Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
In Studio: Sen. Chuck Younger PLUS City's Need for Transparency After Press Release Nightmare
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Transparency isn't just a buzzword—it's the cornerstone of public trust. When Columbus city officials issue misleading statements and then refuse to acknowledge their mistakes, who holds them accountable? This question echoes throughout our latest episode as we examine the proposal for a Public Information Officer at City Hall and the disturbing absence of the CPD Citizens Overview Committee. Will a new city PIO position enhance transparency or simply become another layer of bureaucracy shielding officials from scrutiny?
Our in-depth interview with State Senator Chuck Younger offers insights into Mississippi's most pressing challenges. As chair of the Highway and Transportation Committee, Younger pulls no punches about the state's infrastructure woes. His candid discussion of agricultural struggles hits close to home—this year marks his first not farming row crops since age 21 due to economic pressures facing the agricultural community.
Education takes center stage as we explore the controversial proposal to relocate the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science from MUW to Starkville. Senator Younger strongly opposes this move, questioning both its necessity and its substantial cost. The conversation extends to school consolidation, education funding, and the delicate balance between tradition and progress in Mississippi's educational institutions.
Intro to Between the Headlines
Speaker 1From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity and our reporting will always reflect that. And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 4This week on Between the Headlines in the wake of the College Street Autobahn scandal. Do we need a public information officer? Big question that we'll discuss today. Also, the Columbus Police Department Citizen Overview Committee is currently inactive. Chief Daugherty says we don't need it and Mayor Jones is missing in action. Lots to talk about there. Also in the studio we have Senator Chuck Younger and I expect he has riled up about something.
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Public Information Officer Debate
Speaker 4This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, the locally owned bank that makes decisions right here at home by people who understand the needs of our community. That means local decisions, local support and folks who care. If your kid made the team At Bank First, we're not just bankers, we're neighbors and friends. Whether you're buying a home or starting a business or just need someone to explain what APR actually means, we're here right down the street. Stop by your Bank First branch or visit bankfirstfscom to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and equal housing lender bank NMLS 454063. All right, listeners, you are here with, between the Headlines, the master of millage math and managing editor of the dispatch, mr Zach Player, is here, and my name is David Chisholm. Top headline today is the PIO Zach. What is a PIO?
Speaker 1Well, public information officer, pr person, you know. Whatever. What have you? Part-time or full-time? Well, that depends on when you're talking about. It Looks like if they vote on it Tuesday, it's going to be a part-time contractor gig, similar to what Joe Dillon had when he was in that same position. But I think Jones is going to make a push to make it a full-time, salaried position for next fiscal year.
Speaker 4to make it a full-time salaried position for next fiscal year. Man, that's a, I don't know. That seems like a lot of money for someone who's just going to potentially just be a puppet of the administration.
Speaker 1Well, you know that's kind of my first point. This is not a bad idea if it's done right. First of all, you know I've met Shawanda Jones. I talked to her again the other day. I knew her when she was here at WCBI. We worked in the same places a lot. This is a very intelligent young lady, very professional, very knowledgeable. I mean this is not a bad pick for this job, you know, if it's done right. There's no such thing as a good pick for this job if it's done poorly.
Speaker 1And you know what would being done poorly. Look like Jason Spears, during the work session Tuesday, brought up one way which is this going to be a gatekeeper that's just essentially going to bar the media and the public from access to the rest of the administration. Jones is adamant that that's not going to be the case I spoke with. When I say Jones, I'm talking about the mayor, stephen Jones. I guess I should clarify because if she's hired, this is going to be the third Jones in City Hall and that's going to be hard to keep straight.
Speaker 4Quick point of clarification these Joneses are not all related.
Speaker 1Those are not related. They just all happen to be Joneses.
Speaker 1This is not Lamar County, alabama, but Mayor Stephen Jones is adamant that, oh no, this isn't going to be a gatekeeper position, this is going to be an access position, this is going to be a point person position, but this isn't going to kill the networks that the public are, direct networks that the public and the media already have with public officials. If that, if that is the case and that turns out to be true, I think this is a wonderful addition. But we have another issue. So let's rewind to the very controversial and not entirely accurate press release that came out from City Hall a couple of weeks ago in reference to that wreck where, you know, among other things, we blame Baptist for this drug test that didn't happen.
Speaker 4And then Baptist comes back two days later and says no, no, no, no, no, that wasn't us. Pause that right there. I just want to say people are so mad about that. We have a vacuum of accountability in this town and it's like the fox is guarding the hen house and the CPD can't police itself. And right now, stephen jones, he ain't doing it right. Where are we headed?
Speaker 1here and well, I mean, we could head in a good place with this public information officer, but we could also head to this place. What is she gonna do? When I say she, I mean miss shawanda jones or any pr person what they going to do if they're presented with? Hey, I want you to write up a press release that says that Baptist had a guy die, didn't get this drug test done. We were unaware of that until the next day and the Baptist has since apologized and implemented training to keep it from happening again.
Speaker 1Is she going to look at him and say, yes, sir, or is she going to look at him and say, how do we know that? And that is going to be the difference in this being a modified gatekeeper or being someone who is going to be an asset to the city and that you know a lot of that isn't going to be what Shawanda Jones said, because she's in that situation and those expectations are there. Then you know the only choice she's going to have is going to be to comply or quit and or find somebody who will do it. But if the expectation is we're going to get honest communication out to the community, then Ms Jones is a wonderful seems to me to be a wonderful candidate for that role.
