Reflection on 29 Years

Dr. Jon Brunner joins Maggie and John to discuss his retirement and his nearly 29 years of service at FGCU. Brunner, though, places to focus on students and their holistic health in this episode, encouraging all faculty and staff to keep being student-centered in higher education.  

Theme music composed, performed and produced by James Husni.

Adjunct Nation is a collaborative podcast under the auspices of The Lucas Center for Faculty Development at FGCU. You can learn more by clicking on this link:

https://www.fgcu.edu/lucascenter/

Transcript

Welcome to the Adjunct Files.
We're a growing, diverse community who face challenging work in an ever-changing, higher
education landscape.
Your co-hosts for this podcast are with you in this.
I'm John Roth, Adjuncts since 2015 and now a coordinator for Adjunct Faculty at Florida
Gulf Coast University.
I'm Maggie Hohne, Adjunct since 2022 and currently work in the Office of First Year Seminars.
Together we hope to have conversations to empower, support, and elevate Adjunct Faculty.
This conversation today is one to do just that.
Alright, welcome back.
Maggie, how you doing?
I'm doing great.
I'm ready for this sunny weather to come back.
Yeah, we're in a cloudy, rainy spell here in Florida.
It's called Liquid Sunshine.
Is it really?
Yeah.
I've never heard of that.
Oh, well, maybe that's when I lived in Louisiana at LSU.
We had a lot of liquid sunshine and we were living in a swamp.
So it rained 60, 70 inches a year there.
Wow.
Yeah, and anyway.
But I'm doing great.
Good.
How are you?
Good.
Hangin' in there.
I'm excited.
We've got lots of surprises, I think.
Dr. Bergerson, part of political science, he actually was full-time faculty here.
He's got quite the story and now has retired, I guess, that we would call it that.
Quote, unquote.
Yeah, but boy, we just learned a lot while we were just getting ready for this podcast.
I'm very excited for today's conversation.
Yeah.
Dr. Bergerson, why don't you just share a little about your story, how you ended up
at Florida Gulf Coast University, but I guess which starts somewhere when you were
born in New York, Chicago.
I was, well, thank you for having me and it's nice to be here back on campus, I guess.
I'm originally from a real small town east of Chicago, about 55 miles.
The metropolis of 35,000 was Michigan City, Indiana, which is right on the Indiana-Michigan
border.
I grew up, though, in a little Berg next to it called Wong Beach, Indiana, which was
right on the shores of Lake Michigan and had really an idyllic childhood.
I went to a private boarding school for high school, which was a pretty tough experience
for me anyway.
I happen to be one of seven children.
And anyway, I had a great experience, a great academic career.
Started out at Southeast Missouri State University in 1968.
I went from the Democratic National Convention in Chicago to Cape Girard, Missouri.
Okay, that was a shock.
Well, it was a cultural shock, but for sure.
Were you a convention delegate for the...?
No, no.
I was an outside observer.
Oh, and you didn't get beat up?
No, I did not get beat up.
But I could tell I was there the weekend before Michigan City is just 50 miles east
of Chicago, and they have an electric train.
And you ran on a regular half hour, 45 minute basis.
And so I wanted to go in a couple of friends and I went in to see what was going on for
the weekend.
And we could really sense the tension, the police were at every corner.
And if we didn't move exactly when the street light turned green, we all...
Billy clubs were out and we could sense that there were problems about to arise.
It just was...
You could feel the tension.
Unsettling.
Yeah, really unsettling.
I thought, oh boy, wait for the real thing to start.
Anyway, I was there on a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday before the convention, because I
had some friends I stayed with in Chicago.
And then on Monday, I went...
And the actual starting of it, I went to Cape Toronto for my first teaching position.
Wow.
Maggie, yeah, I know.
That's a full weekend.
This was well before your time.
Yes.
Yeah, but it's such a pivotal moment in the history of American politics.
So you were interested in politics all the way through, I guess.
Yeah, I really was.
My family was engaged in at least observing and practicing politics.
