S01-E07 - From Taxman to Television: Steve Dawson's Journey

Steve Dawson's journey from tax accountant to acclaimed sports broadcaster to leadership coach exemplifies the transformative power of aligning work with your natural talents. Before becoming a household name across Asia through ESPN, Star Sports, and Fox Sports Asia, Steve made the difficult decision to walk away from accounting after 11 years; a career he had pursued partly to make his father proud but one where he never quite found his stride.

The magic happened when Steve discovered broadcasting, where his natural communication abilities, passion for sports, and work ethic created the perfect foundation for success. "Suddenly doors opened," Steve explains. "What unlocked my power within was doing something I was good at." His approach to live television - remaining composed under pressure, focusing only on his responsibilities, and maintaining professional boundaries with celebrity interviewees offers masterclasses in presence and poise applicable far beyond broadcasting.

One of the most valuable insights Steve shares comes from years of interviewing sporting legends. Rather than approaching celebrities as a "fanboy," Steve maintained professional respect and focus, a strategy that once resulted in Manny Pacquiao asking him for a photo, rather than the other way around. This philosophy of respecting boundaries whilst delivering excellence creates authentic connections that no amount of fawning admiration could achieve.

Now, as a leadership coach through his company CoachSD.com, Steve helps professionals overcome communication blind spots, particularly the unconscious assumption that audiences possess the same knowledge as presenters. "If you're speaking to someone and explaining something, it's because they don't know the things you know," he emphasises, highlighting how crucial proper scene-setting is for effective communication.

Whether you're contemplating a career pivot, looking to improve your communication skills, or simply seeking to unlock more of your potential, Steve's experiences offer a roadmap for finding fulfilment through work that leverages your inherent strengths. 

Tune in for an inspiring conversation that will leave you equipped with the tools to lead with confidence, overcome obstacles and unlock The Power Within

email us at: info@motivuscoaching.com

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Transcript

Introducing Steve Dawson

Keith 0:00

Welcome to the Power Within the podcast, where we explore leadership, personal growth and the dynamics that shape success. I'm Keith Power, and each week I sit down with inspiring individuals who share insights on leading with impact, building resilience and unlocking potential. On leading with impact, building resilience and unlocking potential. Through their experiences, we'll uncover the mindset and strategies that drive meaningful growth. Whether you're looking to evolve as a leader or gain new perspectives, this podcast is here to guide you. Today, I'm delighted to welcome Steve Dawson a voice and face that many across Asia will recognise from his years as a television presenter for ESPN, Star Sports and Fox Sports Asia as we explore more stories of resilience, growth and the power of determination.

Keith 0:59

Before anchoring global sporting events, Steve started out as a tax accountant in his native UK, then pivoted into journalism with Singapore Press Holdings before building a remarkable career in broadcasting. Over the years, he's interviewed legends, covered global events and mastered the art of compelling storytelling. But today Steve is channeling all those experiences into a new role, one of coach and mentor, through his work at CoachSDcom, where he supports professionals in finding clarity, confidence and presence. In this episode, we'll explore Steve's unique transitions from finance to front of camera, to leadership coaching, and how he stayed grounded, curious and continually evolving along the way. Welcome to the Power Within, Steve. Thank you, Keith, Very nice to be here. Bit of a reversal of roles for you, right.

Steve 2:00

A little bit. I mean, I've been on this end of the table, as it were, a few times and I enjoy it. You know why? Because the pressure's off me. You're going to ask me questions about me. I know quite a lot about me, so all I need to do is just respond. I know the pressure's on you, so I'm just going to push all that pressure over accountant to journalist, broadcaster and now leadership coach. What inspired these transitions?

Keith 2:19

And how did you navigate such big career shifts?

Steve 2:43

because I wasn't a very good accountant. I mean, I was pretty good at some aspects of it, but they were all soft skills. You know, I could develop relationships with clients, I was a good writer, good communicator. But you need more than that. To be an accountant, you need to be technically good, and I just don't have the. I didn't have the drive and I don't think I had the brain either to compete with some of the best well, even some of the more moderate accountants out there, and and I and I I needed to change.

Steve 3:12

I was quite stimulated by that career and I was proud of it as well, because it was very much the sort of thing that I think my father would have wanted me to get into, and he he he witnessed that, although I think he also witnessed them was probably aware of the fact that I was stumbling somewhat.

Steve 3:25

I got, I got my professional qualification, which which was a great thing, but I didn't move up the hierarchy at the speed that I would have liked, and I think he could probably detect that, and everything that came afterwards was after my dad passed away, so so that's a bit of a shame, but it was, um, it was desperation initially, and then after that, it was just a question of um seeing opportunities or being shown opportunities okay and also the delight of actually finally being quite good at something that people were paying me money for, and and I think that provides its own incentive, doesn't it as well, of course, if you think you're worthy of being there and you're not an imposter, then that makes everything all the better and encourages you to continue and develop.

Steve 4:19

I think.

Keith 4:19

Having said that, imposter syndrome is present for a lot of us. Yeah, perhaps that was the case in your accounting days. The fact that you passed your accountancy exams, that is under a severe pressure on its own right yeah, yeah, so was it more the drive, the motivation of it, rather than you just being too humble about your technical abilities no, it's not me being humble.

Steve 4:44

humble, that's always something I've struggled a little bit with, although I've got quite good at that, I think.

Keith 4:48

That's a contradiction isn't it?

Steve 4:51

No, every academic achievement that I've managed has been hard work. It's not been through talent or ability, it's been because I really committed to it, because there was no other choice, as I saw it in my, you know, in that sort of young, narrow field of vision that you might have, and so it was a struggle and so the delight at. So, for example, when I joined ESPN and I was preparing to do Sports Centre, every day, there is a lot of research that needs to be done in order to be completely across the whole show so that you can then have the confidence to ad lib when you need to ad lib and write and voice creative reports in preparation for the show. Now, as a sports fan, all of that research was something that never, ever felt like work, because the first thing I do when I wake up, keith, and I know you're similar for you.

