Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
In Studio: Robert Smith
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Got a question or a tip? Send us a text
Robert Smith, former Columbus mayor and current president of the Columbus Municipal School District, offers insights on local education, environmental concerns, and city politics while reflecting on his own leadership philosophy.
• CMSD faces another superintendent search after Dr. Ellis' unexpected resignation
• The district has improved to a B rating but continues struggling with declining enrollment, dropping from 5,100 to around 3,000 students
• Franklin Academy's future remains undecided though local businessmen have expressed interest in redevelopment
• The R.E. Hunt renovation is nearly complete with a grand opening planned for July
• How Smith navigated Columbus' weak-mayor, strong-council government system
• Robert Smith discusses his relationships with Leroy Brooks and his mayoral endorsement of Stephen Jones
• Smith's thoughts on his legacy
Episode Introduction
Speaker 1From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 2This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity and our reporting will always reflect that. And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3Welcome back. Welcome back. You are listening to Between the Headlines, but first in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. Do you need help achieving the right look in your house? At Lighting, unlimited and Uncommon Living, you'll find quality, unique pieces that will elevate your home instantly. Great furniture and lighting not only reflect a style, they also define a home. With lighting, unlimited and uncommon living. You can expect more. Visit them at 1116 Gardner Boulevard or online at lighting-columbuscom. And now a message from political candidate Bill Strauss.
Speaker 4This is Bill Strauss, your 2025 candidate for mayor of Columbus. As election time draws near, ask yourself are you satisfied with our city leadership? What has been done to eliminate our flooding issues? What has been done to eliminate our housing blight? Are our streets safe? Why have we not kept up with West Point, starkville and Tupelo? We must have new leadership. Out with the old and in with the new. Elect Bill Strauss, your new mayor. Paid for by campaign to elect Bill Strauss mayor 2025.
Speaker 3And now a message from political candidate Jason Spears.
Speaker 5Hello, I am Jason Spears, your Republican candidate for City Council, ward 6. I am grateful for the citizens of Ward 6 support in the primary and respectfully request everyone's continued support in the upcoming general election. It is time to restore fiscal responsibility, economic growth and optimism back to our city. I, like you, believe we can get back on track and know that, as a community, we're going to make it happen. I approve this message and, on June 3rd, vote Jason Spears for Ward 6. Paid for by the campaign to elect Jason Spears, ward 6.
Speaker 3Today in the studio we are pleased to have the former mayor of Columbus, mr Robert Smith, who also serves as chairman of the Columbus Municipal School District, and he is also on the Columbus Light and Water Board. We welcome you here today. Thank you all so much for the invitation.
Speaker 6Look forward to this invite.
Speaker 1Well, mayor Smith, I want to start here. You know you're on the Municipal School Board. Y'all seem to be going through a superintendent search at a. Really I mean, is this an unfortunate time? It's definitely an odd time to be going through one, but I mean, talk about the timing of the superintendent search here. With what else y all have got going on.
Speaker 6Well, I will say, as far as from the superintendent standpoint, it was a surprise to the school board. Dr Ellis has done an outstanding job since he has been here, and he's only been here almost two years and you know how talk is in the community, right, some people say, well, y'all are around, another one of us. But you know, and from my personal standpoint, along with the school board, we want stability, you know, within the district, because if you go back with your previous superintendent, it's been a lot of superintendents in a little bit of time, so I guess, how do you?
Speaker 1what are you looking for to stabilize?
Speaker 6Well, I mean when you interview a person and you ask them are they planning on some longevity? You would hope you know they say yay, Even with Dr Ellis, in the interview process and with the stakeholders meeting and also in community meetings, he says that he was planning on retiring here. But then you know, when he told the big bum shell to us the other night in our board meeting prior to him giving us a letter of resignation, we all was shocked and surprised. And when you think about it, from the reason that he gave concerning the family issue and his mother's like 85 years, old and he's been going home and that's a long trip.
Speaker 6Yeah, back to back, and I don't know whether you all have been to Mount Bayou, mississippi, or not. Mount Bayou, I guess. Population as of today is probably about 1,300.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 6People that live in the town, and so a lot of times when he'd go home for the weekend and when he'd leave four days in the morning, he'd come back he'd go straight to work.
