Wine, Water, and Wisdom: Clinton Ang's Leadership Journey

Clinton Ang embodies the rare third-generation business leader who expands rather than spends the family legacy. As Managing Director and Chairman of Cornerstone Wines, he has transformed a traditional company founded in 1938 into a dynamic enterprise operating across 28 countries from China to the Maldives.

When Clinton joined the family business in 1997, he faced what might have broken lesser leaders – the Asian financial crisis, his father's stroke, lost distribution partnerships, and a company with 35 staff (half being family members) watching revenue plummet by 70-80%. Rather than retreating, Clinton saw opportunity in creating wines specifically designed for Asian palates and cuisine. This vision of adaptability became his north star.

The COVID pandemic showcased Clinton's contrarian leadership brilliance. While others slashed costs and staff, Clinton doubled down on B2C sales, hiring more personnel and transforming warehouse space into retail operations. This bold move resulted in astonishing 350-400% growth in direct consumer sales during the pandemic, fundamentally rebalancing the business from 90% B2B/10% B2C to an even 50/50 split today.

Technology drives Clinton's scaling strategy. Since 2016, his philosophy has been to "work himself out of a job" by embedding his business intelligence into automated systems and processes. Every Wednesday, a dedicated team focuses solely on technological advancement of the business. This automation has allowed growth without proportional increases in complexity or staffing.

Family values permeate Clinton's leadership approach. Transparency and accountability are non-negotiable, with all decisions evaluated against what serves future generations, not just immediate profits. He's even created a detailed blueprint for succession within his will – acknowledging that many family businesses fail because previous generations didn't adequately prepare for transition.

For next-generation leaders stepping into family businesses, Clinton offers wisdom earned through experience: be prepared to work constantly, operate with transparency, avoid entitlement, and recognise your role as steward rather than owner. Most importantly, passion must drive you – if you don't love what you're doing, bring in professionals and lead from the Board level.

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Transcript

Introduction to Clinton Ang

Keith 0:00

Welcome to the Power Within, the podcast where we explore leadership, personal growth and the dynamics that shape success. I'm Keith Power and each week I sit down with inspiring individuals who share insights on leading with impact, building resilience and unlocking potential. On leading with impact, building resilience and unlocking potential. Through their experiences, we'll uncover the mindset and strategies that drive meaningful growth. Whether you're looking to evolve as a leader or gain new perspectives, this podcast is here to guide you. Today, I sit down with Clinton Ang, managing Director of Cornerstone Wine, whose family business roots trace back to 1938.

Keith 0:56

As we explore more stories of resilience, growth and the power of determination, clinton is not just the third generation leader of a regional wine empire. He's also a visionary who has helped transform a traditional company into a modern player across 28 countries, from China to the Maldives. Starting in 1997 as a sales and marketing executive at Hoctong B, clinton didn't walk into a corner office. He rode up his sleeves and worked from the ground up. Since then, he's created brands like Cornerstone, vino Plus and 12 Degrees, tailored specifically to Asian palates and cuisine. His approach blends deep respect for family heritage with an eye for innovation and adaptability, something that proved vital when steering the business through the disruption of COVID-19. This episode is a conversation about reinvention, family dynamics. About reinvention, family dynamics, entrepreneurship and what it truly means to build on tradition, not just with it. Clinton, welcome to the Power Within Pleasure mate, let's dive right into the nitty gritty. Women's magazine Clio once described you as its most eligible bachelor. Having celebrated your 50th birthday a couple of years ago, does this?

Early Challenges in Family Business

Clinton 2:30

still apply. Rather embarrassing, I would say. You know, once you get to the right side of 50, or really after you know, when you're young you do a lot of interesting stuff. That was one of those that was kind of I was unexpectedly nominated for. We had a jolly good time. We have a lot of great memories from that. Yeah, you could say that's a little funny accolade. I would say, but no, I know I'm most blessed to have the greatest wife to me, tina. You know we've been married for now on 13 years. We have two lovely daughters, seven and 13, seven and 12. The elder one going, uh, for psle this year so so lots and lots of stress.

Clinton 3:09

Mommy has a stress, yeah, but what when mommy's stress? Uh, daddy stress too. So, of course, yeah. So I would say that I would be, in my opinion, uh, the most blessed husband note for singaporean ladies he's gone already.

Keith 3:24

Okay, so you started your side of the business, the Cornerstone part, in 1997, as a sales and marketing executive. What do you remember about those early days and how did they shape the leader that you've become today?

Clinton 3:41

You know those were tough times because I think when the company was founded in 1938, I think we saw in the 1960s the Indonesian riots. So that was when we faced our first real challenge. And then my grandfather had a heart attack. He passed away on the fourth day of Chinese New Year. My father had to leave school, leave law school, to join the business, and everything that we had we put it into the business. So that was number one. Number two during my father's time in the 90s he had grown it to being one of the largest wholesalers in Singapore, representing all the big multinationals. But then the multinationals decided to set up shop and do everything direct. So overnight we lost a lot of that as well. So then dad suffered a bout of stroke and then asked my eldest, my second brother and myself to come back.

