How A Local Advisory Group Could Shape Retail, Housing, And Healthcare

We dig into Columbus’ push to form an economic advisory committee—what a true “brain trust” could bring to retail recruitment, healthcare talent, and housing strategy, and how to keep conflicts from tilting the playing field. From identifying missing markets to securing corporate sponsorships for Propst Park and the new amphitheater, we explore what works when advice turns into action.

The conversation shifts to schools, where stability and clarity can be more powerful than splashy promises. With an offer on the table for interim superintendent Craig Chapman, we talk through why quiet, data-driven leadership might finally give Columbus Municipal School District the consistency it needs. Filling critical vacancies, running student and community roundtables, and reporting progress with honesty signal a pragmatic path: set goals, measure what matters, and resist the urge to chase headlines over outcomes.

We also spotlight a civic antidote to political gridlock: Braver Angels, a model for respectful, structured conversations that can help neighbors disagree better and solve local problems faster. Along the way, we celebrate community life—from a packed Handel’s Messiah to decades of service at the Tennessee Williams home.

Transcript

Opening, Sponsors, And Headlines

SPEAKER_01 0:00

From the opinion page of the commercial dispatch, this is Between the Headlines.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

This is Peter Imes, publisher of The Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinion separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government, and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity, and our reporting will always reflect that. And now, between the headlines.

Columbus Mulls Economic Advisory Committee

SPEAKER_02 0:40

This week on Between the Headlines, we have breaking news out of the Columbus Municipal School District as Between the Headlines is reporting that Mr. Craig Chapman has been offered the full-time superintendent position and he is expected to accept that, but we don't know. Also, this week, the City of Columbus is getting ready to create an advisory committee on economic development. Jason Spears says, let's freaking go, y'all. But first, retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over 40 years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. Benton's Maintenance Mechanical makes easy work out of plumbing, electrical, heating, and air conditioner problems. You can book an appointment by phone or online, and rest assured they will show up at the appointed time. Call Bentons at 662-657-2583 or visit them online at BentonsInc.com. That is BentonsINC.com. This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, the locally owned bank that makes decisions right here at home by people who understand the needs of our community. That means local decisions, local support, and folks who care if your kid made the team. At Bank First, we're not just bankers, we're neighbors and friends. Whether you're buying a home or starting a business, or just need someone to explain what APR actually means, we're here right down the street. Stop by your Bank First branch or visit BankfirstFS dot com to learn more. BankFirst is a member of FDIC and Equal Housing Winder Bank N MLS 454063. So, Zach, as I hear it, the City of Columbus is getting ready to put forth an advisory committee. That's the word that's being used, and that committee will be focused on economic development. And this came out in their last work session. What did we learn about this?

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Yeah, so they started the discussion on it. They certainly haven't formed it yet, but uh started the conversation to get people thinking about members. Of course, Jason Spears, who uh in conjunction with the mayor, kind of brought this forward. I think uh uh Jason already has a list of of people that he wants, but uh uh other council members are now going out and talking to people about who would be interested and who would be effective on a committee like this. And think they're planning tennis members?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Essentially it's sort of a for Columbus, by Columbus uh way of getting economic development tips, information, ideas to the council or to the uh city's finance committee uh more directly.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

And when you say economic development, you are referring specifically to retail and commercial this time?

SPEAKER_04 3:47

Uh I mean maybe uh because we've got industrial covered. Yeah, well industrial is covered, but yeah, we're talking about retail, we're talking about they they made a lot of uh uh references uh yesterday to health care, recruiting doctors, different things like that. They made some references to housing strategies as far as uh getting professionals to move to town, which is kind of a big deal right now because you've got the mayor across the river who is actively saying the ADI folks are gonna be living in Startville. And so, I mean, that competition is going to be significant.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

And we've got to build them a place to live.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Right, right, right. So Jason refers to this as a brain trust, a a brain trust of people who are in different fields that are, you know, strategic fields in uh maybe knowing what needs to happen next.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

So go ahead. When he said brain trust, I I read that and I was wondering, okay, so is this going to be an advisory committee? Is it going to be uh a group of people that gather together information? What I read was uh missing markets versus saturated markets, that is to provide uh relevant info to potential investors. Yeah.

