Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
In Studio Showdown: Kabir Karriem v Pierre Beard for District 41
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When incumbent State Representative Kabir Karriem and challenger Pierre Beard stepped into our studio, we knew we were in for an enlightening conversation—what we got was political theater at its most raw and revealing. Their face-off for Mississippi House District 41 quickly evolved from policy discussion to personal confrontation, giving voters an unfiltered look at both candidates.
The special election, triggered by redistricting efforts to increase Black representation in the state legislature, has both candidates presenting vastly different visions for District 41. Representative Karriem leans heavily on his experience and established relationships in Jackson, positioning himself as the seasoned legislator with the connections needed to deliver results. Beard, fresh from a council loss, counters with a message of change and accessibility, repeatedly questioning Karriem's visibility and effectiveness despite his years in office.
The debate revealed significant agreement on keeping the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science (MSMS) in Columbus, with both recognizing its vital importance to the local economy and the Mississippi University for Women. However, they diverged sharply on priorities like Beard's proposed public transportation system, which Karriem dismissed as impractical and symptomatic of legislative inexperience.
Most surprising was the unexpected detour into personal territory, with both men trading accusations about past arrests and behavior. This raw exchange highlighted the deeply personal nature of local politics and gave voters insight into how each candidate handles conflict—an important consideration for a Democrat representing district interests in a Republican-dominated legislature where relationship-building is essential.
Whether you're looking for experienced leadership or fresh energy, this debate offers crucial insights into the candidates vying to represent District 41.
Zack and David also introduce 3 Things to Know, a new feature that gives brief updates on the week's top headlines.
Introduction to Between the Headlines
Speaker 1From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity and our reporting will always reflect that. And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 4And now between the headlines. Players choose your fighter In the studio today. To my left is Mr Kabir Kareem and to my right is Mr Pierre Beard. It might get hot in here. Also, we'll have the talk about mold madness in regards to the fire stations tearing down the walls. What's going on with all that drama and a few of the week's headlines?
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Meet the Candidates: Kareem and Beard
Speaker 4This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, the locally owned bank that makes decisions right here at home, by people who understand the needs of our community. That means local decisions, local support and folks who care if your kid made the team At Bank First. We're not just bankers, we're neighbors and friends. Whether you're buying a home or starting a business or just need someone to explain what APR actually means, we're here right down the street. Stop by your BankFirst branch or visit BankFirstFScom to learn more. Bankfirst is a member FDIC and Equal Housing Lender Bank NMLS 454063. We are pleased to have in the studio today the third-time incumbent and representative from Mississippi House District 41, the Honorable Kabir Kareem, and across from him sits his challenger, the former councilman and ward four, that is, mr Pierre Beard. Welcome to both of you, glad you're both here today. This is not your first rodeo in the studio, mr Beard. You've taken some tough questioning before and I think we may have more of the same today.
Speaker 5I'm ready, as always, all right.
Speaker 1I'll start with Councilman Kareem here to kind of explain the mechanics to us. How did we get here in this special election?
Speaker 6Well, first of all, thank you for having me on the show, not councilman, state representative.
Speaker 1I'm sorry, state representative, you've been Ward 5 councilman.
Speaker 6I'm so used to covering the city that it just comes out of my mouth no worries, no worries, but look, as you know, african Americans are underserved in the state, at the state capitol, as far as representation. So we joined in with a lawsuit with NAACP, the ACLU, and they challenged the legislative districts. And because of their challenge, a special session was called to create another minority district in Chickasaw County and because of that, we had to take people from Lee County, clay County as well as Lowndes County to create House District 22. And as a result, I'm sitting before you all with a challenger, because we wanted more Black representation in the state of Mississippi.
Speaker 1How have the lines changed in 41? Who's in 41? That wasn't before.
Speaker 6Just this week people have started receiving their voter registration cards and a lot of changes have taken place in 41. Nothing real drastic. A lot of whole precincts have become half precincts and Townsend Park, which was a really big precinct, is now a very small precinct. Most of that is in House District 36 in Clay County, so the map has changed drastically.
Speaker 4Okay, does this midterm challenge come to a bit of a chagrin to you, or do you welcome it? I mean, what's your general attitude about this?
Speaker 6Well, you know, look, everybody has a right to run. I don't know who paid him to get in this race or why he's trying to do after he lost his council seat, but he has a right to challenge the seat. But it is what it is. I mean, we're going to do what we have to do and continue to represent the people of House District 41 until they tell me otherwise.
Speaker 1Well, I want to jump in here with Mr Beard, especially immediately followinga loss in a council race where you were the incumbent. Why jump straight into a house race with an incumbent?
Speaker 5This was always the plan. I knew about the redistricting a year ago I mean the end part of my campaigning for Ward 4 was more so with the release of my platform for District 41 representative. The same key issues that I brought up were the same issues that I'm fighting for for our district. As far as someone paying me, we're not even going to speak on that. We're not going to throw shots for shots.
Speaker 4What's the going rate?
Speaker 5That's what I want to know.
Speaker 1David ran for office once. I don't know I don't. David ran for office once.
Speaker 5I don't know if anybody paid him to do I missed out I missed out on that memo too, you know, but hey, um, this has always been an aspiration of mine to take my professional political level, political profession to the next level and talking really about the timing of it.
Speaker 1I mean, do you think that there's a little bit of bruised upness with? I just got out of one that I didn't win and now I'm jumping into a bigger ring immediately?
Speaker 5there's, there's. There's nothing negative that can be said about that. I mean, it's all in god's plan, it's all in god. And I mean, hey, there's always been an aspiration of mine, whether it was right after this or whether it was two, three, four or five years from now, but it was something that was going to happen. I mean, everybody deserves some type of accountability on all levels to get some type of information from people. You know we rarely hear from these people. You know we rarely hear from these people. So if you want to call a spade a spade, we rarely hear from these people. We rarely get information from the state level, regardless of anything that's pertaining to Columbus. All of the, all of the information that we have getting from the state level comes from Representative McLean and Senator Younger. That's the only two people that I see that are actively working in this in Lyons County in Columbus, actively working for this district. So I mean that I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to say it without saying it, but where have you been?