Clinton 4:34

And then when I joined in 1997, if you can imagine our company, 35 of us turnover probably dropping what 70, 80%, 35 staff, 17 family members, so 50 percent of them are family members. A lot of them have seen the great potential and lost it. In a way, you know, over the decade. Everybody is now focused on exiting and taking what they feel should be their entitlement and not for the collective cause. It was a very difficult time we joined in. Our aim was to restructure, have a general, what we call BPR, which is business process re-engineering, and set forth the foundation for the future. You know, as in all family businesses, within and between generations, there are challenges. So 97 was also the start and the crux of the Asian financial crisis, so it was really not the greatest time to start.

Keith 5:30

Where did you come from at that point when you said you came back in 97? Where were you coming back from?

Clinton 5:36

I graduated from my bachelor's in 94 from the US. Then I was given a great opportunity to be an apprentice fund manager I call it FUN rather than FUND. So I had a great time in New York. But then dad said, you know, it was time to come back because your grandma had I have three siblings. So my grandma gave us our names and the last four characters of our names, jiangshan Bao Chuan, which means the generation's riches is to be passed on, and I am the passer. So my grandma said you are the chosen one, you have to come back. And so unfortunately, unfortunately I did, but had to do my military service first. So finish that out. And then I joined in february 1997. And then boom, we faced the crux of the Asian financial crisis.

Keith 6:26

So, on the surface of it, everything looks wonderful today, but the business has undergone a few of these seismic shifts. But one thing I didn't know about both your father and your grandfather the things that ended their lives were, let's say, stress-related illnesses ended their lives were, let's say, stress-related illnesses.

Clinton 6:50

Oh, indeed, so, my grandfather, because we had all the credit we had given to the Indonesian wholesalers. They had to flee because the indigenous people were looting their premises, and then, in my father's case, it was, I would say, stress and you know, and then eventually he had a stroke. I mean, he had a stroke and then eventually he had cancer of the pancreas. Yeah, and so that is why one of the promises I made to Tina, who is, you know, more than a decade younger than me, was that I would keep myself very fit, and for her and for the children and obviously for the business, et cetera. So I've just come back from Taiwan where we had a very comprehensive medical examination, and I do that every three years. Now, being on the right side of 50, probably I'll do it every two years. The doctor said you're pretty good for two to three years.

Keith 7:39

So yeah, I count my blessings and a great excuse to get out and play golf more often.

Clinton 7:46

You mean the drinking or the golf, but both come hand in hand. Yeah, they kind of do.

Keith 7:53

So Cornerstone Wines now operates in 28 countries today. What were the most pivotal decisions or moments that made that scale up possible?

Building a Regional Wine Empire

Clinton 8:05

The first key thing was that we have to adapt to changes. Where, in my father's case, where he relied as the exclusive importer for brands, you cannot control your destiny, brands today are not like yesteryear. They are, in a way, no longer loyal, or they are loyal only for the shorter term, unlike relationships that my father and myself have had for like 50, 60 years. So, yeah, I think you have to adapt and change. So one of the key things that we did was we developed our own brands. So Cornerstone Brands was a brand that we developed in 1997, a wine made by an Asian for Asian cuisine, and we wanted to target the value segment of the market. You see, in being a. And we saw ourselves also as the right place because we have our own premises, 50,000 square feet, we have a duty-free, it's a hub, so we are able to use the hub on a just-in-time basis to be able to distribute to Malaysia, indonesia, thailand, philippines, cambodia, vietnam, laos, myanmar, maldives, mauritius, sri Lanka, bangladesh, bhutan, nepal, etc. And they have consolidations via Singapore. But if you don't give them enough to consolidate, they will find alternative places. So what we need to be is a one-stop A to Z of wines and spirits accessories. Now water to B is a one-stop A to Z of wines and spirits, accessories, now water, and we have our turnkey solution being very low-cost, effective. And then we do branding, positioning, marketing on top of that, so we become their partner for the region.

Clinton 9:36

The other thing is when we represent brands now not just for Singapore but the entire region we are able to have more leverage.

Clinton 9:44

When a brand owner wants to change one market, it's very easy. When a brand owner wants to change multiple markets, it's very difficult. My grandma always said if you took a pair of chopsticks and you tried to break it, it's very easy, but you put a bunch of chopsticks together. Try again, much harder, not impossible, much harder. So in a way, I would say we developed all that with our own brands, our approach to the market continuing and because we have a very macro, worldwide view, I try to be a kind of external consultant to my partner's businesses, so where we try to not only sell them but also help them strategize and a lot of my partners as an example, during COVID time I had already pre-COVID through the years I had encouraged a lot of my partners to go and dive deep into B2C and leverage and diversify from B2B, where most of our businesses traditionally came from. Those who did survived COVID, those who didn't struggled with COVID and now face a lot more challenges.

Keith 10:47

You didn't just advise, though. You followed your own advice on that as well, right Indeed indeed, I mean, you know, give you an example.

Clinton 10:55

I mean during pre-COVID time we were 90% B2B, 10% B2C. At the crux of COVID, just before COVID came on, you know, I made a decision and I told the board I think we have to double down and hire more staff, let them work from home but connect to private individuals and try to sell direct B2C instead of opening retail shops Because I believe more in roving rather than a static place and having each of our individual salespeople as mobile retail shops, so to speak and then converting our first floor of our warehouse into a warehouse cash and carry, having to facilitate retail sales. So that saved us. Over COVID, our B2C business grew by wow, 350 to 400% and even now, with the normalization, we're still up double. So today our B2C business is 50% of our business and our B2B business is 50%. So I'm pretty happy in that sense because it gives us a great diversification and balancing out, just in case, touch wood, anything does happen. Again, we have a more balanced approach to fight and weather the storm.

