Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
Dangerous Hwy 45 Intersection May Finally Get Addressed PLUS George Irby
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A dangerous intersection, a doubled construction bill, and a voice that carries decades of experience - George Irby. We start with Highway 45 and Mike Parra Road, where 29 crashes since 2020 and the death of a young man have galvanized a petition and renewed pressure to improve public safety. We lay out the facts the way residents need them: what a traffic signal would change, why engineers might prefer cutting the crossover with managed U‑turns, and which interim measures could save lives now while a long-term design moves forward.
From there, we pivot to the Stokes Beard gym and a shocker: a $2.8M estimate swelling to $6.4M after a storm-shelter requirement came to light.
Then we welcome George Irby, a Columbus legend whose life spans NFL locker rooms, Tuskegee in the Civil Rights era, and a relentless commitment to service through the Happy Irby Fund.
If you care about safer roads, smarter schools, and a community that remembers its people, you’ll feel this one.
Cold Open, Sponsors, And Setup
SPEAKER_02I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.
SPEAKER_00I'm not asking you to hide anything. No, put it out there. Let the people see it.
SPEAKER_05I've never not worked in a hospital working department.
SPEAKER_02You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face. Zach, that's a hard question. I have no answer for it. From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.
SPEAKER_07This week on Between the Headlines, will there ever be a traffic signal at the intersection of 45 North and Mike Para Road? Things are in the works on that. Also the Stokes Beard Gym. Are we looking at a storm shelter? Are we looking at a big project or a little project? Interesting things happening there. And our special guest today is none other than Mr. George Irby. Retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over 40 years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. Benton's Maintenance Mechanical makes easy work out of plumbing, electrical, heating, and air conditioner problems. You can book an appointment by phone or online, and rest assured they will show up at the appointed time. Call Bentons at 662-657-2583 or visit them online at Bentonsinc.com. That is BentonsINC.com. This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi. That means your banking decisions aren't made hundreds of miles away by someone who doesn't know you. They're made here locally by bankers who know your name and care about the community. At Bank First, we're more than bankers. We're your neighbors. Whether we're cheering in the stands, catching up at a local pancake breakfast, or celebrating milestones across our community, we're part of the moments that matter most. Stop by your local Bank First branch or visit BankFirstFS.com to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing lender, Bank NMLS 454063. You are listening to Between the Headlines with the managing editor of the Dispatch, Mr. Zach Player. My name's Dave Chisholm. Zach, did you watch the Super Bowl halftime show?
SPEAKER_06I just want to say to you allow me amigo and Felice Episodio Cinquinta.
SPEAKER_07Well, Yo Chietro Taco Bell to you too. Oh dude, it is episode 50, isn't it? Man, where do we even it's it's been a year, hasn't it?
SPEAKER_06It's yeah, coming up on it, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Well, it's been good. Yeah, it's been real.
SPEAKER_06And it's mostly been friendly.
The Dangerous 45 And Mike Parra Intersection
SPEAKER_07I think so. I think so. It's been factual, and uh that's the whole name of the game. Just keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio. One real issue that I'd like to begin with today is the intersection of Highway 45 and Mike Perra Road. Uh just a little backstory on this. Uh it's a very dangerous intersection. The speed limit there is either 55 or 65. It's a super fast part of town, just on the outer skirts north of here. And there's been some crashes and there's been some fatalities. And the push has been to put a traffic signal there, and it has gotten to the point that a petition has been devised with quite a few signatures, as I understand it.
SPEAKER_06All right, this is an intersection that's been a problem for quite some time. As a matter of fact, according to MDOT's own records, uh there have been 29 crashes at that intersection since January 2020. So in six years, there's been twenty-nine accidents at that intersection.
SPEAKER_07So that immediately tells you that doing nothing is simply not an option. Right.
SPEAKER_06But what brought this to a head was a fatal accident where a young man named uh Nicholas Jenkins was uh killed August 30th. And his mom is the one who started those petitions. We talked to her for uh an article that we wrote on it trying to just kind of kind of update what's going on there. Uh it it published on Tuesday. Um and since that time, uh I've heard from county officials. Um I know that she's posted on Facebook that that Chuck Younger has um uh spoken with her, Ms. Ms. Jenkins has spoken with her, and uh there's maybe some pressure being put on MDOT now. And uh the traffic signal isn't, I think, the direction that they're going, but uh they're talking about you know maybe cutting that intersection, creating U-turns, uh things of that nature. And I'm not, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_07So a couple of things there. Number one, kudos to the paper. When the paper picks up on something, things happen.
SPEAKER_06Well, kudos to the the kudos to Ms. Jenkins for talking to us.
SPEAKER_07Yes, a hundred percent. And then hopefully, you know, us you and I talking about today, uh even more momentum uh will uh gain steam. Yeah, but I want to talk about um the what of it because that that's gonna be the big thing. You mentioned that they they may or may not do a traffic light. You know, I've read the comments, uh, the internet is almost unanimous about there needing to be a traffic light there. Well and those who oppose a light um are not speaking because you know they know they're they're gonna get in trouble for saying that. But to the earlier point, we've got to do something. And what is the proposed something else?