Speaker 1Now, Mr Smith, he has attributed that and, of course, take him at his word, and y'all have talked about him being a high-performing superintendent. However, prior to his leaving, there was the contract issue where y'all were only willing to extend him a year at the same salary, and that I mean typically. That could be read as a sign of at least shaky faith. So I guess, how do you respond to that at?
Speaker 6least shaky faith. So I guess, how do you respond to that? Well, I will say this and I'm putting myself out there as far as the one year, actually we gave him an additional year but also that six-month time span, we would come back to the table and negotiate. Okay, now, that wasn't said, but I'm saying that now. Okay, right, and you got to think about this. Also, he's going to Belzona, mississippi. K through 12 is on 1,100 students, right, okay, everything is on one campus and we was paying him the district, $160,000. He's making $162,000. And from Bell's on it to Mount Bayou, if you look it up, it's 58.4 miles.
Speaker 1Right, yeah. Well, talking about student count, I mean one of the things that y'all have been talking publicly about and specifically with Dr Ellis about during meetings, is stemming the tide of enrollment loss. I mean part of the elementary school consolidation is that y'all aren't filling them.
Speaker 6Well, for one thing, as we know, the district improved to a B. And the way things are going now is from what we've received, the numbers and all is that we should still remain a B, so that's a plus there, and then you got to think about it. Also is that people not having kids like they used to and another reason is that, if you look at, my hat's off to them is that if you look at the county, the county is rated higher than the city.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 6So most parents will say is that I want my kids to go to the best school district. And then, if you look at it from a black-white ratio, is that like? When I attended school it was probably 60-40, okay, even with the first year of immigration back in 1971. So most of you, at first the white kids for whatever the case may be, you know they decided to go to the private schools in which you know parents take the kids where they think is the best school. But from the board standpoint, from the administration standpoint, faculty and staff is that we're doing everything we can to try to stop the decrease and try to be able to back up. At one time the school district when I was working in the school district as a principal, a teacher and coach, the Columbus School District was like 5,100.
Speaker 1And then now you're just like about 3,000.
Speaker 6So it's been a drastic drop there.
Speaker 1Well, I mean that's not sustainable over time. I mean looking at the future of the school. It can't continue to drop like this for the school to survive right.
Speaker 2That's correct.
Speaker 6Okay, so what are three things, or two things that y'all are looking at implementing to stem it? Well, I mean, you have to do what you have to do on the situation. So, for one, we want to make sure that each student get the best education available. Okay, we want to provide a quality education for each student. For number one, and we want to try to provide all the necessities from the technology standpoint that the students need, and maybe with our district, is that maybe that is some liking that the students need? And maybe, with our district, is that maybe that is some liking that the other district can provide. So we've done all we can to try to recruit the best administrators, the best teachers. Are you with me? Yeah, so those are some of the things that we're trying to do to help stabilize and keep what we already have, rather than continue to lose students.
Speaker 1Looking at you know just the last few superintendents, different things that they've brought to the table, different idiosyncrasies that they've had, you know, personality-wise, leadership skill-wise, etc. Those people have come and gone in their turn for whatever reason over that time. What leadership skills, what kind of character? What kind of metrics does Robert Smith think a successful superintendent at CMSD will bring to the table, and what are they going to do?
Speaker 6A person that will have one good leadership skill.
Speaker 1Right. Well, what are good leadership skills? I mean, that's kind of platitudinal. What are good leadership skills?
Speaker 6Well, from an effective leader is a person that's willing to roll up their sleeves and get out there and show the people that he's leading. He or she is leading that. Hey, I'm willing to roll up my sleeves and get off in the mud, or whatever you want to take to make sure that we are successful as a school district.
Speaker 6Organizational skills a person that's very organized, All right. And people skills being able to relate to people. I mean, you could be one of the best superintendents there, maybe, but if you don't have good people skills being able to relate to people, then I don't think you're going to be successful. That's from me coming as a personal standpoint, and a person that's willing to get out there and go to the different organizations and sit down and talk to them, Get out in the community and help recruit.
Speaker 1What about relationship with the board? What are you looking for there as far as the superintendent's relationship with the board?
Speaker 6Well, I would hope that from the superintendent board standpoint, it be a team effort. Is that we're all in this together. Okay, right, it be a team effort. Is that we all in this together?
Speaker 1OK, right.