Keith 12:07

So your diversification has been a key to your strategy Diversification in terms of country, diversification in terms of product and brands, and diversification in terms of the B2B versus the B2C. All across the board, that is fantastic. It does indeed give you that protection for want of a better word but it brings added complexity to your business. Right, how do you cope with that added complexity? It's a more complex business now than it was 10 years ago, I'd imagine.

Clinton 12:38

The key answer to that is automation. So what we've done is that even before COVID, I think from 2016, I pitched to the board that we really needed to automate everything and to have a certain level of ai. What do I mean? So my philosophy from 2016 was to work myself out of a job. The more clinton is needed in his position, the worse, the more of a disservice I've done to the company. So my aim is to ensure continuity, scalability as it is as best as possible.

Clinton 13:12

And what do I do? I put all my intelligence into a kind of a BI, a business intelligence model. This sits on top of the ERP. So our BI and our BI has all the alerts, all the algorithms of basically automate reordering, alert on preemptive stuff, as well as going after predictive analysis, etc. So these are all the things that I do, really on a forecasting and preventive basis Preventive first, then forecasting next, and now we have it all automated in our BI.

Clinton 13:48

So because of that, we are able to take away number one manual, a lot of manual jobs. And for those colleagues who are worried that their jobs will be made redundant, I always tell them value add and you are gonna be worth more, and that was my key. So, while we have, our business has grown, our infrastructure has grown, but not to same extent. Because we have automated, because we have implemented and we continue to do so. We have a FinTech meeting every Wednesday and we call it the financial technological advancement of our business. And that is a first when every Wednesday, nine to 12. Who sits in on that business?

Clinton 14:26

So I've got my IT team, I've got our chief operating officer, which is Tina, and then I've got our consultant to us for IT, who now has become the first non-family, non-executive director of the company. I met him at your 50th birthday. Yeah, ravi, I think you know when you bring great minds together and where and this is something also that is very important where you feel personally, as the managing director, that you are lacking and I have an information systems background and yet I am not on it 150, 200%. So where you are lacking you need to have the advice.

Clinton 15:05

And there, ravi, is the piece of the puzzle, I would say the missing piece of the puzzle. Well, we still have fairly a number of missing pieces of the puzzle, but a key missing piece of the puzzle, and from there we continue to forge ahead, and so I'm pretty glad at the current advancement and growth of the company. But the work is only just begun. We have still much more to go, and especially in the face of the current slowdown, uncertainties and challenges in the marketplace, not only domestically but globally.

Keith 15:40

You've emphasized this Asian forian solution within your brands. What did you see when you tailored these for the asian market? What did you see that others in the industry missed.

Clinton 15:54

You know, let's say, for example, a wine from australia. They make wine that hopefully one blend caters to the entire world. Uh, and in 97, uh, this was the the standard operating procedure for all wineries. Right, because can you imagine if they had um one blend for one country?

Keith 16:12

yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there's too many to manage logistics and logistics, etc.

Clinton 16:16

Right so. So for me I didn't worry about at that point in time. We didn't cover many other parts of the world, so we were focusing really on Asia, and why not? We have one blend for Asia and that is why I said a wine made by an Asian for Asian cuisine, and Asian cuisine is also very specific. So we have wines that matches the Thai glutinous rice with mango. We have char kway teow, we have chicken rice. We have various things. If you look at Cornerstone wines, we have char kway teow, we have chicken rice. We have various things. If you look at Cornerstone Wines, we started with two SKUs and today we have 28. So we cover a lot of the most loved cuisines of the world of Asia.

Keith 16:57

Is that a coincidence that it's the same amount of countries you operate in? Well, it seems that way.

Clinton 17:03

Yeah, it just works out, I guess. Yeah, and it's also a nice number, yeah, so I'm just reading through this.

Keith 17:09

As much as you strategize, some things are just how they are. They come along because you are in a particular situation. You're in the Asian market, you're matching to Asian cuisine, so it's natural that you look for blends of wine that match into there. You have a different mindset than one of the global players, then, in that sense, right. Does it restrict you only to Asia in the longer term, in a sense, when we started out, it probably did so.

Family Values in Business Leadership

Clinton 17:39

Asia was our focus, but if you think about it now, asian cuisine.

Clinton 17:44

Asian cuisine is the fastest growing cuisine all over the world. It has spice, it has complexity, it is fried, it is steamed, it is baked, it is whichever, and when you have various wines to be able to match that, so I don't have to go after, for example, if I wanted to go after the US, I don't have to go after the steakhouses, but I can go after the Asian chains. It's a defined category in a huge market which is able to give enough of a marketplace right. So, like it or not, it's been great. And now, ironically, we are now starting to sell a little bit to Europe, to the US, to some other countries, but actually not Cornerstone Wines, but using our regional marketplace.

