On the Mark: Dr. Laurie Mullen & Dr. Jessica Shiller

Towson University College of Education Dean Laurie Mullen and Dr. Jessica Shiller join President Ginsberg to discuss teacher preparation, educator retention and TU’s impact as home to Maryland’s Center for Community Schools.

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You're listening to a Towson University podcast. Welcome to On the Mark, where we have candid conversations about meaningful and consequential work happening here at Towson University. I'm Mark Ginsburg, president of TU located in Towson, Maryland. And on this podcast, we're introducing you to members of our university community who are engaged in high impact teaching, research, and student success practices. We have two very inspiring guests with us today, Doctor Laurie Mullen, who's dean of Towson University’s College of Education, as well as Doctor Jessica Schiller, a professor of education in our Department of Instructional Leadership and Professional Development and also director of the Maryland Center for Community Schools. TU is home to Maryland's oldest, and one of the nation's most respected colleges of education. At TU, we prepare more educators in our state than any other university, and under Dean Laurie Mullen's leadership, TU’s education programs have consistently been ranked among the top in the state and among the most respected in the nation by U.S. News and World Report. Dean Mullen and Doctor Schiller are two of Maryland's most devoted leaders, to our education in support of our students, in our P-12 and higher education systems. And I'm excited to have them with me on today's episode. Laurie and Jessica, thank you. Thank you both for being with me today. So why don't we start with, kind of a basic question. And, Jessica, maybe the first one is for you to talk a little bit about what are community schools and, and perhaps also how is it that you personally and TU became so interested and involved in this important movement? Yeah. Thanks for having me, Mark. Appreciate the question. Community schools are hubs of their community. They offer wraparound services to families and students. And the whole idea behind community schools is to really try to address the out of school needs that families and, young people have so that we can mitigate the impact of poverty on learning, because we know that, concentrated poverty, which is grinding, adversely impacts the ability of students to learn and families to thrive. So community schools really try to, step into that space and address the problems that we see, outside of the school by providing all kinds of services from health care to, mental health care, assistance with housing, and and a variety of other programs, afterschool programs, enrichment, a variety of other things, to support kids. You know, it seems to me that even early on with some of the school reform reformers even going back to Dewey and others, there was talk about schools not just being centers or hubs of education, but centers and hubs of development. And and then in the 90s, the I think, at least as I recall, back in my reading and learning that, important book Full-Service Schools by George Rufus, yeah, was kind of a catalyst in a way. How, how much of an important boost did those kinds of things give to the genesis of a community schools here in Maryland? Also, a great question. Yeah. So community schools, people involved in the work actually trace their roots to John Dewey and even Jane Adams, interesting. Cole House in Chicago. Yeah. Of course. And so, that, that early work really got, you know, for going deeply into the history, got, a boost in the in during the Great Depression and even the 1960s, when we had interesting beacon schools and, you know, like, you know, schools that were open on weekends and, and in summertime, and, and Joy, Joy Dreyfus's work was critical. And, you know yeah, I remember that book kind of amplifying, some of the work of what we call the full service community schools. That's right. And community schools see their role very, very differently. Right. They provide meals to kids. First and foremost, they often have food pantries for families, to come and get food, fresh produce and other things, and for kids to take food home on the weekends. They often have a host of other services during the day barber shops, laundry, all kinds of things, to support the kids in the families because community schools could have start from this premise that we really need to address the Maslow's hierarchy of needs before kids are able to learn. So child who is hungry can't learn. The child who has shoes that don't fit your feet are hurting. You probably can't concentrate on what's being said. You're concentrating on your feet. So how would you tell us a little bit about some of the key and critical services that that you've been trying to embed in schools here in Maryland? Yeah. So what? Well, what we do, is we try to, ensure that the folks working in the community schools fully understand the whole strategy. Yeah. So that they understand how to partner with families, how to engage with nonprofits that can help support the services, that they're offering and how to really engage in what we call collaborative leadership. So they're these partners are not just people coming to supply services, but they're really engaged in the school. And so they can help make decisions. You know, really provide some critical information and data back to the school. So, what we're doing is really providing some of that, support