Pressed Into Purpose

Part 2 Divorce without Shame -You Cannot Heal What You Hide From God: PIP S2 E6

• Valeria Wright • Season 2 • Episode 6

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We continue our conversation with Marneshia Hiner, Adrienne Crawford, and Katina Griffith and get honest about marriage, separation, and divorce through the lens of faith, naming what breaks trust and what it takes to rebuild a life with peace. We talk boundaries, shame, healing, and why your worst season does not get to define your identity. 


• generational survival and why many women could not leave 
• abuse beyond physical harm and how it passes forward 
• hyper-independence as a response to broken trust 
• redefining submission as mutual trust and shared decisions 
• spiritual warfare language and refusing to fight each other 
• prayer with practical steps like counseling and boundaries 
• shame, grief, and choosing to move forward 
• breaking points, separation, and when communication dies 
• healing practices including honesty with God, therapy, support, and self reflection





Thanks for listening! 

Until next time, continue to press into your purpose!

You can watch the video and Subscribe on Youtube.com @PressedIntoPurpose or learn more about our host at ValeriaWright.com

Why Women Could Not Leave

SPEAKER_04

On this episode, we continue our conversation. Women didn't have a lot of the rights or privileges that we had. They didn't leave. That we had to. One of the reasons why they didn't leave is because they would have been in financial ruin.

SPEAKER_05

He's the pot in the window. You see what I'm saying? And they didn't have the education, right? That's true.

SPEAKER_04

Women even got rights.

SPEAKER_06

It really hasn't been that long.

SPEAKER_04

I am the first person in my family to be born with all of my, like the woman in my family. I have three older sisters, and of course a mother. I am the first one to be born with all of my rights. Wow.

SPEAKER_06

Wow.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_06

All of the rights. It really wasn't that long ago. It wasn't. It wasn't generational conditioning. Exactly. I came from a place that you don't leave. Like regardless. Exactly. Stay with your family. Take everything. Don't say, oh, he got 18, he got 20 million people. He's abusing you verbally. Don't even matter. You don't leave. Right. Don't see your family.

SPEAKER_05

That's right. He'll be back. That's right. Just make sure on the 15th and the 30th he drops the check off. And so that makes a condition. Okay, well, bring the check. Oh, he doesn't stop bringing the check. Well, it's time for this to end. It's coming to a close. Because the check didn't come. You had 16 booms. But you didn't bring the check.

SPEAKER_02

That's a lot of things. Got me checked.

unknown

Got me checked.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's totally. Yeah. And and that, so it could, so that that that was their generation and how they chose to deal with things or sometimes had to. I mean, we we all have choices. So how they chose to deal with it with the information they had, that's how they chose to deal with things. Absolutely. And so, but we have more information. We do. We have more rights. Yes. We have more pots and women. Freedom. Listen, we have more freedoms and we have more just, we just have more. Insight. Yeah. Insight and all of the things.

SPEAKER_06

More wisdom. I like that. They did what they did, and I want to be clear and make sure we say that. Yes. They had a great, great foundation. I learned a lot from them. Absolutely. They did what they did based on what they had. Exactly. Exactly. All the information they had. And as each generation grows, we learn more. We get more wisdom. Yes. And we do better. Because abuse back then, the only abuse abuse considered then was if he put his hands on it. Right. Well, there's multiple forms of abuse. Absolutely. That's just as worse the abuse that you don't see the stars, but they are rooted in. Yes. Yes. And can be passed on generationally if not dealt with. Yes, yes. They did what they did with what they had, but each generation we learn more.

Hyper Independence And Marriage

SPEAKER_06

And you said freedom, but we we not, some of us then became too free, you know. I mean, I love my sisters. But some of us are hyper-independent. Let's just stay right there.

SPEAKER_04

I'm gonna let you take it. I'm gonna let you take it. Go ahead. Tell the truth.

SPEAKER_03

I'll let you take the truth. That is so so true. That is something that I I dealt with and still dealing with and trying to work on. Um, but when you've been on your own for so long and you've had to carry so much for so long, you're conditioned to be that way. That's right. When you're you're I've been on my own when I went off to college at 18. So, and I moved out and got my apartment in my 20s. So I've been taking care of things for so long, and then when I get married at 30, I'm just like, hey, no, uh-uh, my finances was like this. You gotta get yourself together.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. You always need to check it out. I mean, that's gonna be the thing.

SPEAKER_03

The way I the way it is that I wanted to, you know, just come in here and leave stuff all over the place instead of, you know, just trying to be softer and you know, and that's a taste of listen, listen, listen, y'all.

SPEAKER_04

I'm just finna be transparent. My father, God rested so. Me and all of my sisters told him you raised, you raised four independent women. And he was always like, no, I didn't. He was like, Yes, you did. You raised us to be strong, independent women that could take care of ourselves. You you taught us that, you know, there we're the Bible and you know, supposed to be submissive and you know, all the all these different things. You taught us the word, like theory, but in reality, you told us and you taught us how to be independent, strong women. So when we got into our marriages, I'm now I'm just gonna I'm gonna take my sisters out of them, I'm gonna speak for me. When I got into my marriage, although I came from my parents' house, I was still independent in all these different ways. And so I didn't know how to allow, like I I said to myself, Well, okay, now you have to be a submissive wife and you have to do all these things and yada yada yada yada. And so all the independent things that I knew how to do, I shrunk back. And I was like, I gotta be this submissive wife. Wow. And later on, my husband said to me, Who this woman? For real. Like, what happened? I loved the strong woman that you that that you were. And then we get married, and I'm like, who is this woman? Yeah, and I'm just like, but I'm I'm being a submissive wife. And but I had to un I didn't have good understandings of what submission actually means. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07

A lot of us don't.

SPEAKER_04

It literally means to give your will over to another. And the Bible tells us to submit to one another. That's right. You know what I'm saying? So sometimes it's gonna be your way, sometimes it's gonna be my way. Sometimes we have to figure out a way that works for both of us in the middle. You see what I'm saying? And so it doesn't mean that I'm under your foot.

SPEAKER_03

It's not.

SPEAKER_04

It's not. It doesn't mean that I'm under your foot. Absolutely. It doesn't mean that whatever you say goes.

