Was the Zodiac Hidden in the Bible?

Was the Zodiac Hidden in the Bible? Gilgamesh, Jesus, Paul, and Suppressed Star Knowledge (Holier Podcast)

On the Unholier podcast, the host interviews Indy, and author and researcher about alleged links between the Bible, the Zodiac, ancient texts like the Epic of Gilgamesh, and historical sources such as Josephus, arguing that biblical language and symbols (e.g., “Mazzaroth,” the star of the wise men, Lamb of God, fisher of men, the man with the water pitcher, the “bow” in Noah’s story, and the four horsemen) reflect astrological/astronomical “coding” tied to shifting ages and priestly power. They discuss why churches and seminaries may not teach this material, how Israelite worship included multiple gods and zodiac-related motifs, and how Christian literalism can reinterpret inconvenient details. The guest also connects laying on of hands to energy healing, critiques traditional images of Jesus, and presents full preterism (Revelation and end-times fulfilled in the first century) as a healthier framework for deconstruction, while promoting the guest’s Amazon book on these ideas. #god #BIBLE # #zodiac

https://a.co/d/00qfH2dp

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Okay. Okay. All right. So now I'm just gonna move and all this gets edited out. Um so I'm just gonna move my screen because I don't feel like looking at myself all the time.

SPEAKER_06 0:15

I don't need to send you a photo. I should have sent you a photo to put on your desk.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

It's okay. It's okay. Send me a photo after this, and then cause so I can put that so all I see is a black box and then your name. So what I'd like to do is whatever photo you want, we'll just have that overlaid on that box.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

If that makes sense. So it can be the book cover, it can be your profile picture that you have on social media.

SPEAKER_06 0:44

I think the book cover is the way to go, probably.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yeah, it can totally be that. Um so another question that I have for you, and this is just off record, but um even though we are recording, but it's fine, um, it'll all be edited out. But when we get to the part at the end where I ask, because I'm obviously gonna talk about the book, um where can people find the book?

SPEAKER_06 1:09

Uh the link is in my bio and it's on Amazon.

unknown 1:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Okay. Okay, perfect. Okay, that's gonna be perfect. And then do you want me to say where can people find you?

SPEAKER_06 1:22

Not necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

That's why I have a you know, I use the pin name and you know, no so you don't want you don't want the listeners to find you on social media.

SPEAKER_06 1:31

No, I mean they I don't mind if they come to TikTok and follow Indy. That's what I meant.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

I didn't want to go to my address and come to your door.

SPEAKER_06 1:39

No, I'm saying I thought you meant emails. Oh no, I don't yeah, no, no, no. They can come to TikTok, no problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Okay. So we'll just I will when we start like wrapping up the episode, I'll just say, you know, your your book is um incredible, full of information. Um, people are gonna want to get their hands on it, where can they find it? And also where can they find you on social media and then whatever you're comfortable sharing at that point. I also I didn't have chat GPT do all of the questions. I wrote a whole bunch of notes down yesterday when we you and I were talking. So I'm gonna kind of go off both things.

SPEAKER_06 2:23

Um because I'm gonna have chat GPT do my answers.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Hey, I'm not okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Okay, oh, I forgot to tell you this. Okay, so I used to do the intros while people were on Zoom with me, and then I had so many pineapples that David was like, girl. Like, maybe just record your intro after, and that has so many hilarious. Yeah, so that's what I do now. I do I just do the intro after we get off the and I do a separate intro and a separate outro. So that intro is going to introduce you. I'm gonna give like a little like narrative about what the podcast episode's about, and then it's literally just gonna go into us having this conversation, it's gonna go into um the first question that I'm gonna ask you. So that's where I'm gonna start. Okay. All right. Okay. Um, all right. So, like I said, if the zodiac is actually embedded in the Bible, why has it been hidden or ignored for so long?

SPEAKER_06 3:52

Good question. It's actually it's actually mentioned in the Bible. Um Maseroth is the word, and I of course am not prepared with the chapter and verse, but if we looked up the word, it is in the Bible, and that is the mention of the zodiac. And there's a lot of I don't know who necessarily on purpose hid it, uh, except for the fact that we are definitely talking about at least two different tribes of people all throughout the entire story. Where one of them is, you know, I mean, there's a lot of difference between them, but they're constantly arguing, they're battling their brothers, brothers in the same tribe are breaking up and taking people over there. You know, we have Jacob and Esau probably, they don't believe the same at the end of the day, you know, it just keeps happening. Um, so one of the groups is certainly against anything pagan, but clearly the Israelites definitely were uh not only aware, but into worshiping several other gods. Um and a lot of what they're doing and worshiping is zodiac stuff. So one group is saying, no, no, we don't worship cows, let's say. Uh we only follow Yahweh or whatever the argument is. So I think it's you know, a s a group is saying stay away from it, and we only do this, but it's not completely out of the Bible. Um and then we have editors and uh councils and things that want to give church power and make people believe other stuff and not look at the sky and uh and and know their secrets, because this is about uh like a zodiac priest cult, pretty much. That's what they did. That was their secret trick is you know, the king had a zodiac priest, and he would tell him when to plant his crops and when a flood was coming, and when uh you know, seasons or if a meteor happened, what sign, what happened shortly after, or you know, there's this they were always looking at this guy.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah, and it's always interesting to me, like why isn't it taught? Like, what is the like not even necessarily like what I think when I hear the word zodiac, I my mind automatically goes to, and again, this is just because of my upbringing in a pastor's home and in it in in the independent fundamental Baptist church movement, is when I hear the word zodiac, my mind automatically goes to new age, demonic, horoscope, don't touch it, don't go near it, it's bad, all negative things, right? Um but uh I think there's a misconception of that. And I think that like you and I talked yesterday over the phone, where we talked about just even like the star that led the wise men to Jesus. And my dad would always preach that that was an angel. Well, it didn't say it was an angel, it said it was a star. And in the Bible, where it says angel, it says angel, it doesn't say star. Now, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I am fully able to admit if I'm wrong about something, but um you know, I understand it to be a star. And uh my dad would say, Well, it says the star stood over where the child was. Okay, I mean, you I guess you could argue that point, but would always I think it was a constellation, actually.

SPEAKER_06 7:40

When that constellation rose in the vernal equinox or the zodiac shift, that was their sign that a king would be born. And I think Babylon has a prophecy about the star that uh one of the descendants of Abraham would come and defeat their king or something. So watch for this sign, you know. Uh I don't think it's an angel or a traveling floating star that magically stops or rests, you know what I mean? There's yeah, obviously some coding going on here, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Right, right, exactly. And so I think it's like, you know, it's they want to have their cake and eat it too, right? They want to say, well, it says star, but it actually means angel. Um, but then they say sometimes they'll say, you have to take the Bible literally, you have to take it literally.

SPEAKER_06 8:30

And I'm I saw the funniest TikTok. I'm gonna show it to you later, but it was this girl, she's ex-Mormon, and she's saying how people do exactly that. They're like, Let me show you what the Book of Mormon says. It says, prophets cannot deceive you, but they are human, and sometimes they are wrong. Now you might think this means they can't deceive you. And she goes on, like, it doesn't mean what it says. You have to read it different than it's written. Let me over-explain that. Let me yeah, uh let me apologetic that for you. Uh and it means, and yeah, it's crazy. But they do it even in the Bible. There's groups in the Bible and people and little, and they don't make a big deal out of the story, but it is in there where they do conjuring. They go to visit a psychic medium who talks to dead people, and actually they're you know bringing people back from the dead, and they're and you know, you can call it the laying on of hands, but it's actually Reiki because that's energy healing, and that would have been what Jesus was into because he would have been more Zoroastrian, uh, more of a Babylonian Jew type. Uh with yeah, and um so again, it's like one group in the Bible. We've chose to attach ourselves to the Israelites as presented as the victims chased out of Egypt, and we decided that we are them too. And and it kind of helps our focus not look at the other the all the other groups being talked about, the Canaanites, the Philistines, the you know, all of them. Uh, what did they believe? What were they worshiping? And but in our own Bible, they are definitely the Israelites got in trouble for making cakes to the Queen of Heaven. They were worshiping the Queen of Heaven. As soon as they get out of Egypt, they build a golden cow. They're worshiping the bull. They're Moses was fighting bull worshipers. Uh he destroyed several of them that day, I think. Um uh Joseph and his brothers, when they come into Egypt, he tells his brothers, don't tell the Pharaoh that we work with sheep, that we are shepherds. Tell him that we have worked with cattle, us and uh and our fathers.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

And there's a reason for that, you think?

SPEAKER_06 10:58

So I think the reason is not because Egypt has a problem with shepherds, they had their own shepherds. They definitely did not have an adversion to anything like that. So I think it's zodiac speak. I think Joseph is telling his brothers to tell Pharaoh that we are worshiping the bull, not you know, we're not we're not uh shepherds, sheep worshippers, which comes in right after the bull worship. Uh and that's Aries, like you. Uh so uh so he's telling them at that time in the what they don't tell us in the Bible, at that time the worship was probably changing because the zodiac changed. And that's what they do. That's why later on you have the lamb of God and the fissure of men, and uh the man carrying a pitcher of water, these are all zodiac speak.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Yeah, and explain that. So, lamb of God that would be Ares, right? Yep, and then you have the Fisher of Men is Pisces.

SPEAKER_06 12:02

So if we start, can I start back in the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Absolutely. Yep, you got it.

SPEAKER_06 12:07

The because the way that it started unfolding for me clearly was by not learning the epic of Gilgamesh, but learning about it. Um, it's the old thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

I am not very familiar with that story because we were never taught it.

SPEAKER_06 12:26

It was no, you wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

We were never taught it.

SPEAKER_06 12:29

Babylonian, it's it's it's it has nothing to do with you know, however, it happened before the Bible, and that's what they want you to ignore. So then Adam and Eve can't be the first people, and uh it kind of wrecks their story if you think something was written earlier than in the beginning, you know. Um so with the epic of Gilgamesh, the story that I I have read the epic, I've glossed it, let's say. Um, I've looked through it on purpose for certain things, and what it turns out to be is what it says it is, is it's a story about Gilgamesh, the king, chasing the bull of heaven. And he needs to kill or slay this bull. It's bull slaying. And uh there's a lot of adventures and things that they go through. There's seven Pleiades or uh whom I forget the name, whom Bobby or Herm, I forget what they're called, but it's seven of seven of them are around the neck of the bull, and he's gotta fight with them and do things. And anyway, and it's a weird long story. There's all kinds of things that go on. I can explain more of them, but we're not doing the whole epic. But the idea is what I found out is, and some people know this, but not many, uh, that the story is actually about the constellations, and it's Orion chasing Taurus as it falls, and the next constellation comes in. So when the bull of heaven falls, and and then you can see that reflected in Egypt. There would have been a bunch of bull and cow and apus bulls, and the uh oh my god, I can't remember what they call them right now. They have big Taurus uh burials and um uh all of that is falling away now. So those statues get removed, and all of a sudden you see either ram or sheep or goat statues around uh coming in because that's how they worship with the changing of what was happening in the sky. So they went from bull worship, which today, and then it also sometimes caused a civil war because not everybody got it, and not everybody was this, you know, they were different religions and different beliefs. And when you've been worshiping the cow, and so did your ancestors and their ancestors and their ancestors, when someone comes along and tells you you can't do that anymore, to this day there are still people that will starve to death before they eat the cows sitting next to them because it's considered holy, it's a god, right? So sacred is the word, right? Uh so uh and and that comes from that.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Um, and that's very interesting to me. I think that it should beg the question, why hasn't the school system or churches taught uh you know astronomy and even astrology? Like why why has this been suppressed from mainstream society? I mean, if I asked any of my friends, I mean, I think you know, most people would be like, oh, there's the Big Dipper, and there's the Little Dipper, and there's you know, Polaris, and there's Orion's belt, you could maybe point those out, but in general, to be able to read the sky like they used to way back in the day for thousands of years, people aren't anymore.