SPEAKER_06I uh you know, I think that there have been uh uh different ideas that have been uh thrown out. Like I said, I I mentioned the uh cutting the intersection and the U-turn and different things. I'm just gonna be honest with you. That's above my pay grade. I'm not intelligent enough to talk about potential engineering things. Uh but I think that the thing for for me here is that we need to keep talking about this issue because the complaint that uh Ms. Jenkins has had is that, you know, MDOT hasn't been particularly um responsive to her. John Caldwell's office, not particularly responsive about this. And you know, I I'll be honest with you, I there was some reluctance from MDOT to talk to us for the artist. They did, and they gave us some information and and and and gave us some quotes and things. But what really it bore out was, yeah, we know there's a problem. We don't know what we're gonna do about it, we'll see. And I think that continuing to talk about it, continuing to bring it to the fore, having county officials, having uh Chuck Younger as a state senator continue to keep pressure on this, that's what the public can do in situations like this. And I think it would be even though it's a terrible tragedy about Nicholas Jenkins and uh and should have never happened, is just terrible. I think that in her mind, the best way to honor his memory is to get something done about the thing that he even identified was a problem days before he died there.
SPEAKER_07Other than another study, because they're good about studies, they're good about telling us that a study is in the works.
SPEAKER_06But we're not sure what we're gonna do, we're not sure how long it's gonna take. We'll let you know. We'll let you know doesn't feed the bulldog when 29 people are crashing at one intersection in sixty years.
SPEAKER_07And they can't even get an amber beacon or something up there as just a stop gap to, you know, before we really figure out the problem, what can we do right now here today?
What Fix Will Actually Work
SPEAKER_06Right. And and that's one of the questions that we ask, well, temporary measures won't really work there, but something's gotta work. Something's gotta be done. And, you know, there have been four reported accidents with injuries there since Mr. Jenkins died there. Now, I will say this if the engineers come up with something and they present it and they do it and it works, the peanut gallery needs to not maybe be so down on it if it's not exactly what they want it to be. Let the people do the job that they're hired to do, but hey, people that are hired to do that job, let's do it.
SPEAKER_07Well, you're exactly right because the thing about it is let's say it ends up not being a signal. Most people want a signal. If it ends up not being a signal, what you just have to remember there are senior citizens who have been traveling that highway for 50 years and they're not used to a signal being there, and they don't necessarily have to be diddling on their phone. They could just be daydreaming or just not completely with it, and they're gonna blow through it. So we don't want to trade accidents for a different type of accidents. We want our people to be safe, and that said, kudos to all of you out here out there who have made this an issue that's now in front of the politicians. And I expect something will happen very, very soon. Okay. Speaking of keeping people safe, uh we have a story that's come up here lately that's uh in when I first looked at it, I it you know how Siri thinks that she's smarter than we are, and so it I the Stoked Beard Gym, I'm like, Zach, what is the Stoked business? That was that was a type of Stokes beard. That's right. And so the Stokes Beard Gym, okay, and that's over by Prop's Park, right? Yes. And and what we've run into is we're going from a normal gym to a fortress level gym that's gonna be double the cost because we're worried about the tornado, which we need to be worried about the tornado, but we need to be worried in a smart way. Zach, can you help me unpack this?
SPEAKER_06Well, uh I think that um there was uh something's heaky in this planning because when when they planned this uh gym at Stokes Beard as part of the bond projects that everybody voted on, um it was gonna be there was this planned$2.8 million construction, et cetera, et cetera. And um at Monday night's Columbus Municipal School Board meeting, the prior morrow uh uh The architect architect, yeah, says, well, there's actually been a change in the code. We're gonna have to build this pretty significant storm shelter here in order to be uh uh in order to be in line with city code. And that's gonna make this cost 6.4 million. So it's uh more than double w uh what they intended to spend.
SPEAKER_07And so it's either build it like this, you know, huge concrete pilings, iron, all that stuff, or uh get an exemption from City Hall, from City Council.
Momentum, Accountability, And Interim Measures
SPEAKER_06Right. So there's got to be a yeah, there's got to be a storm shelter uh that can withstand 250 mile an hour winds as part of this construction and hold the number of people either that can fit in the gym or can fit in the school. That that's a that is an area of some debate right now. But um yeah, they've either got to do that, spend the 6.4 million, or they've got to get a variance from the city. Now, a couple of quick things here we we looked up. Um this code change that they're talking about when they shifted from the 2018 to the 2021, you know, international building codes or or or whatever they're using. We looked at both versions. The one that they're using now and saying this is what is gonna cost$6.4 million, and the version that uh they were using before that when they gave the$2.8 million estimate. Word for word, where educational facilities is concerned, it's the same. Nothing changed. They just missed it. Which is the same. Or somebody did. I'm not saying that any particular person missed it, but it got missed along the way, and now it's coming home.