I had a very good friend who...
I had what would be called today an internship with the original Mayor Daily in the city of
Chicago, which I could commute back and forth.
The train ride was about 45 minutes to an hour, depending upon traffic.
And so I really was attuned in politics and was just kind of ingrained in our family,
as I mentioned, or released earlier, that I have a brother who's a judge and a sister
who is a political reporter for NBC in Chicago.
So that's just part of our...
We kind of felt like it was our obligation to be civic-minded, civic-oriented.
And in my senior year in high school, I did my senior project onto the 1960 presidential
election.
Oh, wow.
And so I went from there to where I am now, 50, almost 60, some years later.
So Peter, what are thanksgivings like in your family growing up with all of this political
stuff going on?
Well, some years they were very short and others long, even though that we were active,
we still involved in politics.
We all weren't in the same pew.
And that's still the case, I guess.
But yeah, our family was pretty close, frankly, for seven diverse individuals.
Yeah, it still is.
I'll be going back over for the Fourth of July, and there's a whole host of different
political...
It's a rainbow perspective of political values and ideologies.
Well that's great.
I think that's a good kind of segue to what we want to discuss, because I think you had
brought up the idea that right now there's such polarization in the United States.
Do you think it's worse than any time in your lifetime that you can think of, or is it similar
to the late 60s, early 70s?
Yeah, I think at least in my experience in the classroom, at least limited to the classroom,
and even in social situations, especially in politics, the best that I've tried to keep
it at a level of policy as opposed to personality.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's an important one.
But yeah, I have never experienced it.
When I first started teaching in 1968, it was easily to openly discuss any point of view
without any fear of animosity or offending people.
As I mentioned earlier, I had Rush Limbaugh in class, and he and I didn't agree, but we
agreed to disagree, and we ended up being pretty good friends.
I knew him very well and knew his family very well, and we would discuss things back and
policies back and forth, and that's something I think is lost today.
Yeah, yeah, CMO.
South Eastern Missouri.
Yeah, southeast Missouri.
Southeast Missouri State, yeah.
It's an interesting area.
I told Maggie, my father grew up outside of Cape Girardo, and we'd drive through Cape
to get to Scott City, Ilmo.
It's a twin, I don't know how it got Scott City, Ilmo.
But anyways, and they lived on a farm outside, so I was in that area quite a bit growing
up as a child.
It's an unusual environment for a university in one sense.
Yeah, it is.
But it really is a, I think, a really significant asset to southeast Missouri.
As well as all of Missouri, at least when I was there, there was about half of the students
came from the area, regional area of what is known as the Boot Hill, and then about half
would come from St. Louis area.
So there was, and there were two really, that's two really different cultures.
I would say.
Yeah.
Cape Girardo on their municipal grounds, remember the City Hall is they have a memorial
for Confederate soldiers.
And so they still have a lot of favoritism orientation towards the south, and suppose
where St. Louis, of course, is a much more of a metropolitan, cosmopolitan, politically
diverse area where Cape Girardo is probably 80%.
When I went, it was somewhat of a swing area, and now it's just heavily Republican.
In fact, there was an article about chemistry, which is just down the road in the front
page of the New York Times Sunday about an immigration issue, and how it has torn this
little town of Chemit apart anyway.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
We're seeing this is, at least in the classroom, it's become more and more difficult to actually,
and you are teaching the article.
Still.
Yeah.
I taught campaigns and elections last fall here.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
How was that during the election?
It was good.
Well, it was a course that I love.
I mean, I've taught it about 50 years, and so every election, there's a government group
of people.
It could be some of the things that we've done.
But first of all, obviously, I enjoyed it very much.
You know, political science is not only a professional inquiry for me, but it's an
ad vocation.
I follow it very closely in addition what's going on on a daily basis.
But yeah, I try to keep the personalities, again, out of the debate and discussion in
the last few years, and I try to focus on some of the issues of, for example, one
of the issues.
And I'm not so sure it's really terribly contentious, but at least it opens the door
for discussion, is that we oftentimes start the class with the discussion of the electoral
college and the pros and cons of the electoral college.
