Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
In Studio: Jeffrey Rupp, former Columbus mayor
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Columbus municipal elections brought a major shakeup with Stephen Jones winning the mayoral race and five of seven council seats changing hands amid disappointingly low voter turnout. Former mayor Jeffrey Rupp joins the podcast to provide historical perspective on Columbus politics, economic development, and the differences between Columbus and Starkville governance.
• Low voter turnout of only 4,500 ballots in Columbus elections reflects growing political apathy
• Stephen Jones secured victory with 56.4% of votes, including strong absentee ballot performance
• Ward 4 saw surprise upset with Lavonne Harris defeating incumbent Pierre Beard
• Jeffrey Rupp discusses Columbus' strengths including historic homes and Riverwalk development
• Key differences between Columbus' confrontational politics versus Starkville's collaborative approach
• Columbus positioned for potential rebranding opportunity with new leadership
• Economic development requires strategic investments and unified vision
Keep sending your comments and questions to tips@cdispatch.com.
Introducing Between the Headlines
Speaker 1From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 2This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity and our reporting will always reflect that. And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3This week, on Between the Headlines, the big shakeup for the Columbus City Council. We will break it down and in the studio we have former mayor and business mogul, Mr Jeffrey Rupp. But first, retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over 40 years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor.
Breaking Down Columbus Election Results
Speaker 3Benton's Maintenance and Mechanical makes easy work out of plumbing, electrical heating and air conditioner problems. You can book an appointment by phone or online and rest assured they will show up at the appointed time. Call Benton's at 662-657-2583 or visit them online at bentonsinccom. That is bentonsinccom you are listening to Between the Headlines, with Chief Political Correspondent and Managing Editor of the Commercial Dispatch, Mr Zach Player, and my name is David Chisholm. Today we talk about elections, All right, so I've got the paper here and I am looking at the vote counts. Let's start with Mayor. We've got Jones bringing in unofficially 2471, which is 56.4 percent, Bill Strauss 1263, which is 28.8 percent, and Darren Leach 707, 14.8.
Speaker 3What do we learn from this.
Speaker 1Well, congratulations to Stephen for one thing. Yeah, I know we want to talk about the turnout. That turnout is abysmal and I don't know. I mean, I think that there's just a lot of fatigue generally in politics right now. I'm not, you know, fatigue, fatigue.
Speaker 1And I don't know whether it's being generated top down or bottom up, but I think everywhere you look like voting totals are starting to to dip in elections. I hope that's not a trend we continue to see. It wasn't any better in Starkville. As a matter of fact, it was a lot worse, but yeah, the turnout here was was pretty low. Fact, it was a lot worse, but, yeah, the turnout here was pretty low, and I really hope that there's something that happens that turns that around a little bit. I don't know if you have any specific thoughts on that.
Speaker 3Well, I mean, turnout was low. You're looking at Columbus 4,500 ballots. Cast-ish give or take Starkville to your point less than 3,000 ballots cast there, starkville, to your point, less than 3,000 ballots cast there.
Speaker 3I'm going to be a negative, nancy, on this. It's pathetic. It's absolutely awful. My thoughts go back to and this was a while back Operation Iraqi Freedom. I'm not saying it was a good war or a bad war, but think about that when those locals over there got liberated and they took their thumb and pressed it against it, and they would. They would have the ink on their thumb and they were so happy that they get to do something that they never before got to do, and that is cast their vote and not be controlled by a regime or by some higher human power that just told them what to do and where to do it. And here we are with all the freedom in the world and all the mechanisms to complain in the world, and we don't even show up to vote. And so to those who get on Facebook and complain about potholes and this and that and the other, I'm just going to be blunt. You need to just delete your account and be done. If you're not going to show up to vote, what's the point?
Speaker 1Okay, Well, I think there's a lot of apathy and I think that there's a lot of. I think that there's more and more a sense of what does it matter, what does it change? And I'm not saying I agree with that. I want to make that very clear. I don't think that apathy is healthy, but I do think that there needs to be I mean there needs to be some recognition that it matters.
Speaker 2And because it does, it does matter.
Speaker 1It matters a whole lot to your daily life, especially your local elections. When you know, people argue about the presidential election and in most cases, the local elections are the ones that affect you the most often and the most profoundly. Look no further than how you feel if your trash isn't picked up one day. Those are the types of things up one day. Those are the types of things and, for whatever reason, that engagement is disconnecting, that apathy is setting in and the fact that it doesn't matter how I vote. Nothing's going to change.
Speaker 1I think the onus is on the people to do a little different than that and be willing to be a part of the process and not think automatically that they're not. This voter turnout is a call to the leaders who are elected by really small minorities of the electorate to enhance that engagement, to reach out. Part of the job of being a community leader is to recruit that engagement, enhance that engagement, promote that engagement, and I think that local leaders can do a lot better job of that and I think a you know, community members, citizens generally, can do a little bit better job knowing that their voice does matter and giving that a shot. Well, certainly it matters, does matter and giving that a shot.
Voter Turnout and Political Apathy
Speaker 3Well, certainly it matters, and from my perspective, there are a couple of things at play. Number one Republicans have been in power in Mississippi for so long that a malaise has fallen across. You know what I mean? There's no drive there, because Republicans tend to take things for granted. Well, that's going to bite my party in the rear end.