What The Committee Would Actually Do

SPEAKER_04 5:09

Uh well, I mean, relevant info to the city's finance committee, so they can uh form recruitment strategies, retention strategies, uh you know, other sort of policy-driven uh strategies for uh uh moving the city forward. Uh all of that's kind of nebulous and sort of ambiguous right now because the committee hasn't been formed, the plan hasn't been made. But the general ideas, I understand it, is if you've got your uh if you've got your best connected realtor, your best connected hospitality food person, you've got your, you know, somebody with the hospital or or in healthcare, you've got different other uh entities, uh a franchisee, uh big box retailer, a mom and pop retailer. You've got all of those people in a room who not only have their own experiences, not only have their own resources, but have connections and a network of their own that they've built themselves over time. And they've got a knowledge of what works and what doesn't because they've seen it. Hey, we tried this in our own in our own lane, it didn't work. This worked better. So if they're saying those things to the finance committee, the idea is with that information or you know, anecdotal or data, they can then plot a course forward where we're like, okay, so we've identified an oversaturated market. We don't need to, we don't need to go after this business because it's going to undercut these other three. If we're going to get a doctor into town, the realtors that have shown houses to the last three doctors that came to Baptist but maybe moved to Startville, why? What is that information? What did what were they told? And how can we address that?

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Yeah, what do we lack here? Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

What do we lack here that we need to add? And and and so that's the general idea behind it as I understand it.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Well, you open a little bit of a can of worms there. I like the idea, don't get me wrong. Um, first off, this is something that Columbus has not had. We've got a chamber, but we've not had this. A little different. And you know, it's it's a step forward. It's not something that Mayberry's had, right? If you you know, right. We're we're gonna do it and we're gonna do it right. It's in the very early stages. So that's why I bring up the canon where it's the idea stage. Okay. You've got to really be careful who you put on this. You've got to get people that love our town and um are very low risk for potential conflicts of interest because you know you mentioned yourself just a moment ago, there might be certain businesses that are quote unquote oversaturated, therefore, we may not want to pursue that particular business. Well, watch out because competition is good. And sometimes businesses just suck and they need competition, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:21

So this is something we and I seriously doubt that anybody on that count uh on that committee, and and that was one of the things that I was thinking uh yesterday as I was writing the story and doing those interviews. I doubt that anybody on that committee is going to be uh uh uh a big advocate for getting a competitor into town. And and so there's always gonna be that dissenting voice of we don't want that thing that's gonna compete with me, uh when you might actually.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

And you've also, you know, hope you're not getting folks on there that are gonna come up and say, you know, we need more Mexican restaurants and maybe This isn't the starble economic advisory a dispensary or two, you know. Well, Zach, I'm sitting here thinking about all this, and and you know how my mind works, and I'm always worried about the boogeyman out there, about the communist out there, about the big government guy out there, uh communist, Nazi, whatever you want to call them.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Somebody two very different things, but whatever, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Okay. The the crony out there about that. The guy that or the gal that has his or her business here in town, all right, and and I talked about it a little bit ago, but but I mean seriously, I have heard people complain about businesses that want to come into this town, uh, but then for whatever reason they get a little bit of a backlash or a little bit of a discouragement, and then who ends up suffering? The consumer. Well, right because competition wasn't wanted, okay? And yet we are capitalistic and that's what we embrace. That's why I say to you, there are some businesses out there that just suck. Okay?

Conflicts, Competition, And Market Reality

SPEAKER_04 10:05

And they need to I'm not gonna run down anybody's business, but I will offer this to your point, uh, because I agree that you, you know, and we touched on this a little bit already, that you know, people on this committee are not going to be Jonesing for uh people to come in here and compete with them. They'll be fine with maybe somebody coming in and competing with the other guy on the committee, but not not not me, not me. And so the example that I'm gonna give here is I wonder if this committee had been formed two years ago and was operating, you know, according to how this is most probably gonna go, with tractor supply here, with the co-op here, with uh other farm supply stores here, does rural king is rural king here or is Kmart still empty? And those are the questions, uh the hard questions that the city's gonna have to ask itself, yeah. That this economic development advisory committee is gonna have to ask itself uh if it's gonna be effective is are we going to keep buildings empty to keep people from competing with us since we have the ear of the government now? And that that uh that's a very real danger, um, especially in a small town.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Because how would we feel if uh won't call any names, but if some of those competition businesses got together and had stopped Rural King from coming in here, it'd still be vacant. That's your point, right?