SPEAKER_07Well, this time around, the architect, uh, we have to wonder, either is just worried about liability. It's their job to be worried about safety and liability. Or you hate to be crass and say, you know, if you build it more expensive, your percentage goes up a little bit.
SPEAKER_06Well, I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna touch that. And I'm not even gonna I'm not even going to uh insinuate that there was any negligence or wrongdoing, but somebody somebody missed the bus here. Whoever it was, somebody did.
SPEAKER_07And we've got to build it correctly this time. And now what?
SPEAKER_06Okay, or you've got to get a or you've got to get a variance or special exception or whatever the uh mechanism is. I just just build the thing like you're supposed to build it. Um they have saved possibly enough money on these um bond projects uh up until this point to where they might can cover this extra cost. That was that was part of what we reported. But I mean, end of the day, when you're asking and we said this from the very beginning, when we were covering that bond, that$36 million bond that they passed to do these various projects district wide and consolidate campuses and all of that. Be very clear about what you're doing and where you're gonna do it. Because when you're asking people to to let you borrow money and so they can pay it back for you, then you need to have your you need to have your crap together. And uh a$3.6 million miss on just one of your project, that's 10% of the entire bond. Like, how do you miss it by that much? And and and there and and that goes back to the importance of of knowing what you're doing before you ask taxpayers to pay for it and not having these types of things happen. Somebody should have checked this box before we went to the ballot box.
Stokes Beard Gym Cost Shock
SPEAKER_07A couple of things there. One, here we are with an estimate that's really a pre-estimate. It's one of these numbers that we just vomit out there and that the the people that bid on this stuff bid accordingly. So we don't know that it'll cost that much. Here's the deal. Let me ask you this. Do do we have extended school year within the municipal school district of Columbus? Yes. All right. And so when they turn the weather channel on and see that it's going to be potential tornadic activity, do they even go to school that day? I d I mean I don't know. They they don't have to. They certainly it's one if if we build it, we better dadgum use it. Okay? If we build it, why not open up one half of it as a community storm shelter? I've heard so many people talking about a community storm shelter for so long. Is this not an opportunity for the school district to work with the city and even potentially the county to put something there that's that will actually do the job of protecting people as opposed to letting the kids you know stay at home at the trailer parks or at the houses that that really aren't that safe when it comes to a tornado. We've learned that. Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_06I mean, from 30,000 feet without looking into the details of that, that sounds like a heck of an idea.
SPEAKER_07And then you could also get federal money in if you open it up like that.
SPEAKER_06Maybe.
SPEAKER_07And we need federal money. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_06But but where I'm gonna kind of and I like that point, and I don't know how possible that is, but you know, it's one of those deals that it's you know, I had a uh That's right, it requires phone calls for stuff like that. Well, we had an umpire when I was in little league that one time he was uh he was looking back behind him when somebody uh when the pitcher pitched the ball, and it was one of those big boys that could throw it real hard, and it popped that glove hard, and the umpire wasn't looking, but he said strike. And it and he was like, you weren't even looking. He said it sounded like a strike. What you just said sounds like a strike. I like it. Without know without knowing all the details of what that was. Yeah, I it sounded like a strike when you said it. But for me, like their other option here is they're wanting to go now to the city to ask them, well, can we can we just build what we intended to build to begin with? And they're wanting that exception. And I understand why they're asking for it. It's a mechanism that they have an option to do, then the and the city council can the planning and zoning commission, the city council, they can all consider this and make the decisions that they're gonna make about it, and that's how it works.
SPEAKER_07But it's tough. You gotta protect the kids at all costs.
SPEAKER_06You gotta protect the kids at all costs.
SPEAKER_07We have radar nowadays.
Code, Storm Shelters, And The Missed Rule
SPEAKER_06Principally, follow the rules. And I get on one about this every time I every time it comes up because and and I've got friends of mine who uh really really decide that uh I I'm maybe stupid when I say this, but if the rules are written down and you can find them, if you live in a historic district, you look follow the historic district rules. If you live in a city, follow the planning and zoning and the code and and code restrictions. And if you build something, build it right. It's your responsibility to do that. Um don't, for whatever reason, whether you're planning on on breaking the rules or whether you accidentally find out later you're breaking the rules is going to cost you more to follow them. I don't think that we should be so willy-nilly with the variances. I think we should people should follow the rules. I saw, I have seen in 20 years covering local government some of the strangest, craziest things involved with development. It wasn't too long ago I was covering a meeting in a different city where a guy bought a piece of property that wasn't big enough for the development that he wanted to put there. It wouldn't it wouldn't follow the setback rules. Setback rules were. This was this were setback rules that he was well aware existed. And he designed the thing for that property anyway, and then you know ramrodted it through the Planning Commission and the and the and the city board in this place. There was opposition to it for several different reasons. It was very crass to the opposition, the the city board was kind of to the opposition. And the arguments that this guy was using were were summed up in two ways. Number one, I'm me. Number two, this is going to be very valuable. All right, well, if you're you, then and it's gonna be valuable and you know what you're doing, then you should have built it to specs. And and there's he got his variants, and that building is up, and it doesn't meet the city setback requirements. And then you see this going the other direction right here in River City with that ATT tower. They jumped through hoop after hoop after hoop and did what they were supposed to do, and the city kept, because of, you know, aesthetics or pseudoscience conspiracy theories or whatever, said, We just don't want it. And we don't care if you followed the rules, we don't care if you did everything right, we just don't want it. And they ended up suing and saying, No, we followed all the rules, so you're gonna have to honor that we followed all of the rules. And the city backed off. So the rules are the rules for a reason, just follow them. Build what you're supposed to build. Don't school district now ask because you weren't paying attention however many years ago, say, oh hell, we didn't know that, so can we just get a mulligan? No, build the shelter.
