Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
In Studio: Darren Leach PLUS Changes to Market Street Festival
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Pastor Darren Leach, independent mayoral candidate endorsed by incumbent Mayor Keith Gaskin, shares his vision for implementing data-driven management and transparent metrics for Columbus city departments. Through his unique combination of engineering expertise and community service experience, Leach aims to rebuild neighborhoods while fostering unity among city leadership.
• Creating clear performance indicators for all city departments to ensure accountability and transparency
• Approaching infrastructure challenges with systematic analysis rather than quick fixes
• Building consensus through open communication with council members before presenting ideas
• Redeveloping the Kerr-McGee site through public-private partnerships while preventing gentrification
• Bringing nonprofit experience of "making bricks without straw" to city government
• Differentiating from Mayor Gaskin through more active communication while maintaining similar goals
This episode also features Barbara Bigelow and Amber Brislin discussing the upcoming Market Street Festival, highlighting changes to this year's layout while maintaining all the traditional festival elements.
Darren Leach Mayoral Interview
Speaker 1From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 2This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity and our reporting will always reflect that. And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3This week, on Between the Headlines, we have Darren Leach in the studio. We'll talk politics there. We are pleased to have Barbara Bigelow and Amber Brislin to talk about the Market Street Festival coming up this weekend, rain or shine. But first here's a word from our sponsor. Retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over 40 years, financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. Do you need help achieving the right? Look in your house At Lighting, unlimited and Uncommon Living. You'll find quality, unique pieces that will elevate your home instantly. Great furniture and lighting not only reflect a style, they also define a home. With Lighting, unlimited and Uncom uncommon living, you can expect more. Visit them at 1116 Gardner Boulevard or online at lighting-columbuscom. And now a message from political candidate Bill Strauss.
Speaker 4This is Bill Strauss, your 2025 candidate for mayor of Columbus. As election time draws near, ask yourself are you satisfied with our city leadership? What has been done to eliminate our flooding issues? What has been done to eliminate our housing blight? Are our streets safe? Why have we not kept up with West Point, starkville and Tupelo? We must have new leadership. Out with the old and in with the new. Elect Bill Strauss, your new mayor. Paid for by campaign to elect Bill Strauss mayor 2025.
Speaker 3And now a message from political candidate Jason Spears.
Speaker 5Hello, I am Jason Spears, your Republican candidate for City Council, ward 6. I am grateful for the citizens of Ward 6 support in the primary and respectfully request everyone's continued support in the upcoming general election. It is time to restore fiscal responsibility, economic growth and optimism back to our city. I, like you, believe we can get back on track and know that, as a community, we're going to make it happen. I approve this message and, on June 3rd, vote Jason Spears for Ward 6. Paid for by the campaign to elect Jason Spears, ward 6.
Speaker 3the campaign to elect Jason Spears, ward 6. This week, on Between the Headlines, we are pleased to have in the studio Pastor of Genesis Church and Independent Mayor candidate who holds the endorsement of incumbent Mayor Keith Gaskin. None other than Pastor Darren Leach. Welcome here today. Thank you, I'm glad to be here. Okay, pastor Leach, here I have affectionately referred to you as the Apostle on this broadcast.
Speaker 4Oh, is that what we're doing?
Speaker 3Yeah, that's where it came from I saw that on the website.
Speaker 2I did.
Speaker 3But you are a preacher man, right? Yes, sir, that is a good thing, because I have heard there are plenty of sinners to make their way through City Hall as of late.
Speaker 6This is where we're going to start with right, as it currently seems.
Speaker 1Now I know where we are.
Speaker 3Well.
Speaker 6I'm quite the center myself. So here we go. I understand, and I presume you mean you go through City Hall regularly.
Speaker 3Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 1Not as regularly as I do, that's for sure. I got you, that's for sure.
Speaker 3Redeem this conversation, Zach.
Speaker 1You talked to me when you announced for mayor. Yes, we talked about name recognition being the biggest challenge.
Speaker 4that you're going to face coming into this.
Speaker 1How have you closed that gap, how do you feel you've closed that gap and what ways have you gone about?
Speaker 6it. I don't know if I've closed the gap, because it was a pretty big one. You know. What we've done, though, is we've done a lot of things to just connect with people, so we've done some canvassing, we've done a ton of social media stuff We've done. We were starting to do some stuff with mass media, and our focus is to continue to let people know what will happen. If I'm elected mayor, I try to stay out of the negative stuff, I try to stay out of the past, and I try to kind of keep people looking towards. This is what we could have if you elect me.
Speaker 1All right. Well, so let me just jump right in there what we'll have if you're elected mayor. Now you've talked about your engineering background. You have an engineering degree.
Speaker 2Yes sir.
Speaker 1Okay, your campaign. Whether this was something that I don't know, whether it's something that you're pushing or something that was thrust upon you, but your campaign has couched you as a man with an engineer's mind and a servant's heart.
Speaker 6Yeah.
Speaker 1All right. So let's get down to the brass tacks of that in the practical matter. Sure, it's the first meeting of your elected. It's the first meeting of your elected. It's the first meeting of your term. Sure, in July, three policies that you would want to put forward right away that would either help engineer the city better or help the city serve its citizens better.
Speaker 6Specifically, You're right. So the first thing I would do is I would meet with each department head. We would get very, very clear on two things. One is what is the mission of this department? What are the key performance indicators? The policy I will put forward would be make sure that we make those transparent. Let's post those key KPIs in places where people could see them. Let's visually control them so people could understand clearly if things are in and out not just the citizens but those department leaders, so they'll know what kind of things they need to work on.