And so I would have a group of students who would read articles of reasons why we have
it and why we should keep it.
And then another group that is opposed to it, and each of them would make a presentation
– oh, usually at 10 minutes or so.
Then I would ask certain questions.
The other side would make their presentation.
I would ask them questions, and then each other would challenge the group so that we would
try to – I think that the important way of learning is to be active as much as you
can be with the students and have them think about what their thoughts are having read
something and then make them think about it and defend it.
And so that was one way that I would approach.
So I didn't get into the issue of Biden, Harris, or Trump.
I mean, I did.
I got into their policies, but as opposed to their personalities.
No, because then you would lose control of the class right away.
It did happen a couple of times.
And I – well, to be honest.
Well, it's kind of hard because I think what I've seen as a shift as well, personality
has taken over politics.
Celebrity politics.
There are people who are just using it as a platform.
In a paycheck.
Yeah.
And it's just fascinating how celebrity culture has taken over almost every aspect of our
society.
Yeah, exactly.
And even the smallest events or even athletic events.
You know, we're here in the midst of the NBA's payoff.
You know, it's not only the basketball team and the plane that gets the importance, but
it's the sideline, you know, personalities that show up.
So yeah, and that's absolutely the case with politics for sure.
So I have a question.
You know, you said when you originally had started teaching that – I don't want
to say it was a lot easier, but it was almost easier to have these kind of conversations
in a classroom setting.
When did you notice that shift where it was policy versus personality?
And things kind of started getting messy.
Yeah, I would say maybe 10 years ago or so.
Okay.
So recently.
Yeah, fairly recently.
Yeah, when I started, all the students really loved to have the debate and challenge.
And you know what?
I wanted them to challenge me.
And so I would play the Devil's Advocate.
I'm sure they loved that.
And so when the issues came up, you know, the first thing I learned about teaching is
you have to learn the sense and the atmosphere of the students in the classroom.
You know, it's hard to measure, but you can feel it and you know it.
And so I would immediately, regardless of whatever the issue was, I would always had
to take the other side.
And that really then urged them to really get – got them.
In the ones – you know, every class, not everyone wants to talk.
Right.
You know, that is – but you know, if you could get four or five, eight to ten out
of the 30 students, that really adds to – and then the students are paying attention.
And anyway.
So yeah, that – and the – yeah, I would say 10 years ago.
The mood really changed.
How would you describe the mood today then?
Like, what are you observing in your classes that – yeah, what's it like?
Well, a number of things I think.
One is that there's a general climate, first of all, that there have to, you know, to
deal with – and this is the called a woke, anti-woke culture that permeates the classroom,
I think.
And so that's – they're coming in with this particular knowledge.
Another is that they are afraid that if they speak out, they're going to hurt their grade.
And I try to emphasize that that is not going to have any – you know, assuming you don't
have some completely, you know, off the –
As long as you're respectful and –
Yeah, right.
And I always emphasize that.
And that was particularly the case in the campaigns and elections course that I taught.
Anyway.
But it – so the students are more worried about grades now than I have ever seen in the
past.
One, another is that the source of information where the students are getting – they have
divided themselves oftentimes into two camps, rather a red or blue.
And that's where they're getting their information from.
And subsequently, that justifies that their position and tried to get them to change is
difficult.
And so one of the first things that I always do, regardless of what position they're
at, is I always ask them, well, where did you get this information from?
And is it true?
Or is it –
Can other sources verify this?
Yeah, right.
Is it verifiable?
It's not just a tweet.
Yeah, exactly.
Anyway, so yeah, that is one of the things that I try to establish in the classroom
is some – and state of the policy, ask them to justify it, ask them to explain it.
But I'm willing to listen to whatever they have to say about the particular issue.
And some of the things – one of the things, of course, we talk about is the qualifications
to start with the being president.
And so I'll raise the question is, there is no age ceiling.
And should there be an age ceiling?