SPEAKER_06 16:12

You know, no, well, they did they didn't have the internet, they had nothing better to do than stare at the sky and make mud bricks, you know. So, what are they gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Well, why was this knowledge suppressed?

SPEAKER_06 16:24

Um, right. So I think at this point, I don't feel like my pastor or your pastor or anybody was being purposely deceitful and hiding what he knew and you don't, you know. Uh I I'm not entirely sure what the Pope even knows. Uh if he would have known in Chicago what he what they tell him when he gets there, or you know, it's I don't know what's divulged up high, but I somewhere along the line, they're not teaching it like in theology seminary, right? Like, so I'm pretty sure Justin went to some kind of schools. Theology did he did Justin?

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Justin, Justin, okay, so you're talking about Justin from the deconstruction zone. If anyone um is wondering, but um and I had Justin on to talk about the the history of the King James Bible um a few episodes prior to this one. If you're listening, go check that one out because it was really interesting. But yeah, Justin, it he went to um he's got he's got several different degrees, yes. He went to a seminary and all of that. So right.

SPEAKER_06 17:33

And so you would have to ask him, what are they actually shoveling in those places these days? But what I've seen by looking at some different Yale courses or you know, looking up what are they teaching in these institutes of higher education that are theological, you know, Harvard was these are supposed to be teaching uh the the priesthood, actually. But um at this point, I think they've talked themselves into so many circles that they're talking themselves out of what they once knew. So ask Justin if they're teaching anything about the zodiac in any of this theology seminary, except just not to look at it. Um but I think like my priests, if not my priest or my pastor would not have known if I went to him today and said, Did you know that that's what Joseph was saying to his brother? He would, I don't think they know. So it's not being passed down. So um I don't feel like it's being taught widely. So it's then it's not gonna filter into the churches because it's not in the seminaries, and then it's you know, who does know and where does the knowledge stop? Is it a I don't know, is it a Freemason thing? They they don't know. In fact, let me tell you this 99% of the people at your local lodge don't know what they're doing at all, as far as how far back this goes and what ser what the ceremonies mean really, and uh but it's um I I all I can say is it had to be some kind of power pull somewhere along the line. You not knowing this gave me more power. Uh yeah. So like did NASA want to be the only ones looking at the sky? And so we're not allowed to, you know. I mean, I don't know exactly when I mean that's where my brain goes. It's like yeah, we're not even allowed where I can't build a rocket ship and go browse around if I want, you know, only they can. They yeah, they marketed it. So how far back does it go um to where they said we don't do that? And again, it's because we might be following the wrong tribe. In fact, if we looked at some pagan texts or other religions, we very well would be reading stars and signs and you know, different things.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

And again, when they when when they've demonized it though, and made it like, oh, you shouldn't be reading the stars, that's demonic. I mean, I know I heard that growing up. The zodiac is demonic. Why would you do why would you even mess with a horoscope? Why would you even look at astrology? Why would you even be interested in astronomy? You know, um, those things were suppressed.

SPEAKER_06 20:08

I think it probably comes from Yahweh, actually, because here we have this usurper god in a pantheon of other gods. He's not the only god, he's not the supreme god, he's not the god of all gods, he's not the creator god, he's not, you know, um, and we can see this in Deuteronomy when a bigger god gives Yahweh his portion, and his portion is Israel. And from that point on, Yahweh starts absorbing the attributes of the other gods and the other deities and the other storm and uh uh whatever whatever attributes they have, they're his all of a sudden. He even had a wife, she goes away. Now he's male and female, you know, or there is no male and female. Uh you know, so uh he I he probably did a lot of the don't look up, look, you know, we don't read the stars, we go to the one who created them type of vibes. Um I can't think of a place where I could nail that down in the Bible, but probably somewhere in there it was telling them, you know, and so because we follow that, we're Israelites, we you know, we act like we I don't know how we got attached, you know, 2,000 years later, and all of a sudden I was in the Exodus and everything's about I'm an Israelite, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Yeah, they're there I can tell you what my uh theory is on that. So because they because Israel is quote God's chosen people, right? And then when a person gets you know saved or born again, they become a child of God, and so then they become part of that lineage, that family. And so they just consider themselves like adopted Jews, like legitimately. That's what they think. I've been adopted into this Jew. Jewish family, and now I'm a Jew. They're not most of them that I know aren't practicing Jews, but they will come hell or high water. It doesn't matter what Israel can do or does, they are going to support it and back 100%.

SPEAKER_05 22:16

We're doing it today.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Israel could start sacrificing children, and they would be like, there must be a good reason. It's fine.

SPEAKER_05 22:27

We're gonna think they did.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

People think they started already, and they're like what you're saying is is the whole like giving Israel carte blanche to do whatever, it almost makes me think that Israel slash the Jews had something to do with all of this.

SPEAKER_06 22:48

Well, right. So by design, they are the victims, they are God's chosen people, they are the group that the mean pharaoh chased out of Egypt, and they were slaves there, and then the 40 years of wandering, and then trying to just land somewhere, and then just oh my god, victimized again, and then victimized again, and then they couldn't take all the land, and then they, you know, they couldn't always obey God, and there wasn't barely two good kings amongst them uh that God was pleased with. Um so you know, they've always been the victim that God will bring back and and save and give and do and you know restore.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

But there's that parallel too that Christians use that you're speaking a parallel, right? Everything that you're saying, the Jews screw up, God gives them a way to come back, and you know, then the Jews screw up again and got, you know, it's back and forth. It's just like Christianity, you know, we screw up every day, and God just accepts us, you know, and He loves us and forgives us. It's the same thing. It's like it's the it's like the No, you're a dirty silver.

SPEAKER_06 23:52

I've heard your mouth. You're a sinner. I'm just right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

But yeah, sometimes I do have a little bit of a trucker mouth. Um sometimes I get worked up about things. I'm telling you. No, it's me.

SPEAKER_06 24:03

I'm working hard to not use all my efforts today.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Um you know what? I will say this, okay? So I have a friend who told me that uh one of her relatives, who happens to be an older person, listens to the podcast. This is shocking to me because I when I picture the listeners, I think of a certain demographic. It is not that demographic. But I was very pleased to find this out because I'm like, this is this is amazing. I have like a wide range of audience and I love that. This person was offended that I used some expletives in a certain episode. So I have since and moving forward, bleeped out the expletives.

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Oh goodness, okay, all right, accommodating.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

You wanna say whatever you want to say, Indy. If you want to be totally unfiltered, I will just bleep it out. It's no way.

SPEAKER_06 25:04

Can we hear the bleep though? Is it a noise, an audible?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Is it actual audio, audio beep, yes? Yes, okay. Yes, I'm gonna throw some out there. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:15

Now, what you just said, how accommodating and graceful you were in that situation, is kind of the the line in the sand where I'm at now, personally. Um as part of my own deconstruction, I've decided that I am not tiptoeing around people who are trying to give me rules and um uh uh you know how to speak and what exactly the profanity is and what exactly using the Lord's name in vain is.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Uh that's a whole nother subject right now.

SPEAKER_06 25:48

For real, like the words I use today weren't around, so they're not even on the list of things I can't say. But uh but uh it I've come to the point where I'm not like uh personally I I would have said someone said I didn't like you saying that, you know. Um because I've been behavior modified my whole life because of that religion, and and I'm all done now. The second half is gonna be better, and it's going to be up to me what I say and how I dress. And you know, unfortunately, I'm not I'm not I'm a little old now to dress how I wanted to dress when they wouldn't let me dress that way, but I mean you still can. I I wish purity culture had had not uh hit me so hard, but yeah, uh yeah, so uh that it was nice of you to do that, but and you know, you don't want to be a foul mouth, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Hey, you know what? They actually say that people who do say the F-word are a little bit more intelligent.

SPEAKER_06 26:53

There's I know that it lowers my blood pressure.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Studies have been done, so it's you know, they talked.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

Do they think that Jesus was hanging around with a bunch of fishermen and sacchari? You know what sacchari are? No, they're knife-wielding stabbers that go into crowds and stab people with little knives very quickly. Uh they these are his friends. This is you know, Judas is a sacari. They're so uh fishermen and sacari and all the outcasts, and this is who Jesus you think they were talking pleasantly to each other? Even Paul says, I wish who was ever troubling you of circumcision would cut the whole thing off. So he's basically saying, cut your peace off without saying it, but they talked harshly, they spoke harshly to each other.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Sure. Yeah, yeah. You know, I this is kind of on the subject, off the subject, but you know, we have this vision that has been handed to us of what Jesus looked like, right? So you picture this white guy with blue eyes and long brown hair and a beard. And I just think to myself, I know this is where my mind goes. They didn't have a dentist back then, you guys. He probably had like most of his teeth were probably gone. Um uh I he didn't have blue eyes, he would have had brown skin. Uh like I just like why are we painting this false picture of what the reality was? I mean, for God's sakes, for George Washington had wooden teeth because they didn't have dentistry back 250 years ago. You think they had it back, you know, 2000 years ago? I just I think of just the weirdest things when it comes to stuff like that. But I'm just like this image that uh has been portrayed. If you were to see Jesus, if you were to transport yourself 2,000 years back, everyone probably had BO, but they probably all stunk. They didn't have, you know, wash machines, they were washing their stuff in the same river that their animals were, you know, bathing in and hanging out in and pooping and peeing in. You know what I'm saying? Like there is not an accurate, like people, I don't think people have even thought about that. Maybe they have, maybe they're just as twisted as well.

SPEAKER_06 29:20

Well, what I can tell you I can tell you I've never really seriously thought about their teeth as much as I just did.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

I mean, have you ever walked up to somebody who had really bad breath and like half their teeth are missing? The other ones that they have that the one or two teeth they have are brown, um and they're about to fall out. I'm just this is what I picture. And I'm like, we have he would probably be not somebody that y'all would be walking up to and wanting to be like, heal me, do this, do that. You know what I'm saying? Like he probably was like a monk type of person, like somebody that just wasn't attractive. We've put, we've made him into this, like you know, uh, what's the guy that used to be on highway to heaven? Um, Michael Landon, like to look like a Michael Landon character.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

That's Jesus. That's Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Or or even the guy that they have portraying him on the chosen, he's a good looking guy. I just don't think that it's accurate. And I think that when when when you step back and just take like like you're in school and your teacher, this was so satisfying to me. When the teacher would take the the take re erase the chalkboard with the chalk with the with the eraser, and just everything would get nice and clean, and then she would wash it. Remember when it would be washed take your paradigm of what you think Jesus looked like, smelled like, his breath, all of that, and just take it and throw it right out the window because I guarantee you it was quite the opposite. And the people he was hanging around, they're gonna be right there, like the same kind of caliber. It's like the caliber of people he was hanging out with were a rough crowd. That's what I'm trying to say. It wasn't, and I think that is one of the reasons why he was calling out these holier than thou, again, those people, the Sadducees, the Pharisees, he was calling them out constantly because they had propped themselves way up here on this pedestal, and and he was calling them out. You're the vipers, you're the ones with the um white-ed sepulchres, you know, you're you're the ones, you know, it's the people who are real, but again, and I I'm going on this like little rabbit trail, but I feel like you and I could talk about that just because I've never told anyone that other than I think maybe David and my husband, but it's like this picture that's been painted of him, I don't think is accurate at all.

SPEAKER_06 32:03

I mean, okay, well, I don't feel like the picture would be too far off. I mean, so let's picture some okay, do we want to call him a Jew or a Babylonian Jew or maybe up in Syria or you know, wherever his people were when he was born and came into Judea? And what uh for example, today, think of Jews that you know today, like Scarlet Johansson or Joaquin Phoenix, or uh I don't know a lot of them. I can't think.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Uh yeah, but I don't even think of those people as like Jonah Hill.