Keith 18:31

Let's switch back to the family aspect here. How do you balance honouring your family's legacy whilst also asserting your own leadership vision, and has that ever caused friction?

Clinton 18:46

Oh, undoubtedly, I mean I reckon. So. I was educated in the US when I joined the company. Obviously they have time-ordered traditions. We had 17 family members. I had my grandma, my father, my two aunties and we had many staff that have worked for a long time With the new generation being educated overseas.

Clinton 19:10

You always think about new process, new procedures, and for me, in addition, everyone calls me a little bit of a maverick and to a certain extent a little bit of a rebel, because I never take no for an answer. So for me also, black is black, white is white. I don't like grayness, right, so I only go on the white no black, no gray. So, as you can imagine, that caused a lot of conflict. So I remember arguing with my aunties and my dad many, many times. I wanted to quit three times.

Clinton 19:44

In the first, what I would say five years of working is that all you know we have a chinese saying uh, what's your yam? Which in hawkian and in english it means they eat more salt than I eat rice. So obviously that makes absolute sense. But then I replied to them another Chinese, a Chinese saying, which means that with each wave, a bigger wave comes through.

Clinton 20:15

So you know in retrospect, when I look at everything that I've done, I would say I don't regret 80% of what I've done. I would like to take back 20%. In a sense, I think I could have been a little more, less confrontational and admittingly so, and also to be a little more collective. But, to be fair, I think my father maybe less my father my two aunties I understand where they came from, but they were very strong. They were very rested on their own opinions and the way that things have done for the last 20, 30 years and they weren't open to change. So I knew I had to do what I had to do and I have to say that if I didn't do what I did, probably sooner than later the company might not be around today.

Keith 21:06

You've quoted quite a few Chinese sayings. An English one you can't make an omelette without cracking eggs. Yeah Right.

Clinton 21:15

That's a good one.

Keith 21:18

So family businesses, and this is the unique part today, it can be complex. What lessons have you learned? Yeah, other than perhaps that 20% not being so confrontational about navigating family relationships, but within the professional context, I've been asked several times to be a non-executive director in many family companies.

Clinton 21:40

You know family companies make up a large part, so SMEs make up a large part of corporates in the world. Family businesses make a large part a majority of SMEs and many SMEs and many family companies are going through unprecedented challenges Today. Most family businesses the potential successors, see no opportunity, no interest, no passion in the business. A lot of things have to be planted from young. Just like my father, during our school holidays we always spend time in the office. Now during school holidays I bring my children to the office, right. So I think it's important to cultivate that interest and that passion in them from an early age. But I think the key for today's prior generation, whether the matriarch or the patriarch or the current generation, for the next generation, the first key thing they have to remember now is that the only constant in life is change. Whatever that you have done in the past, it is the past.

Keith 22:43

You can't rest on it.

Clinton 22:44

Yes, you cannot. You can be proud of it. You have done well, we count our blessings and we thank you for it. But no one looks at the past anymore. No, everyone looks to the future, and in the future requires adaptation, requires change. Number one. Number two there are many current generations that keep sending their young or the next gen to classes or to whichever to learn about family businesses, about next gen and everything. And I always encourage for those that I come to interact with and have had the pleasure, I say, when we go for these classes or these educational seminars, actually both generations should go.

Clinton 23:26

It is not just the next gen, what are you talking about? It is the current gen. It is an ongoing learning process, right? What are you talking about? It is the current gen. It is an ongoing learning process, right? Just as I shared with my wife, as we now adapt again and change for the company for the next 5, 10, 15 years and longer. It is about change. I continue to learn every day. The day I say that I am what it is and I know it all, it is the day that is over.

Keith 23:52

You've taken one unique approach. You said about planting the seeds with the future generation. You take your own children into the office, but you've also used their names for branding some of your product. Right, that's right. Yes, that is really getting them involved in the deepest sense of the word. The great thing that I think and I admire in you. I've seen so much with Asian family generational switches, where it goes wrong in the third generation, and in your case it's done the absolute opposite. It's done the biggest bounce ever. So you've left now a huge responsibility on your children for the future right.

Clinton 24:32

Thank you, keith. I mean, yes, they always say right. The first generation starts the business, the second generation grows it, the third generation spends it Exactly. So you know the funny thing about it. So a lot of people tell me that that would never happen, right, but I always believe that. Never say never, the people who say it will never happen, it always happens. So I have that slogan in the front of my office door Every day. When I walk in and out of the office I see it. It continues to remind me every day that I could be spending the company. You know, we are human beings, so we are emotional, we react and the key thing is about alerts. So we are emotional, we react and the key thing is about alerts, constant reminders. So for me that is very key.

Clinton 25:14

The other aspect, I think, to ensuring the growth of family businesses is to be transparent and accountable. One thing about me is, as I said, I do not believe in grey nor black, I believe in white. So everything for me is crystal clear. Everything I do is for the best of the company. Everything I do, I account for it and I rationalize it and I do the necessary. So when you do that, you live your position as MD and chairman of the company in all transparency and everything 100% for the family, and I always share with my mom. I said everything that I do I focus on not pleasing the current generation, but I do it for the next generation and when you have that perspective in mind, you will bypass all the intricacies of the current generation.