Speaker 1well, uh, mr Kareem, I want to give you.
Speaker 5I mean I can understand all the accolades that's been received, the the lies and his replies.
Speaker 6Let's back up. Did you know that the night before qualifying he texts one of my colleagues in the delegation that I will not say and asks where does the House district lines are drawn? And I got and I saw the text and, if you remember, after he lost he said he was going to run against Leroy Brooks seat for issue five.
Speaker 1You did say that.
The Redistricting Battle and Special Election
Speaker 6And then, well, hold up, hold up, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's. Put the lies in the replies now. And then he calls me the day of qualifying and say Mr Kareem, I see that there's a special election in House District 41, and I don't know whether or not you're running or not, but I'm running and I need to turn my paperwork in to you. They told me I need to turn my paperwork in to you since I'm running for House District 41. I said no, sir. I said you turned it in to Chairman Shaq Taylor down in Jackson, and he hung up the phone so look, I could have been a butt and said yeah, bring me your paperwork and your money. And then called him back at 4 o'clock and said you know what? You need to turn that in down at Jackson. But I didn't do that. I gave him direction and that just shows the lack of experience he has even beginning to even run for this office.
Speaker 5So let me jump in.
Speaker 6I'm not through. Thank you, just hold up. So my point is I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about why he's running. And he has a right to run. Let me be clear Even though it's a special election, he has a right to challenge this, to challenge me in the District 41 race. But I don't believe, and I don't believe, that the voters believe, that his motives are clear, are genuine and as far as keeping the people informed, I'm always on social media talking about what's going on. Going on.
Speaker 6I've been given a Mother's Day luncheon where he just participated in at my last Mother's Day luncheon eating up the catfish, eating up all the food from the mothers, cutting line, dancing, and he was there. Well, what's wrong with that? Nothing, nothing If you weren't going to run against the person who was going to do it. But there's nothing wrong with that, but he did it. So my point is I don't think that it was something that was in his plan. I think it's something that just came up June 9th or 8th, whatever day it was for qualifying.
Speaker 1Okay, and Mr Brady, before you respond, I want you to respond. A point that he brought up is a fair and accurate point. You were on Facebook immediately after that council race stating your intent to run against Leroy Brooks for county supervisor.
Speaker 5All right, so let's go back. This is a first of all. Like I say, I appreciate you guys for having this. This is a perfect platform to get your message across. I appreciate you guys for having this. This is a perfect platform to get your message across, and I don't want to spend my time arguing back and forth with somebody about basically nothingness. But to go to the text message, I did definitely send a text message to one of his colleagues and the text message said hey, name Councilman Beard here. Do you know where I can find a copy of the new redistricting map for District 41? That's the conversation that I had. So whatever he said they had, that is definitely not true. You want to see it? There it is. That's what I said. That's what I said. Well, just so as far as in the Well.
Speaker 4That's a little different than him asking where the line was.
Speaker 5Exactly. You said where's the line? He said I'd like, because that's what you're supposed to do. Jackson told me to get with the city's Democratic Party to get the information from them. I called back to Jackson. I said well, the person that's over the Democratic Party would be the person that I'm running against, so call them. So I called him and I asked about it, because that's what the people in Jackson instructed me to do. Come to find out that all of the stuff the person that was giving me the information did not have the correct information. So I ended up talking to the head person, who was on a conference in Biloxi, who then told me the process that I needed to do, and then that's how the process got done All right?
Speaker 1Well, going back to clear that, okay. So going back to the question of you originally said that you were going to run against Leroy for county supervisor. You pivoted to District 41. What was that process?
Speaker 5Both of them were. Both of them were, and will still be, an aspiration of mine. This one came before the deadline. Like I say, there was no public talk about it, there was no information released about it and the day that the deadline that I found out about the deadline was on a Monday and I had to rush and get all of that in. So I did not know. Like I stated before, I knew that a special election was coming, but I did not know that the deadline was as soon as it was. So that's how this came before running against Leroy Brooks, of which he stated that he won't even be running again, but that will be.
Speaker 5I mean, all of these people need to be have somebody running against them. Somebody needs to run every single time. I know the people that I don't even name on your, on your platform. They always state that people need to have somebody running against them. My last colleagues always stated people need to be have somebody running against them to hold them accountable. So we can see what have you done? So we can hear, what are you planning on doing? There's a list of things that I want to do for the city of Columbus a public transportation system.
Speaker 1Well, can I? Can I stop you, because that was going to be my next question for you. One of the things that you have really been pounding in your campaign is this public transportation system in Columbus. One, what does that look like in? What does that look like practically? And two, how does a state representative bring that to fruition?
Speaker 5There's, if you, some of the things on my platform are some simple things that can already have been done. You can go to the MDOT website right now, at this date, and MDOT will give you a public transportation survey. All you have to do is apply for it. There are senators in the legislature that has used this program and have gotten public transportation systems in their district. There are simple things that all we have to do is apply for district. There's simple things that all we have to do is apply for and we can't. We don't have any anybody fighting with the same type of the same type of things that our city needs at a state level. A public transportation service looks like we can't deny anybody food, we can't deny anybody education and we can't deny anybody employment.
Speaker 1I mean, is it buses, is it trains?
Speaker 5Buses, trains, whatever that transit system says that the city needs. Whenever we apply for it or whoever apply for it, it's basically just getting somebody to apply for it and fight for it, because that's something that's needed here.
Speaker 1Well in your mind, representative Kareem. How viable is that idea?
Speaker 6Again the inexperience shows of the making and the working of the legislature. If I can take you back, when I was on the city council, it was a company that wanted to put a bus line here. When he was a city councilman he had the power to create ordinances and create a mechanism. I've never one time heard anybody from the city say they wanted a bus line or any kind of transit system. We've even tried to put not Greyhound but some mega bus or something so people can have a way to travel, but nobody has ever tried to contact or get with the delegation to ask about a transit system. This is just something.