Speaker 6So when we talk about getting government to run right, you've got to know, you've got to clearly define what run right means right, Because what we don't want to be is subjective. I don't want to go into work sessions and then ask a department head how are things going? Things are going good, Right, let's clearly define what good is. So if, for some reason, we're talking to say public works, we would look at those measures like potholes that have been identified, potholes that have been eliminated Right, the length of time the pothole, from the time the pothole was identified to the length of time that they were identified. Whatever those key performance measures are Now, I won't do those in a vacuum. I will sit down with the department heads to help figure out what those things look like.
Speaker 3Maybe good would be defined as the water recedes so many inches per hour, as opposed to just sitting there and breeding mosquitoes.
Speaker 6I think that may be a little bit too much engineering-ish for everybody when you start talking, but exactly what we don't want. We know water is going to come through the city. It doesn't supposed to stay, it's supposed to leave almost as fast as it comes into the city, and what we would do is figure out ways to measure those and then talk about how we get them out of there.
Speaker 3Who's accountable?
Speaker 6I'm the whoever, so ultimately, everything falls on the mayor ultimately, and what that means is I got to put the systems in place so that the people that are responsible are doing what they need to do Right. So I will be ultimately accountable, but the work there will be other people that are responsible. I got to make sure that the people that are responsible that they have the skills, the tools and the resources to make sure that, when people are holding me accountable, that things are going the way they're supposed to.
Speaker 3Well, as it currently stands, though somebody's at fault for this right. Either it's just because the city's so old and the infrastructure is so old and it just is what it is, or somebody needs to be fired, or what. Who's at fault?
Speaker 6Well, one of the things that I learned when I was in corporate America was it's easy to do that. It's easy to say this is the person that's at fault and then kind of try to switch people out. What's a better way to do that is to get systems in place, because what happens is, if you get systems in place, what you do is take what's in your head and you put it on paper. Once you put it on paper, then not only can I criticize it, but the person who's responsible for fixing it can criticize it. As long as the thought process for how to do this stuff is in your head, you don't want to criticize it. We do it the way we do it and that's the way we've always done it. But once you put it on paper, it's open to criticism. So what we would do with the department managers and this is what I did in corporate America I went into organizations. I helped organizations document their systems. I help them get really, really clear on what their success measures look like, and we were able to critique those systems and make them more efficient and make them more effective.
Speaker 6Now, once I go into an organization and I see that something is off, one of two things will cause it. One is the person does not have the skill to do it. If they don't have the skill to do it, we will train them. The other one is they don't want to do it. One is the person does not have the skill to do it. If they don't have the skill to do it, we will train them. The other one is they don't want to do it. If they don't want to do it, we will fire them. It's just that simple.
Engineering Data-Driven Government
Speaker 1Okay, Well, you brought up public works and that is a particular department that has been much maligned on two fronts, especially over the last four years Performance, fair or unfair that performance has been maligned at times publicly and equipment and equipment needs. What do you see there that needs to be done and what conversations have you had with Casey Bush about it?
Speaker 6Well, what needs to be done is you have to do a detailed analysis. That's one of the things that engineering taught me. You can't sideline, quarterback these things. You got to go to what we used to call GIMBA or the shop floor. You got to go to where this stuff is happening and figure it out right. So one of the things could be let's replace all of the equipment because it's old. But if you were in the military, they wouldn't say that. They would say let's do preventive maintenance, and if you do preventive maintenance, then the equipment would run right. So I would ask stuff like that what are your systems of checks to make sure that when you go out, you're reasonably confident that the equipment that you drive out the shop with, that it's going to work?
Speaker 3So is Ethel Stewart right when she talks about put the money toward the equipment. Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 6No, I'm saying we have to do an analysis. Is that what I'm hearing? No, I'm saying we have to do an analysis. We don't know if it's the people, we don't know if it's the equipment, we don't know if it's the skill set. But as we do the analysis, we're not guessing anymore.
Speaker 3Total cost of ownership type stuff.
Speaker 6That's part of it. That's part of it for the equipment. But then we also have to make sure that the people that are operating the equipment, that they have the skill set that they need and that the people that are maintaining the equipment and I believe in self-managed maintenance to a degree, in other words, you can check your oil. You may not be able to replace your motor, but you can check your oil.
Speaker 3So how are you going to take these reports or these measurements and present them to your council and to persuade them for lack of a better way of putting it to make an appropriate decision that's based on that?
Speaker 6data Right. Why would I do that?
Speaker 3Because you're the mayor right.
Speaker 6No, the department manager uses that data the department manager uses that.
Speaker 1Well, you got to know it though, right yeah.
Speaker 6Well, that's exactly right. That's why we have to get clear on what are the key performance. Okay, so let me go back to the second part of you.
Speaker 1While we go. You're running for mayor. You're talking about running the city. We were talking about public works. What have your conversations with Casey Bush been up until this point?
Speaker 6We've had conversations about specific things that have happened. I don't feel it's my place yet to go in and start telling him how to run his operation, or to tell him or to question him.
Speaker 1Sure, but I mean, I guess what concerns has.
Speaker 6Casey brought to you. I have a reason for that. The reason I don't feel that is because Casey's busy right.
Speaker 6And depending on who goes into office right, he may have very different ways. He has to do it. If, given the opportunity, I'll take the skillset that I have Before that it's a little presumptuous and a little bit premature, I think, and that's the way I'm managing it. So I'm paying attention to things like budget, I'm paying attention to some other stuff, just so I could understand how the city is run should I get elected. But until I get elected I don't have a right to go in and ask Casey and tell Casey how to do it, but you'll use this data to push him from being busy into being productive and efficient, right?
Speaker 3I'm not saying it that way?
Speaker 6No, I'm saying he's busy because there's a lot of stuff going on in the city, but what I'm saying is what we want to do is make sure that every department is efficient and effective and there's a measure for those. We got to figure out what those are. Those are not obvious right now. We will make those obvious, that's what transparency means to me.