Speaker 4Well, it's hard to find a good whistleblower when the need arises within any administration Democrat, republican and I just you know, I look at like just the White House press room and I see whoever's up there, regardless of who's in power. They've got a script and their job is to make the guy in charge look good, right.
Speaker 1OK, stephen Jones looks good enough without somebody else propping him up, right, right. I didn't know what I thought about this PIO position. And then I read a press release where sheriff was spelled with one F, and then it kind of got me thinking maybe we do need this person. And it was a very resounding slap in the face that sort of indicated the end of the honeymoon that we've been talking about with this administration. But more interesting to me was Stephen's response to that criticism. First of all, he kind of laughs off the spelling error and says you know, that went through three people and nobody caught it. Well, sheriff is kind of hard to spell, but then I have a hard time with aluminum, in case anybody ever sees that. But the the issue here is his. He continues in his response and he says but you know, if you're looking only at the misspellings and I'm not quoting him directly here, I'm summing up his quote.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1If you're only looking at the misspellings instead of the message, then you aren't ever wanting to look at the message anyway.
Speaker 4But the message was the message was false. It was bad dude.
Speaker 1And that response from Stephen just, I mean, he's not Obi-Wan Kenobi, this is not a Jedi mind trick that he can play and the idea that he would say oh well, you know the spelling error, sorry about that, but if that's all you're focused on, then you're really not looking at this press release in good faith, anyway. Well, okay, well, was it written in good faith? We've talked about this already. There was false information in that and his statement in that work session showed an egregious lack of acknowledgement of that. He hasn't acknowledged it at all, and when given the opportunity to acknowledge it, he just simply failed to and continued to act as if there was nothing wrong with the substance of that press release.
Speaker 4Sheriff being misspelled was secondary, a distraction almost yeah, or distraction almost yeah. I want to say on the record that I've been trying, and I am still trying, to give Mayor Stephen Jones a chance. I still want him to succeed and I still want to be able to come behind this microphone and say good things about him.
Speaker 1And I think that there's going to be plenty of opportunity to do that. This just happens to be one of those places. Today is not a good day.
CPD Citizens Overview Committee
Speaker 4I can't do anything positive for him today, and here's why this is a crisis right now. Okay, people are in severe and deep mistrust and disillusionment with their leadership, and you don't ghost your community in a time of crisis. You asked him and he ignored your texts. Okay, and you don't ghost your community in a time of crisis. You asked him and he ignored your texts. Okay, I mean, you were polite. You said in the paper, you said that he didn't respond by press time. No, he's ignoring you and everybody knows that he's ignoring you. He's got to pick a side on this and right now, he's not picking the side of transparency. And let's talk about transparency. Transparency is not an empty platitude. This right here, this incident with Bankhead and this crash this is a textbook example of why active transparency is needed. And if it's not going to happen, don't get up there and act like you're a person of transparency, because we're not seeing it. Transparency is not something you talk about. It's something you do.
Speaker 1Well, you can't make up your own reality and I know that on other levels of government you frankly see that happen with greater effect. Um, but here's the reason that it doesn't work as well on the local level. You're, you're not in washington, you're maybe not in jackson, you're not you. You know, and usually you've got, that information that's coming from those places is distilled through the messenger. That makes people most comfortable.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1And that's a problem. That's a big problem, but it allows people on the federal level, and sometimes even on the state level, to obfuscate or just make stuff up and say that's not real. This is real. That's not the real jobs report. This is, but on the local level. That becomes problematic and it becomes problematic for this reason. So you live on 14th Avenue North and you're driving and there's this huge pothole on your road and so you call the mayor and you say mayor, there's a huge pothole on your road. And so you call the mayor and you say Mayor, there's a big pothole on my road. It's dangerous to everybody's cars. It's driving around it over it. It needs to be fixed. The mayor says, okay, well, we're going to fix that on Thursday, all right, so maybe you go out of town, you come back On Monday, you go to work or you go to daycare, go take a kiss daycare, whichever, whatever reason that.
Speaker 1You're driving down 14th avenue north to get someplace and you hit that pothole right it's there and you call the mayor and the mayor says oh no, you must be mistaken, we fixed that pothole. Well, that doesn't work. Why? Because everybody can see the pothole. People are dry, they first-hand knowledge of this pot and it doesn't matter how many times the city says well, you know, that's not real. Hey, you're still hitting the pothole with your car and everybody else is too. So that's why, in local government in particular, it's much more difficult to Jedi the reality or the facts away. You have to stay tethered to those facts and in this particular instance it doesn't look like that's happening and it doesn't look like that there's any acknowledgement that that matters and that's concerning. And with a PR person coming in, what I'm saying is she can help that situation or she could be forced to double down on that situation and the jury's out on what Stephen Jones is going to decide on that front.
Speaker 4Well, to your point. Look at the wreck, Look at the fallout from that wreck. The friendly city smelled a rat. Long before the news broke, okay, Nobody was believing what was being said about it. And then, when the sheriff's department came out with that report, they're like oh, yeah, yeah, and it was like 500 shares on Facebook. Because it's an outrage, Let me ask you this what did you make of Daughtry's comment where he said he did not need that CPD Citizens Overview Committee because he was going to be transparent? Zach, I want to ask you something about this. Columbus Police Department Citizens Overview Committee. But first let's take a break. If you need serious equipment that gets the job done, Landman Rentals has you covered. Skid steers, mini excavators, brush cutters, mulching heads, you name it. They're local, reliable and built for the working man. Give them a call at 662-889-0541. Stuck on the road? Champions Towing in Columbus has your back. Fast, reliable towing and roadside help whenever you need it, Whether it's a breakdown or a lockout. Call 662-251-9004 and get moving again.