SPEAKER_06

It doesn't mean we're not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04

It means that you have the yes, you have the final say, but there should be some discourse.

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

There should be some discourse.

SPEAKER_05

And there has to be, my thing has always been do I trust you to lead me? Listen, if there is a situation where somebody has to make the call.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

Do I trust you, sir, to make the call, and it will be beneficial for the both of us. That's a thing.

SPEAKER_04

Listen, I need you to say that. I need you to say that again for the people because that is another nuggets. Yes. Do not marry somebody. Do not marry somebody. No. Do not marry somebody that you do not trust to lead. Do not marry somebody that you don't trust with your life.

SPEAKER_05

That's true.

SPEAKER_04

Because when you marry somebody, they can make decisions about your life.

SPEAKER_06

They can. They can. This is so true. And I and and I I actually think that's the issue. That is the whole issue with submission, right? Um do you trust this individual, right? Submission is a trust thing. It is not, oh, you're under my feet, I get to control you, I get to rule over you. That's not what it is. It's not what submission is. It is not can I trust you? And I think that's why you know a lot of women fall into that space, right? You don't trust your spouse to lead you, you know, for whatever reason. You've seen things or things have happened in your marriage that have made you lose that trust and they didn't rebuild it. And so now I I don't I don't trust you. And now I'm now I'm getting hyper-independent. Absolutely. Okay, well, if you didn't do it, I'm gonna have to make it happen. And and now one extreme to the other. And it and it depends on who your other spouse is, because some of those spouses will be like, oh, okay, well, you're gonna do it, but let me step on back. Right. I'm the head and I'm the man of a supposed least, but let me step on back. Now I'm looking at it. Now I'm looking at you like resentment is setting in. Because now I'm now I'm carrying something that God didn't design me to be able to do that. He didn't intend for me to carry. Come on.

SPEAKER_05

And it's more than garbage, taking the garbage out. Making sure that the light bills, it's more than that. It's deeper than that, it's more involved than that. Anybody can take the garbage out. I am I am a girl's girl, and I will prepare your food and I will make your plate and bring it to you with the napkin folded. I don't have a problem with that. But I will also take the garbage out. I'm talking about stuff. I'm talking about do I trust that you will cover me if something goes down? Do I trust that you have my best interest at heart? Yes.

SPEAKER_06

Or do you have the bear? That's right. That's right. And you know, and I can speak from you know my perspective and experience, um, it was betrayal after betrayal that broke the trust. Like, oh, like we're not one because I'm covering you. Yes. But who's covering me? Nobody, you know, in the south. I'm just nobody. And I'm I'm just out here. Like, yes, you know, those things can set in, you know. And and so now um you're the head, you're not functioning in your role. I'm I'm your neck, I'm not functioning in my role, and the kids and is suffering, and now you hollering at the cat too. So I'm just saying, I mean, it it's it's a perpetual, I mean it really is. That's alignment is so important. It's so important. And and I'm saying that to say, you know, there's fault on both sides. It yeah, it literally breaks my heart, right? Because sometimes you get in a space and you're like, how did I get here? Like, how did I get here? But it's because we we're not both have to be exercising those tools, right? Yes. Um, one can't be fighting and the other's hard. It's not viable. Right? The other's hard is hard. That's a trick of the enemy.

SPEAKER_03

That's what I had to come to because I wanted my marriage. And you come to the point of like, I'm gonna fight for my marriage, I'm gonna fight for my marriage. But it's only so much fighting you can do. It's not, you're not even supposed to be fighting. Both supposed to be putting in effort to make it work. And I think that once it got to that point, I'm just like, I don't want to keep bickering back and forth. I don't want to keep going back and forth by myself. I feel like it's just me alone. And I'm not, um, I can't do this by myself. And that's when I'm like, I had to make the decision. I have to like just walk away because I can't, I'm causing myself more anxiety and more just distress trying to work on something

Submission As Trust Not Control

SPEAKER_03

by myself.

SPEAKER_06

It's just and let's change that language too. Um, we are not fighting each other.

SPEAKER_04

I was about to listen, you coming down my road.

SPEAKER_06

I was on my way. I was on my way. I was on my way. The fight is not against flesh. Come on. I am not sure. Come on. You are not my enemy. When our mindset gets in that place, Satan just has his way with us in marriage and relationships. Yes. We have a common enemy. That we have a common enemy. Yes. And when we both, when we get out of that mindset, and it's me against you, and and I'm gonna get my way and I'm gonna have the last say, I'm right, you're wrong. Or Satan just be dancing. Right. I got him, I got him, I got him. We have a common enemy. Even today, in my dating, you know, without here dating, I I tell gentlemen that like I'm I'm not your enemy. We're not in competition. Yeah. When you start thinking like that, we failed already. Already already. We have a common enemy. And if we all thought that way, we can contend for this marriage. Yeah. Hey, let's put our back, I put my back up against yours, you put your back up against me. And let's throw these blows. Yes. Let's throw these blows at cover one.

SPEAKER_04

We can have some real warfare against the real enemy.

SPEAKER_06

And we can overcome this season. Yes. We can overcome this season.

SPEAKER_05

But however, here she goes. Oh, she was coming. I'm just gonna be real because we're we're talking real stuff, right? Yeah, we are. When the gentleman presents himself as the enemy. Yes. Now we're not wrestling against flesh and blood. We are not, right? We're not. And I initially am your advocate. I am for you, but when you decide to change teams, I am going to treat you accordingly. And then you become the adversary. Well, I and it's it's it's sad. It is a sad place to arrive. But when you get there, you don't get the benefit of the favor that comes with me if you decide to forfeit it. How does that work? Where they do that at? Oh, yes. Okay. Oh, I mean, I'm just saying the real.

SPEAKER_04

Now we we still have the common enemy, but what you're saying is when you have opened the door and allowed the enemy just to just take over.

SPEAKER_06

Yes, then you're showing up as the enemy. Right. Or we're showing up. Right, right. Because it could be us. That's right. Right.

SPEAKER_04

Whoever, whoever has let whoever has cracked the door open and said, you know, come, come on in. Right. I'm slopping. I'm walking this road. Because sometimes we we sometimes we do decide to say it is a true. Now you can't take your your Christian hat on and off, but some but sometimes we like, God, I got this one. Uh-huh. Listen.

