Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
In Studio: MUW President Nora Miller
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The battle for the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science (MSMS) takes center stage again as MUW President Nora Miller breaks her silence on the controversial relocation proposal. With remarkable candor, Miller dismantles the flawed process that led to the recommendation to move MSMS to Mississippi State University—revealing how public input was overwhelmingly against relocation by a stunning 185 to 3 margin.
"It was predetermined what the decision was going to be," Miller states, explaining how the evaluation criteria were suspiciously developed only after proposals were submitted. She pulls back the curtain on the severe funding disparities, noting that while MUW maintains MSMS facilities for just 69 cents per square foot (when industry standards call for $4-6), the State Board of Education has consistently failed to advocate for proper funding.
Miller's leadership approach has evolved throughout this controversy. Initially giving state officials "space" to fulfill their responsibilities, she's now stepping forward as MSMS's champion when others wouldn't. "The State Board of Education has not been putting forth a request for funds for their buildings," she reveals, highlighting a critical advocacy gap she now feels compelled to fill.
Beyond MSMS, Miller addresses the W's strategies for growth through community college transfer pathways and specialized programs like nursing and speech-language pathology. She tackles the lingering name change controversy with refreshing honesty and acknowledges the political vulnerabilities facing regional universities in Mississippi. "Typically, before they would go after an HBCU, they're going to come for us," she notes, referencing recurring consolidation threats.
As this high-stakes education battle continues, Miller's mobilizing the university's passionate alumni base while working with a PR firm to amplify their message statewide. The fundamental question remains unanswered: will legislators invest $85 million in a new facility in Starkville, or will they properly fund the existing MSMS campus in Columbus? This pivotal conversation reveals how education, politics, and community identity intersect in ways that will shape Mississippi's future.
Episode Introduction and Sponsors
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MUW President Miller on MSMS Relocation
Speaker 4This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, the locally owned bank that makes decisions right here at home, by people who understand the needs of our community. That means local decisions, local support and folks who care. If your kid made the team At Bank First, we're not just bankers. We're neighbors and friends. Whether you're buying a home or starting a business or just need someone to explain what APR actually means, we're here, right down the street. Stop by your Bank First branch or visit BankFirstFScom to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing Lender Bank NMLS 454063. Today we are pleased to have in the studio Ms Nora Miller, president of MUW, who has had a long-standing tenure. There was the CFO and then the Interim President. In 2018, inaugurated 2019,. In 2018, inaugurated 2019. And here she is today, zach, it's finally Miller time. Yeah, we've been trying to get you on for a while.
Speaker 1We're glad that you finally agreed to come, and so a little context here. We actually invited both you and Sid Salter, the public affairs director from Mississippi State. Mr Salter politely declined. You graciously agreed to come on, but Mr Salter hasn't been silent on some of the issues that we're going to talk about today. Obviously we're going to talk about MSMS and I want to. Other people have commented on this. I haven't had a chance to ask you so I want to ask you. This is in response to the revelation that the public input on the MS-MS relocation was very heavily in favor of leaving it where it is and among the things that Mr Salter said about it, there's nothing remotely scientific about this input that reflects an accurate measure of public opinion, scientific about this input that reflects an accurate measure of public opinion. He goes on later to boast about MSU's quality of facilities and our faculty, about the superior experiences and amenities that a comprehensive university offers in comparison with a fine regional university. So I just want to start there with your impressions of that take.
Speaker 5We are proud to be a fine regional university that offers a personalized experience. We have a strong background in liberal arts, but we also have great professional programs, and so I'm very proud to be a fine regional public institution.
Speaker 1Where do you feel like y'all are right now with the possible relocation of MSMS, or do you feel like y'all are in a safer place than you were a year, two years ago? You?
Speaker 5know. As we submitted the proposals and then they became public, I thought if anybody is making their decision based on what is best for the taxpayers of Mississippi, based on what is best for the MSMS students and what follows the MSMS mission, I felt very secure that we had the best proposal. The public opinion obviously was in the same way and it may not be a scientific poll that was done. But I think 185 to 3 is pretty resounding.
Speaker 1Well, I would say so also. That's quite a, that's quite a stat. Yeah, that is a pretty good stat.
Speaker 4You can't fudge those numbers, like even if you tried, scientific or not, I mean, that's just, that's not even in question and I would say the, the 24 that were, please reconsider, seemed to be pretty heavily, please don't move it.
Speaker 5So I would would count those 24 as being pretty much in our favor too.
Speaker 4They were just really down in the whole process of the deal. They're like why would you do it this way? What's going on here?
Speaker 5And that is the problem that we have the most with it. It was predetermined what the decision was going to be. It was unfair. It was unfair in that all eight public institutions didn't have the opportunity to put forth a proposal and it was clearly biased towards Mississippi State in the very beginning. And then the public input. You know, when I asked the question after we got the RFP, I asked about how it seemed to be leading towards Mississippi State right there, with the emphasis on engineering. I was told that that was not intentional. And then I asked how the proposals would be graded, what the rubric would be.
