisdom goes past your experience. Yeah. Yes. And wisdom will say, even though this was my experience, this is what I need to share with you. So did you have a village that had that was able to share some wisdom with you during that time?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, okay, first um, so the interesting thing is um we a group of us all kind of got married around at the same time and had our children. Okay. You know, wives and all their husbands are ministers. So we were all kind of doing this thing together. Okay, okay, okay. Um so I would say to lean on them for wisdom, not yeah. Um there were um some I had, you know, people outside of I would say the church, I wouldn't lean on them. Okay. Um just from seeing how they dealt with relationships, right? So, like you said, we were taught to be quiet, you don't tell people your business. Um I did have one older couple once in the church who I admired, right? Just their interaction and and they had been married like 40 something years at that time. Okay. Um and I got some really bad advice from them. I would I would never forget that. So, you know, you have to use discernment. Yes. Um, yes, you have to use discernment. Um so I would say I didn't really have that village. I almost and I and and I don't say this to boast, I almost felt like what I knew and what God was teaching me was ahead of what they knew. Um that was a tough place to be in. So what I did is I went internal and I just talked to God and I just covered his nakedness, you know. So you you didn't know, no one would have ever known. They were all shocked when I'm like, oh yeah, we're we're not together anymore because that's how well I covered his nakedness. And that's what we should do. We should don't get me wrong, as a spout, absolutely. We should be covering his other nakedness. But it would have been great to have a couple that had been in this thing some time. Um and I did meet a couple later on, you know, in the thing, um, who kind of affirmed some things to me, but by that time, you know, it was too far gone. It was too far gone. You know what I mean? It would have been great to have a mentor. And when I say mentor, somebody married 20 plus years. Say that again for the people because you need to go through some things, some seasons first, right? And you need some biblical foundation. You shouldn't be listening to anybody about relationships that does not have a biblical foundation. It'll send you off every time. Don't don't do that. So I would I would just shut down because I was like, okay, well, I I can't talk to you because you know, y'all, y'all over, y'all cheating. Only y'all cheating. I see you. Like, I it was it I did not have that. I wish I would have, but I um I thank God for our help of the Holy Ghost because that's who I took it to.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah, okay, okay. I think for me, um, it was all couples within the church that I was going to. So we created a life group, and so we we we um yeah, I thought it was nice to so we were we were amongst these couples that you know some some had some tenure uh up on us, but some were fairly newly married as well, too. But it also um it it kind of got murky because they started to feel some type of way about my husband or knew some things about him. Okay. And so it kind of got murky because it was almost like it was going against him and it would put me in an awkward position because it it it was it too intimate too fast? I think it was too intimate too fast, and it and it changed it's it's an interesting dynamic because it was the church that I was going to, and so he was brought into the church. So some of those people were already my friends before and so he just came into the fold. Gotcha. And so it was kind of, you know. I mean, that's different, that's different, yeah, and so um, you know, we we we tried to um, you know, have these relationships with them, and it it it started off okay, yeah, but it also wasn't good, you know, we didn't have good information that was given to us to be able to sustain our marriage. And so we started to get outside counsel um from, you know, people that have been married longer than us, but then he got to a space that he didn't want to do that anymore. And I I felt like, you know, it was because he didn't want to uncover some of the things about himself to people because he was walking in a ministerial position, and so it was kind of like he didn't want to uncover himself as to make him look look bad and look a certain way, and so it it it almost was like we would have one meeting with and it would go good, and then he was like, No, I don't want to go back, and so because when we go back, I'm gonna we're gonna have to get the it's gonna expose some some areas that I don't want to expose, and and some of the areas that I haven't even told you that you're gonna find out.

When Counseling Becomes A Performance

SPEAKER_01

I eventually found out later, but listen, and that I I this is uh really tickling me because it it bought to a memory that what I forgot that happened. So we did counsel with one couple. Um, I remember, and I I'll never forget that. He was the same way, right? Because he was in a ministerial position. Um and you do, you have to cover them, right? Yes. You can't go to you got to use discernment who you can talk to. Absolutely. You you you can't share with everybody. So, you know, I get the secrecy and everything, but um, we should have been praying for the Lord to send us someone to do that. But we had we did have a couple, this one couple, and we did counseling with them. I would never forget this moment, right? Because I'm just like, yeah, finally, you know, they're gonna hear. I can tell them, you know. Listen, tell them about how you need to have these gloves doors. Because we don't know if we're gonna talk about it today. And Lord, we came up in that this couple's house, and he was like, baby, let me pull out your seat. How you doing?