SPEAKER_05

And it's not even that. It is frustrating the grace and virtue that the Lord has given you to fight a thing. There came a point in my marriage where I was praying, and my prayer shifted. Earlier we were talking about making certain that this person is your friend, making certain that you like them. And so my prayer shifted from praying for my husband to praying for my friend. Okay. As the intercessor of the house, I sensed that if I didn't pray right, his life was on the line, okay, both naturally and spiritually. So I had to treat the symptom as well as treat the what was going on. And it just is, it's rough. It's rough, but at some point you gotta make a call. You gotta make a call and know when to switch it. Like, no, this isn't about covenant because covenant is breached, covenant is forfeited now. We're dealing with the soul now, yeah. And so we have to deal with the soul of the person. That's what I meant. And so your soul is acting like you know, the father of life. Like you can be. Okay. That's right, that's right. Like you attend it. Your soul is behaving as such. So I'm going to treat this symptom.

SPEAKER_06

Listen, I'm known for starting a rebuke. Say right. Let me write my rebuke. Wait a minute. So this ain't that. The devil is alive. And I totally, I totally get um where you're coming from. Because I mean, you can, I've seen the enemy rear his ugly head. I've seen the face stories. And I'm like, oh, this demon had manifest. I remember a long time ago hearing on the podcast uh a very um famous couple, you know, and they're divorced now. I won't say their names, but I remember them telling their story about um how they arrived to divorce and you know, shocked the community, the gospel community. And I remember hearing um the wife say, I woke up one morning and the devil was in the bed with me.

SPEAKER_02

And I I thought that was how can she say that? How can she call the preacher the devil? Like I didn't understand that.

SPEAKER_06

But baby today, you know, once I went through that thing and I saw that thing manifest, I understood what she meant. Because if we don't get our tools and we don't protect what God has given us, and we don't, we're not constantly contending and fighting for that, that that enemy, I mean, he will. He will he gonna keep taking ground. That's right. And one day you're gonna look and be like, Right, who is this? That's right. Okay, that's because that looked like Satan. Yeah. So you know, the natural, in the natural, our natural response is fight. Yes. Uh now, now I'm finna fight. We're not thinking, let's just be honest. Right. When you see that thing manifest, your first thought is not always um going in the closet. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

Like, oh, I'm going in the closet.

SPEAKER_06

I'm a god. Yeah, like oh, I'm sorry. You going in the closet, but you rebuking him, you rebuking this, you doing that thing. But one thing, one thing I will say, when you do go in that closet, when you get done doing that, yeah, then the Lord show you you.

SPEAKER_04

And it's and there's some practical things that need to be done as well.

Prayer Plus Practical Boundaries

SPEAKER_04

It's not just, I don't, I don't want us to get so, you know, heavily minded, we're no earthly good. Absolutely. He will give you strategy. He will give you real life strategy when you are in, when you take time to pray and and to hear from him. And and sometimes that strategy is some practical things. Uh you need some counseling, or you need to leave this house, or you need to, you know, create some boundaries, or you need to, God, God, everything ain't mystified. No, it's not. He he is practical. And he will give us practical things as we live on this earth. Absolutely. And we have to, we, especially the Christian community, we have to be careful that we're just not praying and fasting and and believing God, and we're not doing the practical things. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06

Well, faith without work. Works is dead, right? There, there's an action. That's an action word. There's always something that you have to do too. So, yeah, we're gonna use our weapons, our weapons of prayer and worship. We're gonna use the word, but what what am I doing in the natural? Now, when I come up out this closet with my tools, what am I doing? Right. Um I might be anointing this what kind of tools?

SPEAKER_02

Say, say, say, say, I might have to put my lips in the boundary.

SPEAKER_06

You know, I might have to come out and set a boundary. I might have to move something down on this. I might have to protect this what's left. Sometimes I might have to shut my shut your mouth. When I shut my mouth, you worried. And we just gonna tell you. You better be worried. When I shut my mouth, I just told somebody this the other week. When you see me quiet, you best believe I'm in there whirling my shield and my swarm. Cause babies, yeah, it's a fire in the hole. Listen to that baby. Be worried, baby, because we be coming out like shit from when I'm quiet.

SPEAKER_02

So let's deal with it first before I get quiet. Oh my god. I mean, know myself. It is the truth. It is the truth.

SPEAKER_04

So we have I'm loving this conversation. So we we have

God Shaping Breakups And Divorce

SPEAKER_04

hit a lot of good nuggets. I want to ask you all, um, because we are women of faith, how has your relationship with God shaped how you have navigated through these different seasons?

SPEAKER_05

Break well. I didn't have tools. I didn't understand. Um you know how um you kind of understand what happened, but you don't understand how it happened here. Yeah, yeah, because we had everything going for us, we had everything in our favor. And so the first time I didn't handle it well, and I and I went out and I sewed my wild oats. Okay. I did not listen to Holy Spirit saying anything to me. Now, of course, okay, Holy Spirit is married to the backslider, and so I was covered, but I had no regard. And so I didn't handle the first breakup well. I didn't, I did whatever I wanted to do. Okay, okay. But as the second marriage presented similar, um as it began to unwind and unravel, the Holy Spirit in me reminded me of how I handled the first time. And I remember going to God saying, Lord, don't let me fall like I fell the first time. Let me handle this one with maturity. Let me handle this as you would have me to handle it. And be and again, this is me sensing that this person's life was a weighing in the balance. So I couldn't fumble. I couldn't afford to fumble. I was already in a marriage uncovered. So I couldn't afford to then be as foul. I needed Holy Spirit to give me a download and the capacity to intercede for my friend, to intercede for myself, to cover myself by the spirit. So I think that the maturity came and just the desire to want to please God, because I think that I recognized that this couldn't be about me. This couldn't just be about us because we had prophetic word after prophetic word after prophetic word about what the Lord was going to do through our marriage. And so we had the backing of heaven, but there wasn't compliance with one of us. So I'm like, okay, we've got the backing of heaven, so I I know that I'm gonna be covered in this. So it it was just a maturity that came and an understanding of what needed to be done in that sense. Okay, okay, and then you deal with the shame.