Steve 5:46

Pick up my phone and see what's happened overnight in the sports world. And then my enjoyment comes in getting deep into it by reading reports and thinking about it and analysing it in my own head. That's fun. That's what I do as a hobby. You don't do that as a tax accountant. The first thing I did in the morning was not wake up and and consider you didn't check the tariffs on the day.

Steve 6:09

I did it well gosh, we probably are at the moment as we speak, but no, I, you know I didn't pick up um the tax legislation every morning and and check whether my uh, my knowledge of a certain section was, uh, was as thorough as it ought to be. That was hard work and difficult.

Keith 6:25

Back to this talent versus hard work. Uh, the older I get, the more I hear from people the hard work really does matter. And someone was sitting in that seat. Well, he wasn't. He was actually sitting at the end of a camera, a mutual friend of ours, alex young yeah, and alex talked about, uh, talent is like a divider, at the end for the ultimate, but up to that point it is hard work. So I think, if you have the motivation that makes you want to work hard and perhaps you didn't have the motivation to want to read all the new tax changes etc so the motivation, so the motivation like perhaps I'm trying to be kind to you- here.

Steve 7:06

No, no, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I mean, it's all hard work, it was hard work, but do you enjoy it? How do you view that work? Is it something that you enjoy doing, or is it a real grind, such that you procrastinate and actually just get started only when your mind and soul is?

Keith 7:24

is fully available.

Steve 7:24

Stars exactly, yeah, and and of course that doesn't need to be the case for me, picking up my phone and looking at the sports news overnight, I that's something I want to do anyway. It's like it's like a meal and still do yeah, yeah, sure, absolutely yeah.

Keith 7:38

We have similar sports we like, and there's some that we differ as well. Yes, football I never got.

Steve 7:43

Rugby. I never got Exactly.

Keith 7:49

So you became a household name in Asia through your work at ESPN, star Sports and Fox Sports Asia. When I first met, you. I want to know three things, okay, firstly, what did live broadcasting teach you about confidence?

Steve 8:04

I mean you have to be confident. If you're not, then everybody's watching and you know we're quite skilled as human beings at detecting body language and and then assessing what that body language means. And I think how you appear physically is very important. So I was very aware of that because I was a great consumer of my own content in the early days. I wanted to go and watch the replay and you know you can pick up on things. And what I wanted to do, I mean I think one of the goals I had which I guess is pretty ego driven is to appear comfortable to my audience. And that's still something I have today. And when I, when I pass, when I pass this sort of advice on to clients in the, in the coaching world, what I say is you know, when you're up on stage and you're speaking or when you are part of a panel, part of your role is to look comfortable and focus only on what you're responsible for. Probably you're very good at what you're responsible for, otherwise you wouldn't be in this position where you're speaking to many people about it. So just relax, be calm, but you must show that you're calm as well.

Steve 9:11

As an interviewer, I, or as a host in a on a tv show. I had pundits and some. There was a big range of comfort levels. Uh, with the pundits that I had, some would would be, let's say, a football pundit on football shows that I did at fox sports three and four times a week. Some would come in and it was their first time ever and they were understandably very nervous. My responsibility when somebody steps into a rather intimidating television studio is to be comfortable so that they can feel comfortable. If I'm a little bit panicky and a bit itchy and fidgety, then of course they'll feel the same way, and the more opportunity I have to chit chat to them much as we did before, we, before the camera, started to yeah opportunity.

Keith 9:58

I have to chit chat to them much as we did before we, before the camera started to. Yeah, you put me at my ease.

Steve 10:01

Thank you, that's as did you right but that's, that's part of the responsibility, right, so that we can then have a, an authentic conversation that doesn't seem stilted, that doesn't seem something that would only happen because there's a camera there. You want to get, you want to get the true feelings out of the person that you're talking to, whether it's on football or whether it's on career switches or whatever. And the best way to harness that, I think, is to have a relaxed interviewee. So that was a big part of my role and, of course, technical things happen, go wrong all the time, but that's not my area. If a graphic's not coming up, if it's not ready someone will fix it.

Steve 10:39

And if people are saying, steve, you've got to feel for a minute, we haven't got that graphic you were expecting, immediately in my mind okay, that's your problem, you deal with it.

Keith 10:47

I'm going to talk to my mate here about football for the next I'd probably go oh well, and that's what a lot of people do, and and that's when flustering and stuttering and general discomfort comes across to the viewer, and then you're but back to this point. It's live TV.

Steve 11:02

Yeah.

Keith 11:03

I have the privilege and benefit of this not going out for four or six weeks and I can edit etc.

Steve 11:09

I don't think it's a benefit.

Keith 11:11

Okay, that's fair enough.

Steve 11:13

It means you have to raise your standards and everything has to be almost perfect, right. Yeah, I just swing it I do, and you do a great job as well. So you're lucky because you have that approach.

Steve 11:24

But I think live television, live broadcasting, is much easier than recorded stuff, because everything has a higher standard if it's recorded, because everybody knows that you can take it away and splice it up and do retakes and what have you. And the standard of live broadcasting is lower. Ums and ahs and pauses are expected and therefore you can relax a little bit more.

Keith 11:46

You saw me in action earlier. I did an intro to camera and I just said that's it. I treat it as if it's live. I don't go back unless I really stumble. I don't go back over it. It is what it is as live Is.

Steve 11:59

That is a pertinent phrase that we use in broadcasting. So we're recording, but treat it as live in other words. If you mess up, just keep going and that helps people a lot.

