Covered, Smothered and Only $130,000

Councilman Rusty Greene brings a bold idea to the table: three elevated, 750-square-foot cottages tucked behind a Waffle House, built for folks who want ownership without the bloat. We talk through the real economics of building small along with floodplain design, tree preservation, and the zoning flexibility needed to make infill sing. It’s a clear-eyed look at what “affordable” really takes. The councilman also discusses why this council makes it fun to go to meetings again.

Statewide education enters the chat with a dramatic twist: the House’s sprawling bill dies, largely over private school vouchers. The Senate’s slimmer version lives on with public-to-public portability, cutting the tie between a kid’s ZIP code and their prospects. And then a hard local story: a sheriff’s apprehension dog bites a young girl during a classroom demo. We unpack why that setup was never safe, credit the sheriff’s transparency, and lay out common-sense protocols for future outreach.

Transcript

Opening Banter And Sponsors

SPEAKER_02 0:01

I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about. I'm not asking you to hide anything. Yeah. You know, put it out there. Let the people see it.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

I've never not worked in a hostile working environment.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face. Zach, that's a hard question.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I have no answer for it. From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.

SPEAKER_05 0:29

This week on Between the Headlines, Mississippi House Bill. Also, a child, sadly, is bitten by a police dog at Heritage Academy. We'll talk about that. And Rusty Green, all smiles, is in the studio. We'll talk with him just after the break of where does the City Council really stand on its policy regarding the funding of nonprofits and other related events? But first, retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over forty years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. Benton's Maintenance Mechanical makes easy work out of plumbing, electrical, heating, and air conditioner problems. You can book an appointment by phone or online, and rest assured they will show up at the appointed time. Call Bentons at 662-657-2583 or visit them online at Bentons Inc.com. That is BentonsINC.com. This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi. That means your banking decisions aren't made hundreds of miles away by someone who doesn't know you. They're made here locally by bankers who know your name and care about the community. At Bank First, we're more than bankers. We're your neighbors. Whether we're cheering in the stands, catching up at a local pancake breakfast, or celebrating milestones across our community, we're part of the moments that matter most. Stop by your local Bank First branch or visit BankFirstFS.com to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing Lender, Bank NMLS 454063. All right, welcome to Catfish Alley Studio, where it is T plus 37 days since the completion of the Columbus Anthe Theater. You are listening to between the headlines. Dave Chisholm here across the way from me is Mr. Zach Player, who is the managing editor of the Dispatch. Before we start today, Zach, I've got a question for you, kind of out of the blue. I've just been thinking, is your home on stolen land? What? You don't remember in the Grammys, the the the girl uh Billy Eilish or Elish?

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Oh, I didn't watch the Grammys, man.

SPEAKER_05 3:08

Well, you're better off for it. Hey, Davis Wade Stadium is on stolen land. Okay. And Choctaw Nation is reaching out to Zach Zillman for their NIL money.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

You know about that.

New Regional CEO At Development Link

SPEAKER_05 3:26

Yeah. Also, small talk is not my strong point, nonetheless. So, Zach, before we get into our first topic, we have breaking news just in, and that is the Golden Triangle Development Link has hired a new CEO. And according to the press release, uh this is Ian Vasi. Could be Vasey or Vasey. We don't know how to pronounce it just yet, but straight off the books, he is a national level hire, not a local guy. Um I don't know a lot about him. Do you know anything about him, Zachary?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yeah, I know what I'm reading. I know that uh, you know, he was in Baton Rouge for a time. He was in Corpus Christi and dealt with uh uh they're saying some some fifty billion dollars worth of development uh in Corpus Christi, and he's been uh he's coming here from Oregon, Klamath Falls, Klamath Falls, Oregon. We don't know how to pronounce anything today, but I do know that we're gonna have um uh we're we're gonna have Mr. Vasey in for uh an interview in a couple of weeks and we'll get to uh get to know him a little better.

Meet Councilman Rusty Green

SPEAKER_05 4:38

Well I look forward to meeting him. I know that he has a very expansive resume. He's dealt with ExxonMobil, Tesla, uh steel dynamics, IBM, and quite a few mentions about the United States Air Force, so that could be uh a nice little plug to be specific to this area. He has quite a few endorsements for this particular job. Uh all three county boards, Clay, Lounge, Octobihaw, uh the Lowndes County IDA, the mayors for the city, Startville, West Point, and Columbus. So uh this is a big deal, and we will know more about it as things develop. Yep. Today in the studio we are pleased to have the councilman from Ward 3, Mr. Rusty Green, who also has his hands in real estate. I hear politics and real estate go hand in hand these days.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Well we'll see. But uh no, it's been good. I'm I'm excited about starting something different.

SPEAKER_05 5:35

Well, the our excuse to bring you in here today has to do with these three homes that you are planning on building uh behind the Waffle House, as I understand it. Smaller homes which would potentially make them more affordable. Uh tell us about this.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Well, when you asked me to come, I said, you know, usually I asked somebody with the expertise in something, and I didn't know exactly what you were asking me in here for. So uh this was just an idea that came up. I I saw some little houses. Have you ever been to Ocean Springs? They've got a great little community uh right there in the middle of the town where they use the old FEMA trailers that they had left over, and this guy brought them in and did the.

SPEAKER_05 6:16

The ones that had the formaldehyde.