Speaker 1That's not a Republican specific issue. It's not Republican. Anytime that you've got any one group that you know has the baton and has it all the time.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1What happens is you get lazy voters and lazy leaders. What happens is you get lazy voters and lazy leaders and you don't have the impetus from your leaders to think well, I'm going to have to compromise on something, I'm going to have to think about this differently than I'm thinking about it. They can ramrod through their agendas and say, well, to heck with you, because what are you going to do about it. Tell you the last person that that actually paid for that, uh, paid for taking a stand like that publicly was, uh, jeff smith, the former state representative, who said something very, very similar to that at an exchange club meeting and he got his head handed to him at the at the polls. But I think most of the time that that really was saying the quiet part out loud when he said what he said at the exchange club, which was you know, if you don't like it, so be it, you're stuck with me.
Speaker 1I think when the Republicans are in charge, wherever Republicans are in charge, without any sort of democratic, valid democratic challenge, this is what you get.
Speaker 1Challenge, this is what you get when you have Democrats, whether it's on a city level, a state level or a federal level, that can get the baton and not have to worry about really getting beaten in an election. Might have to worry about getting primaried, but they're not going to get beat by a Republican, then what's the use in even talking to them? And I think that, as people see that to your point, I think as people see that, whether it's coming from the Republicans or the Democrats on the local, state or federal level, people get tired and people get sick, and so they ask themselves the question why am I part of this process? Am I part of the problem by being part of this process? So no, the answer is no, you're not. You need to vote. But on the other side of it, I think that leaders need to act in better faith, to be leaders for their entire constituency and not just the ones that they know are going to show up and vote for.
Speaker 3I think the other side of that is cultural. You look at how we spend our time now. We spend a whole lot less time with family and a whole lot more time on the gadgets OK, and the gadgets does not. They do not give you local information, except for between the headlines with Zach and David. Ok, we give some pretty good local content there, but most of what you see on the gadget through Facebook, whatever, it's about that national stuff that we can't do a whole lot about other than vote once every four years, right, and then maybe throw our opinion out there and let it dissolve into the ocean, but here, locally, it matters it matters so much
Speaker 3more and it does make a difference. And when you look at forty five hundred votes you really see how much of a difference that one powerful vote can make. And with that I mean congratulations to Mr Stephen Jones, who is our new mayor elect. I thought he performed quite well. He had 20 percent of his votes were absentee. He had 20 percent of his votes were absentee. Second place Bill Strauss. Only 8 percent of his votes were absentee.
Speaker 1I'm looking at that, wondering what we make of that. Well, I think that it's that I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say that there's any funny business at all, and I want to make that very clear, because there's. You know, there are ways in the city of Columbus for mayor or for even the council seats, you're going to need to have an absentee strategy. That's not telling people to vote for you or intimidating them into voting for you, but making sure that your folks are calling and getting their ballot, their mail-in ballot, or making sure they're going up there and voting absentee if they're not going to be here on election day. And I think that, uh, the jones camp clearly did that and, again, nothing wrong with that at all, but it but it was clearly a priority for them. And I think that, uh, you see, in a lot of the winners up and down the line, with the exception of one race, the ones that the ones that made absentee voting part of their campaign strategy, did well.
Speaker 3Yeah, darren, leach 707. Man, I thought the apostle would have gotten more votes than that.
Speaker 1Well, you know, let me just dive in here if I can, and I want to, and I want to start with. I want to start with Stephen, since he won. You know, stephen, he can be. He can be a good mayor, even a great mayor. You know that takes working with people, communicating, building consensus, keeping his administration transparent and accountable. He's capable of all those things. I've seen it. Those are his talking points and I think that and I think that he's good for it. But you know, I think about this. I think about this line from the Simon and that old Simon and Garfunkel song If he acts like the boxer from that Simon and Garfunkel song and carries the reminders of every glove that laid him down or cut him, things are going to suck in Columbus for the next four years.
Speaker 1At times in this campaign and at times as a councilman during this current administration and term, he's shown tendencies to be like that boxer and he's got to be better than that as mayor, and so that's really the, I think, the challenge for the hope and the challenge for Steven is to you know, the hope is that he's going to do what he says he's going to do. He's going to be a good communicator, he is going to be willing to work with everybody. I've seen him do that. I've seen him do it effectively. So he can. But he's got to stay out of his pride and he's got to take, and he's got to take a loss like a man when they come. He can do that too. But I just I hope for him that the weight of that office doesn't have him in his pride more often than it has him in his, in the element of his, of his better angels and leadership.
Speaker 3Well, I'll give him the benefit of a doubt. I hope that he can do that and I feel like he is a grown adult and I feel like he is plenty capable, and I just hope that he will let things happen that he disagrees with when necessary, and I hope that he will not let his personal grievances affect his governance.
Speaker 1And I mean and that's a challenge for anybody that's elected to office but it's something that we've seen him do both things and I hope he picks the good road more often than the bad road there. Now, bill's and Darren's results were pretty predictable. Yeah, bill hustled his whole campaign. He worked his butt off, but he wasn't going to pull significant votes away from Stephen, for a whole lot of obvious reasons. One maybe not as obvious Jones effectively tied Bill to a better Columbus. He did it in the mayoral forum, he did it during his campaign. That's something that Bill never really denied, ran away from or made never really denied, ran away from or made any real effort to back away from, and that significantly reduces your pool of potential supporters because ABC, whether you agree with them or not, that's a polarizing bunch of people.
Speaker 3We could dedicate an entire episode to A Better Columbus and I think that episode would be somewhere along the lines of you saying maybe they're a racist organization.
Speaker 1Well, don't cast a version of what I'm going
Speaker 3to say Maybe not, maybe not, but my perspective would be right. My perspective would be that they just go after criminality and criminality sees no color, and I could pose to you a list of folks that they have gone after that happen to be the same color as I am.