Keith 26:06

I've dealt with a lot of multi-generational families who were distributors of products that I sold. That's my interaction. I've not been deeply involved, but I watch you and I would share, and I hope you don't mind me sharing. You're not the one to be spending the generational wealth. When I first saw you pull up in your car, I don't remember how old it was, but it wasn't a brand new car, right?

Clinton 26:35

Absolutely. This comes with a philosophy that my grandma actually shared at a dinner table. So every dinner time, as a traditional Chinese family, we would have dinner together and, me being the youngest, I'm only always in the kids table and my eldest brother and my second brother being the two elder ones'm only always in the kids table and my eldest brother and my second brother being the two elder ones would be sitting in the adults table, and my grandma and my father will always share stories and their philosophies and everything and, like it or not, somehow I overheard all these things because I wanted to be part of the main table. It stuck deep.

Navigating Through COVID-19 Crisis

Clinton 27:08

So one of these things that my grandma shared with me was the more you want something, the more you tell yourself not to have it. That allows you to live, to fight another day. Of course you have to smell the roses, you have to enjoy life, but there are certain things that, in a sense, doesn't really make sense. So a lot of my friends tease me like I always buy. I never, ever buy a new car. I always buy a pre-loved, three-year-old car, because if you look at a Singapore's system, when you buy a new car and you drive it out, you already lose 10%, so you might as well allow someone else to suffer that three years of depreciation.

Clinton 27:48

Exactly that privilege, and then I will buy it pre-loved and then I minimise the depreciation of the next seven years and, working through, I'm very confident of myself. I don't need a car, watches or whichever to substantiate myself, but they are nice to have. But it doesn't define me. I am who I am and I work the way that it is.

Keith 28:18

I admire that in you. We've known each other. I was trying to calculate the other day I think it's 12 years, just after you got married, actually, and just before we got married. I think that was about the timing. So, yeah, I've admired you from afar, got married actually, and just before we got married I think that was about the timing. So, yeah, I've admired you from afar and, uh, took careful note that, whilst the family is perhaps, let's say, wealthy in inverted commas but you live as you say in this way, which is true to yourself, not needing to prove anything to anybody, and I think there's lessons to be learned from that, for sure for the listeners today. Covid-19, that hit so hard, and the F&B and hospitality business in particular, got absolutely smashed. What did you learn about resilience and adaptability during that period?

Clinton 29:09

You know, when things started to happen in a little bit in the US and, of course, in China, and then it started out in Europe, in the north of Italy, and I was actually in Italy at that time and I was in Tuscany and I was flying home through Rome Tina said hey, you know, just watch out, because there's all these things happening and we don't know how the extent of it, and everyone had SARS at the back of their minds. I remember flying back from Rome to Changi Airport and when I landed and when we exited, everyone who saw the overhead sign saying arriving from Rome all walked by covering their mouths. I was like, wow, okay. So anyway, in the next two days I caught up with the situation. I decided that it was quite severe and we needed to change and adapt and also not expect that it was going to be like SARS.

Clinton 29:59

Sars hit us hard, but it was very short, and then it went. Many people were waiting and expected it to pass, but life is not about waiting. You never know. We did all the necessary preemptives, as well as hiring and adapt and change, and then, when COVID actually hit and it started to be protracted, we were able to survive. Let me stop you there?

Keith 30:22

Yeah, it's really interesting. You said your reaction was you were hiring. Most people who saw this coming was oh crap, we better cut our costs. That's right. So it's a very different mindset that you had, because you had a clear vision and a clear strategy. You stopped, you thought, you knew you had to do something. You had to create your own reaction, you strategized this and then you decided to go in a certain direction, which meant hiring. So tell us about that, because I saw it, but please share it.

Clinton 30:56

So when I decided that I wanted to take that strategic approach in preemptive response to COVID, so I put it up to the board and the family. And the family said oh my gosh, are you kidding? We need to cut staff, we need to streamline, we need to stop all expenses and cut expenses and do the necessary. And I said it's wrong. Thankfully, I own 50% of the company and I'm chairperson, so I have the last say in a sense. I told them, I said we need to do this and I need to stand firm on my decision. And so their response to me was you took the decision, it's your bad, all right, it's fine. You know it's not the first time.

Keith 31:36

It's happened right and thankfully it worked out, so if it didn't, you were really a dead man, effectively all these.

Clinton 31:47

the markets was down and everything and we reacted. We responded we were the JIT just in time to the region working through and we did the necessary. We had a drop in trade which was B2B, and that drop was first it started out, 80%, then it went to 70, 60, 50, 40. I mean in a sense, but our B2C went up two and a half three times. So overall we grew by two and a half 250%.

Keith 32:14

If you hadn't taken that decision to go B2C, you'd probably not be sitting here talking today. Oh yeah, I would say that Really serious.

Clinton 32:21

Yes, I mean, if you can imagine our business would have dropped 80% with no reprieve 80, 70, 60. 80, 70, 60. I mean we were bled millions right, obviously having to let staff go and everything kind of stuff. Totally different ballgame Pre-COVID we were at 42 in the Singapore team and during COVID we were 60, maybe 58, 60. And now we are 68.

Keith 32:48

And those 42 who were first there. Some of them, I'm presuming, had to adapt their jobs and their scope of work.