The Small-Home Plan Behind Waffle House

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Uh I I guess. I know very well might have. Now, I'm not getting into the man's business plan. I'm sorry, but uh all I did was see it when I went to Ocean Springs, and he had laid out these little zero lot line, little small FEMA trailers is what he was using. But I love the idea, and uh I just wanted something new and different. Now I'm not gonna bring in a FEMA trailer, these are gonna be stick built uh right here on the spot, so this is not something you're gonna bring in and set up on blocks. So uh it just kind of got started where in in real estate I've had quite a few people who and I said older when you asked me before, and somehow that turned into elderly. But when I say older, I'm older. You know, I'm I'm I'm 63. So the 60, 65, I've had a lot of people come to me. It says I'm single. Uh there's no reason for me to have a big house anymore. Sometimes they're renting a house that they're not particularly fond of, or they're in an apartment. Yeah, and they're like, I would love to my own house, but you just can't find anything affordable to get into.

SPEAKER_05 7:25

Everything's so big that gets built these days.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

Well, it really is, and there's a reason for that. Um you would think that a 750 square foot house would cost half as much as a 1,500 square foot house, but that's not the case. Uh you still have a kitchen that costs just as much as the other house. You still have a bathroom that costs just as much as the other house. So generally, when you see people who are building houses to sell, to make money, the 2,200 square foot is kind of the where you need to get to. Well, that prices you out of a whole lot of people. So it's not as economical to build these little houses, and that's the reason people don't. But I'm gonna take a shot and and hope that I can make it work.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Now, the word tiny home gets thrown around a lot, and I talked to Nathan, and he said this wouldn't really qualify for that because that's a the that standard is 500 square feet and and and below. So these are not tiny homes by definition, but I guess how do you arrive at 750 square feet?

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Is it the light size or or uh Well, tiny homes generally are on trail on wheels as well, and they're mobile. And that's not what this is. Uh this is a uh a permanent structure uh that's going to be mounted on the ground and it's gonna be there.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

So it's not gonna be on stilts. I know some people are calling about the floodplain.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

I have to build it up. I do.

SPEAKER_05 8:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

I have to I have to build it up so high to get it off. You know, it'd be four or five steps to get into your but that's that's stylish, though.

SPEAKER_05 8:55

That's what they're built. Uh uh down the hill in Burns Bottom, aren't they? I mean, but not because they have to, but just because it looks good.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

Well, I would build these up at least two feet if I were building it on out of the floodplain because of the look. It's a cottage. It's not supposed to be on a slab.

unknown 9:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

So I have to go up a little bit higher because of that. But you know, people bring up the floodplain. Well, I hate to tell you, but about half of Columbus is in the floodplain. If you really want to get down to it. So that can't be a restrictor to where I found. And this lot uh it's got great oak trees on it, and I just like the it was a convenient location, and it's just hard to find a lot that might fit this. I was ready for a new project, ready for something different. And I don't know. We'll try it and and find out if I was on to something, or yeah, I missed that one. Well, uh time or tell.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Well, now have you done any kind of developments like this in the past, or any kind of developments at all uh housing-wise?

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Now you're calling a development. No, I have never built something where it was two or three houses together. Now, I have been involved. My father was an architect here in Columbus for 40 years. So I've been around that my whole life. Probably should have paid more attention when I was growing up. Uh I really uh wish I had at this point. But uh I've been around it. I've built uh I built me a house when me and my wife got married. I built my mom a house, I built my sister a house. When I say I built it, more or less designing it, laying it out. Now I'm not the contractor, I'm not the builder. But uh I have the idea of what it needs to look like and how it needs to flow.

SPEAKER_05 10:29

Aaron Ross Powell Couple things about the location. Number one, uh I say these three houses do well. Is there room for expansion?

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Not at that particular lot.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

Right. All right. And it's behind the waffle house. Do you think Pierre Beard might be interested in purchasing one of those homes?

SPEAKER_04 10:49

I haven't spoken to Pierre in a while. I'll I will reach out and see if maybe he will find it that thing.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Will$130,000 be in his price range, you really?

SPEAKER_04 10:58

I I have no idea y'all are asking me questions.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Well, no, I want to I wanna I want to stop there and I want to I want to I wanna pivot to you threw$130,000 out as just sort of a a sample number when we were when we were talking for the paper, but then you kind of backed us like, well, I don't really want to commit to a number. What what's the range that you're expecting? I know you're not gonna know for sure until you get one built, but what's the price range that you're expecting to move on?

SPEAKER_04 11:25

I'm more hoping the 130, 140 range. I'm still gonna stick on that. Uh you know, a lot a lot changes, uh prices of lumber and materials, obviously. Uh this wouldn't something be something you would have tried three or four years ago, but prices of of materials are down. So it seems to be a good time. And I don't know, we'll see. Uh we'll see.

Costs, Floodplain, And Design Choices

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Now the Waffle House location, I've uh if if I'm following the the and and filling the blanks for me here, that was originally that was the original one you brought to the Planning Commission. Planning Commission says that's fine. Um the council tables it for more information, and then from what I understand, you actually looked for other options for places to do this before winding back around to this place. Is that so kind of talk about that process and your reasoning, you know, kind of how all that worked out?

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Well, uh to be honest, I I'm I'm a big fan of New Orleans and the New Orleans little shotgun architecture. I just love that. And I think it would fit so well in the city of Columbus. And uh there was a lot across from the library that was for sale, and I thought, now that's a perfect place to kind of bring some historical architecture into town and be, you know, this kind of the same model. And um unfortunately the some of the people complained because they didn't know what was going to go in these little houses, and I'm like, I'm not fixing to uh rent these out and just, you know, this isn't a money grab kind of thing. I'm trying to do something nice and neat, but I had to ask permission because to get these little lots, you you can't just buy a lot and build a little house. It just doesn't make sense on the economic side. So you if you get a lot, you ought to be able to put little houses on there with zero lot line and that kind of thing. So you have to go through the the plan. That's exactly right. And that's where you have to ask permission and uh that kind of thing. So that didn't work out. I still hope that maybe in the future it would.