Speaker 5And they said that that would be developed once they received the proposals.
Speaker 4So you're going to determine how you grade the test after you get the scores in after you get the. That doesn't bode well. You know, I'm a graduate of the education program over there and that's like the absolute top of the do-not-do list. You don't decide how you're going to grade something after you get them in. Come on.
Speaker 1Well, I want to go into some of the challenges with this. But first, this plan didn't get funded. This proposal, this recommendation from the Board of Education, it didn't get funded in the legislature, this session. What do you think that means?
Speaker 5Well, I think no projects got funded as far as construction projects or local projects, so that leaves a big hole everywhere. I don't know that there's going to be $85 million for the state to fund what this proposal would be. I think what's really needed MSMS needs facility improvements, facility upgrades. They need a way to maintain that so that it doesn't become every 35 years there's a crisis. It needs to be ongoing. So I think that the Department of Ed and the State Board of Education needs to figure out a way to take care of the facilities for MSMS, out a way to take care of the facilities for MSMS, really for all the special schools that don't have the ability to raise bonds or to have tax levies.
Speaker 1Well, to follow up on that, is there going to be $35 million for y'all's proposal? I don't know, and I mean is the status quo, like if what's going on right now and the condition of those facilities, not only at MSMS but at MUW. Can you kind of run through that a little bit and how tenable it is for it to stay that way?
Speaker 5Right, we've been fortunate. The last year or so we've had over 20 million dollars worth of projects that have been funded. We have a backlog of deferred maintenance. Actually, we have the least dollar amount of deferred maintenance of all the eight universities, so it's even worse for other institutions. Wow, yes, and so this year, with there being no bond bills, no capital appropriations, we're on a pretty tight balance line here of what are we going to do when something goes wrong, because it seems like every year there's at least half a million to a million dollars worth of things that go bump.
Speaker 4Something's already gone wrong. Right, you look at the air conditioner in the Cooper building. That thing has been down for how long?
Speaker 5It has not been down. It has been operating on a lower efficiency and we've been pumping in Freon every three days or so to keep it going. But they have had air.
Speaker 4Every three days.
Speaker 1Well, where do the rumors come from about you know, or the rumors reports, whatever? We've heard everything on the MSMS facility, specifically from like rats and holes in the ceiling and the floor and different things. Can you clear some of that up for us here?
Speaker 5Sure, Some of that. There were some rats that got in, there was work being done over the holidays and some of the workers left some things open.
Speaker 4My son might have left some Cheetos down there.
Speaker 5That's the problem. No, we maintain their buildings, their facilities. We have 60 buildings on our campus that we maintain their buildings, their facilities. We have, you know, 60 buildings on our campus that we maintain and we do that to the best of our ability. What MSMS pays for us to maintain their facilities is 69 cents per square foot. Industry standard is $4 to $6 per square foot. So we spend way more than what they pay us in maintaining those facilities.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, but looking at, I mean, that's what's happening right now. But for y'all's facilities on the university side to be what they need to be and for MSMS facilities to be confidently what they need to be like, how do you get the state to invest? How do you get the state to stand up off the purse strings?
Speaker 5Every four years IHL works out a bond bill plan and they run that by the leadership and so over the four years we would receive roughly, I think, 20-something million dollars. I think it's like $23 million. The regionals are all at pretty much the same level and the R1s are at a higher level and normally the legislature has followed that four-year plan. This year it didn't, so it left us all kind of in a lurch. But we have ongoing projects.
Speaker 5The legislature in the past has also been generous with capital appropriations that allow us to address things without having to go through the Bureau of Buildings, so that we can act a little quicker on these things. So I think whatever fell apart between the House and the Senate this past year just kind of put everything on hold. So I think whatever fell apart between the House and the Senate this past year just kind of put everything on hold. But I think if they get back to that four-year plan we'll be able to take care of those facilities that service our students. The problem is MSMS. The State Board of Education has not been putting forth a request for funds for their buildings and IHL has told me that I need to keep the focus on our buildings and let State Board take care of MSMS, and they haven't been.
Speaker 1Okay, well, I mean, but I know what you say, that IHL tells you, but what do you feel your role is in advocating for that funding and keeping the light and the pressure on MDE to adequately fund their school?
Funding Challenges for MSMS and MUW
Speaker 5I see my role as being a strong advocate for MSMS and in trying to foster better relationships through them. We also we have included MSMS in our facilities master planning process that we understand what their priorities are. You can have an idea of how we can help them achieve those things, but somebody needs to be asking for money for them. I'm trying, but I'm kind of doing it on a sideways bend because it's really K-12.
Speaker 1Right, well, okay, so if not you, then who?
Speaker 5Then I think, well, I think the State Board of Education and the superintendent of education need to be the ones really pushing for it.
Speaker 1Right, but they're not here.
Speaker 5They're not here.