and professional learning, technical assistance, for community schools going forward. Also, now that we have so many of them, we're in this stage where they're tracking their own data, they're looking at school improvement every year. Yes. And so we're supporting with that kind of thing as well. So it sounds like the school becomes much less of an island, so to speak, in the community and much more of a hub for the community, much more of the center for the community. Laurie Mullen, Dean Mullen, the dean of the College of Education. Laurie you've been really supportive and wanting to bring these kinds of community based services into our College of Education. How is it that the marriage happened between the work of the college and the community, engaged work of community schools, having professors like like Jessica? Certainly it's one way, but it's part of a larger philosophy, it seems. Yeah, I my one of my jobs as Dean is to to know what my faculty are interested in, to do what I can in the scope of what I can with the resources I can to advance that work. And really, when I came to Towson in 2015, this was an area of interest for for Jessica. And really at that time, probably the only faculty in the college of Education who was deeply interested in this. So Jessica had prior grants, that would allow our students to go out and do field work in community schools, which and again, I know that we've talked about this before, but community schools really is a different form of education in general. I mean, I think it's important that that we try to view it that way. And again, we have still a range of community schools and what that means, they're probably still on a spectrum, but in its best form, it really is a different form of of how we educate. But I would argue that it's not new, it's that it's the recognition that schools belong and communities and communities, have to be healthy. Yeah, that's a good point. healthy organizations. Good point. And I know later on we're going to talk about teacher retention. But one of the areas, where we see the importance of why teachers stay is the the sense of which they feel they are part of a community. Yes. And the extent to which schools are healthy organizations where teacher voices are heard and recognized and the community is part of that. And again, we used to have that type of model in our country, I would argue, in our in our attempt to be scientific about education, I think one of the things that we've walked away from is this notion of a soul of a school. And I would argue that we could do both. We could have high standards for children, and have a good sense of community where teachers feel empowered. And we're school, community members have a role in all of education, right? That the dentist in the town feels a commitment to the schools. The banker in the town feels a commitment to the schools and the extent to which we can return to that. Which is why I'm so proud of the work that Maryland is investing in and that the center is investing in. Is that recognition that we have to go back to, that we cannot move away from the school as an island, as you just said. But it has tentacles. It has strong tentacles to the community. And our teachers have to learn that our new teachers have to learn they are not alone in their classroom. They should rely on their colleagues, and they should rely on the community, to have a healthy place for children and for the adults in the school And again, there's literature Mark around the notion of why, of teacher retention, teacher well-being. And that if you look at it from a from an organizational theory, one of the things we know is that teachers stay when they feel like they have a voice in the school, and when they feel that they have autonomy in the school. And So there's lots of reasons to be doing lots of reasons to be doing this. Yeah, yeah. Jessica, tell us about the impact of community schools. And because one of the things I think members of the public are always asking us is, how are our students doing? How well are they learning? How well is the school contributing to their overall development? And I wonder if you can address that to two levels. One is, what the data is telling us about the academic achievement, performance of students, what is also telling us about the well-being of our students, as well as Dean Mullen just talked about the the school community, the teachers and the school leaders, even the PTA and other form, other elements of the school community. What do we know? What we know now is that community schools are having a great impact on young people. They're improving, our attendance rates. So that's a big concern across the state in the country. Right. Chronic absenteeism soared, during and after the pandemic kind of remained persistent, said community schools are, really cutting the rates of, chronic absenteeism and increasing the, average daily attendance of, of young people across the state of Maryland. And and attendance has been a huge problem in schools and in Baltimore City. We know that it's truly a huge issue of of truancy being, a major deficit to kids learning. So many schools are addressing that, perhaps not accidentally, but but peripherally in a sense. Absolutely. So we've done some analysis of the state data and have shown really positive gains there. We've also shown really positive gains around something called school climate. There's a school climate survey that goes out every year. And we're seeing incredibly, positive, signs in terms