What If The Best Strategy Is Waiting

In this episode of The Power Within, Keith Power speaks with Alex Knight, founder and CEO of The Whisky Cask Club, about patience, conviction, trust and long-term thinking in a world obsessed with speed.

Alex’s business is built around whisky casks - a product that cannot be rushed. Unlike many fast-moving investments or volatile markets, whisky requires time, provenance, discipline and belief. You may have to wait years to find out whether you were right.

But beneath the whisky story is a much bigger leadership lesson.

Keith and Alex explore what it means to see value before it is obvious, how to build trust in a market many people do not fully understand, why integrity matters when selling alternative assets, and how patience can become a commercial advantage.

They also discuss the realities of entrepreneurship, the role of timing, the importance of provenance, the temptation to scale too quickly, and why some businesses are not built for fast exits -  but for long-term legacy.

In a world that rewards speed, visibility and immediate results, Alex’s story is a reminder that not everything of value reveals itself quickly.

Sometimes leadership means holding your nerve when everything tells you to move faster.

In this episode:
Alex’s unlikely path into whisky casks
Why whisky rewards patience and long-term thinking
How to build trust in an opaque market
The importance of provenance and third-party verification
Why integrity matters when growth is tempting
The difference between fast business and constant business
What whisky casks can teach us about leadership and legacy

Guest: Alex Knight, Founder & CEO, The Whisky Cask Club
Host: Keith Power, The Leadership Philosopher
Podcast: The Power Within

Tune in for an inspiring conversation that will leave you equipped with the tools to lead with confidence, overcome obstacles and unlock The Power Within

email us at: info@motivuscoaching.com

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Transcript

Welcome And The Long Game

Keith 0:00

Welcome to The Power Within, the podcast that uncovers the real stories and strategies behind leadership and personal growth. I'm Keith Power, and in each episode I sit down with inspiring individuals who face challenges, build resilience, and discover what it takes to lead within that. Through their journeys, we'll explore the mindsets and tools that drive meaningful success. If you're ready to grow, lead, and unlock your true potential, you're in the right place. My guest today is Alex Knight, founder and CEO of the Whiskey Cask Club. This is a business built around whiskey casts. As we explore more stories of resilience, growth, and the power of determination? Most businesses are built for speed, quick wins, fast growth, immediate results. But what happens when the entire model is built on patience, when you have to wait years to find out if you were right? Because that's exactly the world my guest today operates in. Welcome to The Power Within. This is the second episode of series three, and we've focused on a conversation about conviction, trust, and long-term thinking in a short-term world. It's about seeing value before it's obvious. It's about building trust in a space not everyone understands. And it's about having the patience and the belief to stay the course when results aren't immediate. Because every founder at some point has that moment. This might not work, I might have got this wrong. Today we're going to explore what it really takes to build something on conviction, how you navigate doubt, where integrity gets tested, and what leadership looks like when outcomes take years, not months.

From Advertising To Whisky Casks

Keith 2:06

Alex, welcome to The Power Within. Let's jump right on in and ask what drew you into the world of whiskey casks, and what point did you realize this was more than just an interesting niche?

Alex 2:19

One of my school friends, his dad owned a distillery. And for many years, I mean he's still a very good friend of mine today. And in 2016 he said You've got you run an advertising agency, which is I did, and I after selling my magazines in 2014. Let's do some advertising for some whiskey cars. I'm like, sure, fine. As a you know, he's my mate, so yeah, give it a whirl. We did very well out of that, and I don't really think much about it again, you know. It was essentially It wasn't a strategic move. Well it became one. Yeah. But it only became one after COVID struck.

Keith 3:02

Right.