SPEAKER_05 32:41

Is he Jewish?

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Like I'm thinking of people that are actually from the homeland, right? They're there, they're they live there, they have um, you know, they're in that region and their families always.

SPEAKER_06 32:57

Yeah, so I'm not saying that's a picture of Jesus, you know, is it Caesar Caesar Borgia or you know, which artist was doing it that day? There are depictions of him being white before the image of Caesar Borgia, uh, but uh he could have been pale Syrian looking, um, you know, uh I mean I would like to just say Google what do Jews look like or what does it mean? But it's almost like where they have blue eyes, they can be pale, they can be, you know, uh they can have all the things. Where did the depiction come from? Originally, uh did they write down what he looked like and it got passed on through the generations? Probably not. Uh did they have lineage that they knew about and could trace it back? Did Jesus have kids? We, you know, I mean, uh, you know. Um there's a whole line of Mary being a redheaded, you know, uh, she's a pale ginger-looking person. That's probably not too far off. Um I mean, these days, I guess it's hard to tell. They're trying to make Cleopatra black. So we can blackwash, whitewash, brownwash anything we want these days. I don't know where the original description from who and what's who drew him first. I would have to look that up.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Um, it probably was like Leonardo da Vinci or Michelangelo or somebody back in the day that had, you know, depicted what they thought and maybe based on a king or a prince or something in that day, so that they could kind of like, you know, canonize the person in power at the time to make them think, well, yeah, they're just like Jesus, or this is what I picture them being like um the king that we have or the prince that we have.

SPEAKER_06 34:51

I'm like the opinion that they know his lineage, that they know that he was married and that he did have children, and that they could trace as far back or forward as they want. And the names that we're looking for in the histories are not going to be found because Jesus Christ is not a name, it's a title. You're not gonna find Jesus Christ in any outside writings because only the Bible calls him that.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Um that's an interesting rabbit trail we could go down too. I think that no matter what color he really was, he probably had bad dental hygiene. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

I never thought about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

This is what this is what I think about.

SPEAKER_06 35:36

I mean, I don't I have thought about their feet and the sandals and how dirty and like and the VO, they all stunk.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:44

Well, I mean, I they had remedies, they had ointments and aloes and oils and perfumes, and that's what the incense and perfumes and gard oils were for. Is uh the rich people smelled good at least.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Sure, right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, thank god I wasn't back then. I mean, yeah, I am serious about dental hygiene. It's just you know, it's very important.

SPEAKER_05 36:09

Um it is important.

SPEAKER_06 36:12

I don't even know how we got on that, but I just thought we want to know if Jesus why does Jesus have teeth in all the drawings is now a good question. Does he? He's not really smiling, is he? Is he smiling in those pictures?

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Look at all these pictures from even back in like the 1800s, early 1900s, where all these people, it's black and white pictures, nobody's smiling. And I remember asking, it was either my mom or my grandmother, and it was kind of like, Well, duh, they didn't have teeth. They didn't smile because they didn't have teeth, or their teeth were rotted, they were bad, they didn't have the dentist and the hygiene that we do now. And I'm just like, Oh my gosh, well, that's where my mind goes, guys. Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm not being blasphemous or whatever, I'm just saying I think about this stuff, and I think then I think my mind goes to where we just talked about like, well, who created this image of him that we all literally uh think that he looks like this image, and I don't think it's accurate.

SPEAKER_06 37:16

I'm just saying, well, okay, but I'm just saying in those images, I don't think his teeth are showing, and so we don't know if he's not smiling because he is toothless. It might be that he is toothless, but still good looking with long and flowing brown hair.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

As long as he doesn't smile, right? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 37:38

Oh he probably would have had long hair if he was part of the Nazarene. He's called the Nazarene, yeah, and he's called called a Galilean. Yeah, uh, these people would have taken Nazarite vows, um, which partly includes not cutting your hair. So, you know, who knows?

SPEAKER_02 37:59

That that's another thing, too. Just like as a side note, is like when I grew up in the IFB, the boys had to have and men have they they're not they're not allowed to have long hair. You're not allowed to have it.

SPEAKER_06 38:11

Yeah, well, that's from Paul. Paul thinks a boy should have short hair, short hair, and then no beard.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Why?

SPEAKER_06 38:18

Because those are barbarians. Barbarians had beards and long hair. The word barbarian means bearded, right? So Paul and Jesus are the opposite religion, like I noticed the guy saying in your last episode.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

But but you should, I don't know if you had a chance to look at the comments from the reels that I did on those, but oh my gosh, it is people will just they'll just go nuts if you say anything about the apostle Paul. They go nuts. They're more passionate and angry about us suggesting that Paul was another gospel than they are about anything that has been said about Jesus. Nothing, like it's not even comparable.

SPEAKER_06 39:00

It's like it's really hard to find out that you're wrong and admit it or even acknowledge or look into it at all uh once you have a foundation of sorts. Uh it to look is scary, first of all. And then to fall or to have the rug ripped out from under you. Like it's it can cause some anger and lashing out, and they don't want to think that that could ever happen to them, which is partly why they have their mantra of if you're not you know, you're if you can leave us, you were never one of us, or um, you know, you want to leave because you want to sin, or you know, like there's they have to make sure that they don't have a thought process that you just learned something that made you think twice, and you know, they have to think is something bad or you're evil, or uh your thoughts are, you know, they'll pray for you because clearly you're off, you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Um whatever they have to do or say to make themselves feel better, it's can't happen to them, and I think it makes them angry.

SPEAKER_06 39:59

In fact, that I see that a lot in the deconstruction community of and it actually bugs me so much. I know a couple of these guys, and I say guys because I see it more in the men than I do the women, like they're a little more pissed off that this happened to them. Um so they deconstruct, and then their mission is to go back and bash Christians and you know, go pick out videos and mock how stupid they are and what liars they are, and you'll defend anything and you'll say this. I can't believe you actually believe that. And you're you know, this and that. All of it is, I can't believe you this. And I and when I'm hearing them, a lot of these guys I met when they were still Bible-believing Yahwists. Like they were Christians when I met them. They have recently deconstructed in the past four years, maybe five. And now they're looking back, telling people how stupid they were for believing what they believed. Just a minute ago, like yesterday. I was in the room when some of them stopped believing. And did I say, Oh my god, you are so stupid for believing that? Oh my god, that's not how I bought them out. I didn't go, oh my god, how could you think that your marriage is any good when or you know, um I I don't look back to bash. I actually have grace and compassion for the people who are still believing because I am not that far out myself. I was a believer more of my life than I wasn't. So uh if someone like me had come along and told me some things, I had every catchphrase necessary to build a wall around myself to where they were wrong, I was right, the Bible is true, um, they left because A, B, or C, and we'll just go pray for them and good luck out in the world, you know. Um it it has to so I think that anger, and that's why they fight in the comments. I think I'm the one that actually made the comments about Paul and Jesus in that stream on your video. Uh they they just can't take it. So they have to fight it to the death. It whether it makes sense or is logical or anything, you know. At that point, they're not even thinking about it anymore. They know what they're supposed to say and they say it.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's that brainwashing. It's they're gonna listen to whatever their pastor's telling them, whatever they were taught, whatever their, you know, parents, grandparents, aunt, uncle, whatever, however they were raised, they would just wanna keep that going because that would just be like the cognitive dissidence would be too hard for them to handle, a lot of them, I think. And then again, then once you once you start deconstructing, a lot of people have kind of um existential crisis where you're just like, now what? Like what do I what do I believe, you know? And I find well that's a scary place.

SPEAKER_06 42:52

That's a scary place. Yeah, that's where most people jump into another cult.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Right. You can go, and I have said this, I'm so glad you brought this up. I have said that you can go from one cult to another one, and I've seen it happen.

SPEAKER_06 43:08

That's most common. That is the most common thing to happen.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

And so I think that when you have a person that's in that's going into deconstruction, they're starting to question the narrative that they've been told. What is the best advice you could give somebody so that they can prevent that pendulum swinging all the way over to the other side? Where I see so many people who once were Christians and really dogmatic Christians go all the way to the other side and now they're like, there is no God, there is no afterlife, there is no nothing.

SPEAKER_06 43:45

Right. So I think the reason a lot of them jump into another cult is because that, or let's call it another religion or belief system, uh, even the new age, is because it's too hard to completely admit the zero god. Or complete nihilism or atheism or um that's just silly. Like, you know, even if I'm not going to be a Christian, I certainly believe this ground, you know, this whatever it is, that there is a God that, you know, he's at least presented partly uh and because the three major four, if you call Mormonism, uh Judaism and Islam, they all have a safe place to land because at the core they're related. They're Abrahamic, they start in the gardens, they have you know same ideas parts of the way through. Um, some of the ideas are taken straight from the other ideas. You know, the later religions went to the earlier ones and uh formed theirs, and uh so it's a safe and easy place to jump out of one into another. That's why a great deal of people leave Christianity and join Islam or what have you. Um jumping out completely of everything with now no belief system starting from ground zero, plus they're handed it at birth. You know, most people didn't most people, I'm using big sweeping statements, but sure in my life and my knowledge and the people I knew, they were born into the religion of their parents. So it wasn't like they were seeking something and chose to believe this, or and like you said, grandma said this, mom said this, dad said this, and it's uh, you know, faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing, and but so does brainwashing and indoctrination, you know. So that is true. Uh you're if you hear it enough and it comes flying out of your mouth when you talk, and you know, it's because you've been hearing and hearing and hearing. And so, like, my advice to people is before you jump into something else, because you probably didn't get the chance last time, ask all the questions first and do some research first. And do instead of um like theological studies, do some church history, like uh some actual how did this start? Who was that person? How did he get started? What is what is his claim to being who have you, whichever prophet. Yeah. Um this time, if you jumped out of something and into something else, it's your fault if you get stuck in another cult that's just as ridiculous, with just as many claims that are just as old and out of date, and which would lead me into preterism, where if anything, I would tell people, you can believe the Bible. I believe the Bible is true. I believe it happened, I believe they are historical stories, I believe we have proven that with archaeology, and I mean they found Jericho, they found burials, they found all the things, you know, not all the things, but they found things were not allowed to dig in a lot of places where they would find more things. Uh so um having all this information and and then asking, why do I believe this part or that part? I think it's easier now to examine and think before you jump into another belief system. But the problem is there's always someone there waiting to catch you. Like there's always someone like, oh, I'm so sorry the church hurt you. Why don't you come to this meeting, you know? Or oh, well, at my church we do this, or you know, what have you. So it's it's a big mind control thing. Um, I think religion was handed to us as a control thing even in the beginning. You know, the kings and the pharaohs could control the masses and do whatever they wanted while everybody else was bowing and giving Caesar what is Caesar's, and well, you know, it's so uh at this point I am of the cult of nothing. Like, I am not joining another group, club, church, belief system. I'm not going to a meeting, I'm not going to a you know, I I could go to a study, but I'm not joining after, and I'm not one of us, and I'm not a community of even in the deconstruction. I'm not part of the deconstruction community. I am someone who has deconstructed. I'm my own person. What you I don't always believe what you believe, even here, you know. Uh so I think I'm way over or not answering your question. What was that?

SPEAKER_02 48:24

No, you are, you are. Um, so I think too, for me, I I feel like, you know, deconstruction for me has been a 20-year journey. And I'm still there's still questions that I have, there's still things that I am finding out, there's still things that I'm wondering and you know, researching and talking to people about. And I don't know that I'll ever arrive at exactly the the answer, but I think what I I've come to the conclusion too is that I do not believe that um the god of the Bible is the god that is actually the one that exists in in in reality. I think that um the god in the Bible is a little bit of a tyrant, um, likes war.