Speaker 1Would it?
Speaker 6work. Look, I'm not denying that people need transportation, but the way of going about doing it starts at the city level. What are the needs of the city of Columbus? Doing it starts at the city level. What are the needs of the city of Columbus when Mr Beard was a city councilman he never talked about a transit system.
Speaker 1I don't know if that's entirely true.
Speaker 6Well, let me rephrase it, Mr Beard, it was never brought to our delegation as a need of the city, the city. We always meet with people.
Speaker 1The mayor, Joe Max Higgins, CVB, Port Authority every year, before we get ready to go to the session, to find out the needs of the city, and that wasn't ever listed as a priority.
Speaker 6That was never listed as a priority. I don't know, maybe he knows something that I don't know but the legislature is not the first stop for a transit system in a city or town, because monies have to be found to do something like that?
Speaker 4What about between Biloxi Gulfport, going from Mobile all the way to New Orleans? Was that a state deal?
Speaker 6That you're talking about the Amtrak the. Amtrak.
Speaker 6Yeah, that that is something that I'm sure that they put a plan together to have that, that system from Amtrak, and it depends also on the population too. Yeah, there's been some talk about opening up the other side of the highway. Now that's a conversation where it's closed across the river because it's one way in, one way out. That's been a conversation. How do we tackle it? Do we put a toll roll over on that side? It's going to cost upwards in the millions of dollars to open that back up. That has been a conversation about highways and bridges. There's been a conversation of having a superhighway from North Mississippi all the way to the coast.
Speaker 4Do I get to drive faster than 70?
Speaker 6It might be a little, you might have a little speed.
Speaker 1OK.
Speaker 6You already are driving faster than 70. But my point is you just can't arbitrarily pull stuff out of the air, and it takes teamwork and you have to have a relationship not only with your delegation but with other legislators to get things accomplished, particularly for your district as well as your county.
Speaker 1Well, one thing you talked about teamwork and cooperation and those types of things and those types of things. One of the bigger issues going on right now in Columbus is the future of MSMS, where it's going to be and how that affects the future of the W One. I want to start with you, representative. You've been on the record in support of the W staying as it is and open, and MSMS staying here is a part of that. Staying as it is and open and MSMS staying here as a part of that. With what's going on the State Board of Education recommendation to move MSMS, what I mean, what is the threat here to the W to Columbus and what can you do as a representative? What have you done as a representative to advocate for keeping it here? What can be successful in keeping everything like it is here?
Speaker 6Right now it's about seniority, which I am the senior man in our Lyons County delegation. On the House side, it's about fighting, speaking truth to power, with other legislators who need to understand the dynamics of really what's going on, because it's really bigger than the W and MS-MS, because if you remove MS-MS to help Starfield build their high school, that puts a gap in the W and if the W fails, that means or they merge or get rid of the W. That means and one of my concerns is that one of our HBCUs of the state is going to be either closed or merged with another school. So it's really bigger than MS, ms and MUW I'm concerned about. They've been requesting money at MSMS for years. I've been advocating for that. We've even brought the Speaker of the House in to look at the conditions of MSMS, that they're needing funds.
Speaker 6We brought other legislators in and I think the argument needs to be stated that you don't need your tax dollars from the Gulf Coast to help build a high school over in start for Mississippi and I think it's disingenuous for my colleagues and friends over there to be pushing this. And I just want to state that this same situation happened with the Mississippi School of Arts in Brookhaven. They tried to take that Matter of fact. It was us who tried to bring it up here to the W and they fought like hell to make sure that it stayed in Brookhaven. So we have to do the same. I think we have a very good, strong delegation. I think we all work good together when it comes for the benefit of Columbus and Lyons County.
Speaker 1And I think that we're going to continue to do that as we proceed. Councilman Beard, the W in the MSMS situation has been something you've talked about as well, if you're elected state representative, what are you doing to try to keep MSMS here and get it funded?
Speaker 5The first thing I would do. I would like to say that moving MSMS off of MUW campus would be a horrible thing done for the taxes for the city of Columbus, the taxes for the city of Columbus. Msms, MUW has the largest salary. I'm reading my notes. I'm sorry. Msms should remain on MUW campus. This is crucial to District 41. Such a move is a waste of taxpayers' dollars, an extreme culture shock for high school students and a hit to MUW, One of the largest employers in District 41. So I support the current initiative that they have in place. This fight with MSMS has been going on for a while and the city actually took charge in it. Mayor Gaskin did, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 5He took the first leadership charge into keeping talking about it and the Board of Supervisors, president, tripp and Tripp did, and then we got the city and the county, now the MUW Foundation that I have went and purchased a PR firm, I could say, to go down and lobby and talk to the legislators down there about why MSMS should stay over here. I was accepted to MSMS my junior year in high school but I chose not to go because I felt like that was a school for nerds and I guess I was a nerd back then.
Speaker 4Come on man. You got the glasses and everything.
Speaker 5Msms should stay here, Moving that school anywhere and Jeff Ternes just did a podcast with you guys talking about the importance of why MSMS a very respected lawyer in the state of Mississippi, especially in our area MSMS should stay right here where it is. Msms has been underfunded and we are still producing the most elite students out of that school. So imagine if MDE got on board with properly funding this school. Imagine if we had all of our legislators actively fighting for this school, putting out the facts, putting out the information. You can't argue facts. You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face. And these are facts that this is the number one elite school that are putting out elite scholars in the United States of America being under budgeted and still overperforming. So why would you take something that's being underfunded and overperforming to go and build 125, help build a hundred and twenty five million dollar school?
Speaker 1Well, I mean, and both of you have brought out, you know, the talking points, the obvious ones for Columbus, for advocating for keeping it here, how do you make that stick? How do you make that stick with people who may not care Keep?