Speaker 1Well, I want to move into the engineering part of this. I mean what conversations have you had with Kevin Stafford?
Speaker 6I have all kinds of conversations with Kevin Stafford.
Speaker 1What insight have you gotten from that as far as what the city needs to do and what your priorities would need to be infrastructure-wise? First day on the job.
Speaker 6Well, that's a really interesting question. I hear it all the time Like you're going to walk in on the job and instantly everything's going to change.
Speaker 1No, no, no, no, no I'm saying you've been running this whole time.
Speaker 6You've been running since January.
Speaker 1Right, okay, you have an engineering background, right, you know who the city engineer is. You say you've had conversations with him, so what insight have you gotten from those?
Speaker 3conversations Surely there's something that needs to be fixed on day one.
Speaker 6Well, not on day one, it's not going to be fixed on day one, but the things that we want to look at are infrastructure. Those are the things that we talk about. But then we also talk about other stuff, because I didn't just start looking at how we do stuff in the city. So when I went to do the change grant that I'm sure you're going to ask me about at some point in this conversation when I went to do the change grant, we did a really detailed analysis of portions of the city so we could pick which ones we wanted to work on. When we noticed that, when we did that, we noticed that there were things like income levels that were low, we noticed that not only is the infrastructure old, but, also the improvements on land.
Speaker 6The buildings are old, so we need to build more buildings. We need to make sure that we have affordable housing. Those are the kinds of things that we need. Now, when Kevin talks about infrastructure, he talks to me about the fact that we have a lot that needs to be done in a lot of areas, and he also talks about how there are some things that are already being done, specifically like we need some detention ponds right so that we can hold up the water. He talks about how we need to really really make sure that our ditch maintenance system is okay, because we have some spots that are just clogged, and so the result is, when we're looking downstream, we see water not flowing, but upstream it's flooded. Well, there's a point here where we got a clog. Those are the kind of discussions that we have, but how to fix those? We will have to get in there and start talking to public works and understand exactly what kind of systems they have in place and how they do those things.
Speaker 1Well, you mentioned the change grant. You have worked extensively in the world of grants and trying to get them and making connections and networking with organizations that might help y'all get grants. Mayor Gaskin to a considerable extent pitched and pushed grant funded projects for to to fill these big ideas that need to be done. Okay, grant funding right now is a tenuous situation.
Speaker 6Federal funding is a nice way to put it.
Speaker 7I'm trying to be diplomatic.
Speaker 6Unstable. Okay, so all right. Well, let's use your word.
Speaker 1Grant funding is unstable. You're a big idea guy. You've got a vision for the city. You've talked about it. You've talked about through the change grant. You talked about different things that could be done. Through the second grant that's sort of tangentially connected to that with the solar energy and the greening you've talked about yeah, you've talked about big ideas to get these things done and of course with that funding you can, but you're the mayor Say funding, grant funding has dried up. What changes?
Speaker 6Yeah, I can't tell you how much I appreciate that question. See, the purpose of the grant wasn't to fund the big ideas, it's to spark redevelopment, right? So what? The way it works is this See, I got to do an analogy when I was younger if a guy got a girlfriend, then other girls were interested, right, you understand what I'm saying. So what we wanted to do with the change grant was build some things. How do you know this?
Speaker 6I believe the fifth so, but honestly, once we start building in an area, it stops looking like it's a dilapidated area and it begins to look like the property's on sale.
Speaker 1And that's so Rising tide lifts all boats, exactly.
Speaker 6If you don't have holes in the boat Right.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 6So one of the things we were thinking about doing was how do we patch the holes in the community so that those communities can be lifted as well? That's why it's not just change grant, it is community change grant. So the purpose was to spark redevelopment, not to institute redevelopment. Public-private partnerships are how we do that.
Speaker 1Okay, there has been a lot said on. I'm sorry, and by the way.
Speaker 6The federal government aren't the only people that do grants. There are foundations that do grants.
Speaker 1Donations are down all over.
Public Works and Infrastructure Challenges
Speaker 6It is, it is, and I really do hope that this interesting time begins to kind of just. It's just so much uncertainty that it's hard for anybody to make decisions. If you've been paying attention, even down in Jackson, it's hard for them to just settle on a budget because everything is so unsettled right now. So we face that same thing, which is another point of mine. My background and my skill set will also allow me to maneuver through these really, really challenging times when things are not okay. I've spent the last 17 years making bricks without straw. That is the nonprofit world. The nonprofit world is always uncertain. So being able to continue to provide programming and continue to be able to feed people and open up warming, shelters and all of that, none of that stuff was with certainty. All of that stuff was how do we pivot? What do we need to do to make this stuff happen? I'll bring that along with engineering.
Speaker 1Okay, well, speaking of making bricks without straw and this was something that the sitting mayor has had a problem with this is a weak mayor. Weak mayor, strong council form of government. He's brought a lot of ideas to this council and have gotten so very few across the line. His straw was needing four votes from the council, right, and he hadn't been able to make very many bricks. How do you avoid that? I mean, especially as a candidate endorsed by him, right? How do you?
Speaker 6talk about walking the tightrope, I mean how do you?
Speaker 1I mean, I know the council may be it's going to have a few different people on it and we know that Right.
Speaker 6Well, one of the things that I always do is or that I better said, I'm not going to do is I won't do any smear campaigning, and here's why, at the end of this, we have to bring leaders together, right. And so when you start pitting sides against sides, no matter whether you win or not, you lose, because the ultimate goal for me is not to get the job, it's to do the work right. So if I fight like I'm trying to get the job, I get the job, and then nobody wants to work with me that's a problem.