Speaker 6We're not going to get involved in day to day operations until you. You need to do this or you need to do that as a superintendent. We hope that during the interview process we we'll find a seasoned superintendent, someone that's willing to relocate and come to Columbus. And I mean as far as the salary now you mentioned about salary. If you make a comparison across the state of Mississippi as far as a district with 3,000 students and you're paying them a salary of $160,000, I mean that's a good salary.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 6With all the fringe benefits, that goes along.
Speaker 1Now, robert, you're also a seasoned educator. You are a seasoned leader on a lot of levels and you know your business. You also have a very strong personality. You know you know your business. So you've got a superintendent that's standing in front of you, y'all have got a board policy that y'all want to get through and y'all have explained yourselves. This is what we want to do and this is why your new superintendent's sitting up there going. I hear what you're saying, but I wish y'all would do something different. Is that something that you think would be a positive thing in a superintendent to be able and willing to do?
Speaker 6Well, listen, you know you have your lackadaisical superintendent, you have your lazy fair superintendent. But listen, let me say this and I'm not talking about contrarian.
Speaker 6Let me say this If the positive says this, I believe in going with the policy okay, and with any superintendent. Now, even with Dr Ellis, we didn't always agree, but then we could agree to disagree, in other words. So in other words, is that if we disagreed about something, he recommended something and we didn't support it, or Robert Smith didn't support it, is that I didn't need to upset If the board voted by majority vote against what Robert Smith voted against. Is that, hey, majority rule, and move on.
Speaker 3Do you think that there are specific policy initiatives or just like general directions that Dr Ellis is going to leave behind, that you're hoping that would be continued with the next administration?
Speaker 6Oh, yeah, I would hope that, regardless who the superintendent may end up being, is that I don't think it will be smart for the superintendent to come in and make wholesale changes. I don't think it'll be smart from that standpoint. Now, that's just my opinion. Okay, we have some good things that are going on within the district, and Dr Ellis has agreed that until June, the 30th, which his new job will take effect on July 1, he has agreed to where he would work with us and do everything he can, from replacement of staff, whatever the case may be, and so we would hope that, whoever the superintendent may be that come in is that they will follow our strategic plan and just come in and keep the ball rolling and which you know. Any new leader come in with some new ideas, okay. So I hope the new ideas would not be the way you just trash the things that have been successful.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Well, talking about the strategic plan, what are you hearing? I mean, I know that the bond overwhelmingly passed, but what are y'all hearing about, as far as public feedback to doing away with the magnet schools and neighborhood schools consolidating into a grade span on the elementary level and especially the pending repurposing of Franklin?
Speaker 6Well, you know, for me personally and I'm out there with the public you know I haven't received a lot of negative criticism from the Grace Band. And you know, with the decrease in enrollment and then with this year closing Franklin, and then the next year, 26, 27 year, that's when the Grace Band will really take effect is that we'll closed Fairview.
Speaker 6So I mean, from the community meetings that we've had and that I've attended, it's not at all negative. The main thing is that I've heard from the public is what are you going to do with Franklin?
Speaker 1Yeah, what are you going to do with Franklin?
Speaker 6I mean, that's a million-dollar question right now. I know we're going to winterize it and all and we're not going to just let it sit there, because it has a lot of historical significance.
Speaker 1there Now is that going to be? Are you all looking at a school-centric purpose? Are you all looking at a historical-centric purpose? Are you all looking at, maybe leasing for commercial purposes, or a combination of any or all of that?
Speaker 6We've we've thought some things around but, to be frank with you, nothing is concrete right now. At least I can tell you this from the board standpoint we're not going to just give it away like the lead deal. Now I can say that the board is unanimously in support of not just giving it away.
Speaker 1How important is it to you that, as I mean a Native community member and longtime mayor here and school board member that Franklin is in? Whatever purpose Franklin is used, one, it's not vacant and two, it remains an homage to its history.
Speaker 6I would hope that when the final decision is made that we as a board keep some historical significance there related to Franklin. Related to Franklin.
Speaker 3Yeah, what about Fairview, that school over there? Is that historical just because it's old? Or is that just going to be maybe just sold to public outcry? What do you think will be the fate of that building?
Speaker 6Personally, it doesn't have nearly the significance from a historical standpoint that Franklin had.
Speaker 3So maybe condos or something.
Speaker 6David, mean you're thinking?
Speaker 1robert's making his business plan right now. He's like you know, I like that.
Speaker 6So, uh, right now we don't know, but as a board we don't want to just jump into something, uh, without input from the community on franklin.