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Speaker 1I think before the break we were talking about the Citizens Overview Committee CPD Citizens Overview Committee. Right now, there seems to be some disagreement among city leadership and even some former member, you know some citizenry of whether this needs to come back. It's been inactive for some years but in the wake of that, there's a little history here in the wake of that Ricky Ball shooting in 2015,. This was one of the things that was created to kind of help with that and what this committee was. It was a selected committee of citizens. You know they recommended policies, they reviewed officer incidents, they recommended discipline and they liaised with the public Like. One of the primary things that they did was they offered more citizen access to the voice of the police department. Where the police department didn't feel like they could say or they didn't want to say, there were things that members of the CPD overview committee could say to you know keep the public informed about what was going on, when they really did indeed need to be informed about what was going on?
Speaker 4So let me ask you about that. So Joe Q Sixpack doesn't have the time or necessarily the ability to go into City Hall and request records and request body cam footage, and so it's just a group of people that are appointed or elected. They were appointed, okay, right To put this information together and to put it out there in a polite way.
Speaker 1Well, I mean not necessarily put investigative information out there. Some of that stuff's protected under investigative exemptions from direct public access, even with the media, you know request and there's some things that they can deny because the law exempts those from disclosure.
Speaker 4So they would watch the tape and then summarize it and then say, hey, in this particular case, we believe that the officer was doing the right thing. Or not or not. And here's how it happened and here's what we believe.
Speaker 1Right. It's really no different than the Planning and Zoning Commission what they do with it. This was just another way for citizens to help the city call balls and strikes.
Speaker 4But did they have any teeth?
Speaker 1No, they didn't it was like B and Z.
Speaker 4That's why it's an overview committee and not an oversight committee. Understood.
Speaker 1Right, but in my opinion and this is just my opinion I don't have stats to back this up.
Speaker 4We sometimes do that on this show.
Speaker 1Right, it was just from my gut at the time that that committee was active. The view of the police department was more positive, I think, after a shooting. Well, I mean, they stayed around for more than just that and they dealt with more issues than just that. And I think that because they were there and I'll give you an example. Let's say, for example, the police chief wanted to suspend somebody for three days. If the overview committee thought that was too short, they said so and they made a different recommendation. By the same token, let's just say you had a kind of bad situation that Facebook had kind of blown out of proportion or whatever. And they get in that executive session where they talk with the overview committee about, well, the chief is recommending three days or whatever.
Speaker 1Well, because the committee had credibility, people, and if they came out and said, well, you know that recommendation's sound to us, we like it in retrospect. People had a general trust that they were acting in good faith and because of that, by extension, they had more of a positive view of the police department on the whole, because they felt like there were more people calling balls and strikes, they weren't getting fleeced by people who didn't want to talk to them and it was just better. But there's an article in the paper where a councilwoman now councilwoman Levine Harris who was on that committee she was when it was active. She wasn't a councilwoman at the time but she was on that committee when it was active she says I went to Daughtry, I asked him if he thinks it ought to woman at the time, but she was on that committee when it was active. She says I went to Daughtry, I asked him if he thinks it ought to come back and he said, no, we're going to be transparent.
Speaker 4And that is where I jumped up out of my seat. I wasn't particularly interested in that article, but when I read that, I threw my pen down and I'm like I got to talk to this, I got to talk on the air to this, because that, right, there is the problem. You know, chief Daughtry, I want to give you a chance. I think you're a very respectable person, but how do you go about saying that, okay, we're going to have transparency and, as such, let's not have a committee to help us implement that transparency?
Speaker 1Yeah, all right, I mean, yeah, I think that says something. Another thing, though I think is interesting you know Colin Krieger, a very good friend of the mayor and a man who gave the welcome at Stevens inauguration. He was on that committee and he's in that same article saying it has value, it needs to be active. I don't think he's saying I want to be on it and therefore it gives it value. I think it just the general practice, the general enterprise of that, or the general principle of that committee existing, of that committee existing. He says it has value and both he and Harris believe that it would have been vital in this wreck situation that we've been talking about now for a while.
Speaker 1It's also interesting that, levon, a lot of people think you know, when you change positions, you maybe change your view on things. You know LeVon Harris is on the council now, but she's steadfast. But she is steadfast that that committee, you know her power has not equaled a need for exclusivity. This isn't about her is what you as, what you're getting from her, and I was like this committee is vital because, because it's vital, this committee is a good thing, because it's a good thing, and I, as a councilwoman, think that I would want to hear from a committee like that as part of this conversation. That's powerful for her to say that in my opinion, and it's something that I think that Daughtry and Mayor Jones should listen to and consider.
Speaker 4Well, it needs to be reconvened, no question about it. Do we have to have Daughtry's and Jones' permission to convene it? I guess we do, don't we? I mean, can they block it from being reconvened? I mean, it's going to be hard to do it without their cooperation. Yeah, it's going to be hard to do it without their cooperation.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's going to be hard to do it without the cooperation. That's the thing that the council can institute it and say, no, we're doing this. And if the mayor and police chief drag their feet or don't cooperate, then it's going to be made in effect.
Speaker 4Zach, let me say this If they cooperate and endorse the reconvenement of this committee, that's going to really right some wrongs here. I'm worried about it. I don't know that they'll do it. You think about it. If that committee were in place right now, we might know precisely and exactly who canceled Harris' drug test. Okay, we might also be having a conversation about the limits of high speed chases right here in the middle of the city. Right, there's a lot good that can become of this.