And of course, with the young students, they always say, yes, I say, now, wait a minute,
or, you know, be careful who you're looking at and walking.
Right.
But as you're sitting in front of them.
I want to – the reason I do that is I want them to be – I want them to be light, to
be at first to be light.
But then bring out, you know, I think if they see that I'm willing to and open to discussion,
and they're freer, they feel freer to – but that, you know, to answer your question,
that's the first thing that they have to trust me.
And you have to set the environment that, you know, it's a politically neutral zone
in the classroom that they're not going to be penalized because the students really
are grade conscious.
There's a lot writing on grades now.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And getting ready for just discussing this with you, Peter, I did look up a few articles.
The Pew Research, I think, has done something pretty good.
It's from 2023.
I'll put it in the notes.
But their overall standing was that their observation was Americans' feelings about
politics, polarization, and the tone of political discourse in our country.
Asked to describe U.S. political politics these days, about eight in ten Americans respond
with a negative word or phrase.
Divisive, corrupt, messy, are among the words that are most frequently used.
They said, majorities of Americans are always or often exhausted and angry when thinking
about it now.
They just don't even want to get into it anymore.
And then the exhaustion and anger is the highest among those who are most politically engaged.
So that's fascinating.
And overwhelming majorities say political debate in the U.S. has become less respectful,
fact-based than in the past.
These in both parties say disagreements between Republicans and Democrats get too much attention.
So it's the tribalism, us versus them.
It's kind of like almost a fan base more than...
We're all on the same team.
Yeah.
Well, supposedly we're all Americans, and I don't seem the enemy anyway.
Yeah.
Another podcast.
Yeah, maybe.
Americans increasingly say political conversations with people they disagree with are stressful
and frustrating.
I agree.
Yeah.
So all of this, just as confirming what you're seeing in the classroom, it's probably a microcosm
of our society.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And it's become, going back to an earlier discussion, it becomes the personality aspect
of it.
And one of the things at least I have noticed is that the movement away from support for
the two political parties, in other words, that the fastest growing political party is
none.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Everybody's over it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, they don't want to discuss it.
I'm a member of a couple of social groups, and one of them just openly forbids talking
about politics, you know.
And of course they know who I...
What my background...
What your life's work has been.
Yeah.
And the other group that I...
Another group that I'm associated with or involved somewhat is...
I don't want to participate in that.
Yeah.
I want to maintain the friendship or the association I have, but they're the ones that really...
The Pew study really hits right on the head, you know.
When they do make comments, I try to ask them, where do they get their information?
And that pretty well tells me where they're coming from.
Where they are.
Or if they say that, well, we're spending too much money here or too much money there,
I said, well, where would you cut?
Yeah.
Or everyone feels entitled now.
And I said, well, that's what voting does.
Voting entitles people to have a voice and have some interest in the political process
and public policy.
Well, anyway, I try to be diplomatic about it if I can.
I have a son who's a diplomat.
Oh, where is he at?
He is a Foreign Service Officer in Africa.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, he works in Mozambique at the embassy in Mozambique.
Wow.
That's awesome.
And his former assignment was China, which you want to hear about?
Our next podcast.
Yeah.
You know, one of the things that just seems maybe a larger picture that politics is a
case study for it.
But the idea right now it seems most students and most people in America are struggling
with conflict.
And when people disagree, how to work through conflict.
Especially when they're friends and family disagree.
I know like, granted, this is the age of social media.
So everybody's posting.
Oh, this happened and my mom said this.
I'm not talking to her ever again.
We're cut off.
I guess my question is, has it always been like that in politics?
Like this unhinged with people not having open dialogues in.
I can respect you as a person and not agree with your political viewpoint.
Like me personally, it's to me, it's two different things.
But when does that shift?
Is that also in the past 10 years that you've seen?
Or has it always been here?
And I just had a bit of tension.
I first felt that way or observed it, I guess, during the Vietnam War.
Okay.
So the Vietnam War really put people into two camps particularly.
And I think, well, at least for me and the observance for me, it was, you know, love it
or leave it on one side.
