The Secrets Behind Barbie’s Pink Walls w/ Heather Ford

"He was sexually abusing me while casting demons out of me. That is a chapter in my book." 💔

In one of the most raw and courageous episodes of the Unholier Podcast, host Jenny sits down with Heather Ford, author of The Barbie Pink Wall that Kept My Secrets. Heather isn’t just a survivor; she is a witness to the dark side of "Deliverance" culture within evangelical cults.

Heather recounts the chilling moment she realized her childhood memories weren't just nightmares, but a reality suppressed by trauma. From being "anointed" with olive oil during horrific abuse to the betrayal of an aunt who prioritized a "prayer closet" over the safety of a minor, this story is a necessary look at the mechanisms of control and silence in religious organizations.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The Deliverance Trap: How "casting out demons" is used as a cover for physical and sexual abuse.
• The Cult Hierarchy: Heather names the leaders and the organization (Praise, Power and Prayer) that allowed a known abuser to remain in power.
• The "Barbie Pink Wall": What it means to heal from a lifelong process of indoctrination and the "backfire" of religious neglect.
• Foster Care to Cult: The systemic failures that led two young girls into the hands of a high-control religious group.

If you are currently deconstructing or healing from spiritual abuse, this episode is a reminder that your voice has power and your secrets no longer have to be kept behind a "pink wall."

#thebarbiepinkwall #unholierpodcast #spiritualabuse #cultsurvivor #deconstruction #exvangelical #pentecostalcult #churchabuse #deliveranceministry 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Imagine growing up believing the abuse that you were experiencing was somehow your fault. Because the church told you it was. In today's episode, my guest Heather shares what it was like growing up inside a Pentecostal cult. Where silence protected abusers, guilt controlled survivors, and the consequences for her family were devastating. Welcome to the Unholier Podcast. I'm your host, Jenny Smith. Today I'm speaking with Heather, who grew up in the Pentecostal cult and survived sexual abuse within that environment. She shares her story of leaving the cult, the devastating impact it had on her family, and the memoir she's written about reclaiming her voice. But before we begin, I want to give you a quick trigger warning. This episode contains discussions of sexual abuse, religious trauma, and suicide. So please take care of yourself while listening. Thank you for being here today. And let's get started. Heather, when people hear your name for the first time, what do you hope that they understand about you? That I'm a survivor. So I think sometimes there's a misconception with healing that people maybe that don't understand they've never been in an abusive situation, they've never been in a religious cult. So they think, um, oh, once you get out of it, you're good. Right. But healing is a lifelong process, right? You may have good days and you may have bad days. And those may be few and far between at this point for you because you've been out for however many years. And but you still might have some things that come up and trigger you, or you might have a memory that might pop in and you're like, holy, I thought I dealt with this. Kind of how healing is. Would you say that's pretty accurate for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:05

100,000 percent on right on the head.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yeah. So we will get into it later on, but I know that you have come out on the other side of this. You've written a book, and I definitely want to get into that. But like, what was the point where you're like, I'm ready to tell my story?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Um, so I was ready probably in 2017, two days after I lost my birth dad. I just was like, there was a series of incidents that that kind of occurred where I had seen a picture of the pastor who abused me with one of his daughters on Facebook. Because at the time I was friends with his daughters on Facebook at the time. Um that was we all were so close knit that like after they left, we were friends and whatnot. And so obviously that's changed now, that's not the same. But um, I had seen this picture and it just totally grossed me out. Like I I couldn't like pinpoint it, but I knew something was off. And so I was like, oh, like this like something about him just makes me like want to vomit. Like I I don't feel like I get creaked out. And so I went to bed that night and um had a nightmare of him touching me and doing things, and I was like, whoa, whoa, what? And so, you know, I took the steps necessary to obviously bring it into therapy and be like, listen, like I want to make sure that like I'm remembering this correctly because a lot of individuals who have trauma sometimes they can get their memories intermixed, and so I wanted to make sure that this was accurate because I had basically blocked that whole thing out. Like I blocked whatever happened out, and so sure enough, I had like three nightmares, like three nights in a row, and I was like, yeah, I gotta. So I went to therapy and I was like, Yeah, you know, I need to address this. Like, this needs to be, I need to talk to my aunt because like my dad just passed away, and like I I want this out, like this is before I publicly bring it out. I need to address this with the individuals that I need to address it with. So I literally two days after my dad died of lung cancer, I called my aunt and I I specifically recalled an incident to her of the time that she let this individual up into my room alone with a bottle of olive oil and a Bible. While she was on while she was on the other phone, while she was on the phone with the leader of the organization who is in Montclair, New Jersey, um, walked, literally walked out of my room, shut the bedroom door, and went to her prayer closet for like two and a half, three hours. So what while I was in my bedroom, things took place. He did things. Um I was a minor. Huh? How old were you? Oh, I was I was under the age of 18. Oh my gosh. So I literally recalled that whole day because I remember it like it happened yesterday. And so I I recalled everything. And I said, No, you were on the phone with Martha Davis. Like I specifically remember that. So she first played the card of what I wish you had told me I had no clue. Okay, that was the first card that she What was she bringing olive oil up into the bedroom for?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

What was her excuse? What was her like her excuse, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:56

So yeah, so they're how can I answer this without so in the Pentecostal cults, they do they when they do their whole deliverance thing, they use olive oil as anointing oil. And so they think that so my aunt basically the long story made short, she basically thinks that she was dealing with a spiritual issue and that I needed deliverance, that I needed demons casted out of me. So again, I I for my own, I I won't get into it, but he was sexually abusing me while casting demons out of me and rubbing olive oil all over me. And that isn't that is a chapter in my book for over an hour. Oh the second card. So she's the first time she said she didn't know, and that I hadn't told her. When I said, Well, he threatened me, he's she's like, What do you mean? She tried to play dumb. And I was like, Well, she, you know, he threatened to hurt Nicole if I said anything. And then she was And Nicole is your sister? My Nicole is my sister, yes. Okay. And so um, then she played the card of, I'm trying to remember that day. Like, I don't, like, I know, like I walked up the stairs and I saw your window open and it was sunny, and uh it was in the afternoon, and we we had just gotten home from wherever. And I'm like, Cynthia, are you really trying to sit here and justify? Like, are you trying to make an excuse? And then she finally comes out and says, Yes, I know that Al Aldridge had sexually abused his daughters prior. There is a confession of that on a legal pad and on a tape recorder, sitting in the office of Praise, Power, and Prayer, which is the cult that I escaped from, um, in Windsor, Connecticut. So that being said, I went off on her. I said, So you knew, and you still allowed him in your home. You've been allowing him in your home to do these things to me. Um, that that's not okay. And she's like, Well, you know, I was the sing, I was a single parent. I was doing the best that I could. I thought I was dealing with a spiritual issue. And if I remember, and if you you don't remember how out of control you were. So that's what they say. They use that out of control as a tactic of trying to shame you, submit you to believe that, like, oh, it was really my fault. So that's how I told her, and that's how it all went down, and that's how I broke it out. And then I sent a letter to Al Aldridge letting him know that, yo, I know what you did. My sister knows what you did. And in about 24 hours, the whole world is gonna know what you did. And then I wrote a letter to the current leader of this organization, Ray McMahon, and I also let him know as well. I said, You were a part of it. You sat there and watched the whole thing go down, not just at the house, but at the organization, and you sat there and you did nothing. So that that's ultimately how it all came out. And so I started coming on TikTok and I blasted him. I I took his pic, I found pictures of him, I blasted him, and I knew like obviously I had some intent and some goals in there, which was just to, you know, let people know, like, stay away from this dude. And I knew at one point his daughters or one of his daughters would be reaching out because they all have TikTok. Well, 2021, I get a Facebook message from one of his from his youngest daughter, and basically saying, look, my sisters and I, we see the our dad being posted. We're sorry that he did that to you, but we don't want to be involved. Don't tag our names in it, don't mention us, basically confirming that he was a piece of shit dad to them, which confirming already what I knew. And so I I knew that they were gonna reach out. I just cause wasn't expecting that kind of a response. I was expecting them to come after me and they didn't. And you have to remember, like, I hadn't seen his daughters, his youngest daughter the last time I saw her, she was in second grade. So there's just a lot there. And and she's like, you know, and she she confirmed and validated, like, yeah, your aunt treated you like garbage, and I hated seeing that. And so that that really confirmed a lot of things in all of that. Uh, I they can't come forward because of the repercussions their dad will have on them for coming forward. So I said, fine, like I I I'm not, I'll respect your privacy. But I said, if you ever do choose to come forward, this is who you need to talk to. This is where you need to go. And I said, if you ever feel like you want to go after my aunt legally, I 100% back that up. So they they support me, but they don't. Like it's kind of one of those, one of those iffy situations, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