SPEAKER_07Well, a three and a half million dollar mulligan sounds like a treat to me. But you and I differ in that regard. Uh interesting topic. I'll be looking forward to seeing how it develops. After the break, it'll be story time with Mr. George Irby. Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Bloodfirst.
SPEAKER_00The Good for Business Podcast features interviews, tips, and tricks from owners, operators, and innovators. Here are the inspiring stories of growth and life lessons from guests in Mississippi and around the world. Hosted by entrepreneur, fundraiser, and real estate broker Colin Krieger, the podcast is based right here in the Golden Triangle community.
SPEAKER_07Since 1935, Lowndes Farm Supply has supported the Greater Columbus Trade Area with products and knowledge for the farm, ranch, and garden markets, along with lawn, hunting supplies, outdoor clothing, and boots. Go check them out at 69 Co op Road in Columbus. We are pleased to have in the studio today Mr. George Irby. Thank you for the first time. For being here, sir. Before we begin, I've got it here in your bio that you are the interim city planner, though you've been there quite some time. But there's a lot more to Mr. George Irby. Where do we begin with the intro to Mr. George?
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, he's a a legend in town, a former NFL draftee, and you know, today the custodian of the Happy Irby uh fund, which is named for his father who used to work at the Air Force Base, and uh provides clothing and supplies for something like 400 children every year, in addition to Christmas gifts and also fruit baskets for folks and things like that. Mr. George Erby, welcome in here today, sir.
SPEAKER_05I'm glad to be here, I think.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Well, I'm glad you're here. I've heard a lot about you, but now I finally get to see you and shake hands with you. So thanks for coming on here.
SPEAKER_06We've we've got you on here today to talk about uh a wide variety of issues uh ranging from your uh you know your father's legacy, your legacy in the city, and then the work that you're doing uh with the planning department. But uh uh I want to start with a uh I want to start with a New York Times article that I found about you when you were uh in camp with the Giants and you were talking about going to Green Bay for the first time and playing in front of 52,000 people. You remember that?
SPEAKER_05I I remember going to the game, and I remember getting hurt at the game, but I do not remember anything written about me. Okay. Let me ask you this, Mr. Irby. Call me George.
SPEAKER_07Okay. I don't know if I'll do that. I'll try to do that.
SPEAKER_05See, Peter went to school with my daughter, so she called me daddy, so yeah, that was taken.
SPEAKER_07I know you're not here today to talk about football per se, but I just have to ask, if you were to summarize your career and that thing with the Giants, um, what would you tell people about your past, just as an interesting thing about yourself that most people aren't aware of?
Variances, Precedent, And Follow The Rules
SPEAKER_05Well, the interesting part about coming from Mississippi in in the 60s, um and limited to uh TV radio things, it wasn't always national things, and then you had national teams that were uh basically restricted to the South. Like we always watched the Redskins, we knew about the St. Louis Cardinals, that kind of thing. And just so happened, my senior year in college, friend Tarkinton, spoke at our athletic banquet. That's the same year that I got drafted, and he was the quarterback for the Giants. I had no thoughts about going to the Giants. I always wanted to play um professional football. When I went to college, I didn't go to learn, I went to play football. You know, I didn't know that you had to go to class and all that. Good times. But but but what it did for me uh at an oh 18, 19, you know, it was not an early age, um, you know, going to college because at first I went to Colorado State because I, you know, I just thought I could go um got a scholarship, and it would improve my horizon, my my who I would be, you know, visit seeing other places, you know. And uh only state there to play freshman football. So you guys are young, and uh, see, back when I went my first year in college, or times after that, you had to play freshman ball. You couldn't go in and be on the varsity team. And we played four games that year, but um it helped improve my horizon. Fast forward, I went to Tuskegee. Uh I've always been a person just saying what I what I felt. And I told people, I said, I you had to have a two-point, I had a 1.6. You know, and they wanted to send me to a junior college. And I said, I don't want to go to a junior college. So I called my daddy, and he knew some people, and they told me he'd come on down to Tuskegee. And I told him, I said, well, at Colorado State they had 15,000 students. A hundred of them were black, and out of those 100, 75 of them were Africans that didn't consider themselves as being black. And I said, I gotta go somewhere where I can copy off of somebody. So I went to to Tuskegee, which um was uh a great experience, you know, the the history of the school. And and and I I I will tell you all something, and since you say you all can edit this, that was interesting to me that got me more involved in the civil rights movement. I got to Tuskegee, and at the bus station, and we're talking about 64. Well, actually it was 65. And um at the bus station, it was segregated. And this um student went to the bus station, went inside the station to use the restroom, and he was denied. He went in the back to relieve himself, and the manager came and pointed a gun at his forehead and shot and killed him.