Speaker 5putting it at the door. Keep putting it at the door. Somebody cares because they're trying to move it. So whoever's trying to move it, that's the people that needs to be being talked to. But you know there's a difference between me and everybody else. I don't owe nobody, so I can go and talk to whoever I want to talk to. Whether they listen or whether they don't listen, that's up to them. But at the end of the day, I know that these issues have came across and I have told you that this is what's going on. This is why this needs to happen. We are the first universe, muw, the first universe to start accepting women. All of this stuff is historic, so you can go at it from a historical perspective. All of these issues have not been being fought for and they need to be being fought for.
Speaker 1How do you get them to care? How do you get the opposition or the people who are ambivalent to this or just apathetic entirely, to care about where MSMS goes?
Speaker 6First of all, you have to have boots on the ground. You know, I commend former Mayor Gaskin and Board President Supervisor Tripp Harrison, but we're the ones giving them the information, we're the ones that told them that they're on the chopping block. See, that's what I'm saying Inexperience and not knowing.
Speaker 5That has nothing to do with inexperience. That has something to do with you letting the people that represent us know.
Speaker 6Let's give them a space to talk, because we're not here to throw shots.
Speaker 5We're here to put information out.
Speaker 6Because here's the deal All the information that Mayor Gaskin and Board President Tripp Harrison got, I gave it to them, the delegation. It was like a hidden secret that they weren't going to take it over.
Speaker 4Well, the media is not telling us what's going on down there.
Speaker 6Well, but here's the deal.
Speaker 5And you gave it to somebody behind closed doors Down there.
Speaker 4That's correct, and he gave it to somebody behind closed doors.
Speaker 6That's correct. But that's why he was so informed. And they went to action, because they knew it was an undercurrent plan to move the.
Speaker 5MSNBC, so why didn't you step out with them?
Speaker 6So here is the deal that information is important and to answer your question, to bag it up, you have to have relationships, you have to put it where the goats can get it. Nobody wants to spend their tax dollars in their respective community to build another school, to help somebody else build another high school 300 miles away from now. That's, that's. That's an argument that I think will buy. People will buy. That's a winnable argument, Right, it is.
Speaker 4OK, and you mentioned relationships. Relationships in the case of whatever bill comes up is going to have to be made with Republicans, because they're the ones in charge right now.
Speaker 4Mr Beard, do you think you can talk to the Republicans down there and derail that train, because I'm worried about it. It's headed that direction. Speaker White has spoken about a big, bold and uncomfortable education bill and we don't know what might be in it. It could have school consolidation, it could have school choice and I expect it's possible that somebody will put in the MSMS thing in this big bill. That's going to be oh so wonderful and attractive to Republicans and that's how they squeeze it in there. Either one of you, how can you stop that?
Speaker 5I have no problem with building relationships with anybody. You're a Republican and me and you have a great relationship, talking terms. I've had Republicans from the House and Senate calling my phone every other day talking to me about different things that are going on down there in Jackson. I'm easily to get along with. Like I say, I'm not going in. Everybody was a rookie in everything that they've ever tried to do. Everything is a learning curve, but you have to have the power, the willingness to want to learn, the willingness to want to go in and mingle with people and get as much information as you got, not trying to make a name for yourself on all these major platforms of this and this and that, but actually doing the job and working for the people and the people. I was an independent for my whole campaign. For being a councilman I ran independent and the reason why I ran independent was because of the way that the certain parties were operating within Columbus.
Speaker 6That's why I'm the real Democrat in the race.
Speaker 4Does that make you an insider?
Speaker 6That makes I was voted one of the top 50 Democrats in the whole state.
Speaker 5And there we go talking about personal stuff, but we're talking about issues that are plaguing ours.
Speaker 6What have you done with the accolades, though, if you have these high accolades, those accolades put you in those spaces where you build those relationships, because you earn the respect of your peers. The respect of your peers go a long way. That's why, when he reached out to a Republican to ask about District 41, they immediately alerted me about what was going on, because we have.
Speaker 5That's why they call you Wednesday.
Speaker 6They have a good, we have good relationships. You know, and you can't look, you can't push and pull at the same time. You know everybody understands that MSMS is a huge deal and it was a debacle with the name change. See, it just didn't start with MSMS. It's been going on for the last two or three sessions about MUW and that's why I'm so concerned that if something was to happen to the W, which I support, that they're going to start merging and closing one or two of our HBCUs.
Speaker 1Like Valley over in Well, I don't know which one but I know Valley and Delta State are underperforming Well.
Public Transportation and Economic Priorities
Speaker 6I just saw a report where Delta State was one of the top five schools in the state, along with Alcorn. So I don't know what will happen, but it opens up the door for anything and if you know anything about the legislature, what starts out as a beautiful Clydesdale will end up as a goat by the end of the session.
Speaker 4Because of poison pills like the MSMS or rooting.
Speaker 1I want to broaden David's question and give you both a chance to answer it. I'm going to give you last bat on it because you are the incumbent. But starting with Pierre, the Democratic Party generally in the Mississippi legislature, you know, and the Black Caucus those are minority voices that you know. Republicans show up and they get things across the line because there's simply more of them.
Speaker 5Exactly.
Speaker 1So you know how would you, as a representative I guess a member of the Black Caucus as well, democrat make the voice of the Black Caucus, make the voice of the Democrats more viable and more participatory in legislation that actually gets across the line?
Speaker 5Because, simple thing, all of these people make up the entire body. You got Republicans, you got Democrats. Everybody make up the entire body. And to get back to how will I get along with Republicans, or however that works, that's easy. That's easy. One of the things that we have facing our area because this is all about District 41, is getting more and helping our district is we have an amphitheater named after a Republican Senator, terry Brown. The amphitheater is sitting incomplete.
Speaker 4How many days does our mayor have left to complete that December 31st?