And the other side.
And I think ever since then, the personality side of issues became more important than
the policy issues.
And so as soon as public policy turns into the personality differences, that's where
the two camps, and they withdraw.
Okay.
And there's a lot of less discussion.
And then it's just, and like with the siloing of media these days in the sense of, I can
just find stuff that agrees with me more or less.
I think people are looking more for affirmation than they are information.
Just like confirmation about it.
Yeah.
And the algorithms help with that.
Right.
It will give you what you want.
So that's part of it.
And then because we're always mediated through some screen or some non-like in person, we
don't know how to handle a conflict with someone else.
And that becomes problematic.
I just think sometimes we should have just a course at the university on conflict resolution
and how to handle interpersonal conflict because everybody faces it and then use politics,
religion, other area sports, you name it.
Where you're all going to have to use?
The economics.
The economics.
All of these areas.
But what's really behind it is we don't know how to handle interpersonal conflict, let
alone understanding larger group conflict.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
There has to be this reconciliation in accepting other people's points of view.
And having the, well, as I said earlier, Rush Limbaugh was one of my students.
And we disagreed, but we were friends.
We got along perfectly well on discussing lots of other things.
And we would discuss and challenge each other.
But you could see as human, human inness in front of you.
Because humanity was there.
It's not like you treated him like a thing or an object.
Yeah.
Right.
I think that's what it's turned into for most people.
Yeah.
That's really is the case.
So how do you, what happened by the end of the class, what campaigns, whatever class
you're teaching, Peter, what do you hope the students go away with or how, how maybe has
their mindset or perspective changed that you're hoping?
That's a great question.
Each class, I'd like to think to myself, I've taught for 55 years, but I have 55 years of
experience, not 54 years repeated, one year repeated 54 times.
And so each class, you know, I first of all, I have to get a sense of the class, as
I said, and that takes maybe a week or so.
But a combination of things, one, the substance matter really is a driven for me.
So that they know the fundamentals of campaigns and elections.
They know the fundamentals of the American system of government.
And that they also come away thinking about the institutions of government and how they
function or perhaps don't function.
Those are some of the things that I have.
And also, I hope to at least try to create some camaraderie within the classroom by having
group assignments, small groups, and that they would make presentations and they then
would discuss issues together.
And so, you know, some courses, I emphasize certain things more than others because there
seems to be more interest in going in that direction.
And I also think that there should be some degree, a very high degree, frankly, of confidence
in our system, even with the faults.
In other words, I think that's part of my responsibility is that we have a great system,
not lots of imperfect aspects to it, but that they will be citizens, responsible citizens.
Those are the things that I hope to accomplish.
So, subject matter.
And then in the additional process, be willing to, when they have something to say that they
have some support for it.
In I have writing assignments every week, they're required to have a bibliography and quotes
so that they don't just make wild accusations.
And so there's that element to it as well, writing to it, a thoughtful summary and conclusion
that's based on the body of their presence.
Even if it's a two-page paper, they have to have a bibliography, they have to have citations
and they have to come to some conclusion that's based on what they have presented.
That sounds very...
Is this an upper level course?
You know, I do it in...
Well, yeah, that you're pretty much...
I teach only freshmen so I can only imagine.
Yeah, they are.
I should preface that I teach graduate students or juniors or seniors.
Okay.
Yeah.
And they know from the start that those are the ground rules to do well in the class.
Well, should be, right?
It's called scholarship.
Yeah, right.
In theory.
Yeah.
So...
In theory.
So...
You got any...
Does this bring up questions for you all of this stuff?
It does very much so.
Very much.
I'm just so interested in this and these are conversations that we've kind of tested
to this whole time.
We don't have every day.
Right.
And we so need to...
We do.
And we need to bring students to a civic literacy how they can discuss issues in our
society like this.
Right.
And civil discourse workshop or something like that?
Not course, but like a workshop.
Didn't you do that?
A civil discourse?
Well, a provost series.
Yeah.
Well, maybe the provost series might do that, but I'm not familiar with it.