Speaker 1And they seem to be pretty content with it moving, yeah. So, given those circumstances, who steps up here?
Speaker 5Well, that's when I have to.
Speaker 1Okay, so I want to back up here a little bit. There's been some criticism I was one of them, but I wasn't the only one of how out front you were in the process early on. Also, specifically when you released a statement where it said if MSMS goes, then we'll repurpose those facilities. There was a ton of people who went and I understand the pragmatism of that statement I do. But there were a lot of people who looked at that as a peacetime statement in wartime.
Speaker 5And so I guess, looking back at that, do you say that or what's the? That was a message internally to our campus. That was not a message for the public. That was to reassure our faculty and staff that, hey, we see this, we're going to make plans for one way or the other and we're going to be fine. We've got facility needs. If that should happen, we'll repurpose these and we'll think up another plan.
Speaker 4When I was a student there, I remember that the MS-MS kids were to some extent a nuisance to the, you know, the college kids. Okay, looking back, you know there's always something to complain about if you're in your 20s. We would go in like a practice room at Poindexter Hall and there would be evidence, shall we say, of intruders organ left on that type of thing. Intruders, organ left on that type of thing, did any? Of that play into your decision making, into word choices and the way that you've been an advocate.
Speaker 5Not really, and I think in the past there was that kind of friction between MSMS and MEW students. I haven't seen that in the last several years.
Speaker 1Okay, okay. Well, given the statement, we will figure it out if they leave. Yeah, you know, given some of the criticism of, you know, maybe not being out front in the war to keep MSMS in a very public way, msms in a very public way. I have two questions about that. First is do you see losing MSMS as an existential threat to the future of the W proper?
Speaker 5I don't see it as an existential threat. I do see it as a great loss. I see it as something that the community feels very strongly about, of their achievements. I would like to be able to continue that, but I think we are. We are more than just a fiscal agent for a public high school.
Speaker 4President Miller, I think the I think if, if the local people and the stakeholders were making the decision, it would be a done deal just to leave it alone and fund it properly right here where it is. Unfortunately, this is a statewide issue and, whether you agree with this or you don't agree with this, the Republicans down in Jackson have it in their muley heads that the W has a bunch of pink haired ladies that look like they fell in a tackle box and and they're like why are we funding this?
Speaker 1I want the record to show that David said that and not opinions.
Speaker 4And we are known for blue hair Opinions are those of the speakers and I'm not saying that. I believe that. I'm saying that the notion of that and the stereotype of that is out there and these are the things that I have heard lawmakers kind of grumble about. Okay, what say you?
Speaker 5Well, I think it's funny. You know they complain because our alumni are passionate and call and care and talk about things. But you know I'm sure they get plenty of calls when Ole Miss changes a mascot or other things. I bet they do. You're meddling.
Speaker 1I have had a legislator tell me before actually a couple of them that the thing that is the fastest, the thing that will make them hide behind their desk the quickest, is their administrative assistant telling them that a W alum is out in the office.
Speaker 5Well, good for us.
Speaker 4Well.
Speaker 1I mean okay. So two questions here how do you leverage that now for the future of the W and for the future of MSMS? How do you do that?
Political Perceptions and W's Leadership
Speaker 5Well, I think we made a good start last year with really energizing our LEAP program, our Legislative Engagement and Advocacy Partnership, and so we have reached out to our alumni and our friends. We have been pushing out information. We're going to continue to do that. We will be sharing the link to this podcast with our alumni and we will make sure that they are informed. Now we're not telling them what to do or, you know, telling them what to say, but we are providing them with information and, I think, getting this information out statewide. You know, most of the letters that I've read from the FOIA Act have been regional, local or people who were MSMS graduates. We want the word to get out across the state and we want to encourage people. If their legislators vote to give $85 million for this facility for Starkville-Octobah School, I want them to be asking for where's their money for their district.
Speaker 1Right and that kind of goes into this PR firm that the foundation's kind of front and hiring, with some help from the city and the county. Can you explain the relationship between the university and the W Foundation and how you specifically are interacting with this PR firm process?
Speaker 5We cannot use state funds for lobbying or this type of advocacy.
Speaker 5So our foundation is our funder for that and I'm very pleased that the city and the county have stepped up to contribute towards this. We also have some individuals who have expressed an interest in supporting these efforts. So we are trying to get the word out. We're going to participate. This is my first podcast here. We'll be doing some others getting the word out and we want people to understand the issues and understand the importance of this, and so we will be pushing word out. We also have established last year a key person network where we have alumni and friends who have a relationship with a legislator. They may live in that district, they may have gone to high school with them, they may go to church with them, whatever.
Speaker 5But we're trying to get people who, when somebody calls, they'll say, oh, that's so-and-so and take that call. And so we're going to encourage people to reach out to whoever they can.