Alex 3:02

My advertising agency did a lot of work with companies like Barclay Holmes and Banyan Tree and things like that to to organise events in places like you know, the Fullerton and those kind of hotels do those Saturday events, Saturday and Sunday events. So obviously that all got somewhat killed off when lockdown happened. And so it just became a bit of an idea to my my mate called me and goes, Look, we all need to make some cash. I've got three children that I need to feed uh and keep a roof over my head. So we started going into selling whiskey again. And whiskey is one of those things where you're selling a property but you spend half a million dollars on it or a million, half a million pounds, whatever. It's something that you really want to clap your eyes on before you spend the money. It's it whereas whereas whiskey it's you know it starts from five thousand pounds, it's something you can stick on a credit card. It's a punt if over the phone, over a a zoom call in those days. We're all on Google Meet now, but it was Zooms in the day. And so I'd send samples to people's houses, only in Singapore. And you know, the lockdown gradually got lifted, so you'd meet people, and we were ending up I was ending up selling four or five barrels of the stuff a week, and I thought, hang on, this looks like quite a good business to get into. Truth be told, I've never been an enormous fan of whiskey, and but I am now. You're a fan of most alcohols. It it it's always something to be interested in. The Scots have this very lovely phrase of if you don't like whiskey, it just means that you haven't found the one you like. And over the last eight to ten years, I've found several I really like now, which is pretty helpful saying as that's what I do for a living now

Finding The Market During Lockdown

Keith 5:00

Superb. I have a good friend. You probably know him, he was a previous guest on here, Clinton Ang, and he has to drink is part of his job. But unfortunately, he's uh typical Asian there is something genetic. As soon as he has one drink, he he redens all over. It doesn't stop him drinking at all. But to be working in a space with something that you love anyway, and it sounds like your initial reticence about whiskey versus other drinks, that's gone away because you haven't just found one. You found many that you like.

Alex 5:34

If you don't like the peated whiskies, there's light Highland whiskies, there's Feteken, which is a very light whiskey, which is very lovely. But then you know you discover that that something like a Balveni 14-year-old Caribbean cask is fabulous because it's quite sweet. It's lethal because it tastes like honey.

Keith 5:58

Like the old Alco Pops that were out in the 80s and 90s, right?

Alex 6:02

Well, they've all turned into RTDs now. They're called ready-to-drink cans that you can buy in 7-Eleven. And we're we're developing a line of this at the moment because we think that this is a massive growth uh area. And so we're we're my my colleague Jason and I are going around to all these shops, going, Oh, yeah, we let's buy a few cans of those.

Keith 6:21

Have you also seen I've seen in a couple of the supermarkets now where they are in like pouches but ready to drink pouches rather than a can, and I don't know how successful that is. Sunkist, do you remember? Yeah, exactly the same kind of packaging.

Ready To Drink Trends And Risks

Keith 6:38

So I don't know about Singapore, but the UK, those Alco Pops, as we called them, became quite a problem because they were so attractive to young teenagers and even twins who were drinking because you don't have the usual impact. If you taste a vodka or whiskey or gin the first time, you go, ooh. But there was none of that, so the barrier was removed for them. I wonder if in a country like Singapore they might not seek to control that before it's born probably.

Alex 7:09

Well, you you've got a really good point. And and one one interesting thing about these ready to drinks is that these cans of of alcohol pops, to to use n there's no real better phrase for it, is that they're nine percent. Yeah. And or twelve percent. And you know, they're not they're not it's not like you buy a can of beer and it's four or five percent. These are twice the strength, if not more. Similar to a uh wine in con in alcoholic content. Nearly, yeah. So, you know, it's like buying a you know something that's nearly as strong as a a as a glass of white wine. I mean, if white wine's got soda in it, it's it it sort of the the ABV drops dramatically. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, because the wine typically is between what 12 and 15 percent, depending. So if you dilute it with soda in it, it's gonna have you know the the ABV will drop. So these these cans of Japanese grape or berry flavoured, which some of them taste really good. Yeah, I don't know whether or not Singapore's gonna do anything with it. But it it does seem that it's quite easy for kids to get hold of drink here.

Keith 8:16

I will place a bet here and now, 5th of May 2026, that if this takes off, kids start drinking it, they will clamp down quick, hard, and fast. Yeah, be mindful of that. But if you're heading in that direction, a very good friend of mine, we were at business school together, Andy Mallows, he's got now the biggest bottling plant in Wales. He started out in gin. Now he does everything but the ready-to-drink stuff, squashes and soft drinks, everything I need to connect you to if you're gonna head in that direction.

Alex 8:53

That would be awesome. Because we can get stuff shipped, and also Wales has got some fabulous whiskey now, too.

Keith 8:57

Yes, it's uh Penderyn being the key one. I saw that even on Singapore Airlines I did a couple of years ago.