Speaker 5And that is something that can be possible. We have a Republican that gave us money that helped fight for our district Dana McLean. She helped fight for the million dollars that the state did that we got from the state to help complete the amphitheater dollars that the state did that we got from the state to help complete the amphitheater. But these are things that a Democratic led city council spoke with Republicans in Jackson to help get funding to complete something that's named after a Republican. How many Republicans based change the narrative, change the subject, change the direction of how the conversation is flowing. We have an amphitheater that quote unquote was a lot of taxpayer dollars was wasted, whatever side of the field people say that about, but at the end of the day, it's named after a Republican. And do the Republican Party want to have something named after somebody that was so valuable in their party, sitting so stagnant in a district that needs the help to complete it? Whether or not we got the funds, we got the funds now to complete it.
Speaker 5The city is sitting in a major spot. Just to bring that up, when I first became a councilman we were negative $800,000 in debt. We are sitting at a $10, $12, $13 million surplus now after I came. So working with money, working with numbers, working with things like that is something that I'm very familiar with. So let's never get that wrong. So let's never get the inexperience or different things like that, because I have a whole record for six years that I can put down on anybody's table at anybody's forefront, because getting along with anybody is what I always try to do. I don't try to make a name for myself, because I already have a name for myself. Yes, you do, and you do too.
Speaker 5Yes, you do you most definitely have a name. But, like I stated, this is not what I'm here for. I'm here to get my platform across. I'm here to get my platform across and let the citizens of District 41 know that they have somebody that's not going to keep doing all this back and forth.
Speaker 4Okay, Okay Well your name is. Kabir, your name is Pierre Kabir, you first.
Speaker 6My name is Kabir Corrine and I'm a state representative and you know. Let's go back A couple of things that's been said by Mr Beard. They gave, they got money, one-time money and they gave raises to their employees.
Speaker 5They gave raises, they were not raises when you speak on my record.
Speaker 6speak facts about my record, Not saying that the employees did not need raises, but you took one-time money to do it they weren't raises that the city is going to have to keep doing it perpetually.
Speaker 5And we got a refund back.
Speaker 6Well, you still got to give those raises.
Speaker 5They weren't raises. Don't call them raises.
Speaker 6But my thing is this man it was premium pay, thank you, Okay, but you still have to continue, whether you call it premium, pay raises.
Speaker 5You don't have to continue that you, you don't have to continue that. You still have to do it.
Speaker 6No you don't.
Speaker 5They're still going to be getting that same money? No, they're not. You don't even know what you're talking about, but here's the deal.
Speaker 6Here's the deal. Let me tell you, we are not the same. We are not the same. This dude went to jail four times in one year.
Speaker 5How many did you go?
Working with Republicans in the Legislature
Speaker 6Twice, since you want. I was arrested twice, one for altercation with the mayor and one for a family matter with my daughter. Those charges were dropped, but, mr Beard. So you actually are violent, physical, putting your hands on people.
Speaker 5So Mr Beard, on the other hand, was charged four times. You have violent charges.
Speaker 6I never shot over my wife's head allegedly.
Speaker 5You have violent charges.
Speaker 6I've never been allegedly in the same hotel room with an alleged armed robber of the Waffle House.
Speaker 5All of these people are doing their time.
Speaker 6I am a friend of the LBGTQ community. I always try to sponsor legislation so I can show them that I am a friend. We are not the same. He went to jail four times in one year, as recently as December.
Speaker 5Something that you concocted you and your friends concocted. That I have proof. He just went to jail four times in one year as recent as December. Something that you concocted you and your friends concocted. That I have proof. He just went to jail in December that I have proof that you and your friends concocted.
Speaker 6And he's still trying to hold legislation that I have proof that you and your friends concocted and in my conversation he wasn't a good city councilman and he sure wouldn't be a good legislator.
Speaker 5I beg to differ. A lot of people beg to differ on that he threw a lot at you right there.
Speaker 1I want to give you an opportunity to respond. I know this is what you all wanted. I would not dare.
Speaker 5That's definitely not what they wanted. I hate that. This is what you all wanted.
Speaker 6I would not dare feed into that it is so unfortunate that his supporters have went back 15 years and brought up an arrest because of an altercation that I had with the mayor.
Speaker 1Well, I want to make it clear that we did not ask you about that no, but you did and this is your representation District 41.
Speaker 6But he did.
Speaker 5This is who represents you, District 41. He brought up the question that I asked you, the question I asked you and he has been bringing it up on social media, so let's clear the air.
Speaker 6It's public record and all those charges was dropped record and all those charges was dropped. Can you say your charges was?
Speaker 5dropped Every last one of them, even the one where you shot over your wife's head Dropped.
Speaker 6What about your drug charges? The drug charges was dropped.
Speaker 1You're paying fines on those.
Speaker 5You pay fines on those I'm not paying anything, well, that's good, but you didn't you didn't, but your charges were violent. How were they? And I wasn't charged If you got in a physical fight with the mayor and you got in a physical altercation with your daughter who said they were physical. I said altercation. The newspaper reported physical. Well, what did?
Speaker 6the newspaper report.
Speaker 5I don't know, but that's not what I'm here, for Are you?
Speaker 1reporting news now you have a criminal past. Because I want to go back to that.
Speaker 5But this is what you this, this is. This is what you came here to put your platform out, to push. Let me, let me, let me give him an opportunity to do all something. Let me give him an opportunity because the question that I the question that I asked him.
Speaker 1And I'm asking you now because I want to go back to what I asked you you are a leader in the legislative asked you, you are a leader in the Legislative Black Caucus.
Speaker 5You're a leader in the Democratic Party. Look at your leader. Y'all, You're the boots on the ground. Look how your leader is acting.
Speaker 1Let me ask him the question. I asked you the question. I'm going to ask him the question. The Democrats are the minority. The Legislative Black Caucus is very often sending press releases saying we do not support the thing that the legislature has done. So how does it, in your position in the Democratic Party and the Black Caucus, how do those two entities organizations, if you will, groups get more participatory in the laws that are actually passed, in the policies that are actually passed and the policies that are actually passed by the legislature? Because I mean, you are the minority, we are the minority, but you still have to speak truth to power.