And I was thinking too, as you were saying that, because of the cult that this is in, and people don't understand these evangelical cults are still cults, even though, for all intents and purposes, they might seem normal from the outside. They are very much a cult on the inside. If you are a member and you're involved, that's what I was thinking. Like, the daughters may have been like good for Heather for speaking out, good for you, but they're not gonna necessarily say good for you, but they're not gonna be like, stop talking about my dad. It's kind of like they're sort of towing that line between like giving you props, but also they don't want to say that because then that would be like going against the cult leader, so to speak. Because people who are listening that do not understand what it's like, they think like, well, why don't you just leave, or why don't you just stop going to that church, or why don't they understand the level of control. Like, we are taught if you go against the quote unquote man of God, that like something terrible is going to happen to you. Even if you're in a terrible situation within that cult, you think that whatever is gonna happen if you leave is going to be 10 times worse than that.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah. And and the thing is, is like, and they're going up against their dad. Like they don't that too.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

I mean, in and of itself is is a hard dynamic. But, you know, guys like that, they put themselves the cult, the church that that, you know, these cults are there, they put the man of God, as they call them, on this pedestal that they are like untouchable, and that if you try to take them down, that you are in danger of God's wrath or in danger of going to hell. So you're like, well, that virtually makes them untouchable, right? Okay, so I'm a I'm I just want to ask, like your parents, you live with your your aunt at that point, you're not with your parents, or so ultimately how this came about, I was taken from the foster care system.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

I was adopted for all set and purposes. I was legally adopted through the state of Maine. My birth mom's a drug or alcoholic, um, still is, unfortunately. Um, and my dad just had a lot of he has special needs as well. And you know, in the 80s, it was, I mean, DCF makes you jump through hoops regardless, no matter what year. But especially back in the 80s when there wasn't a lot of a lot of support for men for trying to be a single dad, he didn't have a lot of support. Um, yeah, he had his mom, which is my grandmother, but like, and that was all great, but like he needed more support. Um, and they were asking him, like they were demanding him to basically get a three-bedroom house, two jobs, and he just couldn't do it. So he he did try, although he should have tried harder in some other aspects of my life, but at that during that time frame, he tried. And there was just so from there, it was in and out of the foster care system for eight and a half years. I mean, just it starting from biome back to foster homes, back and forth, back and forth, until finally the judge was just like, Yeah, we're done. You've had eight years, you've had more than enough time to get it together, you're done. So my dad gave up his rights, and then my birth mom's rights were were severed, like they were legally terminated. And so that kind of led my aunt into the door of, well, let's keep, let's try to keep them in the family. Let's try to keep the girls together. Um, because that is unfortunately DCF thing. Like they want to keep siblings together, they want to bring them back into the family. I don't necessarily agree with bringing them back to bio, but everybody is different, every case is different. And so my dad was like, Yeah, like anything I can do to like see them, you know, if that means keeping them in the family, let's do it. So my aunt literally portrayed it as, well, the Lord told me that the girls were gonna belong to me and that they're mine. Um, so she went on like this three, it took her three years to file like all the paperwork, everything to come through, so much so that everything was signed, documented, and ready to go on February 13th of '93 or '94. I always get the year confused. And then she actually picked us up in a blizzard on February 14th. That is just how that played out. Yeah. And I was sick. Oh, that yeah. And I was sick with bone crite bronchitis that day too. I was like, oh hey, oh my god. Yeah. So we were we were picked up in a blizzard. Um if anybody's been in Maine, you know, winters there are harsh. And so it's a blizzard, it's a blizzard. You want to be prepared. But yeah, so that's kind of how it all happened. And then even from there, like from that day, there were already signs. There were signs that like she was not ready for what was about to walk into her life. Like, to take care of foster care kids, you have to go through trauma classes, you have to go through a certain level of training. You can't just take a kid and be like, yeah, okay. And and for her, it was she wanted to fix me through the church. Like that was her vision. Well, she doesn't need therapy, she doesn't need psych psychiatric treatment. Like the Lord's gonna heal her. And that may sound beautiful. I don't know. The reality is that's not true. Like, you can't. There's no, there is no healing that way. Like, you're nothing's getting healed. What's getting healed? Because I still have all this. Like, she thought she could heal me having feta optail syndrome by by casting demons out of me every weekend. Like it's just it by or by going to 48-hour revival services with no food. She thought, like, you know, she'll just get healing. She did her like anything to get to get this out of me, and anything from they don't like it if there's kids brought in from the foster care system, because that means they're bringing in demons, they're bringing in these things. And so I was brainwashed to believe that me having FETA alcohol syndrome and me having my trauma and PTSD is a is indeed a result of my disobedience. I disagree with that, obviously. Um, no, let let's take, instead of taking accountability and saying, oh, well, her mother did her biological mother did these things to her. So there's no, instead of taking on that aspect of it, they just go straight to the well, I was in disobedience or I did something, what Pentecostals do. So that in a nutshell is just how there were just red flags the first night there, the whole week, the first week in the house, the first night she didn't know how to handle me. I had a complete meltdown. Um, she thought I was trying to get attention. Even my sister Nicole was trying to tell her, like, no, like you literally just moved us like five states away. Like, we don't know where we are. Like our rooms are bare. Like you just took us from a home that we were with for three and a half years. Like, what did you expect? Did you expect her to come to and just be like, oh, yeah, this is reality? Like, no, this is traumatizing. And so we actually had to call my foster mom and get her on the phone. That was the only way she could calm me down was to get my foster mom on the phone and be like, Heather's freaking out. I don't know what to do. And again, she was warned. Like, my aunt was warned by said foster family. Cynthia, this is gonna, this is a bad idea. We see that you love your nieces, but this is going to be a this is going to backfire. Like they were she was warned. She was warned, and I can promise you, and I can say this with my full chest, it has completely backfired on her. Now, on every level, it has backfired so much so. I know I'm jumping ahead, but so much so. She was escorted off church property two years ago, okay? Um, at my sister's service. So that's a whole different story. Um, but yeah, that's that we'll get there. But yeah, my aunt has been warned, like she's that this is backfired, like everything. And she was just like, no, Lloyd's gonna heal her, blah blah blah. Nope. So there were signs the first night. I mean, just there's neglect, then there's just things that happened where she would leave us out in the car by ourselves at nine o'clock at night while she's in her prayer closet on the phone praying. And then, you know, my sister and I, one thing after another, we messed around in the car, the car started rolling down the driveway, and I got pinned under the car. True story.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, I got we got pinned, I got pinned under. So my sister, so Nicole was sitting in the front. Okay, but the whole story though, like who in their right mind, what parent would leave their eight and nine-year-old in the car at eight o'clock at night, pitch black, dark, like unattended without an adult, right? Like that's just everything, I think everybody would know. Like, that's not okay. You wouldn't do that. And so my sister wanted to know what the little lever in the middle in the front and between the front seat did, right? Typical child. So she moved it and it started rolling down the driveway. We both got out, and I realized I left my doll in my purse. And so I know child problems, priorities, right? And so I I went while the car was moving down the driveway, I ran to it, opened the door, jumped in, got my doll, got my purse, went to get back out, and literally fell and got pinned under the right side of the car. And so the right side of the car, like the tires were rolling up and down my leg at least 10 times. I was screaming, belting for help. And like my sister ran into the house and was like, Oh, like Heather's pinned under the car, blah, blah, blah. And so my aunt's yelling at her, like, what's how did this even happen? What were you doing? Like, you were supposed to be watching her, and she's still on the phone. So the cops who was she on the phone with Martha Davis, the head leader of the organization. Yeah. So the cops call, like, somebody calls the cops, and our family friend showed, and my aunt told the cops that oh well, there was somebody breaking into the house. There's there was no Breaking, there was no, and the cops searched. Like, the cops went around the backyard. We had like we had like an acre of land, like we had a pretty big yard, and so like they went around the back patio. They were like, No, nothing's there's been no force entry, there's nothing, nobody's so even the cops knew she was lying. Like, what are you talking about? Like, and he they even he even the cops even told her, like, if somebody had been break breaking into your house, you wouldn't be standing, you wouldn't have been on the phone in in the house, you would have been outside. So, even law enforcement was calling her her BS out, and so yeah, so nothing broke. I just got bruises for three weeks and had to wear a thing, and my sister had to cater to my every need. Wow, you got really lucky there. Truly, and and at the end of it, my sister obviously took the hit, like, you know, I'm really sorry. And I said, No, like you did what I would have done. You just had the balls to do it. Like, you just we both wanted to pull that thing, and it's like we were kids, but the real person to blame is our aunt. Like, where was she? Like, she shouldn't have been leaving us alone in the car, right? And so there's just there, those were like the red flags. Like, no, you don't leave two young girls in the car at eight o'clock, nine o'clock at night. Like, that's not, and then like the next day, like the leader of the organization came and was like screaming at me and telling me that I needed to repent for being disobedient and not listening that night in the car, and that yeah, it was a whole thing, so it was all my fault, I think.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