Alex 9:04

It's pretty good.

Keith 9:05

So you're

Why Casks Behave Like Stable Assets

Keith 9:06

operating in a space that most people, in all honesty, don't fully understand. What did you see early that others were perhaps missing in the space?

Alex 9:17

There's a lot of alternative investments out there, and you know, crypto is particularly prevalent at the moment, and it's a it's a real roller coaster. There are cars people collect, watches, jewelry, all sorts of different things. But they're quite volatile. One of the things that interests me and w with whiskey, the thing that I recognized pretty early on, that when you go into a shop or if you're in the airport, you know, a 10-year-old bottle of whiskey, for the sake of argument, is $100. A 15-year-old one is $200, a 20-year-old one is aha. So and it's pretty consistent across brands. So it's not that McCallan does this uniquely, it's not Balveni does it uniquely. They all do exactly the same thing, which means it's just demand. So if people are going to pay that, they demand it, and therefore there has to be someone to supply it. And all whiskey has to be in a barrel. If something's been 10 years old, it means it's been in a barrel for 10 years. It's not something that you can distill one day and sell the next, like General Vodka, which you know is great if you want to do that. But they're they're considerably cheaper. If you have a if a 30-year-old McAllen, for example, it has sat in a barrel, or possibly it's been moved to a couple of different barrels, but it's been in those barrels in the wood for 30 years. So it's had that time to mature in it, which makes it a very stable product and non-volatile, which is why it interests me the most, because it's not a volatile product. It's not like crypto, which could be $130,000 one day, US, and 60 a week or two later. It's a consistent and relatively linear.

Keith 11:01

One exception, but predictable. I forget what you use as the phrase for the losses as it Angel share. Angel share. So the longer it sits there, of course there's an evaporation process and underway. That but again, it's linear and it's just another calculation. You can predict that.

Alex 11:19

It varies when when it goes in initially, it loses more for the first year or so. Then it but then it it on average it's between one and two percent per annum. So if you're filling a 200-litre American standard bourbon barrel, which is 200 litres, you you're gonna have about half of that left after 20 years. Wow. It depends. I mean, it depends on the storage, it depends if it's you know certain circumstances, but the rule of thumb is that So partially the price increases, the improvement in the complexity of the tasting, but also factoring in that you lose some on the way. And it becomes more scarce because there's lesser. Yeah. So therefore the price goes up even more. That's all calculated in in the pricing of all of these casks. Do you find yourself fighting over the best casks with other people? There have been sometimes, yes.

Keith 12:12

Yeah. You spent a long time in Russia. I don't think you'd have any problem with the fighting part. People are pretty okay with me. Let's be honest, like parts of the whiskey cask market, though, have a reputation for being

Trust, Provenance, And HMRC Oversight

Keith 12:26

opaque. Yeah. Not so clear, even questionable at times. So when you walk into that space, are you building trust or first having to overcome suspicion? And what do people get wrong about that?

Alex 12:41

We tend to start when when a discussion, you know, we talk about the whiskey obviously, but the the provenance is obviously very important. All of our members of Whiskey Cast Club can visit their casks in Scotland at any time. Great excuse for a holiday. Great excuse for a holiday. Good excuse if you have a few drams too. So the provenance is obviously really important. We we talk about the the bonded warehouse nature of it. That's the all all of the bonded warehouses in in Scotland are regulated by HMRC, which is, as you know, it's His Majesty's Revenue and Customs, uh, Revenue Customs and I'm still getting used to his majesty's. When I started it, it was her. Yeah, of course. All of these institu uh you know companies are uh heavily regulated. Obviously, because the tax man wants his penny if any drop leaves the building, they want their cut, don't they? So their eagle eye is paying attention to it. And you know, that's it's it's a big business. I mean, it's it's a multi-billion pound business. So the provenance comes down to the fact that these casks are given to are put in these warehouses. And if you bought one, Keith, it would be in your name at the warehouse, and the warehouse would send you an email saying we've got your cask. Right. So it's not us going here it is. Okay. It's the warehouse, which is the HMRC regulated aspect of it telling you that they've got it, which is third-party verification, which is incredibly critical for all of that sort of thing.

Keith 14:09

And there's no shortcuts around that one, that's for sure.