SPEAKER_06

And there's the intro to me. So for me, um I was separated probably three and a half years before I literally signed the divorce paper. Um and I had to have a conversation with myself one day. And it, you know, I was I was in worship and it was it just hit me like a ton of bricks. It was like you're walking in shame. So I had I could not, it took me a while to grasp the fact of you know the word, yeah. You walking in this thing, he's supposed to know the word, he's supposed to be. How in the world could you let the enemy come against this? How is the enemy winning in this area? Yeah, and that thing kept me stuck. I'm gonna be honest. Um, it kept me stuck. Okay, um because I probably should have shine, should have signed the papers a long time ago because he had moved on and was that part, right? Doing that, and um, but it kept me stuck be because I had shame. I allowed the enemy to put shame on me, and I kept going, yeah, how am I gonna, you know, walk around and say I'm this woman of God now and I'm going through a divorce. How am I gonna teach? How am I gonna minister to people anymore? And it it just kept me stuck until one day the but I didn't know I was in shame. I just was stuck in this mindset of my God, you're a failure. Talk about it, and that's that was the mindset I was stuck in. And I was in survival mode. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm gonna be honest. I wanted my kids to um be in a stable place, even with that going on. So I was very intentional. I did my research on, you know, how to do co-parenting and all the I was very intentional in how I handled them, how I moved from that point. I was in survival mode. Yeah um because to me it felt like a death.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, it is a death. It is a death, it felt like a death. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06

You have to grieve and there are cycles to grieve. Yes. But the once I realized, and it took me a few years to realize that you have shame. Like, why are you feeling shame is not of God, right? And what once I identified what it was, yeah, the weight came off of my shoulder. I was set free, and then I had a peace with it. I took it to God, yeah, and I had a peace with it. And I said, Okay, um, though this is not your original design, when humans get their hands involved, right? Um, we can mess up things. Been messed up since the fall, right? Um, though this is not your design, um, I have peace with where we are now, and I have to move on. Yeah. Um, because he's moved on. So what not just because he moved on, but it's time, right? It's time to move on. It's time. Repent um for what you need to repent from. Yeah. God is gonna give you grace in that thing. And this is not the end. I think that is the most important thing because I am still a huge advocate for marriage.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06

I it's a beautiful thing when two people come together and they work at it. Yes. Both working, not one. You can't have an imbalance. Wherever there's imbalance, there's gonna be strife, and we're gonna leave, there's gonna be an open door for the enemy just to, you know, plant his seeds, right? And they grow in your life. So I am a huge advocate. I still am a huge advocate for it. Um when when we do the work up front, um, and he and you're not gonna have everything like you said, up front.

SPEAKER_04

You're not.

SPEAKER_06

But hey, well, when I get in a fight, help me. Don't help the bear. Like, I mean, don't help the bear. That's what they say. Don't help the bear. You can't be fighting against me, bro. Like, I'm even on here. Like, seriously, like, but we have to go in with that mindset, and and those are some things that I learned. That's why I think purpose and assignment is very big. I I didn't know that in my 20s, right? Um, I knew some things. Yeah, yeah. Um, he knew some things, but it was a lot in between we didn't know, right? And so one growing and the other's not growing, yeah. That that can that can, you know, that can cause some some some issues down the road. So yeah, that that that wasn't one of the things. I went from, you know, the shame, the Lord lifted that off me, and then he freed me and he restored me. Yeah, he restored me. That was huge. One of my um prayers to God when I was going through my divorce was to for God to always keep my heart open. That was my prayer. I prayed that prayer every night. Lord, because I used to minister to women who had become bitter, you know, from hurt and betrayer, betrayal and pain, and they just were done. I didn't want to be that woman. Yeah, I didn't want to be that woman. I wanted to live, I wanted to be free, yeah, I wanted to live again, I wanted to believe again. So that was my prayer every night. Keep my heart open. Keep my heart open. And he did just that.

SPEAKER_03

You did?

SPEAKER_06

He did just that. Just that.

SPEAKER_03

That's beautiful. What was the question again? It's so good. It's so good. I think I lost in this response.

SPEAKER_04

How has your relationship with God shaped uh how you've navigated, you know, through through the life? I think that was the question. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Does my relationship with God help me navigate through? Um I would say in my marriage, I knew, like I knew God, but I didn't know God. I I feel like I was going to God just so he can fix my marriage. Like I I wasn't going to him as a a person that really knew, knew him.

SPEAKER_04

Like, I I it you know, because you had knowledge of him, but not intimacy. Yes, not relationship. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Because if I did, I probably shouldn't have even got married, to be honest. Okay. We had problems. That's real talk. That's real talk. I mean, that's real talk. Yes, like we had problems just throughout the whole process. On the wedding, the next day after we got married, on our honeymoon, we had issues and problems that just never, they never got fixed. And so it was like me just going through this constant like hamster wheel, just trying to just figure things out on my own. And even though I was going to God, I wasn't going to God as, you know, intimate with him. I was going to God as, God, do me this favor, you know, God fix my marriage, fix him, fix me. Just do whatever so I won't. So we can keep this marriage. Yes. Just keep the marriage. Because that I didn't want to be alone. I didn't want, you know, I didn't. Let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. I didn't want to seem like the failure, you know. I I I was raised with both of my parents. So it was like, yeah, it was it was something that I was striving to have for my life as well, too. So it was like I was just pushing and pushing and praying for this thing to work. And it wasn't working. And I and I didn't, you know, I wasn't listening to God. I wasn't, you know, following what He wanted me to do for this marriage. I just was trying to get what I wanted out of it. And I I I I know that now, and I've acknowledged that now. And that, and I believe that's the reason why after we got divorced, we were still trying to work it out, work it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You recognize some things.

SPEAKER_03

Because there were things going on in there that we shouldn't even been doing. It's like we're not even married anymore. We shouldn't be living together. We shouldn't be doing all of these things. Gotcha. But instead, just because I wanted to hold on to the image of marriage, I wanted to hold on to the image of, you know, what I was creating for my life because that's the American dream. That I didn't, I didn't seek God in any of it.