Clinton 32:58

Yes, but none of them had any salary changes and stuff like that, because, thankfully, singapore government had a great foresight. We thank the government for for being able to support us the way that they did with the smes and and hiring singaporeans and everything vis-a-vis. You know, we operate in many other countries and many of the countries did, I would say, bare minimum. Yeah, you know, to support. Lots of credit goes to the the government for their support and we are ever thankful to them for that but we ourselves also need to be fighters and survivors and thankfully we did that and because of our growth and normally we generally shy from awards, but because we were so thankful, so blessed to have done so well in 2022, we were nominated for the ASME Entrepreneur of the Year in a special award.

Keith 33:55

Let me correct you. Yeah, that wasn't a we, that was a you. In fairness, you're too humble.

Clinton 34:03

I think it's always a collective effort, right, but I think you know, I reckon that the ASME committee were also very nice. They recognise the ability to change and to foresee and be brave enough to be able to take and make changes. So they gave me the special award for business strategy and I'm thankful for that and because of that I dedicate that to my grandfather, my grandparents and my father, because really they were the catalyst. I always tell people that you know the way that the business is. My grandparents were the ones who planted the seeds. My father was the one who was the catalyst. I am but the laborer. I continue to labor, but I need to labor smart, use technology, use change and adapt and then you become a good labourer.

Keith 35:00

As you said earlier, though, the only constant in business is change. I've worked in companies that are locked, were locked in the past, and it prevented them moving forward, and when that happens, then you have to make a cataclysmic change in order to catch up.

Keith 35:13

So if you haven't continuously reinvented yourself, you find yourself facing change that's forced upon you, and I like this saying about change. You know three types of people or three types of company those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, those that wonder what happened. You're definitely in the first category of that, clinton.

Clinton 35:35

Well, you know, sometimes in life we don't have choices. You know, I always believe that if you don't adapt and you don't change, I don't want to be left guessing, that's still a choice.

Innovation in the Wine Industry

Keith 35:45

Sometimes people choose not to change, and I don't think that that is something that you can do any longer. You cannot. That was something of maybe the 1950s, the last time you could just sit. Still, you can't any longer. What role do values? You talked about family values a few times in different ways, but particularly your family values. What do they play in your decision making as a business leader?

Clinton 36:14

It's very important because you know we're not a listed company, we have no need to thankfully no need to be able to report quarterly results. So I always say that everything we do, we do it for the next generation. So that's number one. Just like our property exposures. If we do buy the leasehold and freehold, we sell the leasehold eventually and then we keep the freehold. The freehold is always there for family In the business sense. Everything that we do when we buy, we always buy with the next generation in perspective. We buy so that they can use it as a unique selling point in the next generation. So that's number one. Number two we always make sure that for the people that work with us, we always believe that it is easy to hire, hard to fire Our aim always in helping all the team that work with us. If you do your part and you work hard and you work smarter, we will do our part. So over COVID time, as an example, we didn't let anybody go, except for those who really didn't do their part.

Clinton 37:21

I mean, I think there's a lot of family philosophies within that we do, and then I also implement and update and upgrade it with my philosophies, because I want everything to be as transparent, and even now I have a will that states within, for the company and for the family and for the family office, what needs to be done for the future and what is the rules, because I don't want to leave it to the next generation.

Clinton 37:54

So you left a blueprint in your will. It's not just a blueprint, it is signed and sealed, because I believe in this. You know, today every person is an individual. Everyone has a different approach and mindset. Why leave it to chance when you, through the best practices of many generations and the current, can set out the blueprint and sign and seal it so that everyone can follow that philosophy and then from there you secure it? At least you know you didn't leave the opportunity for arguments, for dissatisfaction, for failure, for failure For many other aspects that, in a way, the prior generation could have prevented. I have to tell you that the failure of many family businesses today is the result of the prior generation not doing their part, like it or not. They have to take responsibility just as much as the current or the next gen.

Keith 38:54

Both your grandfather and father definitely played their part. Neither of them could have foreseen, let's say, in your grandfather's case, the Indonesian riots. Your father couldn't foresee COVID, although we had a little bit of a test run with SARS. But the thing is you today cannot possibly conceive what might come. So what you're doing, you're giving, I'd say, a blueprint. It's more of a toolbox and a direction to say if you follow these values, you follow this way, whatever comes, you'll be able to deal with it. In essence, right, absolutely.

Clinton 39:29

Every Tuesday, I coach the sales team like 24 of them and everything is documented in the minutes under our strategies and do's and don'ts and everything, and I ask them to keep an archives of that because, at the end of the day, business is about cycles. Yes, and many strategies and philosophies are not new. They are actually from yesteryear. It is a not it is is about adaptation and application. So, as long as you go back to my best practices, my do's and don'ts and we have tried to automate as best as possible, but in the worst case, refer to my minutes it should all be there.

Keith 40:09

90% of it you've seen before in a different form, right? Absolutely Always. The only difference today, I think the cycles move quicker. They've always been there. The cycles have been since the beginning of time, right? I'm going to switch now onto your favourite subject. How do you think the perception and consumption of wine in Asia has changed over the last 20 years, and where's it headed?