Keith 12:07

So I said there'd be three points. A second point of that is with like you like broadcasting and your exposure to that. What did you learn then about, and your exposure?

Steve 12:18

to that. What did you learn then about communication? I mean a lot. You know this could be a long answer and many of my answers will be long, sadly, keith. No, it's good.

Steve 12:25

Communication is something that has never been a big problem for me. I mean, I talk, I'm quite happy to talk. In fact, I quite relish the idea of you know speaking, and I think speaking with more than just your voice is something that comes across. I started in television in hard news, and really you ought not to communicate with much more than your voice in hard news, because what you do when you use your hands and your eyes and your face is you give the viewer an idea of what you're thinking and how, how carefully or how much you care about something. And if I talk to you about the news of the day as a newscaster, all I ought to be doing is passing on that information to you so that you can make up your own mind.

Professional Presence with Superstars

Steve 13:10

Now, sport is different. It's entertainment. Nobody's dying in sport. Oh cool, it's fun. So if I want to have a little bit of fun and talk about how badly my team Liverpool played the other night, I can have a little twinkle in my eye if I want to Doesn't really matter, in fact, hopefully to some degree it's entertaining. All of that is done with hands and face and smiling. You know smiling if you're presenting in the business world what you're presenting in the business world, what you're trying to do is get people to jump on board with your idea, your philosophy. So to be approachable is key, and so smiling is the very easiest route to that. So I think communication, if I can pick one thing, is about more than just what you're saying, is how you're saying it.

Keith 13:52

Yeah, just literally how you walk into a room, how you present yourself. We had a discussion earlier about how we dressed and things like that Quite different today. Yeah, I started off in a plain white T-shirt and I thought that would become my trademark, and I've gravitated back towards where I spent most of my life.

Steve 14:11

You've gone nicely up the hill and your guests have gone down the hill. Sorry about that.

Keith 14:16

So what did the experience? Uh, because I find you fascinating, like broadcasting, and I've seen you a close quarters, I was lucky enough to be invited to the studio and I sat in awe. But uh, what did they teach you about handling pressure?

Steve 14:30

I mean, I think that goes back to what I said before. I think I think you you can't deal with pressure in in anything like a panicky way, because it affects everybody around you. I mean, on a TV show you are very much the it shouldn't really be said, but the truth is you're very much the central figure, you're the brand, I suppose in some way.

Keith 14:51

Well, the name gives it away You're the anchor.

Steve 14:53

Well, yes, exactly, you're the anchor to it.

Keith 14:56

So, if you are, drifting as an anchor, then the whole ship and all the passengers and crew are drifting too.

Steve 15:03

So yeah, I think what I learned was it's something I've touched upon already just look after your own stuff.

Steve 15:09

And many technical things go wrong in a television studio and I get informed about it in my ear, but I just in my mind mind okay, we'll sort it out. It's your problem, not mine. I'll sort out my problems, like if I can't remember what the next question is or um, you know, my, my interviewee is, is a bit monosyllabic and not really giving me the uh, the insight or entertainment that we want. I'll deal with that in the moment. There's ways for me to try and figure out how to maneuver my way around that. Everything else is your problem and so that pressure I I deflect.

Keith 15:41

How did you learn that it's. It's not again panic, yeah, yeah desperation.

Steve 15:48

No, you can't. You can't afford to, you can't afford to worry about other people's problems, because that it comes across in your face and in your mannerisms, you make light of it.

Keith 15:56

But I think that's very difficult in that live environment where there's so many moving parts, so many people responsible, but to be able to be focused enough to just say, yeah, this is my bit they'll sort that bit. That's a learned skill.

Steve 16:11

It's not an innate skill, I'd imagine it doesn't surprise me that you're saying that, because you've been a corporate leader, right, and as a corporate leader, you can't exist in a silo. You have to be a part of all of the people that you're leading. So you have to have tremendous empathy and you have to be able to relate to everybody's problems and you have to get your fingers in those problems. And the balance of how you do that, you know, is something I'd love to hear from you about, but it's something you need to be involved in, and I think a television presenter certainly the way I approached it it's a different thing.

Keith 16:44

It's a different skill set, different requirements that's why you did what you did and I did what I probably, yeah, but I did learn over time not to put my fingers in less and less and less, less is more over time yeah and uh. It was more about hiring the right people, giving the right motivation and then trusting them. So your level of trust is absolute in your team around you to do that right that's a good question.

Steve 17:09

I'm not sure that I always had tremendous people around me. I mean, that was so I've worked with tremendous people people who's not watching.

Keith 17:17

Well, no, no, I mean, I've worked with many people.

Steve 17:17

I hope you're not watching, no, no, I mean I've worked with many people in many parts of the world, yeah, yeah of course. So you know, I don't think anyone could really say, oh, that was me or that wasn't me. But there is quite a scope between you know. Great support and not great support in the environments that I've worked in in the television world.

Steve 17:41

Just the other week I worked with formula one crew uh, to do um my spot in porsche carrera cup, and the people I have week to week are very good, but these people because it was a special event, because it was a formula one race as well were so good right, you know everything and they emanated calm and professionalism and therefore everybody around them was calm and professional and the whole thing was super smooth. And you think to yourself, gosh, if I worked with those people week in, week out, how much better I would be, because there's then a certain responsibility, or the areas for which I'm responsible fall away. I can focus more and more just on what I am supposed to do.

Keith 18:20

I'll be careful here, but I was quite close to the McLaren team and I saw at close quarters, in my opinion, the most professional team that there was under Ron Dennis, and that's why the drivers were able to just do their stuff. Yes, everyone was so smooth around them, and other teams, who will remain nameless, looked like the proverbial headless chickens, and the results showed accordingly.