SPEAKER_05 13:28

So it's got to please the Crown to be zoned properly for that to be able to happen. Well, now this isn't zoned properly necessarily.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Well, and but they that's that's something they can tweak as far as you asking, can you rezone this to be a residential? Because nobody's ever asked. And that's just like uh on these lots on the books right now, you're supposed to have 6,500 square foot to build a house. Well, I could put four of these on 6,500 square foot, you know. So we're still kind of going with the 1970s when they wrote this law into where I'm at today, and I'm kind of saying, can y'all kind of bend this a little bit? Can y'all reconsider, not bend it, can you reconsider what you consider uh a big enough lot to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_03 14:11

Well, and and and specifically what you got was uh was a special exception for your planned unit development?

SPEAKER_04 14:18

They that's right. And that's not unusual. People come and ask for exceptions to rules all the time, especially rezoning and something like that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

And and the trees that are the the trees are gonna stay. I mean, you you uh from what I understand, originally you were gonna have 15 feet between the homes, but in order to accommodate some of these trees, stay on the light, they reduce that to 13 feet between the homes.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

No, it's it's got uh uh an old oak that you don't see very often, and it's got a big one in the back, and it just it it was a great little uh lot stuck in this little subdivision that's is is convenient and you know, something I could get in affordable and maybe make this work. It's it wouldn't make sense. My plan wouldn't work if I had to go pay high dollar for a particular lot, I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Now that you've got the uh permit to do this, w you were talking about building them one at a time. When's the first one gonna be done and for sale?

SPEAKER_04 15:20

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, uh you don't exactly you don't exactly start a shovel yet.

SPEAKER_05 15:26

You're asking when it's gonna be a big thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Well the lot is cleared. So we've kind of we've kind of made the preliminary steps, and so it's it's in the works right now. We're we're finalizing the details, and obviously this isn't the perfect time of uh year to start a construction. So, you know, probably in the spring, and then you know, generally it takes five months to build a house. So you know, exactly summer, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 15:49

You've mentioned New Orleans, you've also mentioned floodplain. Um speaking of that kind of thing, I want to uh dabble just a little bit into some city stuff. I uh on the last article that I read that had your name in it, uh you were an honorable mention. At the end of that article, you said, okay, this this is good stuff. Where's the money?

SPEAKER_04 16:11

Well, the this we're going to ask for more money for drainage. Because obviously Columbus has a lot of drainage problems. We're in a flood zone, per per se. And so when when uh the ARPA money came up and uh we started bidding this out, I think the first engineer that came in did this big study and said, Man, y'all have got 48 million dollars worth of problems, you know? Well, we've got four. So, you know, at least it's a start, but we had I butted heads with some uh about how to spend that four million dollars. And I said, since we're not gonna make a whole lot of dent in this problem, maybe we ought to spend this four million dollars to clean out the ditches that we have that some studies say there's 75 percent of your problem is you won't keep your ditches clean. It's not a construction or a flow problem, it's a maintenance problem. And I'm like, well, spend it on that. And oh no, we this is permanent, this is so that's where we kind of butted heads on that.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Well, I mean, and and that's kind of where y'all are coming in now. Uh Kevin is saying that uh maintenance might be the largest problem in this company that if y'all get the appropriation for the for the study, y'all are asking for federal money, I believe, for this study and maybe some implementation of some watershed mitigation. They're seeing in some towns that, you know, 75 percent of their uh system is fine and 25 percent needs either major work or just better maintenance. Is that is that something that you feel like is possibly the culprit here with on those levels?

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Uh I have to uh resort to what Kevin Stafford, our engineer, and and opinion.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

He's saying put cameras down in the mountain. Well that's that's part of the study.

Pricing, Timeline, And Zoning Hurdles

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Yeah, that's how they do the study. And and we also are gonna have a study that uh there's gonna go around every street in Columbus, and you know with new technology today, they literally just ride down the street and it will tell you the condition of the street, it will tell you the age, it will tell you the sidewalks, what it what needs to be replaced.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

It's gonna pop up on the screen. Let's just get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

This was not repairable. No. You know, I was gonna bring up being an optimist instead of a pessimist, Dave. So I'm glad you kind of jumped in there like that. But it will it will it we can go to the uh street signs, you know. It'll say you've got a street sign here that needs to be replaced or straightened up or whatever the case may be. So we're getting ahead of this, and and with the money coming in for uh repaving the streets, I can uh we've made big progress and uh fixing a pave again, and I hope that uh we're on the right track that in, you know, this is you know how government works, nothing is fast. But I hope that in the near future we'll we'll have a plan and have something in in in the works that'll get this thing worked out so that we're on track.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

This term seems a lot it seems a lot different, feels a lot different from last term, specifically for you. And and uh last term you were, you know, you you were the voice of dissent, the lone voice of dissent in in a lot of cases, uh that just that's that was just sort of what happened. And now it it now it's different. And I w I want to uh discuss with me a little bit what last term was like, what's changed this term, and and kind of what your outlook on what this council can do, what what your outlook is on that.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Um I'm very pleased with where we're at. Uh the new council gets along, there's no hidden agendas, there's no arguing, there's no personal vendettas, there's there's it's just it's working like it should. That's fantastic. Well, and the like round of applause just to hear I'll have to say I'm I'm I'm very pleased that when it came up for re-election, uh I I kind of questioned. I said, I d I don't I don't think I can do this again if it's gonna be like it was the four years before my first term, and realized that no, it's gonna be different. We're gonna have a new mayor, we're gonna have quite a few different council members, and things are gonna be better.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Well, really, what was what was what was going on last term from your perspective? Oh.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

No, no, I I don't know how to describe that. I I think there were a lot of people who took advantage of the fact that they knew they had a majority that they really didn't need anybody else's approval or suggestions. Well. And so they kind of had their agenda and they pushed their agenda, and if you weren't in it, then so be it.