of, young people feeling, safe at school, feeling welcomed. And feeling a sense of belonging, which are very important to learning. You cannot really make progress, academically if you don't feel a part of the learning, community, if you don't feel safe at school, especially, kids don't learn. We know of that. And interestingly, in Baltimore City, there have been there has been more progress, around academic achievement than there has been, and many other districts around the state. And I, we haven't actually we can't make the causal, relationship, right? We can't ever really, in research, make that determination. But I don't think it's an accident that Baltimore City is every school, and Baltimore City is a community school, every school in every school. Now, let's say that one more time, every school and community in the city of Baltimore now is a community school. That's right. And That's a big commitment. It is a big commitment. And they feel very strongly about it and are very committed to the work. And they're making some of the biggest gains academically across the state. Now, I'll just say with a caveat that, you know, we're still struggling academically in schools, since the pandemic. We're not, you know, on fire out there. So I don't want to make any kind of claims that people will take away and say, hey, you know, community schools are, producing major academic gains. It takes a long time to see those. Sure. Sure. But I did want to point that out around Baltimore City, because I think it's very interesting, to see that correlation between the investment in community schools and academic gains. So we're talking about schools that have become community schools. You're also the leader in the director of the Maryland Center for Community Schools, which is a, relatively new, no, a year old center here on the Towson University campus. So talk a little bit about the the center and what you're doing and how it evolved. And I know it was funded, has been funded and supported by the Maryland General Assembly. Yeah, we're really lucky to have had that commitment. There are over 600 community schools in the state. And so the 600, wow over 600, over 621, to be exact, and growing. and growing and growing and, and our work at the center has really been focused on professional development and technical assistance and producing research, around the impact of community schools. And over the course of the year, we've been able to engage folks across the state. We have a certificate program that's training folks in and ten different districts. We've got a peer to peer mentoring program for community school coordinators that's reaching folks in seven different districts, communities of practice which engage our district leaders across the state. And, the practice of community schools representing eight different districts. So we're really, we have a broad reach, and impact in our work. We have a webinar series. We had a big conference last week that brought 300 folks to campus, here at Towson University. At Towson. Great. To talk about, and elevate the work. We gave a community champion award. And that was really exciting. And we're like I said, we're producing, research and research that's actionable. We've been producing research briefs this year around the data that I shared with you, a few minutes ago. And we're sending that right to the legislature, to make the case, the continued case for community schools, and to the public so that we can really communicate to them, how powerful this is. And community schools is one of the five pillars of the blueprint for the future of Maryland. And, really pleased to know, at least as the state legislative process continues, there is now continued support for community schools as part of the the state budget package. And that's a big deal during an era where where state funds are being challenged in terms of their amount, where we're having a significant budget deficit in the state to invest in our schools and to invest in schools that have community schools is really a sound investment indeed. We're really grateful for that. Let's talk a little bit more generally about education. And one of my favorite quotes, and that's been used and probably overused is, Nelson Mandela, who has said that education is the most powerful weapon you can use to change the world. Laurie, you're leading the largest school of education in Maryland, a school that historically has for decades been the largest leading and most respected college of education in our state. Yet at the same time, we've seen a significant decline in the number of students, not just here at Towson, but throughout the country. Going into the field of education. What what's happening in teacher prep and what are some of the areas that that both are a concern to you and maybe a double barreled question, what are some of the things that are most exciting to you that are going on in our Ed prep here? It's a complicated question, and I think people ask that they often, and I'm not saying that you are, but they want a very simple answer to that. Yes. I will speak directly to Maryland. And as a reminder, we had a, alum who graduated, over 50 years ago where the state paid the state of Maryland, paid for the full ride for people to come to teaching. And so, that deep commitment to the workforce of Maryland, I think has slowly been forgotten. I was at a conference recently and said that out loud, and people came up later and said, I, I didn't know that. So Maryland has a deep, history of investing in, in