Marriage Indecision Course Invitation

SPEAKER_04

As you're listening to today's conversation, you may find yourself thinking, I wish I had known sooner. I wish I had the tools to make a clear decision before I got to this point. I want you to know it's not too late for you. If you're in a relationship right now and you're struggling with indecision about marriage, if you're caught between doubt and hope, if you're wondering, is this God's will for my life? Or am I just afraid to let go? I created something specifically for you. I'm not a counselor, but I've walked this journey. I've been married for over 20 years, and through two separations, I had to make some of the most difficult decisions of my life. I had to do the hard work of letting God in, laying my will down, and following his lead instead of my own understanding. The Women of Worth Academy Marriage Indecision Course is a faith-based six-module journey designed to help you move forward from confusion to clarity, from anxiety to peace, the same journey I had to walk myself. You'll learn to identify your true feelings, discover how you hear God's voice in the midst of all the noise, and you'll walk through forgiveness and establish healthy boundaries that protect your worth. This isn't about me telling you what to decide. This is about equipping you with the biblical tools and practical strategies to make the right decision for your life with confidence, clarity, and God's peace. The Marriage and Decision course is available now at Valeriarite.com. Your future is worth it. You are worth it. Go sign up today. Because a lot of people won't admit that they didn't they they didn't see God. A lot of people won't admit that they didn't even ask. They were just like, I'm lonely and this is what I want. And he here, so we're gonna make this work.

SPEAKER_03

And he even wasn't a person for me to just be lonely longing after, you know?

SPEAKER_02

Low-hanging true. It was yeah, it was just him because I'm just weak right now. I mean, I'm gonna be honest, we're being real.

SPEAKER_03

I mean now now, now that you can see it now. Like it now. It just I just wanted to be with someone. And that's when a whole lot of things just came up about my childhood and you know, things that I've been through. And you know, even though I did have my both my parents, I still dealt with some abandonment issues and things like that. And so it was like just me just um coming to terms with that. And literally, I probably came to terms with that within the last year, to be honest. Okay, listen, listen. So, you know, sometimes it takes us there.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, but the key part is you made it there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And to deal with that shame, to deal with, to feel like you have nobody to talk to during that season of your life, because you know, everybody is so for marriage and it's rah-rah marriage and all of that, but we don't talk about when it doesn't work. And so I was seeking outside forces and things to to um fulfill that empty space of me because I had to to to divorce. So um, but now, you know, that relationship is stronger ever with God. And I know now it shapes me differently, and you know, and me and trying to go out back out here and date because I do want to get married again. So, you know, just it it shapes all of my um, you know, my my values and my standards and just my non-negotiables and things that I just I'm not gonna go for now.

SPEAKER_04

Come on. Yeah, that's because now you've got some, you have some I you you've discovered your identity and you have some boundaries. Yes, you know, because because you know your worth and your identity, you you can set proper boundaries.

Worth Identity And The Ruby Process

SPEAKER_04

Um, I I wanna I I had to pick up my phone for a second because the the scripture that has been like going through my head uh through uh a lot of this conversation is um, you know, our our the the the word tells us uh the the the uh Proverbs 31 woman, you know, her her her her uh value is far above rubies. And and I was like, how are rubies formed? And I'm just gonna read this to y'all. So uh rubies form deep within the earth from aluminum oxide corundum, subjected to intense heat and pressure, with their signature red color coming from trace amounts of chromium, they often develop in metamorphic rocks like marble or ingenious rocks, where ideal conditions, this is the part, allow aluminum, oxygen, and chromium to crystallize into the ruby's lattice structure over millions of years, creating a prized red gemstone. And our worth is far above rubies. So it takes millions of years to form rubies and have that that beautiful color of red and to have the lattice shapes on it. And you you mentioned you you said process, and God, that's what God is doing as before we get married in the marriage and beyond, God is forming us and He's shaping us and He's allowing us to go along this journey, but we need some oxygen. Yes, yes, we need some oxygen. We've gotta breathe, we've gotta allow God to breathe on us. We've gotta allow God to breathe in our situation. So if you're if you're in a marriage and you feel like you're suffocating, ask God to breathe on you and to breathe on the situation. If you're in a place where you've come to the decision that the bound you you now you didn't have boundaries before, but now you've got some boundaries, and now you you didn't know who you were before, but now you know who you are, and the relationship just isn't it, it it isn't what it needs to be and what it should be, and it's not glorifying to God, and it's not serving you, yeah. But mostly it's not glorifying to God because God did not mean for us to be to be abused and to be battered and to be, you know, uh, like that that's that's not what God intended for us. It's not his intent, you know what I'm saying? And so we've got to recognize when we are in a season where it's time to, you know, the the it I've I've reached my my breaking point.

The Breaking Point And Separation

SPEAKER_04

And I this was that was one of the questions that I wanted to ask you all. Um, and I wanted to ask that question because in my second separation, I got to the place where I was like, I'm done. I done, I'm like, uh, I done uh taking all that I can stands and I can't stands no more. You know what I'm saying? And I picked up the phone and I called the lawyer. You know what I'm saying? God spoke to me in that time and said separation is necessary. I ain't want to hear what God was saying. I didn't want to hear that. I was like, we did that bivodo and that it didn't work. So uh just loose me and let me go, Lord. Let me go.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

He didn't change his mind about what he said to me. He never changes concerning the my marriage. Okay. I the the our he didn't change what he said to me. That's right. So I had to make a decision. Am I going to do what God says and figure out what he means by separation is necessary and what that looks like? Or am I or am I gonna do it my way? And say, bump that. We tried it, didn't work, um, on to the next. Because that's what Valeria was. She was like on to the next. And sitting in that, I'll never forget, sitting in that apartment. I cried for three months. For three months, I cried, and I was like, God, how did we get here? How did I get here again? Like, how did I get here again? And he kept telling me to come to him and to pray and to to seek him, but I didn't want to do it, y'all. I didn't want to do that because I was over it. Yes, I was over it, I was done.

SPEAKER_06

You had to reach your capacity. Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, I had reached my capacity and I couldn't do no more. And I said, God, whatever you want to do, however you want to do it.