SPEAKER_03

You put some more than you really keeping up keeping up appearances. Listen.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, I'm I'm I'm very transparent. Little transparency. Literally, and I don't know how it was to be. That's just how big it made me. Yeah, that's how he made me. I know you're funny. And so I was like, they was like, so we ready to begin. Katina, you want to start? I said, let's pause first. And they was like, what? I said, I don't know this man. Uh-uh. He said, he does not treat me like this. This is not how he speaks to me in loving kindness. We don't pull out the thing on the field. Listen, you pull the back of the potato. I said, if we're gonna get some counseling, I need you to bring the real nigga to the table. Right. Because the real Katina is here. Right. Let's talk about it. I got issues, you got an issue. Let's work this thing out. And baby, that counseling session was short because he did not, baby, he would not release anything out of his nap. He didn't. You know, we have to be um, if we're gonna grow and we wanna heal, we have to be honest with ourselves. Let him examine himself. Absolutely. Examine himself daily, right? We have to be honest, like we all have flaws. None of us are perfect. We have to listen to one another. Okay, this is how you see me, this is how I see you. Let's meet in the middle.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, how how can we fix it for both of us? Yeah. But when you're you're in that thing and you're not gonna be honest, and one person is just pointing at the next, you'll never move forward. Never.

SPEAKER_00

Never because after you share that information, you have to hold yourself accountable to make sure you do the work to change you. And so that's what it was. You don't want to hold yourself accountability accountable for that.

SPEAKER_03

That's the work people do not want to be held accountable. Not even to themselves. They don't want to be held accountable. So

The Brutal Gift Of Self-Honesty

SPEAKER_03

I want to Okay, so actually, by the time this airs, people would have people will have heard me and my husband's story, yeah. And part of that story is we separated twice, okay? And so what a lot of people don't know is that that second time that we separate, so we we separated twice, and it was about a I get a I guess an eight-year difference between the the two separations. But I'm laughing because I'm saying to myself, hmm, there are I always said he had 80% of the problems and I had 20%, right? That's the way I felt. Um whether it was true or not. It was true to me. Okay. Everybody's perspective. That's right.

SPEAKER_01

Guilty.

SPEAKER_03

And so I was like, well, until he started working on his 80%, I'm not finna do no with my 20. Because I'm good. I'm pretty good. You see what I'm saying? That was how I felt from my perspective. That second separation, I prayed and said, God, show me myself. Because like, how do we get here again? Like, I don't understand. This this is trash. I don't understand. Yeah. And when God began to show me myself, and he began to show me my little 20%, it was nasty and it was ugly, and I was like, clutching my literal pearls. That's me, God. That's how I've been showing up in the marriage. So when you talk about people have to be honest, we first have to be honest with ourselves. And I feel like a lot of times we don't want to be honest with ourselves about where we truly are and what crap we are bringing into the situation. Because we all have some crap. Absolutely, we all have some issues, we all have some baggage, we all have something that we've brought from our, you know, from our, as our uh pastor talks about our historic makeup. We all have something that we brought with us into this situation, whether it's good, bad, indifferent, and we have to acknowledge it. Yes. And then once you acknowledge it, then you have to do something about it. What the

Marriage As Sandpaper And Mirror

SPEAKER_03

best analogy that I heard about marriage, um, early in our marriage, I want to say around year seven or so, the church that we attended at the time, they had a marriage conference, and the speaker said, he said, marriage is like sandpaper. You are rubbing the rough edges off of one another. So you live with that person all the time. They see the real you behind closed doors. And there is some stuff about you that is not nice. Yes. And because they're with you all the time, they're going to point out the things that the folks that don't live with you see, don't see. They don't see that part of you. But your husband, your wife, your spouse, they they they see that stuff. And so they're like, uh, that's you need to, you, you need to, and and it doesn't feel good. No. It doesn't feel good, it doesn't, it doesn't look good. But if we don't, if we resist the sandpaper, if we resist it, we just gonna be out here rough forever.

SPEAKER_00

But the biggest part of what you said is, um, and what going back to your question of what I learned about myself um in the marriage, I learned that I didn't know anything about myself. So that's hard to come to when you okay. When you say you gotta come knowing yourself, when you don't know yourself, then it's hard to even convey that to somebody else. And when they come to you and say, well, you got this issue, you got that issue. No, I don't know. But coming to that question now, what I know now, outside of the marriage, is that I know that I did have those issues, but back then all I knew was I wanted to get married.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't know I had to know anything about my identity is very important. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Self-esteem, you don't know what you're giving away, you don't know what you're sharing, you don't know what needs to be fine-tuned, you don't know what needs, and marriage is all is sandpaper, but it's also a mirror. Oh, yeah. And so the thing that is ugliest and most insecure and most evil shows up in that mirror when you get married, and you got to look that booger in the face and deal with that thing because it shows up in your spouse. Yes, yes, whether you receive it or not.

Getting To The Root Of Triggers

SPEAKER_03

So dealing with it, what does that mean to deal with it? Like once you once you see something or recognize something about yourself, or once somebody has pointed something out, what does it mean to deal with it?