So you guys were so close in age, so you were close growing up, you did everything together, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Like for the for for the first nine years of our lives, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Yeah, so when you got essentially adopted by your aunt, what how old were you at that point?

SPEAKER_00 23:54

So I was eight, and my sister was so you guys were eight and nine.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

That was right after then, right after she took you to the house.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah, she was about to be 10.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Yep. Wow. Okay, so you really you essentially grew up in this call. It wasn't like you you joined when you were 16, 17, 18 years old.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

I grew up in it.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

I grew up in it. Yeah. Was there ever a point, even as a child, where you were like, this is screwed up? Like this is not, this place is not right, or did it take you till you were well into your teenagers to figure that out?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Um, so like when I was like younger, like I didn't really pay attention, to be honest. Space it, I was eight.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah. But I just think about because I know Pettiscastles, they like speak in tongues and things like that. I feel like that would be scary to see. Like if I was.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

No, so when I realized something was off was when they started doing the all-night prayer meetings quite frequently, and then they do like Bible studies that turned in to be like deliverance services. And so there's there is one specific, one specific Wednesday where we were at we were there and um we were all at the altar, and of course, like my sister and I, we were out cold in like two seconds, like we're like, we're going to sleep. Yeah, like this is boring. Time for a nap. And so I when I woke up, I looked next to me, and I literally saw my aunt Al Waldridge and then Ray McMahon at the piano singing CC wine-in songs, and they were my aunt and Al were sending holding a paper towel under this person's mouth. And this individual was my third grade teacher whom I adored. And so I looked up and I was like, what's going on? Like, what? And they were vomiting. Yeah, like they were forcing her to like repent and cast demons out of her, and like they were forcing her to throw up. So, like, literally, literally seeing her kneeling or like bending over in her own vomit. Like, that's when I was like, this isn't okay. Like, and then because the school and the organization is all one building, I had to go back to the building the next morning to go to school, and I had to sit in her classroom and see her and be like, I can't say anything. Awkward situation. And I just, it's, I mean, there's no lightheartedness to what happened. It's very, and this happened all the time. But I was just like, yeah, this isn't okay. And then it turned on to me, and then I just started getting devils cast out of me, and then I was getting sexually abused, so it's just and that started when you were before you were 18.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

It didn't start when you were like nine, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

So I I will just say I the abuse started immediately as soon as I entered the home.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

That just that makes me want to vomit, honestly. It's terrible. And of course, I'm sure they used it as you know, uh under the guise of Christianity and we're saving your soul, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah, it was it was more of a it was more of like a punishment thing. But and and I hit I got the brunt of it, like every little thing, like even like keeping my sister's escape a secret, like I was sexually abused for that, for not telling.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

So your sister escaped the house.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah, she escaped, she escaped in 2001. How old was she when she escaped? So she I'll see, how you're gonna make me go back. She was actually entering her freshman year of college, so she was 18. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

So she was like, screw this, I'm done, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah, so shockingly, interestingly enough, my sister didn't even want to go to college. That was not her thing. Like, she didn't want to go to school, she wanted to be a cop. That was her dream to be a cop. She went to the training for it, she went to the academy, like she went to like police explorers, all for it. Like she was gun-ho, signed up, even though like my aunt signed her up against like against her her will. Like my aunt didn't want it, basically. And my aunt fought her for it. And my sister's like, no, this is something I really want to do. And so to appease her, she let her do it. And of course, she was enjoying it. And my aunt was freaking out, like, I can't believe they would let her have a gun and have a stun gun and all this stuff. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure they're like they're watching her, they're not gonna just let her have a have a have a weapon, like it was a stun gun, but still the the essence of a gun, right? And so they were like, we're not gonna, like I said, Cynthia, I think I know, I think they know what they're doing. They're not just handing her a gun and say, here, have at it. Like they're trained officers, like they're training her. Um, and of course, I wish her rebuffed for stepping in and defending my sister. And then they wanted to sign her up. They're like, Yeah, like we want you in the academy, we're ready to do this. And my sister, this is something that like Nicole bragged about. Like, she went, she would go to school the next day and be like, dude, I got to use a stun gun last night. Like, oh, like she was all for it. And and they were like, Oh, can you bring it? Like, we want to see it. And she's like, No, like we're not allowed to do that. You know, she was all like, couldn't be more happier about that whole thing. And in her element, like she loved it. And cult leaders got word that she wanted to sign up and be a cop, and they told her no. And next thing I know, my aunt, the next that weekend, my aunt is handing her a bunch of Christian college brochures and universities. And my sister's like, Look, I don't want to do this. Like, this is to see the crush, like to see my sister's face just completely drop. Like, I don't want to do this. Like, this isn't what I want to do. And the whole concept was, well, you and you're being selfish. Have you at have you prayed about it? Have you prayed about it? If I hear that one more time, have you prayed about it? Or like, what is God telling you to do? And my sister's like, I don't want to go, like, this isn't something I want to do. And so my sister quickly had to come up with like a major study, and she went into social work, which obviously I know that that's what she, you know, and four years, and she went into a Christian college, and that's how she got out. She planned it from the tea. Like, she started spilling the beans at hall, like on campus, like this is what's going on. And of course, like her fear of going meant leaving me behind. She's like, I because I told her, I'm like, Nicole, this is your way out, go do it. This is your way out. And she's like, but I don't want to leave you behind because I know what's gonna happen to you. Like, I know what they're gonna do to you. So that that piece of I'm leaving my little, my special needs sister behind and that she's being abused. And like that means I have to leave her and it's gonna get worse. And it is she's not wrong, it got worse. And so 20 in summer of 2021, I she had my sister had called, we were having a conversation, and she's like, she had told me privately, she's like, hey, just to let you know, like I got a job. And I was like, that's great. Secure to campus. Like she got a job working for security campus, because believe like they have this thing where if you can find a job, you can live on campus, right? And that's a lot of those camp, a lot of campuses offer that. Um, and so she's like, heck yeah, if that means free, free room and board for the summer, I'll do it. And so she's like, you know, just don't say anything because like I know Cynthia's gonna flip her. My our aunt's gonna flip her. And I was like, you got it. Lips sealed, I don't know what you're talking about. Like I kept I kept that secret till and till the end of time. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. And she's like, okay, yeah, she so she planned it, like she coordinated it. She was like, okay, what are we gonna do? And so that November of 2021, we came home for she came home for Thanksgiving. And she's like, Yeah, I'm leaving Saturday instead of whatever day. So she left the day early, which was in her works, but not in my aunt's works. Like my aunt was expecting her to be home longer. And um, I just remember my sister going upstairs and grabbing a bunch of stuff, and I was like, This is it. Like she she went to she grabbed her flute, she was grabbing all her things and grabbing her favorite sweatshirt, and I was like, Oh, okay, this is this is it. So I knew, and so she got all her stuff, and then basically my aunt found out, like, wait, I thought you were staying longer. She's like, No, I have to be at work at such and such a time. So she got that's how she got out. Like, my aunt literally flipped her crap, but she left. She's like, I'm not coming home, like I have to go to work, and that's how it was for every summer after that, every holiday after that was like, Yeah, I'm I'll be home for Thanksgiving, but I'm not staying. I'm coming to see Heather, but I'm not staying. And so my aunt literally, and she was adamant about make sure you pack your Bible, you make sure you have your Bible. Um, well, secretly, what she doesn't know is that I hit I hid my sister's Bible in my doll cradle. I took it for her. I was like, let me have this, I'll go hide it. But we hit a lot of things in that doll cradle, and so we're just like, just go. Like, I get it. And so that there were repercussions. There were the repercussions for me for holding that secret and not telling, not spilling the beans. Um, I was sexually abused that night.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