SPEAKER_05 21:04

But that's kind of changed now to the point that you're kind of a swing vote. Like we don't know what Rusty's gonna say until he opens his mouth. How's that working for you?

SPEAKER_04 21:15

I don't know that I'm a swing vote, but I I do feel like at least my voice gets heard. And we talk, uh this new council, we talk, and and it's very uh it's a pleasant uh working environment. And I respect what they say, they respect what I say. We're not always going to agree, but there's no agendas, there's no hostility. I think we're all six of us working toward the same thing for the for the betterment of Columbus, and it's very refreshing. And I don't hate going to city council meetings on Tuesday night. Well, I'm glad to hear that. It is. It's very positive. And and It's going to take time, and there's things we still have to improve on, but we're definitely heading in the right direction. And uh Mayor Jones is a very calm, level-headed leader, and he does his thing and works with us, and we get together and do our thing, and uh, I think it's gonna work well.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Why can't the council this council has has it has done a lot already. It's gotten on the same page on a lot of stuff, it's gotten a lot of consistency in the way that it does business and discusses things and in the votes that it takes. But one glaring place where that hasn't happened is the ongoing issue with not having a policy for uh the nonprofits and not having a policy for the facility use that is codified, consistent, and everybody knows what we're doing. Y'all y'all have asked y'all have asked Miss Garrett to do that. She has presented something to y'all now twice that would go to that end. Y'all haven't voted on it yet, and yet y'all have lifted moratoriums on your advertising funds twice and then put the moratorium right back.

SPEAKER_06 23:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

And so I just like what's going on with that, and why is that a particularly tricky issue? Because that looks very much like something that would vex the last council that you guys have handled far more uh tricky things than this.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Okay. Uh that's just part of the process, and we do have to get better. Uh uh we had the little retreat out at uh Plymouth Bluff. Plymouth Bluff, and something came up. I can't exactly remember what it was, but it was like, okay, here are our three options that we need to discuss.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

It was this.

Drainage, ARPA Funds, And Maintenance First

SPEAKER_04 23:52

And I said, okay, how about we discuss it and we vote on it right now? Because I'm gonna have to tell you, this is gonna come up and we're gonna be three months down the road, and we're gonna say, we need to have a we we're there, we're to that point. Let's make a decision. Well, we need to discuss it, and we need to make well, we're to that point. So, yes, that does get frustrating, and we have to do a better job of saying, here's what it is, let's talk about it, even if it takes a long time during this session to talk about it, but let's come to a decision and say that's our decision, because we'll kick something down the road now. That's what we do.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

But uh but I mean, why is that happening with this? What is so tricky about this situation for you? Because and just for for the context here, uh let's just talk about the nonprofits. This all came to a head when Mr. Donnell Briggs with the with that Saving the Youth program wanted to get city sponsorship to send kids off to a camp. Uh well, y'all told him no. Council put a moratorium on these sort of walk-up requests, and then started talking about, okay, well, so how are we going to do this moving forward? How are we going to codify this to where we don't have this problem anymore? What about an application process, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? All those things have been discussed several times, never been voted on.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

What are you exactly asking me? Why does it take so long to do that?

SPEAKER_03 25:17

Yeah, why is this why is this issue such a sticky.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Well, it it is ju it just is. I mean, for example, the last time was the uh Mayor Youth Council. Well, that's basically a sponsorship of the U.S.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Yeah, why isn't that already in the budget?

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Yeah. Well, they never came and asked. This was something that it's just gotten stronger and they just wanted to go to this, so it just came up.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

And it's like$3,000 and some odd dollars.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

It is. But it's they're good ambassadors for the city. Okay. They do a good job, and that's part of what we need to do to uh advance future leadership and get them involved and also support the city.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

But I I don't think anybody would argue that that particular thing, or the Martin Luther King Day event that the city has been a sponsor for forever, is the type of thing that you would use that money for because it brings into good positive notice the city or whatever the legal language is.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

It's just such a gray line, though. Zach, you know, there's there's some people that come and absolutely we're working with the youth. And well, who doesn't want that? Absolutely. Thank you for volunteering your time to help the youth of Columbus. But if we allow that, then we're gonna have 15 others in line with their handout.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