Speaker 3Do you think that the push for a forensic audit was a type of smear campaign?
Speaker 6I don't know if it was a smear campaign, the push for forensic but it seemed to have been taken that way.
Speaker 3It certainly was.
Speaker 6Right. Well, I don't know if it's a smear campaign. I'm not sure how smart it is. Here's why, or, depending on how far you go back how smart it is, I'll tell you why. One of the things that we do as we go look for federal funds or any other funds is you have to prove your stewardship Right, and so if we, if we do a forensic audit that we're not confident is going to show up clean for us, then we have two problems. Number one is or if you do it, it could go one of two ways. Let's say it that way. The first way is we find something that was wrong and that's what we were looking for. We clap our hands because we were right, but then now we put a shadow over our city. So now we can't go get other funds Right. That's dumb, and we're trying to rebuild our city. Why would we put ourselves in a position?
Speaker 1where people don't trust us. I watched GI Joe when I was growing up and you know that old saying that knowledge is half the battle. Why would you?
Speaker 6Well, here's the other piece. The other piece is if you find nothing, then you wasted time. Now here's a third option. Here's another option. Another option is to we've done a really good job over the last four years with funding right. We build our capital fund, We've managed in a really transparent way, and if I could say one thing that I really am excited about or appreciative of this administration, it is the ability to turn that part right there around. So for the last four years, I'm confident. What it's going to say. Right Now, what I want to do is make sure that whoever I present our city to, they have the same level of confidence that we have, and that is where we are and where we've been for the last four years. You can trust us.
Speaker 1Okay, so on that point with the money, so, despite public and private statements made by different people at different times, the city isn't broke in your opinion.
Speaker 6I don't think so.
Speaker 1All right what is the city's financial position according to you?
Speaker 6It looked like they have about $5 million in the capital fund, right, and then when I looked at how the money is being spent, we're spending, we're trending on track and we have some areas where we might even be able to roll some money over again this year, so the city has gotten that kind of stuff under control. However, we're in a time where natural disasters are huge. Things can happen at any moment, so you need that emergency fund just in case the city is thrust into one of those natural disasters. I think we're better positioned to deal with those than we have been in the past.
Speaker 1Going back to the other subject, do you feel like the current council has been or is willing to work with you as it stands right now? Because from the looks of it, it doesn't look like. I'm just going to be honest with you it doesn't look like they like you very much.
Speaker 1It doesn't look like they like your ideas very much. Now I know some of that. Just going to be honest with you, it doesn't look like they like you very much. It doesn't look like they like your ideas very much. Now, I know some of that's going to be political because it's election season.
Speaker 6All of that is political. Those guys, I know those guys. We talk offline. We have way more stuff in common about what we want to do than we have. That's not.
Speaker 1What do you have in common with Ethel Stewart?
Speaker 6She wants to see Ward 1 better, just like I do. She wants to see Southside better.
Speaker 1In what ways do y'all agree that y'all can do that. Say she's on the council and you're the mayor. How can y'all work together for Ward 1?
Speaker 6Well, she and I have not talked about that yet. If she wins, we will. We will talk about it. We will talk about details. But I don't just know Ethel Stewart. I don't just know Ethel Stewart, I know her constituents. I know how they feel about her. Just had a conversation Sunday. This guy talked to me at length about how he felt about her. I won't tell you whether it was.
Speaker 1But you didn't talk to her.
Speaker 6I haven't talked to her in detail because we're in a political season. What about Pierre? Pierre? We chime in on each other on a regular basis. What ward do you live in? I live in Ward 1.
Speaker 1You live in Ward 1?.
Speaker 6Where Ethel Stewart is.
Speaker 1Okay, all right, but your church is in Ward 4?.
Speaker 6But the church is in Ward 4.
Speaker 1Okay, so have you talked to Pierre? Of course I've talked to Pierre.
Speaker 6I'm telling you what Pierre and I have talked about.
Speaker 3Okay, did you preach to him.
Building Consensus with City Council
Speaker 6I will tell you all the time, he and everybody else, no, no, no, I'm just kidding, but I think that the stuff that Pierre and I have talked about have been to understand one, his concerns about some of the work that we're trying to do.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, he disagrees entirely with the CAG. He disagrees entirely with redeveloping on Kerr-McGee until it's completely 100% certified, cleaned up, which may or may not be a practical way of looking at it, but that's what he's saying publicly and that's coming right back to his concerns about you and the CAG.
Speaker 6Right. Well, and I can't. All I could do with those kinds of things is share information, and from time to time he's open to that. He's open to just hearing the information.
Speaker 1But if you're the mayor and he's the ward forecounselman, you've got to have his vote occasionally. Well.
Speaker 6I need three votes.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 6Let me say that again, I need three votes, right? How many does he need?
Speaker 5How many does he?
Speaker 6need. He needs three votes. We're all in the same boat. When we sit there, man, when an idea is pitched, every one of us has got to get three other people to agree with us.
Speaker 1So how is your approach to getting three votes and your approach to governing the city as the chief executive different from the man who's sitting there now and endorsing you?
Speaker 6Well, the man that's sitting there now and endorsing me. He came into a contentious situation, right. The one thing that I made up my mind now, by the way, mayor Gaskin, was like the final straw. I didn't want to run for mayor. Let's be crystal clear. I have been asked about it almost since I got here, because I've done a whole lot of work. So people have asked me. The one thing I would not do was run against an incumbent mayor. So while Mayor Gaskin was saying to me you should think about this, and I'm saying, no, it's because he wasn't sure he wasn't going to run and I would never agree, and the one fleece that I threw out there was I won't run against an incumbent mayor.