Speaker 1Have have you gotten anybody that has come to y'all at this point and said this is something we can do with Franklin?
Speaker 6Oh yeah, you know that Come on. The first time it was mentioned that it was going to close. You know there are people out there from a business standpoint have some ideas.
Speaker 1Any good ideas.
Speaker 6I can't discuss that. But to answer your question, yeah, there are some business people that have uh mentioned to dr ellis and also to board and have mentioned to me personally.
Hunt Status and Ribbon Cutting
Speaker 3But uh, right now we I just we can't discuss that I'm really curious about the status of I've not been by there in a minute and like there's a museum on the back of it, the RE Hunt Museum. What is happening there? Is there like a ribbon cutting going to happen in the near future? Or like, where are we on that one Good?
Speaker 6question. Dave, I'm glad you asked that, Okay. Okay, the hole up here today is Thursday. Tuesday we'll go through and do the five points list. But to the citizens of Columbus and the people that attended Hunt it was amazing at the job they were doing there. And as far as the grand opening, we met with Keith Blair on Monday. We're going to do a monument in front of the building, just like the monument they were doing at Franklin and the one they were doing at Union Academy. And so hopefully, as far as the grand opening, we'll have the grand opening probably the first or second week in July, because he assured us that he would have the monument built and have it there for the grand opening. So that's the holdup on the grand opening because if you think about it, if it was with the Columbus School, District school would open like about the third week in July this year. So before we have the grand opening we want to unveil the monument, also with the history.
Speaker 1Well, on the museum side of it, is all that stuff still packed up in storage buildings, or are they bringing the stuff back to the they're bringing the majority that didn't get damaged and from a museum standpoint, back there.
Speaker 6They did an awesome job with the entire building Because my last year year, when they fully integrated the City of Columbus, we got out of school going into my senior year that summer we was expecting summer 1970, to go back to Hunt and that's when the state of Mississippi fully integrated. So from that time to now, as far as the renovation standpoint because I don't know, in 2019, when the tornado hit, I mean it pretty much destroyed a lot of people saying just demolish it. So with the $19 million that was put in there, I mean it didn't even have an elevator in there in the building there and the museum.
Speaker 6they did a remarkable job across the entire school district.
Speaker 3I was actually a student teacher there briefly in about 2004. And I just remember that building was really sad, like just the facilities and the bathrooms and you could see actual wires that looked kind of dangerous in certain places. I remember writing about this stuff and so I'm glad to see that facility being turned around.
Speaker 6Well, dave, I'm giving you all right now a personal invitation. When we get to date for the grand opening, I want you to come and see it and then, after you look at it, then you'll say that Rob Smith, you didn't lie. Yeah, okay, they have done a remarkable job. It's central heat and air all the way through.
Candidate Forum and Important Message
Speaker 3Before we get back to the interview, I want to let you know about a forum that will be with all three of the mayoral candidates, mr Stephen Jones, mr Darren Leach and Mr Bill Strauss. That is May 27th at the Lyceum at Lee, from 6 to 7 30. All three have agreed to be there and you will want to reserve a ticket. No cost for that ticket, but reserve that ticket at cdispatchcom slash forum. This forum is sponsored by the Dispatch and by the Lyceum at Lee.
Speaker 3Meanwhile, quick word from our sponsors. Do you have knee pain, muscle weakness, swelling or cold feet? Call King Associates Cardiology for an appointment today at 662-368-1169. King Associates Cardiology, we care and it shows. Do you need a space for your next event? The 7th Street Center has been just what you're looking for. We can accommodate groups of 50 to 800. Call today 662-630-2442 to reserve your space. Do you need furniture? Heck, even if you don't need furniture, you can't afford to miss Ashley Furniture's spring clearance sale Up to 35% off of floor samples. Some exclusions apply. 1721 Highway 45 North in Columbus. Do you want to start your own podcast? Catfish Alley Studio has the space, gear and support to bring your voice to life, whether you're launching a show or learning to play music. We help creators sound their best. Book your session today at catfishalleycom.
Speaker 1So switching gears to the CLW side. There's a question I really want to ask you. This Kerr-McGee issue has gotten a lot of people really spooked as far as what's safe and what's not around that area. For fact that there's a business in the area around, I guess, sort of around the Curramagee site that they're not giving tap water, they're not using their tap water or giving it to customers because of what they believe to be Curramagee contamination. You're on the light and water board. Water's clean in Columbus, right, correct. In Columbus, right, correct. Okay. So where is the disconnect as far as with your experience with the community, with leading the city through the part of the Kermagee cleanup? What's the disconnect there that starts these rumors about like oh, don't drink the tap water, or oh we can't build anything on X or Y.