Okay.
I think we might have done one in the past.
We have.
I use Unify America, which is something maybe to look at.
I don't know if you've seen it.
It's where students take a kind of a little test, if you want to say, to figure out where
they're kind of on the spectrum in politics.
They are then matched with somebody else on a different part across the nation.
And then they have this discussion online face to face over it.
85% of the students come away saying that was really good and we agree on more than
we actually disagreed on.
I thought we would be all over the place.
And it does kind of bring us a little.
We're not as polarized as we think we are.
We can take some of the emotion and personality out.
And I'm wondering if the way to do that is really just being intentional about setting
the stage because if I had to go and instruct a class of people on politics, that makes
me want to poop my pants.
So what would you do, Maggie?
I would call Dr. Burderson and be like, please help me and mentor me because I'm very,
very scared.
But I think I do a lot on, first a lot of self reflection.
What do I believe in educating myself on both sides?
Because I especially like when you say you play devil's advocate, right?
Because then it makes everybody feel included, right?
I've been in some classrooms where it just feels like it's one side being beaten to
your head and everybody in the class is just kind of like, we're here for a grade,
like you said.
So hearing both sides but setting those expectations at the beginning.
Maybe some ground rules.
Yeah, you're talking about a covenant.
I do in my class.
I always do expectations on the first week, expectations of what do you expect from yourself
out of this class?
Show up.
Yeah, what about your peers?
And what do you expect from me as an instructor?
One student just said, don't be lame.
I said, I'll do my best.
That's a little generic, isn't it?
Yeah.
But then another student was just listen to everybody's perspectives, right?
Everybody comes from different backgrounds.
Things have impacted everybody in such a different way.
So really just creating that culture of respect.
And everybody in this room is a part of the FGCU community.
So just remember, we're going to be looking at each other for the next 16 weeks as well.
We're not free.
This isn't like a one and done.
Yeah.
So also, if you want to build that civility and respect, like it also happens outside
the classroom too.
And what happens in the classroom?
I'm not saying you can't talk about what we talk about in class, but I'll say, oh my
gosh, do my roommate.
Can you believe that John said that's quite a thing in class?
That's triangulation.
That's looking for affirmation again.
Right, exactly.
So it's also with gossip is.
So also acknowledging that at the beginning.
And it becomes divisive.
Right.
But if you say, I know it's so fun and you want to tell all your little cranes and it's
so exciting.
But imagine if somebody's talking about you like that.
And with what you genuinely believe.
Music for the adjunct.
So just kind of bringing it back to that grounding of culture and respect.
Everybody is a human being.
Right.
Like you're not special.
Yeah.
One of the things that we're all in the same boat gear.
Yeah.
One of the things that I do in all my classes, you know, is the first week they have to
have a enrollment curve.
Right.
And so what I have is right on one day.
Autobiography.
It's a whole group.
And explain, you know, who they are, where they're from, what's their background, what
are their hobbies, how are they in the class?
Yeah.
And that way I also get a feel of who I'm dealing with.
Exactly.
You're teaching to the specific students.
Yeah.
Right.
And they're obviously seeing me and they know who or at least they can get you up on
mine.
And they're saying, oh, we got grandpa here.
But you're a legend.
You know, I do.
Anyway, and that way I get a sense.
And there's a big difference between students who are first generation college students and
those who and those who come from a rural or small towns here in Florida versus maybe
from a tenetpa, Miami, Orlando area.
And so that adds to the cultural factor.
I really am interested in the culture that they bring.
And that has an impact on how I teach and what I teach and the way the questions that
I ask.
Have you always taught like that?
Ask students like where, just so you have a sense.
So I sure.
Yeah.
I have a sense.
I also read them through the semester.
Just as a refresher.
Yeah.
And then at the end, what I do is I also read them again.
And if they have something, oh, gee, I want to go to law school.
I hope to be working at the State Department.
I always write a note to them at the end of the semester that, well, I hope that this
course has led you to X, Y, or Z.
And if I can help you, let me know.