Speaker 1The point I'm trying to make. Yeah. That when you're tied to ABC, which is a polarizing group that has been, you know, much celebrated and much maligned, depending on who you are, I think it makes a good chunk of your voters anti-status quo, or it made a big chunk of Bill's voters anti-status quo more than they were pro-Bill, and you weren't going to win with that this time. I think that there are other election cycles. Maybe last time that that would have been a more effective strategy wasn't going to be one this time.
Speaker 3Well, the negativity is certainly something that pushes certain people away. Right, that's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1David. That's all I'm trying to say. By contrast, darren had two problems. He had one where the endorsement of a very obviously unpopular Keith Gaskin and you know we talked about last time Darren didn't start really campaigning until like a month ago. I've believed all along and even had a strong Stephen Jones supporter tell me this week that if Darren starts his campaign in January and he doesn't have the Keith albatross around his neck, tuesday might have been really close. But I would encourage Darren to shake this off and use the next four years to get more involved in the city in various ways. Be more conspicuous with his nonprofit work, apply for boards and commissions. That way you force Stephen and the council to either reject you or prove that they are what they say they are and can work with anybody. Then in 2029, if you think Stephen's been a good mayor, endorse him If he doesn't run against him.
Speaker 3I concur. I think that the potential is definitely there. I hope he does not fade away into the night. Now you talked about endorsements. Stephen Jones had a couple of very big endorsements, particularly toward the end. He had a video posted by none other than former governor candidate Brandon Presley.
Speaker 1Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 3That was a big deal. And then, of course, the good Lord was on his side. Let's not forget that. Listen, I'm always going to make fun of that kind of stuff. He thanked the good Lord for his victory, as that's fine to do, and then he went from there to Yobar, and I'm wondering if the Lord was at Yobar, do I?
Speaker 1want to go to the Lord is everywhere, David.
Speaker 3Well, I want to go to Yobar and experience the Lord's presence.
Ward 4 Surprise: LaVon Harris Defeats Pierre Beard
Speaker 1Well, if you would have been to Yobar that night, you would have probably, from the videos that I saw of it, you would have experienced Rick Mason's presence. You would have experienced, uh, experienced, rick mason's presence. Um, you would have experienced joseph daughtry's presence and you would have experienced, possibly, pierre beard's presence now, you used the word stun in your sub headline yes for him um.
Speaker 1Like, all right, you go first on him well, I mean, for me that was clearly the surprise of the night, with LeVon Harris beating Pierre Beard. I saw the, I saw Pierre's video and you know, he, he, he congratulated LeVon. He showed, showed a lot of class in his concession. He conceded to her, I think right after the polls closed on Facebook.
Speaker 3But he wrote on Facebook that that he did six good years, yeah, and when I read that, to be honest, I had to read that again because I thought he was talking about something else there for a second. But you know, let me talk about Pierre for a second. I like Pierre on a personal level and I hope that he has great success in the private sector. Now, as far as working in public office, I've said it and I'll continue to say it the things that he got in trouble for were just not okay for somebody that has that level of responsibility.
Speaker 1It hurt him that has that level of responsibility.
Speaker 3It hurt him and you know my hat tips to the people in Ward 4 that basically said, hey, we're tired of this garbage, we need a better example to be set. And it hurts me to try to condescend, because we all have sin, we all get in trouble.
Speaker 2We all make stupid choices.
Speaker 3But you know, when you're in that level you've got to make good choices, and I just wish him well and all 18 people living in his house.
Speaker 1Well, you know he changed his address so people would leave his. So ABC would leave his grandmama alone and I commend him for that. So his voter registration now has you where he is living on Waterworks.
Speaker 3Road. More on that in a second. But let's take a listen to our sponsors. Do you have knee pain, muscle weakness, swelling or cold feet? Call King Associates Cardiology for an appointment today at 662-368-1169. King Associates Cardiology we care and it shows. Do you need a space for your next event? The 7th Street Center has been just what you're looking for. We can accommodate groups of 50 to 800. Call today to 800-662-630-2442 to reserve your space. Do you want to start your own podcast? Catfish Alley Studio has the space, gear and support to bring your voice to life. Whether you're launching a show or learning to play music, we help creators sound their best. Book your session today at catfishalleycom. Ok, back to politics in just a second, but we have some breaking news out of the Clarion Ledger early this morning. We have a lottery winner in Columbus the match five for one, point two million dollars and person may not be from Columbus, but the ticket was bought here.
Speaker 3It was bought at Columbus, the 69 Mart. Okay, I think that's the one on Yorkville Road right there at.
Speaker 2Idlewild.
Speaker 3But somebody in New Hope or somewhere is going to be quite happy very, very soon.
Speaker 1Well, you know, and that's a, I think that beat the record of I want to say it was 900,000 or somewhere in there for that match five game and the previous record holder was somebody who bought a ticket in West Point.
Speaker 3West Point.
Speaker 1The Golden Triangle is a lucky place if you want to play match five sounds like.
Speaker 3Well, we need luck here. Let's get back into politics, shall we? We were talking about Ward 4.
Speaker 1Ward 4. And the day after the election I saw Pierre post a video on Facebook in which he said I'm good no fewer than a dozen times. And if you have to tell somebody I'm good that many times, I don't know if you are Well. I hope he is good. Well, I hope he is Well, I hope so. But he's got plans. He said at the end of that video that he was going to run for District 5 supervisor in Lowndes County in 2027.