Speaker 6Well, a lot of it was perception Now, as far as from the Kerr-McGee, as far as the section that was cleaned to a certain extent on the 27th Street side, there from 14th Avenue and 27th Street, which they used to call the Pine Yard Okay, Now they cleaned that to a certain extent, Mm-hmm Okay. But from people within the community, a lot of it's true, I think you know I'm no doctor, but the perception is that a lot of those people that have passed on in their relatives is because of contamination that got in their bodies.
Speaker 6You know like some of them had guns and stuff you know in their backyards and all. So I mean some of it, I think, is perception, my dealing with it from the time when I was the mayor and then since I've been on the lighting water board and from talking to people out of Atlanta. Is that some soil there? What they did to clean up it? There there is still some contamination.
Speaker 1You know, at one time Is it getting in the water?
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3Okay, do you think that cleanup happened efficiently, or do you think that maybe just that whole Superfund situation could have been handled in a way that they actually would have used the money and gotten all the dirt out, or more of the dirt, and actually had the whole thing approved to be built on, as opposed to whatever percentage it is now?
Speaker 6Well, you know, columbus received, I believe, about $67 million somewhere in that ballpark range and from the federal government and the people that was handling it, the organization that was handling it. They were just funneling out a little at a time. They were just falling out a little at a time but as far as from the way it was cleaned up, as far as with the money that was issued, I think they went as far as that. They was going at that time because the people that was handling the money the $6 million to $8 million as long as they held it in an account there was more interest that was being drawn on it and that was making them look good. Also Because since that time you think how long it's been since they did the Mall Street side where they did the ditch and all they're not on the 14th Avenue side If you turn when you cross the tracks on Mall Street they did a concrete line ditch over there, headed north.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 6So nothing been done over there since that time and over on the side where the graveyard is there, where the main plant there was, we used to call it growing up moss tie.
Speaker 3There's a swamp over there right now. Why is all that water still there? You seen it.
Speaker 6Where.
Speaker 3It's like alligators and stuff Right there just to the east of the school. Like it's bad. Are you saying there's?
Speaker 1alligators by the school? Or are you being hyperbolic?
Speaker 6You're evidently referring David to where Settlers and Plumbing used to be.
Speaker 3Maybe, so, yeah, maybe, so it's actually.
Speaker 6It's been a good cooperation yeah.
Speaker 3But it's a football kick away from the Hunt Museum and the student building. Well, it's across the street there.
Speaker 6Yeah, from 22nd Street, this is what we call the back street, the street that runs down there. If you're looking at the back, on the left when you're going down 22nd, if you're looking at to your left, it's the.
Speaker 4Hunt.
Speaker 6Yes. For the hunt and the museum, but to your right, that's what you're referring to as the swamp.
Speaker 3And I'm wondering if that's drainage related or if that's a part of the site that didn't get cleaned or that's not even on the site.
Speaker 6That's not on the site. That was the main office there and that was the building, not the main office for Curt McGee. Now, that was the main office for the Benneke Corporation where they did the toilet seats at. You should be old enough to remember. Uh, benica dave I was.
Speaker 3I was safely tucked away in the county, and so this has been a learning curve for me, for sure.
Speaker 1All I know is I drove by there and I was like holy cow, look at all this stuff, all right, your councilwoman, ella stewart, okay, and then you've got other members of the council Pierre Beard, you know even Stephen Jones, to a certain extent very skeptical of building anything on any part of the Kerr-McGee site. Do you share that opinion with them?
Speaker 6Yeah until it's thoroughly cleaned. Yeah until it's thoroughly clean. Yeah, because they got to think about their constituents, because if they go jump and do something against what their constituents would like to see done, then Well, okay, but there's constituent will, and then there's science.
Speaker 1Something that is safe and something that is wanted can be two different things. So is it safe In your mind if EPA is saying it's safe, is it safe?
Speaker 6Well, I mean, if EPA saying it's safe, is it safe? Well, I mean, if EPA says safe, yeah, but at the same time, you got to think about what your constituents are going to say. If you want to stay in office, are you going to be concerned about EPA? That do not vote for Ethel. Pierre Stephen Jones. I mean let Stephen Jones. I mean let's be for real.