Clinton 40:35

next, I think we definitely have seen some trend changes. If you look at the trends, alcohol consumption throughout the world is decreasing, yeah, and if you look at the category of performance, the mass market is going down right. The mid to the super premiums are holding. So where is that going? It means that people are going to drink less, but they're going to drink better. They are also a lot healthier. In many instances where people make wines or spirits that are cutting corners or a little less healthy, less chemicals, et cetera, or more chemicals people are going to shun away from all these things. In general, wines and spirits are facing their most challenging time since I've joined a business which is now 28 years.

Keith 41:29

In simple, terms, are you saying that the organic direction is going to accelerate?

Clinton 41:34

Indeed.

Keith 41:35

And organic. The thing about it is great, but it needs such care, love, attention, focus, experience and all of those things. Yes, this change, this trend. Will that shake out some of the poor players, the corner cutters? Do you think that they might suffer as a result? And quality wins out?

Clinton 41:57

Today, with the approach of the new and the young generation, you will see that I have a saying life is too short to drink inexpensive wine. So, because the mass market wines in the world are, well, they look like wine, with all due respect, they taste a little bit like wine, but they have been highly enhanced with sugar acidity and not necessarily natural acidity, not natural tannins, et cetera. So I would say, at best, the value products that you find in most supermarkets are, in a way, kind of if you look at it in a food terms in a sense genetically modified. They're not what the wine world is all about. The wine world is about natural. It's about doing everything that is natural and allowing God to facilitate a great harvest, et cetera.

The Quest for Natural Sparkling Water

Clinton 42:57

I would say, definitely the pyramid is going up. People will drink less, people will drink better and highly focus on the mid to the super premium. Since 1997, I've always been looking to I applied a sort of analysis for my father. I told him. I said, dad, you're doing a lot of great things with strengths, weaknesses, and understanding opportunities and threats. But the one area of opportunities that I want to explore is non-alcoholic.

Keith 43:24

I'm not a drinker, so it's amazing that you and I are friends for so long when I'm a non-drinker. So when you brought this product I don't like to promote just a product but to San Martino you can say more about about it. I love waters and I can tell the difference between good and bad waters. Like you can wine uniquely. This you can tell more. But I was absolutely gobsmacked to find that the sparkle in there is natural, it's not carbon dioxide or any other additive, and the mineral count is very high. The taste is amazing. So thank you for that.

Clinton 44:00

I like to say that I've been looking for that product for a year.

Keith 44:05

I did tell you.

Clinton 44:08

But you know, this journey started in 1997. I love my wines and spirits, especially wine, but we needed to diversify. When you look at a wine and spirits business, you're really covering only a very small sector of the population. I wanted a product that I could reach out to the masses, of course, and everybody. So when I first started, I started looking at drinks and I started researching drinks with sugar. I take very minimal sugar and I don't think sugar in any amount is good for you. And then I decided that I wanted to look at artificial sugar or substitutes. And when I researched substitutes I realized that substitutes are even worse.

Keith 44:52

Yeah, for sure.

Clinton 44:53

So I said, okay, that leaves water. But when you look at the world of water or bottled water, bottled premium water you have still or sparkling. Where is the fun in drinking still? I mean, seriously, if you're going to pay a product, pay for a product, no way you're going to pay for still. I mean, really, I don't understand people who pay for still. Most people will tell me I'm understand people who pay for still, you, you, somebody. What most people will tell me, I'm just gonna go to the tap and drink still water. I mean, singapore has done a great job with its, uh, the purity of the water, not perfect because you still need economies of scale and whichever, but at the end of the day, not bad compared to many other developing or developed countries. So I said, no, still, there is no fun in still. No, no experience in the palate, nothing.

Clinton 45:38

So I decided from 1997 to 2015, I tasted, golly, must be a thousand sparkling waters. Okay. And the first problem, and I did my research the most people. When you do a survey, they say 80% of people prefer sparkling to still. But the world water market is 80% still, 20% sparkling, and the reason is purely because 99.9% of all sparkling waters are artificially carbonated. So when they're artificially carbonated it makes you bloat Just a little. It's bubbling and if you look at this it doesn't even bubble. So when I started tasting all that thousand straight away, just one mouthful I have rumblings in my stomach, my stomach starts to bloat and like, in a way, like beer, when you drink a lot of artificially carbonated, when your size, when the walls of your stomach starts to grow, it stays there. And if you want to avoid a gut, you know grow, it stays there. And if you want to avoid a gut, you want to go natural.

Clinton 46:42

Firstly, the amazing thing that it was naturally sparkling. And the other thousand, they had no unique selling points, what we call TDS, which is total dissolvable solids. In the past, governments thought that total dissolvable solids were bad, which means it had all kinds of chemicals and solids that were not good for you. Today they are beginning to realize, or they have already realized, that TDS is actually very good when you have the right components, the right amount of potassium, magnesium, sodium chloride and bicarbonates to be able to help your well-being, especially when it's natural. But in general, majority of the sparkling waters in the market have very, very low TDS a thousand and below, which is really low In 2015,.

Clinton 47:27

I said, okay, well, I can't find something that has a unique selling point? And if I can't find something unique, I'm not going to sell it. And that is also my philosophy, right? If I don't drink it, I'm not going to sell it. And that is also my philosophy, right? If I don't drink it, I'm not going to sell it. So I left it.