And that was by the pastor. So the pastor that was there at the time was the one that SA gave. Okay. Yeah. Did is so he's not there any longer. No, actually, he and his family got kicked out right before I did.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Well, how did they get kicked out? Right, yeah. So this is this is the pattern. They either get kicked out or they leave on their own. From what I remember, they were asked to leave because of they were doing like witchcraft abominations, and Al wasn't getting right with the Lord, and there was this that remember that confession I had said earlier that my aunt had recorded, and he was asked to step down and get right with God, and I guess that wasn't happening. And so they're like, Yeah, you have to leave.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Do you know what happened to him after he left?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

So I've heard some things, unfortunately. They went to a different church.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Um I knew you were gonna say that.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah, they went to a different church with the Christian school, and they sent the younger, um, they sent the three younger daughters to that school and their son. And from what I have seen from one of the younger daughters on her TikTok at the time, it didn't go well. It was she experienced some abuse as well. But that's just what I've I've heard. I've also heard that in 2010 he got cancer. I don't feel sorry for him, and he's okay now. Um, but from my understanding, he has no relationship with his children. That that was made clear to me with the youngest daughter that reached out to me, was like, my sisters and I, we don't speak to him. We there is no relationship there, there is no communication except for the oldest one. The oldest one has children and he sees her and the grandchildren. And I'm not surprised given that it was his three oldest ones that he sexually abused.

unknown 36:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Oh my gosh, why would you let your kids around him? I don't understand. I will never understand that.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah, I don't, I don't either. Then back it up to 2021, I decided to fly out to Connecticut to confront him face to face. He attempted to break into my hotel room claiming to be housekeeping.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Wait, what? Okay, all right, hold on. So how did you know where he ended up like landing?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Found out just through several different people that have seen my TikToks and have reached out to me. So word travels.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Yeah, so he knew you were in town. He yes, he someone somebody tipped him off.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Yep, and I know who. Yep. And I called down to the front desk and I was like, there's no way that that was housekeeping.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

So was he like in full-time ministry again? Was he like a pastor or an assistant pastor or anything?

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Well, I don't think so. I don't think he, I don't think he does. I know he's involved in his church, but I don't know to what extent. I don't have any of that info. I don't know if he's ever, I don't think so, but I know he's active in his community and active in his church, and that's why like his daughters are not speaking up.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

So, for people who are listening who maybe aren't familiar with like the deliverance ministry, and I put air quotes around that, let's talk about that for a second. Because that to me, when I think of religious trauma, that's extremely traumatic. Um even if you're not like a participant, even just watching it can be very traumatic. It's yeah, it's wild. So let's let's explain that for people who are like, uh, what the heck is the deliverance?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

It's wild. It's wild. Okay. It's it kind of goes in with the whole like revival services and the 24-hour prayer service. Yeah, so deliverance service is literally an altar call, so to speak, where you're going up saying that you want to be delivered from a biblical sin or something that you're doing that you know is biblically wrong, whether that's cheating, lying, whatever it may be. And then some of them will come down the row and they'll just lay you out in the spirit on the floor. Other times they'll take their hand and push on your forehead and like push you back, and they'll scream at you, saying, like saying things like a devil, you need to come out of her now, and they'll command the demon to come out of you, or it will be in a situation like we had talked earlier about seeing my teacher vomiting. Um, so it kind of happens in those in those type of settings, and we played the game to survive. That's what we did. Yeah. And we came up with we came up with just knowing, like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

And so and it it really became kind of a game to you guys. Like, I'm gonna go up there and tell them this, and it yeah, yeah, I could see that.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

It was a whole thing, and when it came to like seven-day fast with no food, and you had to like give up two meals, and the questions were asked, okay, well, what do you want to focus on? And like my sister and I used this against each other because she'd be like, Yeah, I want to work on having more patience with Heather, and I'd like we would recant it and then I had to redo for it, you know, or try to make some fun out of it. Yeah. Um, but but they always egged her on. And then it was like, well, you need to. This is what, if you really want to be delivered from this, then you need to fast from this. And so being kids, like, let me just make this loud and abundantly clear. It is never okay to make any child go without a meal, like one meal, let alone two.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

No, and that's appetites be crazy. I mean, I can't even keep food in this house, they are eating me out of house at home, so I don't even understand how you could have a kid fast for 24 hours. I mean, that's also very unhealthy for a child who's still developing. I mean, their blood sugar and everything, their levels will drop that could cause major issues, but that's not good at all.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

No, and that's how the that's how the prayer services, the overnight prayer services went too. This 24-hour prayer service, all night prayer service that would lead in. It would start at 6 30 on Friday night, it wouldn't end until four o'clock the next afternoon. And we were hungry, like we we went back to the house and we just got whatever we could because we were starving.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Like, yeah, no, no, hungry, you're tired, you're all those things. Yeah, yeah. You know what's really weird is when you were telling me that they and I've seen this on TV, I've seen the Benny Hins and the Kenneth Copelands, and all I've seen all of those where they take the palm of their hand and they push it against the forehead, and the person falls down or starts convulsing or whatever they do. I okay, by the time this episode air, it's gonna be probably two or three weeks from the time that the episode with Kirsten, the psychic medium, airs. Hers is coming out tomorrow. So that's gonna be what is tomorrow's day? February 10th. Okay. So for anyone listening, if you haven't heard Kirsten's episode yet, please go listen to it. It will make sense what I'm saying. So Kirsten is a psychic medium. I've never had a psychic medium on this platform before. I think she's fascinating. I think she's amazing, I think she is full of all things light and love. I mean, I was so energized after talking to her. I could just talk to her for hours. She's just so intriguing to me. But one of the things that she said was that people can absorb negative energies and negative entities, i.e. demons, from the palms of their hands and the soles of their feet. So, like, and I didn't think to ask her this when we were going into this whole talk about that, but I don't know if your church did this, but we always had this part in the service where we would greet each other and everyone would shake hands. And she even said, she's like, you can get you can get a transfer of energy from shaking a person's hand, touching a doorknob of somebody that has a bad entity, like a bad negative vibration, and it will absorb through the palms of your hand. She also, I know about chakras. So we talked about chakras, right? So, like, this is where your third eye is. Right there. That's your third eye. This is like where your mind says, like, it's like where the alarm bells are gonna go off. Like, if something isn't right, your third eye is gonna tell you. So they take the palm of their hand and they push it against your third eye. That I don't know. Maybe I'm reading into it. I just think it's weird. It's just coincidental. I'm just saying. It just when you were telling me that, I was like, oh my gosh, I never thought about that. Yeah. There might be something to it. I don't know. I'll have to ask her. Kind of weird though that they do that. And I've seen it where they like actually slap people on the forehead. Yeah. So what's the difference? Is it like this person really? Has like a worse sin than this person because this person might just get pushed and it might get straight up.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