Speaker 3What about Robert Johnson IV's idea?
Speaker 6Put solar panels out there and use part of that energy production to lower the cost of energy bills for Ward 4.
Speaker 3It's a solar panel.
Speaker 6No.
Speaker 3Republicans already believe that they're poisonous. Here we go. Poisonous here we go you're listening to between the headlines okay, so.
Roderick Smith's Victory in Ward 2
Speaker 1So, uh, going going into the political realm a little bit now. I saw you there, uh, uh, when uh roger smith won the War II race Tuesday. Now, we've talked about this before, but y'all are related, at least distantly, right yeah?
Speaker 6He's my great nephew.
Speaker 1Okay, well, first of all, I mean, how proud are you of him?
Speaker 6I'm very proud of him.
Speaker 6Okay, I mean, he ran a good, clean race. He got out there and went do-de-do with the people and I think what impressed the people a lot when we had the flood on Summer Haven back here about three or four weeks ago I guess some of the people called him. We had been to the house and he left church with his suit on, with a little bit of boots on him, and went out there in the water waiting, wow. But again back to how proud I am. I mean, I'm very proud of him.
Speaker 1Well now, you weren't super visible in his campaign until, I mean Tuesday. You were there, but I mean, did he come to you at any point and say, okay? So if I'm going to do this, tips and tricks, advice Did he come to you.
Speaker 6When he first mentioned to me, zach, that he was going to run for city councilman, I said are you sure this is what you want to do? And he says, yeah. I said well, if you want to do this, it's going to take a lot of hard work. I said and commitment on your part. And I said whatever you say to the people, I said don't get out there and make these promises that you know, if you elect me, I'll do this. I'll do that. I said because you only one vote.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 6And I said you need four votes, you need three plus the mayor. Break the tie. And I said my advice to you, or any other person that's running for office they ask me for advice, is that don't make these wholesale promises. If people ask you about if I vote for you, will you do this or that, I'll say that, hey, I'll take what you ask of me under consideration. So if it doesn't happen, then they can't come back and say well, Robert, you lied to me about this.
Speaker 6I said nope. I said I would take it under consideration.
Speaker 1I have noticed something about Roderick winning that race. It has been pretty universally celebrated across the political spectrum. We're talking about people in Ward 2. We're talking about people who are in his party and we're also talking about people who would historically not celebrate a Democratic victory, but it seems to be universally celebrated. How much of that is Roderick and his reputation before the campaign and the campaign combined and how much of that is people were just tired of Mickens.
Speaker 6Well, there's a twofold Okay. Some of it have to do with Roger and people that knew Roger proud to run for office. His people skills are great. Are you with me? Yeah, he doesn't meet strangers, whether it's black or white, and from the other spectrum as far as making is that, if you talk to some of the people that was in the ward, is that they were just tired of Joseph Meakin.
Speaker 6Well, a lot of times you get incumbent fatigue, no matter the performance, and there was some instances where, during the last year or so where I don't think personally, county of Michigan helped themselves.
Speaker 1Such as we're not going to go there. So like I mean Kenny, I mean for an example.
Speaker 6I'll use one example, just like the incident that happened with.
Speaker 4Kenny Wheaton.
Speaker 6You know Kenny is a nice guy down there who will help anybody and you know the incident that happened there that night. That was totally uncalled for. Yeah.
Speaker 1Another thing that's gotten in the news. You know your involvement in the mayor's race, from endorsing Stephen Jones to the letter exchanges in the paper between you and Supervisor Brooks. Supervisor Brooks had some things to say in a letter after he was defeated in the primary that insinuated or out and out said that the election might have been corrupt and that you might have had something to do with it. And, of course, you responded the way that you responded to that, which was, in short, sour grapes, didn't you and Leroy used to be friends. What happened there?
Speaker 6We were in school first through the 12th grade. Matter of fact, we went to Chattanooga together at Motley Elementary School, you know. But you know time bring about changes and I thought that you know we was associates. You know so-called friends, but you know how elections are. But then again, before I go any further, I just want to personally thank you and Peter for, you know, printing my letter, I really do. But back to the thing. As far as with Leroy, you know, print my level, I really do. But back to the thing. As far as with Leroy, you know, he said what he had to say, I didn't agree with it and I did my rebuttal. And so, hey, as a poor person from an individual standpoint, and especially a man that don't defend yourself.