Speaker 1I'm not even going to touch that. I don't think he has a future in county politics. He has a better chance winning the Ward 4 council seat back in four years. I think he's dependent on staying out of trouble for the next two years, then running on his you know, honestly pretty decent council record, without the behavioral baggage. Here's the problem with that. I love Pierre to death but he's an emotional, impulsive guy. I mean, that's just the honest truth about him. He would probably say that about himself. He would have to control those things with great discipline at a time when he's not under a public microscope, which is harder to do.
Speaker 1He didn't even get through Tuesday night without coming into the municipal complex. You should have been there, man In the courtroom. I'm talking to somebody. All of a sudden I hear a cowbell ringing behind me and I turn around and it's Pierre in the municipal courtroom on election night ringing a cowbell over there by Stephen. But cops had to take it away from him. So I mean, that's what he did Tuesday night. So the next two years, I don't know. I do wish him well. I hope he gets his life together. And you know, next two years, I don't know. I do wish him well, I hope he gets his life together and you know, if he does, I.
Speaker 3Well, Pierre, if you're listening and you want to ride with me to a state game, you can bring the cow bill to that.
Speaker 1Well, he may ring it in the car, so you may want to roll the window down. I'll deal with it. Okay, Now LaVon, when she says she knocked on 4,000 doors, I believe it. I also believe she has a heart for doing this job the right way for the right reason. You know, it's definitely going to be a different vibe than the last four years and I wish her well also.
Speaker 3Yeah, I'm looking at that particular race and comparing it with some of the others. I predict in the next council is that there is going to be a lot less, maybe, testosterone in the room, or maybe fewer urination contests, shall we say. You know, we've got LaVon Harris in there and I think that she's going to do well. I think that she's going to communicate effectively to do well. I think that she's going to communicate effectively and I'm not sad about her winning that race at all.
New Council Dynamics and City Branding
Speaker 3I don't have a whole lot of words for my new friend, mr Bobby Johnson IV. I think he's going to be a good influence on this town. But look at that race and you've got Jason Spears in now and now. He's a ballsy guy, but he's not going to be confrontational, he's not going to get into the muck in the mire. In fact, when I talk about Jason Spears, I think of someone who there's not going to be a lot of people to want to argue with him, because he's got a lot of facts and figures in his mind and they will be at risk of embarrassing themselves. Ok, so there's that, and then let's see who else we've got. We've got.
Speaker 2Mr Gary Jefferson.
Speaker 3Now, that man soft spoken, a gentleman Likewise, I don't see him getting in the mire. That man soft-spoken, a gentleman Likewise, I don't see him getting in the mire, and so I'm very optimistic about this particular change. And then you've got a new guy, roderick Smith. I hope that he's smart enough to listen, you know, because he's super young and super energetic. He's super young and super energetic and if he will listen and, you know, not be tempted to start things right, get the ego going, we've got some very good potential for positive branding in this town.
Speaker 1You've got five of the seven possible seats. You've got five of them turning over. One of them that didn't turn over board one, ethel, wiped the floor with the sitting mayor, ethel Stewart, and this is the clearest evidence that much of what happened Tuesday was indeed a referendum on Keith, and I wasn't surprised at all by the result. Matter of fact, I think I called it down to the percentages more than once on the podcast. I said it'd be around 70-30. As mayor, if you're going to get anything done, you either need the willingness to hash things out in good faith with people who may not agree with you or the wherewithal to overpower them and get them in line behind you. Keith was comically lacking on both fronts, and because of that, a four-person majority of the council decided they would govern without him.
Speaker 3If you look at the traditional classical Democrat okay, all right, hot take here I would consider Keith Gaskin and Darren Leach to be in that traditional classical, educated Democrat class. Yes, I would almost put them in the same camp of people as, let's say, bridget Pichelle and those people that are holding signs out in front of the library. Right. And people don't know why they're doing it, but they're doing it Okay. I know why they're doing it I understand.
Speaker 3OK, I know why they're doing it. I understand how would it be perceived if that group of people went into a meeting of the Democrat Party of Lowndes County. Would they be welcome there? I mean, it's just why, wouldn't they be? I'm not so sure they would, it's just a strange dynamic happening in this town.
Speaker 3The Democrat Party of Lowndes County has been in disarray this campaign. I don't want to chase this too far, but you know, look at the infighting, look at Mickens, this and that and the other, and I just I'm seeing a faction within the letter D in the city of Columbus and take that for what you want to, but it's just not Keith ran as an independent.
Speaker 3He did. He did, I understand that, and I think he did so for good reason, but why did he have to and why did he choose to? Well, I mean that's that I thank Keith Gaskin for what he's done for the town and I wish him well, him and his family, but looking forward. Him well, him and his family, but looking forward. I think we have a great opportunity for self-awareness, for self-sacrifice, for maybe cleaning house in a way that traditional Republicans around here didn't expect, in the sense that let's clean house by elevating the conversation instead of talk about the forensic audit, which was used to be my hobby horse and used to be something I was big on board with, but it's basically a dead issue.
Speaker 3At this point we're moving beyond that and now what we're talking about is how to brand the town, how to fight the really big problems. I'll say this Mr Jones, congratulations upon your election. We better see that dadgum amphitheater finished, because that was the mainstay of your campaign.
Speaker 2And.
Jeffrey Rupp Interview: Columbus vs. Starkville
Speaker 3I am starting the stopwatch even as of today. Today in the studio, we welcome a man of many hats and someone who is no stranger to the city of Columbus and to the Golden Triangle Mr Jeffrey Rupp. Welcome in here today, sir.
Speaker 5Thank you and I appreciate you asking me to come. I've listened to your podcast and think you're doing the Lord's work.
Speaker 3Oh wow, the Lord is pleased.