Speaker 4Speaking as someone who has the heart of a fiscal conservative, I'm looking at this and I think the way to fight this is, first and foremost, purely from the financial standpoint, as you've stated. I think it is not only fiscally unsound, but it's morally wrong for 82 counties to foot the bill, largely for a high school in Starkville, mississippi. That right there is the crux of the issue and I think that right there it's what's going to win the hearts over of the decision makers. Because when I step back from this and I have the 37,000-foot view, what I see was a large trend for trade schools and for university-type things this and that, for trade schools and for university-type things this and that.
Speaker 4But the pendulum swung too far and we have begun to abandon our arts and the things that make us, shall we say, culturally colorful people. If everybody's out there welding, it's going to get quite boring in a hurry, Just saying If everybody's out there welding, it's going to get quite boring in a hurry, Just saying so, Zach.
Speaker 5Well, I also think I think fiscally it certainly would be the more responsible thing to invest in facilities on the W's campus. I think it would be less disruptive to MSMS. Back to the very reason that school was founded. It was founded to take these bright students where they can be fostered, where they can challenge each other and be in a supportive environment. If they are kind of just thrown in with the general population of another public high school, it loses a lot of its appeal.
Speaker 1Something that has come up in interviews that I've done, other reporters have done and then on the podcast, representative Kareem made mention of it last week the name change issue. The general sentiment from officials and even community members who have talked about this publicly is that the way that that was handled and the way that that ended and sort of just the shifting in the middle of that, just that whole operation, how it was done, made the W a soft target for what ended up being a bill to you know, close a few schools or consolidate you guys with Mississippi State, and you know a lot of those officials think that that's still in the wind as sort of using you guys as sort of the sacrificial lamb to then go and close some HBCUs. Do you agree that the way that the name change operation and the way that it was handled made y'all a soft target for that sort of thing? I'll start there and then I'll ask the second part of that question.
Speaker 5I think it made us top of mind. We were in the news, people were paying attention, so I think that contributed to it. But I will say also that it comes up about every 10 years that there's a statement that there are too many universities, and always the first target is the W.
Speaker 1I mean enrollment is another part of that.
Speaker 5Well, enrollment is another part of that, but it comes up periodically and typically, before they would go after an HBCU, they're going to come for us.
Speaker 1How much more, I guess, is the motivation there to strengthen and be unassailable or as close to unassailable as you can get?
Enrollment Strategy and Program Growth
Speaker 5Well, we are doing a great job of being a welcoming place for community college transfer students. We have the second highest percentage of transfer students of all public master's institutions. We are strengthening those relationships, building pathways for students who are coming up. They're making the decision about where they're going to go to school based on finances. Many of them are choosing to start off at a community college. We are making it a way where they can transfer those hours seamlessly. It a way where they can transfer those hours seamlessly. We're also looking at other programs that are needed in this state that are workforce positions that will be growing in the workforce and that are well paying, and we have degrees to support all 10 of those growing fields.
Speaker 1You guys have been announcing new degree programs in bunches lately.
Speaker 5Our nursing program is the best in the state. We know that the state of Mississippi has a health care crisis, a shortage of nurses. We have been trying to find ways to expand nursing. We put forth requests to the legislature for that. We're also talking with others about ways that we can do that. Speech-language pathology best program in the state. Our recent graduates have 100% passage rate on the praxis, 100% employed. These are the graduates from May. We are looking at ways to grow our graduate programs because that demographic lift fewer 18-year-olds coming along the way. So we are building master's programs. Some of those are in education. We've got a master's of art in education, specializing in elementary ed, a master's in multiple exceptionalities education. We're looking at this master's of hospitality and culinary instruction and I think that's really going to help us grow that culinary program.
Speaker 1Well, from an enrollment standpoint overall, what metric is success or and or shows that this is working Like? What metric are y'all aiming for and what? How long is it going to take to see that kind of growth?
Speaker 5We, we track this, you know, on a weekly basis. We look at where we are compared to this week last year and we're trending up. We're seeing great growth in education and in business. These are areas that we need. We're always seeing constant growth in nursing. We recognize that probably our freshman class. Even though we are trying to get as many freshmen as we can, we've got to really focus on these transfers and on the master's level.
Speaker 1So how many do you need, and in what amount of time, to shore up the gate?
Speaker 5We would be very happy if we hit back to the 3,000 level.
Speaker 1Okay, and right now y'all are around 22? 24. 24. Okay, well, how, uh uh, you guys opened up to birmingham southern uh folks, when they closed. How many of the how?
Speaker 5what was the? Return on that very little, very little. So most of those students were really wanting to stay in the birmingham area gotcha so I think Samford probably got the most of those.
Speaker 4For what Come over here it's great over here.
Speaker 5It is great over here.
Speaker 1Well, going back to the name change, I guess one. Where is that right now? And what do you think could have been done differently? Better to make it less of a negative light shown on the university.
Speaker 5You know, I still firmly believe that we need a name that better defines who we are and who we serve.
Speaker 1You've been co-ed since the 80s.
Speaker 5Yeah, that's right, but the problem is there are only so many W names, you know.