Speaker 6So what Mayor Gaskin did was he. He switched a whole regime Right. We have Robert Smith for 15, 16 years, Right. So to come in and switch that out in a very contentious mayoral race, that was pretty. That pretty did a pretty good job of splitting the city down the middle. He had a task that I don't have. He's more like a buffer.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 6So when I come in I don't have that, because it's not as contentious, because everybody that's running will be first-time mayors. That was important to me. It was important to me that the person that's going out wouldn't pull all of their political muscle against me.
Speaker 2Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 6So with him going in with that. It just was a different dynamic than I have.
Speaker 1Okay, but I mean you're still looking at having to build consensus and you're still looking at having to be your own man instead of Keith 2.0. So what are the differences there?
Speaker 6Oh, by the way, keith and I are very different. I like him a lot. We're different the way we. I'll tell you the things I think we have in common, or this is probably going to sound a little bit self-aggrandizing, but I think he's really smart, I think he's really resourceful.
Speaker 6I think he's really smart. I think he's really resourceful. I think he's thoughtful. I think sometimes, because of the amount of pushback he's had, it's hard for him to really get his point out because they're pushing back so hard against each other. You know, it's not just a not, it's not a philosophical difference between the mayor and council.
Speaker 3The biggest complaint has been communication, and it is huge. It's huge. Do you suppose that maybe in his efforts to maintain transparency and not wanting to do something that's, that's dubious or against the law in terms of, you know, public leaders, this and that, that maybe he was therefore not?
Speaker 1communicative enough.
Speaker 6Yeah, I think that he walked into a contentious situation and for four years he had to deal with the fact that he was in a contentious situation.
Speaker 6That's the number one reason why. Now, were you there when I pushed the change grant? Yes, were you there when they voted to? They didn't vote. They made a motion to table it. Do you remember my what I did? I just said, okay, well, no, we're not going to table it. What I would prefer you to do is just vote it down, right, and here's why I have a direct inroad to the same constituents that they do. I've worked with their kids, I've worked with their grandkids. I've worked with some of their parents and grandparents, right? So I know these folks. I do stuff in the community all the time. So the reason I'm trying to make sure this race isn't contentious is because I don't want these same people that love both of us to have to choose. If I win, I will be able to get the same support that they had, because we're not like that Okay, but you've talked about how the situations are different.
Speaker 1Right you haven't talked about how you're different and how you would succeed as opposed to not Right, so let's just take communication as a micro here. How is your communication with the council as mayor? If you're mayor, how is your communication with the council different than what Mayor Gaskins has been?
Speaker 6I talk to everybody Except.
Speaker 3Ethel Stewart.
Speaker 6I talked to Ethel Stewart. Her husband is actually a fellow graduate of Tennessee State University. I don't have any issues with anybody, right? But what happens is when you're always in a contentious situation, you want to avoid those conversations as much as possible. I don't. That's just not how I function. I function. Let's get this stuff on paper and understand what we really disagree on.
Speaker 1So, in practice, mayor Darren Leach has an idea. Let's run it all the way through like a football player.
Speaker 5Let's do that.
Speaker 1Mayor Darren Leach has an idea doesn't know where everybody is on it and wants to get those three votes. Okay, so you're sitting in your office at city hall. What are your steps for getting those three votes?
Speaker 6So your your assumption is different than Darren Leach. Your assumption is Darren Leach has an idea. He wants to get his idea through. That's not how I function. The way I function is Darren Leach has an idea. I'll start talking to councilmen to make sure that the idea makes sense to them. And what kind of things do we need to do to massage the idea? How do we change the idea?
Speaker 3If they hate it, do you scrap it.
Speaker 6Not if they hate it. Most of the time people don't hate the idea. They hate portions, and it's the lack of communication that doesn't allow you to clearly identify the portions that are hated. Those are tough conversations. I'm not afraid to have those. I've been having those all my life.
Speaker 1And you're willing to shed the things that are just, even if it's your idea. You're willing to shed the things that aren't popular.
Speaker 6Well, not popular. That's not the right word.
Speaker 1Not passable.
Speaker 6I wouldn't even say passable, not passable. I wouldn't even say passable Because what happens is there may be something that can't be passed right now, but with some more understanding it could be passed later. So what I may say is there may be some things that we don't fully understand, but we continue to do the work and try to get to the understanding. Now you're asking me how I'm different. I don't see things that simple. I see things as okay. If he disagrees, he'll be able to either tell me why he disagrees, tell me why it's not a good idea and I fix it, or and if it's a bad idea, we scrap it. That's okay. It's okay to scrap bad ideas, right, but if it's not a bad idea, then we educate. Like that building over there on that Kermagee site.
Speaker 6I would have scrapped the whole project if I thought that we were completely off. We're not off, but they don't know. We're not off and the reason is because they didn't go to the meetings, so they don't talk to the experts. By the way, that's another thing that I would do. I listen to my experts. That's why you hire them. You hire your experts so they could tell you stuff and you believe them. It doesn't mean you don't question, but you question for understanding, but you trust your experts.
Speaker 3What do you say to the residents of Ward 4 who are just worried that their eyeballs are going to turn green at night?
Speaker 6You're talking about the same ones that are living in Ward 4 whose eyeballs have not turned green. Yeah, no, no See, I think part of that is just some fear mongering. Right, there are people that are telling folks that an issue exists.
Speaker 3On the part of whom?
Speaker 6No longer exists.
Speaker 3Well, who are the fear mongers?
Speaker 6Those that are saying it's going to kill us. It's going to kill us. You know who are the fear mongers? Those that are saying it's going to kill us. It's going to kill us. Right, my grandmother?
Speaker 5you know and you don't want to minimize the past.
Speaker 6You can't do that.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 6That's true, it did happen, but the conditions under which that happened are not the same conditions as they are today. The conditions that the ground was under is not the same conditions today.