Wow.
That's very kind.
You know, the thing I think that's probably the best in the course, though, is just learning
more like learning about his lived experiences.
Yeah.
Because the teacher teaches his life in a sense.
I mean, it's and wow, what a rich experience you've had, Peter.
I want to take your classes now.
No, I think I want to audit it too.
I really have.
I have absolutely loved it.
And then that's why I like to be an adjunct.
You know, it borders on pro bono work, doesn't it?
You are a civil servant.
I'm not.
It's that I enjoy the students, first of all.
And I enjoy the subject matter.
Keeps you young.
Yeah, it does.
It keeps me young.
And the students, I really, I like to get to know them.
And that's why I have this for first week exercise.
So I get to know them and who they are.
And I'm teaching students about politics and political science and public policy.
I'm not, you know, so in order to be successful, you have to melt those two.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'm hoping that they actually realize the wealth of the person in front of them.
And the opportunity.
Yeah.
I just, I get a feeling at time, maybe because I'm getting older now, maybe.
Getting more reflective.
Well, the idea is we want to give back the older we are.
We want to leave a legacy of some type.
And I think, Peter, you're doing that in a lot of ways.
But also, I just get a feeling I've seen a lot of younger, you know, college students
and all that they don't have quite, you know, they're missing mentors.
They're missing models.
They're missing.
They don't realize the value of other generations because they're just caught up in the pop culture
moment and their peers.
And it's like, I just, youth is wasted on the young.
Wasn't that said by somebody?
I can't remember who.
And it's just like, man, you just realize you've got opportunity with Peter to really,
like probably go see him, talk to him outside of class, just learn.
I really encourage that.
In fact, one of the things that one of the biggest changes that I've experienced over
my years is the role of the internet and computers.
And even though I have office hours, then I encourage people to come.
That's one of the things that, you know, that's how frankly I got to know Russian and ball
as well.
I've been fortunate to have those who have become lieutenant governors and diplomats
and things.
And with the odd event of the computers, you've lost that personal interaction.
And that's what...
I think it's why that's so hard to have conversations.
Because I have to look at you and feel your energy.
Well, but it also is that's where I think the emotional maturing happened in interpersonal
relationships.
Because I'm not going to say the same thing to your face that I would just post online
where I'll never see you.
We can stay immature by just being in front of a screen all the time.
But when you are working with people, appreciating them, seeing the nuance, the fullness of the
human experience in front of you and realizing they're just like you in a lot of ways and
a value just like you.
That changes things dramatically.
And I think people grow up a lot through those things.
I don't grow up by just reading books or watching TikTok videos or whatever.
You have to experience it.
And sometimes it's the school of hard knocks, right?
Yeah.
It's going through difficult times and then having people to be with you during them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Peter, this has been just amazing.
Well, can we have you back for 10 more episodes?
I have happy to.
I'm happy to.
You know, I really enjoy it.
I do.
It's just thrilled to do it.
Cool.
What do you teach in this fall?
I'm not just fall.
What?
No.
At least I'm on standby.
Okay.
But he's in the wings.
I, in the spring.
In the spring, what are you teaching?
I'm teaching the graduate capstone course.
And I enjoy that too.
That's a totally different situation.
It's almost all online.
And so my job there is really more of a guidance and give them directions and thoughts about,
you know, what's their project, the timeline of the project, what's the expectation, the
quality of the writing, and then at the end, an oral presentation about it.
So, yeah, I'm not going to be directly in the classroom.
Oh, that's, unless I can sucker him into teaching at first your seminars.
Right.
Which would be kind of cool.
You hold different experience, but you could just pick your topic.
And then you can teach only 18 and 19 year olds.
It will be the opposite end of the spectrum for you.
But I think it'd be fantastic.
I haven't done that in so long.
But I, you know, I, I, I, I think it would be invaluable.
And I think that you would be fantastic.
You're engaging.
You can, you have such a worldview of like politics.
It's impact.
You've worked in different areas and locations around the country that have influenced your
experience.