Speaker 1And to flesh out Mr Rupp's bio. He was a longtime anchor and news director at WCBI Columbus mayor from 2001 to 2006, and from there he left City Hall to take a job at Mississippi State. He's Starkville's outgoing Ward 3 alderman and is currently VP of business development at GLOW.
Speaker 3My first question to you have you seen Bill Gamble in a while? How is he?
Speaker 5Yeah, so Bill and I go to lunch about once a month. I mean, he's 70-some years old now and obviously his health is getting worse as all of us get older. So I go to lunch with him once a month and it's just great because somebody always comes up to the table usually a waitress telling us to be quiet. But people always come up and they remember the days when we were together and I think it picks up his spirits, picks up mine as well. So yeah, I do see him and he's doing good. Okay.
Speaker 1Well, I want to jump in here. Just go ahead and get this out of the way. You know you've served out your term as a Ward 3 alderman. You've got a primary opponent that defeated. You. Seemed to be a pretty popular alderman over there, Very, you know, very moderate down the middle. What happened there? Did you get caught up in the rhinosphere?
Speaker 5No, I don't think so. I know Kyle and I wish him well. When the mayor decided to run as a Democrat and then a viable candidate came out, as I was knocking on doors, folks said well, my wife and I would want to support you, but we're worried about the mayor's race, and that's an important race, so we're going to split our votes. And I, you know, weeks leading up to the election, I heard that from more and more people and you start doing the math and you go, wow, this could be, this could be close. Having said that, I would have done the same thing. I think that the mayor's race is much more important than an alderman's race. But also it needs to be said that my dad was a coach, right. So in any sports you play, you go out and play with what you got under the conditions of that time right.
Speaker 5So I can't put an asterisk by losing, by saying well, the mayor's race, you know.
Speaker 1Well, if you had run as an independent instead of a Republican, do you think that you would have fared better in the general?
Speaker 5No, that ward is always going to is the most conservative ward in the city and I think it was Harry Sanders here who said I was the most liberal Republican in the state of and to me it was about representing everybody, right. But at any rate I say that After the primary I took Kyle to lunch and I said I'm not going to tell you what you should do in there, but I'm going to discuss how, the mechanics of it and any way I can support you in moving Starkville forward.
Speaker 1I'm for it of it and any way I can support you in moving starkville forward. I'm, I'm for it so well, uh, having had uh a foot in, the leadership of, uh, you know, both cities the mayor here for five years, you're, uh, you know, been an alderman over there for four um, I mean, I'm interested in discussing, you know, the difference in the, uh, the personalities of those two cities, what you saw, the difference in the mechanics of leadership in each city and what the successes and maybe the challenges are in both places.
Speaker 5Yeah, well, I'd be interested in your thoughts on it too, because I seriously, the way I see it, and it's just my opinion is that each community is unique and with Columbus you have the homes and the history that Starkville will never have, right, but also we're a river town, so there's always I've always felt there's been a little bit of an outlaw. You know, columbus has sort of always been a little bit of an outlaw and politics has always been a bit more smash mouth, right, uh, be it city or county, it's just always been a little bit more confrontational. Uh, starkville, uh, is not that way, and not outwardly anyway, you know what, uh, I would even say inwardly working with the two boards, uh, and I'll tell you why I think it's this way in a minute. Even when we disagreed and started, we got stuff done and walked out of the meetings and shaking hands and let's go get a bite to eat, right, it didn't matter what side of the political fence you were on. Rarely were the meetings that heated.
Speaker 5What I think makes Columbus different is it's a special charter, so you've got an even number of councilmen and then if it's a tie, the mayor breaks a tie. Very rarely does the mayor, the chief executive, get involved in legislative things. In my case, when I became mayor, I had three white Republicans and three black Democrats, so it didn't matter what the motion was. It was going to be a three, three tie. Right, zach, you could say I make a motion, the sky is green. It was going to be a three, three tie and land on my desk, and while that was stressful sometimes you think about the police chief and the other things we went through it gave me an opportunity to participate in shaping the legislation for Columbus, and so I thought if I'm going to be in the seat, I'll take it Right.
Speaker 5And we would talk before council meetings about OK, we've got to split this one, three, three. What side you want to be on? We'll give it to the mayor.
Speaker 3That's just awful.
Speaker 1What's the one that you remember that just aggravated you the most? I was like why couldn't this have just been 4-2?
Speaker 5Well, the police chief caused the most, I think, heartburn in the city.
Speaker 1And I think that— Read me in a little on that, because I came here after you were gone.
Speaker 5Well, I think historically Columbus tended to promote kind of along the good old boy network. I think that's fair to say and I don't mean to slight anyone. But I think you can see if you look at the history of the hirings, hearings. And then it got to the point where I thought when we had the 48-hour special, you know the CBS special on Columbus, it just made us look awful. You know, we had the Crimestoppers money being paid out for sex with an informant I thought we needed to go outside.
Speaker 5In fact we did an audit. We paid a firm from Texas to come in and audit the police department and I was told that it was going to be like every other audit that was ever done. We were going to take the findings and stick them in a drawer and I took the top 10 findings, put them on an easel on the steps of city hall, said here, here you go. And it was painful how it had gotten so bad and we gave copies to anyone who wanted them. But the recommendation was you've got to go outside the department, yeah, and so that's what we did.
Speaker 1Okay, I'm going to answer that question.
Speaker 5Well, and I'm not dodging it, but I haven't kept up with city finances. We had the same issues when I was in Columbus, in fact I'll share this with you. Something didn't make sense with our finances and one night, me and Greg Mims if you remember the COO for the city took a butter knife and broke in to our CFO's office.