Speaker 1A lot of people don't believe that EPA's not the same conditions. A lot of people don't believe that epa's telling them that right and and and and. We've asked people, uh, we've asked people who believe the other way. We've been just as we've just bored into them just as much. Right, you know epa saying it's clean enough to, uh, we asked robert on here last week. So I mean, but a lot of people don't believe that. How do you make them believe it? Oh, you can't make people believe.
Speaker 6That's the one thing. That's weird. How do?
Speaker 1you get them to believe? How do you proselytize the idea that the EPA is?
Speaker 6right. I tell you what we try to do. What we try to do is educate people, right, and when you try to educate people, the one thing that logic is hard for logic to overcome is faith. When people believe stuff, it's hard to overcome if they just say I don't care what you say, I don't believe you, I don't care what you say, I don't trust the EPA. Now let me tell you what I will show, though. What I will show is there are places all around the country where this has already happened, right, and we'll continue to get that kind of information out.
Speaker 1Yeah, this isn't the only Superfund site. This isn't the only.
Speaker 6Superfund site. To think you're the only Superfund site will make you scared. Now here's the other piece. Let me get this out and then I'm going to let you ask the question. The other piece is there is this whole other thing called unwanted displacement or gentrification. That happens when you don't know what you have your hands on for an extended period of time. Somebody at some point is going to look at that property and say it's not just a problem, it's on sale, and they're going to go get that property at that sale price and they're going to start redeveloping that property. My concern is to make sure that grandmama, who lived through all of the suffering, that she doesn't get priced out of her property through taxes and other things after it's cleaned up. So I'm not concerned about the fear-mongering. I don't want to add insult to injury and the people that are fear-mongering don't know that that exists and it has happened everywhere that people didn't get ahead of it but we're ahead of it.
Speaker 3So I'm hearing you speak about private investment on that land? Yes, sir, okay, that's a great concept to me and I'm sitting here thinking about is there specific concessions that you might make, just so that it's not just rocks and gravel out there?
Speaker 6Oh yeah, wouldn't that be the worst? Wouldn't it be the worst to just have rocks and gravel out there, to have this big old open space in the middle of what used to be a vibrant community, when we could redevelop it and do something productive with it? So, yes, we would look at private investment out there, but we have to spark it. We have to give the private investors something to make them feel like growth is starting over there.
Speaker 3What about a thoroughfare Martin Luther King, straight southward?
Speaker 6Don't do that Right through my grandmama's backyard. No.
Speaker 3That would bring her land value up, though wouldn't it?
Kerr-McGee Site Redevelopment Plans
Speaker 6No, don't do that. Don't do that. No, that would not be something I would be supportive of. Columbus has a really, really good community. I don't know if we ever want to be like a two below as fast as two below, because it's a friendly city, has a lot of charm to it and the more people that you talk to, the more you know how charming our city is. I believe personally that they're just some sections that have not had the same type of investment and attention that other sections have. As we start getting investment and attention to all of those sections, columbus becomes a friendly city we want it to be. You have a question?
Speaker 1Last couple of questions that I have for you, sure, because I know you're going to the day of prayer.
Speaker 6I've got to go pray, and after this I'm probably going to need more. No, I'm just kidding. This hasn't been bad at all Okay.
Speaker 1So you talked about how willing you are to adapt your own ideas to cross-examination from council, right?
Speaker 4All right, you talked about that.
Speaker 1But there's another area of this, which is knowing a good idea, no matter who it comes from from the outside.
Speaker 6Right.
Speaker 1So if Robert Smith brings you an idea, we're running with it.
Speaker 6If it's a good idea, we're going man. Who it is is irrelevant right. If Stephen Jones brought a good idea, we're running with it. You know, I don't care who it is Bill Struth, who it is. Here's why my ultimate goal is to rebuild our communities, and all these guys that have run or are running have some good ideas. We got to pull all that stuff together and make it happen, so I don't care where the idea comes from.
Speaker 1All right. Last thing I have for you, and not that it did him a whole lot of good because he lost his primary, but in a forum, during the Democratic mayor's primary, one thing that Leroy Brooks said that I thought was pretty funny and also had some teeth to it was no matter where you walk and I'm paraphrasing no matter where you walk in Columbus, you're going to see the footprints of Leroy Brooks, right? All right. So there you know. He believes that there's some truth to that statement, right right, you're not as well known, right, but you've been here a while, right? So what are, in the community, the footprints of Darren Leach?
Speaker 6Oh man, you got to. It's weird. I just went canvassing yesterday and when I was canvassing yesterday, I had a chance to walk up on this young lady. She was about 27 years old. As a matter of fact, my wife and I walked up on two young ladies. One was 20, they both were 27, 28 years old and they both said the same thing to me. Don't you remember me Right? Because we work with about a thousand children through our after school programs. I do not know how many people we fed through our feeding programs. I don't know how many guys call me because they've come through our warming stations.
Speaker 6Our footprint is one of service. That's what we do. We serve, right. And so when I, when I moved into working with the CAG more deeply and really trying to understand how to bring resources to Columbus, what I realized was this office just gives me a chance to take that up a notch, which is why I'm not fighting with people, because getting the job is not my goal. My footprint is to continue to build things or serve in ways that make our city better, that make our city better. Yeah, so my footprint won't be on the rocks yet, but if you talk to people and you go into the communities. I'm not as unknown as you might think.
Speaker 1I just don't go out there tooting my own horn, because that is Well, that's detrimental to a mayoral campaign. It is right.
Speaker 6You're talking about something that makes me uncomfortable. This is the part that makes me uncomfortable. I thought it was weird that it wasn't until the mayor kind of started outing me that people started talking about the fact that I had an engineer's degree. Well, the people in my community know, they knew, you know, they remember when I was in independent studies in high school. They knew when I was a future problem-solving bowl champion for the state of Mississippi. They know that stuff. They know that I've always worked to solve problems. But because I don't toot my own horn and I did when I was younger don't do it now because of my principles. My principles have changed.