SPEAKER_05

And when you come to the end of yourself, yes, his strength begins to be made. Perfect in our week.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. And he began to, and that's when I prayed the prayer, God show me me. And that began to shift things on my end. God was doing stuff on the other end too. You know what I'm saying? But I wasn't concerned about him because I didn't even want that. I was like, listen, I'm a I'ma I'ma I'm gonna share this. It's funny, but it's not funny. But the second separation, we uh it was during the pandemic, so we on Zoom and we uh we we agree to have this session. I'm like, fine, we can have this marriage counseling, it ain't gonna change nothing, but that's what you want to do, fine, we can do it because I had asked you for this, dah dah, dah. Anyway, we had the first session, and I'm literally sitting there like this. Already, body position, already we get into the we get into the conversation, and they, you know, they asking questions and stuff, and you know, sound like you know, one person moan and another person don't.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, give it to them like this.

SPEAKER_04

Like, you know, like listen, you know, um, and and one of the things that was said to my husband was it's uh it sounds like you are, you know, you have turned the corner, you are on the right path, you know what I'm saying? But you might be getting yourself ready for your next relationship. And I was like, thank you, Jesus, somebody done told them. Like that's that's what I was, y'all. I'm trying to tell y'all. Like, I was on the verge, I was on the point. So what so like I know what took what brought me to that, but what and what brought me to that was I was like, we are existing. Yes. This is not, this is not a partnership, this is not a rel. We are roommates. And I I don't want to live the rest of my life like this. There are so many things that we're not on the same page with. There are so many things that are not, you know, in in concert. And I just don't want to live like this. And so, God, you said separation is necessary. I say I don't won't do it. So that's how I got there. How did you all get to that? Like, what was your what was your breaking point?

SPEAKER_05

Ayana fixed my life. Okay. Literally, I am not a person that watched that program when it was running regularly, but this particular episode, um, Ayana Van Zant was dealing with a couple where she wanted the marriage, she was standing for the marriage, and he did not. He had moved on in his mind and his heart and in his body. And much like me, I was like, we're elders in the church, we're both elders, and Lord, you spoke a word, and I believed your word. And what's gonna happen if this thing doesn't work? People are gonna think that you're not real if this didn't work. I meant my vows. I said, until death us do part, and Ayanla said to the woman, but there is death. There's death of communication. There is that we had not spoken to each other in maybe six months. Oh wow, maybe six months lived in the same house, didn't speak. Coming and going, coming and going, coming and going, no communication, no notes written, no nothing. Wow, death of communication, death of um love, death of understanding, and she went down with all of the various levels of death, and I was like, maybe that's what God meant. There is death of all of those things in this incident, and it's just me standing, and I cannot cleave unto myself today.

SPEAKER_06

Alright, that was my day.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, that was my day.

SPEAKER_06

And that is absolutely true. Um I remember in scripture where the Pharisees was trying to test Jesus on that divorce subject, bill of divorce. Yes. And he, you know, they were basically like, hey, like you said, like there's no divorce except for this one thing. But Moses gave someone a certificate of divorce. So what say you now, Jesus? What say yeah what say ye now? They tried to say, I'm the last yes. Well, not yes, right. Um, testing the Lord. Really? Seriously, and you know, though God tells us that's not his original design, there are times when it is permissible. So I want to be clear. Yes, clear on that. Um when I came to the realization, I would say, even though, and I, you know, we're having a transparent uh moment here, even though we were separated. Um, what brought me to that point where I was just like, yep, that's it. Um I'm gonna move forward. Lord, you just tell me where to go, but this ain't it. Um it's interesting you brought up the word death because that was what brought me to that point. I was standing in my bedroom after having been crying out for many years and many nights, and I had come to the point. I mean, I'm talking, um, it's affecting my body, all sorts of things. Stress is a killer. It is uh silent. And I was standing and I literally felt like I didn't know if I was gonna make it through the week. I thought I was going to die. I literally felt death up on me. And it was like the spirit in me was like, girl, you're not finna die in this thing. Yes. I know you believe in your marriage, but you're not gonna die.

SPEAKER_07

Right.

SPEAKER_06

You know, you're not finna die of this. You know, you can die from a broken heart, right? You can. And I literally felt death on me as if my soul was dying. And I said in that moment, I love you. I love marriage, I want this, but ain't nobody worth my soul.

SPEAKER_05

Nobody. Nobody.

SPEAKER_06

No one is worth my soul. So that's when I made the decision. I said, um, this is it. And even after I made that decision in separation, just to be honest with you, I still was praying and still believing that in the separation that God could take the scales off of his eyes and let him see I'm not your enemy and restore that thing.

SPEAKER_05

What a testimonial. I mean, we well, we shine it up.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, we try to know what he's trying to do. But then I also set some things in place with God and I said, But if it is not your will.

SPEAKER_05

Nevertheless, come on.

SPEAKER_06

If it is not your will, I trust you.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And I know you got me, and you have our family, and we're gonna move forward. And I and I even told him, I said, block it if it ain't your will. And every time I would get in the space, because you know, you you get lonely. Every time I would get in space, like, okay, I'm gonna let my guard say, well, maybe I should, because they want the benefits, you know, without being married. Let's just tell the truth. The devil is alive. Okay, we're not gonna get all this off. Like, um, hey, you didn't fuck fit it. You didn't fuck fit it, you know, you know. But language, and so, you know. And so, I was, you know, I told God, I was like, hey, when I get in, when I get in my flesh and I get in that moment of weakness, I was like, block. If this is not your will, block it. And every time that moment of weakness would come and I would let my guys down, you know, he would act in food. I would get a couple at three o'clock in the morning. Say, I mean, he acting up. It's like, it's like the enemy would be working over the same, I mean, I'm being accused of stuff. I'm in the bed sleeping. What are we doing? Like the door just kept shut. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then eventually, um, I can see remnants of him moving on. And so I then I I was like, okay, girl, you know, shame came off. So I talked to the Lord, gonna let go and clean this. You never know what God is gonna do. I tell people all the time, even though, you know, he has his life, I have my life, we don't know what God is going to do. But I am in a space where I trust God and I've moved forward with what his will is and whatever it is for me, I'm open to it. I'm open to it. That's what I am. I do desire to be married again. I do. Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Likewise.

SPEAKER_03

Well, for me, God had to take the blinders off of me because I kept going back. And then I kept going back. And if even in the six years that we were married, I think we probably were separated maybe two or three of those times. So it was like, and he like Katina said, I had a moment of weakness. He would come back and say all these things, and he had got an offer to uh run a church, and it was like, oh, you know, I want us to come and run the church together. And so that went back to that, and it didn't work through that.