And you're eventually tell somebody no. Well, I mean, you've got another request that y'all have tabled twice for uh Kabir's legacy and leadership thing that's coming up on the 20th. How y'all have tabled that twice. How's that vote gonna go if uh and how's Rusty's vote gonna go on that when it comes up next Wednesday? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Yeah. We I I I can't promise you how that's gonna come up, but that's that's a that's a big thing. And you know, we have all these festivals. Well, they're great for the city, they're great for the community, but they're not really bringing people into the community. You know, if you're talking about, well, let's spend money to help bring in tourism, that's one thing. Is it good for the community to get together and and have a festival? Yes. But is it should be on tax dollars uh on the tax dollars to do that because you're not actually bringing anything into the city. These are local people, you know, for the most part. You're not having visitors from out of town come and eat and stay. So it's it gets tricky. There's a lot of people, and a lot of them have worthy uh projects. And it's just it's very hard to weed through it. But our biggest deal, I'll speak for myself, my biggest deal is when you come to a city council meeting and you ask, and we have to sit there and discuss this at a city council meeting. This there ought to be a process of where you've applied, we are perfectly aware, this committee that we've set up has gone through all this, and here is their recommendation. You know, that's the process we're trying to work through to make this work a little better.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Okay. Well, how come I mean that seems like it shouldn't take four months to put together.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Or four years. Right. No, I I I agree with you. I you know, it's just uh sometimes we don't make things priorities and say that's my that's my thing. I I kind of like to have a list and you put it down and you work the plan and you mark it off your list and you go on to number two. We just we just don't have a list. We got a whole lot of things going on, but none of it gets finished. So I've actually made the joke get me a four by eight dry race board and let's sit down as a counselor, and we're gonna put something on the board so I can point and say We haven't done that yet.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

We haven't done that.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

We have a building in East Columbus that the city owns that was the old dialobus, that the side of the building had fallen down years before I got on council. And then I found out it's ours. What are we gonna do? Well, we need to tear that down, okay? This is four years. We have been discussing this for four years. And in my mind, okay, you make a decision, you tear down the building, what's the plans? Okay, boom, boom, boom, and you go tear the building down. It's there should not be something that takes this long to get done.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Okay. And you all ended up tearing part of that building down.

A Calmer Council And Culture Shift

SPEAKER_04 29:29

Correct. Well, the the original plans, and we've gone back and forth, is whether to spend money to renovate a building, do we really need it, or just take the whole thing down. But it's an eyesore, and uh we have to do our part to clean up that part.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Okay. Well, uh one more question going back to the uh events, uh, and then I wanted to ask about the facility use too. Um uh Mayor Jones's hang up with that seems to be run everybody through the CVB first, and then the city should only catch the difference. Do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_04 30:04

Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. Uh you know, that's a that's a good uh a good starting point, is that if they're bringing in convention and visitors bureau stuff, visitors to the city, well, that should fall on the Convention and Visitors Bureau to fund that. That's what they're for, is to bring people into the city. So that would be the first gap. And if their answer is no, why is it no? Because you don't have the money or you don't think it actually is worth it, and then come to us. But let's get that out of the way first. I do agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Okay. And then talking about the facilities, this last out thing I'll ask you about any of these subjects. But we're talking about like the Trotter, Regal Hall, different different city facilities, and you know, people requesting to use that for uh a cut rate or for free uh organizations. Y'all have a policy on the books right now, and it's pretty stringent that if it's a city event, yes, if it's not, no. So why isn't that I mean, what's the problem with that policy, and why isn't that policy being uh d executed? And because at Plymouth Bluff, the last thing I heard Jeff Tarnage, your city attorney, say was whatever y'all do with this, just do it and stick with it.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

And don't make exceptions.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Exactly. No, I agree. And it's just hard. It's it's it's hard. Things come up, and on the surface it ought to be black and white. You either say yes and it is or no, it's not. But you know, we have uh the C V B come and say, uh, well, we we were going to use uh this facility for the airbase or whatever the case. Well, they're a great partner. You obviously want to help.

SPEAKER_06 31:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

Well, that fell through. Can we use this? Well, we don't have the money to pay what you this wasn't originally what we asked for. Well, as the city, you okay. All right. Well, that that technically we should say no, but morally we should say yes. So it just it's just a lot of things come up. It's just not uh a black and white issue. There's a lot of gray area that makes it a little bit more complicated.

SPEAKER_05 32:08

Well, Rusty, is there anything else you'd like to throw at us or talk to the people about?

SPEAKER_04 32:13

Oh uh no, we're we're making progress. Uh I'm excited about the amphitheater. If you would have uh asked me, hey, do you want to go spend four million dollars to build an amphitheater, I would say no. But the fact is, it is there and it is 75 percent complete, and it's gonna be a great asset to this part of town and the the residents of Columbus and Lowndes County. I really believe that. And um, you know, people complain, oh, you've built a uh facility in the middle of the flood zone. Well, the stage technically is, but we're we're building the rest the restrooms and the concessions is not in the flood zone.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

So And y'all have built the the electricity. The electrical is up, so you know So the flood flood doesn't get to the electrical on the Trevor Burrus.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Unless you get past that hundred-year mark, you know, and that's the case on anything.

SPEAKER_05 33:04

Well, and then we'll do like the concert that on the the Simpsons movie where they had the concert on the barge. I mean look, I'm out of my allotment of dad jokes for Speaker.

Nonprofit Funding And Facility Use Policy Stalemate

SPEAKER_04 33:15

We are we are trying to make it so that people can come up on their boats, so I'm glad you said that. There's a lot of ideas floating around. Hey, we could do this and this. Now, whether they'll all come to fruition is another thing. But it's fun to think of what could be. This could be an entertainment area for Columbus. We could do that.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

We're asking everybody who talks about the amphitheater, so I'm going to ask you, what is your vote for the first act, the opening act for opening night at the amphitheater?