Steve 18:45

And that was always time pressure as well, wasn't it? Whether it's overnight fixing the car or a pit stop, that's just a matter of seconds. Everybody's got to be super on it, otherwise you pay the penalty in time.

Keith 18:56

Yeah, amazing being close to that. And I have some concerns now with lewis hamilton in ferrari because they're not of the same mindset, they're very different mindset people. The ferrari team fascinating.

Steve 19:09

Yeah, they are emotional, are they all italian?

Biggest Communication Blind Spots

Keith 19:12

I think the majority are italian. Yeah, he's taken his own couple with him yeah of course they always do, but it'll be a very different environment, and so he's gone from a super organized team yeah to another super organized team of mercedes and ferrari, which is ferrari, you know. That's why they're brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we won't go there, you know a lot more about f1 than I do so, let's, let's not sure actually about that. I don't know I got close enough, but that doesn't mean necessarily.

Keith 19:41

I got to know it. I got known by Nico Rosberg as the bastard. I'll tell you that another time. That's how you're known to all of us. Yeah, that's true, the bastard. Okay, now, from anchoring Premier League to interviewing global sporting icons, what are some of the standout moments for you that have shaped you both professionally and or personally, then?

Steve 20:08

Well, I've told this story before, but I think it's the one that really answers your question. Answers your question. I think when you, when you interview, you know the lewis hamiltons of this world as a sports fan. What you really want is to develop some kind of a relationship with this person.

Steve 20:26

You want them to recognize you and say oh, hi, steve, you know that kind of thing if you act as a fan boy, right, that's never going to happen because those people are surrounded by people like that all the time, so you're never going to stand out. So my philosophy is not to be that, in fact, to be everything but that, and just be professional. And the example that I give and there actually are numerous examples, but the best example, I think, is when I interviewed Manny Pacquiao once in Singapore and of course I wanted to be Manny Pacquiao's mate, I wanted him to recognise me and for us to have an ongoing journalism superstar relationship and of course, I wanted a photo with him. But you can't do that. So I came into Marina Bay Sands, into his suite and Manny was having his breakfast by the door. It was a big room and his manager took me to the other end of the suite and his and manny was having a his breakfast by the door. It was a big room and his manager took me to the other end of the suite and sat me down. He said, steve, we, we love formula one. Obviously they watched formula one.

Steve 21:26

Being in the philippines, the show went there and I said, oh, that's great, lovely. I said yeah, we all love it, and how's alex? And you know, etc. Etc. And then manny came along and we miked him up and we did the interview. But before we did the interview, his manager said Manny, it's Steve Dawson. And he looked at me and then the manager said Formula One. And Manny went oh, so there was that recognition there, which was a big thrill, right, awesome. And we did the interview and I said, oh, thanks, everybody shook hands, we de-miked and I was walking out the door and as I was going out the door, manny Pacquiao said Steve, and I said yes, and he said can we have a photo please? No way. That is, I think, the best real life example of the rewards that come if you act as a professional and you don't become a fanboy. So this is how I like to deal with superstars, if I get the opportunity to do interviews, but you were the superstar that day.

Steve 22:25

No, but clearly there were rewards that came my way because I acted professionally, and so sometimes it's about the things you turn down rather than the things you accept, even if you want to do them. I've turned down lunch with Michael Schumacher and drinks with Carlo Ancelotti and things like that, because I have work to do, but I didn't go out of my way to say I'll meet you at midnight when I'm done, or something like that, you know, which would have been a bit desperate. And there's other stories I have. I know we don't have forever this.

Keith 22:59

It comes back to reward you if you can be professional at every stage not just professional but respectful. Yes, yes, it really matters. Respect matters and, uh, people remember that for sure. But no, that's a. That's a great story. So many people dream of doing what you've done. I could only dream of that. That's the truth. But shifting into their passion, as you said, from tax accountancy it doesn't sound like it was too hard to shift, or coaching, but fear holds them back. What helped you trust yourself during times of uncertainty, times of change?

Steve 23:37

I think the biggest change was certainly from accountancy to journalism, but you and I are big boxing fans, and so you know that I had a love and a knowledge about boxing. That helped me in my journalism and gave me a good base. You were a writer, I was a writer in the UK when you were a factor captain.

Keith 23:57

So it was a writer in the uk when you were.

Steve 23:58

yeah, so it was, it was a freelance thing. Yeah, so the move into journalism was, I wouldn't say seamless, but it was.

Steve 24:05

It wasn't as drastic a move as it might appear, it was like the passing of a baton you already had your hand on but the difficulty, keith was, was actually giving something up and and fully leaving behind right something that I'd invested 11 years in, and really the first six years were full time because it was study and work, oh, of course. So my wife and I, diana, living in one of the greatest cities in the world, in London, for six years and really all we did was work and study and we missed out on, you know. Finally we had a salary and we could do things in London, but we did very little because all of our time was devoted to getting the qualifications that we eventually got. My wife had a far easier time of it than I did, but that was a real struggle and giving up that you know to effectively say and it wasn't a waste of time, it definitely was not. To this day, it helps me out, do?

Keith 24:57

you do your own tax returns. Now I do, I actually I've I've.

Steve 25:02

I have several to do, but I I farm it off to other people, but I understand it, but it's not.

Steve 25:08

It's not tax, technical stuff, it's the, it's the other skills that come with it that have that have put me in a good position in different environments, I think and, and so that is uh, that is very, very key, and but leaving that behind, uh was, I think, quite a brave thing to do, but it had to be done because I clearly was not going to develop into anything like a success in the accountancy world. Everything else that came afterwards. So the shift from print journalism to broadcast journalism, to coaching, was very organic. It was a step that was natural and that you could in some ways have predicted, I suppose. Even to coaching, because I was always the person that my bosses would tell rookie presenters to come and sit next to, so they shadowed me and I passed on advice to come and sit next to. So they shadowed me and I passed on advice. And there are presenters dotted around the region now that had their first taste of the business sitting behind me and looking over my shoulder.