SPEAKER_04

But you but we finna run a church.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely, and so kept going back, kept going back to eventually I'm like, I can't do this anymore. Like, and so that's when, you know, and then we were going back and forth for who was gonna file the divorce, and it was that thing. And so we I officially did it in 2017, but then after that, it was like, okay, we're done, but we'll we'll still, you know, you still wanna, like you said, want that testimony that God can do anything. We can restore it. We didn't got another point. He's gonna restore it. It's gonna be the testimony.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

No, we had to move back in together. And you know, this we we own uh we own, you know, this national thing, so I won't call them what I want to say, but this person went and he did his own thing. We were gonna get a house together. And he went and got his own approval letter while I'm over here thinking we both doing our thing getting the house. No, that was not the case. Wow. I found out on social media that he had got a house. And at that point, that was my breaking point. Because I said, okay, God, you keep showing me. And I kept going back, kept thinking that something was gonna be different. And you had to take my blindness off of me and make this a public thing to say, listen, wow, don't keep going back to this person. And that's that's the thing. That's what we're doing. Cut it off, let it go.

SPEAKER_06

It takes two. Yes. I can't be thinking kingdom and unity and family, and you're pulling against me. That's it, right? We we got a common enemy. You can't you can't be pulling against me too. That's correct. Like what we're doing. That's right. So, yeah, at some point we you have to come to yourself. You know, I don't think anyone goes into marriage wanting divorce. Absolutely not. We know why God hates it. We've all been through it. So now we understand why He says he hates it. It's a tearing. It's a tear. Yeah, tearing friendships, yeah, family, your spirit. Um, there's a lot of restoration that has to take place. That's a tearing. I mean, it's just like, you know, like super glue. You ever got super glue on your hand trying to get that thing apart. You ever got your two fingers apart. That's what it's like. It is it's a it's a rip. That's how it is. That is how divorce feels. That is how divorce feels. So that's why God hates it because he knows all the things that are gonna come come behind it and the damage, and now everyone has to be restored.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I didn't want to feel those feelings. I didn't want to come to terms with feeling the hurt, feeling the grief, absolutely going through all of that. And so I kept putting myself through that, thinking that it will heal it, yeah, but it only made it worse.

SPEAKER_06

And some people, I mean, we're talking about it, like we've done the work and we're continuing to do the work, right? Um, by the grace of God. But some people don't do that. Some people just leave and they go to the next relationship. Everywhere you go, you take you with you. Come on. Um and so now you're bringing that same baggage into your next relationship. Some people never do that work. They they never come to themselves and they never do that work and allow God to um work out the things in them so that they can be a better person for themselves and for the next relationship. So you got a lot of people, you know, bringing that stuff into marriages now, and people like, what is going on, baby? Because you got all them soul ties on, you didn't bought up out of here off the street here. And and these people, and you can have a soul tie without having sex, just to let y'all know.

SPEAKER_07

That's true.

SPEAKER_06

Um, huh? But anyways, don't get me stopped. Two. Yes, you can. So, you know, we're doing the work, but we have to be in, we we were intentional. Yes, we're intentional about our healing. Yes, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_04

And I and I really I'm I'm really trying to round the corner so we can uh so we can uh you know bring it home, but I gotta ask this question because you you you just walked right into what I wanted to ask, but I was like, maybe, maybe we just no, but we got we gonna ask it.

What Healing Really Looks Like

SPEAKER_04

How how have you walked through your healing process? Six years for you, six years for you, you said three years for you. How has what has that looked like for you uh choosing to heal? What has that looked like?

SPEAKER_05

It starts and ends with being 100% honest about how you feel. Okay, it is a day to day, sometimes hour to hour. And because it is a death, it steps through the stages of grief. You are going to be angry, you are going to be in denial, you are going to accept eventually. You're going to there were days when I literally had to go to God, and this is where I coined the phrase, God can be trusted with our humanity. And so I went to God and said, God, I don't like him. He's a liar, and I want something to happen to him. I want him to fall and bust his head wide open to the white meat show. But I didn't take that to another person. I took that to the right, right, right, right, right, right. I took it to God to do it. But he know what you're thinking anyway. But I was, I got in a season where whatever it was that I was feeling, I took those raw feelings to God. And God, as I took them to him, God took them and he began to dismantle them. All right. And heal them and apply the bomb that only God can give you. And to give you the beauty for those ashes, because I was I was angry, I was resentful. I was like, I did everything the way you said to do it, and this is my portion. Come on, God, this can't be right. You're you're a just God, and this doesn't feel like justice to me. So you're gonna have to take these feelings I got, and you're gonna have to do something with them because I'm mad. Yeah. So my my suggestion would just be to be honest with God. Yeah, He's the only one that's gonna heal you from all of that. It is, it is hurting.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, it is hurting. The only one. I agree. Um it's a process. You know, some days I got on my cape. You know, I had on my cape, you know, I'm past that stage now, but you know, I was remember going through that process early. Some days I have on my cape, I'm good, boom, got you got me. The next day, you know, I'm like, Lord, get him. Like, you ain't gonna get them. That's your hand.

SPEAKER_05

Like, right, you seriously gonna let's the recompense.

SPEAKER_04

But the recompense. Because we wanna see it.

SPEAKER_06

Yes, I we we wanna see, we wanna see we want to see people who have hurt us and said or offended us and said jumping up. But the Lord had to check me on that too, right? Yeah, the Lord will check you on that. So you have those days too, you know, and then there's the other days where I'm crying out because again, it is a separation, it's a pulling apart. Um, I even noticed that um, you know, the routine things that you would do with your ex-spouse, my body remembered those things and the times. You know, it's very important. Your body actually remembers that stuff. And at a certain time of the day, something will come up on you. You know, something will come up on you. So I'd have to go in my prayer closet. I was like, wow, this is crazy! Like that your body actually remembers those things and those moments and those times. Yeah, so it is a process. Um lots of prayer. You gotta hold on to the horns of the altar. Lots of prayer. Um, I would say one of the big things that helped me too, if I did get in a space where, you know, I might have been trying to beat up on myself and like, why didn't this work? I did all the right things, Lord. Um, it's very, it was very important to me. I learned to take those times and go and surround yourself with people who love you and people who encourage you. Okay. And so that would help me switch my mindset because it's very important you're around people who support you so that they can pour into you.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Because the enemy beats you down in that thing. He tries to beat you down so that they can import and pour into you. So do things that you love, surround yourself with family. Your faith, of course, is is first knowing your identity. Who did Christ say you are? You're not perfect, right? You are you are a work in progress, yeah, but he loves you just the way you are, incompletely. Faults, mistakes, all of it.