SPEAKER_06 49:31

Um and which God of the Bible? By the time you get to like Yeah, I mean there's five of them before the end of Deuteronomy.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

The way, yeah, the way the way that I was raised, okay, and this is why I say my problem is is they say, or the Bible says, that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Well, if Jesus is God and God is Jesus, and I've said this on multiple episodes, then that guy in the old testament is a totally different person than the guy in the new testament. The personality is different, all of the things it's like the message, even is different. So you can't make the statement that Jesus or God is the same yesterday, today, forever, because things have changed and he has changed. And there's been times where even the God of the Old Testament changed his mind, where he regretted making humanity and he started over and used a flood to do so. I mean, there's so many things, there's so many examples, even just that, you know, um Paul, uh, my guest that was on the other um episode had brought out. Justin has brought out different, you know, contradictions in in the Bible. It's like that that is not the God that I believe is the true God. I think that uh the God of the universe is all-knowing, all powerful, all-loving. And I think Paul, my guest that I had on, he said it very very eloquently. I'm not an eloquent person, so I'm probably gonna butcher this. But essentially, um, you know, in regards to Christ's consciousness, we are one with God. So, like if he he made the example, like if God is a brain, then we are the wavelengths of the brain. Like we are part of, and I said people should be able to accept that because even the Bible that they read says that we are the body of Christ. Okay, so I might be just a fingernail, but I'm part of it. You know, I might just be a cell or an atom or you know what I'm saying? A blood vessel. You know, but we're all part of, and I think that our responsibility is to come to a place of where Jesus says you you love your neighbor as yourself, love God with all your heart, mind, body, soul. And so what does that look like? Does it look like war? Does it look like murdering whole civilizations? Does it look like slavery? Yeah, I mean, I could go on and on. No, it doesn't. So what what does that mean? Because now we're in we're we're in a a little bit of a standoff, like which is it, right? And so that's that's where I'm at. I'm trying to figure out what that looks like and what my uh what the truth is, because if I'm going off this book that has 66 books in it, but then there's other books that this council decided didn't need to be in there. Um why can't we read those, by the way?

SPEAKER_06 53:00

Um because Jesus says magic in those.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Yeah, and that's the thing. Like, don't say that. Don't don't even bring up any of that. Like you brought up Ricky and he in, you know, energy work and stuff like that. I definitely want to talk about that, by the way. But they don't, they again, it's that picture that has been created of who they think Jesus was, what he looked like, how he dressed, how he smelled, how he spoke, you know, uh they think he walked around speaking English. You know, it's just it's well.

SPEAKER_06 53:33

Do you think we have an accurate statue of Buddha? Like, did he look like that? Did he have teeth? Was he really that heavy? Like, you know, I mean, we can what did they look, what did they worship, what did they look like is, you know, one thing. But what I wonder more than that is if in fact you were not born in, and you know, some people could probably answer this because they're born in places where they're not born into religious believing families or countries or communities. If in fact, and and I know this actually just from talking to a I just went to a uh jewelry thing. Uh there's this Russian guy that collects a lot of relics and old religious uh archaeological finds and things, and he he had a display that I just went to the other day. He's from Russia where they didn't have religion. Religion's illegal. So you don't grow up looking, asking, thinking, or wondering who is God? I wonder myself, if I was not handed a Bible and taken to CCD and put in church and given my first communion and raised the way my dad was raised, would I have come out of the womb and said, Who is God? Who am I to worship? Uh which of you gods, you know, like which one's gonna hand me a book first, which one, you know, if you're not indoctrinated from birth, are you even thinking about God at all? Uh at all. I mean, you're not thinking about any of this. And then we've got this story that claims to be in the beginning where you have two creation stories, and who's that God? I don't think that the God that we you want to imagine in what you just said, the creator, the loving, the all the in-us God. Uh I don't think he's mentioned in in the Bible, really. We're talking about kings and pharaohs and lords and and and people called God.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

And yeah, um, and that's that's really what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_06 55:22

Yeah, it's it's um they would have written letters saying, My Lord and my God, they called people my God, and you know, so we are reading the book of these people. We're not reading the book of the world or of all the world of all ever. Uh it's literally their book. We picked it. Why not go into the library and pick up any old dusty old religion book and join that cult? Uh because that's what we do with the Bible. We pick it up and we say, Oh, I'm I'm in now. I'm a Gentile, or I'm, you know, I'm whatever. Yeah, what's it called with the tree that they do, they am fused in now, or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Yeah, grafted.

SPEAKER_06 56:09

Yeah, grafted, grafted in. Uh yeah. All of a sudden we join this tribe, the story's about us, the God is our God. Uh we, you know, we're suffering the sufferings, and you know, but why? Like, what if we didn't pick up that book or ever hear that story? We would not have any of those ideas in our heads.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Yeah. Uh I totally agree with that.

SPEAKER_06 56:28

And then even in the books, like you're saying, Jesus never that I can think of right now calls his God Yahweh. Um, you're right, they're very distinct, different gods from the old and new testaments. Um, Jesus doesn't call Yahweh from the cross. He he says what they think is Eli or Heli, or which was not only the name of his grandpa, but you could say it was the god Helios, and where that was sun worship, uh Yahweh is a moon god. So we've had a split in religion, even in the Israelites, where we had the southern tribes who stayed at the temple, which was Levi, Benjamin, and the and Judah, half of Benjamin and Judah stayed in the southern temple area, where the others, all the other Israelites, went up and built a cow again at Dan and became, you know, they were in the Babylonian areas and they're they're up anyway, we won't do geography right now, but they're not going to the temple every week or day or whatever they did. Uh they became separate and they intermingled and married with other people and cultures and things, and there's even in the Bible, he's telling them, Don't be scared as you go up there because they nail trees to the wall, or you know, like they have weird gods, and you know, but only yeah, Yahweh, or you know, it's it's like the gods are fighting for your attention, and you know, he's he's not saying I'm the only God, it's I'm the god of gods. I'm the you know, if the god of gods, the lord of lords, he's in a heavenly council, he uh Elohim is plural, you know. There's Yahweh is the trickster that he just made everybody believe he's the one true God, he's the god, he's the one we follow, he's the one the Israelites followed, da da da da da da da, you know, and we m our brains don't separate, you know, like well, that's not really what's going on here in the New Testament. Or maybe it's what they're breaking away from by saying all of that, you know, you've you've seen it written, but I say this, you know. Uh so they don't all agree on it, and they don't all follow it. And like I said, even the Israelites, after being out of Egypt, built another cow statue. Moses destroyed it, you know. So they're worshiping other gods the whole way through.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

And then they just don't want you to think so. And and it makes me think too, like, okay, um I just my mind is so goofy. Um, I think of the movie The Ten Commandments, right? Where Charleston Heston's character goes up to get the tablets, and then all of a sudden he's coming down with the tablets, and he see, and I'm like, how did they make that thing so fast? Yeah, right. Come on, now they're grabbing everyone's earrings and rings and necklaces and all their jewelry, and then all of a sudden they're melting it into this golden calf.

SPEAKER_05 59:33

And I So wait, stop right there, stop right there.

SPEAKER_06 59:35

Think about that. So they've been their slaves, right? They're poor slaves, and they've been kicked out of Egypt and chased out and wandering in the desert. Why do they have so much gold, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:48

Right.

SPEAKER_06 59:49

They've got enough, they've got enough gold and enough cloth and enough coutremon to make the tabernacle in the desert, uh, which took a lot of fabric and a lot of things and gold and stuff to to do. They didn't leave empty-handed, they pillaged Egypt before they left. They weren't chased out, they were given tribute to leave, or they like it says, you know, they they took it. So are they the poor victims? Or, you know, why why you got so many earrings, really? And now they won't don't wear earrings at all, right? So so there's another two-party system where, well, I mean, not all of them, so there's a a two thought. Some people do not wear gold or earrings or adorn or anything, and others are like, yeah, no, that didn't happen. Uh so um I'm I think somewhere in the Bible there's something about that, actually. Like you you I don't remember now. Something throwing down your gold or your never mind, I'm making stuff up now.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

It just made me it just made me think like, how did they make it so fast and how why did they have all that gold jewelry? Yeah. I've been thinking about that since I was a kid.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:59

I was thinking more about how this 80-year-old man climbed a mountain several times in one day even to get to the top. Yeah, with these big stones coming down.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Let's just be honest, he was probably so butt-tired that he dropped him on his way down.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:18

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:22

Because okay, he's carrying two big tablets, he has no hands to get down. Like you're climbing down a mountain, come on. Like, have you ever seen somebody climb a mountain?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:33

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, and not at 80, you know. Uh, but and I think that's what he came down to. So he's trying to switch the year the worship, and they are still wanting to worship the cow. Correct. And so he slays it. It's always a battle between these two groups the whole way through the stories. Uh and more groups, not just these two, but they're the main stars there for a minute. Um, yeah. But I think because we're reading their book in the beginning, is in the beginning of their story, not the beginning of the world and the universe and the creation of all mankind. It's in the beginning of this garden story, this temple garden where we walk naked and hang out with the god of this garden. Uh, you know, we walk with him and we talk with him, and uh it's it's their story. This is the beginning of this priesthood. This Adam, the first priest king of, you know, uh it but we know he's not the first people, because now we have the epic of Gilgamesh and we have Cain being marked so nobody else hurts him, and there's too many clues that this is not the beginning of the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:41

And then you're handed a god, you know, you're handed a statue or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Can we, and we don't have to put this in if you don't want to, just because I'm curious what your take is on Cain. What because it doesn't the Bible doesn't say what the mark is. Do you think it has to do with zodiac?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:05

You know what? That had not occurred to me. But it might.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Uh because it just seems like by your book there's so many correlations and things that aren't clearly answered in the scriptures. You seem to make a correlation in your book that makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:26

So I think that marks could be, you know, it could be a tattoo, it could be a red dot on your forehead, it could be uh, you know, um, like Jesus marked 144,000 and told them to take up their crosses. That sounds like a military strategy to me, you know, like they used to mark their soldiers or their slaves. It's branding, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Um thinking about a cow when you said that.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:51

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

Your brand yeah, you brand your cattle.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:55

Right. I mean, you could get your you know, the the the Jews got a tattoo, uh uh they got a marking when they were in the camps, and uh, you know, I I don't know exactly what it was. It could have been anything at this point, but I would have to think if anything, I would I don't know. You know, maybe a sun symbol or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

Then I then I also think about how in Revelation it talks about the mark of the beast. Do you think that has anything to do with the zodiac?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:34

No, I think that is probably some kind of actual mark that some group or some people would have been wearing visibly.

unknown 1:04:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:44

Like, for example, the Bindi, you know, the red dot on the forehead on the on the Indian uh Hindu? Yeah, Hindus. That comes from somewhere. Is it a sun symbol? Is it representing the sun? Is it representing the third eye? Is it representing, you know, what does the mark mean? Uh so symbolically it's a red dot, but I don't think it means red dot, right? Uh but it is a marking to say, I believe and belong, or what have you, you know, uh to this particular spot. Um the mark of the beast could have also some people say it's the Teflon. The Jews would have had that box that they put on their forehead to keep the word between their eyes, and then they had the strap on their hand, and that was uh a physical mark on both the forehead and the right hand. Uh so probably it was talking about that. The mark of the beast is these people that, you know, in that part of the story would have been visible markings. Uh so yeah. I would definitely have I haven't s researched marks that much, so I bet I could chase it down somehow or another, but uh They definitely, you know, I don't would it be zodiac? I don't know, because did they have a sign? You know, would it be like a cow, you know, which would be like the half circle with the horns, or maybe for sure, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

I mean, but so do you think when it comes to the zodiac in the Bible, do you think it's more about like just like symbolic language or or like is it just or is it like um uh more literal?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:32