the workforce. We have to also remember that the workforce of teaching nationally and probably internationally has traditionally been, a female workforce. Yes. Now, as a woman, I'm happy to say that women are seeing a range of, of of opportunities at one time, as we all know, the, the options for women as they came to university was teaching or nursing. Well, that has greatly expanded, which is fabulous. But what we haven't seen is, men, kind of fill in that back end. So we have fewer, young people, older people interested in teaching because of the range of other vocational options, which which is great. That's one issue. Another issue is we have to be very aware that our young people are listening to media. They're hearing the critiques of school. And to be frank, they're hearing the critique of teachers, which I think, has been unfair, to what we were just speaking of earlier, the schooling of children. The health of a community is much, much broader than one teacher in a classroom. And so if schools need help and no doubt, some of them do, it's the it's much larger than the teacher in the classroom. So we do have youngsters who are saying, you know, my family is telling me not to go into teaching. Right. So that message is getting is getting out there. However, and while our numbers are down, since Covid in the College of Education at Towson, as it is nationally, everyplace it is nationally, we are still producing, about 40% of the teachers in Maryland. 40%? 40 from Maryland come from TU, which is huge, which is That’s a big deal. a big commitment that the university has had to educator preparation. The retention is also an issue. And we recently received some information. As you all know, the blueprint requires a Maryland Longitudinal Data system to to report on teacher retention. And I'm really happy to say that, Towson students lead the lead the state average for, for being retained in schools. At year three, we have significant retention of our students in schools. Now, why is that? And, again, I'm not saying that their preparation is the sole reason, but sometimes we do. People make the argument that teachers are leaving schools because of their preparation, and I think that's an unfair argument. I think that there's a range of reasons why teachers leave schools. And I want to be really clear. I think that Maryland institutions do a great job preparing teachers. And I know we do here. So we see a reduction Mark. There's a range of reasons why young people don't want to do it, but I will say that that picture is bigger than the recruitment side. do teachers have voice? Do they have any influence on curriculum? Are they seen as part of solution making? And unfortunately in many schools they're not. And to add layer on to that, because of the presence of conditional teachers, which I am thankful every day that we have folks who have coming in to help our schools. But we do see our teachers becoming scripted in the curriculum. So we're asking the best and the brightest to come into a profession where they don't have autonomy and so we have to worry about that and not this is not a Towson University issue, but I would like to for us to engage policymakers on this larger issue that is the future. I think of retention. You mentioned conditional teachers, another important issue for Maryland, some districts in Maryland have 30 or 40% of their teacher corps who are conditional. What we mean by conditional is they have some, credentials. They have had some, if a college degree, they might have some post-graduate graduate level courses, but they're committed to teaching with a modicum of experience and training in education. They're teaching in our schools with the idea that they would eventually become certified, or that's the hope. Talk a little bit about some of those challenges, but well, as well as some of those opportunities in terms of the way in which we can both engage, our current students, our prospective students, and also those who have an interest in education, who we can keep in the field. So I would argue that any healthy organization, which I think the College of Education is, has to have a broad palette of who we serve. Okay. You know, at one time we did recruit that 18 year old only, but but no more. If you look at who our students are, we served the traditional 18 year old, but we serve the conditional teachers you spoke of. We have changed the programs and how we serve those teachers. So if those teachers are working in a school right now and in our programs, we've changed what we ask them to do to be specific to their coursework. We don't ask them to do random assignments that are in no way, interfaced with what they deal with every single day. We've changed how we supervise them. They need a very different level of touch and support from a university. And so I'm proud of the college in that our faculty are willing to change what we do to meet the needs. Another workforce entity similar to conditional teachers is our recent work with paraprofessionals. And these are individuals who work inside of a school classroom in collaboration with a teacher of record. And what we're finding is, we have more and more district partners who are interested in being having an MOU with us to bring those paraprofessionals to licensure as well. These are not 18 year olds, 19 year olds, or 20 year olds. These are folks who have deep roots in the community. Many of them, look more like the school children that are in our schools right now are more diverse, have different life