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Wow. I jokingly said uh because right across the street, I spent a lot of time at the club growing up that uh the gap band or somebody like that, if they're even still alive. That's the problem when you get to my age, they're like, the people I listen to, oh man, they're not even alive anymore. So you're listening to a tribute band.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Half the Rolling Stones are still alive. Well, that's true too. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

And it it it was encouraging when we were discussing this with uh some of the promoters that we've met with about who could come and how would this look. They're throwing out some names that uh it was like, okay, we're not just getting little scrap artists come in here. This could this could be a very entertaining uh lineup of the Aaron.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

I mean, it's definitely pe it's definitely people that you could get you could fill that place up with, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

Oh, absolutely. That you would want to come see. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. And I I think but but with that and uh being able to use it for uh other functions, I just think it's gonna be a big asset. And uh maybe not be the eyesore and the contentious kind of discussions that everybody has. I hope it ends up being uh uh, you know, uh a positive thing for Columbus. And I think it will be.

SPEAKER_05 35:00

I think it will. And I just want to thank you for coming in here today. I wish you well with this project, and uh thank you for being our guest today. You've been listening to between the headlines. Our special guest has been Mr. Rusty Green of Ward 3, who is also the chief contractor of Covered, Smothered, and Only$130,000.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

Can I can I add one more thing before we leave? I just want to note that.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

When you came and said, I'm gonna put this in the paper, I thought, oh man, please don't do that to me. So people read that, and you know there are people in this world that live on being negative about everything that is said. And so I went from telling you that older people would need a place to stay to reading the comments where he's gonna put elderly people, he's gonna make them climb steps, put them in a flood zone, and now Granny's gonna drown and not be able to get out of her house. So I just wanted to make it clear that this older is, I'm speaking of myself, and if you can't climb five steps to get into your new little cottage that is convenient, that is hopefully affordable, then this is probably not for you. I would suggest you just don't come by this, but uh, I bet there's three people that might.

SPEAKER_05 36:24

Thanks, Rusty, chief contractor of geriatric contracting LLC.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

Thank you for clarifying that though.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

The Good for Business Podcast features interviews, tips, and tricks from owners, operators, and innovators. Hear the inspiring stories of growth and life lessons from guests in Mississippi and around the world. Hosted by entrepreneur, fundraiser, and real estate broker Colin Krieger, the podcast is based right here in the Golden Triangle community.

SPEAKER_05 36:51

The commercial dispatch garage sale is coming up Saturday, February 7th. Tools, unique pieces of art, vintage items, bulk supplies, office supplies, office furniture, and much more. The dispatch isn't going anywhere. We've just cleaned out the closets February 7th from 7 to noon at 516 Main Street in Columbus. So on the agenda today, we talk about House Bill No. I was told that it was dead on arrival, but this was dead dead on arrival.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

May it rest in permanence.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

Like uh it was God have mercy on your soul, did. Zach, they didn't even they didn't even bring it up for a discussion. It came in there, it was sent immediately to committee for the purpose of killing it. Goodbye. Fifteen member committee, five of them Democrats, ten of them Republicans, unanimously voted no, Mr. Speaker, we are not having this. Where do we even start?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Well, I'm gonna tell you um the part of it that was objectionable to them was the part of the bill that was most objectionable to me, and it was the voucher part for private schools. Public money going to the private schools. That was what killed that omnibus bill in the Senate. The Senate has its own version of this bill that has most of the tenets of the House bill that were uh of some use to anybody still there. The public-to-public portability part of this I think is very useful, uh, very relevant, and it's in the Senate bill that is now going to the House. The only part the only casualty here is the uh very uh uh ill-thought out um private school voucher system that nobody wanted. The private schools didn't want it, public schools didn't want it, nobody wanted it. And the fact that that even made it to the Senate, I mean it just barely did, um, and I'm not surprised that it got killed. But what I am excited about, or I at least open to, is this public-to-public portability, which would allow you to uh transfer from your public school to another public school with reduced need for permissions. And basically it says, then the school you're at has to release you.

SPEAKER_05 39:16

Has to release you. Right. Yeah. So do you think there's a possibility now that the m waters have been muddied by the controversy around this, that they're just gonna say no because their political feelings are hurt?

SPEAKER_03 39:30

Are you talking about the House? No, I mean um House Education uh committee chair, although he's still banging the drum to get the vouchers back in it, admitted on the record in the story that we have published today that uh it's you know, he supports the Senate bill as it is and will uh and he feels like it's gonna go through committee and the and that the House will probably approve it. And and I think he's probably right about that. But um I think that the portability part, that public-to-public portability part, I think that they need to bake that cake a little more. Uh you've got transportation issues with that, because you don't want to make it uh you you know, I think something within 30 miles that that they're guaranteeing transportation. I don't know. Really? I don't know how they do that.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

I didn't think the school buses were gonna go a mile further past their line.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

I don't know how they're gonna do that, and they need to work that out a little better, probably. But the idea that um you're uh that a child would be shackled to their geography. And and I and and I believe that geography right now, uh in in our current system of anything, geography is probably probably plays the most outsized role in your outcome. This does at least something toward reducing the shackles of geography to uh you know kids that would otherwise be able to go to a good school district. When the House Bill was proposed, uh one of the things that everybody admitted was that it was a litmus test for consolidation.

SPEAKER_05 41:05

I think Well consolidation was in it, Cabayah County.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Right. But people th there are people that are having their hands up putting their hands up right now going, but the schools and the communities and what they mean to the communities. Well, if your school isn't is a bad school and it's a low-performing school and it's a perennially low performing school, then you're not really actually doing a whole lot for those kids in that situation. So removing that shackle of geography and letting the you know letting the people decide what's a good school district and what isn't, the cream will come to the top.

SPEAKER_05 41:43

Cream as it were in Mississippi. Well, I mean, to your point, you've mentioned two very distinct and different problems within the education system, two of many, right? And I've got to go with Andy Boyd on this one. You had a 500-plus page omnibus bill that just didn't sit well.