SPEAKER_04 11:36

Yeah, that's my point. And and to what end? Like I went through Rural King the other day. It's great. I've been to the co-op here, it's great. And I'm certainly not picking on certainly not picking up the phone.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

But they keep each other's prices in check. Right. Among other things, their customer service. Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

And rural king pays taxes.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Or they're gonna. And that building is not falling down, deteriorated, vacant, and eyesore.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

With churches having ministries meeting out in the parking lot, right? You remember that back in the day? Yes, the Kmart parking lot. That's where it went down.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

Well, uh one of the things that that struck me about the idea, I must say that a few years ago, well, seven years ago, Columbus hired a they got out from under the link for a minute. They piggyback on the county's contract with the link. The contract's like four, four fifty, something like that, and the city pays the county a hundred thousand of that for a board member and some consideration and how things go. But in 2018, they bowed out of that because they wanted to get somebody who would major in retail development for them. So they went and they hired this firm. They kept that firm for a year, they gave them they gave them their premium and didn't really get anything much out of that by way of really data, by way of results. It at least wasn't satisfactory to the council, and they nixed the contract.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Well, it flunked because it wasn't the right point in time.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

Well, maybe. But two, you've also got a um you know, you had a a group of people who were not from here, were coming in working off of commission, and just trying to or working on a contract, rather, and they knew what worked ninety-nine times out of a hundred, but they didn't really know what worked here. And so I think the the advantage that this idea, this this committee has over that is it's gonna be it's gonna be populated by Columbus's own people. And it's gonna be a Columbus-centered focus that's going to have institutional knowledge of Columbus. So that's gonna be a strength of it. A weakness of it that I see or a potential weakness of it. Right now, nobody's really doing this particular thing in Columbus or for Columbus, but it does beg the question why that is. Because are we are we making another committee when things that already exist, infrastructure that already exists, should already be providing this purpose? Like, you know, why isn't, for example, the the chamber doing this? Why isn't, you know, they do pay a hundred thousand dollars for that link board member. Uh the link does provide data to the city upon request. Uh what about that? You've got the CVB board that majors in tourism development. All of these people, I mean, there's only a certain amount of people in Columbus. So you would think that some of these people that would be very qualified members to serve on this advisory council are already on the link board or the chamber board or the CVB. You would think that I mean, the question then is if this isn't already happening with the infrastructure that's already in place, the question is why? Is it communication? Is it uh mission creep? What is it? And so is a new committee the answer to the question? Because I feel like committees are can be sometimes like these studies that you know that Leroy has done over time, and it's like, okay, so here is we've gotten people together, we've we've come up with strategies. Lownds County Foundation gets together, comes up with strategies on how to make the community a better place. These people, all acting in good faith, come up, they present binders of information, anecdotal and data-driven, and they hand it to them, and the mayor and council say, Oh, thank you very much for this.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

This very expensive binder. Yes.

Rural King, Redundancy, And Using Existing Boards

SPEAKER_04 15:54

It goes on a shelf. I feel like um while I don't think that maybe from the outset this would be the case, I think that there's a very real possibility, if this committee is redundant, that it ends up very much like all of the rest, where okay, well, we start doing something else, or we're out operating in good faith, but we're not getting the results because the city council isn't implementing the changes that are being suggested. There's infighting among the people over whether we should get an you know, another this or another that, and so now there's turmoil. And you know, there's just all kinds of ways that this can go, and you wonder if you don't just better leverage your existing infrastructure for this.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

It sounds to me like perhaps the city of Columbus might want to do like the Baptist Church does and just form a committee on committees, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:54

You know, I I was in a church that uh we didn't have uh we didn't have enough food for a potluck one time. The preacher got really mad, and it's one of those d direct democracy Baptist churches I grew up in. Uh so we didn't have enough food for a potluck, and in a business meeting, the the church formed and appointed members of a fried chicken committee, and their responsibility was for every potluck they had to go to Kentucky fried chicken in town and buy enough to where if uh the rest of the membership gold bricked on homemade items, there was enough to eat. Basis covered. That's right. That's right. Problem resolved. And again, I'm not saying that this can't work, I'm not saying that this can't be effective. I'm just saying that, you know, if you are forming a committee on committees, it it gets a little crowded in there eventually.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