Speaker 3Seriously.
Speaker 5And I wanted him with me because I wanted a witness.
Speaker 3Right. The libertarian side of me loves this stuff.
Speaker 5We found financial mismanagement. We found the evidence.
Speaker 5And the next day, when the gentleman got to work, I took Greg, we went to his office and I asked him some questions and he kept answering the same way. Pro tip if someone ever asks you a question and keeps asking you that same question, you're not answering the question truthfully or correctly, right? So I said I'm going to ask you one more time. You know what about this money and these checks? Well, I told you I did that and I said okay, open the bottom drawer of your desk.
Speaker 5And he did, and now he's staring at the evidence that showed he was right. I thought he should have gone to jail. Counsel wouldn't do it. I sent him home, locked his office, took his he unplugged his computer.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, what does the counsel have to do with whether somebody's charged with a felony? Isn't that the DA's problem or the grand jury's problem?
Speaker 5Well, it's a matter of how much they want to pursue it, and they just sort of wanted him to go right off in the sunset. Turns out he was sort of doing the taxes for some of them and you know some of those crazy things. So, at any rate, what I wanted was to get him out and get someone in, and and that's what we did. So I say that to say that finances have long been an issue with with the city, and obviously it needs to be cleaned up, but I haven't followed Columbus to tell you what they should have.
Speaker 3Well, speaking of finances and speaking of the river, I'm glad that you mentioned the river, because we've had a lot of guests on this show and I've asked them what sets a Columbus apart from Starkville or Tupelo or other places, and none of them have said the river, even though I was hoping that would be the river. Them have said the river, even though I was hoping that would be the river. And when you talk about finances, I think back to the rup administration and the treasure that you left for us is the river walk.
Speaker 3Yeah, but you've also been criticized for how much dadgum money that thing cost, but it's, it's a jewel. What are your thoughts on that 10 years later? Yeah, I will tell you this.
Speaker 5Uh, yeah, I think that was one of the ones that uh roger beat me up on pretty good. Uh, actually, my favorite roger larson line was he wrote uh who was the former police chief that uh that passed away recently played guitar joseph St John.
Speaker 3Yeah, Joseph St John.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 5Joseph, st John Rest his soul. But Roger wrote in the packet one day that that guy, the difference between me and him was that guy was a better chief than he was guitar player and I was a better guitar player than I was mayor. That was Roger's favorite, yeah. But I will tell you this what you do to make your community a place where people want to live matters, and I know that particularly older folks tend to say, you know, just cut taxes and pick up the trash and that's enough. It's not enough. We built those ball fields over in Starkville and it has the impact it has had on the community has been crazy. We got 70 teams coming in this weekend. We had 70 teams last weekend. Our sales tax numbers are going crazy. We're building some hotels, but it's our community that goes and uses those fields, so those things matter. And so the Riverwalk, I think, absolutely has been a huge plus for Columbus, and it wasn't like Jeffrey did it, it was the administration and the momentum and all the folks involved at the time made that happen.
Speaker 3Have you noticed that Columbus tends to be a parrot sometimes of what Starkville does, even though it may be something that's not particularly our interest or our strong suit? You know, I'm saying this because we had Bill Strauss at the forum about a week ago and he said that you know, there's kids out there that are interested in the arts and things that are not sports related, and yet we build a lot of ball fields around here. What say you?
Speaker 5Well, I would say, in the case of Starkville, if you look, we've got Cornerstone Park, which has been, but we caught a lot of flack for that and it was started before I got on the board. Uh, that mayor spruill, as she is want to do, was very adamant in pushing that and she was 100 correct. If you go over and look at mckee park in columbia, we are completely doing our basically family park. It is going to be stunning and but it goes back to the riverwalk question. Uh, those things matter. Now I drive past between Starkville and Columbus.
Speaker 3Bank, first Fields.
Speaker 5Yeah, and I don't know the backstory on that, but I honestly did when I first drove past it I kind of went hmm but I don't know the back story, so there could be a great reason to have that those ball fields.
Speaker 1When you've got Probst Park essentially trying to do the same thing there with their investments. Now I think that bank first yards and Probst Park put together still isn't going to quite be the same size as Cornerstone.
Speaker 5Yeah, and look, one thing I said before we started is I don't want to, you know, question other political leaders, because I honestly don't know the back story. I can tell you, though in Columbus the mayor decided very proactively a year and a half ago to build to 12 new pickleball courts.
Speaker 3I've heard that pickleball is for senior citizens.
Speaker 1That's what Jeffrey takes. Offense to that that I think that he's semi-professional no I even I am a senior citizen you're looking quite presidential today
Speaker 5the mississippi state university pickleball team went to nationals on any given night. Now, uh, there are over 100 people playing pickleball in Starkville. Some of them come from I think Randy Robles come from Columbus, but also three days a week Monday, wednesday and Friday in the mornings you'll see 30 or 40 seniors out there. And what's good about that? The exercise is fine, but they're also bringing some you know, watermel, watermelon, some banana bread and they're socializing. I think that's really healthy for a community and I think there is a lot of value in that, and I think Columbus will build.
Speaker 5Aren't they building some pickleball courts?
Speaker 1Oh yeah. Well, I want to change gears a little bit to something that did or I guess didn't happen during your administration. We had Joe Higgins on here a couple of months ago now.
Speaker 5I think yeah, I listened to that and well, I mean.