Speaker 3I got a whole other thing I'm working on right, so I can't do that stuff, but it doesn't mean, I didn't do it, and so what I'm hoping is the stuff that I did will speak for me. That will do it. I have enjoyed listening to you today. I feel that you've had much more meat in what you've talked about than I thought would be there, it's not pie in the sky stuff. You've had some stuff to chew on on, so we are very much grateful for you coming in this studio here today I appreciate you guys letting me in one of.
Speaker 6I will say one of. The reasons I talk in generalities most of the time is because of the amount of time you have.
Speaker 6You know, in two minutes you got to give the overview right you can't tell the details in a two minute conversation, but what I've talked to you about today isn't a fraction of what. The discussions we will have to have with different department heads, with different organizations, with pulling together, taken a long time to get here. Get there to think in the first couple of days we're going to get it fixed Not true. But what we will do is we will start to change the culture, and it all starts with unity. That's why I'm not fighting. I'm not fighting because it's hard to talk about somebody's parents or their kids in one setting and then, 20 minutes later, say, well, let's work together. It ain't going to happen, right? So if the parents and children are not relevant to this conversation, let's leave them out of it and let's talk about how we can build the city and see whose ideas prevail. That's my strategy, and I don't care who's running with me, whether it's the mayor or whether it's anybody else. That's my strategy and I'm not. I'm not shifting from it.
Speaker 1Well.
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Speaker 31721 Highway 45 North in Columbus. Do you want to start your own podcast? Catfish Alley Studio has the space, gear and support to bring your voice to life. Whether you're launching a show or learning to play music, we help creators sound their best. Book your session today at catfishalleycom. I want to let you know about a forum that will be with all three of the mayoral candidates Mr Stephen Jones, mr Darren Leach and Mr Bill Strauss. That is May 27th at the Lyceum at Lee, from 6 to 7 30. All three have agreed to be there and you will want to reserve a ticket. No cost for that ticket, but reserve that ticket at cdispatchcom slash forum. This forum is sponsored by the Dispatch and by the Lyceum at Lee. Okay, mr Zach. What do we think about Pastor Leach?
Speaker 1Well, you, know I thought that as specifics went or, as you know, drilling down on his vision went, you know I thought that today we got a little better look than we have in the stump speeches obviously, and, you know, maybe in some other things that he's done. But of course you know there have been very few forums that he's been a part of. You know he'll be a part of ours on May 27th. Maybe we'll drill down some more there.
Speaker 3What did you think I thought he had quite a bit of substance and meat. I thought that I was actually stricken by how he spoke about data and data collection and data analysis. He said that he intends to trust the experts, which is not something you want to say in Republican circles these days, but be that the case. When it comes to something like that Superfund site or these matters of engineering or moving the city forward on a piece of property that at one point was polluted, I think it's very, very important, because if we don't listen to, or at least we don't read, the reports on what's actually there, we end up either living off of fear and therefore doing nothing, or, worse, we pull the trigger on something that's not financially feasible and, you know, end up maybe building something where water is going to come over it, and you know I don't want to go back on that, but you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 3We've got to look at the data and we've got to know what we're getting into before we pull the trigger.
Speaker 1Well, one thing that that struck me because the biggest thing that he's going to have to do he talked about it being a tightrope You've got a sitting mayor right now that's endorsing him that there are very different opinions on.
Speaker 1There are people who really like Mayor Gaskin, really like what he's done, really like him as a person, and there are people who are more in line with the majority of the council on that front.
Speaker 1And I think a lot of the criticism, some of the criticism of Mayor Gaskin, has been fair and some of it hasn't been.
Speaker 1Some of it, has you know, bordered on childish if you want to know the truth.
Speaker 1Has, you know, bordered on childish if you want to know the truth. But having Keith's endorsement, also being willing to and able to differentiate yourself from him during the campaign, it's going to be very important for him and I think that one of the ways that he clearly expressed that is through how he was going to communicate, how he was going to build consensus with ideas. And I think that you know, if he executes what he said today, if that's the kind of if he wins and that's what he does, then I think that that's going to be a lot more effective than than what Keith has done in trying to build consensus. Effective than what Keith has done in trying to build consensus and the fact that he said that he knows an idea, a good idea when he hears one, and it doesn't matter who brings it to him. I think. Apologies to Keith. I think that separates him from the sitting mayor as well, and I think that's going to be a pretty big deal if he were to get the seat.
Speaker 1I do think that he's a passionate guy and there's a big difference between passion and results, and there's also a big difference between sitting here in a chair and saying that something's going to work a certain way. It'd be interesting to see just how optimistic he would stay the first time that he was really presented with the kind of resistance that political pushback from the majority of the council can render to an idea that would be interesting to see.
Speaker 3My intuition tells me that it would just roll off of his back like duck feathers. I mean, he was cool as a cucumber in here today. I think we grilled him fairly well. I would also say that the endorsement of the sitting mayor, that's not small ball. That's some good stuff. That's not, you know, like Biden endorsing Kamala. That was not quite so weighty, was it. But in here today, again, substance meat. And I don't think that Mayor Gaskin's endorsement is going to backfire on him. I think quite the opposite. Some of those ideas, perhaps, that Mayor Gaskin wanted to push forward, but the resistance was there. But there were people that really wanted to get those ideas pushed forward, but they just didn't want to do it. With Keith Gaskin, I think the opportunity is still there and the ground is still fertile.