They're the same, it just means that the demon is harder to get out.

unknown 44:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

How is the demon exiting out? That's what I want to know. No, that's what I want to know because it's quite free. It hasn't worked. Where is the demon coming out of you from? Right. Because I mean, according to Kirsten, she said that basically if you have a negative energy or like an evil entity that you feel you're being possessed or oppressed with, that you can demand that it leave and it has to go, it has to obey you. That's true. But I don't think you need to do all this like holy water and freaking olive oil and all this other like that's not going to do anything to a demon. A demon is an entity, it's a spirit. So why why would all of that rigmarole do anything to it?

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Your guess guess mine.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Oh my gosh. It's so weird, isn't it? I mean, cults are so weird. They're just, I don't know. I I've gotten to the point where I really think that all organized religions are somewhat culty.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Um they are, they are all of them.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

They really are. Like when you step back and look at it, and I always tell people it's like there is a spectrum where you might have some that are a little bit like cult-ish, and they might not be super controlling, or you might not have one specific leader, but they're cultish, and then you have like straight up hardcore cult like over here. Yeah. Yeah. So yours yours sounds more on this end of it. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

True story.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Yeah. Okay. When you were coming up to like 17, 18 years old, where did you have in your head where you're like, I'm getting out like my sister? You did you have like a game plan? You didn't. You just felt like you were trapped. Like, there's no way I can get out of this.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah, there there was no way. So I will say this that I didn't plan it. I just did it, and I left with a knife to my throat. I literally tried to take my own life. That's how I got out. Oh my gosh. In 2006, my aunt had pulled me out of my last year of this special needs program in Boston that I was in. And she had, oh, it's a mess. This I this whole story is in my book, by the way. Like this to to because I can't really like we'd be here for another two hours if I try to tell you everything.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

But yeah, and we don't want to give too many things out because I want people to go and get your book. I want people to read your book. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

So basically she pulled me out, right? Because I'm I'm not in obedience and I'm not doing what the cult is asking me to do, which is breathe, sleep, pray to talk to Jesus every two seconds of the day on campus. And I was committing fornication. Okay. Um, so she left me, she picked me up, left me on the side of a freeway in a hotel in Boston, uh Cambridge, Massachusetts, to be exact. Um, and told me I had three nights and three days to repent, yada, yada, yada. Played the game, right? And uh I remember I was talking to my college best friend, I was talking to my best friends at college. I'm like, what do we do? Like, I I don't, like I want to stay here, but I'm not allowed. And their hands were tied, they were not allowed. They, there was nothing that they could have done. Um, and so I went back to Connecticut and my stuff wasn't even allowed inside. I was literally bare, I was only allowed to take the bare minimum. And she's like, Okay, like you're not allowed to be in the house alone. You need to go to find work. I'm dropping you off at the mall tomorrow. And she would for like the the next two weeks, I was being dropped off at different malls from like eight in the morning until five o'clock at night. No money for food, no nothing. So I had finally found a job. And of course, because I'm special needs, like I didn't really know how to fill out a job application. I didn't really know like what to do. And finally found a job, came home that night, went to another eight-hour service, and Ray McMahon had already gotten the 411 on me about what I had supposedly done. And so I just was like, I need to talk to somebody. At this point, the third grade teacher had already left the organization. She had been out like a couple of years, and I was trying to talk to one of her kids because I still talked to her kids. And I was like, Can I talk to your mom? And, you know, trying to get her on the phone. I was also in contact with my birth mom at the time too. So I'm like, what do I do? My birth parents were like furious. They're like, no, we know you didn't do anything wrong. Like, we're livid. This is not okay. And like, we what can we do? What are we gonna do? And even Nicole didn't know really what to do. She was surviving herself, she had just escaped, like she's just trying to figure it out all on her own. So she wasn't really like anything that she did to help at the time. It's like, okay, great. And so that night, came home. I was in the kitchen, my aunt was in her prayer closet, and I was making lunch for the next day. And I had a butcher knife and I was cutting some stuff, and she came out and was like demanding to know who I was talking to on the phone and basically saying, You have no business speaking to your dad. Like, I'm I run this house, like I'm in charge, not your dad, and like just saying that like I had no business talking to my birth mom. And basically, she caught on to the fact that I was trying to expose what was going on. And in that moment, I took that butcher knife and I actually still have a scar on the side of my neck, like right here. And I I drove it in as much as I could, and then I threw the knife down on the counter and I said, I'm done. Like, I next thing I know, she called the cops. I was it like literally trying to hide in my closet, and next thing I know, there's a pound on the door and it's freaking five cops, and they had my hands behind my back, which by the way, they handled that wrong. Like you someone with trauma and PTSD, you don't want to do that too.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

Um right, yeah. And also, are you not gushing blood?

SPEAKER_00 50:48

No, because I didn't really cut. Oh I I it was like the tip of it, so it was the tip of the knife, and I just put the tip of it like I did enough to like make a mark, but not bleed. Oh my gosh. Yeah, to get the point across, like this is serious. And so they were like, Listen, obviously, something's going on, like you can go or we can make you go. And I was like, get me out now, get me out. So I went to St. Francis Hospital in Hartford, Connecticut. I was under 48-hour watch, and 48 hours later, the social worker's like, Yeah, you're good to go home. Call your aunt, have her come get you. Called my aunt, and she was basically like, No, I told you I was done. The Lord's done as well. Like, you're on your own, you're not coming back here. And she's like, Yeah, you're not welcome back until you've made things right. So, of course, the social warfare had some colorful words to say and was like, You got to take her somewhere if you're not gonna take her home. Um, and so the current lead pastor, Ray McMahon, showed up with my aunt in the car together, picked me up, dropped me off at a homeless shelter in Manchester, Connecticut, nine o'clock at night. So walking into this homeless shelter and literally seeing pedophiles and a convicted killer. And then having a mom and a single mom and a daughter next to me. That's what I was sleeping next to all night. And basically it was said the same things. Two days later, Ray came with his 18, uh, 15 passenger red and white van, showed up with my aunt and dumped my stuff in the parking lot of the set homeless shelter because my birth mom decided to come get me. My sister was like, listen, like if Melanie or birth mom is saying she'll come get you and help you, go. Like, I know it's not safe, I know it's not ideal, but it's gonna get you where you need to go. And so met my birth mom for the first time in 2006. That was a nightmare. I wish to never relive. She showed up drunk and drove all the way back home to Maine drinking. Yes, I know that was this, I know, wasn't my best moment, but when you're in the moment, when you're surviving, you're gonna do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

That is how I ultimately escaped. And then two years later, I went back to the house to get all my stuff.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