Speaker 4Yeah, there's a lot of points in Scrabble for a W names. You know there's a lot of points in Scrabble for a W, isn't it? That's right Into the six.
Speaker 5Yeah, so we are. You know, we have stepped back from that. We are proudly proclaiming us as the W, and that's the way it's going to be for a while.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, it's the way it's going to be for a while. So y'all aren't pursuing that and you've told me that before that y'all aren't pursuing that actively. But I mean, do you see that coming up again?
Speaker 4Yes, okay, it's not going to be Mississippi State Eastern Campus, is it?
Speaker 5No, I didn't care for the name they were trying to give us.
Speaker 1Well, but I mean I guess, looking back at the process that was, I mean I know your hindsight and armchair quarterback and all of that stuff. But are there some things that you go back to and say, ok, we tactically screwed that up?
Speaker 5When we do this again, we're doing it differently in this way, I think. Let's see, I think we got further with it than we've ever gotten before and, you know, I think involving more of our alumni early on in the process would be a good step next time.
Speaker 1Okay, do you feel like the alumni, especially the very passionate, this just doesn't need to happen. Alumni, I don't want to ask this question crassly, but how do you convert them? Or are you guys waiting them out?
Speaker 4Waiting for what Zach?
Speaker 5Well, I'm very proud of the passion that our alumni have for our institution.
Speaker 5And I wish they would dig deep into their pockets to help out with that and to share good news. You know, some of those alumni who were very outspoken have not been on campus, have not been involved, and so we really want to engage our alumni, let them see that we are still the great institution that they remember from the whatever decade. But every college has changed and continues to change every day. Who we serve changes, but it's still the same tenets, the same basic principles and the same good feel that our students have for the institution today that those graduates in the 60s had, and it's a special place.
Speaker 4And in business, if you don't change, you begin to die.
Speaker 5That's right.
The Name Change Controversy Revisited
Speaker 1Well, going back to the MS-MS issue and particularly your leadership in it, there seems to be a shift in you being more vocal and out front in that process. You're here today being more vocal and out front in the in that process. You're here today. You've you've been very, you've been very much more definitive in public statements that you've made. You've talked about, you know, doing roadshow with other podcasts and, and, and getting more out in front of this issue. What was the? What was the stimulus for the impetus, for that evolution of bringing you more out front, and why now and not before?
Speaker 5In December, the State Board of Education named a committee to look at the needs and possible expansion of MSMS and I wanted to give them the respect and the space to do that. I felt, and I still feel, this is a responsibility of the State Board of Education and I was giving them the space to do that. They did not follow through with what I had hoped, so I'm speaking up now.
Speaker 1Okay, how happy were you with the Tom Petty comparisons in the paper? I've got to ask you that.
Speaker 5I mean, yeah, I'm a great fan of Tom Petty, but you know he was not the most attractive person, and neither was that caricature.
Speaker 1I had nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2I just want to tell you that right now I like the song.
Speaker 5I like the resolve, I like the resolve. But yeah, that was my brother's got a big kick out of that one. It hit Washington and Missouri.
Speaker 1Okay, well, good deal, Good deal. The relationship between MUW and MSMS on the day to day. What have been the challenges to that through this process and how has that changed? Where is it now?
Speaker 5I think that the main challenge has been that MSMS has felt the need to remain neutral and to not speak up one way or the other.
Speaker 1I mean self-preservation Right. They've got to go wherever.
Speaker 5yeah, so that that just makes it a little awkward okay, because you don't really know yeah, and I, I can't speak for them, um, and they are hesitant to you know, I understand well, the leadership.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 5That they are in a position where they can't really do much. So it's yeah, it's kind of awkward. I'm out here asking for funds for them and asking for legislators to take care of them and asking them to keep them on.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, they've been pretty vocal in wherever we go.
Speaker 5Yeah, we need.
Speaker 1We need certain things that we don't have. So they have been vocal in that respect.
Speaker 4Well, they just want to keep the kids from drowning, regardless of which boat they end up on.
Speaker 1Right, right, right, but is there I'm just going to ask this question outright Between those two institutions, the W and MSMS, in regards to them coming to you and saying, look, we need this, can the W step up here? And either you won't or you can't, or there's just some reason why that doesn't come together.
Speaker 5Some of this is just your basic state procurement policies and working through the State Bureau of Buildings. This air conditioning unit for Hooper we started that project back in September and we've been pushing it along. But it takes getting things through some hoops and I understand MSMS's frustration. We're frustrated about it too, but that's just the way things work.
Speaker 4Do they, though? I haven't heard of kids being, you know, sweltering in a room, since, like civil rights and segregation, it's almost like the legislature is trying to sweat the kids out and force them to move to Starkville. Am I being too dramatic?
Speaker 5I think you're being way too dramatic. I think you've noticed what was it last summer? All the temporary units that were at Lowndes County Courthouse. There's just a shortage of things. And now, with tariffs and the cost of everything, these large units, they're not just sitting somewhere waiting. And, as a matter of fact, the units for Hooper are to be shipped from New Mexico on April 22nd, arriving here, or April August 22nd, arriving here August 29th, and they'll be in there.