Speaker 1And having the citizen voices in that, because those are the people who are living in the neighborhoods where the cars are screaming by. I think that matters. And again, you know, daughtry could be somebody that says you know, I thought that before I feel like in retrospect we maybe should do it. Mayor Stephen Jones has not spoken on the record on this issue, but this is a great leadership opportunity for him to say you know what, you're right, let's go. Let's do it. Let's do this right. Let's bring the voices to the table. Let's bring the citizen liaisons back. Let's go.
Senator Chuck Younger Interview Begins
Speaker 4Gentlemen, if you're listening to me right now, I think I speak on behalf of a lot of people in the city. Come on board with this. There's no reason not to do it. And I mean, look, I know I'm a critical guy of a lot of things, but this is a great opportunity. And I just want to say come forward, do something. It doesn't have to be your idea for it to be a good idea, because right now, mayor Jones, you're hiding like Biden, and it's not a good look. Oh, come on. Well, it's true. It's true. Today we're pleased to have in the studio Mr Chuck Younger, who represents Mississippi Senate District 17. That is most of Lowndes County, parts of Monroe actually about half of Monroe, looks like.
Speaker 2No, excuse me, it's not, it's southeast little corner, just a corner of that.
Speaker 4So you've got some of Clay and some of Octobahaw as well.
Speaker 2No, I've got a little bit of the Hickory Grove box, I think is what it's called, in the eastern part of Octobahaw County and then the southeast corner of.
Speaker 4Monroe Gotcha, those maps are just wild. They're a problem.
Speaker 2I didn't draw them.
Speaker 4Well, you've been on a bunch of committees. You've been chair of many of those committees agriculture, county affairs, energy, finance and most recently, you have been appointed to the chairmanship of the 18-member Highway and Transportation Committee. Congratulations upon that and welcome to the show today. Well, thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 1Well, yeah, I want to start where he just left off. I was looking through all of the committee appointments that you have and that reads like a resume for somebody running for governor in 2017. You taking the plunge, chuck no.
Speaker 2I've got too many grandbabies. I've had some folks that want me to run for ag, commissioner. I said, look, if I was younger I would, but I've got you are younger. Well, yeah, there you go, there you go, but I've got six grandbabies and I just love spending time with them and I wouldn't be able to do that if I ran for anything higher than and I'm pretty, I'm about as high as I want to get in political arena.
Highway Funding and Transportation Issues
Speaker 1All right. Well, I want to start with the highways and transportation. Highways, transportation. Every time MDOT comes to Rotary or Exchange or talks on any of the Civic Club circuit, it's all the same we don't have enough money for our needs. We don't have enough money for our needs. Yes, we're getting more money, but it still isn't filling the hole. How much is to that and what are y'all doing about it?
Speaker 2You know, Zach, I'm not exactly sure, but in my opinion I don't really know who's telling the truth, to be honest. But there's a good guy that's running it, Brad White. I trust Brad, but you know, if I don't see people out there working on our highways 24-7, something's wrong. I think they need to be working 24-7, because I'm traveling up and down the highways a lot and there are spots that are just terrible, and even your good highways you can see them starting to crack and becoming bad, and a lot of people say our highways are pretty good.
Speaker 4I'm one of those people well, just compared to like mexico, and yeah, well, we're not in mexico now.
Speaker 2We're in mississippi and we're right there in the middle of the southeast. And when I say 24 7, I mean there needs to be contracting work being done 24 7 they at nighttime.
Speaker 4These local projects are just out of hand. I've looked at them. Most of them have around a $20 million price tag, including the resurfacing of 82 here, even just that work that they did on the bridge on 182 down there. We're looking at $5 million just for that. Why is this stuff so high?
Speaker 2Well, concrete's high asphalt's high labor's high Labor Equipment is out of the ballpark. Everything's expensive. What about the-? And there's a few contractors. There needs to be more contractors. There you go, to give you more competition to bid, and there's not.
Speaker 4So if you've only got two or three bidding as opposed to six or seven, that can be a huge difference in the tag. Correct, yeah?
Speaker 1Where's the focus? Is the bigger problem highways right now, or is it bridges?
Speaker 2Oh, I would say it's a little bit of all. You know, your engineers are looking at some of the bridges and they're closing some of them. I think we've got a couple closed on O'Macon Road that they're supposed to replace. Then there's that one that's off of Old West Point Road, that's going over 82, that they're going to fix where the truck has hit it, right? It's got plywood stuck up on the side. They're going to replace that I get nervous going under.
Speaker 4That is something going to fall.
Speaker 1No, no, no they've you, they've got it you drive a car that's very low to the ground.
Speaker 2I don't think you're going to hit it he can hurry up and scoot up underneath it. Yeah, but it's true it's I think they're going to start on that in september is what the um engineer told me. There was a bad place going over towards starvel on 82. That would just knock your car out of line. It was right there. I think it was the hickory grove exit right there, um oh yeah, I remember when that work happened.
Speaker 2Oh my, gosh, you know, and they finally fixed it and it's nice. You can go 70 miles an hour over it and it won't rattle.
Speaker 1Or 78.
Speaker 2Yeah, 78. Yeah, yeah, but they won't rattle your teeth, but it's, you know, and I think that's why I left. I didn't really want to leave chairmanship of agriculture because my heart's in agriculture. But you know, I see the need for our highways to be fixed more and more, especially when we have young people that are traveling and going to college to and fro. And then we've got all this heavy equipment, the rolls of steel and stuff that are on the highway.