SPEAKER_02

You have to sit with it, you have to acknowledge that there is a possibility that I am not perfect.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

You're gonna be gonna be able to do it. That's my little bit of my anointed. You have to just acknowledge and be willing to dig that thing. Absolutely. Because it's gonna show up, but when it shows up, you have to go down and find. Out where did it come from?

SPEAKER_03

Where did it come from?

SPEAKER_02

Because triggers will make it show up, absolutely. But where did it come from? What's the genesis of that? What is it rooted in? Yeah, yeah. It's important.

SPEAKER_01

So that's what it looks like for me. Okay. Okay. Yeah. One thing I I noticed about flaws is that um, and we all have them. Yes, we do. But if you don't deal with those things, you know, some of those things, because we're not gonna get them all worked out before marriage, those things are magnified in marriage. Absolutely. That's that's one thing I've seen. It may look like this on this level, but once I, you know, cleave to my spouse 200 times. Right, you know, and my spouse is seeing that thing a hundred times a day. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So it magnifies. It magnifies. That's why these premarital counseling and these conversations, you know, we need to be strategic about these. You know, what if this happened? Like, how would you respond? You know, how do you feel about this so that you can know how that person thinks, right? Yes. Um, and like Adrian said, um, first we have to admit that there's an issue, right? Yes, that's that's how we get to the root of it, right? And then take it to God. Lord, help help fix me. Yeah, okay, because let's just be honest. It's the real prayer. Our prayer is normally fixed up. Let's fix it too. Do you see him? Do you see him? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03

I see him, but I see you too.

SPEAKER_01

I remember what this is your man, you're about to do like no. Every time you fix you. Let me fix you. You done came out of that closet. Now go back in. Yes. Go back in. Let me never go back in there. Make him go in there. Like he can't go in. Right.

SPEAKER_03

Get back in that prayer closet. We have to get on your knees.

SPEAKER_01

Be willing to give that grace and forgiveness, which is something that we have to do over and over, over and over. Get the root. Yes. Anytime you think about it, forgive again. Um but we have to be willing to admit it, be accountable. It's there, take it to God, and get to the root of it. Like, where did this come from? Yeah. Yeah. Um, why am I popping off in these scenarios? Well, you know, why I'm popping off in these scenarios? Because I grew up in a household here. And in this household, this is how we work. I was told this is how it how it works. And so now I'm frustrated because it's not working that way.

SPEAKER_00

You're not acting like I thought you should. Exactly. And it's like, this is not the program. This is not the problem.

SPEAKER_03

Let's pause right there because we also need to recognize that we are individuals. Yes. Yes. We are all unique. We all have a background. Yes. We all have a way that either we were told or we were shown how it was going to be. And or how it should be. And we were, we either made the decision to say, I want it to be like this, or I don't want it anymore.

Identity And Purpose Alignment

SPEAKER_03

I don't want it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

The polar opposite. Yes, right. Yes. That's right.

SPEAKER_03

But what I've learned in my marriage is if you don't want that, if you don't take the time to have some uh honest conversations with yourself, or discover things about yourself, you unknowingly walk right into that same cycle. Because that's what's in you that you didn't know. That's right. And so then you end up showing up in a way that you weren't trying to show up. Yes. But that's what you know. Yes. That's right. Because that's what's in you. Yes. And so then now you're in conflict with this other person who's showing up probably a way they don't realize they're showing up. And now you got a mess on your hands and you don't even know what to do. Because neither one of you. How did I get it? You took some time to even, and and I'm I'm not I'm not against people getting married young. Because whether you're young or old, that doesn't dictate maturity. The age, the number doesn't dictate maturity. You have to take some time and evaluate who am I? Who do I want to become? Yes. And then how do I want to get there?

SPEAKER_00

And it takes both people to do that. One person can do it, but it takes both.

SPEAKER_01

And that goes back to that purpose, right? Yes. Because I I can I can follow these ways and these instructions of my divine instruction all day long.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

But if that, which the other individual is doing, doesn't fit into my purpose, there's gonna be that fanpap. There's gonna be that clashing of a thing.

SPEAKER_00

So but that's something that you don't learn growing up. No, you don't know. I didn't know that in my 20s. To find somebody that you're gonna have purpose with, you're gonna be aligned with. I like you fine. Let's make my baby. Let's make everybody fine. I like him. Let's do the thing. You don't talk about, you know, but that also goes back to you knowing yourself. Because if you don't know your purpose, if you don't know how you're aligned, then you can't possibly know when that person presents themselves. That's true if you guys are going to align together.

SPEAKER_01

That goes back to identity. Absolutely. Knowing your identity in Christ before you bring somebody else into your mess. Before that's right, right? Let's let's just be honest.