Speaker 4And meanwhile you're just going to squirt a couple cans of Freon in.
Speaker 5We have located a couple of temporary units to be delivered next week.
Speaker 1Cool. Is there anything you'd like to add?
Speaker 5I would just like to add that we are looking forward to this coming year. We are anxious to see MSMS students returning at the end of this month, beginning of August, and our students will be moving in soon and we are looking forward to the year.
Speaker 1Well, thank you so much for coming on. We really enjoyed the conversation Hear hear.
Speaker 4You've been listening to Between the Headlines and, if I heard correctly to a certain extent I heard President Miller say to the HBCUs they're not coming after me, they're coming after you and I'm just standing in the way now well, you saw what I did there. You saw what I did there. I saw what you did there. They're after me we thank you for coming on, but I'm first block.
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Speaker 4All right, zach happy. 25th episode to you.
Speaker 1Yeah, I can't believe it's been that many.
Speaker 4I can't, but then again it's just that time of the year for me.
Speaker 3I tell you.
Speaker 4You know, not all podcasts make it to episode 25.
Discussion of CMSD Superintendent Search
Speaker 1Yeah, a very small percentage of them make it that far, so I guess we're doing something right. People like to listen to you. We're survivors, we're like cockroaches. That's right.
Speaker 4That's right People are still listening, so we appreciate that. We thank you, all of our listeners. Big shout out to every single one of you. I hope that if you're not following the show, you'll click that follow button so that when a new episode comes in, it comes straight to your device. So you are listening to Between the Headlines. Let's talk about the interview with Nora Miller, shall we? Yeah, what?
Speaker 1did you think?
Speaker 4David, oh boy, Well, there was a lot to unpack there. I thought she was very articulate on the issues at hand and I thought that she was a lot more loose and open and honest about things.
Speaker 1Obviously, was obviously a conversation that was going to be a lot more organic than you know preparing a statement or making a speech and I thought that it was a good conversation on the whole. A couple of takes that she had talking about sort of laying back you know the criticism of her not being out front sooner. In that discussion about MS-MS relocation, she said she was giving the State Board of Education room to do its job. But I mean, it seemed pretty obvious to me, as it was to you and a whole lot of other people and even to her, that she admitted that you know, the fix was in on that. So giving them the space to do the job that they're supposed to do advocating for MSMS and funding it properly and different things like that. And now since, in the absence of them doing what they should have done, she is now saying I'll be that advocate if I need to be.
Speaker 4Hmm, I'll be that advocate if I need to be. Well, I think perhaps if she were overly belligerent from the beginning, then maybe it would have attracted the wrong kind of publicity. And you know, us Republicans can be very muley headed and I can see certain people, particularly on the Mississippi Board of Education, just planning their heels down. Ok, if you're going to be like that, and then it may not have developed in the way that we wanted it to.
Speaker 4So maybe she knows some stuff that we don't Maybe, but I like the fact that her heels are firmly planted at this point. And the offense has started.
Speaker 1I would say Well, I mean, your best defense is always a good offense. That's what they say. The fact that she's here, the fact that she's planning on going on another podcast, being more out front, you know, rattling the cage if she needs to. She's talking about getting the W alumni riled up. Oh that's a that, that's her army man.
Speaker 3That's a she.
Speaker 1she spent in the name chain, she spent the whole time fighting them.
Speaker 1But in this, this is an opportunity that she can fight with them or you know, have her, her fighting along with them for the W and for MSMS, and you know we've said several times that we think that that's her most effective play and it sounds like that's where she's headed and I like that. I disagreed with her. Obviously. She gave MSMS some props of you know being very essential to MUW, but she maintains that losing MSMS isn't an existential threat to the W and you know I couldn't disagree more.
Speaker 4Yeah, I think that right there has a lot to do with activity per square foot. When you look at the campus of MUW, or any campus for that matter politicians want to look at it and they want to see tax dollars at work and they want to know that that productive things are happening. And if you take a large chunk of that campus and vacate it and you've got empty buildings that you can't tear down, by the way, because they're protected.
Speaker 4You have to repurpose them, then it becomes a big-time liability, and I think Dr Miller was spot on when she said that well, the HBCUs are right there on the target list.
Speaker 1And they've got to get her first if they want to have any political survival and trying to go after any HBCUs. They've got to be able to say see, it wasn't a target job on an HBCU, it affected everybody, even though it was Well, you know, it affected everybody.
Speaker 4Yeah, even though it was.
Speaker 1Well, she has to signal to the W and the W alumni that they're not going to just wave the white flag if MSMS goes away. I understand the pragmatism of that, but for a lot of people who aren't in Columbus, the W is a small school. Msms is a good chunk of their reason for being and I think that I think that if MSMS leaves, the W will fold into MSU shortly after that as well.