Speaker 4Yeah, that'll chew it up. That'll chew it up. My big thing with these highway projects is I want to get in there and I I want to see it get done and I want to see it opened back up. You look at US-82 between the state line and Tuscaloosa and it's like holy cow. They've been working on that since I was a kid.
Speaker 2That's in Alabama.
Speaker 4That's right, and they're still working on it. They're going around Gordo right there.
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't understand that either, do they just?
Speaker 4pay as they play, or what?
Speaker 262 years old and that's been, like you said, since we were kids. They were working on it.
Speaker 4It seems so crazy. Yeah, I hate staring at those orange cones.
Agriculture Challenges in Mississippi
Speaker 1Please let's not do that here well, you mentioned agriculture and, uh, I mean, you're a farmer. I think we we had a conversation not too long ago about what you've been up to on your farm, but agriculture is such an integral part of the Mississippi economy. You know, small scale, all the way up to the large scale agriculture. What is the future of that right now? Looking, or what is the future of that looking at conditions right now that are coming down the pipe? You've got the, you know you've got the tariff pressure. You've got input costs going up and margins coming down. You know what is the future of a farmer in Mississippi and how can you succeed? How are you doing it? I guess would be a better question.
Speaker 2Well, this year is my first year to not farm since I was 21.
Speaker 1Your tractor would have got stuck and not farm, and you're talking about not putting anything in the ground not putting.
Speaker 2I didn't row crop this year. I still got a few cattle and I'm putting hay up and doing the bush hogging of the pastures and all that mess. But, um, I talked to my father-in-law that I was farming his land and I was trying to get him to go down on the rent and he didn't want to go down on the rent. He said you know, you probably ought to look at not farming a couple years until the prices go back up. And he was exactly right. I feel like I won the lottery this year by not farming. It's tough. If the feds don't help the farming industry, it's going to be bad. And what?
Speaker 1do you?
Speaker 2mean by that, subsidies, whatever. That's the reason why products. That's the reason why soybeans, corn, what have you are so cheap, cheap food and the government has been taking care of row crop farmers just enough for them to get by, just to keep them playing the game. They've got to do something better and I hope trump's tariffs work. Um, you know, talking about climate change, I the rainforest. The world needs to be paying south america to stop destroying the rainforest. To me, that's the biggest thing about the climate change. When they destroy all that rainforest, our weather's going wacky and it gets worse every year that, and we chew up trees here in Mississippi just willy-nilly.
Speaker 4It kind of breaks my heart when I go down a county road somewhere and there used to be these big hardwoods and now it's like a big toothpick salad. They just knock them over for a few thousand bucks.
Speaker 2Looks better than solar panels, though, doesn't it?
Speaker 4I don't know dude. At least the solar panels accomplish something. This is just nastiness and it's hot, like if you're on a motorcycle. You go down there whoom, the hot air just hits you and it's like man, I miss the trees.
Speaker 2Well, you know, the pine trees, they can go in there and clear-cut them and replant them and it's not a bad deal because they grow fast. But you're right, the hardwood if somebody has hardwood land they need to select, cut real, very, very select Strategically yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, strategically. And you know, just do it, because some of the big old hardwood will fall over if you don't go ahead and cut them. But you need to have a good forester to help you select cut on the hardwood. I would not ever destroy and clear cut hardwood. That's just because, yeah, that's hard.
Speaker 1I want to go back to the food. You know, I know we grow a lot of soybeans and grow a lot of corn and things like that, those big row crops but that's not all we eat. I mean, we eat all manner of things and it comes from all manner of places.
Speaker 2Sweet potatoes in Mississippi. That's a moneymaker, okay, very labor-intense though.
Speaker 1You have to have foreign help. Are there, are there? Is there room for maybe small farmers to come in in the um truck?
Speaker 2patch farmers so to speak.
Speaker 1You know, your, your, your small acreage farmers that are, you know, uh, maybe is that, is that a way to to keep people out of the grocery store? And can a small farmer make it in this economy? In your opinion, somebody that has, I don't know a three-acre patch of tomatoes, or they grow potatoes and squash and greens yes, they could.
Speaker 2You know they could make a little money on the side. They're still going to need to have a job. You know a good.
Speaker 1But are they going to have to price their product really out of the market in order to make any money because of input costs and the other?
Speaker 2pressures. You know the Gilmers out there in Caledonia they grow the watermelons.
Speaker 2You know how much those watermelons were a piece this year. How much. I think they were 14 or 15. I think they were 15 bucks a piece and when it first started their people were in line to buy them. I mean they really are good, but people were in line to buy them and you'd pick up one. I had shoulder surgery in June and man, I couldn't hardly pick up one, but now I can, it's getting better. But $15 a piece for a watermelon, I mean people were backed up on the road.
Speaker 4Yeah, I'd pay it, as opposed to going in Walmart and getting that $6 little used to be a sugar baby, not sure what it is now, right yeah.
Speaker 2Really good. And then the sweet corn. You know, if you have a specialty crop, yes, you can make some money. Labor intense though, a lot of labor intense. Labor intense though A lot of labor intense. South America's killing us on soybean trade with China, and the corn too, and I think sometimes they can grow soybeans twice a year. Well, we can only do it once a year, you know, and we're going to have to get back in good standings with China to, you know, to be able to sell to them.
Speaker 4Maybe they need to get in good standing with us.
Speaker 2Well, that too, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Last question I have on the agriculture front.