Clinton 47:42

And then, in 2018, I represent one of the most famous wineries in Sardinia, called Argiolis. They invited me for their 80th anniversary. They insisted on me coming, so I flew out on a Friday, arrived Saturday morning, they picked me up from Cagliari. We went straight to lunch at Agiolis, had a five-hour lunch at five o'clock. They said I'll drop you back, I'll pick you up at seven. And I said what's at seven? I said dinner. I said I just finished lunch, you know.

Clinton 48:10

So I said okay, I need to have a sparkling water, you know, just to refresh myself, get over a little bit of jet lag and everything. And they said well, you're in Sardinia, you must drink the pride of Sardinia, acqua San Martino. I said never heard of it. So I went to the supermarket. I said I'll have a bottle of Acqua San Martino. The lady looked at me are you a tourist? I said yes. I said pride of Sardinia. I said okay.

Clinton 48:34

So I took the exact bottle, I bought a 750 ml PET, I brought it back to the hotel room, I poured it out, I looked at it and I said my gosh, it's not bubbling. They gave me the wrong version. They gave me the still and I said okay, nevermind, I drank it. I was like, wow, in the palate it has such fine bubbles, great minerality on the palate and great minerality on the palate. And then I said okay, come on, let's wait for the bloating Didn't come. I drank the whole 750 ml. One go didn't come. I said, oh, my gosh. I Googled it and I said no way. 50 years of rainwater a thousand meters deep in the volcanoes of Sardinia, naturally sparkling. How can you get that? Never knew it existed.

Clinton 49:18

So I called Valentina, I said I want to go visit and we visited them and I said I want to represent you for all of Asia and they said no. I said why? They said come with me. We went down to the bottling plant. Bottling plant was from 30 years ago. They only could bottle enough for sardinia and so we waited and anyway, we had a great lunch. After that, a lunch, italian lunch, italian sardinian lunch, five hours, I met papa, mama luca and pierre and the whole family and we had a great time. We loved each other. And before we left, papa said me you are my third Sardinian son. And he gave me a San Martino chain and is in my office and he said when I'm ready, you will be the first one. So 2019? And now they weren't ready. 2020, when I went, they weren't ready. Then, after that COVID hit, sardinia was closed down. They said Clinton, it's time. If you are ready, we are ready. So they did the revamp of the bottling plant. It took one and a half years, took a long time. We finally got our shipment in September of 2023.

Advice for Next Generation Leaders

Clinton 50:34

I've been drinking it. Now is my three in one. So it replaces water, replaces soda, replaces isotonic, because it's naturally isotonic without sugar. It was right at a time when I turned 50 and I was 73 kilos, fatty liver, 25% clog in my arteries, okay. And then I just had my medical. The doctor saw I'm now 65 kilos, no fatty liver, 5% clogged arteries. I'm 52 years old and on the scale the doctor says I'm a 40 year old. And he said in his words whatever you've been doing in the last three years since, I've seen you continue, and so I thank God, because Aqua San Martino, god's, water.

Keith 51:20

We're coming to the end, so what I'd like to know from you, clinton, to wrap this up, is what advice would you give to next generation leaders stepping into family businesses today?

Clinton 51:33

In a nutshell I would say they must be prepared to work 24-7. Don't expect well, I would say verification or gratification, because many prior generations they don't know how to say good job or thank you right. You don't rely on that. You know what you have done, you do it and you do it. Remember for the next generation and always do everything in transparency and accountability.

Clinton 52:04

Don't think it is for yourself and don't feel entitled To play an analogy. My grandfather planted it, planted the seeds. My father was the catalyst. Everything I do is because of their efforts. When you always think that too much is because of you, you become centric and that is a problem. Everything must be collective, everything must be for the future and in growth, transparency and accountability, and I always believe that. You know, as my father said, it is a very tough job to do, and he said that it is good that everything tough that happens to you happens when you are young, because you can still get up and you can run If it hits you when you are older, it is much tougher to get up.

Clinton 52:46

Always believe and also have the passion. If you love your job, you wouldn't have worked today. If you don't love what you're doing, it is better to appoint a professional to run it and oversee it at the board level. A family owner of a business does not need to be operationally involved in the business. You can oversee the business from a board standpoint or hire a general manager. You can be managing director. Hire a general manager. Know what your strengths, your weaknesses, your opportunities and your threats are.

Keith 53:24

Know your passion, know your commitment level and don't be afraid to say I can't do it. On that note, clinton. It's been a fascinating, insightful hour that has just whizzed by. We could easily have done two hours on this.

Keith 53:33

You're now closing off the first series of the Power Within. You're now closing off the first series of the power within. This will be the 10th episode, just a heads up. We've committed to series two and series three so we might have you back to see what your view of the world is at that point. Meantime, clinton, and thank you very much, great to see you. Thank you, keith cheers. Thanks for listening to the power within. I hope today's episode inspired you to grow, lead and create the success you deserve. If you enjoyed the podcast, share it with someone who might find it valuable, and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. Join us next time as we explore more stories of leadership and personal growth, and remember that setbacks are just stepping stones to something greater. Until then, stay strong, stay positive and keep believing in the power within.