Okay, and then when you went back, was your aunt there? Well, there was a show. There was a show.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Okay, she called up all the elders. Oh gosh, and uh so similar with Nicole, like her stuff was thrown out on the front lawn. She wasn't allowed in the house, all her stuff was thrown out on the front lawn, and uh my stuff I went to go get because there were still there. I was like, there's no way like she had brought most of it down, but I was like, no, I'm still missing some stuff. Like I like there's a dollhouse that my foster parents had given me, like I wanted to go get it, and I had friends um that were with me at the time, and I said, Kathy, this is good, this can go down two ways. Either she can let me go up and let me get my stuff, or we can call the police and they will escort me upstairs. So my aunt didn't want to deal with that, she didn't want to deal with the police because the police, you know, in a panestosophole, like the police are evil, like they're evil, sure.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Um yeah, because the police could sniff out some and be like, uh, there's something weird going on. Yep, maybe it needs to be investigated.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Yep, and so she let me up, let me get all the stuff. And as I was walking up to my room, I could see in my sister's room that like all her furniture was gone, the walls had been repainted, the blinds had been taken down, like literally as if we didn't exist. So I got all my stuff and I said, This is it, we're done. And oh yeah, she had elder after elder after elder there, and they were just staring me down and like smiling, and I was like, dude, like, don't even talk to me. And so after that, it was like a back and forth of manipulation with my aunt. Like, she would reach out, or she'd be like, Well, I just got this bill in the mail with your name on it, like trying to reach out and have contact with me. And then we finally broke it off. We're just like, No, we're done. Like, you don't get to do this. And Nicole had broken it off as well. And then fast forward to 2023, I lost my sister to suicide the day before her 41st birthday. So she never saw 41. I was like, okay, I gotta get home. My foster parents didn't want me knowing, like they literally did everything to keep this from me, including making a public post about it. And then coming back.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

So your foster parents knew about your sister taking her life before you did?

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Oh, I I was the last to find out. Do you know how? Tell you how I found out. I found out on TikTok. What? From who? So August 6th of 2023, I woke up starting my day like every other, like coffee, espresso with the oat milk, the whole thing, journaling, the art. And then I I scrolled the social medias and I had seen a picture on one of my so one of my foster sisters' Facebook page. I'd seen she had updated her profile picture of her picture, and it was like a family picture with my sister in it, which I should be there, but hey, whatever. Kind of like a slap in my face, but like, okay, cool, whatever. It's the typical family picture, right? And they were all wearing t-shirts that said for tough. And I was like, and then I was looking at the comments, and it everyone was saying, like, oh, she was such a sweet person, like, she'll be missed. And I was like, what? And so I went on to another foster sister's page where she had a picture, her profile picture was exactly her and my sister. And I was looking, and then they had the family photo, and I was looking and I was like, same kind of comments. This is so sad. So I'm confused as all hell. Because I'm like, oh, maybe like our fat maybe our foster mom's cancer came back, whatever. That's what I went to. So I reached out to the first foster sister. I was like, is everything okay? And she's like, no, and I can't talk about it. I said, is mom okay? And she's like, yeah, she's fine. And I get blocked. What? Yep. Why? They don't want me to know. So I reached out to foster brother's biological sister and was like, listen, I need to know what's going on. I'm seeing these photos, and it clearly nothing is wrong with foster mom. Like, it's some something's going on. And she was reaching out in the background, and I was basically told, this is what I was told, forbatum from this foster brother. I can't say anything. You're gonna have to wait for the obituary to come out.

SPEAKER_02 57:53

Had you and your sister lost contact with each other? You did.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Yeah, we we we did not get along. No, we we were we were not so of course I'm rampant livid. Um, and so I got on TikTok and I demanded, like I went live and I demanded. I was like, if anybody knows, like I was saying her name, I was like, anybody know her? Cause at the time, that's when I found her LinkedIn page. And on her LinkedIn page, it had said that she'd moved back to Maine and that she got a security job working at Target. And if anybody knows, like when you take a security job at Target, but you were a cop, like you were a dispatcher, you're kind of going down on that lower level of pay. That's not something that Nicole would have done. She moved back to Maine. And um, I was like, okay, I was like, well, this is interesting. I wasn't made aware of all that, but whatever. And so I was like, Yeah, this is she works at Target. And so finally a girl got on and she's like, Yeah, is her name Nicole Ford? And I was like, Yeah, I said she worked for the Boston Police Department. And she's like, Yeah, Nicole was supposed to come in for shift tonight at Target, and she never showed up. And I was like, Okay. And I was like, What are they? Do they know? Like, and they're saying that she passed away, and they're like, Do you know from what? And they're and the girl was like, They're saying it was suicide. Oh my gosh. So I make a post, obviously, with pictures and everything like that. And foster mom's like, you can you just take that down? Cause like we just want to remember her the way we what the way she should be, and like we were trying to keep this all private. And I was like, You didn't do a good job of keeping it private because I found out. And I said, Second of all, if Nicole didn't want anybody knowing where she lived, then putting that she moved back to Maine on her LinkedIn account was probably not the best choice. Yeah. So that being all said, I found out I got the screenshots from their post. I hot girl, your girl's a hot mess. Like uh just it's been a hot mess for two years. And so I was like, I literally was pulling teeth just to get the obituary in time of the service. And so I'm reaching out to my best friend back solemn main, like, can you please like find the obituary? Can we find the services? And finally, like I'd reconnected with my foster brother, and he was like, let me see what time the services are. So I reached out to foster mom. I said, I just want to let you know, I'll be there this weekend. And she's like, okay. And she's like, just to let you know, like, you know, Nicole, Nicole, like, we're doing this. How Nicole wants this is about Nicole. I'm like, okay. I don't know. Like, I don't know why you're trying to pick a fight with me. Like, we were the first two in your home. The first two to enter, the first two to leave, and the first to lose, you lost one of us. Like, I have and so she was like trying to convince me, like, she didn't want me to go. So I said, I'm coming because I'm her sister and I have every right to be there. I was not allowed to stand and speak, say anything about her. I was not included in what and how the service went. I was put in, I was listed in the obituary as her biological sister. That was like a dig at me. It just, yeah, I was I I've been left out. I've been left out on a lot of things. And so I went, and of course, like they saw me and their attitudes changed a little bit and whatnot. And they had photos, they had everything, but the service was an actual complete joke. It was a come back to God kind of thing. Like the whole thing should have been focused on my sister. And instead, it was this whole thing about turning back to God. Because in in the church, they think of suicide as a sin. So they're and my foster parents also worked for the governor of Maine. Okay. So you could what religion, what religion were they in? They're Baptists, they're like Baptists, non, like kind of like non-independent fundamental Baptists. Uh, not fundamental, no. Okay, Southern Baptists, Southern for or you want to call it northern, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

So I just like I put my foot down because I was like, because nobody's ever no, because like they're they're the kind of people that like you don't tell them no. So I was like, no, I'm showing up, I will be there. I at this point, a$600 plane ticket is nothing to me. Like, I I'm going. This is my sister. And so yeah, they handled the pictures and everything like that beautifully. They they sent some pictures off to with me, they saved three photo albums for me. Like, there's some things that they did right, but at the end of it, there's some things that I wish they hadn't done. And I I don't agree with it, but I understand why they didn't tell me. And I guess like I I don't agree, like I said, I don't agree with it, but I understand now because my aunt showed up. So they asked. So I found out you find out family.

unknown 1:03:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

So when I when I tell you, everybody knew except for me. Everybody, bio family knew, bio cousins knew, everybody knew but me.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

I don't understand why your biological family didn't contact you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