Alex 14:12

There's no way around the tax man in the UK.

Keith 14:14

Oh, for absolute certain I've been overseas for 25 years, I still haven't escaped his clutches yet.

Alex 14:22

Yeah, I got a call actually during COVID saying I owe the vast amount of money, and I'm like, there's absolutely no way that this is possible. I haven't lived in the UK since 2003.

Keith 14:33

How then does the tax man measure this angel's share?

Alex 14:39

Because it's it's disappearing for them, right? So there's something called regauging that's done. Largely it's the weight. So when a cast goes in, it gets weighed, and it for the sake of argument, let's say it's 400 kilos when it gets weighed or 300 kilos. That means that it's filled with up to the brim, typically, it's roughly about 200 litres uh give or take. As it evaporates, they weigh it again, so it weighs less, therefore they can calculate it. Then also when it gets tipped out, that's when it gets disgorged, they can measure it from there too. So that's all the re-gauging part of it. That it's it it's quite straightforward, and the warehouses have been doing this for hundreds of years. So it's just like a regular recalibration, basically. They don't do it unless it's requested. On some of the odd because I mean there are thirty odd million casks. Wow. Thirty million just in Scotland. Wow. So bearing in mind that every second, forty-four cut bottles of whiskey of Scotch are exported from Scotland every second. That's a billion and a half bottles. So you can do the maths on that. You need about four million barrels a year. So they don't even have 10 years' supply. Oh my goodness. You don't regage them all because it's it's gotcha as as they're being disgorged, as needed. If it's an old cask, if it's a 20-year-old cask, yes, you'll probably want to re-gauge it quite regularly. Because you also need to test the alcohol by volume in it. Should that drop below 40%, it's not whiskey anymore.

Keith 16:14

Whoa. What happens if it does drop below that? What does it become? How is it used? It becomes worthless. Right. So you might as well just drink it. So it's not that worthless. Well, you can't sell it. Yeah, yeah, I get that. So that's but these are all known risks. So what you're saying, if you compare it back to these cryptocurrencies, which are volatile, I know a lot of people living in Singapore who've made millions from it. I've also known people who've almost lost their shirts on that. This at least has this predictability about it. There are factors, but you're an expert, so you know those factors. You can advise your clientele very well. So it demystifies you. So this opaqueness that I referred to, you kind of pull the curtain back on that a little.

Alex 17:07

It's an OTC market. It's you know the equivalent in commodities, is in all it's like the oil market. There's no actual index of pricing.

Keith 17:17

Right.

Alex 17:17

We work with dozens of suppliers and dozens of distilleries. So we've got a good idea of what the actual value of casks is. So if someone offers us something, we can we can price it up pretty rapidly. I mean, it takes me 10 minutes normally to find out, you know, if you've got a cask of 20-year-old Glenn Livett that's got X amounts of litres in it, I can tell you what that's worth pretty quickly. Okay. But you can't go online and find it. Well, you can if you know where to look, but it's not that clear. So what we try and do is keep our clients updated on their pricing of the casks and what the the litre of alcohol value is, price per litre. Which is actually quite straightforward to do. And we that's what we try and lift the lift the the curtain on to some degree.

Pricing, Bottling Timing, And Exit Paths

Keith 18:03

And when uh do you advise bottling time? Is that uh a a calculation or is it a personal thing?

Alex 18:12

It's up to the client ultimately. We've got lots of clients who buy new make spirit, which is not whiskey yet. Right. And it's something that is less than three years old, because it ha whiskey has to be three years old to be called whiskey, you know, under law. Yeah. Most whiskey, I mean, for example, we've got casts of uh Beaumores and LaFroig's at the moment, which are uh you need to sit on them for ten years. However, there could be independent bottlers or blenders out there looking for them to be blended at four, five, six, seven years, maybe. So it depends on what if when someone's exit horizon is number one. And number two, if they want to if they want to bottle it and have it for them or they want to bottle it and have it for themselves, or they just want to sell it and make profit out of it. So it's very subjective to really what people are are interested in at the end of the day.

Keith 19:08

As I understand, and I don't know too much detail, you also work in let's call it futures for want of a better term, through the Whiskey Cast Club, where people are the same as you see. I was in LPG for years. Every liter of LPG that's sold has been traded 20 times, 20 litres for every one liter. Is that a similar environment that you're talking about then? Are you on futures? How does that work? Investment where you're not physically the owner.