Speaker 2The state, over the course of many years, has done a great deal to try to protect the catfish industry. Yeah, and labeling it.
Speaker 1Right, yeah, is that working?
Speaker 2because I'm seeing catfish ponds disappear faster than I'm seeing them being built um I'm not, you know, I'm not exactly sure if that's working or not, but yeah, you do see these over here on the right, going towards start wellville and making gravity spot where the mega center that we bought from making gravity.
Speaker 4Well, I know it's a lot of work and if you're not out there on harvest day, the fish can go bad in a hurry.
Speaker 2It can and you know, when you're feeding a bunch of catfish, you know you think about it. I mean, they're pooping and and it builds up and eventually you have to refurbish that lake and it costs more to do that than it does to go out and build a new one right, but I mean it.
Speaker 1It comes back to if we're not farming, then who is true?
Speaker 2true, I mean it and you know a lot of these people. Cattle prices right now extremely high. They've never been this high before. I sold a kill cow the other day that normally would have brought oh, 700 bucks, she brought two grand 2,000. You can sell a calf off the mama cow that weighs around 550, 1,700 dollars unheard of.
Speaker 1And now you have a lot of these people that have jobs, that have just a few cows on the place where they're, they're clearing out, they're selling out can the state do anything to to uh, stabilize, to incentivize more people coming into the farming industry, to make it a situation where you can make it with you know, reasonable labor and reasonable input? Or is it just?
Speaker 2gone. Well, you know, delbert, lieutenant Governor asked me. He said what can we do for the farmers? I said well, Delbert, you know, the only thing I can think of is we can don't tax them if they buy a piece of equipment or a part Other than that. It's up to the feds to help.
Speaker 4Well, that's a lot of money, those parts, oh yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah. So who's producing our food if we're not?
Speaker 2Well, it's.
Speaker 4RFK has an opinion.
Speaker 2Yeah, and he's right about some of that stuff too. Yeah, I believe in that dye that he's. Didn't he get it outlawed?
Speaker 4He's trying to.
Speaker 2The red dye.
Speaker 4Yeah, that one's going. And yellow's next.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, that artificial stuff, you know, I agree with him.
Education and School Consolidation
Speaker 4I want to ask you some educational questions. Do you think that Jason White is going to push for mandatory consolidation? I know you have to work with these people, but For school districts.
Speaker 2Yeah, um, I'm not sure what Jason's going to push. I think everybody's wanting to get on the Trump bandwagon and school choice, expanded school choice.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1Well, what do you think about that?
Speaker 2I'm kind of on the fence on it. I went out, I was looking through my emails and Missy gets on to me all the time for not reading my emails. But, gosh dog, it's a bunch of junk emails and some of them are pertaining to DC, not me in Mississippi. But I got invited to go to Salt Lake City last year for school choice and I was wondering why in the world did I get invited? I told Delbert when I first, when Delbert first became lieutenant governor, he asked me what committees I wanted to be on. I said you know, know, I'd like to be chairman of ag, I'd like to be this and that I said. But please do not, whatever you do, do not put me on education.
Speaker 2and he didn't and and, and now I've got six grandkids and um, you know, I'm, I'm, and that's all people talk about yeah, that's all people talk about and you know it's.
Speaker 2It's hard to make some of these people you cannot make happy on education. You can't give the teachers enough, you can't give the schools enough. But going back to school choice, there was a lady that talked at Republican Women the other day. You were there and she was all about school choice. Being a you know she's a Republican bragging about being a Republican. This Republican that and you know I was the one that brought up I said well, what are we going to do when everybody wants to go to Caledonia or everybody wants to go to new hope? It's going to overload, you know. And um, I can.
Speaker 2Small private school that doesn't have the infrastructure to accept the influx Right, Right and and your private schools are not for school choice, right, because then that'll put them out of business. But, that being said, I'm for school choice if a child has a special need and they can't get it in the school they're in or the district they're in.
Speaker 2And make the money, follow the child. Make the money, follow the child. As far as I don't think that we should pray for pay, not pray well, we do need. That's part of the problem right there. We're taking prayer out of schools, yeah, but I think that we need to, um, instead of the private schools getting the money, I think that maybe give them a little bit of a tax break if they're if they're paying for their child to go to a church school or a private school, maybe giving them a tax break of some kind.
Speaker 4You're talking about the parent. Yes, hey, Chuck, I'll tell you how school choice works in Lowndes County. If you drive north of here and you happen to see an abandoned barn, there's no roof on it. But look for a mailbox.
Speaker 2I can guarantee you there are six kids that go to Caledonia at that address.
Speaker 4And people are listening. They're like David shut up. Don't talk about that.
Speaker 2It's a problem though, is it not? Oh, it is. It is yeah.
Speaker 1So, going back to the school consolidation thing that David brought up, I mean, if that ends up being a thing and that comes here, what happens if the edict is Lowndes and Columbus need to consolidate, and where are you going to be in that discussion?
Speaker 2I'm going to walk. I don't know that's a good one. You know, uh, octavia Hall County School. You know Starkville, octavia Hall County School District. They.
Speaker 4Well, you've got fewer people having to monitor how much toner is in the gestetner right. Yeah, the administrative stuff.
Speaker 2Right, it would cut down on, you know, some of the administration expense.
Speaker 4And that's what has most people ticked off about it.
Speaker 1Yeah, how do you get a situation where you've got an edict for Columbus and Lowndes to consolidate? You know that that's not going to be popular in some corners. And how do you make that work? How can you actually execute something like that, if it does come to it?