Speaker 4Well, I'm just with you in the sense that she needs to really stir up that alumni base, and they've got the power to. Hey, I'd like to. I'd like to see a rally. Get those alumni out there at the amphitheater. You know it's got to be done by December 30th.
Speaker 1We're not going to let you forget that, steven Jones.
Speaker 4It's going to be a wild ride.
Speaker 1That's right.
Speaker 3That we're on a trajectory.
Speaker 4Not sure what it is, but we're on that trajectory name change.
Speaker 1Uh part of that conversation was interesting too. Uh, there are only so many w names. I liked that. Um, I also I mean her saying that it's not in an in the immediate plan to continue pushing that, but, um, that it's coming back. I mean the name of that. The name of that university needs to change if enrollment is going to have any bump. That is going to be sustainable.
Speaker 4I think that's true. I think perhaps that could be an item of negotiation, if, in fact, the legislature and decision makers will bring the stakeholders to the table. Yeah, let's include this in whatever form it may happen to be. Yeah, let's include this in whatever form it may happen to be. Other than that, we need to stop talking about it. It's just such a lose-lose kind of issue.
Speaker 1That's your solution for everything, man.
Speaker 4Well, no, for that one in particular, I'll say this when they came up with the Brightwell, bedwell, whatever it was, university Okay, I'm like, okay, there's a name, let's go with it. You see these marks on my neck here.
Speaker 5Yeah.
Speaker 4Yeah, I'm still suffering from the rope. Nobody liked that, it seemed like, and I just wanted to have the conversation done with and over, but the alumni did not feel the same way and, for whatever reason, it turned into a Trojan horse for much worse things.
Speaker 1Right, and I think that that's going to be something that, when this comes up again, those alumni need to remember. Their adamant dissent to progress and change was used against them by greater forces later, and it nearly folded the university into MSU.
Speaker 4Well, it resulted in a very, very ugly bill to get introduced, for sure.
Speaker 1And the W survived it and continues to survive it.
Speaker 4The lesson to be learned is to hey, let's keep the main thing, the main thing.
Speaker 1Right, okay, I agree with that. Moving on to CMSD, I don't know how much reading you've done on what's been going on there with the superintendent search.
Speaker 4Well, per the paper, the search for the Columbus Municipal School District superintendent has been paused until January and perhaps later. They had it was either two or three finalists, if I recall.
Speaker 1They had two finalists they had two.
Speaker 4One of them dropped out, withdrew his or her name.
Speaker 1That's correct.
Speaker 4And we are left with. Is it one finalist plus Mr Chapman?
Speaker 1No, Mr Chapman was the other finalist.
Speaker 4Okay, so that is just him.
Speaker 1Right, he's the last man standing here, chapman. He was the high school principal turned assistant superintendent. He served a couple of stints as interim superintendent. This will be the longest stint. They essentially extended the last man standing as the interim superintendent through the fall semester, and this is a tryout, this is a. If you do the job well enough, we'll consider, you know, removing the interim tag and letting you just stay there. I don't dislike this move. You know they had nine applicants. Overall, only three of them met the minimum qualifications for the job, and of those three, they picked two finalists and one of them dropped out. It's a safe move. It's a stabilizing move, because you've already got somebody who knows the district. Is it safe, though?
Speaker 4I mean think about this In 2019,. Dr Sam Allison was appointed to the Lowndes County School District as the superintendent. Right and, if you recall, there was a second candidate who was also at the top of the list.
Speaker 4I won't say that candidate's name she's since passed away but it turns out that there was a belief and there was evidence there that they picked Dr Allison because he was a man and there was a settlement, the details of which I don't have and don't care to talk much about. But my point simply being you can't go about this process willy-nilly. This is a high-profile job and you better pay attention to the cards that are on the table, because you've got kids at stake and if there are people that are left off the list, that could come back to bite you.
Speaker 1Well, of these two finalists. I mean they didn't name the other finalist, but here's a couple of facts. Inune robert smith, board president, says, uh, we want this guy from kemper county, this, uh, haloot hudson, kemper county superintendent. He was a finalist last time. They passed him over for stanley ellis. So they say in june, we want to, we want to recruit him again. Um, and then they have chapman. That they acknowledge was the other finalist and a Kemper County school board member was coming to a CMSD board member and talking to Robert afterward. Those are the things that we know so we can't right.
Speaker 1So we can't say definitively that Mr Hudson was the was the other finalist, but a lot of signs point to Mr Hudson was the other finalist, right. So let's talk about then the search process. They get Mississippi School Boards Association to come in. They do this whole headhunting process. We're going to gather up all of these. We're going to gather up all of these applicants for you. We're going to present you with the applicants. You choose your finalists, then you can go through the process as you wish from there.