Speaker 6You know you can let a person throw rocks at you for so long and it is time for you to defend yourself. My grandmama always told us. Growing up is that you can take the sorry dog in the yard and you can kick him around for so long and eventually, one day you're going to come and kick that dog and the dog will cry and let you bite you Okay. So I said that to say that he said what he had to say. I said what I had to say.
Speaker 6Now wait let me finish just one second. I know you got to. Let me say this here From the standpoint of me supporting Councilman Jones is that I'm not going to go any further as far as our debacle between Leroy and myself, because I don't want to piss nobody off that supported Mr Brooks, I thought your chosen profession was politics.
Speaker 4And I don't want to piss nobody off that supported Mr Jones, because you've got to think nobody off. Sure, I understand that Mr.
Speaker 6Jones, because you got to think about this. Leroy Brooks, whether you like it or not, received 1,500 and something votes Right. Kevin Jones received 1,800 votes right. Right, so hopefully with so many people that supported Leroy.
Speaker 1Brooks, right, y'all are courting those 1,500 people. I understand that so.
Speaker 6I don't want to take nobody off.
Speaker 1I understand. But okay, why your decision to endorse Stephen Jones? Then you know, I know Y'all haven't always gotten along, no, so what changed Well?
Speaker 6first of all, we haven't always gotten along, zach. Well, you know, I once was married, okay, and then, whether you married or in a relationship, you know you don't always get along, but you can agree to disagree. When I was on the council, Councilor Jones and I didn't always agree.
Speaker 1Sometimes those disagreements were pretty rough, though, that's true. So how'd y'all bury the hatchet?
How Smith Worked Successfully With the Council
Speaker 6were pretty rough, that's true. So how'd y'all bury the hatchet? Well, I mean, it's not that we just buried the hatchet when he ran for mayor, it's that the hatchet that's been buried wasn't no hatchet. It's that we disagree with each other and then, hey, we move on. So, as far as from Stephen, why I decided to support Stephen Jones or Councilman Jones is because I thought that from a city government standpoint even though Mr Brooks had been there 41 years as the supervisor but from the city standpoint, municipal government is that it looks a little different from county government and Steve had been in city government for like the last nine years and he's more approachable. And Steve has some good leadership qualities and I just think that he would be the best person for the job. That's Rob Smith's opinion.
Speaker 1It's a weak mayor strong council system, as you well know, and you had to navigate that In your administration. There was still a weak mayor system but there were consensuses reached. There were times that they voted against you. There were times that they voted for you. In the past four years there doesn't seem to be very many times where the sitting mayor's gotten anything much across and the candidate you've endorsed has been on the voting block. That has blocked a lot of those initiatives. I guess, speaking from your experience, I'm bringing this through three different ways your experience on navigating that weak mayor system and how you were successful in getting some initiatives across, why Keith hasn't and why Stephen will if he is elected.
Speaker 6That's simple. That's that. Let me tell you this From a weak mayor, strong council, former government, right. So after the mayor, whatever I recommend, I better make sure, as the mayor, that I've got me three votes before I bring this to the table. Okay, that's just good old common sense. There, are you with me?
Speaker 1But also, and making sure you do that without violating the public meetings. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 6Yeah, I got it. Yeah, there you go, but at the same time it's being able to communicate with your counselor. I can't go to the table and ask for this or ask for that when there's been no communication later, and then I expect the council to just jump on board and support what I want.
Smith as a Polarizing Figure
Speaker 6So it's all about communication Now, as far as you know, breaking ties probably in 15 years I bet you I'd probably break no more than four or five ties, good, bad and different Let me ask you about that, from what you say and, by the way, it's good to have an in-depth conversation with you.
Speaker 3I've just been around you a few times and it's mostly been small talk. But today I'm hearing you talk about these relationships and these ties and I can't help but wonder. In columbus and in lowndes county there are a lot of people that love robert smith, and then there are a lot of people who hate robert smith, and I just don't see a lot of people in the middle here and I'm wondering why that is. And it's bear with me. Here's a twofold question. Number one why is it that people either think you're the one who pours his heart into children it's just a great man and Columbus is a better place because of him or Robert Smith is a crook? Ok, you got these two camps. And then second question is do you think that, like, maybe some of it's racially based? I mean, where does this come from?