SPEAKER_03

And we're not and we're not gonna have it all together. We're not saying you're never gonna have it all together. You're never going to be perfect and ready for this thing. But you can be a little further along in the journey. Absolutely. That's what we're saying.

SPEAKER_01

You know, and and I believe when you, you know, if that's your mindset, your mindset is purpose. I'm gonna get the tools I need, I'm gonna be intentional about these tools. We can get over anything. Yeah. If that is our mindset, our it's when our, I agree. Um we can get over anything. And and so that's the thing. That's the thing with the unity. That's the thing with becoming flesh and becoming one. A lot of us don't become one in marriage. We're married, but we don't become one. Yeah. And so, yeah, so now you you pull it. You know? Um it takes two. A relationship is two, and there's there's there's fault and there's accountability on every side. Absolutely. Every side. Every side.

SPEAKER_02

And there's programs running in the background of both of us individually that we're dealing with. I think the word refers to it as you got demons running. I don't ascribe to that. I call them programs. You

The Programs We Bring Into Love

SPEAKER_02

have programs. Um, you came from a household where mama went and bought hot dogs, and she bought five, it was five of us in the house, and there were five packs of hot dogs. And when the first pack of hot dogs was out, then you went to the next pack and on and on. And everyone had hot dogs until there were no hot dogs in the house.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

But if he grew up in a house of five people and mama bought a pack of hot dogs for every person, and when daddy finished his pack, he couldn't eat mama's. Okay. It was like, this is mine, it's got my name on it. Then you're dealing with that program that is running in the background. Yes. If you were raised by, I was raised by my grandmother, we were talking about counsel. Yeah. My grandmother um had two husbands, and it was a till death do us part for both of the husbands. Okay. So that's a beautiful testimony. But what she said to me was, Adrian, you don't leave your husband because he's cheating. You leave him because he's not providing. They're going to cheat. Excuse me. Wow. And different generations accepted different things, yeah? It was my righteous indignation. It's like, oh, the devil is a liar. I want my own husband to me somewhere. I will not care for the mama. No mama. But this program is running in the background. So when you go in your first marriage, she said they're gonna cheat. She said they're gonna cheat. So just get the check. Just get the check. Just get the so that's running in the background. Like, okay, you go ahead. And it's a condition.

SPEAKER_03

Can we can we can we and we can we talk about it? Can we unpack that a little bit? Because

Generational Survival Rules Revisited

SPEAKER_03

I don't, I don't wanna I don't wanna skim over that because that was a that's a generational thing. It is because it is in our parents' generation and our grandparents' generation, women didn't have a lot of the rights or privileges that we have. They didn't leave. That we had to and because one of the reasons why they didn't leave is because they would have been in financial ruin.

SPEAKER_02

He's the pot and the window. You see what I'm saying? And they didn't have the education, yeah, right? That's true.

SPEAKER_03

It's so many different things that women even got rights.

SPEAKER_01

It really hasn't been that long.

SPEAKER_03

I am the first person in my family to be born with all of my, like a the woman in my family. I have three older sisters, of course a mother. I am the first one to be born with all of my rights. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

All of the rights. It really wasn't that long ago. It wasn't. It was since like the 70s. Exactly. I came from a place that you don't leave. Like um, regardless. Exactly. Stay with your family, take everything. Don't say, oh, he got a team, he got 20 million people, he's abusing you verbally, don't even matter. But you don't leave. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Don't leave your family. That's right. He'll be back. That's right. Let's just make sure on the 15th and the 30th he drops the check off. And so that makes a condition. Okay, but bring the check. Oh, he can stop bringing the check. Well, it's time for this to end. It's coming to a close because the check didn't come. 16 booze. But you didn't bring the direct.

SPEAKER_00

That's a lot of ways. Which one 16 got me checked?

SPEAKER_02

Got me checked.

SPEAKER_03

On the next episode of Preston's Purpose.

Choosing To Heal After Divorce

SPEAKER_03

Choosing to heal. What has that looked like?

SPEAKER_02

It starts and ends with being 100% honest about how you feel. Okay. It is a day to day, sometimes hour to hour. And because it is a death, it steps through the stages of grief. You are going to be angry. You are going to be in denial. You are going to accept eventually. You're going to. There were days when I literally had to go to God. And this is where I coined the phrase, God can be trusted with our humanity. And so I went to God. I said, God, I don't like him. He's a liar and I want something to happen to him. I want him to fall and bust his head wide open to the white beach. But I didn't take that to another person. I took that. Right back, right, right, right, right, right. I took it to God. He knows what you're thinking anyway. But I was, I got in a season where whatever it was that I was feeling, I took those raw feelings to God. And God, as I took them to him, God took them and he began to dismantle them. All right. And heal them and apply the bomb that only God can give you. And to give you the beauty for those ashes, because I was I was angry. I was resentful. I was like, I did everything the way you said to do it, and this is my portion.