Okay, so I think that they were telling these stories okay, so there's real people, right? I believe there are real characters who are really looking up at the real sky and the real zodiac, but they're also kind of acting it out, they're mimicking it at the same time. For example, I mean, I couldn't say for sure, but there's a couple of religions that do spinning, you know, they spin counterclockwise around an object, or the whirling dervishes do it, they do it at Mecca, they do it, they're spinning in a rotational thing around a rock. And I believe that that's a zodiac meaning, like they're imitating the stars in the sky by doing that. There's no other reason. Uh so um so uh what?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:27

Well, I was just saying, like, do you think it's more like a like symbolic, or is it more like a literal thing when you're making the comparisons with like we talked about at the beginning, like Lamb of God, and then the Fisher of Men being Right, so I think it's both.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:45

I think back in the day they would have done, like we've seen in movies where you have a scorpion king, or uh, you know, they would put on headdresses with goat heads and uh, you know, dance around like Mullock or have a bonfire, and and they would take these zodiac ideas and the king would be Orion. For you know, he'd be Gilgamesh. So there's the Gilgamesh in the sky, which is Orion, and then there's the king on earth that is embodying that. And for you know, these ceremonies he'll dress a certain way, he might carry a club in his hand, and he might chase a bull, you know. Uh they are mimicking the sky. These people, these tribes, these religions would look up and do this. The priests would use it for teaching, they would act out a story that you know, a sky story. Even Noah's Ark is probably a zodiac, you know, uh, there's Argo, they've broken it up now, but the only ship constellation uh is a it's a story where you know, like two of each animal coming to it, you know, it's zodiac speak, pretty much. Was there a worldwide flood? We're having a hard time proving that and not proving that, you know, uh or agreeing on it at the very least. Did it, you know, so I think it's both. I think there's a lot of zodiac speak, but they would know what it meant or why it was being said. For example, in the New Testament, there's a part where they're told, go find the man carrying a pitcher of water, follow him into whatever house he goes into. Okay, that's zodiac speak. The the man carry you're just gonna walk into a town and find a man carrying a pitcher of water. So we're supposed to believe that miraculously there is a man walking carrying a pitcher of water. Or it's it it's the Aquarius, uh, you know, the man with the pitcher of water is the constellation. Follow him into the how into the upper room, into the house, you know, that he goes. So ask him, is I forget all this, but ask him something is is it prepared for the master or something like that? So in those days where they would have been having church in upper rooms and houses, and you know, they weren't going to big old cathedrals and stuff. I believe we have found in archaeology zodiac motif floors, Jewish zodiacs. They are mosaic tiled floors in temples that show for sure they were into zodiac. Uh but I think probably they would have even sat around the zodiac, which is why sometimes we see the apostles called like by the names of the months. Uh I I haven't seen it a lot, but somewhere like on a bookmark or something, you know, you'd see like, oh, Paul is January, or you know what I mean? Like uh and I think probably they would have sat on the floor on a zodiac in and today John is sitting on Pisces, and today Mark is sitting on Aquarius. So the man with the picture of the water, which house does he go in in and to this upper room? And then this is where they have this their secret inauguration meetings and initiations and so on and so forth. They get taught the zodiac secrets, you know. Uh that's probably what the fish and the bread are.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

The the loaves and fishes?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:15

Yeah, it's it's teaching about the new Pisces coming upon us. Uh and bread has always been knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Do you think then that was like again, it was just a nod to the zodiac where Jesus fed the five thousand, the multitude with the loaves and fishes?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:36

I think that means he was teaching them about this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

About it. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:41

Yeah. Okay. These were new initiates. He goes, he's he's it's like a cult guy going out into the desert with a bunch of new followers, and he's teaching them that the zodiac is changing to Pisces. Uh, it's upon us. It's the fishermen, you know, the fisher kings. We're in the fisher world. Yeah. Uh and then we and then we have baskets. We have 12 baskets, you know, those are 12 houses. You know, I mean, it's all very symbolic in that area.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:08

That's very interesting. And then Jesus always spoke in parables, too. So, like, are any of the parables a zodiac, you know, correlation?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:22

I think the parallel parables are more true stories that maybe they weren't allowed to talk about because of Rome, or you know, they had to be secret about what they were saying or doing and telling the stories. Uh, but I believe they were true stories. For example, the out-of-state landlord. Uh he had workers on the field and they hide the money, and one grows it, and one does this, and one does that. And and then there's like all kinds of parables where it's like, I think that was really happening. The one with the wedding. The the king invites ever everybody to the wedding, but they take it lightly, they don't care, they don't want to come. So he goes and invites the street people, and they come, but one of them wouldn't put on his church garments or something, and he gets thrown out to the outer banks with gnashing his teeth. Uh, I think that's a true story that really happened where there was a king who probably was having a marriage that they were frowning upon. His son or daughter was probably marrying someone the people didn't want him to marry. Uh and so they're like, No, we're not going to support this wedding, we're not coming. And he said, Fine, I'll invite these people. And, you know, so I think the parables are more of a true story that he was telling about actual events going on at the time. Uh, there was some land that Rome promised tax-free, but then they were using it themselves or taxing it. And so it's he got rid of all the tax people and the you know the what about uh the prodigal son?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:57

Because I'm sitting here listening to you talk about basically there was this dynamic of what ideology is gonna win, the bull or the lamb, right? The this this this teaching of back and forth where it seems like the Israelites were By the time we figure it out, we're gonna be dawning on the age of Aquarius. You know, I mean I just it just made me think of like the prodigal son, the story of the prodigal son. And then you have like the father, and you have the one son that leaves, and then the other son that stays and works and is faithful. But then basically I mean, I've always thought, hey, you know, if I was the one that stayed and was faithful, I would be pissed too if some delinquent sibling of mine came back and then he was like, for sure, let's give him all the best. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:51

It's like no, yeah, he's not getting the big room back. Forget it, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

So I didn't know if that was like a story that was created for the Israelites as a comparison type of thing. Um what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:09

So I think the stories are much bigger than we are given, right? So we get one little sentence about an entire people movement or something going on, you know. We don't get a lot of, and what we never get really is the story of the other brother, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

Yeah. So we follow the favorite, and the favorite always preached that, you know, the other brother, you know, he had a bad attitude, he was bitter, he shouldn't have acted that way, you know, and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:40

And it's like But who's telling the story, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:44

So so it's we there's so many stories, even to this day, most religions happened because two brothers got in a fight, and one wanted to go over there and grow corn, and this one didn't like corner, you know, like it's yeah, it's always something like that, uh, with Jacob and Esau. And which brings me to another, like the Exodus event that we have is probably a way bigger, um, probably over years. There were in the Bible, we have at least three or four kind of Exodus events that I think were probably much bigger civil war type events, but they're kind of just glossed over. Like when Abraham is kicked out of Egypt, he's told, Well, you know, why have you done this to me and brought plagues upon my household? And the Pharaoh for you know, telling me that's your sister, why didn't you tell me it was your wife? The Pharaoh doesn't kill them, he makes them, you know, you can't stay here. You you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here, kind of thing. Is Abraham got to leave with his people and his women and his slaves and his cattle and his stuff and his gold and his cousin and his uh the Pharaoh just saw them to the state line and said, You can't, you know, you've brought plague onto my household by doing this to me. There's a moment where a big group of people was probably moved because we know that it's so big that him and Lot can't even share the land when they get out. They, you know, one has to go over there because we're just big, you know. Uh Abraham's 300 men, if they call them servant workers or something. I mean, what kind of poor shepherd out in the field has 300 servant men running around? You know, those were probably military captains. There was probably there were probably thousand people under each 300 of them. He was probably a much bigger story than we're getting. You know, he was probably a king and he ruled in Egypt for a time and something went wrong, and then we hear about the plagues. So that's one exodus where we see Abraham and a big group of people moving, even with Jacob and Esau. Jacob has to go fleeing, he's afraid of his brother, and he has to get out of there, and they go running. In fact, that's probably who's up in Israel by the time the others get there. Uh they go and you know, burning cities as they go, and probably burn Jericho even. So big movements where we're just like, uh, Esau was a jerk. And but what happened? He had lands and people, and you know, so there's a whole different story that we don't have the book for, you know. We're not they didn't write an annul, or like I don't know why they don't have a Bible. Uh but most of the times it's a brother, oh, that brother got lost to history, or we don't know what happened to him, or he was of no importance, and really it's just to keep you focused on this main group of people and their story and their God and their in the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:39

Yeah. So do you think that there so you're not saying like every story of the Bible is symbolic with a zodiac?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:50

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:51

I am saying that the zodiac runs heavily through what these people, these real people, believed and worshipped and did and said, and how their worship would change or become at all. You know, I think the halo between the saint, I mean, behind the heads of the saints in the artwork that you see is a sun. It's the sun worshippers. They were the helios, the the auton worship, the the uh yeah, it's what's a halo? Like, come on. It's it's something symbolic. Right. So it's probably a sun symbol, so is the phoenix, so is a palm tree. Um a lot of these symbols are talking about solar or lunar or planetary things.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

That's interesting. I know um yesterday we had talked on the phone and we had talked about um you know Jesus' power and doing energy work and Reiki, and that freaks people out. When you say that, they're like, Jesus wasn't new age. Um, he wasn't into all that, you know, um Eastern mysticism type stuff. Let's talk about that because all of this is very interesting to me. Um and when we brought this up yesterday, you got really excited.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:15

So um well just because I I think new age is actually the old age, like it was tucked. I think the Bible, the religion, all religions have probably set us back by thousands of years as far as uh progress goes. Back when they were doing science and magic and things and maths and such, the religions quashed it. The governments didn't want you being smart and questioning authority and knowing more than the king or the son or the uh so if we can keep you focused on this, you know. But I I don't see any difference. That I that's just something that I came up with in my brain is laying on of hands. I used to be like, oh my god, I knew this girl who was a psychic. That's her job. She reads telecards and been to all kinds of gurus and does that for a living and does parties and uh she always wanted to do my reading. I'm like, oh heck no, I don't look to you know. Uh so I I just talked about her and then forgot everything else I was gonna say about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:25

Oh, we're just talking about like Jesus and uh the the way that's yeah yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:29

The new way. I think that there's no way that the laying on how could you not be freaked out about some traveling preacher coming and laying on hands on people and making people's legs longer than the other? Uh if you've ever been to a healing meeting or the believers' conferences or anything like that, you'll go and people are healed at these meetings. There's a guy that will come up and he'll lay hands on you and you'll fall down or your leg will grow out and uh your sight will come back or your tumor will shrink or what have you. It it people swear by it. There's witnesses, they've said it's happened in their own families. They've um but I believe even that is sort of an energy healing because you've got everybody focused on one thing. I don't think the magic is in the preacher's hand. I think that's just a point of faith where we're we're doing energy work. We're you know, focusing on a person, their illness, praying for the best. Whatever praying is to people. Are you chanting? Are you praying? Are you casting a spell? Are you uh, you know, what have are you reading a planet? Like, what are you doing? Uh I think it's kind of all the same. But they just wanted to criminalize it because it's not our way. If you know, if it's not our way, it's not Yahweh. So uh I I don't see any, you know, of course there's people that are like, it's bad, it's bad, and that's gonna be you know from Yahweh who wanted all the attention and power, and don't look at the planets and look at me, and I do everything and I created them, and uh where there's probably people that are much more free than us, where they can think for themselves and see that stuff actually worked. I now okay, now fast forward a little bit into I saw you getting your your what was it, your birth charts done. Uh yeah, was that yesterday? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:18