SPEAKER_07Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05Oh wow. That stuck with me. And so, you know, it was. I got involved in the movement, and I remember the night when uh Martin Luther King was killed. I was I was one that was standing in the door. They closed the school down after that. They had uh, and you all may not be interested in this. I don't know how to do that. But um on campus, we you know, we were I don't guess if you say rioting, but the Board of Trustees were on campus at that time. And I was with a group that night before we knew that uh they were coming. So we went around to all of the uh to the motor pool and disconnected uh uh distributor cab so they couldn't nobody go to work. We went through the window, put chains on the door so couldn't nobody go to class that that that that next day. And uh we locked the uh uh trustees in this building they went. And they got my picture. I thought that's what you had that the sheriff. I was standing at the door, you know, wouldn't let anybody enter.
SPEAKER_07Wow.
Break And Sponsor Messages
SPEAKER_05And um they the uh George Wallace nationalized the I mean not nationalized, called it the National Guard in, and they were getting ready to bring a tank on campus. Well then they they federalized those guards, and the guy that uh was over those guards said, no, you're not taking no tank on this campus. Um so that was uh an experience. After that, they closed the school down. They sent my mom and daddy a um a letter, no, a telegram, saying 50 students that we don't want to come back on campus. And this was my senior year. They said we don't want to come back on campus. And uh, wow, that's what are we gonna do? Well, you were one of those 50. I was one of the 50, yeah. Um, I think you all did Fred Gray, who was an attorney, and I think he uh he was a judge Johnson, federal judge in Montgomery. He went to him and said, you know, you cannot just tell them they can't, you gotta have due process. I guess that's the 14th Amendment or something, due process. And so they had uh to have hearings for the students that they had told not to come back. And during my hearing, I don't know, I think I had been drinking beer or something. I probably had my head laying down and uh while they were deciding what they were gonna do with me. And uh one of the coaches got up and spoke and said that uh I didn't even know they said George's gonna be drafted, he's gonna be going to to the NFL and he's gonna be sending money back to the school. But I think the the caveat for me was I was friends with the dean of the agricultural school, son, and he was right in the middle of it, you know, with us. So I guess I got drug in there too with him because they let, I think it was ten of us that were able to stay. But it was because of that injunction. So just to give you a you know, just a history of who I am and why I've I'm um yeah you know, talk freely and by my own person. And so I have to do this now. This is this hasn't always been me, but my spiritual life has really changed, and and that's what drives me. That's what I tell anybody I don't have to lie. Don't have to, I won't, right about anything. I may not just, like you said, I have no comment.
SPEAKER_07Well, there's no need to. I mean, listen at this stuff. I mean, I can't help but wonder, you know, given your background and that story, what do you think about the kids these days that get in athletics and and whine about NIL money and their Netflix won't buffer and all this kind of stuff?
Introducing George Irby
SPEAKER_05Well, if if you notice, that's one of the things why Saban said he got out. You say the kids just want to come to Alabama football players because they knew they were going to be seen and they could get drafted. Now, when you go to recruit them, they want to know how much money can I get, you know, and and which is a difference. And I and I guess, you know, we are products of the time. So I guess you roll with the flow. Who wouldn't want to be uh 22 years old driving the Rolls Royce and flying planes and getting private planes to fly them? You think that that's cool, but you then you see what benefits do you get, you know, what kind of person does that make you? Right. You know, and and I think that's where you you know we lose the vision. And I think that's what's I'm you know, when I did that 40 days of prayer thing, I'm working on that again, and I think that's part of it. I don't think you can just drill in somebody, you know, don't carry a gun. Like when the chief said we didn't have it in homicides. Did you have shootings? Yeah. How did you stop a homicide? How did you stop when I'm shooting from being a homicide? You know, that that that's that's kind of off the subject, but it's things like that. You don't stop it, it has to come from the individual.
SPEAKER_06Right.