Alex 19:37

You are physically the owner, but it's a paper trade. Oh you do actually own the barrel itself, so you can take delivery. The you're right, the it does get traded, and because it is a commodity at the end of the day, we try and buy them directly from the distillery, but if we can't, we buy them from our suppliers. So they've bought it from the distillery. We we're never more than one step away from the distillery. But if a client wants to sell it, then we'll either sell it on to another client, sell it to an independent bottler or or a blender. It can be sold at auction, of course, but yeah, it is a tradable asset at the end of the day.

Keith 20:12

Quite literally a liquid asset. Liquid asset, indeed.

Trading Casks And Staying Close

Keith 20:16

So when you started in the whiskey business, what was the hardest, not commercially, but personally for you? I like drinking.

Alex 20:27

Okay. So it was getting agreement from my long-suffering wife of 30 years to go to get her approval and not groan. She thought it was a scam. She thought it was a terribly bad idea.

Keith 20:44

This was an excuse for Alex to go drinking with his friends. Yes.

Alex 20:48

She she's come to like some whiskies over the years. Oh, that's good. So, you know, I'm converting her slowly. But yeah, that was tough. I mean, you know, and it's it's a business where you have to spend a lot of time with clients, which is is not necessarily the most conducive thing to a happy family. Of course. So I think that that's probably the most the most complicated aspect of it. But I do my best not to annoy my wife too much. Tends to be a good strategy.

Keith 21:19

At

Marriage, Client Time, And A Lost Number

Keith 21:20

this point, maybe you should share. It's one of the funniest stories. So tell tell our listeners how we know each other.

Alex 21:41

About seven years ago, I changed from one telco provider from Singtel or Starhub to somebody else. Right. They screwed it up and I couldn't port my number across.

Keith 21:55

Oh, right.

Speaker 21:56

So I ended up having to get new phone numbers and had. To give up my phone number. Now, my phone number, which is now your phone number, ends in 66. The reason that I chose that number was because at the end of the day, I am an Englishman, and 66 was the last time.

Keith 22:18

Oh, you're still going on about that. 60 damn years ago. I don't know. And more about the Rugby World Cup - I'm Welsh for those that don't know that. So basically, I got Alex's number as the short version of it. So I shared that number with my friend Timothy Boxhall. And he went, Hey mate. He said, That's my mate, Alex's number. I said, Well, it's not now. And we kind of connected. And the good thing is, of course, because I know you, the calls are still coming, often sales leads or whatever. I pass them across. And I've never yet received any compensation, by the way, for that. I do owe you lunch, I think. Lunch together soon. But yeah, it's it's the way you meet up varied, but this one is a pretty bizarre one. But it's a good one. We've known each other, we've met up for food, we've done events together, etc. It's great.

Alex 23:19

It's really it's such a great story, too.

Keith 23:21

It's amazing. Was

Doubt, Cash Pressure, And The Fund Breakthrough

Keith 23:23

there a moment when you thought this might not work? I might have got this wrong. What did that feel like? And what stopped you from walking away?

Alex 23:35

When we were when I just formed a company, it was you know, you know, like everything, it's quite a struggle to get new clients in and find leads for this sort of quite unique asset. And there were times where I where I was thinking, God, this is you know, I I don't know if this is gonna work. I ended up having to think very creatively. Which is when I approached a fund manager company here in Singapore run by a couple of Swiss guys. We realized that the best thing to do was to deal with these hurdles, was to r get a whiskey cask fund going. From some thinking about how am I going to make this work, is it worth doing, to having some to be the exclusive supplier to the whiskey cask fund became that moment of inspiration out of some some real mind-racking to figure out how to make it work or whether or not it was worth doing. And so that fund really gave us the push that we needed and the credibility to to really push the company hard. So you deal with Swiss bankers and investors, taxmen.

Keith 24:46

Oh my gosh. Is this a business you really want to be in? Oh, we didn't even touch on that. I imagine that that's an expensive part of owning a cask.