So I kind of I float between, I live in the between land where I don't know that the planets pull our personalities and say things, you know, there's a lot of things that that relate, and you're you're like, oh yeah, I am like Taylor Swift with my energy, or you know, like yeah, yeah, it's fun to know we're the same sign and look at me, you know. Um, but there's about 700 million thousand other people that will say that I could relate to everything in your sign. Uh I am less like my sign. Every time I have ever read a horoscope, I'm like almost, you know, like I don't sit well in my sign when they tell, you know, like you're this or you're that or you're, you know, you like to lead and do this, and I'm like, nope, wrong guy. Uh yeah. I really don't relate to my sign. That being said, I also think that the signs are off. I think really you're not the zodiac sign that you think you are, but you're the one, would it be before or after? Before it, because they haven't updated, they haven't updated it in 2000 years, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:25

Uh there's I don't think this is where you're talking about like the Gregorian calendar versus the Julian calendar?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:37

Uh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:40

But go ahead. Do you have a thought there?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:43

Well, I mean, because I I had um there was something that came out I I want to say last year I saw online where it was like there's actually 13 months.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:54

And um there's a whole nother sign.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:58

Yeah, okay. So and then and then talked about like September should be seven, October should be eight. Right, right. Except you know, right. Like and it's not right.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:12

So it's not, it's it is off. Things have been removed, things have been renamed. There's constellations that are not visible anymore, so they just picked a different one because they didn't relate it to the religion, you know, or the the history of some ancient text that was talking about it. So it's like, oh well, we can no longer see Argo Novus in the sky, so we don't talk about it. Or we split it up into three different constellations and never refer to it have been in a ship, you know. Uh so yes, things have changed, things have been taken out. I don't know if it was right at Gregorian and Roman. I know even the Egyptian calendar, like they had floating days where they ended up with extra week at the end of the year, and they had to stop that by having a festival day, or um and over the years it would correct itself to stay in tune with the zodiac, where today we celebrate New Year's in the freezing cold death of January instead of in spring when everything is new, right? So clearly we've been messed with. Uh I think it's all all about, you know, uh, there's people that will tell you about the Schumann resonance and the the vibes and the the I don't know anything about any of that stuff, but I think probably there's something to energy, and you know, I don't feel like celebrating spring in January necessarily if you live somewhere where there's actual weather. Uh nothing's blooming, nothing's new, nothing's warm and bright, and you know, so we've been messed up with that, with time change, with you know what we eat and how we plant and when we plant and when our crops will be good, and you know, right. So whichever calendar, there's been a few switches over the years, uh, but we've been sometimes it was to realign us with those festivals and times of year, and sometimes it would float away from that again.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:04

And would the festivals coincide with the zodiac?

SPEAKER_06 1:27:08

It probably more with like moon festivals, like the full and waning and waxing moons and w where the sun is in the sky, or you know what yeah, it would be in the sky, but not necessarily constellation, more of solar lunar movements, probably mostly uh for most calendars.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:28

Um I mean that that right there is just very interesting to me. But so somebody could be listening to this to say, okay, what does that have to do with the Bible? How how do you think that if someone reads your book and looks at that from the lens like read then reads their Bible from the lens of the zodiac, is that gonna change their view on things?

SPEAKER_06 1:28:00

Uh okay, wait. Ask that a different way?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:03

So if if someone reads the Bible through the zodiac lens, is that gonna you know what is gonna change for them?

SPEAKER_06 1:28:12

A lot of the miracles are gonna seem a little weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:16

Uh how so? So like that's you don't have to give me like a reference. I don't need like a in Luke, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:22

You don't just tell you know Yeah, no, like for example, that 13, the zodiac that you were talking about, I think it's Taylor Swift's favorite, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:30

Her number 13, which is weird because 13 has been demonized. The the actual oh thirteen is an unlucky number.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:40

I mean well, and there's other reasons for that, but uh I think that was what they say the Templars were murdered on the 13th or something. You know, I mean there's all they use the numbers over the years for different things. But there was a constellation which whose name I'm not gonna be able to think of right now. It's it starts with an O. It is the one that Taylor likes. Um I'm trying to look at Osphicus or something. Ospicius or we'll have to put it in the comments later, maybe. Um but that particular zodiac is of a man handling a snake, right? So you will be able to handle snakes and not be harmed. That is zodiac speak. Uh you can drink from the cup and not be poisoned. There's another zodiac.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:26

This is where the Pentecostals have gone crazy. That's what they think. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:32

Yeah, you ended up with snake charmer. There's whole groups of people handling snakes as a church service, you know, in the Ozarks. But uh, you know, all the snake charming, and you know, that's because Paul said you could handle snakes and not be harmed, or someone said it. Uh, but that is definitely a zodiac speak. Um, I I talked about the man with the pitcher of water, that's a zodiac speak. I think that the Bible doesn't say rainbow at the time of Noah's Ark, it says bow, and I believe I think that's Sagittarius. It's trying to tell us what time it is. The Bible is telling us what time it is. Uh, it's the bow of it's an archer's bow of Sagittarius. It says bow. Um it says bow.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:12

It doesn't say rainbow, guys. Sorry. I know you want to think that the LGBTQIA community stole it, they didn't. I mean, you can let them have it, let them have it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:22

You never owned it.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:23

I know. It's like, oh, I know. It doesn't. I when I read that, I got really excited and I was like, you're right, it does say bow. It does not say rainbow.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:33

It does not say rainbow. And and kind of the if you do so, someone who knows the zodiac more. In fact, perhaps maybe even I forget the girl's name you were talking to last night, uh, with the star charts.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

Chris.

unknown 1:30:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:47

Uh she probably, if her and I got in a conversation, I could say something topical, and she'd be like, Oh yeah, well, in the zodiac, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? But I don't know enough about the zodiac to fill in the blanks, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:59

What are you even talking about, girlfriend? You wrote a whole book about it. You do.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:04

So my book is not okay. So my book is basically it is, but a lot of that comes from AI, the zodiac charts. I didn't know that off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:14

You've done online and all of that.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:16

If I saw something weird in the Bible, I went and I was like, where can we figure this out? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:22

So uh, but for me, you know, I would like people to deconstruct from not just Christianity. I'm not the one that's like, so a lot of people say, you know, I only bash on Christians because I was a Christian, but I think at this point, it especially for the next generation, I think it's kind of important, in my opinion, to stop all of these religions. They've done nothing but bring harm, damage, um, death, murder. We're having wars, uh yeah, religious wars and uh people in captivity and uh because of religion. I mean, Iran itself has been under a religious uh you know, 50, 60, 70 years. This has been it's an Islamic it's an Islamic government. And we could say that, oh, well, you're under a Christian government. The lucky thing is we're not we're not as good at being Christians, like we don't practice as hard as they they believe much better than we do, you know. We're kind of like uh but they're in full practice, full swing of what they believe and what they say. And at the end of all three religions, there is this holy war, which that's where pres preterism comes in. And if anybody changes their mind reading about miracles or seeing things differently, I hope I think the easiest thing to see that will change your mind if you give it a fair chance, uh, is preterism.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:44

It's now explain what that is for anybody that doesn't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:48

Okay, so there's there's full and partial preterism. I am a full preterist.

unknown 1:32:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:54

Preterism is the idea that the entire entirety of the book of Revelation and the Old Testament is in the past. Yes, it already happened. We're not getting a new Jerusalem, we're not looking at new times, we're not doing it, you know, it's done, it is finished, it is over. And there are people who could explain all the things that you're gonna say, like, oh, what about the you know, the whatever? What about the king with this or the desecration of that, or the you know, you'll see you'll see things in Revelation go, like, oh that didn't happen yet, that didn't happen yet. Right. There are people definitely, and that can tell you, which I could tell you most of them, but it's a whole conversation, word by word, you know, like how yes, that did happen in the first century. Yes, they did encircle this city for 40 days, yes, there were locusts, yes, there were, you know. Um all of the things that you're fearing in the book of Revelation already took place in the in the first century. So it is yeah, um, there is no heaven or hell. Okay, I'm not gonna take heaven away from anybody that there's no hell, so they could lose the fear if you would study and research what and where that came from, who made it up and why.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:14

Um okay. Can we talk about that for a second?

SPEAKER_06 1:34:18

Well, I mean, I don't know everything, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:20

Yeah, okay. So then what do you think? Like, say somebody doesn't go to quote unquote heaven, what happens to them, in your opinion, just from the research.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:30

Well, I'm of the opinion that we have no idea. There is not one person who could come back and tell you the answer to that. So we have all the guesses.

unknown 1:34:39

Right?

SPEAKER_06 1:34:40

So you know, we have a couple near-death experiences, but I even think that that's just brain chemicals, you know, like whatever you believed you're gonna see, probably type of thing. Um so, or whatever you feared, or what have you. Uh, I saw flatliners, it could be anything. Um so that movie is so scary to me, right? Well, and so it's kind of my reality now. So nihilism is the idea that nothing, this is it. Make the best of it, you know, party now. Because I don't know what happens next. Some would say energy never dies, and we are energy, so what does it I don't know. We don't know. Nobody knows, and if they're telling you that they know, they're lying to you. So that's something to think about. Um because again, when you look up and study the words of heaven, even the Bible itself, good luck studying heaven. The Bible itself says like three things about this place that we're supposed to be focused on to spend our eternity. It doesn't even tell you much about it. Streets of gold and dancing around a throne all day worshiping. Like, I don't want to do that. I never wanted to go like one hour of worship is all I got. I'm not gonna be like happily spinning around the throne giving you know praise 24-7. I'm not, you know, uh that doesn't sound like heaven to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:58

Uh so then you add eternity to onto that, and you're like, uh I'm gonna go to hell where it looks fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:04

I've seen the album covers, like, hell looks fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:07

There's a party, there's smoking and drinking and fire, and I mean well, if people haven't turned this off already, that was it. That was it. They're like, I'm going to hell.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:21

They've probably already decided. They've already decided that's probably where I'm going.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:27

Well, hey, I've been called all kinds of things since starting this podcast. Like, um, my favorite is I've been called a witch. I'm like, okay, um, that's kind of a common thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:38

Oh, I was called a witch and a snake. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:44

I mean, from what I understand, a witch is actually a healer. I don't consider myself a healer, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:51

You're saying witch like it's a bad thing. Like why? Yeah, like why are you that's from the Catholic Church. They're the only ones that don't like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:59

It was given a bad connotation, that's why.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:02

Right, because it's it's against them having all the power. If I could go to a psychic for answers, why would I go to the priest, you know? And then they're not gonna get my tithe, you know, it's competing spirits. Uh yeah, and I believe anybody charging for any of that information is also part of the problem, you know. Like, if you know something like earth-shaking, groundbreaking, you know, like uh like Chris Bledsoe right now, like he's got UFOs on his in orbs, and he's like he's a guy that does orbs. He's got but he's got a religious spin on it. Uh he's he well, I mean, he's probably Christian first, and then he saw orbs, and then he saw a lady talk to him like it's this whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:44

Um you talk about the orb that's in California right now?