Football Dreams, Draft Day, And Era Context
SPEAKER_05You got to be committed to want to do what's right. You got to be committed to say, I'm gonna work for what I'm gonna get. You know, used to be you could leave your wallet on your front porch in a chair, and you go in the house and you come back, it's still there. You know, you can't leave anything, anything somebody don't want, they might pick it up just because it's it's what uh character, now I hear people saying it stars at at home. We've been saying that for 30, 40 years, and it's not. So what's the what's the other answer? And to me, it is that you have to put someone in the person that they want to strive for and know that's right. You can't make somebody do anything they don't want to do. It has to come from here. So that's that's that thing that what I was trying to do that 40 days, is that if we decide, and you have to have somebody accountable, even especially me, to say, are you doing this and doing that, that changed your mindset about, you know, it's all about respect, respecting life, um, and and and other people. That's that's and if you don't learn it at home, it has to start someplace so the schools or or the churches or just individuals, you know, because it's not happening at home. You know, tell you this story, and then we get back to it. The primitive guy said he went to uh this kid's house to tell his daddy about they didn't want him to wear an earring to school. And uh say when they knocked on the door, daddy came with an earring. And you see it. And he said, uh, I'm just coming by, you know, thought I'd visit some of the parents of the students just to let you know who I am.
SPEAKER_06That message wasn't gonna get very violent.
SPEAKER_05A lot of the stuff is happening at home, so it's not gonna happen. I guess society has to do something. What it is, I don't know.
SPEAKER_06Well, I I want to back up just you know, where do where that comes from from for you growing up in Columbus and kind of the experiences that you had and how that scaffolding was built in your own character.
SPEAKER_05Well, when you said come and talk about my dad, and I said yes, because I I I I know that story. I know what's in me and why. My mom and daddy used to uh take kids off the street, take people and bring them in our house that I would, you know, and give them a bath, feed them. And I I couldn't tell you how many people I see that my daddy helped that was on the base, or he got him a job, or he did this, or he helped them some kind of way. And I guess seeing that, and they about to say my daddy, but actually it was my mama behind my dad, you know, keeping him straight. And and I was talking to somebody the other day, and they said, Well, it's this morning, Glenn Miller. And he was saying, he was talking about my dad, and he said, he was just like any many uh man, he said, but uh your dad had integrity, and I'm not saying he didn't do this, and I'm saying he wasn't a saint. I'm saying that first of all, but he was uh a good man and and he cared about people, and I think that's what drives me. I did go, I went to jail in my senior year.
SPEAKER_06In high school? In high school. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Walking from Southside back to north side. It was on a Friday. The reason I know it had a football game that night, and way before you all were born, they policemen used to sit on the steps with the firemen right at City Hall, because the fire station was right behind them. And this friend of mine, uh, Tommy Proud, uh, who used to be on the school board. Tommy and I, he had walked his girlfriend home now and I walked mine, which was this Vivian's mom, I'm Vivica's mama, walking back uh home. And they stopped us right where the used to be the gas company. It is the uh was uh Joe Mack's office, you know, in that corner. I don't know what's that now. I think the county bought it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, the county bought it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um stopped us and said, get in the car. And we said, for what? And he said, we said, get, and if it was a police and a fireman, not just a policeman that that, you know, so a fireman coming to arrest us too. So they said, get in the car. So we get in the car, and they said, you all push that white woman off the street. What white woman? So they took us down, took us to the jail, took them, put them downstairs, put me upstairs. And nobody knew where I was. I could hear the bands playing down at Lee Half of the football game that night, you know. But I got out about two o'clock. Um, my daddy called some people, they got me out. Tommy Proof stayed that night, and he said that's the scariest night he ever had because they were gathered around. He could, he was down in the basement. Say, we'll get him tonight. We're gonna take care of him. He said he was nervous, and and I never went through all that. I didn't have to go to court or anything. He did have a court case. He had to hire a lawyer, Dudley Carter's daddy, I think it was. But he um there was no victim, there was no witnesses, it wasn't anything.
SPEAKER_06Is there a word against y'all?
SPEAKER_05But they, I'm gonna say I didn't have a I didn't have to go to court.
SPEAKER_06Right.
Civil Rights, Tuskegee, And Personal Risk
SPEAKER_05But I I had to experience that, and I guess basically because of some people that my daddy knew, I was clear. But we were together, but they kept him and he had to go to court. But then I think the the school turned out at the court, but they didn't have a they didn't have a witness, they didn't have anything. So basically you were just convicted of walking while black. Uh in their in their minds, it's like I say there was a fireman and a policeman. That just was the culture, I guess, at at that time that they were, you know, where they reacted, or powers they thought they had. But you but those kind of things also helped to mold me to say that, you know, about injustice. So that's that's my whole thing. Uh you say right or wrong or injustice. I I can't I can't more so now, but to see any injustice to it, I don't care who it is being mistreated, I don't I can't do that. Um and just watch it.
SPEAKER_06I've I've heard some people say, you know, that have kind of talked about the value of remembering that past and and whether there is value in remembering that. It sounds like it's very valuable to remember for you. How how valuable are are those types of lessons and those types of stories to for everybody to remember for society's sake?
SPEAKER_05I don't know, I don't know how you if you classify it as value, but uh I understand that you can't lump everybody with with in the same sentence. You can't say all white or all black people do this, all white people do this. It's it's it's individuals, right? And my thing right now in my life is peace and harmony and and truth, period. Black, white.