Steve 26:06

And it was something I really enjoyed and so that to do that, to do more of that and have my own company doing that really wasn't a huge sideways step. It was actually a sort of a gradual step forward.

Keith 26:22

We've been friends for a long time. I've been a big admirer of yours as well, thank you. So when you did make that transition, I must have been one of the first leaders to bring you in. You were With my team.

Steve 26:35

I'm very grateful as well, by the way, but what I knew.

Keith 26:37

First of all, I knew you were good. I knew it would be good for my team. Okay, that's the number one, it has to be the number one leader, but number two. I knew that you would need to have some credibility, some reference customers et cetera. So that was a win-win. And watching you in action and I did kind of sit back, although I and watching you in action and I did kind of sit back, although I was in in the meeting and watching the reactions of people, it's one of the best reactions I've seen in my group with any kind of training. So I learned from that. That's very kind and I've taken that on. And I I was with one of the people who were in that meeting uh, day before yesterday in delhi, uh, sanjeev, who remembered you only too well.

Keith 27:18

And when I said I was seeing you, he said to say hi. He told me you make a big impact on him and how he presents himself. That's six, seven years on.

Steve 27:26

Yes, yes, something like that, so I just wanted to give you that feedback. It was very kind of you. You were very trusting because even though you, as you say, you'd been exposed to aspects of me, what you hadn't been exposed to was whether I could pass things on and the effect I would have on a group that was in front of me. And that was really just trust and I'm grateful for that yeah, important.

Keith 27:48

Respect and trust, really important things.

Steve 27:50

You need to develop those relationships in the business world, I suppose, and take a leap of faith For sure.

Keith 27:58

And I like to do the unusual sometimes. Anyway, that was certainly unusual, so I've given you a nice easy ride so far. Today, your focus is, as we just said, coaching leaders, presenters and professionals. What do you see as the biggest blind spots that people have, who you train, when it comes to their personal presence and communication?

Creating Your Life on Your Terms

Steve 28:18

So there's a lot actually and there's a wide scope. You know, there's some people that struggle here and there are other people that struggle at the other end of the spectrum In general communication, rather than just standing before an audience. I think general communication the biggest problem that people have is a sort of an inbuilt assumption that the person you're talking to knows either everything or a great deal of what you know, and we need to set the scene for people, so jargon is an issue but it's more than just words that people outside of your field don't understand.

Steve 28:52

You need to set the scene more and be more um cognizant of the fact that if you're speaking to someone and explaining something to them, it's because they don't know the things you know. Yeah, so setting a scene out, taking a few more steps back than you probably would otherwise want to, is so important, and I've been speaking recently to somebody setting up um, setting up some marketing for my business in a certain environment. I won't give too much away, but it's been a painful series of steps for me to give them what they want in order to achieve what we both want to achieve, and, from my perspective, it's been about them assuming too much knowledge on my part. Right, and I was talking to my daughter about this. My daughter's very good at taking a step back and analysing the situation and she picked out some things that I could have done better, and she was absolutely spot on.

Keith 29:49

Okay.

Steve 29:50

And between us we agreed that there were certain things that the other parties should have done as well For us to come together onto the same, into the same room, effectively, metaphorically. Only then can we can communicate properly. If we're in different rooms metaphorical rooms because we have not met each other in the right place in terms of what do we understand? What do we know about this area, unless we know that we can't properly communicate and people are reluctant to say, oh, hold on, I don't understand that.

Keith 30:20

I'm the dumbass that does that, and I don't mind appearing dumb because I've become smarter.

Steve 30:25

Yes, exactly, and too many people are willing to fake it and not be honest about their ignorance.

Keith 30:31

I remember I was in Poland my first board meeting and they were talking away. I was, and they were talking about FOB and FOB freight on board.

Steve 30:41

Okay, and I didn't know yeah.

Keith 30:44

So I just hear them talk. I said what's FOB? So our lawyer, he said you don't know what FOB is I said well, tell me. And he went, eric, he moved to the side. They'd been talking around this.

Steve 30:59

And no one knew what it was.

Keith 31:00

Because the supply chain guy was talking about it. Everyone was using this acronym and nobody knew what it was, barring my boss. So I helped educate everybody and you saw literally the shutters drop away and I continued to be the dumb person. And but I was. I would do that to save their face. That's how they saw it. But seriously, I do see that. And if you come to singapore we've both been here a long time they're acronym crazy.

Keith 31:31

Yes, oh, it's just like when I first heard acronym island, the news in the morning and the traffic, I had no clue what they're talking about. Absolutely no clue, because everything is shortened. Marina Bay Sands was MBS before the announcement went out about it, PIE AYE.

Keith 31:48

But the point is, singaporeans get it. Yeah, of course, but they need to understand in the communication world, others don't when they come in. I think you should say by the way, we love acronyms here. Here's a few of the key ones. That's a great introduction to your guests and visitors to Singapore. Instead of them, like what on earth is everybody talking about? Right?

Steve 32:09

Yeah, and it's acronyms, it's initialisms, there's a number of other things, but you can take it to other elements as well. Your visuals in a business presentation, your slides, are often constructed on this assumption, this wrong assumption that your audience knows a great deal about the subject.

Keith 32:25

Well, the reason they're there is because they don't learn something.

Steve 32:27

So every slide you put up there, if it's in any way complex, you have to take a moment to say well, on this slide, what I'm showing you here is set the scene and then give us the point you want to make, because otherwise people are just looking at this slide, going what's going on? Because they've never seen this slide before. You've worked on it potentially for hours, but this is the first time they've seen it. They can't absorb the whole idea of it within a few seconds in time for you to then explain what the impact of this slide is, and that's a big issue. So, generally speaking, that empathy that your audience doesn't know what you know, and correcting for that is probably, if I had to pick one thing, probably the biggest hurdle that people fail to overcome.