SPEAKER_06 1:37:48

No, I'm talking about this guy can beckon call orbs and they'll appear to him.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:53

Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:55

Okay. Um so uh that being said, I mean, people have seen it, they've witnessed it, they've said it's true, they've seen him do it, his family agrees. You know, I mean, uh I've you know, we can all look up and see something moving around the sky. I've seen it since I was kids. We used to call them satellites, but now if the earth's flat, it's not a satellite. So I don't know, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:15

Uh who knows? I haven't been out there and seen it, so I don't even know.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:19

But but now these orbs have been visible, but you know, and we have drones and we have military things going on that we'll never know about. And um or they could be they could be plasma orbs from some sort of divine divinity or alien, whatever. I have no clue, but what I'm not gonna do is guess and panic and start paying for information and going to institutes to have you hypnotize me to start believing by hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:52

Right, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:54

Right? Um anything can become a cult or uh if you're if you're told not to think or don't lean on your own understanding, uh you need to run. Uh if you celebrate the founder's birthday, you should run. If they're concerned about your underwear in any way, shape, or form, it's a cult. Uh like Mormonism.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:15

The Mormon, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:16

Well, and you know, the military, even it's a necessary cult, but it's a cult. Uh yeah, so uh anyway, if there's we just we just lost the last two people that were listening to this episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:33

How dare you say the military? Whatever, guys! I'm a patriot.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:39

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:41

Not only are you blaspheming, but now you're just desecrating America.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:45

Yeah, I know. I I didn't think I was gonna go all the way there, but here are they are it's totally fine, it's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:52

Um okay, so but like hell, that is a really hard concept for people to grasp. Like, how can you say there's not a hell? I mean, there has to be a place for the bad people to go.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:02

Yeah, wouldn't that be comforting? It would be nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:04

Uh yeah, and so but they're closed-minded to the concept of uh like having multiple lives, being able to, you know, pass in one life if you were a bad person and then be re-entered into another life where you're gonna learn some hard lessons because karma, um, they're they're closed-minded to that concept. And right, even though then imagine the split.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:33

Like, I had to have a split, but there's a lot of disassociation that goes on because early on, when you're learning all this stuff, you do have questions, you're like, What? That doesn't make sense. How did that happen? But then eventually you stop asking those questions because you're taught to just believe. Exactly. Just have faith. Your faith isn't big enough if you're asking questions, you know. So the when I think back at the split personality I had to have to believe in hell and walk around in my normal day-to-day life with, you know, and I believed everything. I was a Bible-believing spirit-filled, you know, like this is not none of that's new to me. But looking back, if I believed that my cousin or my relatives, or the, you know, I had a cousin that committed suicide because he was at one of those uh one of those provost schools, you know, those wilderness schools. Uh yes. So he blew his brains out, and you know, um, and this is after he got out of it. He was an adult, he was engaged, he was about to pull it together, he got his, you know, his welding license, and everything was going good. And you think, gosh, what happened? Like, you got out, you know, you got out. And prior to that, his family was super Christian, like his his mom was really super, super like, oh, we lost the car keys, everybody bow your heads and pray, you know. Um, right? So that's how he's raised, and then by having a personality, he's a bad kid, and so let's ship him off to one of these places. And um anyway, the but the point is he committed suicide and he was a bad kid and he didn't believe anymore. And so if I believed for one second that people that have died, like grandma or they died without knowing Jesus, are burning in hell, right? Uh if you know, if I thought for one second that you know, my brother, who was not a believer when he went to war, was not like he's gonna if he dies, he's gonna burn in hell. Like, I wasn't concerned if he died in war, I was concerned of his afterlife. My biggest concern was I want to see you again in heaven. Like, you know, it it's it's kind of sick how we don't focus on this life at all and we bypass it and let it go by so fast, focusing on the next one that may or may not be a thing. Um so but the splitting of my brain to think how how am I just at lunch right now knowing that Aunt Gertrude is in hell boiling in fire? Uh you know what I mean? Like if I either believe it or I don't, you know. I either believe it or I don't. And the same with heaven. Can I really wrap my brain around? No, but oh then it's because my understanding isn't big enough. Well then then I'm not supposed to understand it. Right. And neither do you. Neither do you, because the Bible just told you three things. There's a throne, there's a gold streets, there's no s need of the sun or the moon and whatever else, you know, some gates and early gates, jazz. Right. So you know, in my opinion, that's already been done.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:30

So um it's so in regards to preterism, do what is the view on heaven and hell?

SPEAKER_06 1:43:40

Well is it mainly just about end times is already you know back then they didn't really have you know, the Jews especially didn't have an idea of eternity with God in heaven or really hell for that matter either. Like um so in regards to that. I think that's why there's not a lot written about it. So preterism, I think, okay, so I think it's the healthiest because when you look at it, it's over, it doesn't affect us. If it was over so long ago, that means that by the time I was born, by the time you were born, by the time any of us, your grandma, your grandpa were born, it was already finished. So that means you weren't born into sin. You weren't born into this where you had to be set free by a savior who needed to shed his blood. And that had nothing to do with you because you're born after it was finished. Either Jesus' blood conquered sin or it didn't, and it's still put into every newborn baby who was born a dirty sinner at this point, right? So that's what we're supposed to believe. Uh you're told that you're a sinner. You're you're made to believe that you're uh sinning is separation from God, which you know, whatever, but are you further away because of this religion? Uh like you said, if we were closer to the red letters, then you know you can find inspiration anywhere. I mean, Buddha had some really nice things to say too, and some, you know, you can live by stoicism, you can live by uh any philosophy, thoughts, you know. I mean, you can get tools anywhere and use them, but if you have to then worship something or believe that you're dirty and and not worthy and uh somehow need this to save you, then I would run. And uh preterism, I think, helps with that because it's done. Like it's not happening anymore. You're not being born, you don't have to be set free, you're not going to hell for sinning, obviously, or you I mean we're not even acting like we believe it, you know. I'm gonna sin and repent and sin and repent and sin and repent. I mean, you'd be so far away from sin if you literally thought hell was the you know, if if you could believe that yourself, the gnashing of teeth and the uh you know, if you thought there was any chance of you going there after lying, then people would never lie again, you know. So I I think it they don't believe it really, but they have to believe it and they're supposed to believe it, and then there's a fear because what if it's true, and then what if I, you know, uh people smarter than myself said so, or you know, um I think preterism sets you free from all of it because it doesn't you don't have to join, it is finished. Even so the main part of preterism that I like is the all of it discourse. When Jesus was standing there telling his friends, looking them in the eyes, the same way you and I are sitting here talking right now, he was telling them what they were about to go through. He told them that he would return before they got through the cities, that some of those standing there, even the ones that pierced him, would still be there when he returned. They would see him returning on the clouds, they were going through all of this. This is Jesus in person, first century, talking to his people about this stuff. So either he was lying to them or he's lying to us, and that's a good way to think about it. When you read your Bible, is Jesus lying to his friends when he says some of you standing here will still be here? Or am I reading it wrong and trying to add myself to the story and pretend he was talking to me 2,000 years later? Right? So he was telling them soon, these things are happening soon. This is at hand, this is knocking on their door, it's shortly, it's you know, all the words of urgency. It's happening in the first century. And we're eternally waiting for it, and it's not gonna happen, and it's never gonna happen because it already happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:34

Yeah. Um do you think that there was any zodiac symbolic sim, what am I looking at? Oh man, that's my word. Thank you. Symbolism um in what he was saying to them, like in his ascent back to heaven as well. Like any like seeing him in the cloud. Like, I'm thinking my mind just goes to all these places when you're talking. Like, I'm like, and then the book of Revelations, it says he's gonna be coming down from the sky riding on a horse. Like, is any so that that's zodiac?

SPEAKER_06 1:48:08

I think that's zodiac. If you look up the each of the four horses, you can find zodiac.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:12

I was gonna ask about the four horsemen. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:14

Yeah, you can find zodiac meaning behind each one of those. But as far as the all of it discourse and what he was saying to them, I think it was more of reality, uh, kind of um less zodiac. The Romans, this this is happening, the war, the temple, this will not be standing, that's gonna happen. This is gonna it's really what was happening in this Roman war that really happened, right? Um so it's probably like the way he's speaking about uh let me think of uh uh is it locusts? What is the name of that? There's a weapon that the Romans had. Right now my brain is too scrambled to think of it, and it I think it's called a locust. Uh the locust came for like 42 months or something, and this is the weapon. It's like a catapult that the Romans had, and that's the name of it. Uh it's not a locust, though. Is it a scorpion? It's a scorpion. Maybe it's a scorpion.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:13

Are you talking about for like the book of Revelation?

SPEAKER_06 1:49:16

Yeah, and also just what these people were gonna and to go through, like the war that Jesus is telling them that this is happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:25

It was like um it's like a scorpion with uh like a locust scorpion. So it has wings, it flies around, and it has a man's head, like a human man's head. Is that what you're talking about? So it's well no.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:40

But that's probably a zodiac. I'm talking about the Roman War when they're they're gonna be besieged on all sides. I would have to look it up. Like I said, I've forgotten more about the Bible than I ever knew at this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:53

You're like, I'm just saying the zodiac at this point and how it's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:59

Like honestly. It's um there's I think the words are coded for the war that they really were about to go through. And he was using speak that they would understand. Uh they knew what he was talking about. They didn't have to imagine what it could possibly be 2,000 years later when you can't imagine um being encompassed on all sides. Everything that is said about that war can be shown to have already happened, um which is the fear of revelation, the book of Revelation. In fact, my church wouldn't even teach it. Uh I had to ask one time. So I'm the type of person where like I if I'm holding the book, I need to know everything in it, or like why are we bothering? Like, why are we only reading the middle every day? Uh I don't know anything about the beginning or the end of this book. And once you do, then you can see bigger picture, right? And then when you read the books they took out, even bigger picture. Like, right? So you're given a portion and be like, believe that, and you don't know why or where or how or if you do, you know. Um so like when I started reading those other books, you know, Jesus didn't do magic. So there's one of the books, it's is it the Gospel of geez, I don't know. Uh Thomas or I would again I have to look everything up.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:22

The book of Enoch.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:23

Well, one of the the other books says something about Jesus was making clay birds and they were coming to life. He could make them come to life. So he was making, I don't know if they said clay, but he was were they dead birds or fake birds or something, but he was bringing them to life. They'd be singing and flapping their wings, and people saw these magic tricks. So we're gonna take that out of the Bible, but we're gonna leave turning water into wine and not act like that's not a horrifying magic trick. Like, um, you know, water into wine at a wedding. Like, these are what I said earlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:04

I would be really happy if I was thank god we're finally turning this up. Like, let's do this. I'm a party. Yeah. Who's over here with the lemon water? Give me the wine, please. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:18

Right? Right. That wedding was probably Jesus' wedding. Like, why else would his mom be in charge of the drink? But uh anyway, we're gonna be interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:28

That could be another conversation, but uh uh, and you know, so I said earlier that I think religion has set us back as far as science and philosophy and growth and magic. And there was a guy in the first century living at the same time and in some of the same locations as Jesus. His name was Hero of Alexandria, and he was pretty much a scientist. He went to the mystery schools, which really meant that they were learning math and zodiac and uh, you know, things, lots of things. Uh this guy in the first century, he made a steam engine, he made a water fountain, he made a fountain for the temples where, like, if you put a coin in, it would give you a little dose of holy water or something, you know, like the first vending machine, basically.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:15

Um it would it would suck the money and hand it to the priest immediately.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:20

And then you could have a little water on your face. Yeah. Um well, and then he had another one where if you lit candles on the altar, the the doors would close, the temple doors would close. So, you know, you hear stories like, oh, and the candles went out and the doors flew open, and oh, like it's like, well, yeah, because that's the magic trick. Uh but this all you know, he had but another thing that this hero of Alexandria created was these automation birds. He made birds, I think, out of clay or I mean whatever metal or something. I think they were clay birds. And he made them seem real. Like you know, when you go to Disneyland and you're walking by a parrot and it starts talking to you, and it's like, hey guys, welcome to drinking. Yeah, right. So they were like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:06

They could Disney World though, but yeah, I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:09

I've only been to the Epcot, like I've been to the Epcot Center once. I remember it fondly. We call it the Epcot Death March because it was like 500 degrees and humid and gnarly.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:20

Uh that was good. I don't know. To me, hell looks like Disney World in the middle of a Florida summer. That's exactly that is how like you could pay me. I will repent all day long in order to avoid that vacation because that is not one that I would ever want to go to.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:42

Yeah, we went for spring breaking it. What a joke! Like, I couldn't even walk on the sand, like the sand was so hot that I had to literally I threw my towel and then my shirt and then my towel and then my shirt so I could walk.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:54

Like I'd pick up it's really smart, actually.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:57

Yeah, it was. I was brilliant, but it was the only way we were getting down to the water.

unknown 1:55:01

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:02

So it was insane. I don't know how people anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:11

We've just solved it. We've solved it. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:14

I there is a hell. We were wrong. I was wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:17

Case closed.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:19

I forgot about the march. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:26

I can't believe people pay to go to those.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:29

Okay, I just you know, I I lived near Disneyland in California, so Disney World was not my damn. Well, it might have been it was might maybe a little better, but still it's hell on earth. Like in my life, I probably went 10 times and lived close. Like, yeah, yeah, it's you don't go if you live by it. You're like, what are you people doing here?