And these students come from all over the world.
We have international students and stay out of state.
I think that taking class even if they only see you once a week for 50 minutes, it's
well worth it.
And I spent only one 50 minutes session with you.
And I'm like, oh my God, can I talk to him again soon?
I know.
Isn't it great?
Yeah, I've had a great experience.
I've taught in all of Western Europe, our lecture.
Wow.
That's another podcast.
I could lecture in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
Wow.
In Asia, Vietnam.
And I teach a course on Vietnam too.
I mean, I'm sorry, I teach a course on Asia, but I've been to Vietnam several times.
My daughter-in-law is from Asia.
Really?
Yeah, she's from Vietnam, Illinois.
That's amazing.
And I, just a class on the Vietnam War and Vietnam and just that pivotal moment and
how it compares to other things in our history, that would be a wonderful one.
I think students need to learn what the heck was going on with all of that.
How did we end up here?
That could be your class.
Why are we here?
Yeah.
So I really have.
I've met the luckiest guy you've met, at least I feel like I am, and married 53 years
as of Monday.
Wow.
Oh my gosh, congratulations to you too.
You got married at 15.
Yeah.
You look great.
Oh, thanks.
And yeah, I had so many great experiences.
The lecturing at inauguration was, I lectured at George H. W. Bush's inauguration.
Wow.
And at Bill Clinton's inauguration as well as several national conventions.
So, yeah.
One of the things I guess I learned early on is to take advantage of those things that
were offered.
Right.
You know, like when I got the message from you guys that were interested, I said, you
know, I'd love to be able to share my experiences that I've had.
So.
This has been great.
Yeah.
And now you've got another offer from Maggie.
So.
Calling all adjuncts.
So Maggie, I would email him kind of more information than that.
Yes, I will.
Because I think that would be really cool.
Well, thanks.
Yeah.
You can always turn me down, but at least read my email, please.
Okay.
Yeah, sure.
I do.
Well, Dr. Bergerson, thank you so much.
Oh, thanks for having me.
My God.
It's been fascinating.
My pleasure.
You know, I haven't learned a lot.
Me too.
I want to do almost like a politics 101 series with you.
And I want to thank you for our students and even just like faculty and staff that want
to learn, but just what are the basics non personality?
What are we working with here?
How do we talk about it?
I think that'd be really good.
That would be good.
You know, maybe good would be is if a team taught something, you know, that I could be,
you know, you or and or the students could ask questions.
And I could provide perhaps the constitutional perspective.
If it dealt with something that was, you know, impeachment or whatever, you know, and not
that that's on my mind.
No, but we've been through a few of those recently or the students.
Yeah.
And that would be something that I think would be rewarding for the so that they knew
in advance to maybe they had readings or whatever.
Right.
Absolutely.
There would be a lot of.
There would be instead of a lecture.
I mean, I could lecture in in response to questions.
Questions.
You know, that might be a way of.
Yeah.
Yeah, I could call.
It's just so fascinating.
There's so much to learn.
And I mean, I'm 28.
And when you all were talking about 1968, I was like, I, but what was going on then?
I wasn't here.
Well, now knowing that that is such a.
Yes.
Capital full promote.
68, 72 that whole era.
Yeah.
But like, I have no idea.
That's that wasn't a big focus in my public school system education.
So lots of opportunity.
I would say that that and and today, like every 50 years or so, you can kind of see
these types of events and then every 100 years to you can look back and go like,
we went through this in the 20s and 30.
That looks familiar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
So well, this has been great.
Thank you, Maggie.
Thank you, Dr. Berlison.
Thank you guys for having me.
Yeah.
Peter, it's been wonderful.
Y'all, we're going to sign off on this one, but you might be hearing from Peter in the
future.
You will be.
Yeah.
Check him out.
What a wealth we have in adjunct faculty, someone who was full time here, who was full
time at CMO and who has had a department chair.
Yeah, everything and still given back.
So thank you so much.
Y'all enjoy this ad adjunct files episode and we'll see you next time.
Bye, y'all.