Speaker 1Well, you've also got another problem that we haven't talked about for Darren specifically, which is the presence of Bill Strauss in this race. Bill's not going to split the vote between Darren and Steven, it's going to be split between him and Darren.
Speaker 1And that's my opinion, because when you roll through Southside and you see all the Darren Leach signs, that tells me that Darren is competing with Bill for space and Darren cancel each other out at the polls than it is for any other two candidates to cancel each other out at the polls. I don't know.
Speaker 3We'll have to see about that one. I'm going to really speak with Peter and see if we can go live on election night have a live broadcast of Between the Hit Lines. We're doing it live.
Speaker 1I've got to cover that election, man, I'm not going to have time to be at two places at once.
Speaker 3Delegation.
Speaker 1All right. Today we have with us the Main Street Executive Director, barbara Bigelow, and the Festival Coordinator for Main Street, amber Brizlin, and they're here to talk to us about the Market Street Festival. Are y'all excited for this weekend?
Speaker 8We are excited, yes, 29th annual 29th annual.
Speaker 1Well, this one's going to be a little different than ones in the past. Can y'all kind of explain I know y'all talked about it a lot, but can y'all explain a little bit the changes that were made and the rationale behind it?
Speaker 7Certainly, you know we try each year to make the festival improve from the year before. We see what works well, what we can improve on. So this year we are moving off of Main Street. Main Street will be open and we're not taking anything away from the festival, we're just moving it all a block south.
Speaker 5Okay.
Speaker 7So you can still expect everything that you've come to love about the festival all the vendors stages. It does have a different footprint, but the main change is the food court has relocated to the parking lot between College Street and 3rd Avenue South and the car show has relocated to College Street. The Children's Hands-On Market will be on College Street and the main stage will be at the corner of 3rd Avenue South and 5th Street South.
Speaker 8You know what people don't or what we like to say is we block off a certain number of blocks for the festival. We always have the same area these areas that we've moved to have been vacant, We've not used them at all. So we're just taking areas that we did use, that now we can open up to the public, and we're moving them to areas that were blocked off, that we weren't even using. Really, Okay.
Speaker 1So it just makes perfect sense.
Speaker 7But the kids' area is the same, it's all the same. And guess what? It's a little more walkable this year.
Speaker 8That's right. It would be great for families with kids.
Speaker 1Speaking of families with kids, my family will be there and they have certain things that they need to do at festivals Fried pickles, funnel cake, chicken on a stick. We got all those boxes checked.
Speaker 7What would a festival be with all three of those? Okay?
Speaker 1so I can tell my family we can get the fried pickles, the funnel cake and the chicken on a stick.
Speaker 7You forgot the bounce house.
Speaker 1Bounce house yes.
Speaker 7All the great music, the train rhymes, the music. Of course they're going to buy some great arts and crafts. We have some wonderful vendors coming this year Many return vendors, many new vendors.
Speaker 3What kind of weather are y'all going to bring us this year?
Speaker 7Beautiful.
Speaker 3I can't wait.
Speaker 7They call it Chamber of Commerce. Chamber of Commerce.
Speaker 3Let it sprinkle on us Usually Market Street. I'm so looking to go forward out there and see who all has gotten older Not myself, everybody else gets older. But then it's the first really hot day of what feels like summer, so like I'm excited about just a little bit of sprinkling, you know, rain on me a little bit well, maybe it'll sprinkle on you but hey, you know what market street is rain or shine okay, so no rain, contingency, no change, just it is what it is.
Speaker 7The show will go on.
Speaker 1The show will go on, okay.
Speaker 8Now, of course, we're very safety conscious. If the weather is indeed bad lightning, thunder and there's storms and things of that nature, we don't, you know carry the festival through.
Speaker 3Zach's going to be out there like Lieutenant Dan. If it gets bad, he's just going to be white.
Speaker 1Oh right, that's not true. I run from rain.
Speaker 8After you eat the pickle.
Speaker 1That's right, I'm the chicken on the stick guy.
Speaker 7My wife is the fried pickle person. Those big turkey legs that we're walking around with, oh, really, yes, oh okay, I'm going to need to get one of those.
Speaker 7All right. So last thing I I have is when do I need to move my car? Well, depends on where your car is. We will begin closing a few areas at 6 am Friday morning. That's the parking lot where the food court will be located, as well as Catfish Alley those so right outside the front door here. Those will close at 6 am. All the other surrounding areas will close at 3 pm on Friday afternoon. So we appreciate everyone's cooperation with that, and that is strictly so that we can allow everything to come in and everybody set up and get ready for the next day.
Speaker 8Well, we do have the street closing information on our website, on our Facebook page. It will be in all the local media this week so everyone can check those venues as well to see what will be available, what parking lots are available and when the streets will close.
Speaker 7And I want to add too with the opening of Main Street this year, parking will be available on Main Street, so you can walk from Main Street, you can walk from Fifth Street North, you can park wherever you want to, but there is a little closer parking this year.
Speaker 1All right. Well, we really appreciate you guys coming on and talking about the festival. I'm looking forward to being there this weekend.
Speaker 8We are too, I would like to point out, if y'all don't mind, be sure, and remember our local merchants downtown.
Speaker 3They're here for us year-round and they'll be open on that day, offering some fabulous promos as well, so be sure and visit them while you're around. Thank you very much, that will do it. We thank our listeners for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, share and rate, and send us your comments. We would love to hear from you. Tips at cdispatchcom Again, that is, tips at cdispatchcom. You can also follow me on Facebook or X at the Chisholm 00. Signing out from Catfish Alley Studios in historic downtown Columbus. Your host has been Zach Player and I am David Chisholm. Until next time, let us not grow weary in well-doing. Y'all keep it friendly and we'll keep it real.
Speaker 2Opinions expressed on this show are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the Commercial Dispatch.