SPEAKER_04

Because he knew you was gonna do all that stuff before.

SPEAKER_06

He knew you was a fool. I mean, that's I mean, he knew. So um, those are things like that I held on to. My identity. Yeah, like this is who God says you are. That was a a a time. That's something that happened in a season of your life. It does not define you. Yeah, I don't even like to go around saying I'm divorced because I feel like that was a season. Like, I'm not checking a box, I'm a divorcee. That's not my label, that's not my life, that's not the end of my story. All right, come on. He's writing a new story for me. So I don't even like to say that. I'm a single woman. Yes, I went through divorce in a season. Okay. That's what I like to say.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. For me, I think my healing is still ongoing. I just think I don't arrive at it. It's something that happened in my life. It's almost like a scar, and you just not that I'm wearing it, but it's there, you know, and it it possibly will show up, you know, in another relationship or whatever. But I've um I am continually going through therapy. Um, and because I'm trying to correlate, you know, things that's happened in my life, that, you know, got me to that point, to the point of, you know, why did I keep going back to somebody that I knew, you know, wasn't good for me? Why do I feel, you know, so unworthy when I've accomplished so many things in my life? You know, why do I feel so such this way when I was raised by two, you know, beautiful people. Parents, like, you know, just trying to put all of the pieces together in my life of why I react the way I reacted and how to improve those things as I move forward in new relationships, in my friendships, and in romantic relationships. So and then also too, just sitting with myself, because I think that sometimes people don't like to sit with themselves because there are so many thoughts that go on in your mind. And you have to, you have to allow those thoughts to go through your mind. Because, you know, if you don't, you you're not going to be able to, you know, put the pieces together of, you know, why you do certain things. And sometimes I'm at home and it just comes on me of like, my goodness, that's why I do what I do. I didn't realize that. You know, and absolutely, you know, I I've I don't really like journaling, but sometimes I do have to get to a point where I do allow those feelings to come out. Because sometimes you you don't want to share those things with people. You know, and so sometimes when I don't want to write, I just voice note it in my phone, you know, and just making sure that I'm getting those things out and I'm I'm allowing myself to feel those emotions because that's so important. I didn't know that back then. Yeah, it's okay to cry sometimes when I don't even know why I'm crying, you know, and just being able to release those things and not keep them inside. And so that's what's been helping me to heal.

SPEAKER_06

That's how we grow, that's part of the healing journey. Yep. Coming to yourself, right?

Life Beyond Divorce And Hope

SPEAKER_06

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

I I listen, I have been blessed all today. Um I have enjoyed this conversation. I want to say thank you, uh, Sister Katina, thank you, Sister Adrian, thank you, Sister Marnisha, thank you all for being so transparent and for being so um honest and and just for sharing your lessons learned because we as we go through life and we much and we we have experiences and we grow and we hopefully mature, um there's some wisdom that comes along the way. Yes. And I appreciate you all sharing your wisdom on today because somebody is going to watch this, somebody is going to listen to this, and they're going to get the nugget and the piece of wisdom that they need. Um, and so if you are if you are a person that has gone through a season of divorce, I love that, um, then I want you to know that it's not over. Your life is not over. You there is more life to live. There is life beyond divorce. These ladies are showing us that there is life beyond divorce, and you your story doesn't end there. So if you are a person of faith, go to the father and ask him to help you through this season. Help ask him to show you yourself, ask him to show you, you know, how to navigate this season. And if you're a person that is contemplating divorce, go to God. Ask him what you should do and how you should do it. We are not here to tell you how to live your life, but we are here to share how we have lived our lives and how we have sometimes done a great job of navigating a season, and sometimes we haven't done a great job of navigating a season, but that that we have, we share with you. So I'm I my I my prayer is that something was said today that will help you along on your journey. And once again, I want to thank you, ladies, for joining us. I want to thank everybody that's listening, that's watching, for watching the the Preston to Purpose podcast. We pray that something that we pray that you are able to get something from it that will bless your life and impact your life that you can take to the next level, to the next season. Um, and I just want to say thank you for watching Preston's Purpose and continue to press into your purpose. We will see you next time.

Course Details And Final Goodbye

SPEAKER_04

As you're listening to today's conversation, you may find yourself thinking, I wish I had known sooner. I wish I had the tools to make a clear decision before I got to this point. I want you to know it's not too late for you. If you're in a relationship right now and you're struggling with indecision about marriage, if you're caught between doubt and hope, if you're wondering, is this God's will for my life, or am I just afraid to let go? I created something specifically for you. I'm not a counselor, but I've walked this journey. I've been married for over 20 years, and through two separations, I had to make some of the most difficult decisions of my life. I had to do the hard work of letting God in, laying my will down, and following his lead instead of my own understanding. The Women of Worth Academy Marriage Indecision Course is a faith-based six-module journey designed to help you move forward from confusion to clarity, from anxiety to peace, the same journey I had to walk myself. You'll learn to identify your true feelings, discover how you hear God's voice in the midst of all the noise, and you'll walk through forgiveness and establish healthy boundaries that protect your worth. This isn't about me telling you what to decide. This is about equipping you with the biblical tools and practical strategies to make the right decision for your life with confidence, clarity, and God's peace. The Marriage and Decision course is available now at Valeriarite.com. Your future is worth it. You are worth it. Go sign up today.

SPEAKER_01

God used you. Thank you. That is happening.

SPEAKER_04

And I was like, wow, but for me, it was like, are you you said you wanted a Christian therapist. You've been saying that, you know, you're following God in this situation. So you can't be mad that you just prayed for a miracle. Because obviously that's what you need. That's what y'all need is a miracle. See you next time.