experiences and other challenges bringing people into schools who represent the community that they're serving and that we know will stay. that have deep commitment to those. So the College of Education has really changed what we are doing. But Mark, you raised a really important number earlier. We have 6000 conditional teachers. So we have to find a way as a state to work together and to not try to point fingers but say, how do we work together to support these these folks who are ultimately in front of our children and our youth. The other thing you're saying, too, is that we need to at least I think you're saying that we need to be able to do that in innovative ways, that the models and the approaches that we take with our first year freshman at the university. That's right. We can learn from some of those approaches, but that may not be the approach. But again, it's not a one size fits all. Just like a teacher would say in the classroom. You see who's in front of you. You don't have one strategy that serves everyone. You see who who is interested and you change what you do to match that need. There are some models out there that, you've pioneered that TU has pioneered, but also of the universities around the country that's think about to bring greater innovation. That's right into the teacher ed profession, if you will. we have probably more, memorandums of, of understanding with districts across the country where we, work with the school district. The school district says we'd like a, cohort of teachers in reading. We'd like, Masters of arts and teaching. We'd like special education students and Towson Learning Network works with the district to, work within the negotiated rates. So teachers very often inside of a district don't have to pay anything or very little. Jessica's department has these types of of MOU’s, so Towson really is a leader in the state in that area, and school districts know that. They know that they we have a seamless route to, professionalize their teaching staff. So really, what you're both saying kind of, in summary, is that community schools give us, a point of influence and a platform that is bringing different kinds of, of, of ways of thinking into our schools, bringing a range of services, a range of opportunities for our students into the schools. At the same time, the College of Education here at Towson, Laurie, with your leadership for trying to bring more and more people into the field as well as to keep more and more people in the field. But but knowing that it's not just bring people into the field, it's understanding they need to be well trained. They need to be carefully supervised. They need to have the tools and resources in order to be successful. So, you know, I, I make a summary statement is that of all the work that's being done across the country, there probably is nothing more important than continuing to energize the educational establishment from pre-kindergarten to the earliest of years, which, you know, I have a great interest in, not just as an educator, but also as a grandparent. But education doesn't stop with the classroom door either begins or ends that we need to work increasingly with our communities and across all the spectrums of learning and development. That's kind of what I'm hearing you both both say this morning, And there's some fabulous work going on in Maryland. I just feel the need to say that, I mean, in the P-12 level, our teachers and our leaders, and I encourage folks to, you know, we hear a range of things in the media, but go, go visit a local school. Our teachers and our school leaders are doing amazing work with children. Get involved, stay involved. Know that the involvement of community members in schools is not only important, it's a critical element. And valuing inspiring and supporting our children. There's nothing there's no better task. Yeah, Well I'm really proud here at Towson University. This, as I said earlier, we have not only the largest, but the leading the College of Education and in our state and certainly one of the leading and most respected colleges of education in the country. And that's because we have faculty who are committed to doing the right things and doing things well and doing things right. So thank you both for joining me today. Jessica Schiller the director of the Maryland Center for Community Schools, professor of education at Towson University, doctor Laurie Mullen, the dean of the College of Education and one of America's leading leading teacher educators. So thank you both for joining with me on on the Mark. It's been a great discussion. I hope you've enjoyed listening to us and look forward to you joining us on the next On the Mark podcast coming up soon. Thanks so much. Thanks for having us. Thank you for listening to On the Mark. If you like what you've heard, please give us a follow or leave a review. It helps ensure that we can keep bringing you more candid conversations about the consequential impact of higher education. And if you have feedback about our podcast, feel free to send me a message at onthemark@towson.edu. Edu. Founded in 1866, Towson University is a top ranked comprehensive public research university recognized as Maryland's number one public institution by The Wall Street Journal. As Greater Baltimore's largest university TU proudly serves as an engine of opportunity for nearly 20,000 students, the state of Maryland and beyond. Explore more than 190 top ranked undergraduate and graduate degree programs and make our momentum yours at towson.edu