Keith 33:12

One thing I'd add into that at the beginning of a presentation so that everyone feels comfortable to say you probably know this, but and then I'll explain, yeah. Yeah, because sometimes if you just explain they go. Do they think I'm dumb? Because the different levels of understanding in the audience I noticed just going over old files from 15 years ago. My presentations were very text heavy. Now they're more visual and one-liners. I I've learned and the most powerful key that I've got on the PowerPoint is B or W on the keyboard because it blacks the screen or whites the screen to stop people looking at the slides to listen.

Steve 33:52

Very nice yeah.

Keith 33:53

And if it's there, there's always someone looking at it and reading it.

Steve 33:58

And it gives people the excuse to stop making eye contact, which is something sometimes a bit awkward.

Keith 34:03

They'd rather look at the screen and then they're not listening to you, but when you press B and for those of you who don't know that when you're in presentation mode.

Keith 34:11

If you press B, it goes to black, if you press W, it goes to white. I will use this Press it again and it comes back, and that's a great way of just pulling. Look at me now. You learn something new, drawing from both your media and coaching experiences. I'm not going to ask you about tax here. What's your approach to helping someone find their voice, whether in the boardroom or on camera?

Steve 34:34

This is multifaceted and it depends on because I like to have what I call a baseline. I like to see people present first, and then I can more likely um discover what it is. That is the main challenge. Uh, and and and. Then only can we really work on developing things. And you might say that I'm evading your question, but the truth is that the idea that you can just provide a cookie cutter solution to people is, is never really going to hold any water.

Steve 35:07

I think you need to be able to analyze each individual and then assess and, as part of a discussion maybe with them, maybe with their, their bosses and their mentors, which areas would you like to improve upon? And, if I have some experience in this area, which I think I do, which areas do I think you can improve upon? Yeah, of course, and then there are different solutions and there are different ways to tackle it. It all depends on what the problem is, you know.

Keith 35:34

So, sorry for sidestepping, but it's to make it cookie cutter, to make it general would be having worked in my last five years in corporate life for an American corporation, there is a little bit of a mentality in American corporate life when it comes to Asia the cookie cutter approach of work that they can bring something that worked in Kansas and drop it into Shenzhen. Oh gosh, and I've learned.

Steve 35:58

We know that, don't we, but we know, but others think differently.

Keith 36:04

You've spent your career let's exclude the first few years the first 11 years in high performance environments. It was a high performance environment.

Steve 36:12

It's just that I wasn't one of the high performers.

Keith 36:14

That's what habits or routines have you used to help you stay grounded and on track?

Steve 36:22

good preparation is something I learned pretty quickly in broadcasting. I mean, I've been surrounded by a few good people and I think this specific question that you ask I'll. I'll mention jason dacey, who was the first um co-anchor that I had on sports center at espn, okay, and and I sat next to Jason, you know, in the hours leading up to the show and I had the privilege of watching how he prepared and there was a number of habits that he picked out that stood out to me, that I mimicked and copied.

Steve 36:58

You know I mean one thing. For example, an anchor and this goes back also to arnold gay um at a channel I. An anchor will sit there in a fairly quiet newsroom which is in many ways just like any other open plan area of a company, and when he's looking at his links to camera he would read them out aloud. So you and I would read emails in our head, but he must read it aloud and at first I thought it was a bit weird and a bit you know how. He's not very self-conscious, is he? Because everyone can listen to him and he's disturbing everyone else. But of course this is a spoken medium. It's not just about how it appears in your head.

Steve 37:37

You've got to hear yourself say yes and and he'd been doing it for many years and so it wasn't even something he thought about and I developed that habit and probably people thought the same thing about me, that I thought about Arnold in the first few days.

Steve 37:52

But eventually you realize it has to be done, because writing for the spoken word is actually quite challenging and all of our links to camera are written initially by somebody else. And writing for the spoken word is actually quite challenging and all of our links to camera are written initially by somebody else, and writing for the spoken word is difficult. Writing for somebody else to speak is even more difficult because we all speak differently. We are, we all have different cadence, we all have different styles and every link I ever received would be rewritten in some way. But there was a framework for me to to work with and in order to make sure that it was going to come out well on camera when we go live. There's no other chances. As you said, after that I need to speak it in the newsroom in the in the open plan working area.

Keith 38:33

I mean, you know, that's, that's one it's all almost a dry run for life. It is exactly that, just getting you into that frame of mind. Really important. Mentors are like a formal help to you, but sitting alongside, as you literally did, someone who you could see were professional and you could mimic those habits, is so fantastic to be able to build your own.

Steve 38:58

And I was lucky. I had good people around me, a number of good people.

Keith 39:01

I wonder who's sitting watching you now? Now you have a whole plethora of people listening, watching, learning, seeing your habits, including me. And one thing he also was the emcee at my wedding. Yes, indeed, which was 11 and a half years ago, believe it or not At the British Club. That's flown by One other bit of that. Then how do you you always are, how do you stay so energised in your work?

Steve 39:29

Coffee? Probably no. I think it's because I'm very lucky that I enjoy my work. So the subject matter usually is very enjoyable and there are some sports that I have to. You know, grown a bit at.

Steve 39:40

I'm a big sports fan, but that doesn't mean I enjoy every sport and actually formula one was a a great example of a sport that I had no interest in until I had to, had to, and then you get behind the helmet and you and you see the, the people and their stories, and then it becomes, and then it becomes interesting. So that's certainly one thing, um, it's about, uh, uh, it's about being naturally interested. Anyway, I think that's how you get up for something right, you know but also the, the high cost of failure, you know, drives you on.