SPEAKER_06 42:05

Right.

SPEAKER_05 42:05

Uh not with members of the Senate, not with the public. You've got, from what I can tell, half the people out there that hate this bill because it didn't go far enough, and you've got the other half out there that hate this bill because it went too far. Okay? And so anybody that reads this or looks at it can find something in it that they simply do not like. If they'd have broken it up and put it through there in smaller pieces, then maybe we could talk about appropriate consolidation or vouchers if that's our thing. But 500 pages of things that uh, as Dana McLean was saying, is disproportionately let me not speak for her, but just paraphrase and think, disproportionately and inequitably helping students from all walks of life, then it becomes something that's a no for obviously for this committee among others.

Amphitheater Progress And Opening Dreams

SPEAKER_03 43:03

Well, and I'm I'm gonna go back to the Senate bill, which kind of addressed these things in a lot of the way that you're talking about now, uh took the things that it liked from it, made it more concise, and went on. There's one thing in the Senate bill, though, that I like it in spirit, but uh I'm not sure if it doesn't, you know, overwhelm the pro or or make the problem that we have worse. And it's the you know, the the sort of incentivizing and encouraging good teachers to go into bad schools. Good teachers in bad schools just create more bad teachers or more burnout, or or it makes the uh it exacerbates the teacher shortage instead of let's put more t let's more put more good teachers in good schools and uh incentivize uh bad schools to be better schools instead of saying, well, we'll throw a couple of good teachers at you and it's all gonna be better. Because I don't think this is a controversial thing to say, but it's going to be something that rubs people the wrong way. Trevor Burrus Welcome to my world. Trevor Burrus The people The people in a lot of your school districts, especially school districts that are low-performing, the highest paid people in those school districts are people who washed out of the classroom in three years and then fell up into administration.

SPEAKER_06 44:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

And Shad White, God love him, has to wake up every day being him, but he's not wrong about everything, and he's right about that. And uh I think that throwing good teachers into those types of situations and expecting them to be the Jesus Christ of the moment and just heal everything, it's a recipe for just taking teachers that could have had long careers in decent districts and burning them out in three years and having them go do something else with their lives when that's a that's a disservice to everyone. So let's start looking at the problem top down, I think.

SPEAKER_05 45:06

Well, the argument could certainly be made that taking good teachers and putting them into difficult schools results in the whole thing being dragged down to your point. But if you flip that around, okay, what about struggling students being taken into good stuff good schools? Okay. Does that bring those students up or are you going to go with the argument of the people in the the better performing schools where they drag it down? You know, does it drag the whole because you can't have it both ways on this. You got to flip it around. Well, I think it's so complicated.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

I think that you put the kids in the best situation. I I think you put the kids in the best situation and you put the teachers in the best situation. And and and that puts the community in the best situation. And if your community is on the bubble or it's a struggling district and you're scared you're going to lose your uh community identity because your school is underperforming, then the onus is on that community and that school district to bootstrap it.

SPEAKER_05 46:09

That's the way I feel about it. God willing, we will be able to properly define what the best situation is. And I guess the main argument out there is why not have the parents make that call. So next thing on the list to talk about today is a very unfortunate story coming out of Heritage Academy where a young girl uh was bitten by a police dog. Can you recap this story for us?

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Um yeah, to what we could report on it, which we uh got pretty well exclusively from the sheriff's office, which is a point I want to revisit in a minute. But um this was uh community helper day, sheriff's office pr uh participates in it every year. They go over there, they give them uh coloring books, they talk to the kids, they take a dog over to where they can kind of see the police dog. And in spirit, this is something that you know is very obvious. And very common. And yeah. You want the you you want the kids to realize that, you know the the police are part of the community. You want to get used to you want to get used to being around police, it lowers the fear of the police, at least in theory. And I, you know, and it and it's a community service outreach thing for the police department, or not the police, the sheriff's office, uh, into these into these schools. So in spirit, it's great. Where this thing went wrong was they took an apprehension dog into a classroom with young children.

SPEAKER_05 47:44

Okay. Hang on. So an apprehension dog is not the same as a drug sniffing dog.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

No.

SPEAKER_05 47:50

Okay.

Mississippi School Bill: Vouchers Killed, Portability Lives

SPEAKER_03 47:50

There's a the apprehension dogs are the ones that they train to when the perp's running. Go catch that perp, neutralize that perp so I can put handcuffs on the perp. That's that kind of dog. Um, and it's one of those Belgian malanois big sons of guns. Bring them in. The way that the story goes is that at some point the dog kind of got nervous because the kids were all around, they were being loud, they were being kids. One child grabs this dog from behind, the dog turns around and bites this little girl. Uh, I don't know. I mean, there's lots of rumors out there about the extent of these injuries, from maybe not so bad to extremely severe. Uh, I don't have anything to report on the record about the extent of those injuries, but um certainly something that's going to be devastating for that little girl. You know, we feel very bad for the girl and her family and praying for her. Yeah. You have a dog that is trained to do something that there's no evidence that that dog doesn't do that very, very well. Part of that job description should never have been for that dog to be in close quarters with a group of young enough children that you know had the impulse control issues, you couldn't grab the dog. So I don't blame the girl, I don't blame the dog. Some people are uh talk talking about the handler, maybe. Some people brought up the teacher, and that's offensive. I mean the teacher was put in that situation in the same way that the dog and the little girl were. Here's this dog that is, and I'm not trained to be around apprehension dogs with children either. So the decision to put that dog in that situation is at fault for this. Now, I don't think that anybody thought that this was going to happen. I don't think that anybody even envisioned that this could happen. But I think a little critical thinking there into, hey, maybe not that type of dog in that situation. And I think it may end up being a pretty expensive lesson for the uh sheriff's department and the school.