It does. And but I mean to your point, I think it's the second point that you had that that's probably the most relevant, and that is um these different organizations knowing their mission and really bringing their mission into fruition, right? And and they do a good job with that, but um you know a mission statement's very important, and and what's gonna happen is you're gonna have either fresh blood, meaning people that haven't really had leadership roles in the town brought into this newly formed committee. That would be ideal, or you're gonna be using the same old folks and and they get tired of being on every little meeting, you know.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Well, these people are supposed to be people of means, people who are well connected, people who can also invest in the town, which brings us to really one of Mayor Jones's primary uh reasons for wanting this, which he said on the record was we've got fields out at Propes Park. Nice new turf fields at Propes Park. We're gonna have a new amphitheater out there open and running. Uh yes, we are.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Nineteen days from now, we will have that.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

Uh in the reasonably near future, we'll have an amphitheater that is out there complete and running, and no corporate sponsorships for any of the above. And so he's wanting to he's wanting to help l uh he's wanting this committee, whether from their own pockets or from their connections or from their advice, to better leverage opportunities to get big names on those facilities.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

So I was reading the um the paper's article on this, and it had mentioned sponsorships.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Sponsorships for the stage at the amphitheater, sponsorships for the fields at Propes Park.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Okay, signs up at various places.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Like Greenaway Pools Field. If you're listening, Mayor, give them a call.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Have to chew on that one for sure. Uh sounds like more work would be on the way if we did that, but um Okay, well that answers that question. Um one thing that that Spears said that had me scratching my head a little bit is he said he was looking at the long term, which was great, and he was wanting to quote galvanize ourselves through tax collections and other things that we can capitalize on as a community. Can you translate that for me?

SPEAKER_04 20:18

I'll do my best. Um I mean obviously if you've got if if you've got a solid plan for housing, obviously if you've got a solid plan for retail development that is working. Um obviously if you're implementing uh uh tourism through that effectively, if you're doing all those things, it's gonna it's it's gonna raise your tax base. It's gonna it's it's gonna stabilize your tax base. Um and as far as the other things, capitalizing on what we have, it's these people who are here and have means and have ideas and and have experience, have knowledge, and can get us in the right rooms at the right time to get the right things. That's what he's talking about, capitalizing on. That was my interpretation of it.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Fantastic. And I think um I think we'll be interested to see how this plays out, um, whether it be a a committee, properly so-called, or just a team effort for advisory purposes, because I tell you, the people out there that complain about our town, this or that, it usually ties back somehow with retail and commercial. And so when I hear this, I get excited, it sounds like a great step forward.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Right. And and and and to to piggyback on that, and I think where the we've talked about what the potential weaknesses are, I think the primary strength here is the willingness of this council to put the or to try to put the right people in the room. Because Columbus historically has gotten a lot of advice from Uncle Larry or their brother-in-law Billy.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Does he write for the opinion page on a case?

SPEAKER_04 21:58

Or their or their or their best friend and or or possibly, you know, uh campaign coordinator who can also build things. And I think that this is a step away from the from from from that uh pattern that could be very, very good for the whole town.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

So it's got a big element of volunteerism, volunteerism, and philanthropy.

Sponsorships, Tax Base, And Long-Term Goals

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Right people in the room who have the right information and are willing to say the things that need to be said.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

All right, friendly city. Let's get up and go. You are listening to Between the Headlines.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

The Good for Business Podcast features interviews, tips, and tricks from owners, operators, and innovators. Here are the inspiring stories of growth and life lessons from guests in Mississippi and around the world. Hosted by entrepreneur, fundraiser, and real estate broker Colin Krieger, the podcast is based right here in the Golden Triangle community.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

All right, so fresh on the press today. We have being offered to Mr. Craig Chapman, who's been the interim for quite some time for the Columbus Municipal School District, a$160,000-ish contract, uh, which is only the length of 18 months. That's correct. We have no confirmation of his acceptance of that contract, but as of record time, that is where it stands. So what do we know, Zach?