Speaker 1Ten thousand dollars in this process, and the most likely scenario right here was I mean, this Hudson fellow was the other finalist. The people that they brought them were six people who weren't qualified to do the job, and then the two finalists being the person that Robert said he wanted them to go specifically get and a guy that was right down the hall. So what did MSBA do? Tell me that. And so for me, there's a few things that need to happen here. One we know that CMSD has, you know they've had a lot of turnover in the superintendent's office. There's been some grumbling about, you know, micromanaging and whether the superintendent gets to actually do their job or to what extent they get to do that. Applicants don't want to hear about that.
Speaker 4Right, right, right. They are pros. They've been to school a long time.
Speaker 1Mr Chapman does not need to have to deal with that. So if they're going to let him be the interim and it's a good faith tryout to get that job in January, they need to let him do the job. They need to stay out of his way and if he makes mustard, they need to give him good, solid metrics for what he needs to the boxes he needs to check, to be to to get the job in january and if he meets them, let him have it. If he doesn't meet them, be honest about that. Don't squint and say, whatever, get the best person for the job that you can get, but if you open that process back up, can we get some? I mean, I mean, hell, do it yourself.
Speaker 1If the two finalists that you're going to get are an internal candidate and the guy you asked for, they might have to do that Right. I don't see the need to spend more money with at least not MSBA, who brought them six candidates that didn't even meet the minimum requirements and their finalists were the guy they asked for, most probably, and a guy right down the hall. They can do that themselves better or hire another firm that can get them a fresh pool of applicants that isn't just recycled from school district to school district A couple of things there.
Speaker 4I mean, it just seems that a job of this caliber, you could almost just put it out there on a particular website and have the applicants come to you. I don't know about paying $10,000 to advertise for this. Moreover, to your point, speaker Jason White agrees with you that there are probably too many superintendents out there to start with. You know whether or not that's true, let the listeners decide, but there's definitely a push in the legislature to consolidate all of these administrative costs, and by this time next year, you know, mr Chapman may not even be in this discussion, which, by the way, is a side note. Mr Chapman, I've noticed looks a lot like Omar Epps. Yeah, dr Foreman on House MD. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1I had to do a double take when I saw Willie Mays Hayes in Major.
Speaker 4League Two is what is who I say LMRIPS, ok, well, that you know. That's definitely a qualifying factor for the job.
Speaker 1So I just this is a big job. Cmsd shouldn't settle for less, msds shouldn't settle for less.
Speaker 4One thing I can tell you is that the general public, including any applicants, they don't want to see any hint of nepotism, nor do they want to see the micromanagement If the school board can stay away from doing those two things, then we'll all be better off for it.
Speaker 1I mean, I think that's true of any district or any organization. But to close the show out today, or to get toward that end, three things to know from the paper over the past week. Read the paper y'all.
Speaker 1PACCAR laid off some of its workforce this week. Mom's word from the company on how many or why. But PACCAR's quarterly report filed this week notes the uncertain impact of tariffs and a soft truckload market unquote in its north american market. All right. Second thing, bass master. It's coming back to columbus next year, this time with one of its elite series stops.
Speaker 1The tournament is scheduled for march 26th to 29th on the 10-time waterway and it represents the only stop for that series in mississippi next year okay, here, here we need to be showcasing our water yeah, you've been saying that all along, and last year the bass master open came here and now and now this so also in columbus something we talked about, I think, on the last episode or maybe the episode before. Residential garbage rates are staying the same for the customer at least through August 2026. City Council last week voted to absorb the cost of a coming increase from Golden Triangle Waste Services, that's the third-party contractor that collects the trash. The move will cost the city roughly $100,000, but it will not appear on the customer bill.
Speaker 4Yeah, I've already opined We'll pay for it one way or another. I'm just thankful to have garbage service.
Speaker 1That's right.
Final Thoughts and Local News
Speaker 4I hate garbage you have been listening to Between the Headlines. Let's go to the mail. Today I have one respondee, and this is regarding the fire station mold controversy. The person said I just need you and Zach to know that the mold was bad and it was only a small part of the issues at play. So yeah, most definitely probably true there. You know, zach and I, we often talk about things that we have very limited information about, so we rely upon feedback such as yours. So we thank you for that comment and we thank you for listening.
Speaker 4And, by the way, about once every year or so, public service announcement, particular to those of you who live out in the county you're going to have this older gentleman pull up in a pickup in your driveway on behalf of the volunteer fire department. He's going to knock on the door and he's going to ask for $40. Okay, do not hide from this guy. Okay, break out the billfold, turn to page 100. You're not going to miss that money. Hats off to our volunteer firemen and firewomen.
Speaker 4Between the headlines with Zach and David. This will conclude episode number 25. Anything you need to throw in there? No, I think that's got it All right. Well, let's close it out. Tips at cdispatchcom. Tips at cdispatchcom or follow me personally at dchism00. Anything we see on a public post we might catch on to and and discuss on this show. It's been a good one. Be sure to follow the show and we will sign out from catfish alley studios here in historic downtown columbus. Your host has been zach player and I am david chisholm. Until next time. Y'all keep it friendly, we'll keep it real no-transcript.