SPEAKER_05 50:11

There are so many variables in this story that I'm not even going to pretend to have the answer to it. I just know that it's so unfortunate that that this has happened. What I will say is that that when they did this back in my day in the 1900s, okay. Uh that they were very adamant you don't touch the dog. You don't rub Ben Gay on its nose like Clint Eastwood did in the mule. The dog, you just don't mess with it. And it was very, very adamantly understood. I don't know the details. I I I hate to see a dog put down, but you know, the law is what the law is.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Well, and nobody has said that this dog will be put down. Uh Eddie Hawkins, the sheriff, said that it was going to be benched and retrained, which I think is the right call. I'm just responding to the calls on Facebook to put the dog down, which I think are unreasonable.

SPEAKER_05 51:08

Well, if it's an isolated incident, then you know that could be possible there.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

So Well, a and and to your point about the 1990s when we were both in school, we had dro uh we had uh police dogs come to our school too. We were in an auditorium, that dog was on a stage with a handler, you get the same impact uh of getting the exposure to the police and seeing the police dog work, which is cool, and you get to know the dog's name and all of that, and you're not in closed close quarters with this dog that could get nervous and be very dangerous.

SPEAKER_05 51:44

Yeah. Well, you know, uh a lot of police dogs uh up north, as I understand it, are working on being phased out and replaced with robot dogs. And I would think that the robot dogs with artificial intelligence would be less likely to bite.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

Well, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 52:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

And good on the sheriff, I mean, I know he did not want to talk about this.

SPEAKER_05 52:07

Oh, he's so sick about that.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

But good on him for talking about it and for uh being uh transparent, at least to the extent that you know we we don't have the we don't have a video of the details. It is his version of the story, but he was transparent that this happened and that someone was hurt and and what the policies were moving forward. Right.

SPEAKER_05 52:27

He didn't send that dog to the hospital and and then not give the dog a drug test. I mean right.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

So I mean, there's that. The school has been mom on this, and I know they're private school, but this was a this was a uh a very public event, and you would think that there would at least be some sense of responsibility from the school standpoint to make some sort of statement saying, hey, we really hate this happen and we pray for a speedy recovery for the little girl, blah, blah, blah. Just something, some sort of token, hey, we are acknowledging that this happened. We're very sorry about it.

SPEAKER_05 53:11

Well, that's the thing. If if you say that you're sorry about something from a legal standpoint, sometimes that's admitting fault.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

How can you not be sorry for a girl getting bit by a dog under your care? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 53:25

Well, I get that. Uh they're sorry, everybody's sorry.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

It's because when you say nothing and you just refer all c when the headmaster isn't answering the phone at all, and the communications person that you hire for that school is just referring all questions to the sheriff's department, it looks apathetic to the issue. And I doubt seriously that they actually are apathetic to the issue or ambivalent to the issue, but that is the message that you convey in that situation. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 53:57

Yeah. They're not. They they just don't want I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that they probably just don't want to say the wrong thing. That's obviously terrible and everybody knows that it's terrible. And and frankly, that's all I've got to say.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

And I don't think that anybody did anything from the school to the sheriff's office to the handler to anybody. I don't think anybody did anything with the intention of this happening, or and I don't certainly don't think that anybody is like okay with this happening. No.

SPEAKER_05 54:36

I just think you get the dead gum lawyers involved, though.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

There were some pretty bad judgment calls to create this situation.

SPEAKER_05 54:44

Uh prayers for the girl. I hope everything's fine. I hope I hope that I just hope everything turns out all right. All right.

Teacher Incentives, Consolidation, And Choice

SPEAKER_03 54:52

All that aside, what are three things that we need to know? Three things to know. Number one, Lowndes County is planning to spend$11 million to repair as many as 40 roads this summer. Of that, three million will come from the Office of State Aid. The rest of it's either in the county budget or it's uh internet use tax money that they're gonna uh do out in uh short-term bonds. Most of the work is repaving, but a handful of roads either need resealing, milling, or other improvements. Number two, the old West Point Road Bridge will be repaired this weekend. That means the eastbound lanes of Highway 82 between the Macon Exit and just west of downtown Columbus Exit will be closed to traffic from 6 a.m. Sunday to 5 a.m. Monday. So if you live in Startville and have church, Super Bowl, or just regular bowling plans in Columbus, you'll have to detour through West Point to get here. Number three, in a stroke of good luck, the Lowndes County Foundation discovered through the state's unclaimed property database that it owns 735 shares of Walmart stock it completely forgot it had. The foundation has since claimed the property, which was donated in the 1990s, which translates into$90,000 for its coffers. Visit the State Treasurer's website to search the database for your name. You may be surprised by what you find.

SPEAKER_05 56:13

Well, thanks for joining us today. Find that one friend of yours that needs to know what's happening here locally so they can listen in, and together we can continue to make our hometown a better place. Reach out to us. Tips at cdispatch.com. You can also follow me, Facebook or X at Dchisholm Double Zero. We love public comments. Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley in historic downtown Columbus. Your host has been Zach Player. I'm Dave Chisholm. Y'all stay friendly.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

I'm just a simple old country boy, but um, I think that makes sense. I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.

SPEAKER_05 56:49

You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David. That's what old people do.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

That is.