Speaker 6You just can't lie down and just take what is going on when you know it's not in the best interest of the people of Mississippi, particularly the ones that you represent. And let me just go back to one in particular that we just did House Bill 1, which was the income tax bill. Are Republicans alerting that bill? That is some good piece of legislation and it's going to do good, depending on what tax bracket that you're in, because it's a tax shift and what it's going to do. It's going to leave a $2.2 billion deficit that when we get back in January that we're going to have to find some kind of monies to erode that deficit that we're going to have. So I'm looking at things from a holistic approach as I approach legislation and how is it going to affect the people of House District 41. So it's and it's also about relationships. You know Republicans tote the line. They don't Look once they get their margin orders. You know it's very few of them that will not vote the way their party.
Speaker 1How do you get them to listen to you? How do you get them to listen to the minority voice? I think you and me agree on something right there.
Speaker 4now, sir, I think you and I agree on something right there.
Speaker 6Look, that's just the name of the game. Most votes are down party lines. But you have to look at how it's going to affect the people in your district and the people overall of Mississippi, and I just gave you one example of that. That income tax bill is going to have a huge deficit and we're going to have to try to find some monies to fill in that gap.
Speaker 1Closing out here, guys, and we really appreciate y'all's time, appreciate y'all's candor, want to open up to each of you. We'll start with you, representative Anything you want to add about this race, about the needs of the district.
Speaker 6Look, I appreciate you all giving us the opportunity. This is the first time me and Mr Beard had a chance to look at each other about this race and look, the differences are there. Experience counts, seniority counts, and what we need to understand is this as a legislator, I make laws, I don't break them. We've been trying to pass legislation that's in the best interest of not only House District 41, but for the state capitol, and our interest is to make sure lives are better for black folks as well as the people of Mississippi and the people of House District 41.
Speaker 6I have never one time put on my armor of God and went into that capitol and have not thought about the people of House District 41, because without them I would not be there. And I think about when you start talking about Medicare. That's why the Medicare bill didn't pass, because it was a work requirement. That means that little Miss Susie or Miss Helen would have to go to work just to receive those benefits and we were not going to do it. So that's just a small minute example of why I'm continuing to try to serve the people of House District 41. I love them, they love me and they have supported me from my time as a city councilman to today, in my third term as a Mississippi legislator.
Speaker 5Mr Baird, in closing, I just want to say to you guys I have a plan, I have a list of priorities. Yes, experience counts. Yes, I have a plan from six years previous that I can put on anybody's table. Like I stated, district 41 needs a transportation plan.
Speaker 5District 41 needs to complete the Terry Brown Amphitheater. District 41 needs to continue fighting for MSMS. District 41 needs to continue fighting for MSMS. District 41 has a contaminated site in Kerr-McGee that nobody has brought about on the state level for the EPA. District 41 has pressing issues that are plaguing our community, but instead we have someone who talks about all of the accolades and the different things that they have. It seems like those accolades should be somewhere where you can push yourself to get these issues resolved.
Speaker 6This is the most that we have ever seen you talk since I came out to run against you, I didn't cut you off. That's a lie, though.
Personal Attacks and Criminal Records
Speaker 5You want to throw shots at me. Your colleagues call you Wednesday. The only time they see you is when you're turning in your per diems or it's time to vote. But I will say this I will continue to do what I'm doing, and that's stress the importance of homegrown success. Mississippi has everything we need in-house Great jobs, as stated. District 41 is home of the best industrial zones in the state Packard, airbus, beardor, steel, dynamics, just to name a few. We produce elite pilots In the armed forces at Columbus Air Force Base. We have a great workforce In our state. We have home of many actors and artists. Whatever you want to be in life, you can be it right here in Mississippi, and I stress the importance of getting involved In your local and state government and make your voice heard.
Speaker 4So what I'm hearing from you there Is you would like to take district 41 higher.
Speaker 5You got it all right, you said it, I did now look, no, you said it, that's one more question I do have for you was uh, was that intentional?
Speaker 5that was very intentional okay I prayed about it and the lord showed it to him because it's time to take our district higher and we speak about it and you know people talk about it because he brought it up about the arrest with marijuana. I suffer from seizures. I was a strong initiative for support of initiative 65A when that came to Mississippi for medical marijuana and once I get to the state I will be fighting for recreational purposes for marijuana in the state of Mississippi.
Speaker 1All right, Well, you heard it here and we appreciate you guys coming and again, appreciate your candor and the spirit of debate and you've been listening to Between the Headlines.
Speaker 6Thank you all.
Speaker 4If ever there was a festive occasion in this studio, that was it. We'll break it down. But first, do you have knee pain, muscle weakness, swelling or cold feet? Call King Associates Cardiology for an appointment today at 662-368-1169. King Associates Cardiology, we care and it shows. If you need serious equipment that gets the job done, landman Rentals has you covered. Skid steers, mini excavators, brush cutters, mulching heads you name it. They're local, reliable and built for the working man. Give them a call at 662-889-0541. Stuck on the road? Champions Towing in Columbus has your back. Fast, reliable towing and roadside help whenever you need it back. Fast, reliable towing and roadside help whenever you need it, whether it's a breakdown or a lockout. Call 662-251-9004 and get moving again.
Speaker 2The Good for Business podcast features interviews, tips and tricks from owners, operators and innovators. Hear the inspiring stories of growth and life lessons from guests in Mississippi and around the world Hosted by entrepreneur, fundraiser and real estate broker, colin Krieger. The podcast is based right here in the Golden Triangle community.
Speaker 4Okay, do you have any?
Speaker 1shrapnel. Those boys was mad at each other. Yeah, I know she had to take a restroom break.
Speaker 4Did you pull any shrapnel out of your face?
Speaker 1No, no, no, but that was they were ready for each other. They um had their talking points and I I was really surprised that that they just um kind of went at their uh records with the with the police and their arrest records and just kind of bore those out like that, yeah that was interesting.
Speaker 4Well, I think if I were in either of these two seats, I probably would have left that off of the table. I mean now granted.
Speaker 1Well, Kabir said this is what we wanted. I just wanted to make it clear we didn't ask him about it.