Speaker 6Well, as far as from the crook standpoint or the corrupt standpoint, is that if Robert Smith was such a crook, corrupt? I want to ask you a question have you ever read in the paper where Robert Smith was indicted?
Speaker 3I have not Okay All right, so all right.
Speaker 6Now as far as some like, some dislike, there's nothing that I can do about that, but try to treat everybody fair and treat people the way I want to be treated. Okay, and I always said when I was a principal or teacher or coach in order to get respect, you got to give respect. When I was a principal, you think all the teachers are like Rob Smith? No, but you know what I used to tell them, david, I used to tell the teachers, the assistant principals, the students.
Speaker 6I'm not here to win a popularity contest. I'm here to do a job and I want to be fair and consistent. Whatever I did for David, I could do it for Zach. I could do it for people.
Speaker 1Going back to the current administration and I want to go. You know, you see those old sports shows where they have the old coaches up there analyzing the game, looking at the Gaskin administration. Are there anything? What are the things that you see, if anything, from your standpoint? Positive outcomes from that administration, good things that you've seen from that, just looking at it as a former mayor, as a fellow leader. What's he doing right?
Speaker 6Well you know, I'm not here to criticize.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, that's not a critical question. Okay, I know it's not.
Speaker 6But okay, there I mean I'll be the first to say is that there were some things that happened in my administration that I hate happened from the embezzlement standpoint. And you know, some people say when Robert Smith left, the city was broke, which that's a farce. That's not true. That was over like $5 million there. But at the same time, what some of the citizens don't realize is that why we had to borrow money is because you think about it now, since COVID, where you had federal money, came in, you got money from the state and then from the gas tax money. That's how they do a lot of paving.
Speaker 6Well, yeah, the internet sales tax, the internet sales tax right, so that wasn't in existence when.
Speaker 2Robert Smith was there.
Speaker 6So as far as the good the bad with Keith, I'm not going to get into that. The only thing that I say that I think he could have been more successful as a mayor if he just had tried to communicate with the council.
Speaker 3Why do you think that council was largely opposed to the forensic audits that he kept pushing for?
Speaker 6I have no idea. And if you talk to people within the city or the county, there were some people that said that it was a waste of money.
Speaker 3Too expensive.
Speaker 6Yeah. So you had your pros and cons both ways. And if there had been, whether it was a forensic audit or not, you have your auditing firm there. So if there was some money that was missing anywhere, don't you think that the auditor would have picked it up and found it somewhere eventually? One would hope. Yeah, that's right, one would hope.
Speaker 1I guess they helped find the embezzlement they did.
Speaker 6Well, I was a part of it too, because I just had this idea Someone write. And I asked Mrs Holly that I met with her one Saturday and I asked her I said something's just not right. I just had this feeling something's not right here with these novels and I asked her would she go back so many years? And she said you really want me to do that? I said yep, and I got the approval of the council and she did, and the way he was doing it is that the average auditor wouldn't have caught up with it.
Speaker 1Well, last question I have for you two-part. Well, last question I have for you two-part. When all of this is done, when you're done with everything? Maybe when you're done on this earth?
Speaker 6what do you want the legacy of Robert Smith to be in Columbus and what do you think it will be? Zach? That's a $2 million question. As far as from a legacy standpoint, you know I'm the type person from a personal standpoint I'm not hung up on legacies okay, I would want the person to say is robbed by a robber. Smear is that. You know he was hard-nosed. If there's something that he had to say to you about you, you didn't have to ask Saturday, joe, jay or John. You could just come straight to him and he would tell you personally how he feel about this, how he feel about that, and that would say that, hey, regardless of what you have to say about Robert Smith is that he was fair and consistent in whatever he did.
Speaker 3Well, mr Robert Smith, I want to offer you my sincere thanks for coming in the studio today. It has been a pleasure and that will do it. We thank our listeners for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, share and rate, and also send us your comments. We would love to hear from you about this interview today or about whatever else is on your mind that we may want to talk about. Tips at cdispatchcom. Again, that is, tips at cdispatchcom. You can also follow me on Facebook or x at dchism00. Signing off until next week from Catfish Alley Studios in historic downtown Columbus. Big shout out to Josh Gillis, who does a great job of helping us set this up. Your host has been Zach Player and I am David Chisholm. Until next time, y'all keep it friendly and we will do our best to keep it real, to keep it real.