SPEAKER_04 23:26

I mean, you you just pretty well nailed it. Kind of a shorter term than normal. Um but that does end it does end in June 27, which would be the end of a school year. So that that that part of it makes sense. 160 is in there for you know what other superintendents have have made in the case.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Yeah, that's commensurate pay. That's not low balling. Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

So um I like this move and I hope he accepts. Uh and all signs point to he will, but uh like I said, like you mentioned, uh, as of this recording, he had not yet. We've gotten uh we've spoken with uh the school board president briefly, but texting back and forth that he uh has asked to talk with the board president a little bit more, but had not accepted as of uh record time. I I like I like giving him the job though, and I hope he accepts. And uh I'm gonna tell you why. Uh I want you to think about the most embarrassing thing that has happened in his interim tenure during the time he's been in. In the aggregate, he's been the uh interim several times, but in the aggregate it's been almost as much time as some full-time superintendents have been in their spots for Columbus Municipal School District over the last ten or fifteen years. Tell me tell me the bad news.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Well, I can't think of any.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

So perhaps no news is good news. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Well, I mean, you've got quiet leadership, you've got stable leadership, you've got leadership that knows the district. He also was given a uh pretty significant list of things that he was supposed to do during his interim. The interim superintendent goals and expectations that I have a copy of uh right in front of me here. He uh uh when he became interim, there were uh uh uh an egregious number of administrative and teaching positions that were unfilled. Most of those have been filled. Um uh he's got round tables going with the community, he's got roundtables going with his uh own students. Uh the round the student round table has got the uh high school students talking to the food services people trying to improve the cafeteria.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

I mean, well, the first two things you mentioned there are the uh primary roles. I mean, getting good teachers. That's the apex of what needs to happen.

SPEAKER_04 26:07

And I'm I'm wondering Well, I mean, and there are some of these things that are on these goals that uh take longer than six months to do. But his report last night, he's made progress on each and every one of those and the ones that could be accomplished in six months. Um Robert Smith, the board president, says, yeah, we're satisfied with that. Uh we're satisfied with those having been accomplished.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

People may be a little worried, you know. Think about um, you know, for us Mississippi State fans, we hired our interim as the full-time guy, and he went four and six, which was uh not too great, even though he was a great defensive coach. And so there's gonna be those out there that have the question defensive coach. Yeah, well, there you go, because it because he's a decent guy, and and and there's that. But um, so what kind of leadership are we looking at here? That's gonna be the big question. It is is he gonna be someone who comes in and and micromanages things and somebody who comes in and you know uh grants uh clemency to grievances for football players who were, you know, not allowed to play for this, or is he gonna be the guy who has the 36,000-foot view of things, helps set policy, helps set a vision and a goal. That's what I'm wondering.

Superintendent Offer To Craig Chapman

SPEAKER_04 27:28

Uh I mean he seems like a he seems like a pretty stable guy. He seems uh stability's good. Uh you know, very very low-key, not gonna be somebody as I was kind of getting at before, that is uh likely to embarrass the district. I I think that there are two things that happen with Columbus Municipal School District and the idea of the superintendent hire that um uh are you know sort of ill-fated ideas that come from the public, and I think that uh Craig Chapman looks to be the type to stay away from both of these. And I'm and and I uh you know this may offend some people who hear it, but I think that uh on the one hand you've got a group of people in the town that well-meaning, um good faith, but uh they they look at that school district and they they really want that home run hire. They really want that that that sort of fire brand personality that comes in here and is sort of, you know the great redeemer. Yes, come comes on uh comes on to the shore like Douglas MacArthur coming back to the Philippines or whatever. And uh they want to see that because they want good things for the school. They may or may not have people in the school district, but they're in the town, they want the school district to succeed, and the only thing that's really gonna do anything for them on the Columbus Municipal School District superintendent searches is getting that sort of coming onto the shore barefoot and taking over and and and having that sort of personality. Yes. And because they want to see that because they want to see change and they want to see the type of person that can come in there and very conspicuously affect that change. Now, the other side of that is there are people who are maybe more plugged in with the district directly, who want to run that district more directly, who may or may not be on the school board, who want their people to say yes when they're asked a question. And they want when they say jump, they want to say how high. They want that person to say how high. Well, usually those people don't jump so high anyway, and then it it becomes its own problem.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Is that really a thing, though? We've got Robert Smith on there, and he's he's kind of like the Obama of Columbus politics. I mean, there he is, and and you know, he he's saying things, and I think what he says ends up happening.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Well, right, but let's look at the last superintendent we had here. Um Stanley Ellis was a nice guy. He was a very educated guy, he was capable in his own way, but he would give these reports to the board that didn't say anything. Then they would ask him for certain things, and this is something that they publicly uh that they publicly uh raise concerns about. They would say, Dr. Ellis, can you tell us this and this and this with your report? No, I don't have that information. Okay, well can you get it to us this uh can you get it to us next month? Yeah, yeah, I I I I'll I'll see what I can do about that. Next month would come, they would say, Dr. Ellis, do you have that information we asked you for? No, I still don't have it. Whoops. Well, so with this situation with uh Mr. Chapman, he gives reports, he tells the data. Gave a report last night. These were the targets you wanted me to hit, these are the ones that I have hit, these are the ones I have not, this is what I'm doing about the ladder.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Very clear, very concise, very transparent, very sounds a little humble if he's if he's given the data that he did not succeed in.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