Economic Development and Political Leadership Insights
Speaker 1so, yeah, I think you know where this question is going. He talked about how and this was going to be during your administration. The city had an opportunity to invest $3.3 million a drop in the bucket today compared to what's been done out there. $3.3 million for a drop in the bucket today compared to what's been done out there. $3.3 million for a 40% stake in the first mega site and y'all didn't do it and, of course, he was critical of that decision. I want to hear your side of that and why that didn't happen and if you would do it different if you had it to do again.
Speaker 5Well, first of all, I call Joe Max the Tasmanian devil of economic development. I mean, you know, I was on the board that hired him on the search committee, and nobody does it like he does it. He is always, though. It's his job to push the deal Right. He is always, though it's his job to push the deal right. I don't think Columbus was necessarily in that position at that time with a history of unproven, of not great economic development results right. So there was.
Speaker 1So this is going to be 2004, right, 2003, 2004.
Speaker 5We did not have the clarity of hindsight that you have now. In fact, there was a time when they first developed the Golden Triangle Airport Industrial Park where Starkville, west Point, all could have participated and they didn't. So Lowndes County paid the freight on all that and they're getting reaping the rewards. I mean, lowndes County is fairly well off and kudos to them.
Speaker 1You said y'all didn't have the clarity of the success rate that you do in hindsight now. But what were those conversations, I guess, between Joe Max and you at the time? And I mean, did you struggle with it at all? Was it a situation where y'all just didn't have the 3.3 million, or or what were the? What were the conversations that led to? Well, should we or shouldn't we? And this is where we're, this is where we're landing.
Speaker 5So you're asking me a conversation from 20 years ago when I don't remember what I had for breakfast. But I would say that there was some skepticism on the board and keep in mind my board was fairly old they're like my age now so I think they tended to be a little more fiscally conservative. We obviously were having some financial issues of our own. A little more fiscally conservative, we obviously were having some financial issues of our own, so I don't blame them for being a little gun.
Speaker 1shy on that Okay.
Speaker 5But were you, I think I would probably have been a little more willing to try just about anything, I mean, be it the river walk and some other things we did in Columbus. At the time I was outdoor dining. One of our councilmen was against. It was quoted in the Clarion Ledger saying that it was going to hurt the concrete.
Speaker 5I'm not kidding that was a quote in the Clarion Ledger and as a mayor I'm getting calls from all over the state. People just laughing, other mayors going yeah, what kind of concrete do you use up there? And in Starkville right now they're getting ready to completely redo Main Street. Push the streets in and expand the sidewalks so folks can have can eat outside and enjoy outdoor dining. Can eat outside and enjoy outdoor dining.
Speaker 1Looking at Columbus now driving through visiting you know, eating with Mr Gamble when you're here are there things when you look around and you're like man. I'm glad we did that besides the Riverwalk. And then there are other things like God.
Speaker 5I wish we'd have done something about that. When I had the chance uh I I'm pleased with uh, you know, we went through round of brack base closure when I was mayor and I was part of that team and I was pleased that we put up the first, you know, the the first jet static display and was told by the department of transportation that it would never happen. The highway commissioner at that time we called him highway commissioners, not transportation commissioners said it would happen over his dead body and there was nothing that really, if you were in downtown columbus that really let you know. We were a base community and one of the criteria, one of the boxes, uh, that the brack folks were looking at, was, you know, some tangible evidence, right? So I wanted to get a static display up this was before they had the one at the base even, right, and I didn't want to use taxpayer money. So I got the concrete donated, I got the steel donated and then I needed to get a jet and then the Air Force wanted me to go out to the boneyard in New Mexico or Arizona and truck one back and that was going to cost tons of money and Fogelsong General Fogelsong was at the Pentagon at the time and used to check in because he loved Columbus so much.
Speaker 5And he'd say you know, hey, mayor, what's going on? I said, man, I'm trying to put up the static display and the Air Force are telling me I got to go out west to get a jet. He said I'll call you back. He called me back that afternoon. It's true, called me back that afternoon. He said go, pick one out, go out to the base and pick one out, it's great. So we got a T-36.
Speaker 5And we went out at dawn and we shut down Highway 45. I remember the sheriff's office wasn't crazy about that. It was at dawn. We wanted to move it before rush hour and Steve Schmidt was the wing commander and he and I had four-wheelers and they lifted the jet over the gate of the base, put it on the back of the flatbed and slowly drove it down Highway 45.
Speaker 5And we're buzzing along in our four-wheelers and the thing that just blew me away was that, uh, and surprised me, uh, people line the highway with flags, right, wow, okay, that was so cool. It was so cool and the sun's coming up and you get a lot of crap with the job, that it's days like that that make you feel like it's worth it. So we get down there and they take the jet and they mount it on the stand and the wing commander when they introduced the T-36, was McLeod General McLeod, that sounds right, colonel McLeod and he I think he had dementia at the time. But we invited him out and I put him up in a lift and with like a bottle of champagne or something, let him christen the plane, you know and it brought back you could see the light come on right and it brought back memories of when he was out at the base and with that jet and man that's the good stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1What about the other side of? That. The stuff that you look around and you're like God, we had that and we didn't get it, or I wish that I would have approached that different.
Speaker 5There are economic development opportunities that you wish that you could have gotten. That didn't pan out and you wonder if you could have done something differently. One in particular that also has another point to it that's important on why size matters point to it. That's important on why uh, why size matter, why, why when I, before I left columbus, I wanted to annex bent tree plantation and a few other spots, uh, when I was in the mayor's office I got a call one day from a uh, a tier three automotive supplier and he said you know, mayor, I'm a tier three automotive supplier.