Alex 24:59

Actually, funnily enough, it's not. When you buy a cask of whiskey from Whiskey Cask Club, you get five years of free storage, which includes the insurance that's provided by the bonded warehouse. If people have very expensive casks, which some do, we suggest taking independent insurance for it. But it's I think £600, roughly £1,000 for up to £100,000 worth of insurance per year. Okay. So it's not that bad, but it doesn't take into account angel share and things like that, obviously. Of course.

Leading For Patience And Generational Value

Keith 25:32

So the the Whisky Cask CLub is is built around long-term value. How has that shaped how you think uh and lead compared to more short-term, fast-paced industries?

Alex 25:46

I think that people realize that they've got to be patient with this. This isn't a quick in and out. There there is trading that can be done. I mean, we do trade whiskey casks, so that that's a short turnaround. But most of this is a five to ten year hold. And I think that that anyone who's getting involved in it, I mean, we explicitly say that this isn't a in and out, you know, within a two-year period. You've got to hang on to it for at least three years. Because if you don't and you want to sell it, and if you sell it through us, we charge a you know, a an exit percentage. Understandable. We've got to pay our salespeople. I think people who get into this understand it's not something that you can easily trade, and it's something that you've got to have to sit on for a period of time. But i it it also breeds the fact that it's not volatile.

Keith 26:36

Yeah, yeah.

Alex 26:37

And it is a long-term asset. I mean, you can trade real estate, but again, you you it's slower, slower.

Keith 26:43

And has costs attached to it. Exactly. It's very similar. But I was more getting to the point, your background in publishing and and advertising has a much faster moving environment than this. So, not so much from a client perspective, but now you build in a team of people around you. How do you inculcate with them this patient approach, a different way of working? It it in Singapore terms, it's slow, it's not exciting, it's unusually. Owning it is a pleasure, etc. But the excitement and the pressure doing things quickly is not there so much. How do you lead differently now than when you were in advertising and publishing?

Alex 27:27

We have a lot of parties, which is always quite a good thing to do. My team is comprised of old bankers, uh, largely, and and you know, people in the in the in in those kinds of industries, finance industry, working with these people. It is it's a it's a different pace altogether, but everyone's eye is on the prize, which is to make this company into something that we could potentially turn into a generational project. That's what is in it for us in terms of with the team and how to get people to really stay interested in it long term. And maintaining integrity through that period. Exactly. Because I mean, if we do this correctly, I don't want to sell it to somebody particularly. I'd rather have, you know, my my I got three kids, and you know, they're they've all shown an interest in in taking part in it at some point because they see that this is a it's something that you know if you have an asset like this, it's something that AI can't really replace. Yeah, for sure. The middleman's been cut out of stocks and shares of equities. Banking, we're we're all online now. You don't really need bankers anymore, particularly. I mean, obviously, large companies that are doing futures trading, it's slightly different. But even then, the futures desks have all gone from all the banks around the world. So, you know, you you've got a situation where you've got a team that knows that if we if we do it all correctly and we make sure that the exits happen in the way that clients want them to do, the people will reinvest in this as a long-term play, uh, and and we'll be able to set up a lot more of the and build the fund that we have and turn it into something that's much larger and more tangible. It doesn't have to be fast business, it's just got to be constant business.

Keith 29:17

When you are looking for staff, how does that pan out in Singapore for you? Finding staff who are able to see that vision, see that way, see that way of working. They like the parties, that's the easy part. How do you differ in your approach in if you were looking for a new sales guy, for example?

Alex 29:39

It's tricky. There's no doubt about it. And but there is good money to be made in it for salespeople because we pay pretty decent commissions. It always tends to be bankers or or finance guys, because they see the longevity in this kind of project. So we don't we've never had any salespeople who've been doing FMCG, for example, like that.

Keith 30:01

So you don't have young whippersnappers.

Alex 30:03

Well, looking at I think the youngest member of the team is about 40. I feel good now.

Discipline, Integrity, And Market Sharks

Keith 30:09

Now, there's a a romance in whiskey, of course, but it's also hard, has some hard commercial realities. How do you balance, we've talked a lot about the passion, with disciplined decision making. Because this is your business, right? As much as you love the party and then the connections, etc., we're all in this to make money in the longer term. So how do you balance this passion you have with the disciplined decision making?