Exactly, exactly, and that's what I don't understand because it was all hush-hosh kept a secret. So my foster mom was like, I because I didn't know biofamily knew. I didn't know, like I was reaching out to them thinking they didn't know, but lo and behold, they did know. And my foster mom had been in contact with my cousin, and she was like, Okay, we don't have a problem telling you. You can come to the service, but you can't tell Cynthia. And Jen basically was like, I can't promise you that I'm not gonna say something. So Cynthia gets on a plane from Arizona and flies out to Maine, thinking that she was going to be able to get into the doors of the church. My foster brother made it very well known the night before that mom and dad have security set up at the church. I was told, ha ha, funny. My sister-in-law told me, Yeah, I think they have security set up for you. I was like, why? Respectfully, you don't know me and you don't know my relationship with your in-laws.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

That's what they think you were gonna do, and why did they think you were gonna do something?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Uh laugh about it because it's it's like they don't really know that like when I was there, like I was their world, they're not gonna fall security on me. Like, that's just ridiculous. Like, you you clearly don't know the relationship I have with them. So come to find out, I was like, okay, it's there's only one or two people, birth mom or aunt, right? One or both are gonna show up, right? It's all like, oh great, sending pictures, sending here, send this picture, send that picture, relay that message. No, it was my aunt, and uh she showed up and uh she tried to get in, and they're like, no, like the family's asked that you leave. And she's like, please let me just sit in the back. I won't say anything, I won't, I won't disturb. And literally, she was walked down the steps, walked to her car by 10 security yards. I don't know what she was thinking because this this was a first responder service. So I don't know what she was thinking showing up in a church parking lot full of cop cars.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Like that's bold, right? Cop cars from Seward State.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

So was it your aunt who was creating this? Narrative about you saying you really need to be careful. Heather's gonna come, she might do something during the service, or was it somebody else that was creating this narrative about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

My foster mom was definitely my foster, my foster parents. They think that I'm crazy and uh too emotional.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

They're getting that information from your aunt. No, they're they're they're just I don't know. Or they're just basing that on how you were when you were eight years old.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

They're basing that off of how I was with how I was when I was with my aunt. Okay. Yeah. Right. You can't, so they showed up. They escorted her off the property, and like my foster lost limit. She's like, Yeah, well, she showed up. I was like, Well, this is the stuff that my aunt does. Like, she'll try to play the victim and the hero all in one. And she got again, she got told she was warned, and it backfired. It literally backfired on her. So, in that aspect, yes, my foster mom, my foster parents handled that great, like they were very protective of us in that meant in that manner. But it's she they're in they're in denial because she was like, Yeah, well, you know, like Cynthia really hurt Nicole. And I was like, Yeah, I know I was there for all of it. So totally dismissing what I I went through. So anyway, but not to bash them, not to shame them because they were amazing parents to us, and it, you know, anything ever happened to any kids in my care, like I would want them to go to them because they're they're really good parents. But dynamics have changed, so it's just yeah, that's how I found out. TikTok. Don't ever tell somebody that you loan that tick tock and Facebook are not the way to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

How do you think that the cult affected her differently than it affected you? My sister? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

So I mean, in the aspect of like my sister was never sexually abused or anything like that. So she didn't have to deal with all that. But I think she got the upper hand a lot because she was the oldest one. So she really wasn't in the home when I was getting abused. Um, she had to deal with like public humiliation and things like that. So I know that that really got to her. And they have the they have a tendency, the Pentecostal organizations have a tendency to pin you up against your family members and say things. And that's what they did to my sister and I. Like they would just say lies about me to Nicole and vice versa, to the point where like we hated each other and we stopped talking. That's just because we believed it. We believed everything that was said. So we didn't really have, like, I know it changed her perspective on a lot of things as far as religion. Like, she didn't, she's not active. Like, I remember she's she was saying how like uh my well, my foster brother had told me, like, yeah, like we tried to get her to come to church with us, and Nicole like got really angry and upset and was like, Don't ever bring it up again, and I'm not going. And just I think it really just destroyed her. Like, yeah, just but I think I think it really upset her more to be in that position where she felt like she couldn't stay to protect me. Yeah. Did she know what had happened to you? Um, no, she didn't know about the sexual abuse, but she knew I was being abused. She didn't know about the sexual abuse until uh 2017. So eventually she found out. I told her, yeah. I called and told her, yeah. What was her reaction to that? She wasn't surprised. Not that she knew, but she was like, I'm not surprised given what he did to his daughters. And she's like, I'm really, really sorry. You just have no idea like the guilt I have. I was like, she was in college at the time, so there was just nothing she could have done. And she was just like, you know, if you need me like to look into this legally, like here at the station, I can. I never took her up on it. I should have, but it is what it is, and it's yeah, she she knew eventually.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:09

Yeah. I I was I was immediately thinking, as your older sister, she probably did carry a lot of guilt that she wasn't able to process. Um, which a lot of times that is one of the main reasons why people do commit suicide, and it's very tragic and horrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

Yeah, she she even found my Instagram. She found my Instagram account, and I knew she was watching. Like she's literally seeing me call out details and name names, and I knew that that was triggering her own because she never dealt with it. And then going to work, being at the at the police department and dealing with everything and dealing with a traffic stop of a gunshot, and that was it. Did she leave a note or a message? She did. Yeah, I I am not allowed to have access to that because it was not addressed to me. Actually, I don't think it was addressed to anybody. Um it was just like a general It was a general. So she left her yep, she left her phone. It was next to her phone. And in the note, like at the top of the note, it had the code to her phone, it had all the codes to everything, and she left a video. I will never see that video. Um, unfortunately. And there was a note. When I called the autopsy place, they said there is a note, and I said, I know you can't give it to me because it's not addressed to me, but can you read to me what was in the note? And they read it. I was like, okay, it's kind of making sense now. Uh, and then there was some psychiatric drugs in our system. Okay, yeah, mixed with alcohol, and it was definitely it was planned. It was definitely planned. That's so tragic. I asked my foster sister, I was like, what led up to all of this? And basically she missed a day of work, uh, which is always the first sign, you guys. Like, that's the first sign you miss a day of work, like you're you don't show up for work, and then she missed her birthday party. So like she's never missed a birthday, and that's kind of rang like an alarm with my foster parents. That's not like Nicole to not show up, and then she didn't show up for work the next day. So when I called, because I called her and texted her on the third. So I was a day late, and the plot twist to this whole story is that on May 28th, which is my birthday, I attempted to take my life. And then three months later, my sister. So it's just a I and I don't really want to see the video. I don't think I need to see it, but I don't even know where she was buried. And then my sister had a dog, and the dog passed away very like six months after. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so they were buried together. I mean, she died a hero. I mean, routine traffic stop gone wrong in Dorchester Mass sergeant got shot and she saved his life. So uh one phone call, it's all it took. You know, I know that there's a lot of trauma there. She was and they told her she signed up for it. Like she reached out for help multiple times and they told her she signed up for it, she'll get over it if she needs to get over it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:30

Oh my gosh, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:33

There there isn't enough resources for our first responders. I will say that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:39

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:39

Yeah, yeah. It's just the stuff that they see on the front lines every day is just um yep, it's more than most veterans will ever see.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:51

And then she was also there for the Boston Marathon bombing. She took all those calls. So for her, that's like a day that like I know a lot of people like celebrate the Boston Marathon, right? But like she's like, that's not a day I want to remember. And so, like PTSD, right? Makes sense that that she did it. And I I get it, I understand because I've been there. I've been there too many times to count in the last two years. Um, so I I get it. I understand.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:21

What was the moment that you knew that you needed to tell your story publicly? 2020. I'm gonna write a book. That that's when you decided I'm writing this book. I'm gonna, or was it more just like you're putting it out on social media first?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

And then I put it out on social media first, and then I was like, to get the support, you know, because I looked at legal action. I did, I talked to lawyers, and I I will say, if you're not ready to talk to a lawyer and deal with the trauma, I would wait because it will bite you in the butt. And it did just that. I thought like I was gone ho. I got this, I can handle this. And I I remember I missed a week's worth of work because I was so traumatized and so I was reliving. And I actually had a lawyer, I had a female lawyer actually ashamed me and mock me for not reporting it sooner. I reported her. I was like, yo, bro, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:23