SPEAKER_06Well, um you uh go to Hunt High, your um y'all win a didn't y'all win a state football championship when you were there?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but I have to tell I told Robert Smith because he went to Lehigh and they won a championship, but I think they had a tie. And I told them we won all of our games. They may be in co-champs with Tupelo or somebody. And I said that that was the difference, yeah. But another story like that, you know, the band and football teams uh was a little different, but the band, they usually get the hand me down from Lehigh. You know, whatever uniform that that they had, they they would send them down in, you know, and that was part of that that culture too, you know. So I've gone through uh several eras, that era of of of of segregation here in Columbus. Um but um there was this guy, and I remember, I don't know how I was I was young, this guy named Rachel, and this kid I played with, and we went to Lee Home and I had pictures sitting on those lines or whatever. Well, I understand he became an admiral, right? Um and I I I can't don't know any of his people now, my mama's gone, I can't find out. But I would just love to just find out who he was, just to have a conversation with him. I know he doesn't remember because I I I vaguely remember it, you know. But I think my experiences, um everybody have different experiences. You all probably had had different experiences in life. But mine, where I am right now, I have to blend those things and say it's not like that now. And going forward, what do we do? And that is you have to just treat people like you want to be treated.
SPEAKER_06Amen. Yeah. I w I want to talk about your journey, a little bit about your journey through the NFL, uh the time that you were there, but getting hurt, and then and then coming back here and what all of that was like for you, and then what it was like here when you returned.
Injustice, Character, And Community Responsibility
SPEAKER_05Well, I went to New York. Um that was in '69, in '69 draft when again pre days you all year that the the Jets won the uh Super Bowl when Joe Neymar made the promise that we're gonna win. Big deal. Um so I was up there during that era, and it was um, like I said, just a great time. But when you go in those dressing rooms with Fran Tarquitton, um, I'm trying to think of the guy that um played for the Giants. He was a CBS commentator all the time and kind of cooled. Frank Gifford. That's his name. Yeah, he would travel with us, and you all wouldn't know him, but he was a great interviewer. And he was on on uh Monday night, one of the first announcements on Monday Night Football uh came to camp. Talking about Cosell? Yeah, Howard Cosell. Okay. And everybody was scared to talk to him, you know, because he'll ask you some uh like why you don't like your mama or something like that, you know, something crazy. And this guy that kind of took me under his wings, um, he went in and talked to Howard. You know, it I guess my point, even with drugs, people talk about drugs. When the first game we played in Green Bay, the guy that I'm talking about, Homer Jones, who's the only person that at back then that was faster than um Bob Hayes. I don't know if you some of these names I know they're Greek to you, but Bob Hayes, no, he played with the Cowboys and he ran that in the 1960 Olympics. He ran the fastest leg of that um 4x500, whatever that is, and the 100 yard dash or the 100 meters, what they call them now. But um so Homer Jones told me, he said, You seen the trainer? I said, uh for what? He said to get your medicine. They were giving out beans and pills then, you know. Uh and I'm telling what you know, what is that? That's like a Z Z top concert. This is the truth. I took it right and I got hit on a play. I think we played on a Friday or Saturday night and I didn't know it until Tuesday when I was hurt. I'm serious because I guess so pills and stuff I had been taking. So that you know, I I've got um my orders to go to get uh my physical when I was in New York. And the owner um called me and told me, say you got this letter. He said, you can go to the um um take your physical, you have to do that. But do you want to go to Vietnam? I said, no, sir, I don't want to go to all the other times, you know, you had um deferments when you were in school, and then you could take a test and you in that higher percentile, you wouldn't you wouldn't have to go. So, but once all that was over, uh uh it was you got to go to the military. And he said, Do you want to go? I said, No, I don't want to go to no no war. Now I think maybe that would have been a good thing for me. But those kind of experiences, you know, getting to know people and to travel and and fly uh to the hotels where you go. But my point was going to be that when you go in the locker room, those guys are just like you and I, you know, they're they're human, but they're human. They they they sit on the back then in Yankee Stadium, but you know, we had some practice at Yankee Stadium, it was open. You know, the commoditi opened right there in the locker room, so you go and sit down, you know, everybody looking at you. And there's, you know, everybody's the same, you know, bleeding the same. And you you get to to realize once you experience that, you learn that everybody, they just they just human, just like anyone else. I left the team in December because my son was going to be born. When I got, cools came to me one of me when they first came to to uh Mississippi and came to Columbus. Well, when they came east of the Mississippi, they came to me, Bobby Carwell, they had to have the NWCP was was uh on cools for not hiring blacks. And um so they had to have that in marketing. They had to have a black. So they came to me and said um they had to have three things. They had to have an attorney, they had to have a prominent family in in Columbus or in Mississippi to get the federal license, and they had to have a black in marketing. They got Hunter Ghost to be the lawyer, they got his brother-in-law to be uh the family, Freddie Jones. They got Freddie to be the family to get the license, and then I was the black. And they say, what would it take? I said, all of my money in an escrow account for me before I before I started anything. I wasn't gonna take anybody's word for anything. And I'm saying that's the lesson I learned. So I I learned some life lessons, ended up coming back to Columbus. And um I came back to Columbus in 76, and it's probably the best thing that happened to me because I had seen a lot of the world. Right. And Columbus, Mississippi, to me, you can you can go anywhere in the world. They got, I was on the board at the airport, I think they had a commercial. You can go anywhere in the world from GTR. Even if you fly to Birmingham, you can get access and get anywhere else in the world in a short period of time. It's not a lot of hassle. But I I I I love Columbus.