Steve 40:15

You know, if you're broadcasting to millions of people, potentially, then you want to make sure that it's going to go, that it's going to work well. But even if you're in a room with eight or ten people there, they are looking to you and expecting to learn something or expecting to get something out of the day. Yeah, and if you don't deliver, that's quite an embarrassment, it's quite a fall from grace. So the cost of failure probably is something that keeps you going, motivates you to prepare well.

Keith 40:48

You're younger than me, let's just leave it there. Marginally. You're younger than me. You're the right side of 60. I'm the wrong side of 60. How do you continue to focus on your own personal growth and your evolution as both a person and as a professional?

Steve 41:04

it's interesting that you mention age, because I think you know we do have different phases of life, don't we, um? And for me, I'm I'm tremendously lucky at the moment for, in a number of, in a number of ways, our children are both working individuals now, and although they still end up costing you quite a lot of money.

Steve 41:25

You know, by and large they're off our hands financially. My wife has had an exceptionally successful career. You know, I've always been very proud of her and in awe of what she's achieved, and so she keeps the bank account ticking along quite nicely. So there's not tremendous pressure because our costs have gone down and there's still income there. There's not tremendous pressure on me to work every hour that God gives.

Steve 41:52

And so I'm in a position now where I'm in my late 50s, I'm having a sort of a transitional period between full-on work, which was the case at fox sports it was, it was eight hours, nine hours, ten hours a day, five days a week and extra work that I was doing with other organizations, to now a situation where, perhaps on average, I work one or two hours a day on average.

Steve 42:15

You know, there are days when I work a full 10 hours and there are days that go by when I don't work at all. I am I'm lucky enough, therefore, to to be able to design my life in a way that suits me. So I get lots of work overseas, but I hate the idea of just going to Shanghai working and coming back. I'd much rather go to Shanghai, work head off to Koh Samui, as I did the other day, enjoy a few days by the beach and then come home, you know, or maybe link one overseas job with another and then spend the days in between you know, I don't know in in ho chi minh or something like that I get that.

Keith 42:54

I've been I don't know how many times, more than 20, less than 30 times to delhi, but in the corporate life I just went there, met, organized dinners, meetings in offices, factories and home. Yeah yeah, this time I went, but it's my time, so I built in a day and I sight saw.

Steve 43:15

Finally got to see the city For the very first time Crazy right A bit crazy.

Keith 43:19

It was 41 degrees and I look quite red-faced in the pictures I took. Uh, bonnie, my wife thought it was sun time, but it's not. It was just the exertion of walking in 41 degrees.

Steve 43:30

But it was fabulous and so many beers, probably, and no, I didn't know later on I had the gnt to cool down after everything, which was really nice but I get your point that you can make your own time.

Keith 43:43

And yet when we met up just over a year ago and we have our regular high tea and we should do that again, but you were busier than I was, and you made me feel a little guilty that I'd been slacking, to be honest. Oh well, don't yeah so I've stepped up, so it looks like we're passing each other again.

Steve 44:01

yeah, but I think this idea of I we have to fill our day, for sure, but I think a lot of people struggle. I think a lot of people struggle in that steep fall off between working full time and then retirement.

Keith 44:12

I did.

Steve 44:12

And that's why I think I'm lucky in that I've had a transition. Everything I do, I think, is becoming a rehearsal for retirement At some point I'm not going to have any work. I'm already probably too ugly to be on camera a great deal, which is why I get more commentary gigs and presentation gigs these days. I think at some point the work I'm doing now is everything ends right.

Keith 44:32

I don't know when it's going to be look at attenborough.

Steve 44:35

But but then you get to the point where if I've got a quantifiable number of years left, do I want to?

Keith 44:46

spend it doing anything other than just something that's pleasurable or something that really helps other people. The crappy thing is we don't know how long that is. We had that discussion earlier. Both our dads died quite young right. So I'm mindful of that one, and I'm approaching, in a few years, the time when my dad died, and you're at that point yeah it really makes you rethink everything right, but but it's a.

Steve 45:07

It's a helpful perspective to have.

Keith 45:08

Isn't it not a good?

Steve 45:09

thing to have been through, but it gives us more, a greater sense of urgency to make sure that what we do here, yeah, is valid and worthwhile and enjoyable well, I'm, I'm.

Keith 45:22

Don't have as much free time as you because I've got seven-year-old and 10-year-old kids.

Steve 45:25

Yeah.

Finding Power Within Through Purpose

Keith 45:26

I'm the crazy one that did that all over again. Let's go back. I've touched a number of times unfairly perhaps on your tax accounting days, but if you could go back to the tax accountant, steve, that version of yourself, what would you say to yourself, knowing what you know now?

Steve 45:45

So I think about these things a lot, probably because I've got too much time on my hands, you know, would I have taken a different path and I had this conversation with my wife actually only on three days ago we were having dinner and we were talking about what other paths we might have taken, perhaps had we not come to Singapore, or whatever. What would I say to myself? I, I don't think, you know that I'm, apart from the odd little error here and there, I don't think I've done too many things that I regret. Uh, certainly not in terms of life paths. Okay, um, I think, if, I think, if see, the biggest influence on my life undoubtedly has been diana, my wife, because that's why I'm in singapore. Yeah, of course. Yeah, initially, when we had this conversation, you know, if we hadn't come to singapore, what would we have done? Explored?

Keith 46:35

london for a start.

Steve 46:36

Well, yes, that we think we, we think. The first thing we said was well, we probably have ended up in America, where we spend a lot of time anyway. But then we realised well, it's a stupid question, because, as being together, as a unit, we would inevitably have come to Singapore.