What?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:24

Yeah, I left a review and they saw the review and they called me and I was like, this is not acceptable. I and this lawyer had it had been an attack herself. So it's like, I'm like, okay, so now you're gonna sit here and shame me. Like, I was a child. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I was a child. So I don't, I just was I I did talk to a lawyer. I we made a police report in 2021, and they had to close the case because of the statute of limitations. So at this point, anything legal I choose to do, it's gonna be civil. Yeah. At this point, unfortunately. And trust, trust me, my aunt is number one on this list. Making that abundantly loud and clear. There is no, I hold no bar. Like just because she's my aunt doesn't make it okay. Um, does it does not? It's almost as like you might as well just handed her the weapon. So that's basically kind of what happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

So she helped facilitate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:25

Yeah, exactly. So she's going to be the one that's going to be held accountable first and foremost, before the other two. But yeah, so I I went live on TikTok with it. And I have a lot of people on TikTok that rally behind me and support me. Um, I'm also on other social media platforms. Right now I'm on Chatter Social and I've been sharing it on there in different rooms with a small group of people that like know who I am and know my story. And so they were like, Yeah, we're gonna help you. And then my friend, I two years ago, I picked up the whole book thing again and was like, okay, I'm just gonna write. What's the name of the book? So the name of the book, yeah, the name of the book is The Barbie Pink Walls that kept my secrets of abuse. The title was inspired by one of the chapters in the book, and that's what did it. And I hate pink for all that need to know. Pink is a very triggering coloring for me because that is the color of the walls of my bedroom during the time of the abuse. I don't like wearing it, I don't like seeing it. Yeah. So it was inspired. The pictures, everything, the artwork, the pictures. Like, I really wanted my sister to come out through that. And I tell you, my sister co-wrote this, like her hand is all through this. Like, pictures of my sister, everything is laid out beautifully. They're not long chapters, they're really not. They're about probably a page and a half. If they're more than that, I put them into two separate chapters, like part one, part two, just because it was too long. I will say, is a lot of talk about suicide, sexual abuse, and trauma. So FYI, it is not going to be a pleasant, it's not meant to feel good, but it is to call out the abuse. Absolutely, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:05

I always tell people that for those who are survivors of abuse in any form, how you can take something bad that happened to you, right? That you absolutely didn't deserve whatsoever, and create something good out of that to where you're able to help other people, you're able to bring awareness, you're able to tell your story. And even down to the cover, you have reclaimed even the color pink, which I think is so cool that you were able to do that. And it just it really does show Heather how far you have come in your healing journey, even though you might have days where it doesn't feel like it. You really like that shows me you have really come quite a ways in in the short time that you have. Okay, so where can people find your book?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:01

It is on Amazon, the Barbie Pink Walls that kept my secrets of abuse, and there'll be a link, we'll attach that. But hardcover paperback and the Kindle version.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:11

Cool, awesome. So, are you ever gonna do audible or to do an audio version of it? Probably not this round. Not this round. No, okay. So is there more books coming? Probably, yes. Well, before we close out, what do you hope that the readers will feel after reading your book?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:31

Yeah, so uh how do I how do I answer this question? Because I want to be blunt and honest. Be blunt and honest, that's what we want. Yeah, I you're either you're gonna get triggered. You're either gonna be triggered and you're gonna go heal your or you're gonna get triggered and you're gonna come after me. That's just how it's that's how it's gonna go. Um, because this does gear towards religion and Christianity and the church. And it it's it's okay to sit in somebody else's crap. It's okay to be uncomfortable. And this is where I wish the church at large would wake up because if you started sitting and being uncomfortable in other people's pain and actually listening to them and actually caring, like your church might be a little bit better. Uh there's no sugar coating it. Like you're losing your members because the abuse isn't being pulled out. The the people doing the abuse are not being held accountable. And I'll say I've said it again so many times to on in different platforms to different people. You want the change, you want it to be different. You want the abuse to stop. It stops inside the church. Like it starts, it's it starts with the people inside the church. The people inside the church need to stand up to it and say, hey, I'm reporting you. That's how the change is gonna, because we can do all the change we want on the outside, and we can write the books, and we can do the podcast, and we can do the the TikTok things, and we can we can do all, and those things are all great. But is it but the abuse is still going on? So it's kind of one of those books where it's like you're gonna, it's a wake-up call to to Christians at large. Like, wake up, this is happening in your backyard. And it's not just the male pastors doing the abusing, it's female pastors too. I I said what I said. I literally just got a message from a female pastor who is supposed to be someone like my mother to me, withdrawing her support from me because this book is not leading people to God. Yeah, this is not one of those books. There's you are not going to find scriptures in this book. There's no, I want to make that loud and clear. This is not a book that is going to save your soul, that's going to bring you closer to Jesus. In fact, if anything, draw you further, uh further apart. But I'm just being honest because it's not one of those feel-good books. It's going to, there's going to be things in there that you're going to read that are like, oh, I can't believe I just read this. There's things in there that I read. And I'm like, did I really just write that? I did it because there's somebody, there's a child that is going through exactly what I went through. A child is gonna see that book and pick that book up because they're gonna see the Barbie doll and they're gonna think, oh, and they're gonna read this book. And they're like, oh crap, if Heather got out, I can get out. That it's it's for anybody 13 or older. So there's gonna be a kid, there's going to be a teenager in a church, in a youth group, in a youth camp that's going to see this book or somebody's gonna have it, and they're like, Oh, I need to get out of here too. There's a page at the back of the book with my contact information. Email everything. Like you can reach out to me because people are gonna start reaching out. So this book is either going to wake you up to the point where you're gonna want to go heal your own stuff, you're I'm gonna receive the repercussions for it. And I already have. So that's uh sorry, I'm not the best sugar coach.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:10

Yeah, no, I'm glad that you were very candid about that and appreciate that for those listening that are interested in the book. I mean, there's your there's your trigger warning, guys, but definitely um get her book, go support Heather and Heather, where can people find you on socials?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:28

So I am on obviously I'm on the TikTok, I am on Instagram, I am on some other social media platforms, Clubhouse and Chatter. You have to download the app to find me to get to me, though, or you can reach out to me via email.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:42

Okay, so and then they would find you under just Heather Ford or Heather Ford or Religious Cult Survivor 1006. Okay, gotcha. Well, Heather, thank you so much for telling your story and spending this time with us. We really appreciate you and wish you the best with your book and everything else you've got coming up. So I know, right? Yeah, it's exciting. Yes, you should totally set that up. Then we can like all meet up. That'd be cool. I I need some connections though. Anyone that has connections, reach out to Heather. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for coming on today, Heather. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to this episode and for holding space for Heather's story. It takes tremendous courage to speak openly about abuse, trauma, and loss, especially when those experiences are tied to systems and communities that were supposed to provide safety and faith. Heather's willingness to share her story not only is an act of healing for herself, but it also brings awareness to others who may still be struggling in silence. If Heather's story resonated with you, her memoir dives even deeper into her journey. From growing up in the Pentecostal cult to finding the strength to reclaim her life and her voice. I'll include information in the show notes about her book where you can learn more about her work. And as always, if today's conversation brought up difficult feelings for you, please remember you're not alone and support is available. Thank you so much for being here, for listening, and for continuing to support conversations like this one. Before we close out, I just want to share a quick reminder. The stories told on this podcast are personal experiences and perspectives. They're shared to create awareness and connection, not as medical, legal, or mental health advice. Some of the conversations here focus on abuse, trauma, and other heavy topics. So please take care of yourself while listening. It's always okay to pause, skip an episode, or step away if you need to. And if anything we talked about brings something up to you, we encourage you to reach out to a trusted professional or support resource. You don't have to carry any of this alone. Thank you for listening.