And so this is sort of uh a departure from that big home run alpha personality swing and that yes man mentality uh that different people like for different reasons. And you've got somebody who could very easily, very quietly, very effectively, very stably improve that district to his leadership and be somebody who uh has some staying power there. Um now perhaps. Perhaps I at least eighteen months. Yeah. That's what the hope would be. And I hope that we can have him on next week to talk about that. If he accepts a job, uh for sure. We definitely want to have him on to talk about his vision for the district and talk about some of the things with him directly that we're talking about with each other today.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Yeah, I'd like to have him on as well because we're asking a lot out of him. You know, we're asking him, you know, to have the data, to be genuine, to be transparent, to help hire all the right people, and also to be that standard bearer you were talking about. I mean, let me ask you this is he gonna be the guy to throw a parade the next time we get a B rating for the I mean, because that's kind of like storming the field after beating Arizona State, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

And so I'm I think the standard needs to be high, but I mean the data that you've got to work with, you've got to have a starting point and a finishing point. So it's just a lot to ask of a guy. Right. It really is. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

No, and I hope he's equal to the task, and I mean he's he's had a a steady run as interim, and I feel like taking a chance on giving him a chance to do this right and do this with some security of his own in his position is the right thing to do.

Stability Vs. Savior Complex In School Leadership

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Well, Zach, before we close out, um tell me a little bit about this story written by Cadence Harvey. Uh the headline is Tupelo Civic Group fosters conversations across political lines.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

I love this story, and and I love it because uh it's it's uh like a larger, a little bit larger version of what you and I are trying to do here, honestly. Yeah. Um the group is called Braver Angels, uh started in Tupelo. It was uh a Republican and uh uh more left-leaning guy that lived in there, they knew each other, fraternity brothers, I believe they were, and they just started talking about the toxicity of of politics right now and the absolutism that comes with being on team red or team blue. And so they started fostering these conversations, people started coming to, and they would uh instead of trying to persuade somebody to believe the way that they do, they just learn how to talk to each other about different opinions and respect them. And also kind of challenge those people to why do you believe that? Because I think that that's something that a lot of people don't necessarily ask.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

And it's the American way.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Iron sharpens iron. That's right. Without debate, what do you have, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:49

Exactly. And and I think that our debate has gone our political debate has gone so much toward the way of winning and stamping out your competition, and has moved so far away from there's something that I can learn from somebody who doesn't think like I do. I mean, hell David, I've I've I learned things from you on here and in our private conversation. I hope that's mutual, but you're a smarter guy than I am.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Well, I mean No, but I mean the the thing about it is um so many of those issues out there, they're not partisan issues, uh particularly the ones that relate to local stuff, right? I mean, I could go on about that. Um this kind of reminds me of what happened in 2020. Um Lynn Wright, before he passed away, he was talking to me about COVID and how he had had um considered that that that particular thing we were dealing with as a society had become a quote political football. That's what he called it. And I didn't really know what he meant when he said it, but political football meaning we pick a team when we watch sports and we root for that team. Right. And when the ref makes a bad call, if it's in our favor, we don't say anything about it, right? And so that ended up ha I saw it left and right happening with the pandemic. And that's not the only thing. I mean, if we're being honest.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

And uh she asked, are we are we le are we to the left, are we to the right, are we this? And I was like, look, if anybody's being honest with you, the answer is uh depends. Uh if it's not, it depends. If you don't have views that kind of go different places depending on what the circumstances are, then you're not critically thinking. If you're if your team red all the way, you're not critically thinking. If your team blue all the way, you're not critically thinking. And you and I have had conversations on this podcast where things that we might not have been as willing to critically think about, we challenged each other to do that. And has anything bad come of it?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

I don't think so. I mean, we have a lot of listeners and we're we're grateful for all of them. Um some of them are partisans and they're like, y'all just need to end this segment and stop talking. They're probably saying that. Uh but I I think the majority of them out there are really tired of um of my president, you know, and and the things that come out of that and the uh just the the whole culture, if you will, surrounding politics. It's not so much the issues themselves as it is how those issues are presented. And for me, I just want the truth.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

I want things to be based in reality and um try to think independently about them.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

Aaron Powell And the fact that these types of things are starting to pop up now, these sorts of types of conversations are starting to be had, it shows me that there are people, there are more and more people who are are feeling that way. And I would love for there to be a Braver Angels uh chapter in uh the Golden Triangle. I would I would join that tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

So was that uh the family member that was asking you about your political affiliation, was that the Oboist?