SPEAKER_02 1:55:56

Like Yeah, I didn't go when I wasn't living near it, and I'm still not going.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:02

Even then, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:56:03

Okay, well we're gonna I went one time as an adult and that will never happen again. I don't care if somebody hands me tickets to Disney World, I will sell them on Facebook. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:17

Been there, done that, got the ears.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:19

Thank you. I don't get it. Got the ears.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:23

Okay. So I I want to highlight your book and let people know where they can find it. Because I'm not a huge book reader, okay? If somebody sends me a book, I'm gonna read it. It might take me a year because of time. Um, but this I read in like an hour and a half, two hours, sitting at the pool one day. And I was like, this is very interesting. Um for one, I had started I'm my brain is always thinking in weird directions that probably the average person doesn't think about. Hence, you know, no dentistry in Jesus' day. But um, and I had had I've had conversations with my husband before about why are we not taught astronomy or astrology? Why are we not taught this in school anymore? This was like the basis of everything for them back in the day for centuries. They it was like their timepiece, their their map, their guide. And we're not taught it in churches or schools. And I always thought that was the oddest thing. Well, then uh when you said this to me, I was like, oh this is why this has to be one of the reasons why. It just makes sense. So for anyone who is interested in learning more about the zodiac and how it correlates with the Bible, where can they find your book?

SPEAKER_06 1:58:04

The book is sold on Amazon only at this point, and the link is in my bio on TikTok, or you can go straight to Amazon uh and look for what if I told you zodiac in the holy texts. And uh just a side note the book was supposed to be less about zodiac and more about proving that Jesus existed. Like that was the argument that I had that started me on all of this. When I came onto TikTok, I was deconstructed already, thank God. I didn't have to do it in public and fight all these people on it. But uh I came in with my tool belt and uh met other people and wanted to be in conversations um with people who can have conversations without being religiously offended, or we need to be able to talk about the facts and we need to be able to set our religiosity aside and look at and examine the texts and the ideas and the voices and the people and what you know what has been done, what has been taken out, what seminary isn't teaching, what you know, like even the story I heard, I you know, people back to Justin. I was listening to one of his, I think it was a video or a live or something, and a lot of people are like, well, God is evil because he sent two bears to maul 42 children, you know, uh for yelling at a prophet. So Elijah, they're telling there's 42, they call them children, they were probably whatever. Uh at 14, you're a grown man in most religions. Yeah. Um or they were whatever they were, priests maybe, or something. They could be children, even if you want, because at the end of the day, they're yelling, go up, bald man, and he gets so mad about his hairline that he sends two bears to maul children. So those are the kinds of stories you need to check and match against the zodiac, because that literally when you hear bald man or a man with long golden hair, it's usually talking about the sun. And the sun would, you know, a bald man would be the sun going down, or winter solstice, or setting sun, or what have you, where the rays would be the bright rising morning, all that. Um it it happens a lot of you know, statues will have the sun around it, and or long flowing hair at least representing it. Um so that story is zodiac. Ursa major and Ursa Minor are the two bears. Uh the 42 I haven't necessarily tried to figure out, but I am gonna guess that there's probably either some sort of sort of star cluster or uh symbology to the number 42 and the time of Ursa Major in the sky at that point. Um so we didn't have like mean prophets mauling children and you know uh it just that's zodiac speak, but but a lot of it isn't. So that's you know, that's when you s when you know this in your head and then you read again, you'll start to see it. It starts to unfold. Like this sounds a little crazy, but could it be is it tribal, is it human? It are they telling a fantastical story? Is it a miracle? Is it you know what have you? Uh can then st it's sort of just unfold. Now, if I read something, I'm like, okay, well, that part's zodiac, and that part probably is what these people did uh as a religious practice, or you know, and this is what was it's also the Bible is a book of it's an honest book about uh, you know, it's the chronicles and the records of the kings and the judges. Uh so they're they're actually chronicled records, you know, it's not all holy what have you, but they're dealing with people who are in a dealing with pantheons of gods surrounding them everywhere they go, you know. So uh, you know, kind of like now, good luck going anywhere and not being you know, someone trying to suck you into a religion. You can't go to college, you can't go, you know, there's that's their job is go out and save some, go out and by all means, yeah. Right, right. Um, so that's how they keep it going, the newborns and the converts, and nobody really takes the time to think or really, you know, like, am I part of this group? Am I born a dirty sinner? Like, do I need saving? Like, what is all this about? Who is this about? When was it written? You know, what you know, which is why I really think preterism is important, because at the very least, if someone picks it up, they can think it through like, is this in the future or the past? You know, um, before you dive all the way in. But so the the gist of my book was less about zodiac, but I had to show that that was in there to show why a lot of people have the argument. The main argument on TikTok when I joined was did Jesus exist? Or is he a myth? Or you know, did the Romans invent him, or what have you? And a lot of people have gone from Christianity to preterism to it never happened, and that's where I kind of stand out in the deconstruction space is uh yes, preterism, yes, it happened. Uh no, they weren't made up, they're not myths. They are real people with myth laid on top of their lives, just like any like Alexander the Great. Like, yeah, he this really happened, but did he fly on a horse and do, you know, like all the things? So um interesting. Yeah, so it's knowing that they really existed and almost, you know, I mean, to the point of proving it there at the end of the book, uh you can see how they tried to hide it and lose it and why and how and who would have not wanted that out there because it would kind of stop the 2,000 years of people still joining. You know, that's the church needs that story.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:56

Yeah, and so I can if you don't mind, can I read a little excerpt from your book?

SPEAKER_04 2:04:02

No, I don't mind at all.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:04

Okay, so towards the end of it, it says, Um, the sky never lied. We just stopped looking up. Gilgamesh wasn't a man who became a planet, he was a planet, Orion, that walked as a man. Every time Orion's belt cleared the horizon at winter solstice, the priest shouted, Gilgamesh has risen. The king stepped forward, put on the cedar crown, and became the constellation for that year. Same with Osiris, same with Abraham, same with Isa.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:39

That's another name for Jesus. I think that's in the Quran.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:43

Okay, and that's why Paul never mentions nails, spear, crown of thorns, earthquakes, darkness, veil torn in temple, grave clothes, woman, or pilot in his letters and sermons, because in the 5th century or 5th C 50s CE, Paul was watching Aries bleed out at the equinox and screaming, Behold the Lamb of God crucified in the heavens. He literally had no earthly crucifixion to talk about because it hadn't happened yet. Fast forward 15 years, the equinox sun is now fully inside Pisces, a flesh and blood uh Galilean uh uh royal named Isa, the name the same uh no, there's some words in here I can't even say. So the same person who uh Josephus crowned the king of the Jews um in antiquities 20 stands on the Mount of Olives in 66 CE, looks his friends dead in the eye, and says, Some of you will not taste death until you see the Son of Man coming on the clouds. Very interesting. It says he wasn't prophesying, he was live streaming.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:58

Yeah, I think that coming on the clouds throws a lot of people because now we, you, me, everybody's looking up in the sky waiting for Jesus to return on some cloud. I've pictured it several different ways in my head. Sometimes it's funny, you know. Uh they do it in the movies, like he's standing on the car. I think that type of speak is used. I okay, so if someone was gonna say prove it and show me, I'd have to go look it up. But I'm sure that in other writings, not even religious, that's how they talked about war, the clouds of war. The he was going to be returning with the horses and the war and his father's army behind him, and you will see me returning on the clouds. That's when this shit's gonna go down. This beep is gonna go down.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:39

And it says the temple's already on fire behind him, the Romans are four years away from finishing the job, the disciples lived to see every syllable come true. There was no 40-year split between Jesus returning to the one who sent him and his return on the clouds as he promised, and the road to Damascus meeting was in person. Paul, why do you persecute me? Was a real face-to-face question.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:05

So explain that there's yeah. That's a little harder to explain, and it's uh a little harder to prove, but I cannot stop thinking about it myself. Um I think that in any story where there is a time where somebody had to fall asleep or go away or go to jail or die for 40 years, and then they come back and then they're living a life. Uh, I think that's a literary tool of some sort. And I I don't think that that 40 years is there necessarily. Um I think it goes from Jesus telling his friends to not much later coming back because this war is happening, this real war. He was called the king of the Jews hundreds of times, but no one admits that he was really an earthly king uh of a group of Jews. So either he is or isn't, but this war is not someone floating down from the clouds, it's the Roman war that happened already. So they did see him return, you know, and he didn't like.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:14

So you do think that Paul and Jesus did meet.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:16

I do think they did. I think Yeah. I do. I don't think that Paul joined the I don't think he got in. I don't think he he might have heard some of the fringe teaching, but he didn't make the cut, and he's a little bitter. Uh because I think perhaps his brother, you know, when Judas dies, they're picking another disciple out of two people. I forget, maybe one of them's named Matthias or something, and uh I think that's that's uh it might be a relative of Paul or something. Anyway, he's he's obviously on the outside. He knows some stuff, he's against some stuff, he's talking about them. You know, he uses words like fornicators and uh he's always talking about this group of people, you know, the long hairs and eating with women and uh what have you. So he's he's got a different message. He has his own his own gospel that you know he he's it's barely recognizable to anybody, so he gets arrested for it. Anyway, so yeah, I think that what it's a literary tool. This 40-year thing is weird, and when you read my book, you will see how it lines up, and when you squash that, everything else lines up, the true history comes out. You can find things in outside history, um, but you have to be looking in the right times and places for that to happen.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:47

Well, I think this was if I'm right. Yeah, if you're right. Yep, of course. And I like that you were able to say that because you, you know, you're you're just providing the evidence that you found, and people can come to their conclusions.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:02

I used to think I used to think that I was right as a Christian. I was so right, you could never change my mind, you could not prove otherwise, I was right. And then I learned that I wasn't, and that is devastating. I was not right. And now I'm at the point where even with what I think I've learned, I still don't feel like I know everything and could be wrong about a few things because I'm never gonna think I totally figured this out ever again, you know. When I think of how long that I literally had a Christian belief system where this is true and that is couldn't be this and that, that, and I'd have to treat them this way and believe that about those people, and you couldn't have told me I was wrong. You could try, but you couldn't, you know. So I've learned that I might not be right, and that's okay, but I'm more right than I was before, and I'm happy with progress.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:55

So yes, yes. Well, I think this has been a great conversation, and um, for anyone listening that wants to get Indy's book and read for yourself, um, get it on Amazon, guys. That's where it's at. And it like I said, I'm not a huge reader. This is a quick read. So um, if I can read it, anyone can read it.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:20

If I can write it, you can read it. Because it wasn't even gonna be a book. It was a couple of notes I jotted down.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:27

I love it.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:28

Yeah. Well, I had fun and thank you. You were so kind. You you've been my you're my first podcast. Oh only my second Zoom meeting, and the first one was a funeral, and this was way better than that.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:41

So yes. Yes. Well, thank God. I mean, I'm glad that I'm glad that I mean I thought so.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:48

I hope the listeners agree, but but I thank you for reading my book. I I honestly appreciate your time and your open mindedness to even Got it and thank you for having me on. And I had a great time. I think you're wonderful. I enjoy your show.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:06

And thanks.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:08

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:09

Yeah, and thanks for coming on. It was fun.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:12

I had fun.