Alex 30:36

When we sell casts of whiskey to people, we're very clear on the idea that when they exit, they need to make a good return on their investment. So our discipline is making sure that we're selling casks that we know will have a good exit at the end of the day. There's a lot of cheap stuff on the market. It will be impossible to sell that in five years' time. I mean, it'll end up going into some blend somewhere and end up not making much money on it. And that's the thing. So we our discipline is making sure that we choose the right casks to sell to people. Because I refuse to sell something that I know will be a very difficult or niche sell in a few years' time. I want them to be able to easily exit their casks.

Keith 31:20

So one thing is coming through, you've not used the word, so I'll use it for you, much more than I thought before we started this interview, is integrity seems to shine through all of this, and it really matters because the because it's opacity of the product, you need to have the trust. And it sounds to me that you're embedding things, even if you're not thinking about it in this way, in integrity. And having bankers join in, and everything about it shines integrity to me, which was the opposite to what someone looking in from the outside might have thought.

Alex 31:58

How how does that land with you? There are a lot of sharks in this market, there's no doubt about it. There's last year there were a couple of big companies that went bust uh that weren't selling that were selling casts that didn't exist. One of them, a company called Brayburn, was had a company listed here in Singapore. And those guys are uh, you know, it caused ripples in the market. So our job is just to make sure that whatever we do is real uh and has you know, the the clients have the ability to go and see their casks and to draw whiskey from them. I mean, because they're there, they're real. Do you organise trips by the way? We have done, yeah. Right. They're very dangerous.

Keith 32:45

I bet. I don't know if you know Clinton, my friend, but you should meet each other. He periodically goes to Scotland because he's a massive golfer and he loves whiskey, so it's a long and very expensive trip for him. He's asked me to go, but these days I'm pretty much a non-drinker again. I've told you that story. So as this grows, though, there's always a temptation to move faster, to sell more, scale harder. Where's the line where growth starts to compromise this integrity? And have you ever come close to crossing it?

Alex 33:20

No, and we've no intention to do so. The the the this is the good thing about this business is that the sky's the limit on that. The whiskey industry is worth tens of billions of pounds a year. And so, you know, if we have even a small percentage of that, I'd be very happy. The to be also part of selling such a great export that the UK has. I mean, it's it's we've got some really great stuff in the UK, and you know, we were talking about Welsh whiskey also earlier, and some great English whiskey, but the granddaddy's Scotch. Yeah, for our Irish listeners, that's pretty good as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's pretty good. The fact is that this is a business that can scale you know infinitely largely. Yeah, because there's so 30 odd million casks under maturation in Scotland, so even a tiny percentage of that is a lot of whiskey. Would could we would we break our integrity over something like that? I don't think it's really worth it. I think it's worth building something that in 30, 40 years, when I'm uh no longer around, it's still operating, it's got you'll be around a lot longer than that.

Keith 34:26

You're pickled from the inside, for goodness sake.

Founder Identity And Power Within

Keith 34:29

So, Alex, which part of this business is you and what part of it is uh performance, what you think a founder should look like?

Alex 34:41

I mean, I think my job is to be the figurehead of the company. Right. And to to you know ask customers questions, answer customers' questions if they have them. Obviously, to do my song and dance at at all these whiskey tastings that we do, but to let the team get on and do their jobs and just be there and to to make sure that that everything's running smoothly and keep my eye open for new opportunities. I think that's kind of one of the most certainly for me, it's always about what's the next opportunity, what's the next great cask? Because there's consistent you know, casks of Khalila, for example, New Make, which is great because Khalila's a lovely whiskey, it's a smoky isla. We look for those sorts of things. What what's what's the next one out there that that we can get our hands on? Are there new suppliers we should be working with? You know, is our bonded warehouse the the bonded warehouse we're working with? You know, everything in all the city. Is it bonded warehouse in UK or in Singapore? It's all in Scotland. All in Scotland. Whiskey is only whiskey if it's bottled, Scotch whiskey if it's then bottled in Scotland.

Keith 35:43

So And I forget which is which, but which one has the E in the whiskey? Is it the Irish or the Scottish? I always mix them up.

Alex 35:49

If it's on the island of Britain, it has no E. So Welsh whiskey does not have an E. Same.