Steve 46:51

It would be strange if we hadn't given our personalities, who we are and what we do. So, really, if I was to go on you know, these sliding doors moments, the biggest sliding door for me would have been not to have got together with Diana, Right? So if I was alone in London or met somebody else, what would I have done and what would I say to myself? If I went back now? And I think what I would say to myself was find Diana. Yeah, actually, Because Asia is, as you know, and the fact that we're both still here is testament to the well.

Steve 47:23

I went away and came back. I'm fine, but, but you came back.

Keith 47:26

Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a bigger thing in many ways.

Steve 47:28

It's a bigger thing than staying here all the time going away and then deciding on home. Want to come back.

Keith 47:37

And. I know both of us are fortunate enough to be able to stay here, yes, beyond a three five-year work assignment which lots of people do right and they dream of wanting to stay. We live in the dream in that respect absolutely, we are you know it's fabulous. Every day I can just put on a pair of shorts, a t-shirt and flip-flops, and you imagine doing that even in july. It might be too cold in the uk.

Steve 47:56

Do you enjoy having this conversation with your peers? You know people that are like us, that have come from other countries here, settled in singapore, and asking them what's the end game? Are you going to go back?

Keith 48:06

are you going?

Steve 48:07

to stay or are you going to sort of go somewhere else in the region? Because, depending on what brought you here, what you've done since you came here, those answers are all very different and, uh, most people are smart enough to know they can't think beyond five years.

Keith 48:22

anyway, I learned that a long time ago.

Steve 48:24

This is very true.

Keith 48:26

Things are kind of working its way out for us. Bonnie, who's Malaysian Chinese, became a Singaporean citizen last year. And the kids became Singaporean citizens two months ago, so I guess I'm kind of stuck here for the foreseeable. So let's wrap up with aspiring leaders, communicators and anyone looking to reinvent themselves, as you've done a couple of times, what's one piece of advice you'd share to help them unlock the power within?

Steve 48:58

I think for me. I think for me, what unlocked my power within was doing something that I was good at, which is not easy to find always, you know. But suddenly, suddenly, doors opened. I went from a job that I thought I should do, that my father would have enjoyed, that was stimulating and paid well, paid, paid fairly well, but but also was, you know, I didn't really have a big, a big scope, but it's not like I analyzed the entire employment field I just kind of walked, it stumbled into it blindly, actually, and in the end it wasn't really a happy place.

Steve 49:39

I found the happiness, the power within then uh came about, because I ended up doing something that I enjoyed and am naturally incentivized, yeah, to, to perform in. So I think there's a generational change, for for me and, I think, my, my brother and and our generation, it's a thing you said we want. We want money, we want our parents to be proud of us and we want to do the thing that we've kind of been indirectly, subconsciously, led into and we do.

Keith 50:13

You said accidental. I don't believe that. I think that you, you come to these sliding door moments, as you call them, but you still have to step through, you have to make a decision yes yes, and I think the people who don't are the ones who then maybe they live with regret, maybe they don't, but they don't move forward.

Keith 50:31

So you, you, it's not accidental. You put yourself in a position, you're there, you see the options and you make a decision go stop, left, right, whatever. So I'm kind of answering the question for you now in saying you made that, you didn't. It didn't happen as accidentally as you suggest, but it's a generational thing.

Steve 50:52

I mean, I think you and I we didn't come from poverty stricken homes, but we were, I did well, okay, but but money wasn't there for us to just fritter away. Of course and I'm not saying it is now for our children, but they're comfortable, our children and so they're less motivated by the parameters that we're having are much more able to step into careers that would likely be something that they love. My daughter is a, a veterinary nurse.

Steve 51:33

yeah, you've seen she's always been always since she was very young a lover of animals more than people, and this is just ideal for smart girl.

Steve 51:41

She is a smart girl, she's a very smart girl, and my older daughter, um, has has jumped around from one or two things, finding her way, but overwhelmingly uh. This is Amelia, my older daughter. She's a helpful person, she cares about other people and she's just done a master's in speech therapy and now she's working with children and older people who may have had some medical issue and are and are struggling to gain the speech ability that they had before, and she's so suited to that. So so both girls, hayley and amelia, are doing things that they are naturally drawn towards, that they really enjoy, and they're not motivated by the things that we were motivated by, and the fact that we've been able to put them in that position is something I think we can probably be quite happy about. I'm proud. Yes, who's to know? Whether the next generation? Whether it goes like that, however, from one generation to another, I don't know, that will remain to be seen.

Keith 52:42

We could talk all day, steve, and perhaps we'll. We do sometimes and I do think we long overdue one of our high teas. Let's do it, I'm no longer a member of the British club. I'll host you at the cricket club next time, and Serengoon Garden Country Club is not on the same level as the British club no, they don't have the stacked high tees, no, so we have to find somewhere else.

Keith 53:01

So thanks for sparing your time, thank you for sharing your journey, your story, your own power within, and it has been quite a journey and it's so good to be at the point you are and very happy with where you've got. I hope that all our listeners and viewers are able to do the same thing. You talk about appearing in front of millions, which you did. I've got 12,500 subscribers now and that scares me to death.

Steve 53:30

It's only going to get bigger.

Keith 53:31

Yeah, I thought with my friends and family I'd get a few hundred and they'd be critical, etc. But now I'm getting critiques from India, from Australia, because people do write.

Steve 53:42

They tell you stuff right.

Keith 53:44

Hey, you should try this or maybe you should do that, but they keep watching, so that's great. Thanks again, steve, and thank you for joining us on the Power Within. Thanks for listening to the Power Within. I hope today's episode inspired you to grow, lead and create the success you deserve. If you enjoyed the podcast, share it with someone who might find it valuable, and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. Join us next time as we explore more stories of leadership and personal growth, and remember that setbacks are just stepping stones to something greater. Until then, stay strong, stay positive and keep believing in the power within.