Speaker 4No, but I mean they brought it up themselves. Clear, we didn't. We didn't ask them about it, no, but I mean they brought it up uh, themselves. And um, I guess mr kabir believes he holds the high ground with only two, two arrests compared to four I mean that is fewer arrests than four yeah on the policy side of things.
Speaker 1Um, you know they're. They're obviously very clear on their talking points with the MUW MSMS situation. I mean, they're really on the same page with that. I think everybody else who is an advocate for keeping MSMS here, I think they know the talking points right now and can deliver them. It's just getting everybody else to listen to them.
Speaker 1The public transportation thing it is something that Pierre Beard advocated for, sort of in sort of pie in the sky passing when he was a councilman. Nothing real ever came of that on a collective level with the city. And whether a bus service would be a main talking point of a state representative campaign, I don't know how effective that's going to be. I don't know how effective a bus system would be in Columbus. I'm not educated enough on the subject to speak on it. One thing that I don't think that they that I don't think that they answered particularly clearly, because I don't think that there is really a clear answer. If there was, they'd already be doing it. The Democratic Party and the Black Caucus, you know they're frequent dissenters to what the legislature has done as a collective.
Speaker 1Sure, that's how it works Well, yeah, but I mean how it should work. Is there should be a viable enough Democratic Party to get Republicans to listen to them, or the minority party? It should be viable enough Democratic Party to get Republicans to listen to them, or the minority party. It should be viable enough to where the majority party is listening.
Speaker 4Which now it's not like that, it's not like that.
Speaker 1Republicans know they've got it and they don't have to talk to anybody else, and I feel like if the Democratic Party, whichever one of these gentlemen win, whichever Democrats win, in any district in Mississippi, there needs to be a plan for good government, and I would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. In good government, both parties need to be viable and there needs to be some sort of incentive to listen to the minority party, whichever one it is, and I think that that's something that Mississippi is terribly lacking right now.
Speaker 4I think so. I believe that a party that is too large is going to be complacent. They're not going to be willing to budge and that there's no incentive, it can be harmful.
Speaker 4A party that's too small, which is what these two gentlemen are vying for, is more or less a fart in the wind and they're not going to be heard. Heard, and we need them to be heard. Yeah, and I think the argument against each other today was well, you're not going to be heard down there. Well, no, you're not going to be heard down there, and it was like OK neither one of you are going to be heard, and but but hey, I am really glad they came on the program today.
Speaker 4I mean, other than just the festivities and the fireworks. I thought that that there were some tangible things.
Speaker 4I think there was definitely definitely to grab a hold of. I would have wanted to hear more of their take on the education reform. I mean that's coming through, jackson Don't know what's going to happen. Reform I mean that's coming through, jackson Don't know what's going to happen. It could be anything from consolidations to school choice. There's a lot of things to talk about in politics and it is definitely going to affect Lowndes County. Do you think there's any credence to Pierre's argument that Mr Kabir has been absent or non-present or non-vocal, or I mean just kind of sitting down there collecting his per diem? I mean that was did he draw blood when he made that argument.
Speaker 1I think that's going to depend on the voter. My experience with Kabir is he always pretty well always answers the phone at the same rate that the others do.
Speaker 4I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Regardless, let's talk about the mold madness at fire station number five. Yeah, yeah, that was something give me that, give me the story here real quick. So okay.
Final Statements and Closing Remarks
Speaker 1So fire station five, that's on north limburg road. They found mold in it, temporarily relocated the firefighters that work out of that station to, uh, a different fire station. There was an ill-fated, possibly premature effort to put them back in that station and or at least that's the way that the firefighters felt about it Chief Hughes disputes that fact slightly and all hell broke loose. And now we're dealing with that fire station getting the full-on inspection, treatment, cleaning and re-sheet rocking before the firefighters go back. I think right now they're scheduled to go back, maybe next week.
Speaker 4And we've got lost personnel in the process. We did.
Speaker 1We did when the fire station walls still had holes in them and they were still trying to determine if mold was left and they still hadn't found the source of the leak. You know, Chief Hughes tells the crew hey, I want you back in there tonight and Captain quit leak. You know, chief hughes tells the crew hey, I want you back in there tonight. And uh captain quit, captain of seven years quit because of um.
Speaker 4What he felt was an unfair uh was an unfair order, an unfair request from the chief well, I I'm a little confused by that, because we have guys here who are in the business of going into burning buildings and saving people and you're telling me they're afraid of toadstools that might be in the wall, I mean look, listen, all right, you want to have a? I'm gonna joke about mold, okay, yeah look, I understand.
Speaker 4Every now and again, there's a specimen of mold out there that can just make you turn crazy, like it'll it'll flip a switch. Well, I think the concern was if this was black mold, which is a type of specific type of mold that is, uh, that can just make you turn crazy, like it'll flip a switch, like it's neurotoxin.
Speaker 1Well, I think the concern was if this was black mold, which is a specific type of mold that is toxic, and all mold that is black is not black mold. Black mold is a very specific thing and it's toxic. I think that they were afraid that they were, or they were expressing that they were afraid that they were in a toxic environment.
Speaker 4Well, that picture in the paper looked very, very clean. I didn't see any mold on anything. I mean it was just it was drywall and steel.
Speaker 1And it was.
Speaker 1I think the mold has been removed at this point OK, look, I've got a few thoughts here, if, if, you don't mind, because I think that there there are some deeper issues here. Fire and Rescue has been heralded for a long time as one of the better run departments in the city. You know Dwayne Hughes, the chief. He's publicly fought for his guys on numerous occasions and I was there at the meeting when he turned down a pretty significant raise for himself once until his employees got a raise. His employees got a raise and they accepted the raise and his own raise in the next year.
Speaker 4Do you think maybe some of these guys just didn't like their job to start with?