SPEAKER_06I I know that you said you got to go, but there's one more thing I wanted to ask you about that the you know the the the fund and the and the the nonprofit that's in your dad's name that you kind of keep going. Talk about how that kind of all came about and how much that means to you to do it every year.
NFL Locker Rooms, Culture, And Life Lessons
SPEAKER_05In the last couple of years, uh it it always means something to me because uh of the connection with the with the airbase and the people that my daddy got to know. I I love this town, and I got people working with me on it, and I've been the biggest portion of the money that comes in comes from people that had been on the base. You know that Sonic Johnson, uh, he knows them all. He was in protocol, so he gets in touch with them. And to see that and to see people talk about my daddy, when I think about it, and always bring tears to my eyes when I, you know, anytime I talk about my dad, but but that's why I I do it. But, you know, we used to honor God to take fruit baskets, right, during the Christmas. And if you see, and they these guys come from from around the country, and they haven't been in Mississippi, they haven't been to somebody's house that uh you don't go to the front door, you go to the carport door, and I have to say, no, you go around to that door to take the basket. And it's one old lady, she dies, but she would be the first one that we would go to every year. And she would hug and kiss them and and and show them just so much love. And with them giving her that, to see them, they got to fight and want to go to take baskets. You know, I tell them to alternate. And and those experiences, you know, you see those kids that get involved with helping somebody and seeing things that they didn't, that they wouldn't have seen, and the and the expression on their faces. It just makes, you know, I that's what drives me. Half the things you said we were going to talk about then we just talked about a bunch of stuff that's all right. But uh, you know, I I'm enjoying just reflecting now here with you all and and probably could do this forever.
SPEAKER_06We really appreciate you coming on the show and talking to us. We really enjoyed the stories growing up.
SPEAKER_05But don't call them to it lies. I just everything I said was a lie.
SPEAKER_06I thought you said you didn't lie. I thought you said you didn't have to lie.
SPEAKER_05That was a lie. No, I just for coming in.
SPEAKER_07I enjoyed it. I I gotta tell you, listening to him, that was just um that was so impactful. I I've heard stories like it, but but they're always different, depending on who tells the stories. Um I'm glad that he was able to pass on that information for these microphones to pick up on and just carry those memories forward.
SPEAKER_06Well, what what I like about George, and I've I've known him the whole time I've been working at the dispatch that's going on ten years, um, is just the ease with which he'll just, you know, he just he just speaks the truth, man. He just tells us stories. That's right. I was drunk that night. Yeah. I mean, it was what it was. And I've always appreciated George in every context for being exactly how he was today. Yeah, for sure. Well, Zach, what are three things I need to know? All right. Number one, Joseph Daughtry is staying put in Columbus for now. Though he was a finalist for the Jackson Police Department chief job, Jackson announced last week that Rashaw M. Brackney will be that city's next chief of police.
SPEAKER_07Okay. I just want to say one thing about that. Uh he had mentioned that he was not interested in a what did he use, a parallel move or a lateral move? Lateral move. Okay. Going to Jackson is a downhill move. The money may be better. Well, the city's bigger. Well.
SPEAKER_06There's only one capital city in Mississippi, David. That's what he said.
SPEAKER_07I'd rather be here. All right. Next thing.
SPEAKER_06All right. Number two. Ollie's bargain outlet is coming to Columbus. It will open in the old bargain hunt on Highway 45 this spring, selling closeout merchandise and excess inventory. It's like And my wife can't wait. I mean. And my bank account can wait.
SPEAKER_07Number three.
SPEAKER_06All right. If you want to drive to Startville this weekend, the 19th Rotary Rodeo Classic is set for Friday and Saturday at Mississippi State Horse Park. The Startville Club uses the High Talent Rodeo each year as its primary fundraiser, hoping to bring in$50,000 this year to support grants and service projects.
SPEAKER_07Sweet, sweet deal. Thanks to all of you for joining us today. Also, thanks to Lowndes Farm Supply for being our new sponsor. Find that one friend of yours that needs to know what's happening here locally so they can listen in, and together we can make our hometown a better place. Tips at cdispatch.com, reach out to us. You can also follow me on Facebook or X at D Chisholm Double Zero. Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio in historic downtown Columbus. You've been listening to Zach and David. Y'all stay friendly. I'm just a simple old country boy, but um I think that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.
SPEAKER_07You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David. That's what old people do.
SPEAKER_04That is.