Speaker 2Zach, that's a hard question. I have no answer for it. I remember we had Dr Labatt here and I loved her. She was great, she was doing the best she could and somebody was asking her about the D school and she said well, you have D schools when you have D families, and that says a whole lot. Rest her soul. She was a good person and she's no longer with us and I miss her a lot. She was a smart, smart lady. You know, as far as consolidating Lowndes County School District with Columbus School District, boy, I don't know, I'm sitting on the fence, politician, I would be. What about the MSMS question? I mean, I'm all for them staying here in a gated, fenced-in campus. Why would you mess with something that ain't broke Right? I mean, we've got great teachers. You let the teachers vote on it at MSMS.
Speaker 1I guarantee you they're going to want to stay at the W. Well, I mean being honest, is this, that's an opinion that is not exactly the same as the Lieutenant Governor's, is it?
Speaker 2I don't know where Delbert feels about that. Of course he's probably going to. I don't think he's, I don't think he's real big time on them going to Octavia Hall County School District, especially if we've got to give them what is it? The money they want to build a new dorm for the Octavia Hall County.
Speaker 4School District Like a quarter billion or something.
Speaker 2I don't think that's going to happen. I mean, we don't mind spending money on Jackson, the city of Jackson, to help our capital city, but we don't need to spend money on another city that's rich, like Starkville.
Speaker 1Okay, I think Lynn Spruill might actually disagree that they're rich.
Speaker 2I think she'd say they're doing okay. If they're doing okay, they're rich.
Speaker 4You know, the MDE board of directors came for kind of a surprise visit on Wednesday. I heard about that. What were they doing? Were they like scoping out their territory? I mean, because they've already made a decision, do you think it's possible they've maybe thought about reconsidering, given all the public input?
Speaker 2Well, they better be, because I don't think it's going to fly in the Senate or the House.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, I mean, that's why I was going to ask too is how was that recommendation from the State Board of Education received by? I mean, I know how you received it, but how was it received by your colleagues in the Senate and what you know of how the House took it?
Speaker 2You know, I think people, most of the people, were looking forward to just getting out of there and I don't think they've. I don't talking to the senators that I know and some of the representatives, they're not for it.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2Only the people that live over there, like Rob Robertson, representative Robertson, bart Williams, my friend, he's for it. Of course they're all for it over there, but I don't think the rest of the state's going to be for it.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2MDE didn't fund MSMS. It's their fault that MSMS is living in squanders or whatever. And the W was doing. All they were doing was just trying to help. And, of course, when I had a meeting with the lieutenant governor, delbert, and President Miller Nora, you know Delbert said you know y'all need to be separate, y'all need to be a separate entity. Instead of helping MSMS, the W helping them.
Speaker 4Because it makes the numbers misleading when you read them.
Speaker 2It does. And I told President Miller I think that we should give some property on the campus to MSMS so they can have it to call their own, so they can't move it. But I'm just a simple old country boy but I think that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1Well, a lot of people believed and frankly I was one of them that the MSMS move was sort of the Trojan horse to cripple the W, to make it an easy target to become a facile state for MSU. What do you say on that?
Speaker 2Look, if my wife's a W graduate and boy, I got to be careful about this. My wife's a W graduate. My aunt was a W graduate, Many W graduates. Those ladies will get on you like white on rice if you say something bad about the W. But I had several people who graduated from the W ladies. They came over to me and they said, look, Mississippi State should take over the W and keep the W going, Because ever since we allowed boys to go on, men to join the W campus, it just hadn't been the same. I've had several ladies tell me that Now they won't come out and say it, Will you? No, I'm not, won't come out and say it Will you?
Speaker 1No.
Speaker 2I'm not going to come out and say it, but if it came down to it, if Mississippi State wanted to take over the W and keep the campus alive and invest in the campus and keep MSMS on the campus, I might would have to be for that. Okay, if it saved the campus, you could call it Mississippi State, the W campus.
Speaker 4Tips at cdispatchcom. Yeah well, you know.
Speaker 2I mean the W has a lot of good and they're out of debt. There's no debt on the W. You ask the other colleges that the W went along with Southern Mississippi and told the MSMS students that graduated they had full scholarships. Do you hear that from Mississippi State or Ole Miss? No, they take care of more of the out-of-state students than they do our own in-state students. It seems like care more of the out-of-state students than they do our own in-state students, it seems like. But you know, I would like to see the W do well and stay like they are and keep MSMS on the campus.
MSMS Relocation Controversy
Speaker 1Okay, well, last thing I have for you. I know one of the things that happens toward the beginning of every calendar year is you've got the local governments coming to all of the legislators with a wish list for their appropriations and you know the amphitheater's been on the list a bunch and with you know, mixed results. There's some other things that Columbus and Lowndes County have wanted over the years. What do you think's coming next year and what of that do you think is viable? City and county.
Speaker 2Gosh, zach, you know I'll just have to look at their wish list and see if I agree with it. I've gotten a little bit of money for the amphitheater for them. It still hasn't opened. 137 days to go, mayor, I think I was able to get $3 million for the Columbus Redevelopment Authority and they tell me something's fixing to happen. It needs to hurry up and happen. I think we need I won't say I think we need, I don't, I don't. I won't say I think we need Republican or Democrat. I think we need some, some people that are um good taxpayers building on top of Burns, bottom down there on the hillside. I think we need some good, nice housing in there that'll pay taxes. That'll help Columbus big time. It'll pay taxes. That'll help Columbus big time. An amphitheater does not. If you call the mayor of Brandon and ask him how much that amphitheater has made them money, he'll tell you that it's not making them money. It's not sustaining itself. He will tell you that.