SPEAKER_04 38:29

No, no, it was the uh the uh one that's still in high school. But yeah, the Oboist uh brought us to Messiah the other night. That's the first time I've seen that. Good. Just a beautiful, beautiful performance. And and to see that many people come together and uh sing and people watch it. It was standing room only in there.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Uh about 500 people, 400, something like that.

SPEAKER_04 38:55

Yeah, between the choir, the orchestra, and the people who showed up, there were it it was it was packed out.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah, and that's an Annunciation Catholic Church. We've done it every year uh for gosh, I don't have the numbers, but probably 10 years where it is, and then before that it was at First Baptist. Um, Mr. James Allen, the organist, he's been playing that instrument what seems like forever and just does in a phenomenal job. And we've had different conductors come and go.

SPEAKER_04 39:25

Now are you in it?

SPEAKER_02 39:26

I am, I sing tenor in it.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

You say, are you a one or a two?

Braver Angels And Better Political Conversations

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Uh uh well it's it's actually four-part harmony, and so there is no second tenor, second alto, anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

Oh, okay. So it's just SATB straight.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

That's correct. And um you've got your your strings and you've got a couple of horns and opo and you know, timpani right there for the end when you really need it.

SPEAKER_04 39:48

But uh that guy was getting with it. We got a great angle on watching him really on Hallelujah. He was going after it.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Yeah, if you haven't been to Handel's Messiah, I really encourage you to. To put that on your list when you see those banners come up next year, make it happen. Because I'll tell you, to me as a musician, that particular work is not just a piece of music or a piece of mathematical composition that that you know makes notes and sounds. That is a spiritual experience, and I think there's something in that for everybody to enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

I agree, I agree. Also, if you need a tenor, David Chisholm's got you covered because some of those notes in uh hallelujah were up there. And if you were hitting them, you've got a good voice.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

I'll tell you this. I I was not feeling like a spring chicken after that performance. It was something. So, Zach, what are three things I need to know?

SPEAKER_04 40:45

Three things we need to know. The eastbound lanes of Highway 82 will be closed between the Macon and Downtown Columbus exits this weekend so workers can repair and elevate the clearance of the old West Point Bridge that crosses the highway. This is the bridge the big trucks keep clipping on the way through.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Lord have mercy.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

Yep. And they're raising it 10 inches for what it's worth.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

It's gonna be worth a lot.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Now they're gonna crash into the westbound side, I guess. Or that no, it'll be military road and deadgum uh right there at the railroad bridge. Yeah. That thing is awful.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

Well like it's the talk of the town. I yes, I've seen the pictures. But this particular highway stretch will close at 10 p.m. Friday and reopen at 5 a.m. Monday. So they'll be working at a time where at least I won't be having to commute through there.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

I hope they have it done by Monday. God help us.

SPEAKER_04 41:37

All right. Number two, uh the body found November 20th at the old Sanderson plumbing site has been positively identified as 34-year-old Nashika Dybes. However, the preliminary autopsy results say the cause of death is pending toxicology. Dybes evidently had not suffered any physical trauma severe enough to end her life, according to the State Medical Examiner's Office. Her boyfriend, Jamar Hughes, has been charged with Dobbs murder. Number three, a familiar face at the Tennessee Williams home retired Thursday. Carolyn Lowry has been giving tours at the home for the past 14 years and have served as a quiet ambassador for the city. We wish her well.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Yes, thank you, Miss Lowry. That will do it for today. We want to thank all of you for joining us, wishing you a Merry Christmas and a happy holidays. Be sure to follow our show and share it and help get the word out. Make our hometown a better place. Send us your comments tips at cdispatch.com. You can also follow me, Facebook or X at D Chisholm Double Zero. We love public comments. Signing off until next week from Catfish Alley Studio in historic downtown Columbus. Your host has been Zach Player, and I am David Chisholm. Y'all keep it friendly and we'll keep it real.