Speaker 5I want to to be between Mercedes, nissan and Toyota and I thought the Golden Triangle might be a good spot. He said I'm calling you first. And I said why are you calling me first? He said because you're the biggest dot on the map. So I think that size matters in economic development. For whatever reason he didn't choose to come here, but the fact that he called me first in Columbus, I really wish the city had preserved that Before I left. I would have liked to have grown the city to sort of protect that, because Starkville is the biggest city in the Golden Triangle now and I don't think there's any turning back. Starkville has room to grow. It's got the economic engine of the university.
Speaker 1So Well, you've kind of gone into the private sector pretty hard now. What is? What is the political future for Jeffrey Rupp? And is there a situation where I saw Jeff Turnage comment on your Facebook post when you were congratulating Kyle after the primary? He said come on back here and run for something over here again? What is the political future for Jeffrey?
Speaker 5Rupp Zero, so I turned 65 last month.
Speaker 1Did you?
Speaker 5really Thanks. Thanks for the shock in your voice. You need to talk more. I turned 65 last month.
Speaker 4Did you really Well thanks. Thanks for the shock in your voice. Really you need to talk more, david.
Speaker 5Yeah, I've retired from the university but I still teach a couple classes a semester. I've gone to work for one of my startups, a Columbus kid, hagen Walker, at Glow. I've got one daughter out of the house, another one almost out of the house. I'm in a pretty good spot right now. I'm still able to play pickleball and I still play music. I was over here at Tampico Bay a couple of weeks ago and just had a ball with Carlos and Roberto. So I'm done and I'm not sure I have a political home anymore. I think it's become so polarized that I don't know how I could. I don't know what party I could ever be a part of anymore.
Speaker 3Well, I think that polarization is just absolutely regretful, particularly on the local level, where it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 3It doesn't matter, and it's. It's just not necessary. It's, it's uncalled for and, um boy, what? What all can you say about it? I think a lot of it has to do with people feeling the need to take credit for something, and I think, as a town, we will do much better if we just push ideas, whether they're our own or someone else's, just to make it happen, regardless of whose name on it. I think that's the path forward.
Speaker 3And you mentioned the jet and you mentioned these other things, the Riverwalk. These are brands to our town and I'm really excited about the new city council in the sense that I think Columbus will have the opportunity to rebrand itself. And, to your credit, many, many years ago I remember this we had the 98 US Women's Open. Ok, that was in West Point and some big shot celebrity got on TV and said you know, the world's most prestigious golf event I have found is in the middle of a cow field. And you got on the air and you reminded that lady that, hey, a cow field is not the only place to find cow piles.
Speaker 5Well, let me, let me let me tweak that a little bit bit. So it was an editorial that was written by usa today and the lady said it was. It was indeed in a, in a cow pasture, and I held up, went on the air and held up the paper and said this just proves a cow pasture is not the only place to find cow manure. Yes, that was uh well, that was an easy. That's almost like a homer thing, right?
Speaker 3but but the thing is, we need to speak good things into our town and we need to stand up for our town and fight for positivity in ways like that. And I mean, it's you remember that many years ago?
Speaker 5I can't believe you. Why are you clear that memory? You could use that space for something else.
Speaker 3Well see, their history hinges on very small decisions, and we have so much negativity being on social media or wherever, and I think part of the reason that Columbus is not in a, shall we say, golden age right now are these many, many small decisions that embarrass potential investors, make them not want to come here or just put a dark cloud on the town by using words that just didn't need to come out of someone's mouth. So thank you for coming on the show today.
Speaker 5That's it.
Speaker 1Yeah, anything you want to add.
Speaker 5Well, I would say to your point quickly that if you're in a leadership role actually even if you're not, but particularly if you're in a leadership role the real challenge, the threading the needle, is to understand and be honest about your challenges and problems, but lead from a position of positivity, right, because people are going to take their cues from you and if they're looking at you and you're up there fussing at everybody and that's going to rub off on them, right, so you've got to be strong but positive. I think Mayor Sproul is a good example of a starkle.
Speaker 5But, anyway, guys, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1Thanks for coming on.
Final Thoughts and Listener Feedback
Speaker 5Best wishes to all the new elected officials in the Golden Triangle. Good luck.
Speaker 3And that will do it for today. Let's dig into the mailbox. We have some responses this week. Pink Hair Lady says and I assume this is in reference to our episode about means of reconciling race relations in the city of Columbus. She says quote said by a white man speaking of me with all the cards in his favor. Next up, he will claim women play the misogyny card too often and just need to get over the injustices. I thank you for listening. Jason Hansen says I believe the entire city council wants to see Columbus prosper and Jason Spears is the guy that can show them how to bring it into reality. We have an anonymous person to say here the new council is going to represent a huge step forward in terms of PR. I think we will see much less embarrassment from the council, which will be good for business.
Speaker 3And Judah Wilson Bennett asks basically where did the 1,482 voters from the 2021 election go 1,482 voters from the 2021 election go? Why is there such a significant drop in voter turnout In just four years? Our population declined by only 2%. So what is the cause? Why did so many people sit this one out? Well, I hope that our episode today at least helped to answer that question and we thank you for listening and we encourage you to stay involved in your community and go vote. Be sure to subscribe, share and rate and send us your comments. We would love to hear from you Tips at cdispatchcom. You can also follow me on Facebook or X at the Chisholm double zero. Tag my name and if it's public, I might just read your stuff here on the show signing out until next week from catfish alio studios in historic downtown columbus. Your host has been zach player and I am david chisholm. Until next time. Y'all, keep it friendly, we will keep it real.
Speaker 2Opinions expressed on this show are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the Commercial Dispatch.