Speaker 1Well, what about the secondary benefits, like the? Sales tax elsewhere, hotels, etc.
Speaker 2In Brandon yeah, Well, you know, we went to the concert. We drove back home that night, okay, oh man, yeah, live a little. Well, we went and saw the Doobie Brothers. We went and saw Train. What else did we go see we?
Speaker 2went and saw somebody else, but it's not a big moneymaker like people think you know Personally. Of course it's too late now, but I loved Under the Bridge. I thought that was unique what we had. But now we've got the amphitheater and I want to see it completed. I'd like to see us get rid of the hotel there, where you'd have parking right next to it Good luck.
Speaker 2He knows he's sitting on a gold mine now Well, you tax him to death, he'll sell Like we did Gilmer didn't, we, didn't we tax, gilmer, you can send an auditor to his house, can't you?
Speaker 2Yeah, well, but um, it's, why was it built in the flood zone too? That's another question. I um, but anyway we've got it and I want to see it completed. I want nothing but the best for columbus. We want, we want things for columbus air boys, air base, columbus, air base families to be able to have fun in columbus and and and, so that you know when we get it completed, when they get it going. I think that'll be a big plus for the families.
Speaker 1What about this regional crime center that they've been talking about? Gussying up their crime lab, getting more monitors and more surveillance, letting other agencies in the area tap into those resources for a fee? Do you think that's something that Columbus can pull off and you think that's something that the state should help them with?
Speaker 2That might be one of your things that the local government needs to ask on their wish list, which it is. I think they wanted a roof repair for the Columbus Police Department for the what do you call it? The lab? Forensic lab. Of course they've got a forensic lab in Starkville. I think the Mississippi Highway Patrol will have one over there, 20 miles away. I don't really understand.
Speaker 4Seems redundant. Yeah, you know, columbus police believe they can police themselves. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2I believe that the Columbus police and the sheriff's department need to work closer together. There you go, I like both, I like both, but they both almost like you need a metro police
Speaker 1almost. You know. Now you're meddling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So what he's saying is he won't commit to consolidating the school districts, but he will commit to consolidating the law enforcement.
Speaker 2No, I'm not saying that either, but I just wish they would work closer together. The crime is unbelievable with our youngsters and you know, when I was in high school if I did something wrong they would tear your butt up, and I think we are missing the boat on being able to enforce discipline on our children.
Speaker 1Well, we appreciate you coming, Senator, and is there anything you want to add before we go to break?
Speaker 2Just you know, hey, pray for Mississippi and pray for our country, because they are. You know things are being a Republican. I think Trump's doing a lot of good things, but you do need to be a little bit kinder on doing some things, and I think being kinder to people, whether you're Democrat or Republican, makes a big difference.
Speaker 1I wholeheartedly agree with that. And when somebody calls me.
Columbus Development Projects
Speaker 2I don't ask them what party they're affiliated with. I just ask them what I can do to help them. And that's more of what we need to be doing in Jackson, because passing another law that we're really not going for sometimes doesn't get it, but when somebody calls you and they need help, you need to make sure they get it.
Speaker 4Anything else we need to talk about today, I think we're good today, David Good show. Well, tell me three things I need to know.
Speaker 1Oh, okay, yeah, three things we need to know. One city prosecutor, nicole Klinkscales, will not have to serve a day in jail for contempt of court after Judge Gary Goodwin modified her sentence last week.
Speaker 4Oh boy.
Speaker 1The contempt ruling still stands and she still has to pay a $100 fine and the city administration is on the record saying that they did not influence that decision.
Speaker 4Okay, I know I'm supposed to just sit and listen to you in this segment, but I've got to jump in there. All right To Ms Klinkscales congratulations on not having to go to jail for a day. But man, we're all wondering what happened there. Did the judge just change his mind, or was there an apology made? I mean, I guess we'll never know right.
Speaker 1We may not ever know, but everybody is adamant that the judge did that of his own volition.
Speaker 4Okay, well, maybe it'll die down and maybe positivity can increase as a result of this.
Speaker 1All right, Well, number two, kloepner Metals is scheduled to break ground in October on a $90 million aluminum processing plant. It will be the first business to locate or co-locate on the Aluminum Dynamics customer campus in Lowndes County. That's over there by the Golden Triangle Regional Airport. Third, it looks like the city's property tax rate will stay the same next fiscal year per CFO James Brigham's recommendation. Year per CFO James Brigham's recommendation. The council gets final approval. But if that holds, if that recommendation holds, it means tax rates for the city and CMSD would stay the same for next year, while the Lowndes School District's tax rate will actually drop. Some Lowndes County Board of Supervisors you're up, let's see what they do now.
Closing Remarks and Show Notes
Speaker 4Yeah, well, I tell you, 53 meals is pretty steep for a municipal school, for a municipal city millage rate compared to other towns. But you know what A lot of it is on the assessor. You know if that value is off doesn't matter what that rate is, you're going to be paying more money regardless. Thank you for joining us today. Please be sure to follow the show and share our stuff. Help get the word out and make our hometown a better place. You can also follow me on Facebook or X at D Chisholm 00. Leave us a public comment, signing off until next week from Catfish Alley Studio in historic downtown Columbus. Your host has been Zach Player and I am David Chisholm. Y'all stay friendly and we'll keep it real.
Speaker 3Opinions expressed on this show are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the Commercial Dispatch.