Keith 35:57

So it's it's only now my brother started tracing our family tree a number of years ago, and we found a very direct link, not some sinuous one, but a very direct link with a power distillery. I just wonder if I should be tapping them up for my share. Absolutely. I would call myself an angel and take my share. So if the business disappeared tomorrow, no whiskey cars club, Alex, who are you without it and how comfortable are you with your answer to that as well?

Alex 36:35

It would be very sad, obviously. But I do have a uh I publish multiple websites, so I'm I'm I'm pretty okay with all doing all of that sort of thing. And I have the advertising side of it behind me too. If I was to win the lottery and end up in Tahiti, for example, would it be a terrible thing? Yeah, well, I'd miss it, actually. Uh and but because I like the business. You'd be bored in Tahiti.

Keith 37:00

Bored to death. Yeah, for sure.

Alex 37:02

And you know, the whiskey business is fun. You get to meet some really interesting people, you get to try some amazing whiskies, and and it's not just the the 150 odd distilleries that they are there are currently in Scotland. It's all the finishes that the whiskey get put into. So there's you know, if if it if if I wasn't involved in it, I wouldn't be trying as many different varied finishes and different whiskies, and I'd miss that.

Keith 37:28

So that that was an upside that you never saw coming. No. Basically. When you look back on your journey so far, what have you discovered about your own power within?

Alex 37:40

Abstention or lack of I'm a better negotiator now than I used to be. A much better negotiator. Having been running this operation for uh some years now, I can spot nonsense a mile away. Right. My general cynicism meter is is much more finely tuned nowadays. I find that I get a lot of power from my team, who are uh you know some consummate professionals, and you know I I I I get the electricity from them, which I I like to channel into what we're doing as a company and who we work with and and and you know who our clients are. Come back a little.

Keith 38:21

You said about this that you've become a better negotiator. What do you attribute that to though? They having to buy things from the Scots. For those who are not familiar, if you're a Brit, if you're from the UK, we all have jokes about the the different parts of the UK, and the the Scottish are known as being particularly careful with money and exceptionally good negotiators. Exceptionally good negotiators. So you've learned from the best. I have indeed.

Alex 38:52

And I've got a lot of respect for our Scottish brothers. Same mellow Celts for me. Well, my I'm half Scottish, so my mum was Scottish, so it's top, bottom or left-right.

Keith 39:04

Well, I've just sent off for a DNA test kit to find absolutely all of my origins, and I know there's going to be some English dotted around, and then I'm dreading that finding. My half-sister's mother was from Wales, so I knew there was something about you I liked. But my grandfather on my mother's side was born in a village that switched England to Wales as a border town, and on his birth certificate, it lists the address as England today is in Wales. So when I saw that, literally my heart sank. Let's go on. Right.

Quick Fire Lessons And Final Thoughts

Keith 39:42

This has been fun already, but even more fun part now. Some quick fire questions for you. Don't think. Their team.

Alex 40:01

One mistake that taught you the most. A bad cask purchase, which I ended up having to eat the cost of.

Keith 40:08

Patience or instinct, which matters more in the world? Patience. One word that defines your business. Fun. For sure. And the moment that you almost walked away.

Alex 40:20

When I'd run out of cash. Generally that's a good reason, right? But then I had a client that came in and did a very nice deal which saved the day.

Keith 40:29

Saved you. Took you from the lion's jaws, so to speak. Very much so. And if your business were a person, what three words would describe it? Tall leggy blonde. I like that answer, but no, we leave it. I think that's good. Now, you, Alex Knight. Three words to describe you. Drink less needed. Alex, it's been a pleasure, as always. Thank you very much for coming in. Thank you so much, Keith. It's been a real real pleasure indeed. It's been an eye-opener for me. Thanks a lot.

Closing Reflection And Subscribe Reminder

Keith 41:06

Today's conversation with Alex is a reminder that not everything of value reveals itself quickly. In a world that rewards speed, visibility, and immediate results, there's something powerful about choosing patience, about staying the course when outcomes are uncertain, because leadership isn't always loud. Sometimes it's holding your nerve when everything else tells you to move faster. The willingness to trust your judgment before the world catches up. Alex, thank you for joining me. And if this conversation resonated with you, don't forget to like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Until next time, this is The Power Within.