Speaker 1Maybe and that's something that general pay and other things like that have come up it's possible that Dwayne Warren would go over there a little earlier than they were willing and with a little less actually checking into things than he ultimately did. His main point is having them where they are, is adding 30 seconds to a minute to their response time in their service area, which doesn't sound like a lot until you're the one having the heart attack.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1And that's a real long time. When it's your house fire, you're the one having the heart attack. Firefighter pay seems to be a sticking point generally. It's 1348 is the minimum wage for entry level over there. The um other other point that the firefighters. There were several uh firefighters that anonymously talked to me for the story and one of the themes of that was we have people that have certifications to do certain things like hvac and other things that are doing those on the clock for the fire department, and then there's other other types of labor that we're doing on the clock for the fire department that don't have anything to do with firefighting and they're getting like 15 an hour yeah well, they're getting their firefighter wages and then doing other specialized work is what the claim is.
Speaker 4Which is not good money for that type stuff. It would be quite cause for complaint, yeah.
Speaker 1And I think that I think there's two things that you look at here. One is you're living in that fire station, so you want it to be a safe environment, but there are when you're on duty. You're living there, you're eating there, you're sleeping there, you're working there. So there are other tasks. You know, certain non-specialized maintenance of the building is no different than going and putting gas in the truck, it's just. Or cleaning your equipment, making sure it's working. That's just part of the deal, and I mean that is just part of the deal and I've never been a firefighter.
Speaker 1I don't know that lifestyle. I am so very glad that there are first responders or there are people who do those jobs and love those jobs. I've never had one of those jobs so I do admit in some ways I'm talking out of turn here.
Hosts Discuss the Debate and Fire Station Mold Issue
Speaker 4Well, I I can tell you I would not want to be stuck in a building full of dudes for an extended period of time. I mean, let's just be real. Us men folk were not that great of communicators and they're female firefighters too. Now, david. Well, this is true, but I mean, I'm looking at this story here and I I just don't think these guys communicated very well. I wish them the best, but they kind of talked past each other, if I'm reading it right.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think so, and I think that the pay thing is a big sticking point. Chief Hughes brought up ADI and I think that's a false equivalency. Adi is paying $90,000. Stephen Jones made this point in the story. Firefighters aren't going to get paid that. So if they leave for ADI, then they just leave for ADI.
Speaker 1I think that you have to look at apples to apples and I think you have to look at other fire departments that you've got to compete against. And I think that's all you can do, because this is taxpayer money and there's only a certain amount of it. But there might be something that they could do with their and I'm just throwing this at the wall, I don't, you know makes common sense to me. There may be all kinds of reasons why this is silly to do certified professional work for the fire department while they're on the clock because they're maybe a firefighter with an HVAC certification or a firefighter with a plumber's license or an electrician or whatever like that.
Speaker 1I think that there's a way that you can do the pay scale in a way that benefits everybody. So what if you've got somebody who you've got a firefighter that's got an HVAC certification, plumbing, electrical, whatever, something that's papered a welder. Hell, I don't know what they would use a welder for, but if you've got a papered certification, something that you had to go get training for, pay for, get a certification in order to do the work legally and you work for the fire department in order to do the work legally and you work for the fire department, instead of trying to raise everybody's pay up every year, year after year which I think that they should look at doing anyway and the city does why not say okay, so if you have X certification, then we'll pay you $2 an hour more and it'll follow you up the ranks and then we can say hey, at fire station three or fire station five, you know, you're the person who's our frontline person for doing HVAC maintenance or doing HVAC checks, submitting a report every month, or electrical or plumbing or whatever.
Speaker 4I hear you. I think at that particular fire station they need a brick mason on hand. Isn't that the one where a truck ran through that place one time?
Speaker 1Is that the one where the truck ran through? I think so. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4Sounds like an unsafe work environment to start with.
Speaker 1But what do you think about that? What do you think about, you know, incentivizing people with skills to one apply for the fire department. Then you've got better maintained buildings all the time. It doesn't remove the need to have to bring in outside contractors always, but you're going to have to do it less often and you're invested in and paying them for their specialized work.
Speaker 4I think that sounds good, but, to be honest with you, I just want somebody that can put the fire out and can make my heart beat again, and that's it. And whatever else needs to be fixed, hire a pro. I'll leave it at that. That's just my opinion, zach. Before we close today, I want to start a new segment Three things to know.
Speaker 4Three things to know For those of you who, who, for whatever reason, don't have a copy of the paper. This will help you out. Three things to know real quick. What are they today?
Speaker 1all right, so the highway 45 project is starting as soon as september. Uh, burns dirt, put in the low bid of a million five, and this is going to be from the magnolia bowl to nearly the 82 interchange. Uh, pedestrian access, bike access, landscape islands. Slow the traffic down, make it a little prettier, make it a little more accessible landscape islands, so there will be concrete in the middle of the road yes, mayor sprue will be so pleased when she comes to visit Columbus.
Speaker 1All right, chef Jeff is also coming to Columbus to the Welty Gala. The W announced this week that famed chef Jeff Henderson is going to be the gala's keynote speaker in October. His appearance will highlight the annual Eudora Welty Writers Symposium set for October 23rd through 25th. And the third thing to know is Jeff Turnage, our guest from last week, the city attorney, is going in-house. He's been at Mitchell McNutt for over 30 years. He's leaving the firm and by the end of August will be a bona fide City of Columbus employee with an annual salary of $145,000.
Speaker 4I'm not so sure I would. Well, I'll let that one pass. You've been listening to Between the Headlines with the Eddie Bauer edition of the Chia Pet and managing editor of the Commercial Dispatch, Mr Zach Player.
Speaker 1I like that one.
Speaker 4That's fair oh yeah, and my name is David Chisholm. It's been quite fun today. Be sure to subscribe, rate and share and, if you want to, if you want to talk to us, you can either go tips at cdispatchcom or comment on any of our public posts on social media. You can follow me personally at D Chisholm double zero, and that'll be it for today, signing off from Catfish Alley Studios in historic downtown Columbus. This has been Between the Headlines. Y'all keep it friendly out there and in here. We'll keep it real no-transcript.
